edit

eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference

Minutes of 27 May 2009

Seen
Adam Harvey, Anne Washington, Brand Niemann, Daniel Bennett, Dave McAllister, Hugh Barnes, Joe Carmel, John Sheridan, José Alonso, Kevin Novak, Owen Ambur, Rachel Flagg, Sharron Rush, Unknown Ken, Unknown rick
Chair
John Sheridan, Kevin Novak
Scribe
Daniel Bennett
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics

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12:58:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-egov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-egov-irc

12:58:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public

12:58:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be EGOV

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be EGOV

12:58:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot, I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM already started

12:58:25 <trackbot> Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
12:58:25 <trackbot> Date: 27 May 2009
12:58:34 <josema> chair: john, kevin
12:58:41 <josema> scribe: daniel

(Scribe set to Daniel Bennett)

12:58:42 <hughb> josema: 11pm

José Alonso: 11pm [ Scribe Assist by Hugh Barnes ]

12:58:47 <Daniel_Bennett> i have 8:58

i have 8:58

12:58:50 <josema> scribeNick: Daniel_Bennett
12:59:25 <Zakim> + +1.202.319.aacc - is perhaps Daniel_Bennett

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.319.aacc - is perhaps Daniel_Bennett

12:59:30 <Daniel_Bennett> yes

yes

12:59:43 <Zakim> + +1.410.992.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.410.992.aadd

12:59:47 <josema> zakim, Daniel_Bennett? is Daniel_Bennett

José Alonso: zakim, Daniel_Bennett? is Daniel_Bennett

12:59:47 <Zakim> sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'Daniel_Bennett?'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'Daniel_Bennett?'

12:59:53 <josema> zakim, who's here?

José Alonso: zakim, who's here?

12:59:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see aharvey, hughb, Sharron, Daniel_Bennett, +1.410.992.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see aharvey, hughb, Sharron, Daniel_Bennett, +1.410.992.aadd

12:59:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see Owen, RRSAgent, Sharron, Zakim, Daniel_Bennett, MoZ, aharvey, hughb, josema, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Owen, RRSAgent, Sharron, Zakim, Daniel_Bennett, MoZ, aharvey, hughb, josema, trackbot

13:00:28 <Zakim> +Josema

Zakim IRC Bot: +Josema

13:00:35 <Zakim> + +1.202.564.aaee - is perhaps Brand?

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.564.aaee - is perhaps Brand?

13:01:36 <josema> zakim, who's here?

José Alonso: zakim, who's here?

13:01:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see aharvey, hughb, Sharron, Daniel_Bennett, +1.410.992.aadd, Josema, Brand?

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see aharvey, hughb, Sharron, Daniel_Bennett, +1.410.992.aadd, Josema, Brand?

13:01:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see Owen, RRSAgent, Sharron, Zakim, Daniel_Bennett, MoZ, aharvey, hughb, josema, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Owen, RRSAgent, Sharron, Zakim, Daniel_Bennett, MoZ, aharvey, hughb, josema, trackbot

13:01:48 <Zakim> +Kevin

Zakim IRC Bot: +Kevin

13:02:05 <Daniel_Bennett> sounds like people forgot to get coffee

sounds like people forgot to get coffee

13:02:33 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:02:33 <Zakim> +Rachel

Zakim IRC Bot: +Rachel

13:03:08 <josema> zakim, [IPcaller] is owen

José Alonso: zakim, [IPcaller] is owen

13:03:08 <Zakim> +owen; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +owen; got it

13:03:14 <aharvey> leave

Adam Harvey: leave

13:03:18 <josema> agenda?

José Alonso: agenda?

13:03:30 <Daniel_Bennett> Please say who is speaking when you start speaking. thanks

Please say who is speaking when you start speaking. thanks

13:03:40 <Daniel_Bennett> boo hoo

boo hoo

13:04:02 <Daniel_Bennett> no problem

no problem

13:04:50 <Daniel_Bennett> daniel@citizencontact.com

daniel@citizencontact.com

13:06:18 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin- will talk about White House call on Thurs in agenda 2

Kevin- will talk about White House call on Thurs in agenda 2

13:06:25 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose- ok

Jose- ok

13:06:42 <josema> zakim, who's here?

José Alonso: zakim, who's here?

13:06:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see aharvey, hughb, Sharron, Daniel_Bennett, +1.410.992.aadd, Josema, Brand?, Kevin, owen, Rachel

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see aharvey, hughb, Sharron, Daniel_Bennett, +1.410.992.aadd, Josema, Brand?, Kevin, owen, Rachel

13:06:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see aharvey, Rachel, kevin, joec, Owen, RRSAgent, Sharron, Zakim, Daniel_Bennett, MoZ, hughb, josema, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see aharvey, Rachel, kevin, joec, Owen, RRSAgent, Sharron, Zakim, Daniel_Bennett, MoZ, hughb, josema, trackbot

13:06:46 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin start meeting

Kevin start meeting

13:07:20 <josema> zakim, take up next agendum

José Alonso: zakim, take up next agendum

13:07:20 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Agenda adjustments" taken up [from josema]

1. Agenda adjustments

13:07:23 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin - news of data.gov

Kevin - news of data.gov

13:07:32 <josema> zakim, take up next agendum

José Alonso: zakim, take up next agendum

13:07:32 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, josema

Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 1 was just opened, josema

13:07:36 <josema> zakim, close this agendum

José Alonso: zakim, close this agendum

13:07:37 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed

Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 1 closed

13:07:38 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

Zakim IRC Bot: I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

13:07:39 <Zakim> 2. Data.gov and more what's going on [from josema]

