None.
<sandro> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4
<sandro> Guest: Jason (jkiss) Kiss
<sandro> Guest: Mark Crawford
<sandro> Guest: Kevin Simkins
<sandro> Guest: Bernard Gidon
<sandro> Guest: Virginie Galindo
<sandro> Guest: Chingteng Hsiao
<sandro> Guest: Cheng Hung
<sandro> Present: Dave_McAllister, Hadley_Beeman, Jeanne_Holm, John_Erickson, Phil_Archer, Yosuke_Funahashi
<sandro> Remote: Sandro_Hawke, Paola Di Maio, Bernadette Hyland, Gannon Dick, Somnath Chandra, josema, bhandspicker
12:53:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-egov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-egov-irc ←
12:53:21 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4
Sandro Hawke: sandro has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4 ←
12:53:45 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: eGov all-day meeting Oct 31, Nov 1 -- http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4
Sandro Hawke: sandro has changed the topic to: eGov all-day meeting Oct 31, Nov 1 -- http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4 ←
12:54:41 <Paola> greets!
Paola Di Maio: greets! ←
13:49:36 <sandro> zakim, this will be egov
(No events recorded for 54 minutes)
Sandro Hawke: zakim, this will be egov ←
15:54:26 <sandro> zakim, this will be egov
(No events recorded for 124 minutes)
Sandro Hawke: zakim, this will be egov ←
15:54:26 <Zakim> ok, sandro; I see SW_e-Gov(eGovIG)11:00AM scheduled to start 54 minutes ago
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, sandro; I see SW_e-Gov(eGovIG)11:00AM scheduled to start 54 minutes ago ←
15:54:34 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer? ←
15:54:34 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-egov-irc#T15-54-34
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-egov-irc#T15-54-34 ←
15:54:41 <sandro> RRSAgent, make logs public
Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
15:58:04 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: eGov all-day meeting Oct 31, Nov 1 -- http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4 Conf Code 346844
Sandro Hawke: sandro has changed the topic to: eGov all-day meeting Oct 31, Nov 1 -- http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4 Conf Code 346844 ←
15:58:21 <sandro> grrr. the conference code is egovIG not egov.
Sandro Hawke: grrr. the conference code is egovIG not egov. ←
15:59:29 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
16:02:44 <sandro> PhilA, there's a speakerphone there and you'll be dialing in?
Sandro Hawke: PhilA, there's a speakerphone there and you'll be dialing in? ←
16:02:52 <sandro> (or having Zakim dial out)
Sandro Hawke: (or having Zakim dial out) ←
16:03:01 <sandro> great. :)
Sandro Hawke: great. :) ←
16:03:06 <HadleyBeeman> (And good morning, by the way!)
Hadley Beeman: (And good morning, by the way!) ←
16:03:16 <sandro> Good morning, Hadley :)
Sandro Hawke: Good morning, Hadley :) ←
16:03:35 <sandro> Are y'all in your best halloween costumes?
Sandro Hawke: Are y'all in your best halloween costumes? ←
16:03:49 <HadleyBeeman> I was told to dress up as a Brit who doesn't do Halloween costumes :)
Hadley Beeman: I was told to dress up as a Brit who doesn't do Halloween costumes :) ←
16:04:02 <davemc> yes, I'm pretending to be an Adobe employee
Dave McAllister: yes, I'm pretending to be an Adobe employee ←
16:04:04 <sandro> And I bet you did a good job.
Sandro Hawke: And I bet you did a good job. ←
16:04:12 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_ was kind enough to bring is all candy though. It does feel festive.
Hadley Beeman: Jeanne_ was kind enough to bring is all candy though. It does feel festive. ←
16:04:29 <Zakim> +tpac
Zakim IRC Bot: +tpac ←
16:04:43 <davemc> yep on the candy. Heath bars, the second most addictive candy in the world
Dave McAllister: yep on the candy. Heath bars, the second most addictive candy in the world ←
16:04:50 <gdick> Dressed up as a snow shoveler, Sandro ?
Gannon Dick: Dressed up as a snow shoveler, Sandro ? ←
16:05:07 <sandro> :-) gdick only a few inches here.
Sandro Hawke: :-) gdick only a few inches here. ←
16:05:30 <Jeanne_> I'll have to send candy bars to everyone who's on virtually--happy halloween!
Jeanne Holm: I'll have to send candy bars to everyone who's on virtually--happy halloween! ←
16:06:09 <sandro> Meeting: eGov IG F2F4 Day 1
16:06:13 <sandro> Chair: Jeanne Holm
16:06:14 <olyerickson> I'm on....
John Erickson: I'm on.... ←
16:06:27 <PhilA> Zakim, please welcome olyerickson he had to work hard to get here
Phil Archer: Zakim, please welcome olyerickson he had to work hard to get here ←
16:06:27 <Zakim> I don't understand you, PhilA
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand you, PhilA ←
16:06:48 <Zakim> +bhyland
Zakim IRC Bot: +bhyland ←
16:07:12 <olyerickson> Good Afternoon @bhyland
John Erickson: Good Afternoon @bhyland ←
16:09:43 <Zakim> + +1.410.975.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.410.975.aaaa ←
16:11:33 <Paola> good people, can you tell how long this session should last? is it a couple o hrs or all day?
Paola Di Maio: good people, can you tell how long this session should last? is it a couple o hrs or all day? ←
16:11:36 <bhyland> zakim, who is speaking?
Bernadette Hyland: zakim, who is speaking? ←
16:11:47 <Zakim> bhyland, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
Zakim IRC Bot: bhyland, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds ←
16:12:01 <sandro> Paola, all day. http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4
Sandro Hawke: Paola, all day. http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4 ←
16:12:09 <Paola> ok rephraseL zakim, can you tell how long this session should last? is it a couple o hrs or all day?
Paola Di Maio: ok rephraseL zakim, can you tell how long this session should last? is it a couple o hrs or all day? ←
16:12:28 <sandro> Topic: Intros
16:12:34 <Paola> thanks s
Paola Di Maio: thanks s ←
16:12:44 <bhyland> @Paola, is goes from 9:00 AM US PST until 17:00
Bernadette Hyland: @Paola, is goes from 9:00 AM US PST until 17:00 ←
16:12:46 <sandro> for the minutes, Paola, what's your name?
Sandro Hawke: for the minutes, Paola, what's your name? ←
16:12:57 <Paola> Paola Di Maio
Paola Di Maio: Paola Di Maio ←
16:13:26 <sandro> right, of course, Paola :-)
Sandro Hawke: right, of course, Paola :-) ←
16:13:28 <Paola> I will be around an hour or so
Paola Di Maio: I will be around an hour or so ←
16:13:33 <PhilA> Scribe duties
Phil Archer: Scribe duties ←
16:14:37 <bhyland> Sandro: Audio has some feedback / static. Could that be due to where the speakers are physically located. I can hear Phil, Jeanne OK
Bernadette Hyland: Sandro, Audio has some feedback / static. Could that be due to where the speakers are physically located. I can hear Phil, Jeanne OK ←
16:14:54 <sandro> s/:/,/
16:14:58 <bhyland> But there is static when they speak.
Bernadette Hyland: But there is static when they speak. ←
16:15:20 <sandro> bhyland, Yeah .. I expect it's the just the hotel air handlers, but we can ask them to try to adjust things.
Sandro Hawke: bhyland, Yeah .. I expect it's the just the hotel air handlers, but we can ask them to try to adjust things. ←
16:15:24 <PhilA> General conversation about how eGovIG came about
Phil Archer: General conversation about how eGovIG came about ←
16:16:04 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: gives her elevator/how I explain it to my mum and dad pitch
Hadley Beeman: gives her elevator/how I explain it to my mum and dad pitch [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
16:16:29 <Zakim> - +1.410.975.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.410.975.aaaa ←
16:16:51 <PhilA> davemc: tries to think who was in the egov mark I
Dave McAllister: tries to think who was in the egov mark I [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
16:17:12 <PhilA> Jeanne: begins the meeting
Jeanne Holm: begins the meeting [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
16:17:24 <PhilA> scribe: PhilA
(Scribe set to Phil Archer)
16:17:40 <PhilA> JH: WE have 2 days with a loosely structured agenda
Jeanne Holm: WE have 2 days with a loosely structured agenda ←
16:17:57 <PhilA> JH: I get the sense of what a lot of people want to happen in these 2 days
Jeanne Holm: I get the sense of what a lot of people want to happen in these 2 days ←
16:18:05 <PhilA> ... sharing and community building is important
... sharing and community building is important ←
16:18:16 <PhilA> ... the World bank and Warsaw event are important
... the World bank and Warsaw event are important ←
16:18:20 <PhilA> ... code is important
... code is important ←
16:18:24 <PhilA> ... licences are important
... licences are important ←
16:18:58 <PhilA> ... we're not a standards body. Good that bhyland is here as GLD WG co-chair
... we're not a standards body. Good that bhyland is here as GLD WG co-chair ←
16:19:16 <sandro> zakim, IPcaller is Paola
Sandro Hawke: zakim, IPcaller is Paola ←
16:19:16 <Zakim> +Paola; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Paola; got it ←
16:19:23 <PhilA> JH: we can be advocates for that we believe in
Jeanne Holm: we can be advocates for that we believe in ←
16:19:35 <PhilA> ... someone said they really wanted to have projects based on this group
... someone said they really wanted to have projects based on this group ←
16:19:39 <Paola> she is speaking very fast
Paola Di Maio: she is speaking very fast ←
16:20:00 <Paola> Jeanne, a bit louder and a touch slower if possible for remote :=_
Paola Di Maio: Jeanne, a bit louder and a touch slower if possible for remote :=_ ←
16:20:02 <Paola> thanks
Paola Di Maio: thanks ←
16:20:12 <PhilA> ... it makes sense to work together in projects
... it makes sense to work together in projects ←
16:20:38 <PhilA> ... so I'll reiterate topics for the week - see wiki http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4
... so I'll reiterate topics for the week - see wiki http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4 ←
16:21:13 <PhilA> JH: has arrived with Lego bricks and hallowe'en treats
Jeanne Holm: has arrived with Lego bricks and hallowe'en treats ←
16:21:26 <PhilA> ... tour de table
... tour de table ←
16:21:52 <PhilA> ... who are you. why are you here? what can you contribute? What's the biggest challenge you face
... who are you. why are you here? what can you contribute? What's the biggest challenge you face ←
16:22:26 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I'm here as an IE. Open data lead at technology Strategy Board in the UK
Hadley Beeman: I'm here as an IE. Open data lead at technology Strategy Board in the UK ←
16:22:37 <PhilA> ... here to avoid having working everything out for ourselves
... here to avoid having working everything out for ourselves ←
16:22:43 <sandro> bhyland, so far IRC suggests its like this: http://www.w3.org/egov/IG/meeting/2011-10-31
Sandro Hawke: bhyland, so far IRC suggests its like this: http://www.w3.org/egov/IG/meeting/2011-10-31 ←
16:22:52 <PhilA> ... career has covered lots of the subjects on the agenda
... career has covered lots of the subjects on the agenda ←
16:23:11 <PhilA> ... interested in the non-tech messaging, connecting citizens, govt etc.
... interested in the non-tech messaging, connecting citizens, govt etc. ←
16:23:30 <PhilA> Jeanne_: I'm evangelist for open data at data.gov. Prof at UCLA etc.
Jeanne Holm: I'm evangelist for open data at data.gov. Prof at UCLA etc. ←
16:23:39 <PhilA> Jeanne_: excited about building the community
Jeanne Holm: excited about building the community ←
16:23:48 <HadleyBeeman> Bhyland, there are 8 of us in the room
Hadley Beeman: Bhyland, there are 8 of us in the room ←
16:24:12 <PhilA> Jeanne_: hoping to bring experiences of good and bad ideas
Jeanne Holm: hoping to bring experiences of good and bad ideas ←
16:24:24 <PhilA> davemc: I'm Dave McAllister from Adobe
Dave McAllister: I'm Dave McAllister from Adobe ←
16:24:30 <PhilA> ... was part of the original eGov IG
... was part of the original eGov IG ←
16:24:43 <PhilA> ... we ended up with statememts of what the issues
... we ended up with statememts of what the issues ←
16:25:31 <PhilA> ... want to bring an understanding of the open communities. Licenses, IPR, make sure we explore the right avenue. Want to make sure that data has context and owndership and they're as important as the right to use the data
... want to bring an understanding of the open communities. Licenses, IPR, make sure we explore the right avenue. Want to make sure that data has context and owndership and they're as important as the right to use the data ←
16:25:44 <Jeanne_> Dave McAllister is part of "open communities" and the open source.
Jeanne Holm: Dave McAllister is part of "open communities" and the open source. ←
16:25:45 <sandro> name of current speaker?
Sandro Hawke: name of current speaker? ←
16:25:50 <PhilA> jkiss: from the NZ govt. Dept of internal affairs
Jason Kiss: from the NZ govt. Dept of internal affairs ←
16:25:55 <Jeanne_> Jason Kiss is speaking
Jeanne Holm: Jason Kiss is speaking ←
16:25:56 <PhilA> jkiss: is Jason Kiss
Jason Kiss: is Jason Kiss ←
16:26:30 <bhyland> Current speaker is very hard to hear … far from mic??
Bernadette Hyland: Current speaker is very hard to hear … far from mic?? ←
16:26:33 <PhilA> Mark Crawford: from SAP here as an observer. Have persoanl interest
Mark Crawford: from SAP here as an observer. Have persoanl interest ←
16:26:41 <davemc> hes far from mic
Dave McAllister: hes far from mic ←
16:27:01 <PhilA> Mark Crawford has done a lot of work in this area
Mark Crawford has done a lot of work in this area ←
16:27:19 <PhilA> Yosuke Funahashi is on committe of japanese Govt
Yosuke Funahashi is on committe of japanese Govt ←
16:27:53 <PhilA> working on Web/TV devices and how they can deliver eGov
working on Web/TV devices and how they can deliver eGov ←
16:28:06 <PhilA> for example following events like the Tsunami
for example following events like the Tsunami ←
16:28:52 <PhilA> ... recently govt. set extra budget how to restructure Japanese local govt. systems using eGov tech
... recently govt. set extra budget how to restructure Japanese local govt. systems using eGov tech ←
16:29:05 <Jeanne_> Phil Archer is speaking
Jeanne Holm: Phil Archer is speaking ←
16:29:20 <olyerickson> PhilA is "not Sandro..."
John Erickson: PhilA is "not Sandro..." ←
16:29:29 <Jeanne_> Phil is here in place of Sandro, who has been ill. Works on eGov issues and will share today
Jeanne Holm: Phil is here in place of Sandro, who has been ill. Works on eGov issues and will share today ←
16:29:31 <olyerickson> ... member of team
John Erickson: ... member of team ←
16:29:46 <somnath> q+
Somnath Chandra: q+ ←
16:29:54 <Jeanne_> Phil needs to be nice to Jason (pass him a candy bar)
Jeanne Holm: Phil needs to be nice to Jason (pass him a candy bar) ←
16:30:00 <olyerickson> ... support Jeanne
John Erickson: ... support Jeanne ←
16:30:04 <olyerickson> ... be face ofw3c
John Erickson: ... be face ofw3c ←
16:30:04 <olyerickson> ... duties: being v.v.nice to Jason
John Erickson: ... duties: being v.v.nice to Jason ←
16:30:06 <Jeanne_> He's the face of the W3C
Jeanne Holm: He's the face of the W3C ←
16:30:13 <olyerickson> q?
John Erickson: q? ←
16:30:47 <somnath> I am somnath working with Govt of India Can share Govt of India Experience on E-Gov
Somnath Chandra: I am somnath working with Govt of India Can share Govt of India Experience on E-Gov ←
16:30:59 <PhilA> somnath: You wanted to talk?
Somnath Chandra: You wanted to talk? ←
16:31:06 <somnath> yes pl
Somnath Chandra: yes pl ←
16:31:23 <Jeanne_> Hang on somnath, to you in a moment
Jeanne Holm: Hang on somnath, to you in a moment ←
16:31:31 <PhilA> olyerickson: I'm John Ericson.Done lost of project management related to linking govbt data
John Erickson: I'm John Ericson.Done lost of project management related to linking govbt data ←
16:31:59 <sandro> somnath, are you only on IRC, or are you on the phone, too?
Sandro Hawke: somnath, are you only on IRC, or are you on the phone, too? ←
16:32:00 <PhilA> related to our LOGD portal, int giovt search application (has 500K+ data sets on it) plus other things we've done
related to our LOGD portal, int giovt search application (has 500K+ data sets on it) plus other things we've done ←
16:32:27 <PhilA> olyerickson: Also in the GLD WG with George T and bhyland
John Erickson: Also in the GLD WG with George T and bhyland ←
16:32:38 <PhilA> ... go back to digital rights management from mid 90s
... go back to digital rights management from mid 90s ←
16:32:53 <somnath> on irc only
Somnath Chandra: on irc only ←
16:32:54 <PhilA> ... persistent interest in Web infratsture supporting rights in differnet perspectives
... persistent interest in Web infratsture supporting rights in differnet perspectives ←
16:33:11 <PhilA> ... wants to attach provenance data
... wants to attach provenance data ←
16:33:34 <PhilA> ... how do we improve the infrastructure to do participator government
... how do we improve the infrastructure to do participator government ←
16:33:44 <PhilA> Ack somnath
Ack somnath ←
16:33:48 <PhilA> Somnath NOW
Somnath NOW ←
16:33:55 <Jeanne_> Somnath--did you have a question?
Jeanne Holm: Somnath--did you have a question? ←
16:34:42 <somnath> Not right now but can share Govt of India E-Gov roll out experience and its challenges
Somnath Chandra: Not right now but can share Govt of India E-Gov roll out experience and its challenges ←
16:34:55 <Jeanne_> Perfect! Hadley will be leading that session!
Jeanne Holm: Perfect! Hadley will be leading that session! ←
16:35:06 <PhilA> sandro: Hi
Sandro Hawke: Hi ←
16:35:21 <PhilA> I'm normally the Team Contact but not able to travel
I'm normally the Team Contact but not able to travel ←
16:35:45 <PhilA> sandro: interests and background in linked data, done it for years. In GLD where I'm Team Contact too
Sandro Hawke: interests and background in linked data, done it for years. In GLD where I'm Team Contact too ←
16:36:04 <Paola> can you hear me
Paola Di Maio: can you hear me ←
16:36:05 <PhilA> Paola: Hi I'm Paola di Milo
Paola Di Maio: Hi I'm Paola di Milo ←
16:36:07 <PhilA> No
No ←
16:36:08 <Paola> muted
Paola Di Maio: muted ←
16:36:10 <PhilA> we can't hear you
we can't hear you ←
16:36:20 <PhilA> I just guessed that what you;d say
I just guessed that what you;d say ←
16:36:35 <PhilA> Paola: I'm in the UK. I know a few of you
Paola Di Maio: I'm in the UK. I know a few of you ←
16:36:42 <PhilA> ... interested in systems, social systems
... interested in systems, social systems ←
16:36:49 <PhilA> ... been looking at infrastructure
... been looking at infrastructure ←
16:37:10 <PhilA> ... just come back from conf. in Germany launching a new institute in this area
... just come back from conf. in Germany launching a new institute in this area ←
16:37:26 <HadleyBeeman> My apologies, Paola— which org are you working with?
Hadley Beeman: My apologies, Paola— which org are you working with? ←
16:37:50 <PhilA> bhyland: Hi, I'm Bernadette Hyland. Have been working in linked data since about 2007 with LoC
Bernadette Hyland: Hi, I'm Bernadette Hyland. Have been working in linked data since about 2007 with LoC ←
16:37:53 <Zakim> + +1.847.699.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.847.699.aabb ←
16:37:57 <PhilA> ... work with gov primnting office
... work with gov primnting office ←
16:38:10 <PhilA> ... docs created by Congress go to 1200 libraries around the country and so on.
... docs created by Congress go to 1200 libraries around the country and so on. ←
16:38:21 <PhilA> ... currently work with US EPA
... currently work with US EPA ←
16:38:28 <Paola> HadleyL I am with university of strathclyde for another couple of months til my contract finishes, but work freelance and have started own independent research institution ISTCS.org
Paola Di Maio: HadleyL I am with university of strathclyde for another couple of months til my contract finishes, but work freelance and have started own independent research institution ISTCS.org ←
16:38:43 <bhyland> www.w3.org/2011/gld/charter
Bernadette Hyland: www.w3.org/2011/gld/charter ←
16:38:46 <PhilA> ... work with George Thomas on the GLD WG
... work with George Thomas on the GLD WG ←
16:38:53 <HadleyBeeman> Paola Brilliant, thanks! :) I'm sorry we haven't run into each other in the UK.
