edit

Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 13 May 2013

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.05.13
Seen
Arnaud Le Hors, Ashok Malhotra, Cody Burleson, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Henry Story, John Arwe, Kalpa Gunaratna, Kevin Page, Nandana Mihindukulasooriya, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Raúl García Castro, Roger Menday, Sandro Hawke, Serena Villata, Steve Speicher, Ted Thibodeau
Regrets
Arnaud Le Hors
Chair
Steve Speicher
Scribe
Ashok Malhotra
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Minutes of May 6 approved without objection link
  2. Open ISSUE-63 link
  3. Open ISSUE-69 link
Topics
13:55:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/13-ldp-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/13-ldp-irc

13:55:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public

13:55:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP

13:55:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

13:55:25 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:55:25 <trackbot> Date: 13 May 2013
13:57:38 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started

13:57:45 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM]

13:57:52 <SteveS> Zakim, [IBM] is me

Steve Speicher: Zakim, [IBM] is me

13:57:52 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveS; got it

13:57:58 <SteveS> Chair: SteveS
13:58:03 <SteveS> Regrets: Arnaud
<steves> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.05.13
13:59:40 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:59:50 <cody> Zakim, IPcaller is me

Cody Burleson: Zakim, IPcaller is me

13:59:50 <Zakim> +cody; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cody; got it

14:00:12 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[OpenLink]

14:00:26 <TallTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me

14:00:26 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it

14:00:28 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

14:00:28 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

14:00:33 <TallTed> Zakim, who's here?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here?

14:00:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see SteveS, cody, TallTed (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see SteveS, cody, TallTed (muted)

14:00:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see cody, JohnArwe, svillata, Ashok, Zakim, RRSAgent, bhyland, TallTed, SteveS, oberger, jmvanel, betehess, cygri, Yves, sandro, trackbot, ericP, thschee

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see cody, JohnArwe, svillata, Ashok, Zakim, RRSAgent, bhyland, TallTed, SteveS, oberger, jmvanel, betehess, cygri, Yves, sandro, trackbot, ericP, thschee

14:00:49 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra

14:00:51 <Zakim> +??P7

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7

14:01:12 <svillata> Zakim, ??P7 is me

Serena Villata: Zakim, ??P7 is me

14:01:13 <Zakim> +svillata; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +svillata; got it

14:01:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:01:38 <ericP> SteveS, i'll be 30 mins late. will you still be talking about tests then?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: SteveS, i'll be 30 mins late. will you still be talking about tests then?

14:02:02 <SteveS> ericP, maybe…I could shuffle the order to make sure it comes in 29+ minutes

Steve Speicher: ericP, maybe…I could shuffle the order to make sure it comes in 29+ minutes

14:02:07 <Zakim> +JohnArwe

Zakim IRC Bot: +JohnArwe

14:02:16 <Zakim> +??P14

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14

14:02:26 <rgarcia> zakim, ??P14 is me

Raúl García Castro: zakim, ??P14 is me

14:02:26 <Zakim> +rgarcia; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +rgarcia; got it

14:02:31 <SteveS> Zakim, who's here?

Steve Speicher: Zakim, who's here?

14:02:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see SteveS, cody, TallTed (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, svillata, [IPcaller], JohnArwe, rgarcia

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see SteveS, cody, TallTed (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, svillata, [IPcaller], JohnArwe, rgarcia

14:02:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see nmihindu, rgarcia, roger, cody, JohnArwe, svillata, Ashok, Zakim, RRSAgent, bhyland, TallTed, SteveS, oberger, jmvanel, betehess, cygri, Yves, sandro, trackbot, ericP,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see nmihindu, rgarcia, roger, cody, JohnArwe, svillata, Ashok, Zakim, RRSAgent, bhyland, TallTed, SteveS, oberger, jmvanel, betehess, cygri, Yves, sandro, trackbot, ericP,

14:02:33 <Zakim> ... thschee

Zakim IRC Bot: ... thschee

14:03:34 <Zakim> +[GVoice]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[GVoice]

14:03:35 <Zakim> -[GVoice]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[GVoice]

14:03:46 <roger> zakim, i am [IPcaller]

Roger Menday: zakim, i am [IPcaller]

14:03:46 <Zakim> ok, roger, I now associate Roger with [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, roger, I now associate Roger with [IPcaller]

14:03:54 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21

14:04:25 <nmihindu> Zakim, ??P21 is me

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, ??P21 is me

14:04:25 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +nmihindu; got it

14:05:50 <Arnaud> Arnaud has changed the topic to: Linked Data Platform WG -- http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/ -- current agenda http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.05.13