Zakim IRC Bot: 2. Data.gov and more what's going on [from josema]

13:07:40 <josema> zakim, take up next agendum

José Alonso: zakim, take up next agendum

13:07:40 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Data.gov and more what's going on" taken up [from josema]

2. Data.gov and more what's going on

13:07:53 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin - mentions http://opengov.ideascale.com/

Kevin - mentions http://opengov.ideascale.com/

13:08:16 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin- Beth N. has new title [congrats]

Kevin Novak: Beth N. has new title [congrats]

13:08:32 <josema> s/-/:
13:08:54 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin - takeaways - 1. furthering transparency

Kevin : takeaways : 1. furthering transparency

13:08:58 <josema> s/-/:
13:09:36 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: concept behind launch of site is to hear best recommendations

Kevin Novak: concept behind launch of site is to hear best recommendations

13:10:05 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: remarks on call pointed to short timeframe

Kevin Novak: remarks on call pointed to short timeframe

13:11:01 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: 2nd round will show best recommendations into a second level that goes out to agencies for comments

Kevin Novak: 2nd round will show best recommendations into a second level that goes out to agencies for comments

13:11:48 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: already effort ongoing beyond the NAPA process too

Kevin Novak: already effort ongoing beyond the NAPA process too

13:12:10 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: can the recommendations be put forward as regs is a question

Kevin Novak: can the recommendations be put forward as regs is a question

13:12:31 <josema> q?

José Alonso: q?

13:12:42 <Daniel_Bennett> "it may be till end of the year till much happens"

"it may be till end of the year till much happens"

13:13:23 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: a lot of data.gov conversation. but many questions about why.

Kevin Novak: a lot of data.gov conversation. but many questions about why.

13:13:53 <Zakim> +Ken

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ken

13:13:56 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: Suzanne had clued folks into a memo that asked for top 5 data sources (to answer questions)

Kevin Novak: Suzanne had clued folks into a memo that asked for top 5 data sources (to answer questions)

13:14:38 <Daniel_Bennett> "were some people struggling for reason for datasets released.

"were some people struggling for reason for datasets released.

13:14:39 <Daniel_Bennett> "

"

13:15:12 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: my own comments were positive for having larger discussion with public

Kevin Novak: my own comments were positive for having larger discussion with public

13:15:57 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: looking to put together list of orgs to contact

Kevin Novak: looking to put together list of orgs to contact

13:16:40 <Zakim> +john

Zakim IRC Bot: +john

13:16:42 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: What is our goal toward the data.gov process (our meaning w3c egov IG)

Joe Carmel: What is our goal toward the data.gov process (our meaning w3c egov IG)

13:16:44 <josema> zakim, Daniel_Bennett is joec

José Alonso: zakim, Daniel_Bennett is joec

13:16:44 <Zakim> +joec; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +joec; got it

13:16:52 <josema> zakim, aadd is Daniel_Bennett

José Alonso: zakim, aadd is Daniel_Bennett

13:16:52 <Zakim> +Daniel_Bennett; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Daniel_Bennett; got it

13:17:06 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel_Bennett is daniel bennett

Daniel_Bennett is daniel bennett

13:17:16 <Daniel_Bennett> Joec is Joe Carmel

Joec is Joe Carmel

13:17:36 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: we discussed this issue

Kevin Novak: we discussed this issue

13:17:50 <josema> yup, thanks daniel, it was just that zakim confused both, it's fine now :)

José Alonso: yup, thanks daniel, it was just that zakim confused both, it's fine now :)

13:18:08 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: how can we participate?

Joe Carmel: how can we participate?

13:18:19 <josema> q?

José Alonso: q?

13:18:39 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel: should we post group note to Open Govt. Dialogue NAPA site?

Daniel Bennett: should we post group note to Open Govt. Dialogue NAPA site?

13:19:16 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: we had brought the group note to some in us gov upon publication

Kevin Novak: we had brought the group note to some in us gov upon publication

13:20:42 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: in that gov put up not ready for prime time version a good place to start

Joe Carmel: in that gov put up not ready for prime time version a good place to start

13:21:18 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: media was looking for criticism. I was positive to the effort.

Kevin Novak: media was looking for criticism. I was positive to the effort.

13:21:29 <Zakim> +[LC]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[LC]

13:21:44 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: so many questions going around. this is a method for moving forward.

Kevin Novak: so many questions going around. this is a method for moving forward.

13:22:03 <annew> yes!

Anne Washington: yes!

13:22:09 <josema> zakim, [LC] is annew

José Alonso: zakim, [LC] is annew

13:22:09 <Zakim> +annew; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +annew; got it

13:22:12 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel: should we post group note to Open Govt. Dialogue NAPA site?

Daniel Bennett: should we post group note to Open Govt. Dialogue NAPA site?

13:22:24 <josema> hi, anne! so great to see you around :)

José Alonso: hi, anne! so great to see you around :)

13:22:36 <annew> glad to be here

Anne Washington: glad to be here

13:22:41 <joec> hi anne

Joe Carmel: hi anne

13:22:54 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: I put up my xml version of the data.gov site for people to play with http://www.xmldatasets.net/data.gov/catalog.xml

Joe Carmel: I put up my xml version of the data.gov site for people to play with http://www.xmldatasets.net/data.gov/catalog.xml

13:22:55 <josema> topic: data.gov

3. data.gov

13:23:09 <annew> hi joe.

Anne Washington: hi joe.

