edit

eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference

Minutes of 15 October 2008

Seen
Anne Washington, Ari Schwartz, Benjamin Nguyen, Jeffrey Sonstein, John Sheridan, José Alonso, Kevin Novak, Kjetil Kjernsmo, Martin Mollema, Oscar Azanon Esteire, Owen Ambur, Pasquale Popolizio, Rachel Flagg, Roberto Castaldo, Trond Undheim, Unknown washingtona, Vagner Diniz, Vassilios Peristeras
Regrets
Benjamin Nguyen, Roberto Castaldo, Jeffrey Sonstein, Pasquale Popolizio, Vassilios Peristeras, Ari Schwartz, Unknown (likely)
Scribe
José Alonso
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics

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12:59:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-egov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-egov-irc

12:59:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public

12:59:30 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be EGOV

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be EGOV

12:59:30 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot, I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM already started

12:59:31 <trackbot> Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
12:59:31 <trackbot> Date: 15 October 2008
12:59:40 <josema> chairs: john, kevin

Scribe problem: the name 'chairs' does not match any of the 39 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Amit Parashar Anne Washington Ari Schwartz Benjamin Nguyen Christopher Testa Dalila Chiadmi Ilker Karakas Jeffrey Sonstein John Sheridan John Wonderlich José Alonso Juan Rodríguez Rodríguez Katie Haritos-Shea Kevin Novak Kjetil Kjernsmo Laila Benhlima Malcolm Crompton Martin Mollema Mercedes Clark-Smith Oscar Azanon Esteire Owen Ambur Pasquale Popolizio Peter Krantz Pietro Russo Rachel Flagg Richard Murphy Rinke Hoekstra Roberto Castaldo Robin Berjon Rowan Smith Tanya Gupta Tim McMahon Tom van Engers Trond Undheim Vagner Diniz Vassilios Peristeras Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown chairs: john, kevin [ Scribe Assist by José Alonso ]

12:59:48 <Owen> I have another telecon in a half hour so I won't be able to stay long.

Owen Ambur: I have another telecon in a half hour so I won't be able to stay long.

13:00:10 <john> is anyone on the telephone?

John Sheridan: is anyone on the telephone?

13:00:33 <josema> regrets: Benjamin, Roberto, Jeff, Pasquale, Vassilios, Ari, Kjetil (likely)

Scribe problem: the name 'Kjetil (likely)' does not match any of the 36 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Amit Parashar Anne Washington Ari Schwartz Benjamin Nguyen Christopher Testa Dalila Chiadmi Ilker Karakas Jeffrey Sonstein John Sheridan John Wonderlich José Alonso Juan Rodríguez Rodríguez Katie Haritos-Shea Kevin Novak Kjetil Kjernsmo Laila Benhlima Malcolm Crompton Martin Mollema Mercedes Clark-Smith Oscar Azanon Esteire Owen Ambur Pasquale Popolizio Peter Krantz Pietro Russo Rachel Flagg Richard Murphy Rinke Hoekstra Roberto Castaldo Robin Berjon Rowan Smith Tanya Gupta Tim McMahon Tom van Engers Trond Undheim Vagner Diniz Vassilios Peristeras

13:00:47 <josema> john, you can query zakim yourself

José Alonso: john, you can query zakim yourself

13:00:58 <josema> zakim, who's on the phone?

José Alonso: zakim, who's on the phone?

13:00:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see john

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see john

13:01:02 <josema> ha!

José Alonso: ha!

13:01:11 <Zakim> +Josema

Zakim IRC Bot: +Josema

13:01:38 <Zakim> + +31.61.830.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +31.61.830.aaaa

13:01:45 <Zakim> + +1.301.455.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.301.455.aabb

13:01:52 <josema> zakim, drop aaaa

José Alonso: zakim, drop aaaa

13:01:52 <Zakim> +31.61.830.aaaa is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: +31.61.830.aaaa is being disconnected

13:01:53 <Zakim> - +31.61.830.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +31.61.830.aaaa

13:02:32 <josema> can anybody hear me on the phone?

José Alonso: can anybody hear me on the phone?

13:02:37 <john> no

John Sheridan: no

13:02:41 <josema> :(

José Alonso: :(

13:03:08 <josema> zakim, unmute me

José Alonso: zakim, unmute me

13:03:08 <Zakim> Josema was not muted, josema

Zakim IRC Bot: Josema was not muted, josema

13:03:14 <john> I heard something

John Sheridan: I heard something

13:03:21 <Zakim> + +31.61.830.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +31.61.830.aacc

13:03:46 <josema> zakim, drop me

José Alonso: zakim, drop me

13:03:53 <josema> zakim, call josema-office

José Alonso: zakim, call josema-office

13:03:55 <Zakim> Josema is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Josema is being disconnected

13:03:59 <Zakim> -Josema

Zakim IRC Bot: -Josema

13:04:07 <Zakim> ok, josema; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, josema; the call is being made

13:04:13 <Zakim> +Josema

Zakim IRC Bot: +Josema

13:04:49 <Zakim> + +1.509.464.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.464.aadd

13:06:12 <josema> zakim, aacc is martin

José Alonso: zakim, aacc is martin

13:06:12 <Zakim> +martin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +martin; got it

13:06:23 <josema> zakim, who's here?