Arnaud Le Hors: Arnaud has changed the topic to: Linked Data Platform WG -- http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/ -- current agenda http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.05.13

14:05:55 <Ashok> scribenick: Ashok

(Scribe set to Ashok Malhotra)

14:06:12 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

<Ashok> Topic:  Admin

1. Admin

14:06:19 <Ashok> subTopic: Minutes from May 6 telcon

1.1. Minutes from May 6 telcon

14:07:00 <SteveS> Minutes from may 6th http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2013-05-06

Steve Speicher: Minutes from may 6th http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2013-05-06

14:07:59 <Ashok> SteveS:  There was some email discussion.  I have cleaned up the minutes to reflect that.

Steve Speicher: There was some email discussion. I have cleaned up the minutes to reflect that.

14:08:14 <Ashok> Resolved: Minutes of May 6 approved without objection

RESOLVED: Minutes of May 6 approved without objection

14:08:27 <Ashok> subTopic:  Next meeting

1.2. Next meeting

14:08:37 <Ashok> Same time, same place

Same time, same place

14:08:42 <Ashok> subTopic:  F2F

1.3. F2F

14:09:00 <Ashok> 9 say they they will atend, 3 will atend remotely

9 say they they will attend, 3 will attend remotely

14:09:10 <Ashok> s/atend/attend/
14:09:38 <JohnArwe> Is May 20 a UK holiday?  I see in Canada it's Victoria Day.

John Arwe: Is May 20 a UK holiday? I see in Canada it's Victoria Day.

14:09:48 <Ashok> Topic: Tracking of Actions and Issues

2. Tracking of Actions and Issues

14:10:04 <Zakim> +bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish

14:10:51 <bblfish> hi

Henry Story: hi

14:11:04 <Ashok> SteveS:  Arnaud has split some complex into into several simpler issues

Steve Speicher: Arnaud has split some complex into into several simpler issues

<Ashok> subtopic: Actions

2.1. Actions

14:11:46 <Ashok> Action-56 ... editorial changes for Action-59

ACTION-56 ... editorial changes for ACTION-59

14:11:53 <Zakim> +??P27

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P27

14:11:56 <bblfish> action-56?

Henry Story: ACTION-56?

14:11:56 <trackbot> ACTION-56 -- Steve Speicher to [EDITOR] Remove aggregate/composite containers and leave just 1 -- due 2013-05-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-56 -- Steve Speicher to [EDITOR] Remove aggregate/composite containers and leave just 1 -- due 2013-05-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW

14:11:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/56

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/56

14:12:04 <Ashok> No objections

No objections

14:12:23 <Ashok> SteveS: There are 15 open actions, 13 are overdue

Steve Speicher: There are 15 open actions, 13 are overdue

14:14:18 <Ashok> No other progress on actions

No other progress on actions

14:14:52 <Ashok> subTopic:  Issues pending review

2.2. Issues pending review

14:14:52 <Zakim> +Kalpa

Zakim IRC Bot: +Kalpa

14:14:54 <Ashok> None

None

14:15:05 <Ashok> subTopic: Raised issues

2.3. Raised issues

14:15:17 <Ashok> SteveS:  We have 3 raised issues

Steve Speicher: We have 3 raised issues

14:15:28 <JohnArwe> zakim, issue-62?

John Arwe: zakim, ISSUE-62?

14:15:28 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, JohnArwe.

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, JohnArwe.

14:15:31 <Ashok> subsubtopic: ISSUE-62
2.3.1. ISSUE-62
14:15:31 <trackbot> ISSUE-62 -- Creating Sibling Containers -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-62 -- Creating Sibling Containers -- raised

14:15:31 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/62

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/62

14:15:33 <nmihindu> ISSUE-62?

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: ISSUE-62?

14:15:33 <trackbot> ISSUE-62 -- Creating Sibling Containers -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-62 -- Creating Sibling Containers -- raised

14:15:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/62

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/62

14:16:25 <Ashok> Roger explains issue

Roger explains issue

14:17:22 <Arnaud> ISSUE-62 needs a better name

Arnaud Le Hors: ISSUE-62 needs a better name

14:17:35 <Ashok> SteveS:  Can we change name to make intent more explicit

Steve Speicher: Can we change name to make intent more explicit

14:17:36 <Arnaud> Roger called that child containers before

Arnaud Le Hors: Roger called that child containers before

14:18:43 <Arnaud> we should at least be consistent

Arnaud Le Hors: we should at least be consistent

14:19:12 <bblfish> yes it can be edited in the interface

Henry Story: yes it can be edited in the interface

14:19:14 <SteveS> suggest naming it "Creating containers associated with LDRs"

Steve Speicher: suggest naming it "Creating containers associated with LDPRs"

14:19:30 <Ashok> Roger:  That's good!