Hadley Beeman: Paola Brilliant, thanks! :) I'm sorry we haven't run into each other in the UK. ←
16:39:05 <PhilA> bhyland: we have a 2 year charter. 39 members. >50% are non-US
Bernadette Hyland: we have a 2 year charter. 39 members. >50% are non-US ←
16:39:20 <Paola> Hadley: I think we may have met briefly at OpenGov Camp in London 2010, I remember your voice
Hadley Beeman: I think we may have met briefly at OpenGov Camp in London 2010, I remember your voice [ Scribe Assist by Paola Di Maio ] ←
16:39:46 <PhilA> bhyland: Just back from Warsaw. Sorry I can't be in Santa Clara
Bernadette Hyland: Just back from Warsaw. Sorry I can't be in Santa Clara ←
16:40:00 <HadleyBeeman> Oh good, Paola. I'm sorry I didn't attach my memory of your face to your voice. :)
Hadley Beeman: Oh good, Paola. I'm sorry I didn't attach my memory of your face to your voice. :) ←
16:41:19 <PhilA> Kevin: I'm Kevin, in Chicago. Virtual world provider. I follow data.gov and support the work very much
Kevin Simkins: I'm Kevin, in Chicago. Virtual world provider. I follow data.gov and support the work very much ←
16:41:29 <PhilA> somnath - can you introduce yourself?
somnath - can you introduce yourself? ←
16:41:30 <Jeanne_> Somnath, can you introduce yourself?
Jeanne Holm: Somnath, can you introduce yourself? ←
16:42:56 <Jeanne_> Kevin provides and works with 3D immersive virtual worlds (like Second Life, but many others)
Jeanne Holm: Kevin provides and works with 3D immersive virtual worlds (like Second Life, but many others) ←
16:43:06 <Jeanne_> He provides training and other scenarios
Jeanne Holm: He provides training and other scenarios ←
16:43:32 <PhilA> Jeanne_: Topic: how the meeting is going to work
Jeanne Holm: Topic: how the meeting is going to work ←
16:43:42 <PhilA> Jeanne_: I want to capture people's ideas as they come in.
Jeanne Holm: I want to capture people's ideas as they come in. ←
16:44:14 <PhilA> Gha! Shut my browser by mistake
Gha! Shut my browser by mistake ←
16:44:17 <dmcallis> +1 on "what do we want to do?"
Dave McAllister: +1 on "what do we want to do?" ←
16:44:31 <olyerickson> Jeanne: Want to allow for braiinstorming, want to discuss things we want to do
Jeanne Holm: Want to allow for braiinstorming, want to discuss things we want to do [ Scribe Assist by John Erickson ] ←
16:44:42 <PhilA> Jeanne_: I want to do a couple of things in the room and then try and recreate those on the phone
Jeanne Holm: I want to do a couple of things in the room and then try and recreate those on the phone ←
16:44:48 <olyerickson> ... write down thoughts on blue-colored cards
John Erickson: ... write down thoughts on blue-colored cards ←
16:45:46 <PhilA> Jeanne_: If you're on the phone/IRC - can you please use the IRC to post notes to the meeting
Jeanne Holm: If you're on the phone/IRC - can you please use the IRC to post notes to the meeting ←
16:46:13 <bhyland> How about BLUE CARD:
Bernadette Hyland: How about BLUE CARD: ←
16:46:14 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: Especially where those thoughts are tangential or off-topic (to not disrupt the conversation), put them on the wall to be collected later.
Jeanne Holm: Especially where those thoughts are tangential or off-topic (to not disrupt the conversation), put them on the wall to be collected later. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
16:46:21 <PhilA> ... use all caps "CARD" and then write your idea
... use all caps "CARD" and then write your idea ←
16:46:35 <PhilA> ... as in CARD: I'd like to talk about...
... as in CARD: I'd like to talk about... ←
16:46:45 <bhyland> Does Jeanne plan to use different color cards? Or just blue?
Bernadette Hyland: Does Jeanne plan to use different color cards? Or just blue? ←
16:47:33 <PhilA> PhilA: I have a yellow card
Phil Archer: I have a yellow card ←
16:47:43 <PhilA> ... and I can see pink ones too
... and I can see pink ones too ←
16:47:44 <bhyland> got it.
Bernadette Hyland: got it. ←
16:47:53 <bhyland> CARD it is.
Bernadette Hyland: CARD it is. ←
16:51:34 <PhilA> PhilA: My slides are at http://www.w3.org/2011/Talks/TPAC/phila/intro.html#(1)
Phil Archer: My slides are at http://www.w3.org/2011/Talks/TPAC/phila/intro.html#(1) ←
16:56:40 <PhilA> http://philarcher.org/diary/2011/20yearsofmlarchives/
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
http://philarcher.org/diary/2011/20yearsofmlarchives/ ←
16:57:14 <bhyland> That is great Phil - cool.
Bernadette Hyland: That is great Phil - cool. ←
16:58:16 <PhilA> Jeanne_: This group was chartered first in 2008
Jeanne Holm: This group was chartered first in 2008 ←
16:58:47 <PhilA> dmcallis: when this group first formed, it was to identify how the Web can be used to make the work of govts more tranbsparent
Dave McAllister: when this group first formed, it was to identify how the Web can be used to make the work of govts more tranbsparent ←
16:59:02 <PhilA> ... how to we get govts to do this and how do we get citizens to respond
... how to we get govts to do this and how do we get citizens to respond ←
16:59:07 <PhilA> ... had a very active group
... had a very active group ←
16:59:22 <PhilA> dmcallis: Linked deata was identified as being very important
Dave McAllister: Linked deata was identified as being very important ←
16:59:48 <PhilA> dmcallis: there was a doc in June 2009 ? that talked about what needed to be done
Dave McAllister: there was a doc in June 2009 ? that talked about what needed to be done ←
17:00:09 <PhilA> ... originally talked about documents, social media, AV approaches
... originally talked about documents, social media, AV approaches ←
17:00:30 <olyerickson> Original W3G eGov charter (2009-2010) here: http://www.w3.org/2009/06/eGov/ig-charter
John Erickson: Original W3G eGov charter (2009-2010) here: http://www.w3.org/2009/06/eGov/ig-charter ←
17:01:18 <PhilA> Jeanne_: you tried to avoid figuring out the one perfect solution...
Jeanne Holm: you tried to avoid figuring out the one perfect solution... ←
17:02:01 <PhilA> dmcallis: I do work for Adobe ,-) the first set of docs said "we need docs to be able to be repurposed like PDF" - I had to take that out!
Dave McAllister: I do work for Adobe ,-) the first set of docs said "we need docs to be able to be repurposed like PDF" - I had to take that out! ←
17:02:14 <PhilA> dmcallis: there were other things, like DRM etc
Dave McAllister: there were other things, like DRM etc ←
17:02:27 <PhilA> ... huge issues around suing RDF, Dublin Core
... huge issues around suing RDF, Dublin Core ←
17:02:36 <PhilA> ... need to be careful not to condemn a technology
... need to be careful not to condemn a technology ←
17:02:56 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: we have a lot of trouble in UK with govt data published as Jpegs
Hadley Beeman: we have a lot of trouble in UK with govt data published as Jpegs ←
17:03:20 <PhilA> dmcallis: most of the problems 3200-1 and 2 owns PDF, not Adobe
Dave McAllister: most of the problems 3200-1 and 2 owns PDF, not Adobe ←
17:03:33 <olyerickson> q+
John Erickson: q+ ←
17:03:41 <PhilA> ... we should use the most appropriate tech
... we should use the most appropriate tech ←
17:03:58 <PhilA> dmcallis: that was a big part of the first round. people saying "you should never use..."
Dave McAllister: that was a big part of the first round. people saying "you should never use..." ←
17:04:00 <PhilA> ack olyerickson
ack olyerickson ←
17:04:09 <PhilA> olyerickson: I can only imagine the anguish you went through
John Erickson: I can only imagine the anguish you went through ←
17:04:44 <PhilA> olyerickson: how do we avoid boiling the ocean. Focussing on the problems - not imagine problems that are projections of how technologies can be used
John Erickson: how do we avoid boiling the ocean. Focussing on the problems - not imagine problems that are projections of how technologies can be used ←
17:05:00 <PhilA> ... current existence of the GLD WG is an example of your success. What else can we do
... current existence of the GLD WG is an example of your success. What else can we do ←
17:05:14 <bhyland> Clarification re: PDF - "PDF is an international standard, PDF 1.7 (ISO 32000-1)"
Bernadette Hyland: Clarification re: PDF - "PDF is an international standard, PDF 1.7 (ISO 32000-1)" ←
17:05:50 <PhilA> dmcallis: the charter 1 - charter 2 cycle, we identified that we need to look at how we represent, say, a speech - but that's not fair a representation
Dave McAllister: the charter 1 - charter 2 cycle, we identified that we need to look at how we represent, say, a speech - but that's not fair a representation ←
17:06:03 <PhilA> ... social media now use soc media as a principal comm method
... social media now use soc media as a principal comm method ←
17:06:35 <PhilA> ... within this body, we represent what we think the citizens can best use
... within this body, we represent what we think the citizens can best use ←
17:07:05 <PhilA> ... does the average person care that they can link real estate records to weather records. Some people do of course, but most don't and how do we connect those two?
... does the average person care that they can link real estate records to weather records. Some people do of course, but most don't and how do we connect those two? ←
17:07:36 <PhilA> ... LD became important because it's how you expose data. Risk is that it goes too far, i..e. takes commnets out of context
... LD became important because it's how you expose data. Risk is that it goes too far, i..e. takes commnets out of context ←
17:07:58 <PhilA> ... one of my topics is how what we do can represent the communities the gov is trying to reach
... one of my topics is how what we do can represent the communities the gov is trying to reach ←
17:08:21 <PhilA> sandro: I didn't join until the point at which the 2nd charter was being worked ojn
Sandro Hawke: I didn't join until the point at which the 2nd charter was being worked ojn ←
17:08:31 <PhilA> rrsagent, draft minutes
rrsagent, draft minutes ←
17:08:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-egov-minutes.html PhilA
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-egov-minutes.html PhilA ←
17:08:37 <dmcallis> the original doc is http://www.w3.org/TR/egov-improving/
Dave McAllister: the original doc is http://www.w3.org/TR/egov-improving/ ←
17:09:00 <PhilA> Jeanne_: This group was re-chartered in June of this year. After the beginings of the GLD WG
Jeanne Holm: This group was re-chartered in June of this year. After the beginings of the GLD WG ←
17:09:14 <PhilA> ... that's going really fast and making progress
... that's going really fast and making progress ←
17:09:38 <PhilA> ... a lot of the conversations that we were having in the IG became non-conversations as the GLD WG was taking it on
... a lot of the conversations that we were having in the IG became non-conversations as the GLD WG was taking it on ←
17:09:52 <PhilA> ... therefore our group can work without singling out a tech or a solution
... therefore our group can work without singling out a tech or a solution ←
17:10:03 <PhilA> ... we had a variety of open discussions
... we had a variety of open discussions ←
17:10:10 <PhilA> ... we can make statements about things
... we can make statements about things ←
17:10:21 <PhilA> ... we can partner with WGs if needs be
... we can partner with WGs if needs be ←
17:10:51 <PhilA> ... we want to move beyond the technologies. We have technologists, elected people, practictioners, academics
... we want to move beyond the technologies. We have technologists, elected people, practictioners, academics ←
17:11:12 <PhilA> ... and we have folk from otehr standards bodies
... and we have folk from otehr standards bodies ←
17:11:26 <PhilA> Kevin: we have just recently had our Project Stargate
Kevin Simkins: we have just recently had our Project Stargate ←
17:11:42 <PhilA> ... a trans communication between virutal worlds
... a trans communication between virutal worlds ←
17:11:56 <PhilA> ... new standards for networking and ??
... new standards for networking and ?? ←
17:12:22 <PhilA> ... for linking identities - we have new ways of doing that. Demos available from IEEE at Kevin
... for linking identities - we have new ways of doing that. Demos available from IEEE at Kevin ←
17:12:29 <dmcallis> I recall a project stargate from US gov on psychic phenom
Dave McAllister: I recall a project stargate from US gov on psychic phenom ←
17:12:35 <PhilA> Present+ Jeff Jaffe
Present+ Jeff Jaffe ←
17:12:57 <Jeanne_> That's Kevin Simkins talking with IEEE standards on virtual worlds
Jeanne Holm: That's Kevin Simkins talking with IEEE standards on virtual worlds ←
17:13:16 <PhilA> present+ Kevin Simkins
present+ Kevin Simkins ←
17:14:14 <PhilA> olyerickson: I'll provoke the soc media piece this afternoon
John Erickson: I'll provoke the soc media piece this afternoon ←
17:14:21 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I'll scribe that then
Hadley Beeman: I'll scribe that then ←
17:14:48 <PhilA> olyerickson: It would be great of Kevin could lead that but, by remote, can you be here?
John Erickson: It would be great of Kevin could lead that but, by remote, can you be here? ←
17:15:32 <Jeanne_> CARD : Be sure to look broadly at social media in the discussion later today
Jeanne Holm: CARD : Be sure to look broadly at social media in the discussion later today ←
17:16:13 <HadleyBeeman> CARD : can we discuss licensing in the social media discussion too? We have groups in UK gov who default to "All rights reserved" (erroneously) when publishing content on social networks.
Hadley Beeman: CARD : can we discuss licensing in the social media discussion too? We have groups in UK gov who default to "All rights reserved" (erroneously) when publishing content on social networks. ←
17:16:57 <PhilA> Jeanne_: we have the folk that turn up to our meetings, we have the mailing list and we have the linkedin Group
Jeanne Holm: we have the folk that turn up to our meetings, we have the mailing list and we have the linkedin Group ←
17:17:05 <PhilA> Jeanne_: I'm approving 20 people a week
Jeanne Holm: I'm approving 20 people a week ←
17:17:41 <Jeanne_> CARD : Collect the resources of everyone's social media network
Jeanne Holm: CARD : Collect the resources of everyone's social media network ←
17:17:41 <PhilA> W3C linkedIn group is at http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1800648&trk=myg_ugrp_ovr
W3C linkedIn group is at http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1800648&trk=myg_ugrp_ovr ←
17:18:08 <PhilA> Jeanne_: we all have some sort of social media presence eithger personally or professionally (or both)
Jeanne Holm: we all have some sort of social media presence eithger personally or professionally (or both) ←
17:18:26 <PhilA> Jeanne_: we should use that to reach new people
Jeanne Holm: we should use that to reach new people ←
17:19:48 <PhilA> Jeanne_: Want to come out of these 2 days with a set of actions.
Jeanne Holm: Want to come out of these 2 days with a set of actions. ←
17:19:57 <PhilA> ... want to be able to use our wiki etc
... want to be able to use our wiki etc ←
17:20:04 <PhilA> ... aggressively
... aggressively ←
17:20:09 <PhilA> dmcallis: +1
Dave McAllister: +1 ←
17:20:59 <PhilA> Jeanne_: Let's go to the phone
Jeanne Holm: Let's go to the phone ←
17:21:16 <bhyland> No comments from me
Bernadette Hyland: No comments from me ←
17:21:16 <olyerickson> "here here, here..."
John Erickson: "here here, here..." ←
17:21:17 <PhilA> ... do you have any thoughts on the previous group, interaction with W3C, currente intent and charter?
... do you have any thoughts on the previous group, interaction with W3C, currente intent and charter? ←
17:21:25 <olyerickson> -1 to hmmming to vote
John Erickson: -1 to hmmming to vote ←
17:21:27 <olyerickson> zakim, who is on the phone?
John Erickson: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
17:21:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Paola, tpac, bhyland, +1.847.699.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Sandro, Paola, tpac, bhyland, +1.847.699.aabb ←
17:21:32 <PhilA> bhyland? Paola?
bhyland? Paola? ←
17:21:39 <bhyland> Nothing more to add.
Bernadette Hyland: Nothing more to add. ←
17:21:43 <dmcallis> I would like to see a discussion towards the end on what other sub groups are required
Dave McAllister: I would like to see a discussion towards the end on what other sub groups are required ←
17:21:54 <olyerickson> Could "+1.847.699.aabb" please identify?
John Erickson: Could "+1.847.699.aabb" please identify? ←
17:22:12 <Jeanne_> CARD : Dave McAllister: I would like to see a discussion towards the end on what other sub groups are required
Jeanne Holm: CARD : Dave McAllister: I would like to see a discussion towards the end on what other sub groups are required ←
17:22:20 <Paola> sorry was that a q
Paola Di Maio: sorry was that a q ←
17:22:20 <bhyland> I had input into the eGov IG & GLD WG charters :-)
Bernadette Hyland: I had input into the eGov IG & GLD WG charters :-) ←
17:22:42 <PhilA> zakim, aabb is Kevin Simkins
zakim, aabb is Kevin Simkins ←
17:22:42 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aabb is Kevin Simkins', PhilA
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'aabb is Kevin Simkins', PhilA ←
17:22:44 <Paola> nothing to add, thanks
Paola Di Maio: nothing to add, thanks ←
17:22:50 <olyerickson> q?
John Erickson: q? ←
17:23:12 <PhilA> zakim, aabb is Kevin Simkins
zakim, aabb is Kevin Simkins ←
17:23:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aabb is Kevin Simkins', PhilA
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'aabb is Kevin Simkins', PhilA ←
17:24:03 <PhilA> Accessibility and social media switching around.
Accessibility and social media switching around. ←
17:24:16 <PhilA> so we'll so accessibility this afternoon and soc media tomorrow morning
so we'll so accessibility this afternoon and soc media tomorrow morning ←
17:25:05 <olyerickson> +1 to break
John Erickson: +1 to break ←
17:25:33 <dmcallis> +1 break
Dave McAllister: +1 break ←
17:25:51 <PhilA> Jeanne_: Break until 10:45
Jeanne Holm: Break until 10:45 ←
17:25:52 <Paola> thank you scribe
Paola Di Maio: thank you scribe ←
17:26:23 <Paola> gave a nice break you lucky people in California, catcha later
Paola Di Maio: gave a nice break you lucky people in California, catcha later ←
17:26:24 <Zakim> -Kevin_Simkins
Zakim IRC Bot: -Kevin_Simkins ←
17:26:29 <sandro> topic: Coffee Break
17:26:31 <Zakim> -bhyland
Zakim IRC Bot: -bhyland ←
17:26:40 <Zakim> -Paola
Zakim IRC Bot: -Paola ←
17:27:21 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
17:27:55 <Paola> zakim, how do I ping people in private message mode on this system
Paola Di Maio: zakim, how do I ping people in private message mode on this system ←
17:27:55 <Zakim> I don't understand you, Paola
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand you, Paola ←
17:29:08 <sandro> Paola, on irc it's usually "/msg sandro this is private to sandro" but it depends on your IRC client.
Sandro Hawke: Paola, on irc it's usually "/msg sandro this is private to sandro" but it depends on your IRC client. ←
17:45:02 <Zakim> +bhyland
(No events recorded for 15 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: +bhyland ←
17:47:55 <Zakim> +Kevin_Simkins
Zakim IRC Bot: +Kevin_Simkins ←
17:48:59 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
17:52:05 <PhilA> scribe: HadleyBeeman
(Scribe set to Hadley Beeman)
17:52:50 <Jeanne_> Shall we reconvene?
Jeanne Holm: Shall we reconvene? ←
17:52:53 <PhilA> Web client is available through http://irc.w3.org/
Phil Archer: Web client is available through http://irc.w3.org/ ←
17:53:16 <olyerickson> zaim, did you have a nice break?
John Erickson: zakim, did you have a nice break? ←
17:53:26 <olyerickson> s/zaim/zakim/
17:53:45 <HadleyBeeman> Olyerickson: Web client for IRC is often available when other clients can't get through the right ports
John Erickson: Web client for IRC is often available when other clients can't get through the right ports ←
17:54:14 <HadleyBeeman> Topic: Reports from the Open Government Data Camp (OGDCamp)
17:54:34 <Jeanne_> Open Knowledge Foundation: http://vimeo.com/21711338
Jeanne Holm: Open Knowledge Foundation: http://vimeo.com/21711338 ←
17:54:58 <Jeanne_> European Commissioner VP Kroes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gBUpUD4l1Wo
Jeanne Holm: European Commissioner VP Kroes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gBUpUD4l1Wo ←
17:55:18 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: Introducing the event, two weeks ago in Warsaw. Keynotes from the Open Knowledge Foundation and the Nellie Kroes, European Commissioner for Digital
Jeanne Holm: Introducing the event, two weeks ago in Warsaw. Keynotes from the Open Knowledge Foundation and the Nellie Kroes, European Commissioner for Digital ←
17:55:47 <HadleyBeeman> … Our conversation: the strategic directions for government open data that we know about, and share those. (Later session will be on specific implementations)
… Our conversation: the strategic directions for government open data that we know about, and share those. (Later session will be on specific implementations) ←
17:56:42 <HadleyBeeman> … In the US, there is a focus on benefits of open data. Past examples (GPS, weather data), current examples we can infer (health), and future possibilities. Innovation leads to economic growth and jobs.
