13:57:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/07-ldp-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/07-ldp-irc ←
13:57:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
13:57:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP ←
13:57:46 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes ←
13:57:47 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:57:47 <trackbot> Date: 07 October 2013
13:59:46 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started ←
13:59:48 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
14:00:17 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-mobile
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, please dial ericP-mobile ←
14:00:17 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ericP; the call is being made ←
14:00:19 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
14:00:45 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: +JohnArwe ←
14:00:45 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: -JohnArwe ←
14:00:45 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: +JohnArwe ←
14:01:17 <JohnArwe> zakim, who's here?
John Arwe: zakim, who's here? ←
14:01:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, EricP, JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, EricP, JohnArwe ←
14:01:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see betehess_, JohnArwe, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, davidwood, bhyland, TallTed, betehess, jmvanel, deiu, Arnaud, Yves, thschee, trackbot, sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see betehess_, JohnArwe, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, davidwood, bhyland, TallTed, betehess, jmvanel, deiu, Arnaud, Yves, thschee, trackbot, sandro, ericP ←
14:01:20 <Zakim> +EricM
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricM ←
14:02:18 <betehess_> Zakim, EricM is Alexandre
Alexandre Bertails: Zakim, EricM is Alexandre ←
14:02:18 <Zakim> +Alexandre; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Alexandre; got it ←
14:04:14 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:05:09 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra ←
14:05:19 <Arnaud> zakim, IPcaller is roger
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, IPcaller is roger ←
14:05:19 <Zakim> +roger; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +roger; got it ←
14:05:47 <Zakim> +bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish ←
14:06:48 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
14:06:54 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
14:06:54 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it ←
14:06:55 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:06:55 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
14:07:20 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:07:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, EricP, JohnArwe, Alexandre, roger, Ashok_Malhotra, bblfish, TallTed (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, EricP, JohnArwe, Alexandre, roger, Ashok_Malhotra, bblfish, TallTed (muted) ←
14:07:55 <Zakim> +??P25
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25 ←
14:08:14 <Zakim> +??P24
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24 ←
14:08:25 <bblfish> hi
Henry Story: hi ←
14:08:27 <Arnaud> zakim, P25 is pchampin
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, P25 is pchampin ←
14:08:27 <Zakim> sorry, Arnaud, I do not recognize a party named 'P25'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Arnaud, I do not recognize a party named 'P25' ←
14:08:38 <TallTed> zakim, ??P25 is pchampin
Ted Thibodeau: zakim, ??P25 is pchampin ←
14:08:38 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it ←
14:08:39 <krp> zakim, ??P24 is me
Kevin Page: zakim, ??P24 is me ←
14:08:39 <Arnaud> zakim, ??P25 is pchampin
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, ??P25 is pchampin ←
14:08:40 <Zakim> +krp; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +krp; got it ←
14:08:40 <Zakim> I already had ??P25 as pchampin, Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P25 as pchampin, Arnaud ←
14:09:44 <pchampin> scribe: pchampin
(Scribe set to Pierre-Antoine Champin)
<pchampin> chair: Arnaud
<pchampin> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.10.07
14:09:52 <pchampin> topic: Administrative
14:10:09 <pchampin> PROPOSED: approve minutes from 2013-09-30
PROPOSED: approve minutes from 2013-09-30 ←
14:09:51 <Arnaud> http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2013-09-30
Arnaud Le Hors: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2013-09-30 ←
14:10:10 <ericP> second approving last week's minutes
Eric Prud'hommeaux: second approving last week's minutes ←
14:10:10 <bblfish> I looked at them, but don't know if they reflect what was said
Henry Story: I looked at them, but don't know if they reflect what was said ←
14:10:26 <pchampin> RESOLVED: approve minutes from 2013-09-30
RESOLVED: approve minutes from 2013-09-30 ←
<pchampin> Arnaud: next meeting is october 14, same time, same place
Arnaud Le Hors: next meeting is october 14, same time, same place ←
14:10:45 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:10:45 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted ←
14:10:46 <pchampin> arnaud: next meeting will be next week, same time
Arnaud Le Hors: next meeting will be next week, same time ←
14:10:51 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:10:51 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
14:10:54 <pchampin> topic: Tracking of open actions and issues
14:11:17 <pchampin> arnaud: anyone claiming victory?