Roger Menday: That's good!

14:19:43 <rgarcia> s/LDRs/LDPRs/
14:19:45 <Zakim> -cody

Zakim IRC Bot: -cody

14:19:52 <bblfish> Ah, ok. So the idea is you have an LDR and you want to create a container for it?

Henry Story: Ah, ok. So the idea is you have an LDR and you want to create a container for it?

14:20:40 <SteveS> idea was I have a NetWorth resource, I have no assets or assetContainer, how do I bring one into existence?

Steve Speicher: idea was I have a NetWorth resource, I have no assets or assetContainer, how do I bring one into existence?

14:20:41 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

14:20:42 <JohnArwe> yes Henry: given an LDPR, which has n containers "associated with" it, how do you add n+1st

John Arwe: yes Henry: given an LDPR, which has n containers "associated with" it, how do you add n+1st

14:21:21 <JohnArwe> ...when the LDPR is not itself necessarily an LDP*C*

John Arwe: ...when the LDPR is not itself necessarily an LDP*C*

14:21:44 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a]

14:22:28 <Ashok> bblfish:  This continues the confusion with membership predicate

Henry Story: This continues the confusion with membership predicate

14:22:51 <JohnArwe> Henry do we have an open issue already on membership predicate?

John Arwe: Henry do we have an open issue already on membership predicate?

14:23:11 <roger> yes, I can have a go at re-editing the text

Roger Menday: yes, I can have a go at re-editing the text

14:23:15 <Ashok> bblfish:  We should change the text also

Henry Story: We should change the text also

14:24:05 <svillata> q?

Serena Villata: q?

14:24:30 <Ashok> bblfish: Let's close it and raise new issue

Henry Story: Let's close it and raise new issue

14:24:35 <bblfish> ok

Henry Story: ok

14:24:40 <bblfish> sounds good

Henry Story: sounds good

14:24:49 <Ashok> Roger:  I can edit the text and we can consider it next week

Roger Menday: I can edit the text and we can consider it next week

14:24:49 <Ashok> subsubTopic: ISSUE-63
2.3.2. ISSUE-63
14:25:02 <bblfish> Issue-63?

Henry Story: ISSUE-63?

14:25:02 <trackbot> ISSUE-63 -- Need to be able to specify collation with container ordering -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-63 -- Need to be able to specify collation with container ordering -- raised

14:25:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/63

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/63

14:25:05 <Ashok> ISSUE-63

ISSUE-63

14:25:05 <trackbot> ISSUE-63 -- Need to be able to specify collation with container ordering -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-63 -- Need to be able to specify collation with container ordering -- raised

14:25:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/63

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/63

14:26:30 <TallTed> +1 open

Ted Thibodeau: +1 open

14:26:34 <Ashok> SteveS explains issue

SteveS explains issue

14:26:50 <Ashok> No objections to opening issue-63

No objections to opening ISSUE-63

<Ashok> Resolved: Open ISSUE-63

RESOLVED: Open ISSUE-63

14:26:50 <Ashok> subsubTopic: ISSUE-69
2.3.3. ISSUE-69
14:27:11 <bblfish> Issue-69

Henry Story: ISSUE-69

14:27:11 <trackbot> ISSUE-69 -- Query syntaxes for accessing the first and subsequent pages -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-69 -- Query syntaxes for accessing the first and subsequent pages -- raised

14:27:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/69

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/69

14:27:55 <Ashok> SteveS: Originally stared by Steve Battle

Steve Speicher: Originally stared by Steve Battle

14:28:18 <Ashok> SteveS explains issue

SteveS explains issue

14:28:36 <bblfish> ok, sounds good

Henry Story: ok, sounds good

14:29:05 <Ashok> No objection to opening ISSUE-69

No objection to opening ISSUE-69

<Ashok> Resolved: Open ISSUE-69

RESOLVED: Open ISSUE-69

14:29:20 <Ashok> Topic:  Test Suite

3. Test Suite

14:29:22 <SteveS> ericP, you going to be available soon?