13:23:52 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: what was the acronym?

Joe Carmel: what was the acronym?

13:24:26 <Daniel_Bennett> John: registration of information. makes a catalog that is human readable

John Sheridan: registration of information. makes a catalog that is human readable

13:24:36 <Daniel_Bennett> Anne: is it a periodical

Anne Washington: is it a periodical

13:24:38 <josema> [http://www.epsiplus.net/content/download/15123/189429/file/Information%20Asset%20Registers%20(OPSI%20Discussion%20Paper)%2010%20Sep%2008.pdf]

José Alonso: [http://www.epsiplus.net/content/download/15123/189429/file/Information%20Asset%20Registers%20(OPSI%20Discussion%20Paper)%2010%20Sep%2008.pdf]

13:24:44 <Daniel_Bennett> Anne: ?

Anne Washington: ?

13:24:45 <josema> wondeful URI, isn't it? ;)

José Alonso: wondeful URI, isn't it? ;)

13:24:56 <Daniel_Bennett> Anne: is it like GILS?

Anne Washington: is it like GILS?

13:24:59 <Owen> Sorry, Kevin. I was multi-tasking, taking another call when you called upon me just now.

Owen Ambur: Sorry, Kevin. I was multi-tasking, taking another call when you called upon me just now.

13:25:03 <Daniel_Bennett> John: yes, Anne

John Sheridan: yes, Anne

13:25:35 <Daniel_Bennett> John: catalog descriptions is good to a point. linking is missed.

John Sheridan: catalog descriptions is good to a point. linking is missed.

13:26:53 <Daniel_Bennett> John: let me give an example

John Sheridan: let me give an example

13:27:12 <Daniel_Bennett> "if geo info is mentioned, then I could find it"

...if geo info is mentioned, then I could find it"

13:27:31 <Daniel_Bennett> "but another model is to have URI for each location"

...but another model is to have URI for each location"

13:27:40 <josema> s/"if/...if
13:27:49 <josema> s/"but/...but
13:27:57 <Daniel_Bennett> "but then I can go to a search location using URI for a set location"

...but then I can go to a search location using URI for a set location"

13:28:01 <josema> s/"but/...but
13:28:41 <Daniel_Bennett> "and this is a linked system for URIs rather than just general catalog metadata system"

...and this is a linked system for URIs rather than just general catalog metadata system"

13:28:51 <josema> s/"and/...and
13:29:07 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: you still need datasets to be published

Joe Carmel: you still need datasets to be published

13:29:17 <Daniel_Bennett> John: agreed

John Sheridan: agreed

13:30:19 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: if you RDF it then the information then it can be discovered

Joe Carmel: if you RDF it then the information then it can be discovered

13:30:48 <Zakim> + +1.202.219.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.219.aaff

13:30:49 <Daniel_Bennett> John: yes, but not saying that that is the only solution

John Sheridan: yes, but not saying that that is the only solution

13:31:59 <Daniel_Bennett> Brand: did a google search that energy with data.gov

Brand Niemann: did a google search that energy with data.gov

13:32:23 <Daniel_Bennett> Brand: I get a URL, but not real answer

Brand Niemann: I get a URL, but not real answer

13:32:44 <Daniel_Bennett> Anne: are we asking to find the dataset or a piece of data?

Anne Washington: are we asking to find the dataset or a piece of data?

13:34:55 <john> q+

John Sheridan: q+

13:35:43 <josema> ack jo

José Alonso: ack jo

13:35:45 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel: talked alot

Daniel Bennett: talked alot

13:36:07 <aharvey> :)

Adam Harvey: :)

13:36:34 <josema> uh, oh, datapedia is coming

José Alonso: uh, oh, datapedia is coming

13:38:02 <annew> wiki.dbpedia.org apparently...

Anne Washington: wiki.dbpedia.org apparently...

13:38:07 <john> are you saying we don't need dbpedia?

John Sheridan: are you saying we don't need dbpedia?

13:38:35 <john> I think dbpedia adds value, no?

John Sheridan: I think dbpedia adds value, no?

13:38:47 <josema> I think Daniel is saying that as far as one can guess the underlying structure of the data it's fine

José Alonso: I think Daniel is saying that as far as one can guess the underlying structure of the data it's fine

13:39:19 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel: mainly about need to use WWW of domains to say where a dataset is and having a decent structure to the data, that can be enough

Daniel Bennett: mainly about need to use WWW of domains to say where a dataset is and having a decent structure to the data, that can be enough

13:39:27 <Daniel_Bennett> yes, Jose

yes, Jose

13:39:53 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: fundamental problem of semantics

Joe Carmel: fundamental problem of semantics

13:40:00 <annew> I thought daniel was saying that we should be able to scrape the data from any web page. standards or no.

Anne Washington: I thought daniel was saying that we should be able to scrape the data from any web page. standards or no.

13:40:45 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: if one org is trying to standardize temp, that may be impossible across all orgs

Joe Carmel: if one org is trying to standardize temp, that may be impossible across all orgs

13:40:50 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes

José Alonso: rrsagent, draft minutes

13:40:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-egov-minutes.html josema

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-egov-minutes.html josema

13:41:26 <josema> zakim, who's here?

José Alonso: zakim, who's here?