… In the US, there is a focus on benefits of open data. Past examples (GPS, weather data), current examples we can infer (health), and future possibilities. Innovation leads to economic growth and jobs. ←
17:57:22 <HadleyBeeman> … Also, it promotes transparency. Makes the Freedom of Information process less complicated, and required less.
… Also, it promotes transparency. Makes the Freedom of Information process less complicated, and required less. ←
17:58:29 <olyerickson> CARD : How do "FOI" policies/practices vary in regions outside USA?
John Erickson: CARD : How do "FOI" policies/practices vary in regions outside USA? ←
17:58:29 <HadleyBeeman> … There is a lot of technology that falls from those directions. Open linked data, API catalogues, ability to aggregate data and cross-correlate it (esp from different agencies).
… There is a lot of technology that falls from those directions. Open linked data, API catalogues, ability to aggregate data and cross-correlate it (esp from different agencies). ←
17:59:01 <HadleyBeeman> Olyerickson: give me a min- the EC have just published a review of it in 80 countries
John Erickson: give me a min- the EC have just published a review of it in 80 countries ←
17:59:19 <Jeanne_> Hadley: From the UK, our open data is underpinned by three main objectives:
Hadley Beeman: From the UK, our open data is underpinned by three main objectives: [ Scribe Assist by Jeanne Holm ] ←
17:59:26 <Jeanne_> 1) relationship between citizen and government
Jeanne Holm: 1) relationship between citizen and government ←
17:59:38 <Jeanne_> 2) better use of government resources and data and cost efficiencies
Jeanne Holm: 2) better use of government resources and data and cost efficiencies ←
17:59:51 <Jeanne_> 3) potential for innovation and efficiencies in the public sector
Jeanne Holm: 3) potential for innovation and efficiencies in the public sector ←
18:00:05 <Jeanne_> Allows goverrnment to be a more efficient user and provider of data
Jeanne Holm: Allows goverrnment to be a more efficient user and provider of data ←
18:00:22 <Jeanne_> Phil Archer: We had a recent switch of government
Jeanne Holm: Phil Archer: We had a recent switch of government ←
18:00:27 <Jeanne_> and open data survived
Jeanne Holm: and open data survived ←
18:00:36 <olyerickson> [fyi] Wikipedia summary of "FOI" policies for 85+ countries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_information_legislation
John Erickson: [fyi] Wikipedia summary of "FOI" policies for 85+ countries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_information_legislation ←
18:01:40 <Jeanne_> We have a now right wing government and now they are promoting not just economics but transparency as well
Jeanne Holm: We have a now right wing government and now they are promoting not just economics but transparency as well ←
18:01:47 <Jeanne_> Thanks John
Jeanne Holm: Thanks John ←
18:02:02 <Jeanne_> So the question is what happens when data is leaked vs. made open?
Jeanne Holm: So the question is what happens when data is leaked vs. made open? ←
18:02:34 <HadleyBeeman> Davemc: there is a fine line between publishing and leaking data.
Dave McAllister: there is a fine line between publishing and leaking data. ←
18:02:34 <olyerickson> [fyi] RE EU FOI summaries, see also http://www.statewatch.org/foi/foi.htm
John Erickson: [fyi] RE EU FOI summaries, see also http://www.statewatch.org/foi/foi.htm ←
18:02:49 <HadleyBeeman> Davemc: provenance of leaked data is also of question
Dave McAllister: provenance of leaked data is also of question ←
18:03:21 <HadleyBeeman> The world's FOIs at a glance : http://epsiplatform.eu/content/worlds-foias-glance
The world's FOIs at a glance : http://epsiplatform.eu/content/worlds-foias-glance ←
18:04:19 <HadleyBeeman> Olyerickson: Q: when data.gov.uk first went online, it was data-consumer driven. Process by which users could request data (less formally that FOIA requests). Provided guidance for data managers.
John Erickson: Q: when data.gov.uk first went online, it was data-consumer driven. Process by which users could request data (less formally that FOIA requests). Provided guidance for data managers. ←
18:04:34 <HadleyBeeman> … how has that played out over the last 18 months?
… how has that played out over the last 18 months? ←
18:04:56 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: FOI is still a big part of open data.
Hadley Beeman: FOI is still a big part of open data. [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
18:05:11 <PhilA> ... scalability is an issue, the data.gov.uk is a very small team
Phil Archer: ... scalability is an issue, the data.gov.uk is a very small team ←
18:05:22 <PhilA> ... a big problem is a vocabulary mismatch
Phil Archer: ... a big problem is a vocabulary mismatch ←
18:05:44 <PhilA> ... e.g. Commissioning data in the NHS. You may not know that magic term
Phil Archer: ... e.g. Commissioning data in the NHS. You may not know that magic term ←
18:06:02 <PhilA> ... so my team (linkedgov) is working to make those bridges
Phil Archer: ... so my team (linkedgov) is working to make those bridges ←
18:06:10 <PhilA> ... translating gov speak into natural language
Phil Archer: ... translating gov speak into natural language ←
18:06:35 <PhilA> ... we;re facing a huge challenge of having a huge possible data pool and limited funds
Phil Archer: ... we;re facing a huge challenge of having a huge possible data pool and limited funds ←
18:06:47 <PhilA> ... people don't know what's possible
Phil Archer: ... people don't know what's possible ←
18:06:53 <PhilA> ... don't know what question to ask
Phil Archer: ... don't know what question to ask ←
18:07:02 <Jeanne_> CARD : Several people have asked for the collection of use cases (stories, benefits, outcomes) around open data
Jeanne Holm: CARD : Several people have asked for the collection of use cases (stories, benefits, outcomes) around open data ←
18:07:46 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: for those on the phone/IRC, any thoughts from your own governments or experiences?
Jeanne Holm: for those on the phone/IRC, any thoughts from your own governments or experiences? ←
18:08:12 <Paola> well, it would help if the data was structured /modelled properly before being encoded/linked
Paola Di Maio: well, it would help if the data was structured /modelled properly before being encoded/linked ←
18:08:16 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
Phil Archer: zakim, who is here? ←
18:08:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see tpac, bhyland, Kevin_Simkins, Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see tpac, bhyland, Kevin_Simkins, Sandro ←
18:08:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see Paola, jkiss, Jeanne_, MoZ, davemc, harlanyu_, PhilA, yosuke, olyerickson, HadleyBeeman, gdick, bhyland, Zakim, RRSAgent, josema, edsu, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Paola, jkiss, Jeanne_, MoZ, davemc, harlanyu_, PhilA, yosuke, olyerickson, HadleyBeeman, gdick, bhyland, Zakim, RRSAgent, josema, edsu, trackbot, sandro ←
18:08:30 <HadleyBeeman> Bhyland: In the USA, we're fortunate to have executive levels of support for open data. There are a number of senior managers in gov who want to see this work.
Bernadette Hyland: In the USA, we're fortunate to have executive levels of support for open data. There are a number of senior managers in gov who want to see this work. ←
18:08:43 <Paola> its the data structures that make the data unusable/expensive
Paola Di Maio: its the data structures that make the data unusable/expensive ←
18:08:54 <HadleyBeeman> … In terms of empowering the people who are data curators and stewards: we have work left to do. Can't all be done by the W3C
… In terms of empowering the people who are data curators and stewards: we have work left to do. Can't all be done by the W3C ←
18:09:40 <HadleyBeeman> … We can learn from other governments who are scoping budgets and concrete deliverables. It can be difficult to do with only once-a-month calls.
… We can learn from other governments who are scoping budgets and concrete deliverables. It can be difficult to do with only once-a-month calls. ←
18:10:05 <HadleyBeeman> … Am I isolated in that observation, or have others found it as well?
… Am I isolated in that observation, or have others found it as well? ←
18:10:18 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: observers are encouraged to participate
Jeanne Holm: observers are encouraged to participate ←
18:11:19 <Paola> have seen two issues with gov data: completely missing, data (the law does not seem to specify what record should be kept, so its discretionary, and bodies are finding ways around saying 'we do nto store thsi info' when its not convenient
Paola Di Maio: have seen two issues with gov data: completely missing, data (the law does not seem to specify what record should be kept, so its discretionary, and bodies are finding ways around saying 'we do nto store thsi info' when its not convenient ←
18:11:42 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA: Frequency of meeting is difficult; we get more momentum when we're face-to-face, and it can die down between meetings.
Phil Archer: Frequency of meeting is difficult; we get more momentum when we're face-to-face, and it can die down between meetings. ←
18:12:07 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: Yes, we want to leave this meeting with clear actions to drive a change in our behaviour.
Jeanne Holm: Yes, we want to leave this meeting with clear actions to drive a change in our behaviour. ←
18:12:11 <Paola> the other issue is datasets which are not well formed/categorized, so that searching is a highly specialised task that required expensive skills
Paola Di Maio: the other issue is datasets which are not well formed/categorized, so that searching is a highly specialised task that required expensive skills ←
18:12:30 <Paola> sorry I am not on the phone but I can get o the phone if that helps
Paola Di Maio: sorry I am not on the phone but I can get o the phone if that helps ←
18:12:39 <olyerickson> +1 Paola; it goes even further w.r.t. proposed changes to e.g. US FOI policies that might enable administration to claim requested data doesn't exist when indeed it does
John Erickson: +1 Paola; it goes even further w.r.t. proposed changes to e.g. US FOI policies that might enable administration to claim requested data doesn't exist when indeed it does ←
18:12:54 <HadleyBeeman> … We may decide to meet at a different frequency; we should follow what the group wants/needs.
… We may decide to meet at a different frequency; we should follow what the group wants/needs. ←
18:13:13 <Paola> yes olyerickson I have heard
Paola Di Maio: yes olyerickson I have heard ←
18:14:08 <HadleyBeeman> Bhyland: Specifically, do any others find strong leadership support, but a vacuum between the people who curate the data (budget, existing ways of working) etc?
Bernadette Hyland: Specifically, do any others find strong leadership support, but a vacuum between the people who curate the data (budget, existing ways of working) etc? ←
18:14:10 <HadleyBeeman> q+
q+ ←
18:14:34 <olyerickson> q+
John Erickson: q+ ←
18:14:41 <PhilA> ack HadleyBeeman
Phil Archer: ack HadleyBeeman ←
18:14:48 <Jeanne_> Hadley: We've found something similar in the UK
Hadley Beeman: We've found something similar in the UK [ Scribe Assist by Jeanne Holm ] ←
18:14:57 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: As you've identified Bernadette, it's a new way of working
Hadley Beeman: As you've identified Bernadette, it's a new way of working [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
18:15:04 <Jeanne_> Hadley: It's a new way of working and a new relationship outside of your organization
Hadley Beeman: It's a new way of working and a new relationship outside of your organization [ Scribe Assist by Jeanne Holm ] ←
18:15:10 <gdick> me/ odd aside. In US, Census Regs refer to Citizens, FOIA to Persons
Gannon Dick: me/ odd aside. In US, Census Regs refer to Citizens, FOIA to Persons ←
18:15:12 <PhilA> ... most data teams are being told "you must publish this stuff" and the team is already overloaded
Phil Archer: ... most data teams are being told "you must publish this stuff" and the team is already overloaded ←
18:15:22 <PhilA> ... the team doesn't see any feedback
Phil Archer: ... the team doesn't see any feedback ←
18:15:23 <Jeanne_> Hadley: It's hard on top of an already committed organization and it's just one more responsibility
Hadley Beeman: It's hard on top of an already committed organization and it's just one more responsibility [ Scribe Assist by Jeanne Holm ] ←
18:15:24 <Paola> so the priority imho is: work with governments to develop adopt best practice, what works best (cost effectiveness is: mandate with legislation for public authoritities to proactively publish datasets which have been standardized that is make compliant with privacy law, then encoded
Paola Di Maio: so the priority imho is: work with governments to develop adopt best practice, what works best (cost effectiveness is: mandate with legislation for public authoritities to proactively publish datasets which have been standardized that is make compliant with privacy law, then encoded ←
18:15:26 <PhilA> ... it's just one more thing to do
Phil Archer: ... it's just one more thing to do ←
18:15:51 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: so we're trying to build a tool that makes it easy for the publishers to see the benefit of what they're doing
Hadley Beeman: so we're trying to build a tool that makes it easy for the publishers to see the benefit of what they're doing [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
18:16:05 <olyerickson> @Paola I think part of this should be brought up during Evangelism/Education discussion tomorrow
John Erickson: @Paola I think part of this should be brought up during Evangelism/Education discussion tomorrow ←
18:16:07 <HadleyBeeman> Bhyland: Agreed, this won't take off until people are getting something back from it (in government)
Bernadette Hyland: Agreed, this won't take off until people are getting something back from it (in government) ←
18:16:40 <HadleyBeeman> Bhyland: Within an agency/authority, I think about how this will help them being more efficient. Most of them have trouble getting info from within their own organisation.
Bernadette Hyland: Within an agency/authority, I think about how this will help them being more efficient. Most of them have trouble getting info from within their own organisation. ←
18:16:40 <Paola> you do that Olyer please, I may not be around, may post a quick note to list for you to refer to
Paola Di Maio: you do that Olyer please, I may not be around, may post a quick note to list for you to refer to ←
18:17:00 <HadleyBeeman> Bhyland: Ex: most people get info about their own org from the external website, not internal resources.
Bernadette Hyland: Ex: most people get info about their own org from the external website, not internal resources. ←
18:17:22 <Paola> bhyland: true
Bernadette Hyland: true [ Scribe Assist by Paola Di Maio ] ←
18:17:23 <olyerickson> q?
John Erickson: q? ←
18:17:36 <HadleyBeeman> Bhyland: How do we make this not just another thing on an already overburdened civil servant's plate?
Bernadette Hyland: How do we make this not just another thing on an already overburdened civil servant's plate? ←
18:17:58 <PhilA> ack olyerickson
Phil Archer: ack olyerickson ←
18:17:59 <HadleyBeeman> Bhyland: It would be great if this group could make progress on that.
Bernadette Hyland: It would be great if this group could make progress on that. ←
18:18:13 <davemc> It seems like we talking about the "marketing" of acceptance.
Dave McAllister: It seems like we talking about the "marketing" of acceptance. ←
18:18:29 <HadleyBeeman> Olyerickson: Paola and I have been talking about this with regard to evangelism and education (tabled for tomorrow).
John Erickson: Paola and I have been talking about this with regard to evangelism and education (tabled for tomorrow). ←
18:18:45 <davemc> we should consider the gamification studies on this, e.g SAPS (Status Achievement, Power, Stuff)
Dave McAllister: we should consider the gamification studies on this, e.g SAPS (Status Achievement, Power, Stuff) ←
18:19:53 <HadleyBeeman> … Much of this have been public/private/academic partnerships. Contact that we (RPI) have had with other govs has been around "Help us! We see what's happening in the UK — prime minister's office, Talis, University of Southampton… We see in the US 3 Round Stones, White House, RPI, etc… Help us figure this out. We recognise it's not just us, but we don't have the knowledge/experience/connections."
… Much of this have been public/private/academic partnerships. Contact that we (RPI) have had with other govs has been around "Help us! We see what's happening in the UK — prime minister's office, Talis, University of Southampton… We see in the US 3 Round Stones, White House, RPI, etc… Help us figure this out. We recognise it's not just us, but we don't have the knowledge/experience/connections." ←
18:20:20 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
18:20:29 <Jeanne_> I like the idea of building a government e-ecosystem
Jeanne Holm: I like the idea of building a government e-ecosystem ←
18:20:49 <HadleyBeeman> … It's about building the ecosystem.
… It's about building the ecosystem. ←
18:20:50 <HadleyBeeman> q+
q+ ←
18:21:06 <PhilA> ack HadleyBeeman
Phil Archer: ack HadleyBeeman ←
18:21:11 <bhyland> John: Gov't/private partnerships is where we see progress. Building the eco-system is what we need to do better. You have to go as a professsional developer/data wrangler, academic, policy people and cross pollinate.
John Erickson: Gov't/private partnerships is where we see progress. Building the eco-system is what we need to do better. You have to go as a professsional developer/data wrangler, academic, policy people and cross pollinate. [ Scribe Assist by Bernadette Hyland ] ←
18:21:22 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: One of the 1st things I did at Linked Gov was to build a map of the people involved
Hadley Beeman: One of the 1st things I did at Linked Gov was to build a map of the people involved [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
18:21:37 <PhilA> ... wanted to show what people got out which, we hope, is more than they put in
Phil Archer: ... wanted to show what people got out which, we hope, is more than they put in ←
18:21:52 <PhilA> ... challenge is to show that their job will be easier if they publish the data
Phil Archer: ... challenge is to show that their job will be easier if they publish the data ←
18:22:01 <bhyland> q+
Bernadette Hyland: q+ ←
18:22:07 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
18:22:28 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_ it's hard to get people motivated when budget cuts are so dramatic. Now, collection is even in jeopardy.
Jeanne_ it's hard to get people motivated when budget cuts are so dramatic. Now, collection is even in jeopardy. ←
18:22:54 <olyerickson> +1 to "map of people involved"; I think this is partly the objective of the Community Directory
John Erickson: +1 to "map of people involved"; I think this is partly the objective of the Community Directory ←
18:23:05 <HadleyBeeman> Davemc: Summary of the points here: we are trying to work with 2 distinct constituencies: people who collect the data,
Dave McAllister: Summary of the points here: we are trying to work with 2 distinct constituencies: people who collect the data, ←
18:23:31 <PhilA> q+
Phil Archer: q+ ←
18:23:37 <HadleyBeeman> …and people who use the data. If we try to lump them together, then we will fail. If we say "the government should do <blah>," it won't work.
…and people who use the data. If we try to lump them together, then we will fail. If we say "the government should do <blah>," it won't work. ←
18:23:54 <olyerickson> No single formula; better, "templates for success"
John Erickson: No single formula; better, "templates for success" ←
18:24:09 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: Multiple audiences here. Government is its own audience, and then there are externals as well.
Jeanne Holm: Multiple audiences here. Government is its own audience, and then there are externals as well. ←
18:25:17 <PhilA> ack bhyland
Phil Archer: ack bhyland ←
18:25:20 <HadleyBeeman> … What has been enchanting is going to an agency and saying "You opened your data, had a hackathon, and have three new apps on it. That's cool. And it has real-world relevance"
… What has been enchanting is going to an agency and saying "You opened your data, had a hackathon, and have three new apps on it. That's cool. And it has real-world relevance" ←
18:25:34 <HadleyBeeman> Bhyland: +1 to davemc's comment segmenting the constituencies here.
Bernadette Hyland: +1 to davemc's comment segmenting the constituencies here. ←
18:25:54 <HadleyBeeman> … to Jeanne_, appreciate the point that it's hard to motivate people (who may be concerned about being furloughed).
… to Jeanne_, appreciate the point that it's hard to motivate people (who may be concerned about being furloughed). ←
18:26:19 <HadleyBeeman> … which creates an ethos of inaction
… which creates an ethos of inaction ←
18:27:17 <HadleyBeeman> … There are many approaches which can help. We show people their data as linked data, show them an application that mimics an architecture that costs $10m+ but is available for 10% of the cost
… There are many approaches which can help. We show people their data as linked data, show them an application that mimics an architecture that costs $10m+ but is available for 10% of the cost ←
18:28:08 <davemc> q+
Dave McAllister: q+ ←
18:28:15 <HadleyBeeman> … It's a tough time to be selling a new way of doing something, but there are still people who want to make a difference. Unless they get support for their managers though, and public exposure at conferences, then we're going to have a problem.
… It's a tough time to be selling a new way of doing something, but there are still people who want to make a difference. Unless they get support for their managers though, and public exposure at conferences, then we're going to have a problem. ←
18:28:47 <davemc> q-
Dave McAllister: q- ←
18:28:49 <olyerickson> ack PhilA
John Erickson: ack PhilA ←
18:28:55 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA: +1 to the comment re showing about showing people being asked to do the extra work that the benefit is to them as individuals.
Phil Archer: +1 to the comment re showing about showing people being asked to do the extra work that the benefit is to them as individuals. ←
18:29:04 <davemc> CARD : Should we have a task force on the business cases?
Dave McAllister: CARD : Should we have a task force on the business cases? ←
18:29:28 <davemc> q+
Dave McAllister: q+ ←
18:29:32 <olyerickson> q+
John Erickson: q+ ←
18:29:35 <HadleyBeeman> … Personally, I get hacked off with constant competitions… It exploits developers. At some point, we will need to pay developers to build really good tools.