Steve Speicher: ericP, you going to be available soon?

14:29:37 <Ashok> Waiting for EricP

Waiting for EricP

14:29:40 <SteveS> Test Suite information : https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html

Steve Speicher: Test Suite information : https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html

14:30:13 <Ashok> Topic:  Open Issues

4. Open Issues

14:30:21 <Ashok> subTopic: ISSUE-58

4.1. ISSUE-58

14:30:21 <trackbot> ISSUE-58 -- Property for asserting that complete description of members is included in LDPC representation -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-58 -- Property for asserting that complete description of members is included in LDPC representation -- open

14:30:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/58

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/58

14:30:45 <SteveS> Proposal from Arnaud see option B http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0141.html

Steve Speicher: Proposal from Arnaud see option B http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0141.html

14:30:56 <Ashok> SteveS:  We took a straw poll on this last week

Steve Speicher: We took a straw poll on this last week

14:31:27 <SteveS> Proposal: Close ISSUE-58 by adding to ldp:Container a property ldp:memberInlined which indicates the

PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-58 by adding to ldp:Container a property ldp:memberInlined which indicates the

14:31:28 <SteveS> members for which a complete description is inlined in the container document.

Steve Speicher: members for which a complete description is inlined in the container document.

14:31:45 <Ashok>  Option B:  Add to ldp:Container a property ldp:memberInlined which indicates the  members for which a complete description is inlined in the container  document.

Option B: Add to ldp:Container a property ldp:memberInlined which indicates the members for which a complete description is inlined in the container document.

14:32:14 <TallTed> I suggest changing "indicates" to "enumerates" or "lists" ... and then +1

Ted Thibodeau: I suggest changing "indicates" to "enumerates" or "lists" ... and then +1

14:32:47 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

14:32:51 <roger> +q

Roger Menday: +q

14:33:05 <rgarcia> Agree with TallTed, not clear whether the ldp:memberInlined property is for one resource or for a list of them

Raúl García Castro: Agree with TallTed, not clear whether the ldp:memberInlined property is for one resource or for a list of them

14:33:11 <roger> zakim, i am [IPcaller]

Roger Menday: zakim, i am [IPcaller]

14:33:11 <Zakim> ok, roger, I now associate Roger with [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, roger, I now associate Roger with [IPcaller]

14:33:31 <krp> zakim, ??P27 is me

Kevin Page: zakim, ??P27 is me

14:33:31 <Zakim> +krp; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +krp; got it

14:34:10 <Ashok> bblfish:  Why not just one resource that is "inlined"?

Henry Story: Why not just one resource that is "inlined"?

14:34:25 <bblfish> <> ldp:memberInlined <member1>, <member2>, <member3>

Henry Story: <> ldp:memberInlined <member1>, <member2>, <member3>

14:34:32 <JohnArwe> raul: members (plural) in the email

Raúl García Castro: members (plural) in the email [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ]

14:34:55 <JohnArwe> henry: if you have access to browser, Arnaud's email does have proposed turtle for each option

Henry Story: if you have access to browser, Arnaud's email does have proposed turtle for each option [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ]

14:34:56 <nmihindu> There is an example at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0141.html

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: There is an example at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0141.html

14:35:02 <rgarcia> JohnArwe: in the email and in the proposal it is in singular

John Arwe: in the email and in the proposal it is in singular [ Scribe Assist by Raúl García Castro ]

14:35:07 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

14:35:07 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted

14:35:31 <Ashok> TallTed: "Indicates" is unclear. Please reword.

Ted Thibodeau: "Indicates" is unclear. Please reword.

14:35:42 <roger> so, ldp:memberfullyinlined ?

Roger Menday: so, ldp:memberfullyinlined ?

14:35:43 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

14:35:43 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

14:35:45 <SteveS> q?

Steve Speicher: q?

14:35:48 <SteveS> ack bblfish

Steve Speicher: ack bblfish

14:35:49 <JohnArwe> raul: from the 141 email link above:

Raúl García Castro: from the 141 email link above: [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ]

14:35:51 <JohnArwe> Option B:

John Arwe: Option B:

14:35:51 <JohnArwe> Add to ldp:Container a property ldp:memberInlined which indicates the members for which a complete description is inlined in the container document.

John Arwe: Add to ldp:Container a property ldp:memberInlined which indicates the members for which a complete description is inlined in the container document.