13:41:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see aharvey, hughb, Sharron, joec, Daniel_Bennett, Josema, Brand?, Kevin, owen, Rachel, Ken, john, annew, +1.202.219.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see aharvey, hughb, Sharron, joec, Daniel_Bennett, Josema, Brand?, Kevin, owen, Rachel, Ken, john, annew, +1.202.219.aaff

13:41:27 <Daniel_Bennett> Anne, as long as the web site /data is using standard web/xhtml or xml w/ xsl

Anne, as long as the web site /data is using standard web/xhtml or xml w/ xsl

13:41:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see annew, john, aharvey, Rachel, kevin, joec, Owen, RRSAgent, Sharron, Zakim, Daniel_Bennett, MoZ, hughb, josema, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see annew, john, aharvey, Rachel, kevin, joec, Owen, RRSAgent, Sharron, Zakim, Daniel_Bennett, MoZ, hughb, josema, trackbot

13:41:55 <john> agree, we are missing the URI concept with data catalogues

John Sheridan: agree, we are missing the URI concept with data catalogues

13:41:58 <josema> zakim, list attendees

José Alonso: zakim, list attendees

13:41:58 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.216.443.aaaa, aharvey, +0073411aabb, Sharron, hughb, +1.202.319.aacc, +1.410.992.aadd, Josema, +1.202.564.aaee, Kevin, Rachel, owen,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been +1.216.443.aaaa, aharvey, +0073411aabb, Sharron, hughb, +1.202.319.aacc, +1.410.992.aadd, Josema, +1.202.564.aaee, Kevin, Rachel, owen,

13:42:02 <Zakim> ... Ken, john, joec, Daniel_Bennett, annew, +1.202.219.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: ... Ken, john, joec, Daniel_Bennett, annew, +1.202.219.aaff

13:42:12 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes

José Alonso: rrsagent, draft minutes

13:42:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-egov-minutes.html josema

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-egov-minutes.html josema

13:42:37 <Daniel_Bennett> Ken:  perhaps there is a way for important buildings in federal blds for example, that can be a standard

Scribe problem: the name 'Ken' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Kendall Clark Ken Fischer . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown Ken: perhaps there is a way for important buildings in federal blds for example, that can be a standard

13:43:04 <john> we use URIs to disambiguate

John Sheridan: we use URIs to disambiguate

13:43:06 <Daniel_Bennett> Ken: we need a good blend of web and semantic standards

Scribe problem: the name 'Ken' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Kendall Clark Ken Fischer . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Unknown Ken: we need a good blend of web and semantic standards

13:43:53 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: wikipedia is an example of a centralized data

Joe Carmel: wikipedia is an example of a centralized data

13:45:05 <josema> daniel, anne, I think "valid" is not enough (in fact it's not even needed in many cases), I think the interesting point is to be able to guess what the data is about, what's the structure, as daniel mentioned e.g. microformats for geop, even better if some sort of XML or RDF

José Alonso: daniel, anne, I think "valid" is not enough (in fact it's not even needed in many cases), I think the interesting point is to be able to guess what the data is about, what's the structure, as daniel mentioned e.g. microformats for geop, even better if some sort of XML or RDF

13:46:37 <john> does an agency have a location? or does only a building? (something purely topographical)

John Sheridan: does an agency have a location? or does only a building? (something purely topographical)

13:46:53 <Daniel_Bennett> Owen: we should move to XML instead of RDF

Owen Ambur: we should move to XML instead of RDF

13:47:03 <josema> zakim, aaff is rick

José Alonso: zakim, aaff is rick

13:47:03 <Zakim> +rick; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +rick; got it

13:47:04 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel: more long talking

Daniel Bennett: more long talking

13:47:31 <Daniel_Bennett> Rick: not a good model for world, Owen

Scribe problem: the name 'Rick' does not match any of the 56 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Adam Harvey Aldo Gangemi Amit Parashar Anne Washington Ari Schwartz Bede McCall Brand Niemann Christopher Testa Dalila Chiadmi Daniel Bennett Dave McAllister David Osimo Faisal Monai George Thomas Hugh Barnes Ilker Karakas Jacob Mumm Jeremiah Albrant Joe Carmel John Sheridan John Wonderlich Jonathan Gray José Alonso Juan Rodríguez Rodríguez Katie Haritos-Shea Ken Fischer Kendall Clark Kevin Novak Laila Benhlima Lanfranco Marasso Luigi Selmi Malcolm Crompton Maria Fernandez Ruiz Miguel Amutio Mohamed ZERGAOUI Oscar Azanon Esteire Owen Ambur Pasquale Popolizio Pietro Russo Rachel Flagg Richard Murphy Rinke Hoekstra Roberto Castaldo Robin Berjon Rowan Smith Sharron Rush Suzanne Acar Tanya Gupta Tim McMahon Tom van Engers Trond Undheim Vagner Diniz Vassilios Peristeras Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Rick: not a good model for world, Owen

13:48:30 <john> horses for courses, no?

John Sheridan: horses for courses, no?

13:48:38 <josema> I said this a million times, for me it's about chosing the right tool for the job, and I can ellaborate

José Alonso: I said this a million times, for me it's about chosing the right tool for the job, and I can ellaborate on that

13:48:55 <josema> s/ellaborate/ellaborate on that
13:49:03 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel: W3C has combined XML with RDF into XHTML+RDFa

Daniel Bennett: W3C has combined XML with RDF into XHTML+RDFa

13:49:21 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: let a million flowers bloom

Joe Carmel: let a million flowers bloom

13:49:26 <annew> Thank you daniel for some diplomatic skills

Anne Washington: Thank you daniel for some diplomatic skills

13:50:01 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: we should talk about best practices, not complete answers

Kevin Novak: we should talk about best practices, not complete answers

13:50:30 <josema> q+ to talk about not going the RDF vs. XML way

José Alonso: q+ to talk about not going the RDF vs. XML way

13:50:33 <Owen> Correction:  I did not say not to use XML *instead* of RDF.