José Alonso: zakim, who's here?

13:06:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see john, Josema, +1.301.455.aabb, martin, +1.509.464.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see john, Josema, +1.301.455.aabb, martin, +1.509.464.aadd

13:06:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot

13:07:03 <josema> zakim, drop aabb

José Alonso: zakim, drop aabb

13:07:03 <Zakim> +1.301.455.aabb is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: +1.301.455.aabb is being disconnected

13:07:04 <Zakim> - +1.301.455.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.301.455.aabb

13:07:14 <josema> zakim, drop aadd

José Alonso: zakim, drop aadd

13:07:14 <Zakim> +1.509.464.aadd is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: +1.509.464.aadd is being disconnected

13:07:16 <Zakim> - +1.509.464.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.509.464.aadd

13:07:20 <Zakim> + +1.202.731.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.731.aaee

13:07:57 <josema> zakim, aaee is kevin

José Alonso: zakim, aaee is kevin

13:07:57 <Zakim> +kevin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +kevin; got it

13:08:06 <josema> zakim, who's here?

José Alonso: zakim, who's here?

13:08:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see john, Josema, martin, kevin

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see john, Josema, martin, kevin

13:08:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot

13:08:48 <Zakim> + +1.509.464.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.464.aaff

13:09:06 <josema> zakim, aaff is rachel

José Alonso: zakim, aaff is rachel

13:09:06 <Zakim> +rachel; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +rachel; got it

13:09:11 <Zakim> + +1.301.455.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.301.455.aagg

13:09:32 <josema> zakim, aagg is owen

José Alonso: zakim, aagg is owen

13:09:32 <Zakim> +owen; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +owen; got it

13:09:42 <josema> zakim, who's here?

José Alonso: zakim, who's here?

13:09:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see john, Josema, martin, kevin, rachel, owen

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see john, Josema, martin, kevin, rachel, owen

13:09:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot

13:09:56 <josema> agenda?

José Alonso: agenda?

13:10:29 <josema> move to next agendum

José Alonso: move to next agendum

13:10:29 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene, agenda adjustments" taken up [from josema]

1. Convene, agenda adjustments

13:10:36 <Zakim> +??P29

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P29

13:10:57 <josema> zakim, P29 is trond

José Alonso: zakim, P29 is trond

13:10:57 <Zakim> sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'P29'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'P29'

13:11:05 <josema> zakim, ??P29 is trond

José Alonso: zakim, ??P29 is trond

13:11:05 <Zakim> +trond; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +trond; got it

13:11:48 <josema> [scribe list: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Scribe_List]

José Alonso: [scribe list: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Scribe_List]

13:12:54 <josema> scribe: josema

(Scribe set to José Alonso)

13:13:17 <josema> john: any agenda adjustments?

John Sheridan: any agenda adjustments?

13:13:21 <josema> [none heard]

[none heard]

13:13:29 <josema> move to next agendum

move to next agendum

13:13:29 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Introductions - new people onboard? (+ appoint a scribe)" taken up [from josema]

2. Introductions - new people onboard? (+ appoint a scribe)

13:13:44 <josema> zakim, who's here?

zakim, who's here?

13:13:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see john, Josema, martin, kevin, rachel, owen, trond

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see john, Josema, martin, kevin, rachel, owen, trond

13:13:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot

13:14:59 <josema> martin: dutch government foundation leading with IT implementations

Martin Mollema: dutch government foundation leading with IT implementations

13:15:12 <josema> ... OSS, also participate in IDABC stuff

... OSS, also participate in IDABC stuff

13:15:23 <josema> [all the rest are known :)]

[all the rest are known :)]

13:15:54 <josema> agenda?

agenda?

13:16:02 <josema> move to next agendum

move to next agendum

13:16:06 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Basic IRC recap and a quick play" taken up [from josema]

3. Basic IRC recap and a quick play

13:16:29 <Zakim> + +55115509aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: + +55115509aahh

13:17:33 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Teleconferences#How-to_join__-_IRC

http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Teleconferences#How-to_join__-_IRC

13:18:18 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot

http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot

13:18:51 <john> q?

John Sheridan: q?

13:19:22 <Zakim> +OCR

Zakim IRC Bot: +OCR

13:19:24 <Vagner> Vagner, from Brazil, joined

Vagner Diniz: Vagner, from Brazil, joined

13:19:36 <josema> zakim, aahh is Vagner

zakim, aahh is Vagner

13:19:36 <Zakim> +Vagner; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Vagner; got it

13:19:44 <josema> zakim, OCR is oscar

zakim, OCR is oscar

13:19:44 <Zakim> +oscar; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +oscar; got it

13:20:09 <josema> q?

q?