14:35:52 <roger> -q

Roger Menday: -q

14:35:54 <bblfish> q-

Henry Story: q-

14:36:07 <JohnArwe> ...i.e. indicates the members (sic - members)

John Arwe: ...i.e. indicates the members (sic - members)

14:36:13 <SteveS> Zakim, [IPCaller] is roger

Steve Speicher: Zakim, [IPCaller] is roger

14:36:13 <Zakim> +roger; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +roger; got it

14:36:18 <TallTed> Zakim, [IPcaller] is roger

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, [IPcaller] is roger

14:36:18 <Zakim> sorry, TallTed, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, TallTed, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'

14:36:22 <SteveS> ack [IPCaller]

Steve Speicher: ack [IPCaller]

14:36:33 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

14:36:53 <bblfish> q-

Henry Story: q-

14:37:02 <Ashok> Roger: It's a list not a single property

Roger Menday: It's a list not a single property

14:37:13 <Zakim> +[GVoice]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[GVoice]

14:37:13 <SteveS> Proposal: Close ISSUE-58 by adding to ldp:Container a property ldp:memberInlined which enumerates the members for which a complete description is inlined in the container response document.

PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-58 by adding to ldp:Container a property ldp:memberInlined which enumerates the members for which a complete description is inlined in the container response document.

14:37:35 <bblfish> anyway, it makes sense to me the way it is

Henry Story: anyway, it makes sense to me the way it is

14:37:55 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

14:38:00 <SteveS> +1

Steve Speicher: +1

14:38:15 <JohnArwe> zakim, [GVoice] is ericP

John Arwe: zakim, [GVoice] is ericP

14:38:15 <Zakim> +ericP; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP; got it

14:38:21 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

14:38:22 <roger> +q

Roger Menday: +q

14:38:23 <bblfish> Close ISSUE-58 by adding to ldp:Container a property ldp:memberInlined which relates the container to LDPRs for which a complete description is inlined in the container response document.

Henry Story: Close ISSUE-58 by adding to ldp:Container a property ldp:memberInlined which relates the container to LDPRs for which a complete description is inlined in the container response document.

14:38:24 <svillata> +1

Serena Villata: +1

14:38:25 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

14:38:25 <bblfish> +1

Henry Story: +1

14:38:26 <krp> +1

Kevin Page: +1

14:38:26 <nmihindu> +1

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: +1

14:38:53 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

14:38:53 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should no longer be muted

14:38:53 <sandro> <container> ldp:memberInlined <memberURI>

Sandro Hawke: <container> ldp:memberInlined <memberURI>

14:38:55 <rgarcia> +0.5 (without seeing the example it is not clear if we are referring to an rdf:List or not)

Raúl García Castro: +0.5 (without seeing the example it is not clear if we are referring to an rdf:List or not)

14:38:59 <Arnaud> I thought we could repeat the property but it could also be a list

Arnaud Le Hors: I thought we could repeat the property but it could also be a list

14:39:25 <bblfish> the ldp:memberInlines is  a one to many relation

Henry Story: the ldp:memberInlines is a one to many relation

14:39:34 <JohnArwe> raul: the example from email 141 is

Raúl García Castro: the example from email 141 is [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ]

14:39:35 <JohnArwe> <>

John Arwe: <>

14:39:35 <JohnArwe>    a o:NetWorth, ldp:Container;

John Arwe: a o:NetWorth, ldp:Container;

14:39:35 <JohnArwe>    ldp:membershipPredicate o:asset;

John Arwe: ldp:membershipPredicate o:asset;

14:39:35 <JohnArwe>    o:asset <a1>, <a2>;

John Arwe: o:asset <a1>, <a2>;

14:39:35 <JohnArwe>    ldp:memberInlined <a1>, <a2>.

John Arwe: ldp:memberInlined <a1>, <a2>.

14:39:36 <sandro> <#myFriendsCollection> ldp:memberInlined <#alice>, <#bob>, <#david>.    # Not charlie

Sandro Hawke: <#myFriendsCollection> ldp:memberInlined <#alice>, <#bob>, <#david>. # Not charlie

14:39:43 <Ashok> TallTed:  One triple per inlined member

Ted Thibodeau: One triple per inlined member

14:39:44 <ericP> -.5

Eric Prud'hommeaux: -.5

14:41:10 <sandro> <> ldp:memberInlined <#alice>, <#bob>, <#david>.    # Not charlie

Sandro Hawke: <> ldp:memberInlined <#alice>, <#bob>, <#david>. # Not charlie

14:41:24 <Ashok> bblfish:  Objects to use of # urls

Henry Story: Objects to use of # urls

14:41:28 <sandro> ... means All the triples I know that involved #alice are in this document.