… Personally, I get hacked off with constant competitions… It exploits developers. At some point, we will need to pay developers to build really good tools. ←
18:30:09 <davemc> q-
Dave McAllister: q- ←
18:30:33 <bhyland> +1 PhilA, I completely agree. Hackathons are great for some notariety and for the agency / company sponsoring them … but they are 1 of about 20 different tools in the "tool kit" yet they are treated as the *only* tool at time.
Bernadette Hyland: +1 PhilA, I completely agree. Hackathons are great for some notariety and for the agency / company sponsoring them … but they are 1 of about 20 different tools in the "tool kit" yet they are treated as the *only* tool at time. ←
18:30:42 <Paola> sorry havent learned how to get in the speaker q, do I just type q+
Paola Di Maio: sorry havent learned how to get in the speaker q, do I just type q+ ←
18:30:57 <Paola> let me try
Paola Di Maio: let me try ←
18:30:58 <olyerickson> @Paola yes
John Erickson: @Paola yes ←
18:31:01 <davemc> yes, type q then plus
Dave McAllister: yes, type q then plus ←
18:31:04 <Paola> q+
Paola Di Maio: q+ ←
18:31:32 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: A lot of government apps tend to look alike. Ex: our Health 2.0 initiative (non-gov entity), they use the challenge as a proving ground to find partners to work with for a long time.
Jeanne Holm: A lot of government apps tend to look alike. Ex: our Health 2.0 initiative (non-gov entity), they use the challenge as a proving ground to find partners to work with for a long time. ←
18:31:51 <Paola> how do I know when its my turn? is that when the handle turns red?
Paola Di Maio: how do I know when its my turn? is that when the handle turns red? ←
18:32:30 <davemc> Again, there are lessons that we could tap, "status" "open source" development. While we do need to professionalize interfaces, we also do need to allow this to grow organically
Dave McAllister: Again, there are lessons that we could tap, "status" "open source" development. While we do need to professionalize interfaces, we also do need to allow this to grow organically ←
18:32:31 <PhilA> ack olyerickson
Phil Archer: ack olyerickson ←
18:32:39 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: How do we strike a balance between bringing in new ideas and innovations against the concerns around exploiting developers?
Jeanne Holm: How do we strike a balance between bringing in new ideas and innovations against the concerns around exploiting developers? ←
18:33:12 <Paola> thanks bhyland, so basically now that I am in the queue, I can say what I got to say and it will be on record right?
Paola Di Maio: thanks bhyland, so basically now that I am in the queue, I can say what I got to say and it will be on record right? ←
18:33:32 <HadleyBeeman> Olyerickson: 24hr programming contests force a certain kind of visualisation or mash-up into existence that one may not have thought of before. Also, emphasises the fact that creating apps can be like blogging. Short amount of time, low overhead.
John Erickson: 24hr programming contests force a certain kind of visualisation or mash-up into existence that one may not have thought of before. Also, emphasises the fact that creating apps can be like blogging. Short amount of time, low overhead. ←
18:34:03 <davemc> It's the continuation of these mash ups that need to be considered.
Dave McAllister: It's the continuation of these mash ups that need to be considered. ←
18:34:29 <HadleyBeeman> Olyerickson: We've seen it with Ushahidi (from earthquake in Haiti), among others. We need to put a spotlight on these mechanisms. These hackathons have a role.
John Erickson: We've seen it with Ushahidi (from earthquake in Haiti), among others. We need to put a spotlight on these mechanisms. These hackathons have a role. ←
18:34:33 <HadleyBeeman> q+
q+ ←
18:34:59 <davemc> q+
Dave McAllister: q+ ←
18:35:09 <HadleyBeeman> Olyerickson: forces the developer community to learn new things in a hurry as well
John Erickson: forces the developer community to learn new things in a hurry as well ←
18:35:18 <HadleyBeeman> ack Paola
ack Paola ←
18:35:22 <bhyland> s/Paolo/Paola
Bernadette Hyland: s/Paolo/Paola (warning: replacement failed) ←
18:35:30 <HadleyBeeman> Paola, did you have a comment?
Paola, did you have a comment? ←
18:35:49 <HadleyBeeman> s/Paolo/Paola
s/Paolo/Paola (warning: replacement failed) ←
18:36:06 <PhilA> ack HadleyBeeman
Phil Archer: ack HadleyBeeman ←
18:36:51 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I'm finding a community around Rewired State http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=rewired%2Bstate&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Frewiredstate.org%2F&ei=vOquTqaVOKGQiALCopTzCg&usg=AFQjCNGdDKABcYAbUjEwMe4SEUoKJGlkhw
Hadley Beeman: I'm finding a community around Rewired State http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=rewired%2Bstate&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Frewiredstate.org%2F&ei=vOquTqaVOKGQiALCopTzCg&usg=AFQjCNGdDKABcYAbUjEwMe4SEUoKJGlkhw [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
18:37:23 <PhilA> I meant http://rewiredstate.org/
Phil Archer: I meant http://rewiredstate.org/ ←
18:37:38 <PhilA> ack dm
Phil Archer: ack dm ←
18:38:08 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman: we've had trouble with developers feeling burnt out, and focusing on accountability stuff or visualisations. Harder to motivate them to build products and businesses (they've developed habits)
Hadley Beeman: we've had trouble with developers feeling burnt out, and focusing on accountability stuff or visualisations. Harder to motivate them to build products and businesses (they've developed habits) ←
18:38:29 <HadleyBeeman> Davemc: apps don't continue past the event. We need to find ways for them to become self-sustaining.
Dave McAllister: apps don't continue past the event. We need to find ways for them to become self-sustaining. ←
18:38:36 <bhyland> Davemc: Hackathons are great. But how do we make them self-sustaining? How do we keep up the momentum?
Dave McAllister: Hackathons are great. But how do we make them self-sustaining? How do we keep up the momentum? [ Scribe Assist by Bernadette Hyland ] ←
18:38:55 <olyerickson> +1 *great* point about sustainability of hackathon artifacts/learninga/outcomes
John Erickson: +1 *great* point about sustainability of hackathon artifacts/learninga/outcomes ←
18:39:06 <HadleyBeeman> Davemc: a sub-task-force task: why should a company choose to do this? Why should a company choose to do this? We're missing the ongoing implementation.
Dave McAllister: a sub-task-force task: why should a company choose to do this? Why should a company choose to do this? We're missing the ongoing implementation. ←
18:39:12 <bhyland> +1 Davemc
Bernadette Hyland: +1 Davemc ←
18:39:19 <davemc> q-
Dave McAllister: q- ←
18:40:02 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: NASA have done a lot of challenges. Just had a Green Flight challenge (fuel efficient plane) for $1.3m prize. winner: moved 200 miles for 0.5 gallons of gas per person.
Jeanne Holm: NASA have done a lot of challenges. Just had a Green Flight challenge (fuel efficient plane) for $1.3m prize. winner: moved 200 miles for 0.5 gallons of gas per person. ←
18:40:14 <davemc> green flight == "pedal faster"
Dave McAllister: green flight == "pedal faster" ←
18:40:45 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: NASA's international space apps challenge is coming. Now: a call for what kind of data people would want to use.
Jeanne Holm: NASA's international space apps challenge is coming. Now: a call for what kind of data people would want to use. ←
18:40:51 <bhyland> The issue of how to do sustainable "Envisioning" (not my word) that is based on open data + action of producing useful application + keeping up momentum to fund actual deployment + announcement.
Bernadette Hyland: The issue of how to do sustainable "Envisioning" (not my word) that is based on open data + action of producing useful application + keeping up momentum to fund actual deployment + announcement. ←
18:42:08 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: NASA doesn't run their events. Partnered with Google and Microsoft for Random Hacks of Kindness. Helps with the sustainability.
Jeanne Holm: NASA doesn't run their events. Partnered with Google and Microsoft for Random Hacks of Kindness. Helps with the sustainability. ←
18:42:12 <olyerickson> [fyi] Obama's Open Data Initiative statement (Sep 2011) http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/09/22/open-government-action-plan-innovators
John Erickson: [fyi] Obama's Open Data Initiative statement (Sep 2011) http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/09/22/open-government-action-plan-innovators ←
18:42:12 <bhyland> CARD : How to make open data + apps sustainable. How can we provide guidance that is peer-reviewed and properly advertised on the Web, possibly even coming from some standards body or hub site?
Bernadette Hyland: CARD : How to make open data + apps sustainable. How can we provide guidance that is peer-reviewed and properly advertised on the Web, possibly even coming from some standards body or hub site? ←
18:42:59 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: We only have a challenge around a specific opportunity or mission challenge that we don't know how to solve. Ex: descent of a vehicle onto Mars.
Jeanne Holm: We only have a challenge around a specific opportunity or mission challenge that we don't know how to solve. Ex: descent of a vehicle onto Mars. ←
18:43:01 <Paola> sorry was away for a minute, will make a comment on the list
Paola Di Maio: sorry was away for a minute, will make a comment on the list ←
18:43:36 <HadleyBeeman> Olyerickson: Interesting: it combines open innovation, pinned to workflow process within NASA.
John Erickson: Interesting: it combines open innovation, pinned to workflow process within NASA. ←
18:44:40 <Zakim> +sandro.a
Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro.a ←
18:44:57 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: We've taken the health community on Data.gov a different way. Last year: any good idea is a great idea, this year: need a business model to progress.
Jeanne Holm: We've taken the health community on Data.gov a different way. Last year: any good idea is a great idea, this year: need a business model to progress. ←
18:45:48 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: This year we had 50 apps progress. Amazing for the community.
Jeanne Holm: This year we had 50 apps progress. Amazing for the community. ←
18:47:16 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: they were assessed by a panel of industry people. Those companies do it because it's in their interest (economic gain)
Jeanne Holm: they were assessed by a panel of industry people. Those companies do it because it's in their interest (economic gain) ←
18:47:24 <olyerickson> +1 to raising the bar on "good idea" including (sustainable) business model, not simply coolness
John Erickson: +1 to raising the bar on "good idea" including (sustainable) business model, not simply coolness ←
18:47:42 <Zakim> + +1.703.992.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.703.992.aacc ←
18:47:47 <HadleyBeeman> bhyland: we should communicate these successes more, promote them.
Bernadette Hyland: we should communicate these successes more, promote them. ←
18:47:48 <PhilA> +1 to what olyerickson was saying +1 to
Phil Archer: +1 to what olyerickson was saying +1 to ←
18:48:23 <olyerickson> +1.703.992.aacc please identify
John Erickson: +1.703.992.aacc please identify ←
18:48:39 <HadleyBeeman> bhyland: we (W3C) sometimes overegg things, talk about them before they're ready.
Bernadette Hyland: we (W3C) sometimes overegg things, talk about them before they're ready. ←
18:49:11 <Jeanne_> Event is the Health Data Initiative: http://www.iom.edu/Activities/PublicHealth/HealthData/2011-JUN-09.aspx
Jeanne Holm: Event is the Health Data Initiative: http://www.iom.edu/Activities/PublicHealth/HealthData/2011-JUN-09.aspx ←
18:49:38 <HadleyBeeman> bhyland: these projects must be production ready (servers can't fall over due to demand, for example)
Bernadette Hyland: these projects must be production ready (servers can't fall over due to demand, for example) ←
18:49:43 <Zakim> - +1.703.992.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.703.992.aacc ←
18:50:10 <Zakim> + +1.703.992.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.703.992.aadd ←
18:50:14 <Paola> overegg _lol never heard that expression before,
Paola Di Maio: overegg _lol never heard that expression before, ←
18:50:46 <HadleyBeeman> davemc: How do you recognise the people who have done this work? Like Linux in 1995 paid for in figo dollars. Sustain that status.
Dave McAllister: How do you recognise the people who have done this work? Like Linux in 1995 paid for in figo dollars. Sustain that status. ←
18:50:47 <HadleyBeeman> +q
+q ←
18:51:03 <olyerickson> q+
John Erickson: q+ ←
18:51:14 <bhyland> Davemc: People are wired for status. How do we recognize individuals & make it worth their time?
Dave McAllister: People are wired for status. How do we recognize individuals & make it worth their time? [ Scribe Assist by Bernadette Hyland ] ←
18:51:36 <HadleyBeeman> ack me
ack me ←
18:51:51 <bhyland> +1 Davemc
Bernadette Hyland: +1 Davemc ←
18:52:04 <HadleyBeeman> Hadleybeeman: it's wrapped in with making this is the self-interest of the publishers and developers involved.
Hadley Beeman: it's wrapped in with making this is the self-interest of the publishers and developers involved. ←
18:52:21 <PhilA> zakim, aadd is Cory-c
Phil Archer: zakim, aadd is Cory-c ←
18:52:21 <Zakim> +Cory-c; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Cory-c; got it ←
18:52:28 <HadleyBeeman> davemc: Another barometer: how many of these apps ever reach a version 2? That says a lot.
Dave McAllister: Another barometer: how many of these apps ever reach a version 2? That says a lot. ←
18:53:15 <PhilA> q+
Phil Archer: q+ ←
18:53:21 <PhilA> ack olyerickson
Phil Archer: ack olyerickson ←
18:54:08 <HadleyBeeman> olyerickson: Developers sharing message: If we do things in a transparent way, other developers can jump into the ecosystem and participate. We see this happening with government data: the Guardian's data blog (may be the NY Times?) is good at communicating the methods behind visualisations.
John Erickson: Developers sharing message: If we do things in a transparent way, other developers can jump into the ecosystem and participate. We see this happening with government data: the Guardian's data blog (may be the NY Times?) is good at communicating the methods behind visualisations. ←
18:54:43 <HadleyBeeman> olyerickson: We need to push back: have developers/journalists/visualisers provide provenance and sources for their data.
John Erickson: We need to push back: have developers/journalists/visualisers provide provenance and sources for their data. ←
18:55:45 <HadleyBeeman> olyerickson this helps encourage others to use the data, go to the source.
olyerickson this helps encourage others to use the data, go to the source. ←
18:56:16 <HadleyBeeman> bhyland: +1. If we don't put together best practices on this, this could backfire.
Bernadette Hyland: +1. If we don't put together best practices on this, this could backfire. ←
18:56:19 <Jeanne_> Winners of the Health Data Initiative: http://www.health2challenge.org/winners/
Jeanne Holm: Winners of the Health Data Initiative: http://www.health2challenge.org/winners/ ←
18:56:30 <PhilA> An example of data visualisation with link to the source would be http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/oct/28/mortality-statistics-causes-death-england-wales-2010
Phil Archer: An example of data visualisation with link to the source would be http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/oct/28/mortality-statistics-causes-death-england-wales-2010 ←
18:57:13 <PhilA> q-
Phil Archer: q- ←
18:58:45 <bhyland> CARD : What can be done to associated basic provenance info, even an authority & URL of source, of data in a mashup. John Erickson gave an example that he had to email some developers to find out where they pulled data from; Bernadette gave examples of mashups where data was just incorrect and there was no way to reach back to the developer and cite correct data.
Bernadette Hyland: CARD : What can be done to associated basic provenance info, even an authority & URL of source, of data in a mashup. John Erickson gave an example that he had to email some developers to find out where they pulled data from; Bernadette gave examples of mashups where data was just incorrect and there was no way to reach back to the developer and cite correct data. ←
18:58:58 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA: This group might want to promote within W3C: a project I'm working on proposing for funding. That would make it easy for us to set up a working group that would set up a standardised API for correction.
Phil Archer: This group might want to promote within W3C: a project I'm working on proposing for funding. That would make it easy for us to set up a working group that would set up a standardised API for correction. ←
18:59:07 <HadleyBeeman> q+
q+ ←
18:59:30 <davemc> CARD : develop the persona of constituents
Dave McAllister: CARD : develop the persona of constituents ←
18:59:40 <Jeanne_> CARD : Should we consider helping to inform a standard API(s) that could be included to show how to correct the data? (via Phil)
Jeanne Holm: CARD : Should we consider helping to inform a standard API(s) that could be included to show how to correct the data? (via Phil) ←
18:59:46 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA: Here's how you include in your web page or app "here's how you correct this data"
Phil Archer: Here's how you include in your web page or app "here's how you correct this data" ←
19:00:08 <HadleyBeeman> bhyland: Input for the Provenance WG?
Bernadette Hyland: Input for the Provenance WG? ←
19:00:39 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: It would be useful if we could build a process around correcting data
Hadley Beeman: It would be useful if we could build a process around correcting data [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
19:00:44 <PhilA> ... there's noone in charge
Phil Archer: ... there's noone in charge ←
19:00:57 <PhilA> ... there's no process for fixing it, never mind technologies
Phil Archer: ... there's no process for fixing it, never mind technologies ←
19:01:02 <bhyland> proposed URL: http://isanyoneincharge.gov
Bernadette Hyland: proposed URL: http://isanyoneincharge.gov ←
19:01:05 <PhilA> ... so there's stuff we could do there
Phil Archer: ... so there's stuff we could do there ←
19:02:22 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: answering Jeanne_ we can normally find who has published the data (as we're part of government) and when we contact them about data errors we get a wide range of responses
Hadley Beeman: answering Jeanne_ we can normally find who has published the data (as we're part of government) and when we contact them about data errors we get a wide range of responses [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
19:02:25 <olyerickson> Guardian example http://bit.ly/sJgArg is excellent w.r.t. data sources; better to also include e.g. dataviz toolkits (d3.js, etc?)
John Erickson: Guardian example http://bit.ly/sJgArg is excellent w.r.t. data sources; better to also include e.g. dataviz toolkits (d3.js, etc?) ←
19:02:47 <olyerickson> q+
John Erickson: q+ ←
19:02:53 <HadleyBeeman> ack me
ack me ←
19:03:25 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: we're trying to open each of those aspects to transparency. 1st: how many datasets each agency is publishing. 2nd: establish/streamline process for requesting new data and responding to the requester.
Jeanne Holm: we're trying to open each of those aspects to transparency. 1st: how many datasets each agency is publishing. 2nd: establish/streamline process for requesting new data and responding to the requester. ←
19:04:13 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: this builds accountability. We can't do it all at once, because the agencies may push back. They're what they can with their scarce resources.
Jeanne Holm: this builds accountability. We can't do it all at once, because the agencies may push back. They're what they can with their scarce resources. ←
19:04:15 <PhilA> ack olyerickson
Phil Archer: ack olyerickson ←
19:05:05 <HadleyBeeman> olyerickson: Assertions can be made about the data by third parties.
John Erickson: Assertions can be made about the data by third parties. ←
19:05:30 <davemc> +1 to Hadley
Dave McAllister: +1 to Hadley ←
19:05:55 <HadleyBeeman> olyerickson: GLD working group: working on best practices for consuming data, provenance assertions. What do we do with crowdsourced assertions about existing data?
John Erickson: GLD working group: working on best practices for consuming data, provenance assertions. What do we do with crowdsourced assertions about existing data? ←
19:05:56 <davemc> q+
Dave McAllister: q+ ←
19:06:28 <Zakim> +bhandspicker
Zakim IRC Bot: +bhandspicker ←
19:06:42 <Jeanne_> Welcome Brian!
Jeanne Holm: Welcome Brian! ←
19:06:54 <HadleyBeeman> q+
q+ ←
19:06:58 <bhyland> Olyerickson: discussed assertions on provenance of published data. At RPI, they are collecting data from 90 (?) governments worldwide and looking at how to make assertions about quality.
John Erickson: discussed assertions on provenance of published data. At RPI, they are collecting data from 90 (?) governments worldwide and looking at how to make assertions about quality. [ Scribe Assist by Bernadette Hyland ] ←
19:07:09 <PhilA> ack davemc
Phil Archer: ack davemc ←
19:07:22 <Jeanne_> Dave: Reputation and trust are important to any data source
Dave McAllister: Reputation and trust are important to any data source [ Scribe Assist by Jeanne Holm ] ←
19:07:23 <bhandspicker> Going mute and stepping away from the computer...audio only for next hour... then fully engaged.
Brian Handspicker: Going mute and stepping away from the computer...audio only for next hour... then fully engaged. ←
19:07:44 <olyerickson> DaveMc sums my comments up in three words: "reputation and trust" ;)
John Erickson: DaveMc sums my comments up in three words: "reputation and trust" ;) ←
19:07:53 <HadleyBeeman> Davemc: what's the reputation of data after it's gone through a game of Telephone?
Dave McAllister: what's the reputation of data after it's gone through a game of Telephone? ←
19:08:01 <bhyland> Davemc: Discussed reputation & authority of published data.
Dave McAllister: Discussed reputation & authority of published data. [ Scribe Assist by Bernadette Hyland ] ←
19:08:05 <davemc> q-
Dave McAllister: q- ←
19:08:08 <bhyland> q+
Bernadette Hyland: q+ ←
19:08:42 <HadleyBeeman> olyerickson: in the USA, we still don't have a precise mechanism for feeding back on data.
John Erickson: in the USA, we still don't have a precise mechanism for feeding back on data. ←
19:08:44 <bhyland> zakim, who is speaking?