Arnaud Le Hors: anyone claiming victory? ←
14:12:25 <bblfish> action-47?
14:12:25 <trackbot> action-47 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to Review the Use Cases section of the document -- due 2013-03-21 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-47 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to Review the Use Cases section of the document -- due 2013-03-21 -- OPEN ←
14:12:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/47
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/47 ←
14:12:53 <pchampin> arnaud: Erik was supposed to review the UC a long time ago
Arnaud Le Hors: Erik was supposed to review the UC a long time ago ←
14:13:07 <pchampin> ... it has been reviewed by other in the meantime; can close it
... it has been reviewed by other in the meantime; can close it ←
14:13:19 <Arnaud> s/erik/eric/
Arnaud Le Hors: s/erik/eric/ (warning: replacement failed) ←
14:13:25 <pchampin> close action-47
14:13:25 <trackbot> Closed action-47.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-47. ←
14:13:29 <Arnaud> regrets: bart, steves, stevebattl, sandro
14:14:57 <pchampin> arnaud: I tried to make it clear in the agenda what would be discussed, and the decisions that would be made
Arnaud Le Hors: I tried to make it clear in the agenda what would be discussed, and the decisions that would be made ←
<pchampin> topic: Publication of Use Cases & Requirements document
14:15:32 <pchampin> ... Steve Battle has updated the UC&R with comments.
... Steve Battle has updated the UC&R with comments. ←
14:15:57 <sandro> (I did send that. in meeting another meeting.)
Sandro Hawke: (I did send that. in meeting another meeting.) ←
14:16:27 <Arnaud> Proposal: Publish the latest editor's draft of the Use Cases & Requirements
PROPOSED: Publish the latest editor's draft of the Use Cases & Requirements ←
14:16:34 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
14:16:35 <TallTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
14:16:37 <roger> +1
Roger Menday: +1 ←
14:16:38 <pchampin> +1
+1 ←
14:16:38 <krp> +1
Kevin Page: +1 ←
14:16:40 <betehess_> +1
Alexandre Bertails: +1 ←
14:16:40 <JohnArwe> +1
14:16:54 <pchampin> RESOLVED: Publish the latest editor's draft of the Use Cases & Requirements
RESOLVED: Publish the latest editor's draft of the Use Cases & Requirements ←
14:17:14 <pchampin> topic: Proposal: change 5.3.5 SHOULD to MUST
14:17:36 <bblfish> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Oct/0004.html
Henry Story: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Oct/0004.html ←
14:18:06 <pchampin> arnaud: it is an important change, as it impacts all implementations
Arnaud Le Hors: it is an important change, as it impacts all implementations ←
14:18:22 <pchampin> ... but there seem to be consensus that we should make this change
... but there seem to be consensus that we should make this change ←
14:18:30 <Arnaud> Proposal: change 5.3.5 SHOULD to MUST per John's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Oct/0004.html
PROPOSED: change 5.3.5 SHOULD to MUST per John's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Oct/0004.html ←
14:18:31 <JohnArwe> MOI calls them vanilla/chocolate? WG came up with that.
John Arwe: MOI calls them vanilla/chocolate? WG came up with that. ←
14:18:46 <JohnArwe> +1
14:18:47 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
14:18:49 <krp> +1
Kevin Page: +1 ←
14:18:49 <Ashok> +1
Ashok Malhotra: +1 ←
14:18:52 <TallTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
14:18:54 <betehess> +1
Alexandre Bertails: +1 ←
14:18:56 <roger> +1
Roger Menday: +1 ←
14:19:10 <JohnArwe> I think Steve S would also agree with it, FWIW, since he originally suggested it to me.