Sandro Hawke: ... means All the triples I know that involved #alice are in this document.

14:41:47 <pchampin> wondering what happens when the container is paginated

Pierre-Antoine Champin: wondering what happens when the container is paginated

14:41:50 <Ashok> Eric:  The # urls should be : Urls

Ted Thibodeau: The # urls should be : Urls

14:42:01 <TallTed> s/Eric:/TallTed:/
14:42:04 <sandro> But not "must".    Hash URIs are fine for this.

Sandro Hawke: But not "must". Hash URIs are fine for this.

14:42:18 <SteveS> pchampin, a difference I was thinking it might be a property of a ldp:Page in that case

Steve Speicher: pchampin, a difference I was thinking it might be a property of a ldp:Page in that case

14:42:39 <pchampin> yes, I think that would be wise

Pierre-Antoine Champin: yes, I think that would be wise

14:42:58 <pchampin> in fact, I would prefer that it was always a property of ldp:Page

Pierre-Antoine Champin: in fact, I would prefer that it was always a property of ldp:Page

14:43:05 <pchampin> even if the container is described by a single ldp:Page

Pierre-Antoine Champin: even if the container is described by a single ldp:Page

14:43:07 <ericP> <alice> { <sa> <pa> <oa> . } <container> { <> ldp:memberInlined <alice> . }

Eric Prud'hommeaux: <alice> { <sa> <pa> <oa> . } <container> { <> ldp:memberInlined <alice> . }

14:43:14 <Ashok> q+

q+

14:44:13 <Ashok> Eric:  Wonders if it's a all or none property

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Wonders if it's a all or none property

14:44:26 <sandro> but if you're including all the triples, one more is okay.

Sandro Hawke: but if you're including all the triples, one more is okay.

14:45:46 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

14:45:46 <Zakim> TallTed was not muted, TallTed

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed was not muted, TallTed

14:45:55 <TallTed> q+

Ted Thibodeau: q+

14:46:09 <Ashok> Eric:  LDP data will be mainly homogeneous

Eric Prud'hommeaux: LDP data will be mainly homogeneous

14:46:13 <SteveS> ack roger

Steve Speicher: ack roger

14:46:13 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

14:46:17 <nmihindu> ericP, It is like option A in the proposals ?

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: ericP, It is like option A in the proposals ?

14:46:40 <Ashok> Roger:  Disagrees if LDP is really rectangular data

Roger Menday: Disagrees if LDP is really rectangular data

14:46:55 <SteveS> nmihindu, is what I understand ericP is saying

Steve Speicher: nmihindu, is what I understand ericP is saying

14:47:04 <ericP> nmihindu, iirc, there is a proposal with a global predicate to indicate exhaustively inlined members. that may be A

Eric Prud'hommeaux: nmihindu, iirc, there is a proposal with a global predicate to indicate exhaustively inlined members. that may be A

14:47:09 <bblfish> I have a better solution guys

Henry Story: I have a better solution guys

14:47:21 <SteveS> q?

Steve Speicher: q?

14:47:25 <SteveS> ack Ashok

Steve Speicher: ack Ashok

14:48:10 <bblfish> Ashok give me a second

Henry Story: Ashok give me a second

14:48:29 <SteveS> ack TallTed

Steve Speicher: ack TallTed

14:48:30 <bblfish> I'll argue for something that solves both those issues simultaneoulsy

Henry Story: I'll argue for something that solves both those issues simultaneoulsy

14:48:35 <Ashok> ... we can make it more general

... we can make it more general

14:48:51 <ericP> q+ to say that when we see the situation for which the enumeration is appropriate, we can add it

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to say that when we see the situation for which the enumeration is appropriate, we can add it

14:49:04 <Ashok> Ashok:  How about also a single boolean property that all members are inled

Ashok Malhotra: How about also a single boolean property that all members are inlined

14:49:14 <Ashok> s/inled/inlined/
14:49:31 <Ashok> Ted:  Argues for both properties

Ted Thibodeau: Argues for both properties

14:49:38 <SteveS> ack bblfish

Steve Speicher: ack bblfish

14:50:11 <bblfish> <> member [ title "hello world",... ]

Henry Story: <> member [ title "hello world",... ]

14:50:14 <Ashok> Henry:  We don't need either property

Henry Story: We don't need either property

14:50:31 <bblfish> <> member [ title "hello world",...  owl:sameAs <member> ]