Bernadette Hyland: zakim, who is speaking? ←
19:08:54 <Zakim> bhyland, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: bhandspicker (12%), tpac (24%)
Zakim IRC Bot: bhyland, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: bhandspicker (12%), tpac (24%) ←
19:08:55 <davemc> CARD : sub force on reputation and trust
Dave McAllister: CARD : sub force on reputation and trust ←
19:09:43 <olyerickson> q?
John Erickson: q? ←
19:09:48 <PhilA> ack HadleyBeeman
Phil Archer: ack HadleyBeeman ←
19:10:06 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Communication beyond provenance...
Hadley Beeman: Communication beyond provenance... [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
19:10:27 <PhilA> ... Some data someone was using didn't mind if it was off by 15%, other people may care more
Phil Archer: ... Some data someone was using didn't mind if it was off by 15%, other people may care more ←
19:10:32 <PhilA> ... context matters
Phil Archer: ... context matters ←
19:10:43 <PhilA> Other thoughts on John's thoughts.
Phil Archer: Other thoughts on John's thoughts. ←
19:10:43 <davemc> +1 to PhilA on context
Dave McAllister: +1 to PhilA on context ←
19:11:22 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: we've had big shifts in thoughts as social media has blown away the careful publication process with its checks and balances
Hadley Beeman: we've had big shifts in thoughts as social media has blown away the careful publication process with its checks and balances [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
19:11:36 <PhilA> davemc: It's reputation and trust
Dave McAllister: It's reputation and trust [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
19:11:48 <bhyland> q?
Bernadette Hyland: q? ←
19:12:02 <PhilA> ... there's a difference between publishing any old thing and checked data
Phil Archer: ... there's a difference between publishing any old thing and checked data ←
19:12:12 <Zakim> -bhandspicker
Zakim IRC Bot: -bhandspicker ←
19:12:54 <Zakim> +bhandspicker
Zakim IRC Bot: +bhandspicker ←
19:13:16 <HadleyBeeman> bhyland: certain datasets are unique and authoritative. The only source of this data. It may have errors, but it is the authority on that data.
Bernadette Hyland: certain datasets are unique and authoritative. The only source of this data. It may have errors, but it is the authority on that data. ←
19:14:40 <HadleyBeeman> bhyland: there is an authority-down guidance (GLD WG recommendation). Bottom-up (input from the citizen/commercial company) would be interesting — we could have a reputation analyser.
Bernadette Hyland: there is an authority-down guidance (GLD WG recommendation). Bottom-up (input from the citizen/commercial company) would be interesting — we could have a reputation analyser. ←
19:14:50 <olyerickson> @bhyland your audio is quite soft...
John Erickson: @bhyland your audio is quite soft... ←
19:16:06 <HadleyBeeman> bhyland: GLD WG is pragmatic, US participants may feel a bit behind other nations. We're trying to focus on specific recommendations… do a lot with a little.
Bernadette Hyland: GLD WG is pragmatic, US participants may feel a bit behind other nations. We're trying to focus on specific recommendations… do a lot with a little. ←
19:16:14 <olyerickson> +1 to "doing a lot with a little"
John Erickson: +1 to "doing a lot with a little" ←
19:16:18 <davemc> reputation is something that ebay handles well... most others follow some mechanism based on that model, even if they don't say so
Dave McAllister: reputation is something that ebay handles well... most others follow some mechanism based on that model, even if they don't say so ←
19:16:26 <HadleyBeeman> +1 to getting into/on with it, not stuck trying to make a mathematician happy.
+1 to getting into/on with it, not stuck trying to make a mathematician happy. ←
19:16:29 <olyerickson> q+
John Erickson: q+ ←
19:16:38 <PhilA> ack bhyland
Phil Archer: ack bhyland ←
19:16:47 <PhilA> q+
Phil Archer: q+ ←
19:16:55 <davemc> forget the math guys. make the statisticians hapy!
Dave McAllister: forget the math guys. make the statisticians hapy! ←
19:17:20 <HadleyBeeman> bhandspicker: I'm here (audio only)
Brian Handspicker: I'm here (audio only) ←
19:17:28 <PhilA> ack olyerickson
Phil Archer: ack olyerickson ←
19:17:44 <HadleyBeeman> olyerickson +1 to bhyland
olyerickson +1 to bhyland ←
19:18:18 <HadleyBeeman> olyerickson: on schema.org: motivation was not to recreate the hard work of esablished standards bodies, but to create something that was simple and easy to use
John Erickson: on schema.org: motivation was not to recreate the hard work of esablished standards bodies, but to create something that was simple and easy to use ←
19:18:45 <davemc> "no one expects the Schema Inquisition"
Dave McAllister: "no one expects the Schema Inquisition" ←
19:19:22 <bhyland> The Semantic Link Podcast that John is referring to with RV Guha from Google is good & worthwhile listening to, check out http://semanticweb.com/the-semantic-link-%E2%80%93-episode-11-october-2011_b23961
Bernadette Hyland: The Semantic Link Podcast that John is referring to with RV Guha from Google is good & worthwhile listening to, check out http://semanticweb.com/the-semantic-link-%E2%80%93-episode-11-october-2011_b23961 ←
19:20:05 <bhyland> RV Guha is now chairing the independent effort to define schema.org
Bernadette Hyland: RV Guha is now chairing the independent effort to define schema.org ←
19:20:53 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA: Recently invited to speak at something: "you're W3C, come tell us what's wrong with schema.org." My response: "Nothing. It's not W3C, but it's fine for what it is. Choose the tool that's right for you."
Phil Archer: Recently invited to speak at something: "you're W3C, come tell us what's wrong with schema.org." My response: "Nothing. It's not W3C, but it's fine for what it is. Choose the tool that's right for you." ←
19:21:14 <PhilA> ack me
Phil Archer: ack me ←
19:22:58 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_ (summing up this session): We've been trying to coordinate among groups from different organisations. Next session: there are 3 big events this month (OGDCamp, World Bank event, and this)… How can we progress before the next time we're face-to-face?
Jeanne_ (summing up this session): We've been trying to coordinate among groups from different organisations. Next session: there are 3 big events this month (OGDCamp, World Bank event, and this)… How can we progress before the next time we're face-to-face? ←
19:23:30 <bhyland> To Phil's point, schema.org is an approach to providing simplified guidance on highly useful vocabularies for webmasters who are marking up content. W3C has been very helpful in getting schema.org discussions to happen more transparently in the public on a W3C public mailing list, even though it is not a W3C initiative.
Bernadette Hyland: To Phil's point, schema.org is an approach to providing simplified guidance on highly useful vocabularies for webmasters who are marking up content. W3C has been very helpful in getting schema.org discussions to happen more transparently in the public on a W3C public mailing list, even though it is not a W3C initiative. ←
19:24:15 <HadleyBeeman> Jeanne_: If we want to do these things (deliverables/projects), what partnerships do we need to form to make this happen?
Jeanne Holm: If we want to do these things (deliverables/projects), what partnerships do we need to form to make this happen? ←
19:24:41 <PhilA> Also worth noting that schema.org uses a W3C rec track standard, microdata, which is part of HTML5
Phil Archer: Also worth noting that schema.org uses a W3C rec track standard, microdata, which is part of HTML5 ←
19:24:57 <bhyland> right Phil, true. Thanks.
Bernadette Hyland: right Phil, true. Thanks. ←
19:25:57 <PhilA> meeting adjourned for lunch.
Phil Archer: meeting adjourned for lunch. ←
19:26:23 <PhilA> Reconvene at 14:00 PDT
Phil Archer: Reconvene at 14:00 PDT ←
19:27:03 <Zakim> -bhandspicker
Zakim IRC Bot: -bhandspicker ←
19:27:04 <Zakim> -bhyland
Zakim IRC Bot: -bhyland ←
19:27:06 <HadleyBeeman> Adjourn for lunch
Adjourn for lunch ←
19:27:26 <Zakim> -sandro.a
Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro.a ←
19:27:54 <sandro> HadleyBeeman, PhilA I suggest doing minutes continuously
Sandro Hawke: HadleyBeeman, PhilA I suggest doing minutes continuously ←
19:27:54 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
19:28:15 <HadleyBeeman> cheers, sandro
cheers, sandro ←
19:29:05 <PhilA> rrsagentm draft minutes
Phil Archer: rrsagentm draft minutes ←
19:29:12 <PhilA> rrsagent. draft minutes
Phil Archer: rrsagent. draft minutes ←
19:29:14 <kevinsimkins> Enjoy your lunsh. So long for now..
Kevin Simkins: Enjoy your lunsh. So long for now.. ←
19:29:19 <PhilA> rrsagent, draft minutes
Phil Archer: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
19:29:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-egov-minutes.html PhilA
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-egov-minutes.html PhilA ←
19:29:29 <sandro> PhilA, this group doesn't use RRSAgent Minutes, generally.
Sandro Hawke: PhilA, this group doesn't use RRSAgent Minutes, generally. ←
19:29:40 <sandro> Although, I suppose it could.
Sandro Hawke: Although, I suppose it could. ←
19:30:06 <sandro> See http://www.w3.org/egov/IG/meeting/2011-10-31
Sandro Hawke: See http://www.w3.org/egov/IG/meeting/2011-10-31 ←
19:30:10 <kevinsimkins> Correction -- Enjoy your lunch. So long for now...
Kevin Simkins: Correction -- Enjoy your lunch. So long for now... ←
19:30:34 <Zakim> -Cory-c
Zakim IRC Bot: -Cory-c ←
19:32:11 <Zakim> -Kevin_Simkins
Zakim IRC Bot: -Kevin_Simkins ←
20:13:07 <Zakim> + +1.312.208.aaee
(No events recorded for 40 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.312.208.aaee ←
20:13:46 <Zakim> - +1.312.208.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.312.208.aaee ←
20:35:42 <Zakim> + +1.312.208.aaff
(No events recorded for 21 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.312.208.aaff ←
20:35:45 <Zakim> -tpac
Zakim IRC Bot: -tpac ←
20:35:47 <Zakim> +tpac
Zakim IRC Bot: +tpac ←
20:46:38 <Zakim> - +1.312.208.aaff
(No events recorded for 10 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.312.208.aaff ←
20:55:25 <bhyland> When you're back, here is the blog post I wrote up as feedback to the Open Gov't Data camp, see http://3roundstones.com/2011/10/28/keeping-up-the-momentum-from-the-open-government-data-camp-2011/
(No events recorded for 8 minutes)
Bernadette Hyland: When you're back, here is the blog post I wrote up as feedback to the Open Gov't Data camp, see http://3roundstones.com/2011/10/28/keeping-up-the-momentum-from-the-open-government-data-camp-2011/ ←
20:56:44 <olyerickson> @bhyland thanks
John Erickson: @bhyland thanks ←
20:58:12 <Zakim> + +1.647.747.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.647.747.aagg ←
20:58:12 <sandro> close to starting again?
Sandro Hawke: close to starting again? ←
20:58:34 <HadleyBeeman> sandro, we're still waiting for Jeanne and a few others
sandro, we're still waiting for Jeanne and a few others ←
21:00:23 <Zakim> +sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro ←
21:00:37 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
Phil Archer: zakim, who is here? ←
21:00:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see tpac, +1.647.747.aagg, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see tpac, +1.647.747.aagg, sandro ←
21:00:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see PhilA, HadleyBeeman, davemc, olyerickson, MoZ, chsiao, tlr, bhandspicker, Cory-c, harlanyu_, gdick, Zakim, RRSAgent, josema, edsu, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see PhilA, HadleyBeeman, davemc, olyerickson, MoZ, chsiao, tlr, bhandspicker, Cory-c, harlanyu_, gdick, Zakim, RRSAgent, josema, edsu, trackbot, sandro ←
21:02:11 <josema> zakim, code?
José Alonso: zakim, code? ←
21:02:11 <Zakim> the conference code is 346844 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), josema
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 346844 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), josema ←
21:02:18 <PhilA> hi, if you're the one dialling in from 647 747 can you identify yourself please? Maybe you're in Toronto?
Phil Archer: hi, if you're the one dialling in from 647 747 can you identify yourself please? Maybe you're in Toronto? ←
21:04:42 <davemc> zakim, who is here
Dave McAllister: zakim, who is here ←
21:04:42 <Zakim> davemc, you need to end that query with '?'
Zakim IRC Bot: davemc, you need to end that query with '?' ←
21:04:47 <davemc> zakim, who is here?
Dave McAllister: zakim, who is here? ←
21:04:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see tpac, +1.647.747.aagg, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see tpac, +1.647.747.aagg, sandro ←
21:04:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see yosuke, PhilA, HadleyBeeman, davemc, olyerickson, MoZ, tlr, bhandspicker, Cory-c, harlanyu_, gdick, Zakim, RRSAgent, josema, edsu, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see yosuke, PhilA, HadleyBeeman, davemc, olyerickson, MoZ, tlr, bhandspicker, Cory-c, harlanyu_, gdick, Zakim, RRSAgent, josema, edsu, trackbot, sandro ←
21:04:57 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
21:05:03 <josema> zakim, ??P12 is me
José Alonso: zakim, ??P12 is me ←
21:05:03 <Zakim> +josema; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +josema; got it ←
21:05:31 <olyerickson> TOPIC: Warsaw
21:05:31 <josema> zakim, mute me
José Alonso: zakim, mute me ←
21:05:31 <Zakim> josema should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: josema should now be muted ←
21:06:03 <Zakim> +Cory-c
Zakim IRC Bot: +Cory-c ←
21:06:40 <olyerickson> ... community vast, everyone will to help each other
John Erickson: ... community vast, everyone will to help each other ←
21:06:46 <olyerickson> ... "everyone was frustrated"
John Erickson: ... "everyone was frustrated" ←
21:06:56 <olyerickson> .. see also @bhyland URL
John Erickson: .. see also @bhyland URL ←
21:06:56 <olyerickson> ... useful to learn what other govt's are doing
John Erickson: ... useful to learn what other govt's are doing ←
21:07:11 <olyerickson> ... 3 groups:
John Erickson: ... 3 groups: ←
21:07:25 <olyerickson> 1. Developer group --- cool tools, what's going on, what data available
John Erickson: 1. Developer group --- cool tools, what's going on, what data available ←
21:07:54 <Zakim> + +1.571.331.aahh
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.571.331.aahh ←
21:08:15 <olyerickson> 2. People "doing" ogd (cities, etc)
John Erickson: 2. People "doing" ogd (cities, etc) ←
21:09:23 <olyerickson> interesting observation: epectation that govts would be sharing, thus needed to have policies in place (i.e. proactive)
John Erickson: interesting observation: epectation that govts would be sharing, thus needed to have policies in place (i.e. proactive) ←
21:09:28 <olyerickson> 3. People getting ready to do OGD
John Erickson: 3. People getting ready to do OGD ←
21:09:38 <olyerickson> different than US Data.gov which was interested in getting things done
John Erickson: different than US Data.gov which was interested in getting things done ←
21:09:51 <josema> zakim, unmute me
José Alonso: zakim, unmute me ←
21:09:51 <Zakim> josema should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: josema should no longer be muted ←
21:10:57 <Jeanne_> Josema: Was at Open Government Data Camp, and is seeing maturing in the field
José Alonso: Was at Open Government Data Camp, and is seeing maturing in the field [ Scribe Assist by Jeanne Holm ] ←
21:11:32 <Jeanne_> Josema has started community of practice with the World Bank. The community is growing. Have been participating in EU and EC events, primarily.
Jeanne Holm: Josema has started community of practice with the World Bank. The community is growing. Have been participating in EU and EC events, primarily. ←
21:12:11 <Jeanne_> ...Next step is not enough to just do something, but must be sustainable.
Jeanne Holm: ...Next step is not enough to just do something, but must be sustainable. ←
21:12:39 <Jeanne_> ...Companies that don't have to do anything with IT could have immense benefit from this data.
Jeanne Holm: ...Companies that don't have to do anything with IT could have immense benefit from this data. ←
21:13:05 <PhilA> scribe: Jeanne_
(Scribe set to Jeanne Holm)
21:13:34 <Jeanne_> ...The community is maturing. A few years ago we needed to "boil the ocean" and now we "are already boiling the ocean".
...The community is maturing. A few years ago we needed to "boil the ocean" and now we "are already boiling the ocean". ←
21:13:35 <olyerickson_2> Zakim, who is on the phone?
John Erickson: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
21:13:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see tpac, +1.647.747.aagg, sandro, josema, Cory-c, +1.571.331.aahh
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see tpac, +1.647.747.aagg, sandro, josema, Cory-c, +1.571.331.aahh ←
21:14:09 <Jeanne_> Josema: There were two additional events besides the camp: Open Data in Developing Countries (an open space format/barcamp).
José Alonso: There were two additional events besides the camp: Open Data in Developing Countries (an open space format/barcamp). ←
21:14:54 <Jeanne_> Trying to join two different communities with OpenAid (what countries they are funding) and locally sustainable initiatives in developing countries.
Trying to join two different communities with OpenAid (what countries they are funding) and locally sustainable initiatives in developing countries. ←
21:15:41 <Jeanne_> There were a lot of commonalities in the people working on various things. Looked at the building blocks for open data initiatives.
There were a lot of commonalities in the people working on various things. Looked at the building blocks for open data initiatives. ←
21:16:21 <josema> http://opengovernmentdata.okfnpad.org/open-development
José Alonso: http://opengovernmentdata.okfnpad.org/open-development ←
21:16:24 <Jeanne_> Trying to understand what would be needed. Some concern from Kenyan Open Data Initiative to understand how to survive beyond launch.
Trying to understand what would be needed. Some concern from Kenyan Open Data Initiative to understand how to survive beyond launch. ←
21:17:15 <Jeanne_> Break outs: necessary building blocks for open data; standards for open data (IATA?); evidence of impact of these initiatives.
Break outs: necessary building blocks for open data; standards for open data (IATA?); evidence of impact of these initiatives. ←
21:17:52 <Jeanne_> Concerns about the lack of formal metrics around these to show sustainable initiatives and learning.
Concerns about the lack of formal metrics around these to show sustainable initiatives and learning. ←
21:18:45 <Jeanne_> Another satellite event on open identifiers for companies. Came up in UK around OpenCorporate to build a set of universal identifiers for companies there.
Another satellite event on open identifiers for companies. Came up in UK around OpenCorporate to build a set of universal identifiers for companies there. ←
21:18:59 <PhilA> Josema is talking about http://opencorporates.com/
Phil Archer: Josema is talking about http://opencorporates.com/ ←
21:19:07 <davemc> metrics are intriguing issues "If you can't measure it, it doesn't exist"
Dave McAllister: metrics are intriguing issues "If you can't measure it, it doesn't exist" ←
21:19:35 <josema> http://wiki.okfn.org/OGDCamp_2011_Organizational_Identifiers_Workshop
José Alonso: http://wiki.okfn.org/OGDCamp_2011_Organizational_Identifiers_Workshop ←
21:19:51 <Zakim> -josema
Zakim IRC Bot: -josema ←
21:20:04 <Jeanne_> The current identifiers are done by Dun and Bradstreet.
The current identifiers are done by Dun and Bradstreet. ←
21:20:17 <josema> dropped?
José Alonso: dropped? ←
21:20:22 <josema> redialing
José Alonso: redialing ←
21:20:25 <Jeanne_> People working in OpenAid have a similar problem. There is a format they have for describing companies.
People working in OpenAid have a similar problem. There is a format they have for describing companies. ←
21:20:26 <olyerickson_2> [fyi] getting beyond DUNS numbers, see also http://dotank.nyls.edu/orgpedia/
John Erickson: [fyi] getting beyond DUNS numbers, see also http://dotank.nyls.edu/orgpedia/ ←
21:20:36 <josema> zakim, code?
José Alonso: zakim, code? ←
21:20:36 <Zakim> the conference code is 346844 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), josema
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 346844 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), josema ←
21:20:37 <olyerickson_2> @josema yes apparently
John Erickson: @josema yes apparently ←
21:20:51 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
21:21:00 <josema> zakim, ??P12 is me
José Alonso: zakim, ??P12 is me ←
21:21:00 <Zakim> +josema; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +josema; got it ←
21:21:58 <Jeanne_> There is a subset of this that is Orgpedia led by Jim Hendler and Beth Noveck. But this is trying to solve a much broader issue.
There is a subset of this that is Orgpedia led by Jim Hendler and Beth Noveck. But this is trying to solve a much broader issue. ←
21:22:37 <PhilA> q+
Phil Archer: q+ ←
21:23:07 <josema> IATI for Open Aid -- http://iatistandard.org/
José Alonso: IATI for Open Aid -- http://iatistandard.org/ ←
21:23:12 <PhilA> q-
Phil Archer: q- ←
21:23:58 <olyerickson_2> ack PhilA
John Erickson: ack PhilA ←
21:24:00 <gdick> me/ IATA = Airport Codes plausible but wrong
Gannon Dick: me/ IATA = Airport Codes plausible but wrong ←
21:24:20 <Jeanne_> PhilA Trying to work on this with the Commission, Chris Taggert will be involved.
