Meeting Record

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Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA2 ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see agipap, Serafin, PhilA2, [IPcaller], +8532871aaaa, ??P5, ??P6, ??P7 ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see DeirdreLee, martinAlvarez, RRSAgent, Zakim, fhenning, PhilA2, elsa, billroberts, Olcoz, Tomasz, agipap, mariateresa, trackbot, heathjs, sandro ←

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, martinAlvarez, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Tomasz, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see agipap, Serafin, PhilA2, [IPcaller], +8532871aaaa, ??P5, ??P6, martinAlvarez (muted), [IPcaller.a] ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see rgrp, DeirdreLee, martinAlvarez, RRSAgent, Zakim, fhenning, PhilA2, elsa, billroberts, Olcoz, Tomasz, agipap, mariateresa, trackbot, heathjs, sandro ←

Unknown agipap: is Agis Panatoniou from NTUA Greece [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Unknown billroberts: Hi All - from UK, particular interest in Linked Data for public sector ←

Tomasz Janowski: OD has not yet beenproperly exploited, but can have huge potential ←

Unknown elsa: I am trying to connect on the phone and type 3468# and I get the message that the code is incorrect ←

Tomasz Janowski: according to April's OD workshop by IDRC/Berkman center, there is a range of potential benefis from OD ←

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA2 ←

...same workshop also identified strateic tensions relating to adoption of OD ←

...another point is a strat. tnesion between qualitative and quanitative methods to explore impact of OD ←

...it will be dificult to quantify many impacts. this impacts how analysis is framed ←

2. presentation by open knowledge foundation (rufus pollock)

Unknown rgrp: the notebook post would probably be the optimum thing to link to ←

[audio line from rufus has suboptimal sound quality, scribing will not be complete, pls refer to slides on wiki for more complete notes] ←

phil could you aid with scribing for this presentation if you receive better audio? ←

Phil Archer: Slide 3 - we want a rich data ecosystm. Easy to share data, easy to use ←

Zakim IRC Bot: PhilA2, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Serafin (26%), [IPcaller.a] (98%), +44.786.783.aadd (68%) ←

Unknown rgrp: We're missing quite a lot of this middle piece. We have the top anad bottom but not the intermediatary group ←

Unknown rgrp: To give you an example. If you;re trying to build something on a hack day, you spend half your data cleaning up data ←

... assuming you can find it, it's not in the right form, got messy terms etc. ←

Unknown rgrp: A classic thing you might want to do is garb data and put in into postgre ←

... this is not a one liner. There's a lot to do. What we want is a one line to get data from a catalogue and put it into a local tool ←

Unknown rgrp: A lot of software integration doesn't happen automatically. A lot of it is based on APIs ←

Unknown rgrp: We need that kind of software packaging ecosystem - how do we do that with data? ←

Unknown rgrp: WE want to be better at automating getting data on nad off our machines ←

Unknown rgrp: We've been doing a thing called dataprotocols.org where people can hangout and work on specs ←

Unknown rgrp: Focus on tabular data. The catalogues I've seen, tabular + geo is almost all of what gets published ←

Unknown rgrp: It has a lot of attractive properties that I could go on about ←

Unknown rgrp: flat files like CSV are very attractive. It may not be pretty but it is effective - like a Kalashnikov rifle ←

Unknown rgrp: we need version info for CSVs. Open is important, but if eberyone is collaborating, how to we do version management for CSV ←

Unknown rgrp: Git or Mercurial are potentially good ones for CSAV as they are line-orientated ←

... what it boils down to is a bunch of data files, you have JSON and you can have other stuff ←

Unknown rgrp: https://github.com/datasets/cofog/blob/master/datapackage.json ←

"description": "Classification of the Functions of Government (COFOG) is a classification defined by the United Nations Statistics Division. Its purpose is to \"classify the purpose of transactions such as outlays on final consumption expenditure, intermediate consumption, gross capital formation and capital and current transfers, by general government\" (from home page).", ←

Unknown rgrp: Interested to hear from the LD community in things like JSON-LD ←

Unknown rgrp: Wrapping up... you could push this to a local Web site and you have a data package ←

Unknown rgrp: Not concerned whether we adopt this kind of package or something that does the same thing, but it's how to publish data packages without a data catalogue ←

Unknown rgrp: Some people have suggested we drop JSON nad just use another Excel worksheet to provide the data ←

Unknown rgrp: We want to reduce the fritcion to getting, using and sharing data ←

Phil Archer: w3c is aware of process for schemas. there's a workshop planned for next year on exactly the issues that rufus has been addressing. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown fhenning ] ←