Henry Story: <> member [ title "hello world",... owl:sameAs <member> ]

14:50:33 <Ashok> ... use a blank node as above

... use a blank node as above

14:51:00 <ericP> the bnode is cool for this purpose 'cause in fact one could not dereference it, but i suspect that a lot of our infrastructure depends on dereference

Eric Prud'hommeaux: the bnode is cool for this purpose 'cause in fact one could not dereference it, but i suspect that a lot of our infrastructure depends on dereference

14:51:15 <pchampin> @bblfish: this has the same problem as ldp:hasInlinedMember: adds an extra triple (owl:sameAs)

Pierre-Antoine Champin: @bblfish: this has the same problem as ldp:hasInlinedMember: adds an extra triple (owl:sameAs)

14:51:28 <pchampin> ... and makes things cumbersome for non-OWL-enabled clients

Pierre-Antoine Champin: ... and makes things cumbersome for non-OWL-enabled clients

14:53:20 <Ashok> Henry:  sameAs is widely used

Henry Story: sameAs is widely used

14:53:26 <JohnArwe> ericp: we GA'd an integration component 2 months ago (where we think LDP fits nicely) that is a single heterogeneous collection of all (for some definition of all) IT resources in an enterprise.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: we shipped an integration component 2 months ago (where we think LDP fits nicely) that is a single heterogeneous collection of all (for some definition of all) IT resources in an enterprise. [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ]

14:53:44 <ericP> 'GA'?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: 'GA'?

14:54:07 <SteveS> s/GA'd/shipped/
14:54:11 <JohnArwe> generally available ... i.e. we're allowed to talk about it w/o lawyers, and you can "buy" it

John Arwe: generally available ... i.e. we're allowed to talk about it w/o lawyers, and you can "buy" it

14:54:50 <ericP> JohnArwe, ok, so that's a case for option B

Eric Prud'hommeaux: JohnArwe, ok, so that's a case for option B

14:55:03 <Ashok> SteveS:  How should we proceed

Steve Speicher: How should we proceed

14:55:31 <Ashok> Ted:  We have options E and F.  E is both properties, F is Henry's new proposal

Ted Thibodeau: We have options E and F. E is both properties, F is Henry's new proposal

14:55:33 <bblfish> I'll write up my proposal

Henry Story: I'll write up my proposal

14:55:39 <bblfish> and send to the list.

Henry Story: and send to the list.

14:55:43 <ericP> +1 to A, я and X but never Q

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to A, я and X but never Q

14:56:07 <Ashok> Topic:  Test Suite (continue)

5. Test Suite (continue)

14:56:08 <SteveS> Test Case first draft http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html

Steve Speicher: Test Case first draft http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html

14:57:28 <Ashok> Raul: 3 topics ..,design of test, how to run tests and how test are described

Raúl García Castro: 3 topics ..,design of test, how to run tests and how test are described

14:58:00 <Ashok> ... I have some issues I will send to mailing list

... I have some issues I will send to mailing list

14:58:49 <Ashok> Raul describes how test suite would work

Raul describes how test suite would work

15:00:08 <cody> q+

Cody Burleson: q+

15:00:38 <ericP> q-

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q-

15:00:51 <SteveS> ack cody

Steve Speicher: ack cody

15:01:07 <Ashok> Raul:  If we only have tests for the MUST statements, we will have very few test.  Need to think about how to test optional statements

Raúl García Castro: If we only have tests for the MUST statements, we will have very few test. Need to think about how to test optional statements

15:01:52 <Ashok> Cody:  What is purposee of test suite?   Why don't implementers write their own tests?

Cody Burleson: What is purposee of test suite? Why don't implementers write their own tests?

15:02:04 <Ashok> ... need an introduction

... need an introduction

15:02:19 <JohnArwe> cody: one use we've discussed previously for the test suite is to form proposals for change in them, as a way to agree on the DESRIED result of a given set of inputs and interactions.

Cody Burleson: one use we've discussed previously for the test suite is to form proposals for change in them, as a way to agree on the DESRIED result of a given set of inputs and interactions. [ Scribe Assist by John Arwe ]

15:02:38 <JohnArwe> interop testing is the big kahuna though

John Arwe: interop testing is the big kahuna though

15:02:46 <Ashok> Eric:  From a process perspective we need to say we have 2 or more implementations.  Also need that for outreach.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: From a process perspective we need to say we have 2 or more implementations. Also need that for outreach.