John Arwe: I think Steve S would also agree with it, FWIW, since he originally suggested it to me. ←
14:19:10 <Arnaud> Resolved: change 5.3.5 SHOULD to MUST per John's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Oct/0004.html
RESOLVED: change 5.3.5 SHOULD to MUST per John's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Oct/0004.html ←
14:19:31 <bblfish> 5.3.5 -> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp.html#ldpc-HTTP_PUT
Henry Story: 5.3.5 -> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp.html#ldpc-HTTP_PUT ←
14:19:32 <pchampin> topic: Proposal: changes to 5.6.2 (container delete)
14:19:43 <pchampin> arnaud: this is in relation with a comment from Mark Baker
Arnaud Le Hors: this is in relation with a comment from Mark Baker ←
14:20:01 <pchampin> ... about us redefining HTTP
... about us redefining HTTP ←
14:20:18 <bblfish> this is the article: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Oct/0006.html
Henry Story: this is the article: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Oct/0006.html ←
14:20:32 <Arnaud> Proposal: changes to 5.6.2 (container delete) per John's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Oct/0006.html
PROPOSED: changes to 5.6.2 (container delete) per John's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Oct/0006.html ←
14:20:43 <pchampin> ... not that we are contradicting it, but merely being redundant
... not that we are contradicting it, but merely being redundant ←
14:20:55 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
14:20:55 <JohnArwe> +1
14:20:56 <betehess> +1
Alexandre Bertails: +1 ←
14:21:20 <TallTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
14:21:25 <krp> +1
Kevin Page: +1 ←
14:21:27 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
14:21:34 <bblfish> +1
Henry Story: +1 ←
14:21:47 <Ashok> +1
Ashok Malhotra: +1 ←
14:21:53 <pchampin> +1
+1 ←
14:22:05 <Arnaud> Resolved: changes to 5.6.2 (container delete) per John's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Oct/0006.html
RESOLVED: changes to 5.6.2 (container delete) per John's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Oct/0006.html ←
14:23:27 <pchampin> arnaud: the next points in the agenda are more controversial
Arnaud Le Hors: the next points in the agenda are more controversial ←
14:23:36 <pchampin> ... anyone wanting to push one of them forward?
... anyone wanting to push one of them forward? ←
14:24:04 <Arnaud> topic: Discuss Proposal: Change following to informative (re: redefining HTTP)
14:24:42 <Arnaud> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Sep/0052.html
Arnaud Le Hors: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Sep/0052.html ←
14:24:44 <pchampin> john: this is still related to Mark Baker's remark
John Arwe: this is still related to Mark Baker's remark ←
14:25:13 <pchampin> ... out intend was not to redefine HTTP, but informatively restate information from other specs
... our intent was not to redefine HTTP, but informatively restate information from other specs ←
14:25:37 <pchampin> s/out intend/our intent/
14:26:29 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:26:29 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted ←
14:26:54 <pchampin> tallted: we will need a restatement of the proposed change, after the discussions in the mailing list
Ted Thibodeau: we will need a restatement of the proposed change, after the discussions in the mailing list ←
14:27:24 <pchampin> john: I did a mockup of the new sections in the respec draft
John Arwe: I did a mockup of the new sections in the respec draft ←
14:27:34 <JohnArwe> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp.html#base-specs
John Arwe: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp.html#base-specs ←
14:27:43 <JohnArwe> that's a mockup in the editor's draft
John Arwe: that's a mockup in the editor's draft ←
14:28:33 <bblfish> did you post the correct URL?
Henry Story: did you post the correct URL? ←
14:29:48 <JohnArwe> bblfish: I pulled it from a live browser henry
Henry Story: I pulled it from a live browser henry [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ] ←
14:30:16 <pchampin> tallted: having it in the mailing list archive (not in a mutable draft) would be better to track our decision
Ted Thibodeau: having it in the mailing list archive (not in a mutable draft) would be better to track our decision ←
14:30:38 <pchampin> arnaud: I agree; can you send such an e-mail, so that we can vote on it next week?