PhilA Trying to work on this with the Commission, Chris Taggert will be involved. ←
21:24:28 <Jeanne_> Josema: Chris said he was already in touch with them and trying to work together.
José Alonso: Chris said he was already in touch with them and trying to work together. ←
21:26:17 <Jeanne_> Makes sense to connect with the W3C.
Makes sense to connect with the W3C. ←
21:26:41 <PhilA> Note to self - Josama talking about Open 311
Phil Archer: Note to self - Josama talking about Open 311 ←
21:26:59 <Zakim> -Cory-c
Zakim IRC Bot: -Cory-c ←
21:28:16 <davemc> jeanne discusses the desire to "link" to other groups
Dave McAllister: jeanne discusses the desire to "link" to other groups ←
21:28:28 <PhilA> q+
Phil Archer: q+ ←
21:28:41 <davemc> Jeanne: How do we avoid the duplicative efforts of say, data catalogs
Jeanne Holm: How do we avoid the duplicative efforts of say, data catalogs [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
21:29:07 <Jeanne_> Josema: I don't have a good answer for how to best coordinate multiple group activities.
José Alonso: I don't have a good answer for how to best coordinate multiple group activities. ←
21:29:16 <Zakim> +bhandspicker
Zakim IRC Bot: +bhandspicker ←
21:29:52 <Jeanne_> Josema: I will work through the Web Foundation to partner with as many people as possible. Will need specific expertise to do this and that.
José Alonso: I will work through the Web Foundation to partner with as many people as possible. Will need specific expertise to do this and that. ←
21:30:22 <Jeanne_> Josema: Some will be specific issues in developing countries. For me, every one of them has a role to play.
José Alonso: Some will be specific issues in developing countries. For me, every one of them has a role to play. ←
21:31:15 <Jeanne_> Josema: For the World Bank, the target of that community is very different. They are targeting a special group of client governments and high-level policy makers.
José Alonso: For the World Bank, the target of that community is very different. They are targeting a special group of client governments and high-level policy makers. ←
21:31:32 <Jeanne_> Josema: This is different than the membership in OKN or W3C.
José Alonso: This is different than the membership in OKN or W3C. ←
21:31:33 <PhilA> ack me
Phil Archer: ack me ←
21:31:53 <davemc> as always, it comes down to what groups the projects are addressing
Dave McAllister: as always, it comes down to what groups the projects are addressing ←
21:32:05 <Jeanne_> PhilA: There are a lot of people working on the same thing, which Chris Taggert in the UK is leading.
Phil Archer: There are a lot of people working on the same thing, which Chris Taggert in the UK is leading. ←
21:32:56 <Jeanne_> Andrew Stott is working on this project, too. But completely separately in Brussels, DGdigit is having people like me help to create this.
Andrew Stott is working on this project, too. But completely separately in Brussels, DGdigit is having people like me help to create this. ←
21:32:59 <Jeanne_> We do not need to create a whole new vocabulary and can use other people's terms. But the down thing...
We do not need to create a whole new vocabulary and can use other people's terms. But the down thing... ←
21:34:02 <Jeanne_> is that whatever the project, such as working out tools for policy making, in whatever government, that there are slightly different agendas, paymasters, and time scales.
is that whatever the project, such as working out tools for policy making, in whatever government, that there are slightly different agendas, paymasters, and time scales. ←
21:34:07 <josema> time schedule is also an issue for me wrt W3C
José Alonso: time schedule is also an issue for me wrt W3C ←
21:35:03 <Jeanne_> PhilA: I have to deliver by March, but the W3C doesn't work through that quickly. A year ago when we created the OGD group, a rep from NZ said that service could only be provided if the servers were resident in the country requesting the service.
Phil Archer: I have to deliver by March, but the W3C doesn't work through that quickly. A year ago when we created the OGD group, a rep from NZ said that service could only be provided if the servers were resident in the country requesting the service. ←
21:35:35 <Jeanne_> PhilA: The electronic version of "published in NZ" was that the server was in NZ.
Phil Archer: The electronic version of "published in NZ" was that the server was in NZ. ←
21:35:45 <josema> I know weel that sort of problem having faced it in an Open Data project, too
José Alonso: I know Well that sort of problem having faced it in an Open Data project, too ←
21:35:46 <Zakim> -josema
Zakim IRC Bot: -josema ←
21:35:51 <josema> s/weel/Well
21:36:06 <Jeanne_> PhilA: Whatever you do don't define a name space that ends in a country code--other countries won't touch it.
Phil Archer: Whatever you do don't define a name space that ends in a country code--other countries won't touch it. ←
21:36:06 <Jeanne_> Jason Kiss: That has now been modified and there is much more room for manuevering.
Jason Kiss: That has now been modified and there is much more room for manuevering. ←
21:36:12 <josema> zakim, code?
José Alonso: zakim, code? ←
21:36:12 <Zakim> the conference code is 346844 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), josema
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 346844 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), josema ←
21:36:28 <Jeanne_> PhilA: Doing things at different time scales and agendas shows it's a complex problem. There are always going to be problems around the edges and not everything is perfect.
Phil Archer: Doing things at different time scales and agendas shows it's a complex problem. There are always going to be problems around the edges and not everything is perfect. ←
21:36:52 <Jeanne_> Hadley: Those personality bits are critical.
Hadley Beeman: Those personality bits are critical. ←
21:37:05 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
21:37:08 <josema> zakim, ??P12 is me
José Alonso: zakim, ??P12 is me ←
21:37:08 <Zakim> +josema; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +josema; got it ←
21:37:40 <Jeanne_> PhilA: If you were in a different place it would make a very different solution for that country.
Phil Archer: If you were in a different place it would make a very different solution for that country. ←
21:37:41 <Jeanne_> Hadley: I often serve as a bridge translating between different groups working the problem.
Hadley Beeman: I often serve as a bridge translating between different groups working the problem. ←
21:38:41 <davemc> jeanne: we could perhaps coordinate between selected projects. Pick something we're interested in and focus on one
Jeanne Holm: we could perhaps coordinate between selected projects. Pick something we're interested in and focus on one [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
21:39:26 <davemc> Jeanne: We may feel comfortable with with long scale, but project team may not
Jeanne Holm: We may feel comfortable with with long scale, but project team may not [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
21:39:54 <Jeanne_> Josema: I know some of the things I want to build and we could define which make sense for the group to work on. Some of the things I want to produce the World Bank wants
José Alonso: I know some of the things I want to build and we could define which make sense for the group to work on. Some of the things I want to produce the World Bank wants ←
21:40:45 <Jeanne_> ...and others may be ones I need to work on with the W3C.
...and others may be ones I need to work on with the W3C. ←
21:41:20 <Jeanne_> PhilA: So what would such a project look like?
Phil Archer: So what would such a project look like? ←
21:41:25 <Jeanne_> Such as the Corporate identifiers.
Such as the Corporate identifiers. ←
21:41:39 <davemc> jeanne: I could imagine 1 group has the lead, and others would act as experts or peer reviewers
Jeanne Holm: I could imagine 1 group has the lead, and others would act as experts or peer reviewers [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
21:42:20 <davemc> Jeanne: we would (within W3C) invite others to preevnt limits inview
Jeanne Holm: we would (within W3C) invite others to preevnt limits inview [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
21:42:40 <davemc> Jeanne: or one group could handle code, another spec
Jeanne Holm: or one group could handle code, another spec [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
21:42:42 <josema> zakim, mute me
José Alonso: zakim, mute me ←
21:42:42 <Zakim> josema should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: josema should now be muted ←
21:43:34 <gdick> me/ suggest you look at Manufacturer Identification (MID) from US Customs. It's horrible and a good example on how not to ID
Gannon Dick: me/ suggest you look at Manufacturer Identification (MID) from US Customs. It's horrible and a good example on how not to ID ←
21:43:42 <Jeanne_> Hadley: Building a vocabulary or a common group of identifiers is hard because the corporate structure in each country is different.
Hadley Beeman: Building a vocabulary or a common group of identifiers is hard because the corporate structure in each country is different. ←
21:44:10 <davemc> to gdick, but imagine changing it on thefly now
Dave McAllister: to gdick, but imagine changing it on thefly now ←
21:44:11 <Jeanne_> Hadley: Getting that "country" structure in the identifiers early would be important.
Hadley Beeman: Getting that "country" structure in the identifiers early would be important. ←
21:44:49 <gdick> me/ *shudders*
Gannon Dick: me/ *shudders* ←
21:45:03 <Jeanne_> John: This could be as bad as when W3C got involved in DRM many years ago. One of the big reasons Orgpedia exists is that DUNS numbers are claimed as proprietary.
John Erickson: This could be as bad as when W3C got involved in DRM many years ago. One of the big reasons Orgpedia exists is that DUNS numbers are claimed as proprietary. ←
21:45:51 <Jeanne_> John: Unambiguous identifiers are claimed as intellectual property by a big corporation. They are so useful.
John Erickson: Unambiguous identifiers are claimed as intellectual property by a big corporation. They are so useful. ←
21:46:21 <Jeanne_> John: The data we have in Orgpedia is more like a DBpedia thing. Being able to mash it together with other data lets us do useful things.
John Erickson: The data we have in Orgpedia is more like a DBpedia thing. Being able to mash it together with other data lets us do useful things. ←
21:46:35 <davemc> even when they aren't corporate, they may be consider at privacy risks, re; US SSN
Dave McAllister: even when they aren't corporate, they may be consider at privacy risks, re; US SSN ←
21:47:11 <Jeanne_> John: I don't know what role W3C should play--perhaps like the DCAT work for information about corporate entities?
John Erickson: I don't know what role W3C should play--perhaps like the DCAT work for information about corporate entities? ←
21:47:31 <Jeanne_> John: Extensible ways to get common identifiers--W3C should be more of a supporting role in this case, but also have those other entities participating in the W3C.
John Erickson: Extensible ways to get common identifiers--W3C should be more of a supporting role in this case, but also have those other entities participating in the W3C. ←
21:48:28 <Jeanne_> Hadley: The whole reason open corporate exists is that Companies House is a trading fund, which gets some money from the Treasury, and also generates revenue by selling data of companies it collects.
Hadley Beeman: The whole reason open corporate exists is that Companies House is a trading fund, which gets some money from the Treasury, and also generates revenue by selling data of companies it collects. ←
21:49:47 <Jeanne_> PhilA: We can help with hosting vocabularies. We are hosting the organization ontology on W3.org
Phil Archer: We can help with hosting vocabularies. We are hosting the organization ontology on W3.org ←
21:49:49 <Jeanne_> Hadley: Power of the W3C may make it easier to have that conversation.
Hadley Beeman: Power of the W3C may make it easier to have that conversation. ←
21:49:49 <Jeanne_> Hadley: Open Corporates may get better adoption in government areas as open data and open standards are being used.
Hadley Beeman: Open Corporates may get better adoption in government areas as open data and open standards are being used. ←
21:50:04 <josema> hmmm… you might want to make a distinction between standards and non-standards track when considering potential new work
José Alonso: hmmm… you might want to make a distinction between standards and non-standards track when considering potential new work ←
21:50:56 <Jeanne_> PhilA: There is no political affiliation, so that may be a good spot for W3C for hosting ontologies but not the data.
Phil Archer: There is no political affiliation, so that may be a good spot for W3C for hosting ontologies but not the data. ←
21:51:02 <Jeanne_> PhilA: There's no formality behind it.
Phil Archer: There's no formality behind it. ←
21:51:14 <Jeanne_> PhilA: We can review work and publish "where they have met best practice" or "duplicated effort".
Phil Archer: We can review work and publish "where they have met best practice" or "duplicated effort". ←
21:51:21 <josema> review is fine, this group did it before, in fact, in the middle of others' process so it serve them as input
José Alonso: review is fine, this group did it before, in fact, in the middle of others' process so it served them as input ←
21:51:33 <josema> s/serve/served
21:52:23 <Jeanne_> DaveMc: Be careful, it would have to have measurable, quantifiable evaluations or have a potential negative impact.
Dave McAllister: Be careful, it would have to have measurable, quantifiable evaluations or have a potential negative impact. ←
21:54:03 <Jeanne_> PhilA: The Web Foundation came about because W3C was pushing at the boundaries of what it is allowed to do. We have close cooperations among all three.
Phil Archer: The Web Foundation came about because W3C was pushing at the boundaries of what it is allowed to do. We have close cooperations among all three. ←
21:54:03 <Jeanne_> PhilA: if what we want to do doesn't fit, we will do what we can, but we can look at other options.
Phil Archer: if what we want to do doesn't fit, we will do what we can, but we can look at other options. ←
21:54:23 <josema> http://webscience.org/
José Alonso: http://webscience.org/ ←
21:54:30 <Jeanne_> DaveMc: Specification vs. implementation--be careful of being a watchdog.
Dave McAllister: Specification vs. implementation--be careful of being a watchdog. ←
21:54:51 <HadleyBeeman> DaveMc: We stabilise specifications.
Dave McAllister: We stabilise specifications. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
21:55:00 <Jeanne_> PhilA: Web science institute was created because of pushing the education research on socio-economic impacts.
Phil Archer: Web science institute was created because of pushing the education research on socio-economic impacts. ←
21:55:13 <Jeanne_> DaveMc: We stabilize the work and infrastructure.
Dave McAllister: We stabilize the work and infrastructure. ←
21:55:36 <josema> +1 to Dave and Hadley
José Alonso: +1 to Dave and Hadley ←
21:55:54 <josema> zakim, who is here?
José Alonso: zakim, who is here? ←
21:55:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see tpac, +1.647.747.aagg, sandro, +1.571.331.aahh, bhandspicker, josema (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see tpac, +1.647.747.aagg, sandro, +1.571.331.aahh, bhandspicker, josema (muted) ←
21:55:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see davemc, jkiss, chsiao, Jeanne_, PhilA, HadleyBeeman, MoZ, harlanyu_, gdick, Zakim, RRSAgent, josema, edsu, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see davemc, jkiss, chsiao, Jeanne_, PhilA, HadleyBeeman, MoZ, harlanyu_, gdick, Zakim, RRSAgent, josema, edsu, trackbot, sandro ←
21:56:20 <Jeanne_> PhilA: The Foundation is about nation building.
Phil Archer: The Foundation is about nation building. ←
21:56:56 <davemc> I shudder every time DRM is mentioned...
Dave McAllister: I shudder every time DRM is mentioned... ←
21:56:58 <Jeanne_> Hadley's catch is better: stabilize specifications.
Hadley's catch is better: stabilize specifications. ←
21:57:03 <Jeanne_> PhilA: If what comes out of this group is the evolution of a new entity, that's okay.
Phil Archer: If what comes out of this group is the evolution of a new entity, that's okay. ←
21:57:43 <Jeanne_> John: In 2000-2001 when digital rights management came up, many people "knew" what needed to be done, but other voices said the social implications are huge.
John Erickson: In 2000-2001 when digital rights management came up, many people "knew" what needed to be done, but other voices said the social implications are huge. ←
21:57:43 <Jeanne_> John: From W3C perspective, we don't know how to fit this crazy world into this perspective.
John Erickson: From W3C perspective, we don't know how to fit this crazy world into this perspective. ←
21:59:25 <Jeanne_> John: W3C looked at creating and maturing standards and technologies--workshop showed that other stakeholders needed to talk more before W3C could proceed.
John Erickson: W3C looked at creating and maturing standards and technologies--workshop showed that other stakeholders needed to talk more before W3C could proceed. ←
22:00:16 <davemc> So what I'm hearing is that we need to decide what problem(s) we are solving, nd for whom. And whether they see it as a problem
Dave McAllister: So what I'm hearing is that we need to decide what problem(s) we are solving, nd for whom. And whether they see it as a problem ←
22:00:46 <Jeanne_> John: It's reasonable to ask the questions, but these groups may need to identify a task like common metadata to define corporate tasks.
John Erickson: It's reasonable to ask the questions, but these groups may need to identify a task like common metadata to define corporate tasks. ←
22:02:11 <davemc> agenda addendum: naptime!
Dave McAllister: agenda addendum: naptime! ←
22:02:27 <Jeanne_> John: Having that brand associated with it attracts governments.
John Erickson: Having that brand associated with it attracts governments. ←
22:02:27 <Jeanne_> PhilA: DCAT is at an early draft now, but ADMS is being a more stable standard.
Phil Archer: DCAT is at an early draft now, but ADMS is being a more stable standard. ←
22:03:01 <Jeanne_> John: Our work is not to endorse DCAT but to endorse the model. A good thing to do to adopt a standard for description.
John Erickson: Our work is not to endorse DCAT but to endorse the model. A good thing to do to adopt a standard for description. ←
22:04:00 <Jeanne_> Bernard: Many governments are expecting something out of the eGov group. Should we be there?
Bernard Gidon: Many governments are expecting something out of the eGov group. Should we be there? ←
22:04:12 <davemc> test
Dave McAllister: test ←
22:04:18 <Jeanne_> John: Kenya looked at the use of the DCAT standard and liked it, but if W3C had branded or endorsed it the government might have looked at it differently.
John Erickson: Kenya looked at the use of the DCAT standard and liked it, but if W3C had branded or endorsed it the government might have looked at it differently. ←
22:04:22 <Jeanne_> PhilA: There are lots of communities that do activities like mobile apps but are not W3C. But governments would like to have something to point to from legislation or elsewhere to reference.
Phil Archer: There are lots of communities that do activities like mobile apps but are not W3C. But governments would like to have something to point to from legislation or elsewhere to reference. ←
22:04:46 <PhilA> present+ Bernard Gidon
Phil Archer: present+ Bernard Gidon ←
22:04:59 <josema> agenda?
José Alonso: agenda? ←
22:05:05 <josema> ah...
José Alonso: ah... ←
22:06:32 <josema> do you need anything else from me? getting late here
José Alonso: do you need anything else from me? getting late here ←
22:06:51 <Zakim> - +1.647.747.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.647.747.aagg ←
22:07:20 <davemc> Josema, everyone is distracted. will ask
Dave McAllister: Josema, everyone is distracted. will ask ←
22:07:26 <josema> please!
José Alonso: please! ←
22:07:45 <davemc> Jeanne says you can go, Jose
Dave McAllister: Jeanne says you can go, Jose ←
22:07:47 <davemc> thanks
Dave McAllister: thanks ←
22:08:21 <josema> ack me
José Alonso: ack me ←
22:08:34 <davemc> Open Gov data discussion by Hadley
Dave McAllister: Open Gov data discussion by Hadley ←
22:08:38 <Zakim> -josema
Zakim IRC Bot: -josema ←
22:09:36 <davemc> Jeanne: recaps: developers who want to do stuff, people that want to share war stories, others who want to make sure the new scars are tolerable
Jeanne Holm: recaps: developers who want to do stuff, people that want to share war stories, others who want to make sure the new scars are tolerable [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:09:49 <davemc> most people moving methodically on open data plans
Dave McAllister: most people moving methodically on open data plans ←
22:10:34 <davemc> jeanne: was good to have elected reps there, and have them push/endorse. Exemplars are really useful
Jeanne Holm: was good to have elected reps there, and have them push/endorse. Exemplars are really useful [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:10:43 <josema> btw, if you want to take a look at what WF is up to wrt Open Data, an starting point can be the slides I used at the camp but I'm producing more documentation already): http://public.webfoundation.org/2011/10/20111003_WF_OGDCAMP_JA.pdf
José Alonso: btw, if you want to take a look at what WF is up to wrt Open Data, an starting point can be the slides I used at the camp but I'm producing more documentation already): http://public.webfoundation.org/2011/10/20111003_WF_OGDCAMP_JA.pdf ←
22:11:14 <davemc> Jeanne: Hadley thought a lot was going on, but that we don't have enough structure to reorg
Jeanne Holm: Hadley thought a lot was going on, but that we don't have enough structure to reorg [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:11:42 <josema> rrsagent, pointer?