15:02:58 <SteveS> thanks all, if you need to drop understand…just want to continue discussion as some of us having been able to sync up on this

Steve Speicher: thanks all, if you need to drop understand…just want to continue discussion as some of us having not been able to sync up on this

15:03:09 <Zakim> -roger

Zakim IRC Bot: -roger

15:03:22 <SteveS> s/been able/not been able/
15:03:57 <bblfish> very good answer :-)

Henry Story: very good answer :-)

15:04:04 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

15:04:07 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:04:07 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

15:04:12 <Ashok> Eric:  The implementations must be able to say they pass they test to say they are conforming implementations

Eric Prud'hommeaux: The implementations must be able to say the pass the test to say the are conforming implementations

15:04:17 <Zakim> -krp

Zakim IRC Bot: -krp

15:04:24 <Ashok> s/they/the/
15:04:53 <SteveS> q?

Steve Speicher: q?

15:05:44 <Zakim> -TallTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed

15:05:56 <SteveS> ack sandro

Steve Speicher: ack sandro

15:06:45 <Ashok> Sandro:  Rather than implementations saying whether they pass or fail, this approach says they just send us the output.  This is a new approach

Sandro Hawke: Rather than implementations saying whether they pass or fail, this approach says they just send us the output. This is a new approach

15:08:44 <Ashok> Discussion about implementation should report output rather than just pass/fail

Discussion about implementation should report output rather than just pass/fail

15:09:06 <Zakim> -JohnArwe

Zakim IRC Bot: -JohnArwe

15:09:21 <bblfish> +1

Henry Story: +1

15:09:38 <Ashok> SteveS:  Let's adjourn but we can have a discussion

Steve Speicher: Let's adjourn but we can have a discussion

15:09:46 <Zakim> -svillata

Zakim IRC Bot: -svillata

15:09:46 <ericP> ADJOURNED

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ADJOURNED

15:09:55 <bblfish> Steve attempting a speec acts for closing the session

Henry Story: Steve attempting a speech acts for closing the session

15:10:05 <bblfish> s/speec/speech/
15:10:19 <bblfish> :-)

Henry Story: :-)

15:12:33 <rgarcia> q+

Raúl García Castro: q+

15:12:57 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

15:14:12 <SteveS> ack rgarcia

Steve Speicher: ack rgarcia

15:14:40 <SteveS> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html#TC-C9

Steve Speicher: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html#TC-C9

15:14:53 <ericP> -> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html#TC-C9 POST an LDPR on an LDPC

Eric Prud'hommeaux: -> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/Test%20Cases/LDP%20Test%20Cases.html#TC-C9 POST an LDPR on an LDPC

15:15:56 <SteveS> ack bblfish

Steve Speicher: ack bblfish

15:16:23 <SteveS> bblfish: is saying there is also some issue with access control, meaning can then create and delete

Henry Story: is saying there is also some issue with access control, meaning can then create and delete [ Scribe Assist by Steve Speicher ]

15:17:32 <SteveS> ericP: for now, we just tell them to make sure the user creds they use have appropriate rights do the operations of the test

Eric Prud'hommeaux: for now, we just tell them to make sure the user creds they use have appropriate rights do the operations of the test [ Scribe Assist by Steve Speicher ]

15:17:37 <bblfish> true

Henry Story: true

15:18:08 <bblfish> ok so SPARQL tests also have update problems which could involve access control

Henry Story: ok so SPARQL tests also have update problems which could involve access control

15:21:40 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra

15:25:16 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

15:25:18 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.a]

15:25:18 <Zakim> -SteveS

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveS

15:25:22 <Zakim> -rgarcia

Zakim IRC Bot: -rgarcia

15:25:25 <Zakim> -nmihindu

Zakim IRC Bot: -nmihindu

15:25:28 <Zakim> -ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP

15:25:29 <Zakim> -Kalpa

Zakim IRC Bot: -Kalpa

15:30:29 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, bblfish, in SW_LDP()10:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, bblfish, in SW_LDP()10:00AM

15:30:31 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

15:30:31 <Zakim> Attendees were SteveS, cody, TallTed, Ashok_Malhotra, svillata, JohnArwe, rgarcia, nmihindu, Sandro, bblfish, Kalpa, krp, roger, ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were SteveS, cody, TallTed, Ashok_Malhotra, svillata, JohnArwe, rgarcia, nmihindu, Sandro, bblfish, Kalpa, krp, roger, ericP



Formatted by CommonScribe