Scribe problem: the name 'Correction' does not match any of the 56 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Adam Harvey Aldo Gangemi Amit Parashar Anne Washington Ari Schwartz Bede McCall Brand Niemann Christopher Testa Dalila Chiadmi Daniel Bennett Dave McAllister David Osimo Faisal Monai George Thomas Hugh Barnes Ilker Karakas Jacob Mumm Jeremiah Albrant Joe Carmel John Sheridan John Wonderlich Jonathan Gray José Alonso Juan Rodríguez Rodríguez Katie Haritos-Shea Ken Fischer Kendall Clark Kevin Novak Laila Benhlima Lanfranco Marasso Luigi Selmi Malcolm Crompton Maria Fernandez Ruiz Miguel Amutio Mohamed ZERGAOUI Oscar Azanon Esteire Owen Ambur Pasquale Popolizio Pietro Russo Rachel Flagg Richard Murphy Rinke Hoekstra Roberto Castaldo Robin Berjon Rowan Smith Sharron Rush Suzanne Acar Tanya Gupta Tim McMahon Tom van Engers Trond Undheim Vagner Diniz Vassilios Peristeras Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Correction: I did not say not to use XML *instead* of RDF. [ Scribe Assist by Owen Ambur ]

13:50:42 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: we can use different things. but we should talk about it.

Joe Carmel: we can use different things. but we should talk about it.

13:51:11 <Daniel_Bennett> Anne: we have different ways to do things and we should have levels of completeness.

Anne Washington: we have different ways to do things and we should have levels of completeness.

13:51:21 <Owen> If we want folks to use RDF OR XML, we should help them do so.

Owen Ambur: If we want folks to use RDF OR XML, we should help them do so.

13:51:29 <john> whatever format you use (including Excel), we should be pushing for good uris

John Sheridan: whatever format you use (including Excel), we should be pushing for good uris

13:51:44 <josema> +1 to owen!

José Alonso: +1 to owen!

13:52:00 <Daniel_Bennett> john, we should use URLs if possible

john, we should use URLs if possible

13:52:01 <annew> Quick and dirty with a minimal amount of reusability. i.e. Joe's example of using .csv instead of .xls

Anne Washington: Quick and dirty with a minimal amount of reusability. i.e. Joe's example of using .csv instead of .xls

13:52:27 <aharvey> +1 to Anne's point

Adam Harvey: +1 to Anne's point

13:52:30 <josema> +1 to anne, too

José Alonso: +1 to anne, too

13:52:33 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: lets use some use quick and dirty methods.

Joe Carmel: lets use some use quick and dirty methods.

13:52:51 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose, please go ahead

Jose, please go ahead

13:53:33 <john> q?

John Sheridan: q?

13:53:37 <Daniel_Bennett> Dave: first point to documentation

Dave McAllister: first point to documentation

13:54:08 <Owen> Documentation can be published in xsd:documentation elements within XML schemas.

Owen Ambur: Documentation can be published in xsd:documentation elements within XML schemas.

13:54:12 <john> +1 josema

John Sheridan: +1 josema

13:54:23 <kevin> +1 Josema

Kevin Novak: +1 Josema

13:54:25 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose: let us not go into xml vs. rdf.

José Alonso: let us not go into xml vs. rdf.

13:54:53 <Owen> Why not suggest best practices for both?

Owen Ambur: Why not suggest best practices for both?

13:55:00 <john> rdf is really bad for legislation documents for example...

John Sheridan: rdf is really bad for legislation documents for example...

13:55:04 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose: some cases we have different sources, we need to just get better data.

José Alonso: some cases we have different sources, we need to just get better data.

13:55:46 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose: GRDDL is an interesting way to expose data

José Alonso: GRDDL is an interesting way to expose data

13:55:47 <john> also, there's lots to say for xhtml, no? as a great format ;)

John Sheridan: also, there's lots to say for xhtml, no? as a great format ;)

13:56:28 <annew> john: yes agree about rdf and leg docs. working on a leg schema. ...another discussion

John Sheridan: yes agree about rdf and leg docs. working on a leg schema. ...another discussion [ Scribe Assist by Anne Washington ]

13:57:00 <annew> I have a meeting on the hour. Hope the conversation goes back to interoperability issue in John's email.

Anne Washington: I have a meeting on the hour. Hope the conversation goes back to interoperability issue in John's email.

13:57:08 <josema> sure, namely XHTML2!

José Alonso: sure, namely XHTML2!

13:57:11 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose: concentrate on releasing

José Alonso: concentrate on releasing

13:58:31 <josema> one can apply GRDDL to XHTML(2) then get RDF (and XHTML(2) is XML in the end) isn't it wonderful?

José Alonso: one can apply GRDDL to XHTML(2) then get RDF (and XHTML(2) is XML in the end) isn't it wonderful?