Unknown Gwyn_Sutherlin: Do you do work around unstructured data - text, audio, video etc? [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Unknown rgrp: Yes, we do, It's the Open Knowledge Foundation - we're format agnostic [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Unknown Gwyn_Sutherlin: Our cases are usually around transparency and cirrpution [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

[sorry, the audio problems seem to be at our device . its'not possible for me to do complete scribing at this point. could you take over phil?] ←

Deirdre Lee: Thanks Rufus for the presentation. Do you see things like DCAT as added overhead? What tools do you see for packahing data? [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Unknown rgrp: That's my point. The spec allows you to build the tool. We have a tool called DPM [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Unknown rgrp: DCAT is in some ways format agnostic but it's an LD format. For an Excel user, you can tell them in 30" how to export in CSV. There's no "export in .n3" option [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Unknown rgrp: Maybe the metadata file should be a .ini file for a simple example [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Unknown rgrp: Most formats are very simple, with JSON as the most complex. Need things people can produce with the tools they have [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←

Unknown rgrp: see python, ruby, debs, nodejs etc - all have super simple package formats .. ←

Unknown rgrp: also you need a reason for people to package - you need something they can then do ... (e.g. get something into postgres in 30s) ←

3. Serafin Olcoz on Openness and Reuse of Public Sector Information using Open Data Publishing, Decree

Phil Archer: I love this line - The public sector is an archipelago of competences and budgets ←

Unknown Olcoz: If you want to develop software, you are obloged to see what's already available and build on that ←

... you need to write a report on various aspects. What you're using, what you're contributing back etc. (under EUPL licence) ←

q+ to ask about mandatory report etc. (when Serafin has finished, not before) ←

Unknown Olcoz: You are required to publish at least the dependencies as it affects everyone, not just you ←

Unknown Olcoz: The aim is to have a global idea of what is being done using public money to develop software ←

Phil Archer: The obligation applies just to people being paid by the public sector and not to third party developers? ←

Unknown Olcoz: Private sector can take OSS and develop new products and services based on the OSS directory ←

Unknown Olcoz: They may then realise the advantage of this and can, if they want, open their own source code ←

Unknown Olcoz: Supporting local enterprise and investment without having to spend public sector money - an unimportant feature in the current climate ←

Unknown Olcoz: We'd like others to share out approach of course and would welcome a European approach ←

Unknown Olcoz: In order to allow people to use your OSS, you need to have a portal to make it available and to be able to access other repositories ←

... if somethinng is under development and you can wait for it to be ready before you use it, then you know to wait, If you can't wait, you know you need to go your own way. ←

Unknown Olcoz: We're agnostic about formats. It can be data, or text or code etc. ←

Unknown Olcoz: We defined various vocabularies, including for the re-use process ←

Tomasz Janowski: we will reschedule Elsa's presentation for the next meeting ←

Unknown Olcoz: talks about the schemas in use. Refers to RADion (http://www.w3.org/ns/radion) and the ISA Programme that created it ←

Tomasz Janowski: but i would still like some discussion about Serafin's talk ←

Unknown Olcoz: Model can be used to link different sources of data from the Web. Important to see repository itself as an asset - needed to extend RADion ←

Unknown Olcoz: We find problems with ADMS and DCAT. They don't cover everything we need ←

Unknown Olcoz: Three new portals launching in a couple of weeks' time. All source code is open for re-use ←

Unknown Olcoz: If you need info about the decree - I've submitted links to English resources to the IG ←

Tomasz Janowski: Can you give us a sense of the size of the Basque government involvement? ←

Unknown Olcoz: We're still working on finishing the repositories so we'll have to wait a few months to be able to report on experience ←

Tomasz Janowski: Is design for re-use part of the requirement of the new software project? ←

Unknown Olcoz: People often saw design as being very specific to a use. In the early 90s, people began to change that view. Now you see a lot of re-usable software components ←

Unknown Olcoz: I'd like to say I'm making a presentation on this to the GLD WG this Thursday ←

Tomasz Janowski: Apologies to Elsa for moving your presentation to our next meeting next month ←

Tomasz Janowski: A reminder that we have an open call for assistance with developing the group's summary of the various presentations we have received concerning social media ←

Tomasz Janowski: Next few meetings will be on open data - and so will welcome guests and ideas for speakers ←

Zakim IRC Bot: leaving. As of this point the attendees were agipap, PhilA2, [IPcaller], +8532871aaaa, Serafin, martinAlvarez, Tomasz, +8532871aabb, +8532871aacc, +44.786.783.aadd, Elsa, Rufus, ←

eGov Interest Group

Minutes of 26 November 2012

1. Open data kickoff

2. presentation by open knowledge foundation (rufus pollock)

3. Serafin Olcoz on Openness and Reuse of Public Sector Information using Open Data Publishing, Decree