Arnaud Le Hors: I agree; can you send such an e-mail, so that we can vote on it next week? ←
14:30:53 <pchampin> john: I can paste it in the IRC right now
John Arwe: I can paste it in the IRC right now ←
14:31:34 <pchampin> eric: it might be too big, you would get kicked off; better send a mail and copy the URL right afterwards
Eric Prud'hommeaux: it might be too big, you would get kicked off; better send a mail and copy the URL right afterwards ←
14:31:50 <pchampin> arnaud: in the meantime, let's move to another topic
Arnaud Le Hors: in the meantime, let's move to another topic ←
14:32:34 <Arnaud> topic: Discuss Proposals for PUT ignoring triples ACTION-93
14:32:44 <Arnaud> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Sep/0051.html
Arnaud Le Hors: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Sep/0051.html ←
14:33:22 <bblfish> is that the one or not?
Henry Story: is that the one or not? ←
14:34:14 <bblfish> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Sep/0051.html
Henry Story: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Sep/0051.html ←
14:35:00 <bblfish> q+ is there a list of server managed properties somewhere?
Henry Story: q+ is there a list of server managed properties somewhere? ←
14:35:28 <JohnArwe> @bblfish: no list; implementation-defined
John Arwe: @bblfish: no list; implementation-defined ←
14:36:15 <JohnArwe> ...IIRC our running assumption was that future work like rdf-val would provide a way for clients to introspect them at run time
John Arwe: ...IIRC our running assumption was that future work like rdf-val would provide a way for clients to introspect them at run time ←
14:36:24 <bblfish> Is there a way to tell what the implementation-defined list is automatically?
Henry Story: Is there a way to tell what the implementation-defined list is automatically? ←
14:36:46 <JohnArwe> @bblfish: no
14:36:54 <JohnArwe> ...at least not in LDP, not today
John Arwe: ...at least not in LDP, not today ←
14:36:57 <pchampin> arnaud: this relates to TimBL's concern about the current spec allowing the server to silently ignore some of the PUT triples
Arnaud Le Hors: this relates to TimBL's concern about the current spec allowing the server to silently ignore some of the PUT triples ←
14:38:59 <pchampin> eric: shouldn't it happen for all operations altering triples (POST, PUT, PATCH) that they return an error if triples will be dropped?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: shouldn't it happen for all operations altering triples (POST, PUT, PATCH) that they return an error if triples will be dropped? ←
14:39:01 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
14:39:35 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
14:39:44 <pchampin> john: that's what Steve's distinction between "server managed properties" and "unknown properties" is about.
John Arwe: that's what Steve's distinction between "server managed properties" and "unknown properties" is about. ←
14:40:18 <pchampin> ... which is a problem because we give the client no way to tell the difference
... which is a problem because we give the client no way to tell the difference ←
14:42:15 <pchampin> arnaud: the problem seems to be the unclear boundary between the protocol and the data
Arnaud Le Hors: the problem seems to be the unclear boundary between the protocol and the data ←
14:42:28 <bblfish> bblfish: There is way for a client to know what the "server defined server managed properties are". So the proposal currently makes no sense for the client, since it cannot distinguish a vanilla or chocolate server.