José Alonso: rrsagent, pointer? ←
22:11:42 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-egov-irc#T22-11-42
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2011/10/31-egov-irc#T22-11-42 ←
22:11:52 <davemc> Jeanne: there were some depressing keynotes; some very definite fails
Jeanne Holm: there were some depressing keynotes; some very definite fails [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:12:07 <josema> thanks for having me
José Alonso: thanks for having me ←
22:12:08 <davemc> Jeanne: we need to bring the team together so we don't wither
Jeanne Holm: we need to bring the team together so we don't wither [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:13:50 <davemc> Bernadette: We've gotten here through a small and committed teams. As we go mainstream, the message may become diluted for free and open exchanges aren't preserved
Bernadette Hyland: We've gotten here through a small and committed teams. As we go mainstream, the message may become diluted for free and open exchanges aren't preserved [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:14:18 <davemc> Bernadette: open data as publication may be considered threatening to existing corporations
Bernadette Hyland: open data as publication may be considered threatening to existing corporations [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:15:02 <davemc> Bernadette: we need to tap the braintrust, and hype successes, while avoiding negative interests
Bernadette Hyland: we need to tap the braintrust, and hype successes, while avoiding negative interests [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:16:01 <davemc> Bernadette: the open and transparent interests, though different approaches, including negative ones was good
Bernadette Hyland: the open and transparent interests, though different approaches, including negative ones was good [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:17:26 <davemc> what?
Dave McAllister: what? ←
22:17:44 <davemc> red room, chains, concrete, cold
Dave McAllister: red room, chains, concrete, cold ←
22:18:09 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
Phil Archer: zakim, who is here? ←
22:18:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see tpac, sandro, +1.571.331.aahh, bhandspicker
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see tpac, sandro, +1.571.331.aahh, bhandspicker ←
22:18:10 <davemc> hadley: on practices and policies.
Hadley Beeman: on practices and policies. [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:18:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see davemc, jkiss, chsiao, PhilA, harlanyu_, gdick, Zakim, RRSAgent, edsu, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see davemc, jkiss, chsiao, PhilA, harlanyu_, gdick, Zakim, RRSAgent, edsu, trackbot, sandro ←
22:18:30 <davemc> slides are on the agenda page
Dave McAllister: slides are on the agenda page ←
22:19:11 <davemc> you're safe
Dave McAllister: you're safe ←
22:19:23 <PhilA> present+ Virginie Galindo, Gemalto
Phil Archer: present+ Virginie Galindo, Gemalto ←
22:19:38 <davemc> thanks for catching that Phil. Bad on names
Dave McAllister: thanks for catching that Phil. Bad on names ←
22:19:53 <davemc> Hadley to discuss OPen Gov data in general, landscape
Dave McAllister: Hadley to discuss OPen Gov data in general, landscape ←
22:19:58 <chsiao> chingteng hsiao from academia sinica
Chingteng Hsiao: chingteng hsiao from academia sinica ←
22:20:15 <PhilA> present+ chingteng hsiao
Phil Archer: present+ chingteng hsiao ←
22:20:33 <Jeanne> Welcome to our new attendees and guests!
Welcome to our new attendees and guests! ←
22:20:59 <PhilA> present+ Cheng Hung
Phil Archer: present+ Cheng Hung ←
22:21:36 <davemc> HAdley: types of data, UK categories : past data (historical), future data (forecasting), infrastructure (geo), real-time (weather)
Hadley Beeman: types of data, UK categories : past data (historical), future data (forecasting), infrastructure (geo), real-time (weather) [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:22:02 <davemc> Hadley: talking about non-personally identifiable data
Hadley Beeman: talking about non-personally identifiable data [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:22:18 <davemc> Hadley: does this differ from working def?
Hadley Beeman: does this differ from working def? [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:23:02 <davemc> Hadley: vision sit within gov, devs choose from sets; individuals use apps to make life better
Hadley Beeman: vision sit within gov, devs choose from sets; individuals use apps to make life better [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:23:25 <davemc> bernard: I don't see flow. Hadley: that was intentianal
Bernard Gidon: I don't see flow. Hadley: that was intentianal [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:23:40 <PhilA> Hadley's slides are at http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/File:Open_data_egov_IG_slides.pdf
Phil Archer: Hadley's slides are at http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/File:Open_data_egov_IG_slides.pdf ←
22:23:55 <davemc> +1 on PDF <grin>
Dave McAllister: +1 on PDF <grin> ←
22:24:45 <davemc> Hadley: it's hard to aggregate data from multiple sources. Think school data to housing prices
Dave McAllister: Hadley: it's hard to aggregate data from multiple sources. Think school data to housing prices ←
22:24:58 <davemc> Hadley: They aren't insumountable, just hard
Dave McAllister: Hadley: They aren't insumountable, just hard ←
22:25:27 <davemc> Hadley: Quality, reliability reputation trust all fall in
Dave McAllister: Hadley: Quality, reliability reputation trust all fall in ←
22:26:11 <davemc> Hadley: characters: publishers from many separate groups, Interpreter (explain what that really is)
Dave McAllister: Hadley: characters: publishers from many separate groups, Interpreter (explain what that really is) ←
22:27:02 <davemc> Hadley: characters: developers, build something from this data, and end users (who may not see raw data, but see some result
Dave McAllister: Hadley: characters: developers, build something from this data, and end users (who may not see raw data, but see some result ←
22:28:32 <davemc> John: what does user mean? Obvious use is end user of the result of the app, but developer is also an important user. Developers may have significant and gating requirements.
John Erickson: what does user mean? Obvious use is end user of the result of the app, but developer is also an important user. Developers may have significant and gating requirements. [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:31:57 <davemc> John: wishes the world was closer to dev/end user.
John Erickson: wishes the world was closer to dev/end user. [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:32:29 <davemc> John: mashable apis are use, not so much raw data
John Erickson: mashable apis are use, not so much raw data [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:33:05 <davemc> Hadley: would be useful to be able to deliver what each layer needs
Dave McAllister: Hadley: would be useful to be able to deliver what each layer needs ←
22:33:44 <davemc> Hadley: in gov, most want closeness to their own data, related data and ability to extract meaningful information
Dave McAllister: Hadley: in gov, most want closeness to their own data, related data and ability to extract meaningful information ←
22:34:01 <gdick> me/ Trick or Treat Time! er, um, I have previous commitments and must drop off. Check the public eGov IG board. I posted two web apps. Hadley and John might like them.
Gannon Dick: me/ Trick or Treat Time! er, um, I have previous commitments and must drop off. Check the public eGov IG board. I posted two web apps. Hadley and John might like them. ←
22:34:12 <davemc> Hadley: Currently, getting to the data can be hard. Still driven by personal netwrok
Dave McAllister: Hadley: Currently, getting to the data can be hard. Still driven by personal netwrok ←
22:34:41 <davemc> Hadley: we emphasis the more they publish the better their own lives will be
Dave McAllister: Hadley: we emphasis the more they publish the better their own lives will be ←
22:36:03 <davemc> PhillA: asked about organograms
Dave McAllister: PhillA: asked about organograms ←
22:36:40 <davemc> PhilA: data.gov.uk has that organogram data
Dave McAllister: PhilA: data.gov.uk has that organogram data ←
22:37:02 <davemc> http://data.gov.uk/organogram/cabinet-office
Dave McAllister: http://data.gov.uk/organogram/cabinet-office ←
22:37:49 <davemc> PhilA: nice example of data use in public space
Dave McAllister: PhilA: nice example of data use in public space ←
22:38:18 <davemc> PhilA: shifting to slides
Dave McAllister: PhilA: shifting to slides ←
22:38:47 <davemc> PhilA: EU projects
Dave McAllister: PhilA: EU projects ←
22:39:13 <davemc> PhilA: Crossover: policy modelling tools.
Dave McAllister: PhilA: Crossover: policy modelling tools. ←
22:39:52 <davemc> PhilA: build repository for egov. planning 3 workshops.
Dave McAllister: PhilA: build repository for egov. planning 3 workshops. ←
22:40:19 <davemc> PhilA: ECEG 2012 reference
Dave McAllister: PhilA: ECEG 2012 reference ←
22:40:45 <davemc> PhilA: 1st workshop is on using the data
Dave McAllister: PhilA: 1st workshop is on using the data ←
22:41:15 <davemc> PhilA: workshop to show what is being done, not creating more data
Dave McAllister: PhilA: workshop to show what is being done, not creating more data ←
22:41:55 <davemc> PhilA: if IG wants to get involved in this space, this would be a point of focus
Dave McAllister: PhilA: if IG wants to get involved in this space, this would be a point of focus ←
22:42:01 <Jeanne> CARD (via PhilA): No more papers, only instances of the use of the data.
CARD (via PhilA): No more papers, only instances of the use of the data. ←
22:42:28 <davemc> PhilA: millennium Institute in Dec in DC
Dave McAllister: PhilA: millennium Institute in Dec in DC ←
22:42:41 <Zakim> - +1.571.331.aahh
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.571.331.aahh ←
22:43:13 <davemc> PhilA: final in brussels from Lisbon council, Mar 2013.
Dave McAllister: PhilA: final in brussels from Lisbon council, Mar 2013. ←
22:43:35 <davemc> PhilA: Brussels will be major focal point
Dave McAllister: PhilA: Brussels will be major focal point ←
22:44:06 <Jeanne> CARD : Coordinate with Crossover project for June 2012 (Barcelona) or final March 2013 (Lisbon).
CARD : Coordinate with Crossover project for June 2012 (Barcelona) or final March 2013 (Lisbon). ←
22:44:18 <davemc> JOhn: how do we keep world in perspective
John Erickson: how do we keep world in perspective [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:44:45 <davemc> Hadley : How do we focus on where we should/will be , not where we are now
Dave McAllister: Hadley : How do we focus on where we should/will be , not where we are now ←
22:45:05 <davemc> PhilA: Focus on 4 year out, deliver in two. Wide open proposals
Dave McAllister: PhilA: Focus on 4 year out, deliver in two. Wide open proposals ←
22:45:48 <davemc> PhilA: Semic: http://semic.eu
Dave McAllister: PhilA: Semic: http://semic.eu ←
22:46:18 <davemc> PhilA: semantic interoperability across European community
Dave McAllister: PhilA: semantic interoperability across European community ←
22:46:40 <davemc> PhilA: This is a contracted project, PWC
Dave McAllister: PhilA: This is a contracted project, PWC ←
22:47:07 <davemc> PhilA: developing ADMS (schema), looks similar to DCAT
Dave McAllister: PhilA: developing ADMS (schema), looks similar to DCAT ←
22:47:46 <sandro> q+ to clarify what's happening with dcat
Sandro Hawke: q+ to clarify what's happening with dcat ←
22:49:02 <davemc> John: May 2011, open knowledge foundation met and take away was potential was there for DCATlike models
John Erickson: May 2011, open knowledge foundation met and take away was potential was there for DCATlike models [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:49:18 <HadleyBeeman> q
Hadley Beeman: q ←
22:49:20 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
22:49:31 <davemc> John: everyone agrees dcat model makes sense
John Erickson: everyone agrees dcat model makes sense [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:49:44 <davemc> John: no competitors for DCAT
John Erickson: no competitors for DCAT [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:49:56 <HadleyBeeman> ack sandro
Hadley Beeman: ack sandro ←
22:49:56 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to clarify what's happening with dcat
Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to clarify what's happening with dcat ←
22:50:31 <davemc> Sandro: Sandro clarifies that DCAT was presented
Sandro Hawke: Sandro clarifies that DCAT was presented [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:51:16 <davemc> Sandro: dact is on refernce track
Sandro Hawke: dcat is on refernce track [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:51:45 <davemc> s/dact/dcat
22:52:26 <Zakim> -bhandspicker
Zakim IRC Bot: -bhandspicker ←
22:52:35 <davemc> Sandro: timeline is unclear, but hopefully not very long
Sandro Hawke: timeline is unclear, but hopefully not very long [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:52:51 <davemc> Hadley: moves to continue and readress this later
Hadley Beeman: moves to continue and readress this later [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:53:08 <HadleyBeeman> CARD for GLD WG: clarify the DCAT development/recommendation process within the context of the GLD's work.
Hadley Beeman: CARD for GLD WG: clarify the DCAT development/recommendation process within the context of the GLD's work. ←
22:53:44 <sandro> Sandro: See http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/charter 2.3 Standard Vocabularies, Item 1 Metadata.
Sandro Hawke: See http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/charter 2.3 Standard Vocabularies, Item 1 Metadata. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
22:53:53 <davemc> PhilA: DC and DCAT model being developed in EC is due in Dec 2011
Dave McAllister: PhilA: DC and DCAT model being developed in EC is due in Dec 2011 ←
22:54:24 <davemc> PhilA: ADMS uses both terminology DC and DCAT
Dave McAllister: PhilA: ADMS uses both terminology DC and DCAT ←
22:54:30 <olyerickson> Discussion of Max Dekkers' ADMS work (to be finished Dec 2011)
John Erickson: Discussion of Max Dekkers' ADMS work (to be finished Dec 2011) ←
22:55:14 <davemc> PhilA: next year for endoersement by EU, not legally binding but commission will "request" (force of procurement)
Dave McAllister: PhilA: next year for endoersement by EU, not legally binding but commission will "request" (force of procurement) ←
22:55:55 <davemc> PhilA: ADMS may have impact in EU, but may fail wrldwide, due to .EU status
Dave McAllister: PhilA: ADMS may have impact in EU, but may fail wrldwide, due to .EU status ←
22:56:06 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA: GLD WG can review the ADMS work.
Phil Archer: GLD WG can review the ADMS work. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
22:56:39 <davemc> John: ADMS doc available? PhilA: not public yet.
Dave McAllister: John: ADMS doc available? PhilA: not public yet. ←
22:57:20 <davemc> John: How do we deal with this activity, (consultant working on project) wrt our specifications
John Erickson: How do we deal with this activity, (consultant working on project) wrt our specifications [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:57:49 <davemc> PhilA: Consultant does know his stuff, and has active community
Dave McAllister: PhilA: Consultant does know his stuff, and has active community ←
22:57:51 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
22:58:06 <davemc> PhilA: eGov needs to provide bridge across commuities
Dave McAllister: PhilA: eGov needs to provide bridge across commuities ←
22:58:25 <davemc> PhilA: we will have to work within these timelines.
Dave McAllister: PhilA: we will have to work within these timelines. ←
22:58:51 <davemc> HAdley: Can we move GLD stuff to GLD
Hadley Beeman: Can we move GLD stuff to GLD [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
22:59:20 <davemc> PhilA: working on core vocabs: person, Business and location/address
Dave McAllister: PhilA: working on core vocabs: person, Business and location/address ←
22:59:31 <sandro> q-
Sandro Hawke: q- ←
22:59:32 <olyerickson> +1 to ADMS being a W3C GLD discussion topic (along with DCAT and other (?!?) dataset catalog vocabs)
John Erickson: +1 to ADMS being a W3C GLD discussion topic (along with DCAT and other (?!?) dataset catalog vocabs) ←
22:59:40 <davemc> PhilA: (moving on)
Dave McAllister: PhilA: (moving on) ←
23:00:08 <davemc> PhilA: GLD lots of crossover with Crossover
Dave McAllister: PhilA: GLD lots of crossover with Crossover ←
23:00:43 <davemc> PhilA: hopes Bernadette will get into what hs been built
Dave McAllister: PhilA: hopes Bernadette will get into what hs been built ←
23:01:39 <davemc> PhilA: ESP games for crowd sourcing tags, data correction. Gamification issue
Dave McAllister: PhilA: ESP games for crowd sourcing tags, data correction. Gamification issue ←
23:02:17 <davemc> Zakim, q?
Dave McAllister: Zakim, q? ←
23:02:17 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
Zakim IRC Bot: I see no one on the speaker queue ←
23:02:31 <davemc> Hadley calls time check
Dave McAllister: Hadley calls time check ←
23:03:22 <davemc> John: gives background on efforts
John Erickson: gives background on efforts [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:04:15 <davemc> John: RPI has been working in this space for some time, portal is "Linking Open Government Data"
John Erickson: RPI has been working in this space for some time, portal is "Linking Open Government Data" [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:05:12 <davemc> John: process identifies data set, pulls them down, creates provenance, enhance data,
John Erickson: process identifies data set, pulls them down, creates provenance, enhance data, [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:05:25 <davemc> John: Billions of triples, millions of data set converted
John Erickson: Billions of triples, millions of data set converted [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:05:57 <davemc> John: Idea was to create portal to help build community
John Erickson: Idea was to create portal to help build community [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:06:19 <davemc> John: demos, source code, tutorials,
John Erickson: demos, source code, tutorials, [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:07:22 <davemc> John: new introductions; International open gov data search.
John Erickson: new introductions; International open gov data search. [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:07:54 <davemc> John: scaping open gov data, create RDF DCAT-like metadata, and make available
John Erickson: scraping open gov data, create RDF DCAT-like metadata, and make available [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:08:38 <davemc> s/scap/scrap
23:09:07 <davemc> John: need to follow a common metadata model
John Erickson: need to follow a common metadata model [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:09:40 <davemc> John: it's a step forward that gov data _is_ available, though model is 15 years old
John Erickson: it's a step forward that gov data _is_ available, though model is 15 years old [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:10:18 <davemc> John: Instance hub, canonical identifiers for use during conversion
John Erickson: Instance hub, canonical identifiers for use during conversion [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:10:30 <HadleyBeeman> +1 to John's point that the publishing models (formats, etc) are 15 years old.
Hadley Beeman: +1 to John's point that the publishing models (formats, etc) are 15 years old. ←
23:10:59 <HadleyBeeman> (Though I'll emphasise that it's much better to get CSV data with poor metadata than not get it at all!)
Hadley Beeman: (Though I'll emphasise that it's much better to get CSV data with poor metadata than not get it at all!) ←
23:11:10 <davemc> John: EPA toxic data example
John Erickson: EPA toxic data example [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:13:11 <davemc> John: demo of water quality data app
John Erickson: demo of water quality data app [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:14:23 <davemc> John: munge of multiple data sources and drill-in
John Erickson: munge of multiple data sources and drill-in [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:15:31 <davemc> Hadley: seems to be great cross between John and PhilA app directions
Hadley Beeman: seems to be great cross between John and PhilA app directions [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:16:43 <davemc> Phila: gov types may be resistant to such examples such as arsenic
Phil Archer: gov types may be resistant to such examples such as arsenic [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:17:12 <davemc> John: data is deeper
John Erickson: data is deeper [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:17:26 <davemc> PhilA: data needs to be in context
Phil Archer: data needs to be in context [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:18:15 <davemc> John: work is around where the data comes from and representing the full timeline
John Erickson: work is around where the data comes from and representing the full timeline [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:18:46 <davemc> Hadley: problem exists even between written versus spoken words
Hadley Beeman: problem exists even between written versus spoken words [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:20:20 <davemc> John: may be compared across lots of data comparisons
John Erickson: may be compared across lots of data comparisons [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:21:03 <olyerickson> See http://inference-web.org/wiki/Semantic_Water_Quality_Portal for screen shot "demo" and discussion
John Erickson: See http://inference-web.org/wiki/Semantic_Water_Quality_Portal for screen shot "demo" and discussion ←
23:21:05 <davemc> Hadley: open data in UK may be viewed as used for "punishment"
Hadley Beeman: open data in UK may be viewed as used for "punishment" [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:21:33 <davemc> Hadley: we may need to address this more positively
Hadley Beeman: we may need to address this more positively [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:22:06 <olyerickson> See http://was.tw.rpi.edu/swqp/map.html for live Semantic Water Quality demo (note: limited regions encoded)
John Erickson: See http://was.tw.rpi.edu/swqp/map.html for live Semantic Water Quality demo (note: limited regions encoded) ←
23:22:32 <davemc> Hadley: Linkedgov will move to NFP
Hadley Beeman: Linkedgov will move to NFP [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:23:16 <davemc> Hadley: 3 problems: data types
Hadley Beeman: 3 problems: data types [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:23:30 <davemc> Hadley: allows mash ups across data from one place
Hadley Beeman: allows mash ups across data from one place [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:23:42 <davemc> Hadley: works with officials to decode data
Hadley Beeman: works with officials to decode data [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:24:43 <davemc> Hadley: demo/discussion of aggregating datasets
Hadley Beeman: demo/discussion of aggregating datasets [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:25:18 <davemc> Hadley: sometimes hard to recognized connections
Hadley Beeman: sometimes hard to recognized connections [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:25:39 <davemc> Hadley: many datasets are missing metadata
Hadley Beeman: many datasets are missing metadata [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:26:49 <davemc> Hadley: once the connection is made, the data aggregation is also made available
Hadley Beeman: once the connection is made, the data aggregation is also made available [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:27:32 <davemc> Hadley: linkedgov is building games to engage . tasks take 30s or less
Hadley Beeman: linkedgov is building games to engage . tasks take 30s or less [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:28:14 <davemc> Hadley: good engagement with civil service
Hadley Beeman: good engagement with civil service [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:29:15 <davemc> Hadley: semantic sketch for open quesry
Hadley Beeman: semantic sketch for open query [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:29:28 <davemc> s/quesry/query/
23:29:53 <davemc> Hadley: reliability score is made up of manyitems
Hadley Beeman: reliability score is made up of manyitems [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:30:59 <davemc> Jeanne: what does clean up the data mean?