13:59:10 <josema> Daniel: BP1 = Documentation; BP2 = Standardization

Daniel Bennett: BP1 = Documentation; BP2 = Standardization [ Scribe Assist by José Alonso ]

13:59:24 <annew> Anne's gotta go. Next time and online. Bye

Anne Washington: Anne's gotta go. Next time and online. Bye

13:59:30 <hughb> best practice for semantically exposing data

Hugh Barnes: best practice for semantically exposing data

13:59:32 <john> cheers Anne

John Sheridan: cheers Anne

13:59:32 <annew> bye

Anne Washington: bye

13:59:36 <Zakim> -annew

Zakim IRC Bot: -annew

13:59:56 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel: talks a bit about BP of documentation

Daniel Bennett: talks a bit about BP of documentation

14:00:14 <Daniel_Bennett> bye Anne

bye Anne

14:01:13 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: that data.gov does point to some documentation

Joe Carmel: that data.gov does point to some documentation

14:01:33 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose: we should move to next agenda item

José Alonso: we should move to next agenda item

14:01:49 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: lets cover the Open Gov call

Kevin Novak: lets cover the Open Gov call first

14:01:57 <josema> s/call/call first
14:02:09 <john> I agree

John Sheridan: I agree

14:02:43 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose: let me mention, I dont know how w3c will act.

José Alonso: let me mention, I dont know how w3c will act yet.

14:02:46 <Owen> One of the things the eGov IG could do is suggest additional datasets to include in Data.gov

Owen Ambur: One of the things the eGov IG could do is suggest additional datasets to include in Data.gov

14:04:08 <Owen> One dataset that might be good to include in Data.gov is the Paperwork Reduction Act (PRA) dataset: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/inforeg_xmlreports/

Owen Ambur: One dataset that might be good to include in Data.gov is the Paperwork Reduction Act (PRA) dataset: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/inforeg_xmlreports/

14:04:10 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose: we will discuss whether data.gov is responded to. needs concensus

José Alonso: we will discuss whether data.gov is responded to. needs concensus

14:05:35 <josema> s/act/act yet
14:05:47 <hughb> +1

Hugh Barnes: +1

14:05:47 <john> hmm - is that the right place to do that?

John Sheridan: hmm - is that the right place to do that?

14:06:08 <john> shouldn't we talk more generically?

John Sheridan: shouldn't we talk more generically?

14:07:01 <john> eg if you are a gov and want to surface data, data..gov is worth a look; it's great. If you wanted to do more, you could do x, y and z

John Sheridan: eg if you are a gov and want to surface data, data..gov is worth a look; it's great. If you wanted to do more, you could do x, y and z

14:07:11 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel: we should have a w3c egov hosted discussion board

Daniel Bennett: we should have a w3c egov hosted discussion board

14:07:20 <josema> I like more john's approach

José Alonso: I like more john's approach

14:07:24 <aharvey> +1 to john

Adam Harvey: +1 to john

14:08:18 <john> happy for the ig to talk about gov data, less happy talking about just data.gov; albeit a great and startling and important initiative

John Sheridan: happy for the ig to talk about gov data, less happy talking about just data.gov; albeit a great and startling and important initiative

14:08:19 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: I agree that there is only a short amount of time. we should put together consensus doc

Kevin Novak: I agree that there is only a short amount of time. we should put together consensus eGov IG doc

14:08:50 <josema> s/doc/eGov IG doc
14:09:30 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: like John put up generic comments. also have a blog with individual commentors.

Kevin Novak: like John put up generic comments. also have a blog with individual commentors.

14:09:56 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: blog is good idea.

Kevin Novak: blog is good idea.

14:10:01 <john> +1

John Sheridan: +1

14:10:19 <Daniel_Bennett> +1 enthusiastically

+1 enthusiastically

14:11:06 <josema> +1, too

José Alonso: +1, too

14:11:25 <hughb> bye

Hugh Barnes: bye

14:11:30 <Zakim> -hughb

Zakim IRC Bot: -hughb

14:11:50 <josema> agenda?

José Alonso: agenda?

14:11:53 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: would this be in addition to examples?

Joe Carmel: would this be in addition to examples?

14:12:16 <Daniel_Bennett> what agenda are we on? still on 2?

what agenda are we on? still on 2?

14:12:35 <john> yup, still on 2 I think

John Sheridan: yup, still on 2 I think

14:13:27 <Daniel_Bennett> Joe: we are hoping to create a page off of the wiki key ideas as well as blog

Joe Carmel: we are hoping to create a page off of the wiki key ideas as well as blog

14:13:33 <josema> yup

José Alonso: yup

14:14:43 <kevin> LOL

Kevin Novak: LOL

14:14:57 <Daniel_Bennett> ROTFL

ROTFL

14:15:00 <john> q+

John Sheridan: q+

14:15:05 <josema> q-

José Alonso: q-

14:15:21 <josema> ack jo

José Alonso: ack jo

14:15:45 <Daniel_Bennett> John: I agree with Joe on doing experimentation as well as doing comments

John Sheridan: I agree with Joe on doing experimentation as well as doing comments

14:16:04 <Owen> I agree with Joe too.

Owen Ambur: I agree with Joe too.

14:16:15 <Daniel_Bennett> John: we can bring a broader perspective

John Sheridan: we can bring a broader perspective

14:16:25 <Daniel_Bennett> scribe notes only 14 minutes left

scribe notes only 14 minutes left

14:16:54 <josema> agenda?

José Alonso: agenda?

14:16:57 <Daniel_Bennett> and 2 agenda items left

and 2 agenda items left

14:17:44 <Daniel_Bennett> can we vote? blog, no blog. experiments, no experiments.

can we vote? blog, no blog. experiments, no experiments.