Henry Story: There is no way for a client to know what the "server defined server managed properties are". So the proposal currently makes no sense for the client, since it cannot distinguish a vanilla or chocolate server. [ Scribe Assist by Henry Story ] ←
14:42:46 <bblfish> s/is way/is no way/
14:42:48 <pchampin> ... we try to be good citizen by reusing existing vocabularies (e.g. dc:modified), but this may be a mistake
... we try to be good citizen by reusing existing vocabularies (e.g. dc:modified), but this may be a mistake ←
14:43:11 <ericP> q?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q? ←
14:43:38 <ericP> q+ ask how bad it would be if a client were simply given an error if it sent triples that would be rejected
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ ask how bad it would be if a client were simply given an error if it sent triples that would be rejected ←
14:43:43 <ericP> q+ to ask how bad it would be if a client were simply given an error if it sent triples that would be rejected
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to ask how bad it would be if a client were simply given an error if it sent triples that would be rejected ←
14:43:48 <pchampin> ... we have neither a pre-defined list of server-managed properties, nor a mean for the server to dynamically expose such a list
... we have neither a pre-defined list of server-managed properties, nor a mean for the server to dynamically expose such a list ←
14:44:22 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
14:44:28 <JohnArwe> @ericp: doing so means a typical "patch via put" set of interactions, i.e. GET+ change + PUT, fails
John Arwe: @ericp: doing so means a typical "patch via put" set of interactions, i.e. GET+ change + PUT, fails ←
14:44:28 <Arnaud> ack ericP
Arnaud Le Hors: ack ericP ←
14:44:28 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask how bad it would be if a client were simply given an error if it sent triples that would be rejected
Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to ask how bad it would be if a client were simply given an error if it sent triples that would be rejected ←
14:45:16 <pchampin> eric: how bad would it be to say that the server issues an error whenever it drops triples?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: how bad would it be to say that the server issues an error whenever it drops triples? ←
14:45:45 <betehess> I agree with ericP's view: reject with an error when some triples cannot be accepted
Alexandre Bertails: I agree with ericP's view: reject with an error when some triples cannot be accepted ←
14:46:29 <bblfish> q-
Henry Story: q- ←
14:46:51 <pchampin> john: a problem is that PATCH would fail whenever you don't change the server-managed properties that would automatically change
John Arwe: a problem is that PATCH would fail whenever you don't change the server-managed properties that would automatically change ←
14:47:35 <pchampin> q+
q+ ←
14:47:38 <bblfish> q+
Henry Story: q+ ←
14:47:52 <ericP> JohnArwe: the prob with ericP's proposal is the GET/PUT mode of patch where the client GET's data which includes server-managed properties
John Arwe: the prob with ericP's proposal is the GET/PUT mode of patch where the client GET's data which includes server-managed properties [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ] ←
14:49:17 <betehess> well, it just means that some data is meant to be modified by the user, some data has to be managed by the application (maintained by the server), they should not belong to the same LDPR
Alexandre Bertails: well, it just means that some data is meant to be modified by the user, some data has to be managed by the application (maintained by the server), they should not belong to the same LDPR ←
14:49:20 <pchampin> bblfish: some properties are statements by the server rather than statements by the document
Henry Story: some properties are statements by the server rather than statements by the document ←
14:49:29 <ericP> q+ to say supposed the server rejects POSTs/PUTs with *unrecognized* properties.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to say supposed the server rejects POSTs/PUTs with *unrecognized* properties. ←
14:49:36 <betehess> q+
Alexandre Bertails: q+ ←
14:49:54 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
14:49:56 <pchampin> arnaud: it touches what I was saying earlier about the boundary between protocol and data
Arnaud Le Hors: it touches what I was saying earlier about the boundary between protocol and data ←
14:50:11 <Arnaud> ack pchampin
Arnaud Le Hors: ack pchampin ←
14:50:31 <ericP> pchampin: in my implementation, the client is not supposed to modify server-managed properties.
Pierre-Antoine Champin: in my implementation, the client is not supposed to modify server-managed properties. [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ] ←
14:51:16 <ericP> ... if there is no attempt to modify those properties, the server accepts and returns a 20x½
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... if there is no attempt to modify those properties, the server accepts and returns a 20x½ ←
14:51:27 <ericP> Arnaud: so that's your way of doing a PATCH
Arnaud Le Hors: so that's your way of doing a PATCH [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ] ←
14:51:46 <JohnArwe> It's not clear to me that doing what Pierre does (while logical) conforms with the normative language.
John Arwe: It's not clear to me that doing what Pierre does (while logical) conforms with the normative language. ←
14:51:51 <Arnaud> ack ericP
Arnaud Le Hors: ack ericP ←
14:51:51 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to say supposed the server rejects POSTs/PUTs with *unrecognized* properties.
Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to say supposed the server rejects POSTs/PUTs with *unrecognized* properties. ←
14:51:55 <bblfish> pchampin: how does the client know what it is not allowed to touch?
Pierre-Antoine Champin: how does the client know what it is not allowed to touch? [ Scribe Assist by Henry Story ] ←
14:52:31 <pchampin> pchampin: my solution to this problem is to disallow the client to *modify* the server-managed properties
Pierre-Antoine Champin: my solution to this problem is to disallow the client to *modify* the server-managed properties ←
14:53:07 <Arnaud> ack betehess
Arnaud Le Hors: ack betehess ←
14:53:13 <pchampin> ... *then* the server changes the values
... *then* the server changes the values ←
14:54:12 <bblfish> cool idea: put server managed properties in a meta file
Henry Story: cool idea: put server managed properties in a meta file ←
14:54:13 <pchampin> eric: but then the server has to check that the values are actually not modified
Eric Prud'hommeaux: but then the server has to check that the values are actually not modified ←
14:54:13 <bblfish> +1
Henry Story: +1 ←
14:54:34 <bblfish> meta file is linked to from the original file in a link header
Henry Story: meta file is linked to from the original file in a link header ←
14:54:55 <pchampin> betehess: in our solution, there are two kinfs of LDPR : those entirely managed by the clients, and those partly managed by the server
Alexandre Bertails: in our solution, there are two kinds of LDPR : those entirely managed by the clients, and those partly managed by the server ←
14:54:57 <Arnaud> q?
Arnaud Le Hors: q? ←
14:55:03 <pchampin> ... a header field is used to tell the difference
... a header field is used to tell the difference ←
14:55:17 <JohnArwe> informative/diffs reminder before we break
John Arwe: informative/diffs reminder before we break ←
14:55:27 <pchampin> arnaud: this was a useful discussion
Arnaud Le Hors: this was a useful discussion ←
14:55:48 <pchampin> ... please post yout proposals to the mailing list in response to steve's message
... please post yout proposals to the mailing list in response to steve's message ←
14:55:58 <pchampin> ... so that we can look at them and think about them
... so that we can look at them and think about them ←
14:56:17 <betehess> s/kinfs/kinds/
14:56:37 <JohnArwe> link to diffs: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/rev/eeff2a51723d
John Arwe: link to diffs: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/rev/eeff2a51723d ←
14:56:56 <Zakim> -bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish ←
14:56:58 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:56:58 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
14:57:11 <pchampin> topic: Discuss Proposal: Change following to informative (re: redefining HTTP) again
14:57:31 <JohnArwe> link to diffs: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/rev/eeff2a51723d
John Arwe: link to diffs: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/rev/eeff2a51723d ←
14:59:47 <pchampin> arnaud: it is almost the end of the hour
Arnaud Le Hors: it is almost the end of the hour ←
15:00:03 <pchampin> ... do we have the time for a quick vote? or do you need more time?
... do we have the time for a quick vote? or do you need more time? ←
15:00:37 <Zakim> -roger
Zakim IRC Bot: -roger ←
15:00:51 <pchampin> ... I'll put it on the agenda for next week, then.
... I'll put it on the agenda for next week, then. ←
15:00:52 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: -JohnArwe ←
15:00:59 <pchampin> ADJOURNED
ADJOURNED ←
15:01:01 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra ←
15:01:09 <Zakim> -Alexandre
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alexandre ←
15:01:10 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
15:01:12 <Zakim> -TallTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed ←
15:01:33 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
15:01:40 <Arnaud> trackbot, end meeting
Arnaud Le Hors: trackbot, end meeting ←
15:01:40 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
15:01:40 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Arnaud, EricP, JohnArwe, Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, roger, bblfish, TallTed, pchampin, krp
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Arnaud, EricP, JohnArwe, Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, roger, bblfish, TallTed, pchampin, krp ←
15:01:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
15:01:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/07-ldp-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/07-ldp-minutes.html trackbot ←
15:01:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
15:01:49 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
15:01:49 <Zakim> -krp
Zakim IRC Bot: -krp ←
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