Jeanne Holm: what does clean up the data mean? [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:31:28 <davemc> Hadley: we use open practices to make the data better
Hadley Beeman: we use open practices to make the data better [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:32:24 <davemc> John: describes the process from the query
John Erickson: describes the process from the query [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:32:43 <davemc> Hadley: may see multiple answers, from multiple datasets
Hadley Beeman: may see multiple answers, from multiple datasets [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:32:55 <davemc> john: reliability?
John Erickson: reliability? [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:33:11 <davemc> Hadley: describes items for reliability (age, source, etc)
Hadley Beeman: describes items for reliability (age, source, etc) [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:33:44 <davemc> John: this is the essence for mashup and visualizations
John Erickson: this is the essence for mashup and visualizations [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:34:09 <davemc> John: seems well designed to select appropriate datasets
John Erickson: seems well designed to select appropriate datasets [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:34:36 <davemc> John: often the questions get simplified
John Erickson: often the questions get simplified [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:34:52 <davemc> Hadley: we want to navigate through data in multiple days
Hadley Beeman: we want to navigate through data in multiple days [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:35:12 <davemc> Hadley: may be great to move into social aspects
Hadley Beeman: may be great to move into social aspects [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:35:38 <davemc> Hadley: visualization is increasingly important
Hadley Beeman: visualization is increasingly important [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:36:23 <davemc> Hadley: process loop focuses on the feedback (providers and interpreters)
Hadley Beeman: process loop focuses on the feedback (providers and interpreters) [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:37:02 <davemc> Jeanne: take a 15 minute break. following policy and accessibility
Jeanne Holm: take a 15 minute break. following policy and accessibility [ Scribe Assist by Dave McAllister ] ←
23:38:30 <Zakim> -sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro ←
23:39:11 <PhilA> Break for coffee
Phil Archer: Break for coffee ←
23:43:31 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, tpac, in SW_e-Gov(eGovIG)11:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, tpac, in SW_e-Gov(eGovIG)11:00AM ←
23:43:34 <Zakim> SW_e-Gov(eGovIG)11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_e-Gov(eGovIG)11:00AM has ended ←
23:43:36 <Zakim> Attendees were Sandro, tpac, bhyland, +1.410.975.aaaa, Paola, +1.847.699.aabb, Kevin_Simkins, [IPcaller], +1.703.992.aacc, +1.703.992.aadd, Cory-c, bhandspicker, +1.312.208.aaee,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Sandro, tpac, bhyland, +1.410.975.aaaa, Paola, +1.847.699.aabb, Kevin_Simkins, [IPcaller], +1.703.992.aacc, +1.703.992.aadd, Cory-c, bhandspicker, +1.312.208.aaee, ←
23:43:38 <Zakim> ... +1.312.208.aaff, +1.647.747.aagg, josema, +1.571.331.aahh
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.312.208.aaff, +1.647.747.aagg, josema, +1.571.331.aahh ←
23:53:26 <sandro> zakim, this is egov
(No events recorded for 9 minutes)
Sandro Hawke: zakim, this is egov ←
23:53:26 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not see a conference named 'egov' in progress or scheduled at this time
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, sandro, I do not see a conference named 'egov' in progress or scheduled at this time ←
23:54:04 <sandro> zakim, room for 5?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, room for 5? ←
23:54:05 <Zakim> ok, sandro; conference Team_(egov)23:54Z scheduled with code 26632 (CONF2) for 60 minutes until 0054Z
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, sandro; conference Team_(egov)23:54Z scheduled with code 26632 (CONF2) for 60 minutes until 0054Z ←
23:54:26 <sandro> PhilA, it looks like the egov conference timed out. Let's use CONF2.
Sandro Hawke: PhilA, it looks like the egov conference timed out. Let's use CONF2. ←
23:54:37 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: eGov all-day meeting Oct 31, Nov 1 -- http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4 Conf Code 26632 (CONF2)
Sandro Hawke: sandro has changed the topic to: eGov all-day meeting Oct 31, Nov 1 -- http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4 Conf Code 26632 (CONF2) ←
23:54:52 <Zakim> Team_(egov)23:54Z has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(egov)23:54Z has now started ←
23:54:59 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
00:00:04 <olyerickson> zakim, who is on the phone?
John Erickson: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
00:00:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Sandro ←
00:00:52 <olyerickson> Zakim, I am the scribe
John Erickson: Zakim, I am the scribe ←
00:00:52 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I am the scribe', olyerickson
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'I am the scribe', olyerickson ←
00:00:54 <PhilA> scribe: olyerickson
(Scribe set to John Erickson)
00:01:00 <olyerickson> scribe: olyerickson
00:01:44 <olyerickson> topic: Open Government Data Practices and Policies (continued)
00:02:00 <sandro> ping. can someone dial back in, code CONF2 ?
Sandro Hawke: ping. can someone dial back in, code CONF2 ? ←
00:02:26 <olyerickson> hadley: have now recognized that they need to do more
Hadley Beeman: have now recognized that they need to do more ←
00:02:40 <sandro> PhilA, ?
Sandro Hawke: PhilA, ? ←
00:02:50 <olyerickson> ... conversations w/ dev's focus on problem of data behind paywalls
... conversations w/ dev's focus on problem of data behind paywalls ←
00:03:00 <olyerickson> what is open data
what is open data ←
00:03:13 <sandro> Can you dial in? code Conf2
Sandro Hawke: Can you dial in? code Conf2 ←
00:03:26 <olyerickson> what rights do citizens have to data
what rights do citizens have to data ←
00:03:26 <olyerickson> what is our obligation to citizens
what is our obligation to citizens ←
00:04:40 <olyerickson> The Shareholder Executive is responsible for maximizing revenue from (e.g.) selling of data
The Shareholder Executive is responsible for maximizing revenue from (e.g.) selling of data ←
00:05:06 <olyerickson> Conflicts with transparency objective of govt
Conflicts with transparency objective of govt ←
00:05:53 <olyerickson> people like Chris Taggert are concerned because solutions to consultations may go the way of charging for data
people like Chris Taggert are concerned because solutions to consultations may go the way of charging for data ←
00:06:10 <olyerickson> further complicated by fact that UK part of EU
further complicated by fact that UK part of EU ←
00:06:39 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
Phil Archer: zakim, who is here? ←
00:06:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Sandro ←
00:06:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see HadleyBeeman, tlr, olyerickson, bhyland, jkiss, chsiao, PhilA, harlanyu_, Zakim, RRSAgent, edsu, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see HadleyBeeman, tlr, olyerickson, bhyland, jkiss, chsiao, PhilA, harlanyu_, Zakim, RRSAgent, edsu, trackbot, sandro ←
00:06:43 <olyerickson> ... EU *guideline* is that only marginal costs should be charged for data
... EU *guideline* is that only marginal costs should be charged for data ←
00:07:00 <olyerickson> ... plus a "reasonable" rate of return
... plus a "reasonable" rate of return ←
00:07:15 <PhilA> zakim, what is the code?
Phil Archer: zakim, what is the code? ←
00:07:15 <Zakim> the conference code is 26632 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 26632 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA ←
00:07:36 <olyerickson> Further complicated by fact that e.g. Ordnance Survey largely private sector company
Further complicated by fact that e.g. Ordnance Survey largely private sector company ←
00:08:25 <olyerickson> Each of the Consultation documents is roughly 40 pgs long
Each of the Consultation documents is roughly 40 pgs long ←
00:09:30 <olyerickson> Hadley has no idea what will happen. While we'd like all data to be free, the reality is there is data that must be paid for
Hadley has no idea what will happen. While we'd like all data to be free, the reality is there is data that must be paid for ←
00:10:31 <olyerickson> Decision is due "early next year"
Decision is due "early next year" ←
00:10:53 <Zakim> +tpac
Zakim IRC Bot: +tpac ←
00:11:01 <sandro> thanks!
Sandro Hawke: thanks! ←
00:11:07 <PhilA> sandrom can you hear us?
Phil Archer: sandrom can you hear us? ←
00:11:11 <PhilA> Ack
Phil Archer: Ack ←
00:11:12 <sandro> yes
Sandro Hawke: yes ←
00:17:02 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, who is on the phone?
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Hadley Beeman: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
00:17:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, tpac
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Sandro, tpac ←
00:29:33 <PhilA> Topic: Accessibility with Jason Kiss
(No events recorded for 12 minutes)
00:30:09 <PhilA> jkiss: open data isn't really my thing. If I weren't here, would you talk about accessibility?
Jason Kiss: open data isn't really my thing. If I weren't here, would you talk about accessibility? [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:30:31 <PhilA> Jeanne: yes accessibility of gov websites is a topic
Jeanne Holm: yes accessibility of gov websites is a topic [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:31:01 <PhilA> jkiss: section 508 covers all government paid for ICT. cf. Canada it's based on human rights
Jason Kiss: section 508 covers all government paid for ICT. cf. Canada it's based on human rights [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:31:19 <PhilA> jkiss: UK 2010 Equality act mandates that gov sites are accessible
Jason Kiss: UK 2010 Equality act mandates that gov sites are accessible [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:32:07 <PhilA> ... Canada only applies to public websites. Internal ones only have to be accessible to disabled staff so it's common to see inaccessible intranets even though that would break policies
Phil Archer: ... Canada only applies to public websites. Internal ones only have to be accessible to disabled staff so it's common to see inaccessible intranets even though that would break policies ←
00:32:38 <PhilA> ... Australia has govt ICT councils that endorse a strategy that moves to WCAG 2. NZ has a Cabinet Minute
Phil Archer: ... Australia has govt ICT councils that endorse a strategy that moves to WCAG 2. NZ has a Cabinet Minute ←
00:33:14 <PhilA> ... but that's still a rule and that effectively mandates public gov sites are accessible
Phil Archer: ... but that's still a rule and that effectively mandates public gov sites are accessible ←
00:34:23 <PhilA> jkiss: UN mandates accessibility too. Subject to ratification but US is holding it up. It's based on human rights principles
Jason Kiss: UN mandates accessibility too. Subject to ratification but US is holding it up. It's based on human rights principles [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:35:12 <PhilA> ... same problems exist in all gov web teams - lack of skill nad knowledge
Phil Archer: ... same problems exist in all gov web teams - lack of skill nad knowledge ←
00:35:22 <PhilA> ... also most 3rd party web development firms
Phil Archer: ... also most 3rd party web development firms ←
00:35:33 <PhilA> ... some do very well but generally the level of skill is not good
Phil Archer: ... some do very well but generally the level of skill is not good ←
00:36:14 <PhilA> ... intro of HTML and more JS means that web developers have more to learn. Tend to just grab what's available
Phil Archer: ... intro of HTML and more JS means that web developers have more to learn. Tend to just grab what's available ←
00:36:30 <PhilA> ... getting levels of accessibility up is going to be a continued difficulty
Phil Archer: ... getting levels of accessibility up is going to be a continued difficulty ←
00:37:09 <PhilA> ... gets more difficult when we talk about open data. Visualisation of masses of data is really good but that leaves a whole bunch of people unable to access it
Phil Archer: ... gets more difficult when we talk about open data. Visualisation of masses of data is really good but that leaves a whole bunch of people unable to access it ←
00:37:41 <PhilA> ... it can't always be translated into a format that is accessible to a blind person or someone that can't easily use a mouse
Phil Archer: ... it can't always be translated into a format that is accessible to a blind person or someone that can't easily use a mouse ←
00:38:19 <PhilA> Jeanne: Does it help that we're developing for devises that don't have mice?
Jeanne Holm: Does it help that we're developing for devises that don't have mice? [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:39:08 <PhilA> jkiss: I'd say it helps a little. Assistive devices translate keyboard actions etc translate actions into mouse movements
Jason Kiss: I'd say it helps a little. Assistive devices translate keyboard actions etc translate actions into mouse movements [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:39:40 <PhilA> jkiss: There's a really good Aussie assistant that is free cf. Jaws which costs %1K
Jason Kiss: There's a really good Aussie assistant that is free cf. Jaws which costs $1K [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:39:54 <PhilA> s/%/$/
00:40:09 <PhilA> jkiss: it's a fully blown across the board Windows screen reader
Jason Kiss: it's a fully blown across the board Windows screen reader [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:40:28 <PhilA> ... for web browsing I'd say it's better than Jaws
Phil Archer: ... for web browsing I'd say it's better than Jaws ←
00:40:44 <PhilA> jkiss: NVDA Non Visual Desktop Access is the tool
Jason Kiss: NVDA Non Visual Desktop Access is the tool [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:41:36 <PhilA> olyerickson: news stories have been inaccessible to gov websites because the accessibility isn't there
John Erickson: news stories have been inaccessible to gov websites because the accessibility isn't there [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:42:58 <PhilA> ... how does accessibility hamper the new outputs?
Phil Archer: ... how does accessibility hamper the new outputs? ←
00:43:10 <PhilA> ... and how do we need to think about visualisations?
Phil Archer: ... and how do we need to think about visualisations? ←
00:43:57 <PhilA> jkiss: The Canadian govt just wrote a new standard on accessibility to replace the old one - cites WCAG 2 and the new section 508 will do the same
Jason Kiss: The Canadian govt just wrote a new standard on accessibility to replace the old one - cites WCAG 2 and the new section 508 will do the same [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:44:20 <olyerickson> "Section 508" link: http://www.section508.gov/
"Section 508" link: http://www.section508.gov/ ←
00:44:34 <PhilA> ... they've included some exemptions, such as for complex maps, such as radar weather maps
Phil Archer: ... they've included some exemptions, such as for complex maps, such as radar weather maps ←
00:45:23 <PhilA> jkiss: there's an exemption because the tech isn't there yet to avoid an inordinate amount of work to create an alternative representayion
Jason Kiss: there's an exemption because the tech isn't there yet to avoid an inordinate amount of work to create an alternative representayion [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:46:47 <olyerickson> "Aria" link: http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/aria
"Aria" link: http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/aria ←
00:47:58 <PhilA> jkiss: emphasises low cost of doing accessibility at the outset cf. adding it afterwards
Jason Kiss: emphasises low cost of doing accessibility at the outset cf. adding it afterwards [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:48:44 <PhilA> JH: I believe in living by the spirit, not just the letter of 508
Jeanne Holm: I believe in living by the spirit, not just the letter of 508 [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:49:11 <PhilA> ... when I work on any project, meeting 508 is always the last thing they think of
Phil Archer: ... when I work on any project, meeting 508 is always the last thing they think of ←
00:49:50 <PhilA> ... alt="planet" for a beautiful picture of Saturn doesn't quite cutr it
Phil Archer: ... alt="planet" for a beautiful picture of Saturn doesn't quite cutr it ←
00:49:56 <PhilA> s/curt/cut/
Phil Archer: s/curt/cut/ (warning: replacement failed) ←
00:50:25 <PhilA> jh: now we have heavily tagged images - it's a great resource
Jeanne Holm: now we have heavily tagged images - it's a great resource [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
00:50:46 <olyerickson> phila: mobile is very close to accessibility
Phil Archer: mobile is very close to accessibility ←
00:51:21 <olyerickson> ... if you build a mobile site, you automatically achieve (high percentage) of WCAG
... if you build a mobile site, you automatically achieve (high percentage) of WCAG ←
00:51:57 <olyerickson> jkiss: examples include building mobile site first, then following with full site
Jason Kiss: examples include building mobile site first, then following with full site ←
00:52:16 <olyerickson> phila: teaches "responsible web design"
Phil Archer: teaches "responsible web design" ←
00:52:40 <olyerickson> JH: Somestimes shocked at her lack of understanding of accessibility
Jeanne Holm: Somestimes shocked at her lack of understanding of accessibility ←
00:53:18 <olyerickson> ... but there are interesting exceptions, such as secondlife: everything is a map coordinate
... but there are interesting exceptions, such as secondlife: everything is a map coordinate ←
00:54:12 <olyerickson> jh: the question is, how to deal with navigating datasets
Jeanne Holm: the question is, how to deal with navigating datasets ←
00:54:26 <olyerickson> jkiss: format will help
Jason Kiss: format will help ←
00:55:06 <olyerickson> JH: Need to build out list of resources, in this case list of policies
Jeanne Holm: Need to build out list of resources, in this case list of policies ←
00:55:41 <olyerickson> action: jiss to provide list on international policies and guidelines on accessibility
ACTION: jiss to provide list on international policies and guidelines on accessibility ←
00:55:41 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - jiss
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - jiss ←
00:55:58 <olyerickson> action: jkiss to provide list on international policies and guidelines on accessibility
ACTION: jkiss to provide list on international policies and guidelines on accessibility ←
00:55:58 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - jkiss
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - jkiss ←
00:56:49 <olyerickson> jkiss: the "5 nations" have expressed accessibility standards
Jason Kiss: the "5 nations" have expressed accessibility standards ←
00:57:08 <olyerickson> ... UK is least 'formalized"
... UK is least 'formalized" ←
00:57:28 <olyerickson> ... UK; "directive on accessible web sites"
... UK; "directive on accessible web sites" ←
00:57:55 <olyerickson> HB: Does UK work? Allows for common sense to be applied
Hadley Beeman: Does UK work? Allows for common sense to be applied ←
00:58:57 <olyerickson> jkiss: WCAG-2 a leap forward from WCAG-1. Concern over loose guidance, could lead to restrictions that are not necessary
Jason Kiss: WCAG-2 a leap forward from WCAG-1. Concern over loose guidance, could lead to restrictions that are not necessary ←
00:59:46 <olyerickson> ... some cases where stronger guidance might lead to better/more accessible results
... some cases where stronger guidance might lead to better/more accessible results ←
01:00:11 <olyerickson> ... BUT if common sense is working, then that's great!
... BUT if common sense is working, then that's great! ←
01:01:31 <olyerickson> jkiss: common/shared services, common look and feel, etc are good things; you start off automatically accessible
Jason Kiss: common/shared services, common look and feel, etc are good things; you start off automatically accessible ←
01:01:59 <olyerickson> phila: Should we talk about archiving/records management?
Phil Archer: Should we talk about archiving/records management? ←
01:03:13 <olyerickson> Natl Archives is chartered with all of UK records management
Natl Archives is chartered with all of UK records management ←
01:06:02 <olyerickson> BS 8878 http://bit.ly/t9CM8X
BS 8878 http://bit.ly/t9CM8X ←
01:06:24 <olyerickson> "Draft BS 8878:2009 Web accessibility. Building accessible experiences for disabled people. Code of practice" http://bit.ly/t9CM8X
"Draft BS 8878:2009 Web accessibility. Building accessible experiences for disabled people. Code of practice" http://bit.ly/t9CM8X ←
01:07:54 <olyerickson> "Cultural capital for WCAG"
"Cultural capital for WCAG" ←
01:09:55 <olyerickson> discussion of W3C recommendation imprimatur
discussion of W3C recommendation imprimatur ←
01:10:20 <olyerickson> TOPIC: Tomorrow
01:10:27 <olyerickson> reconvience at 9a
reconvience at 9a ←
01:11:25 <PhilA> olyerickson: I'll lead a social media free for all tomorrow morning
John Erickson: I'll lead a social media free for all tomorrow morning [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
01:11:41 <PhilA> ... there are several issues for us to talk around
Phil Archer: ... there are several issues for us to talk around ←
01:12:07 <PhilA> JH: The world and social media are changing
Jeanne Holm: The world and social media are changing [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
01:12:35 <PhilA> ... we should have a sense of how it impacts governments
Phil Archer: ... we should have a sense of how it impacts governments ←
01:13:01 <PhilA> jh: Then Anne Fitzgerald from Aus will call in to talk about licensing
Jeanne Holm: Then Anne Fitzgerald from Aus will call in to talk about licensing [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
01:13:15 <PhilA> ... then Bernadette will talk about the directory
Phil Archer: ... then Bernadette will talk about the directory ←
01:13:31 <PhilA> ... then John is back on after lunch to talk about E&O
Phil Archer: ... then John is back on after lunch to talk about E&O ←
01:13:56 <PhilA> Meeting adjourning at 18:13
Phil Archer: Meeting adjourning at 18:13 ←
01:17:19 <PhilA> rrsagent, generate minutes
Phil Archer: rrsagent, generate minutes ←
01:17:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/01-egov-minutes.html PhilA
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/01-egov-minutes.html PhilA ←
01:19:14 <HadleyBeeman> UK's public data principles: http://data.gov.uk/blog/new-public-sector-transparency-board-and-public-data-transparency-principles
Hadley Beeman: UK's public data principles: http://data.gov.uk/blog/new-public-sector-transparency-board-and-public-data-transparency-principles ←
01:25:22 <Zakim> -tpac
(No events recorded for 6 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: -tpac ←
01:25:23 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
01:25:23 <Zakim> Team_(egov)23:54Z has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(egov)23:54Z has ended ←
01:25:24 <Zakim> Attendees were Sandro, tpac
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Sandro, tpac ←
Formatted by CommonScribe