14:17:45 <Zakim> -rick

Scribe problem: the name 'rick' does not match any of the 56 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Adam Harvey Aldo Gangemi Amit Parashar Anne Washington Ari Schwartz Bede McCall Brand Niemann Christopher Testa Dalila Chiadmi Daniel Bennett Dave McAllister David Osimo Faisal Monai George Thomas Hugh Barnes Ilker Karakas Jacob Mumm Jeremiah Albrant Joe Carmel John Sheridan John Wonderlich Jonathan Gray José Alonso Juan Rodríguez Rodríguez Katie Haritos-Shea Ken Fischer Kendall Clark Kevin Novak Laila Benhlima Lanfranco Marasso Luigi Selmi Malcolm Crompton Maria Fernandez Ruiz Miguel Amutio Mohamed ZERGAOUI Oscar Azanon Esteire Owen Ambur Pasquale Popolizio Pietro Russo Rachel Flagg Richard Murphy Rinke Hoekstra Roberto Castaldo Robin Berjon Rowan Smith Sharron Rush Suzanne Acar Tanya Gupta Tim McMahon Tom van Engers Trond Undheim Vagner Diniz Vassilios Peristeras Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -rick

14:17:51 <josema> chairs?

José Alonso: chairs?

14:18:26 <john> blog is good, gives us some flex; lets move on ;)

John Sheridan: blog is good, gives us some flex; lets move on ;)

14:20:30 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: lets move forward

Kevin Novak: lets move forward

14:21:11 <josema> ACTION: kevin to collect comments

ACTION: kevin to collect comments

14:21:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-64 - Collect comments [on Kevin Novak - due 2009-06-03].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-64 - Collect comments [on Kevin Novak - due 2009-06-03].

14:21:27 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin asks how to go forward

Kevin asks how to go forward

14:21:41 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: how to proceed?

Kevin Novak: how to proceed?

14:22:00 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: will be talking to press, so would like some feedback

Kevin Novak: will be talking to press, so would like some feedback

14:22:59 <josema> site to comment = http://opengov.ideascale.com/ ?

José Alonso: site to comment = http://opengov.ideascale.com/ ?

14:23:00 <john> too clever by half, I fear

John Sheridan: too clever by half, I fear

14:24:19 <john> issues paper covers heaps

John Sheridan: issues paper covers heaps

14:24:42 <john> so, maybe we just point to stuff thats there?

John Sheridan: so, maybe we just point to stuff thats there?

14:24:50 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: the group note can stand for our consensus

Kevin Novak: the group note can stand for our consensus

14:25:00 <Daniel_Bennett> 5 minutes left

5 minutes left

14:25:06 <aharvey> I'll be able to add comments on this stuff later today.

Adam Harvey: I'll be able to add comments on this stuff later today.

14:25:18 <Daniel_Bennett> and still 2 agenda items

and still 2 agenda items

14:26:26 <josema> re-reads: "...This online brainstorming session, open from May 21st to 28th, 2009..."

Scribe problem: the name 're-reads' does not match any of the 56 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Adam Harvey Aldo Gangemi Amit Parashar Anne Washington Ari Schwartz Bede McCall Brand Niemann Christopher Testa Dalila Chiadmi Daniel Bennett Dave McAllister David Osimo Faisal Monai George Thomas Hugh Barnes Ilker Karakas Jacob Mumm Jeremiah Albrant Joe Carmel John Sheridan John Wonderlich Jonathan Gray José Alonso Juan Rodríguez Rodríguez Katie Haritos-Shea Ken Fischer Kendall Clark Kevin Novak Laila Benhlima Lanfranco Marasso Luigi Selmi Malcolm Crompton Maria Fernandez Ruiz Miguel Amutio Mohamed ZERGAOUI Oscar Azanon Esteire Owen Ambur Pasquale Popolizio Pietro Russo Rachel Flagg Richard Murphy Rinke Hoekstra Roberto Castaldo Robin Berjon Rowan Smith Sharron Rush Suzanne Acar Tanya Gupta Tim McMahon Tom van Engers Trond Undheim Vagner Diniz Vassilios Peristeras Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown re-reads: "...This online brainstorming session, open from May 21st to 28th, 2009..." [ Scribe Assist by José Alonso ]

14:26:36 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: wonders about date for comments

Kevin Novak: wonders about date for comments

14:26:51 <Daniel_Bennett> Rachel: thought it would be longer

Rachel Flagg: thought it would be longer

14:26:53 <josema> apparently page not aligned to what was said on the call (June 2)

José Alonso: apparently page not aligned to what was said on the call (June 2)

14:26:59 <Daniel_Bennett> 3 minutes left

3 minutes left

14:27:07 <Daniel_Bennett> still 2 agenda items

still 2 agenda items

14:27:12 <josema> agenda?

José Alonso: agenda?

14:28:00 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose: not enough time to discuss charter, but lets discuss plan

José Alonso: not enough time to discuss charter, but lets discuss plan

14:28:01 <john> great - go ahead

John Sheridan: great - go ahead

14:29:18 <aharvey> I will be unable to make the June 10 call

Adam Harvey: I will be unable to make the June 10 call

14:29:43 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose: we have deadlines

José Alonso: we have deadlines

14:30:07 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose: we have until mid-June for draft for charter

José Alonso: we have until mid-June for draft for charter

14:30:39 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose: June 24 as a deadline to coincide with group call

José Alonso: June 24 as a deadline to coincide with group call

14:30:53 <josema> zakim, drop agendum 3

José Alonso: zakim, drop agendum 3

14:30:53 <Zakim> agendum 3, Charter, dropped

Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 3, Charter, dropped

14:31:00 <josema> zakim, take up agendum 4

José Alonso: zakim, take up agendum 4

14:31:00 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Charter plan" taken up [from josema]

4. Charter plan

14:31:29 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: I agree. and read through comments. I think that the action item is for chairs to compile into one pager

Kevin Novak: I agree. and read through comments. I think that the action item is for chairs to compile into one pager

14:31:36 <Daniel_Bennett> +1

+1

14:31:39 <josema> current charter: http://www.w3.org/2008/02/eGov/ig-charter

José Alonso: current charter: http://www.w3.org/2008/02/eGov/ig-charter

14:32:00 <Daniel_Bennett> Owen, I got an email confirm back instantly from opengov.

Owen, I got an email confirm back instantly from opengov.

14:32:02 <john> sounds good

John Sheridan: sounds good

14:32:10 <josema> ACTION: kevin to draft a 1-2 initial pager re: charter, john and jose to help

ACTION: kevin to draft a 1-2 initial pager re: charter, john and jose to help

14:32:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-65 - Draft a 1-2 initial pager re: charter, john and jose to help [on Kevin Novak - due 2009-06-03].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-65 - Draft a 1-2 initial pager re: charter, john and jose to help [on Kevin Novak - due 2009-06-03].

14:32:32 <josema> agenda?

José Alonso: agenda?

14:32:40 <john> think we're done

John Sheridan: think we're done

14:32:44 <Daniel_Bennett> Daniel: times up

Daniel Bennett: times up

14:32:50 <Daniel_Bennett> Jose: agrees

José Alonso: agrees

14:33:13 <josema> topic: Gov 2.0 Summit

5. Gov 2.0 Summit

14:33:17 <aharvey> I'm trying to get an invite to that summit

Adam Harvey: I'm trying to get an invite to that summit

14:33:40 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: we have an opportunity for Gov 2.0 summit. we can put together case study.

Kevin Novak: we have an opportunity for Gov 2.0 summit. we can put together case study.

14:33:56 <josema> [opportunitiy to have some IG people in there]

José Alonso: [opportunitiy to have some IG people in there]

14:34:27 <Daniel_Bennett> "Daniel and Joe, you can put together Rosetta Stone [and Repository Schema] for 20 min presentation.

"Daniel and Joe, you can put together Rosetta Stone [and Repository Schema] for 20 min presentation.

14:34:40 <Daniel_Bennett> "Daniel and Joe, you can put together Rosetta Stone [and Repository Schema] for 20 min presentation."

...Daniel and Joe, you can put together Rosetta Stone [and Repository Schema] for 20 min presentation....

14:35:12 <josema> s/"/...
14:35:21 <josema> [kevin offers invites :)]

José Alonso: [kevin offers invites :)]

14:35:31 <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin: i'm done

Kevin Novak: i'm done

14:35:34 <Daniel_Bennett> adjourns

adjourns

14:35:36 <Daniel_Bennett> ?

?

14:35:40 <josema> [ADJOURNED]

José Alonso: [ADJOURNED]

14:35:43 <Zakim> -Sharron

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sharron

14:35:47 <Zakim> -Kevin

Zakim IRC Bot: -Kevin

14:35:49 <Zakim> -Ken

Scribe problem: the name 'Ken' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Kendall Clark Ken Fischer . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ken

14:35:49 <john> thanks everyone :)

John Sheridan: thanks everyone :)

14:35:51 <Zakim> -Rachel

Zakim IRC Bot: -Rachel

14:35:52 <Zakim> -aharvey

Zakim IRC Bot: -aharvey

14:35:54 <Zakim> -Daniel_Bennett

Zakim IRC Bot: -Daniel_Bennett

14:35:56 <Zakim> -owen

Zakim IRC Bot: -owen

14:35:58 <Zakim> -john

Zakim IRC Bot: -john

14:36:00 <aharvey> This was very informative. Thanks!

Adam Harvey: This was very informative. Thanks!

14:36:06 <joec> good session

Joe Carmel: good session

14:36:57 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes

José Alonso: rrsagent, draft minutes

14:36:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-egov-minutes.html josema

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-egov-minutes.html josema

14:38:39 <Zakim> -joec

Zakim IRC Bot: -joec

14:50:35 <Zakim> -Josema

(No events recorded for 11 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: -Josema

14:50:55 <josema> zakim, bye

José Alonso: zakim, bye

14:50:55 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were +1.216.443.aaaa, aharvey, +0073411aabb, Sharron, hughb, +1.202.319.aacc, +1.410.992.aadd, Josema, +1.202.564.aaee, Kevin, Rachel,

Zakim IRC Bot: leaving. As of this point the attendees were +1.216.443.aaaa, aharvey, +0073411aabb, Sharron, hughb, +1.202.319.aacc, +1.410.992.aadd, Josema, +1.202.564.aaee, Kevin, Rachel,

14:50:58 <Zakim> ... owen, Ken, john, joec, Daniel_Bennett, annew, +1.202.219.aaff, rick

Zakim IRC Bot: ... owen, Ken, john, joec, Daniel_Bennett, annew, +1.202.219.aaff, rick

14:50:59 <josema> rrsagent, bye

José Alonso: rrsagent, bye

14:50:59 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-egov-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-egov-actions.rdf :

14:50:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: kevin to collect comments [1]

ACTION: kevin to collect comments [1]

14:50:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-egov-irc#T14-21-11

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-egov-irc#T14-21-11

14:50:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: kevin to draft a 1-2 initial pager re: charter, john and jose to help [2]

ACTION: kevin to draft a 1-2 initial pager re: charter, john and jose to help [2]

14:50:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-egov-irc#T14-32-10

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-egov-irc#T14-32-10



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