13:20:21 <josema> q+ I have this question

q+ I have this question

13:20:26 <josema> q+ to I have this question

q+ to I have this question

13:20:29 <josema> q?

q?

13:20:43 <josema> ack josema

ack josema

13:20:43 <Zakim> josema, you wanted to I have this question

Zakim IRC Bot: josema, you wanted to I have this question

13:21:13 <josema> move to next agendum

move to next agendum

13:21:14 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Review of action items" taken up [from josema]

4. Review of action items

13:21:32 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/actions/open

http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/actions/open

13:22:40 <Zakim> -martin

Zakim IRC Bot: -martin

13:22:53 <josema> close ACTION-10

close ACTION-10

13:22:53 <trackbot> ACTION-10 Discuss themes by email by Monday closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-10 Discuss themes by email by Monday closed

13:22:57 <josema> close ACTION-11

close ACTION-11

13:22:57 <trackbot> ACTION-11 Discuss themes by email by Monday closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-11 Discuss themes by email by Monday closed

13:23:09 <josema> [done and in the agenda and list]

[done and in the agenda and list]

13:23:14 <josema> move to next agendum

move to next agendum

13:23:14 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Preparing for the face to face" taken up [from josema]

5. Preparing for the face to face

13:23:15 <Zakim> +martin

Zakim IRC Bot: +martin

13:24:13 <john> q?

John Sheridan: q?

13:24:18 <josema> [john explains the themes sent to the list and how to prepare F2F]

[john explains the themes sent to the list and how to prepare F2F]

13:25:08 <josema> john: chairs discussed about structure of use cases and number

John Sheridan: chairs discussed about structure of use cases and number

13:25:22 <josema> ...only one so far; we would like to come up with more

...only one so far; we would like to come up with more

13:25:48 <josema> ...people to submit one case before the F2F and have the F2F agenda

...people to submit one case before the F2F and have the F2F agenda

13:25:53 <josema> ...built around those

...built around those

13:25:56 <josema> ... thoughts?

...thoughts?

13:26:03 <josema> s/... /...
13:26:38 <josema> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Use_Cases Use Cases

-> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Use_Cases Use Cases

13:26:44 <josema> john: volunteers?

John Sheridan: volunteers?

13:26:52 <josema> [none heard]

[none heard]

13:27:40 <josema> john: in the post I made on Monday I proposed 10 possible cases

John Sheridan: in the post I made on Monday I proposed 10 possible cases

13:27:46 <Zakim> +[LC]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[LC]

13:27:48 <josema> ...and areas we would need to explore

...and areas we would need to explore

13:27:56 <josema> ...perhaps we need more

...perhaps we need more

13:28:06 <josema> zakim, LC is Anne

zakim, LC is Anne

13:28:06 <Zakim> +Anne; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Anne; got it

13:29:13 <josema> john: I would expect us to come up with some outlined use cases

John Sheridan: I would expect us to come up with some outlined use cases

13:29:36 <josema> john: changing slightly the topic

John Sheridan: changing slightly the topic

13:29:52 <josema> ...why none heard so far?

...why none heard so far?

13:30:03 <josema> ...is that because they are not useful?

...is that because they would not useful?

13:30:15 <josema> s/are not/would not
13:30:34 <josema> owen: number of regrets may be because of use cases not that important

Owen Ambur: number of regrets may be because of use cases not that important

13:30:37 <josema> ...people busy

...people busy

13:30:48 <josema> anne: use cases could be very helpful to focus ideas

Anne Washington: use cases could be very helpful to focus ideas

13:31:13 <josema> ...this is a problem database, but not sure it's obvious

...this is a problem database, but not sure it's obvious

13:31:23 <josema> ...for everybody to volunteer and participate

...for everybody to volunteer and participate

13:31:53 <josema> john: eg. show us a better way competition in the UK

John Sheridan: eg. show us a better way competition in the UK

13:32:09 <josema> ...I already got about 100 use cases from that

...I already got about 100 use cases from that

13:32:14 <josema> ...amazing work

...amazing work

13:32:57 <josema> ->http://www.showusabetterway.co.uk/ Show Us a Better Way competition

->http://www.showusabetterway.co.uk/ Show Us a Better Way competition

13:33:08 <josema> [scribe lost a bit here]

[scribe lost a bit here]

13:33:45 <Owen> I didn't mean to suggest that use cases may not be helpful but, merely, that the fact others have not provided any yet is a reflection of the fact they are busy.  They should contribute whatever they can.

Owen Ambur: I didn't mean to suggest that use cases may not be helpful but, merely, that the fact others have not provided any yet is a reflection of the fact they are busy. They should contribute whatever they can.

13:34:08 <josema> kevin: we should try to concentrate on a small set of cases to show the main areas

Kevin Novak: we should try to concentrate on a small set of cases to show the main areas

13:34:20 <josema> ...and we want to achieve

...and we want to achieve

13:34:59 <josema> anne: I think the structure of groups works for me

Anne Washington: I think the structure of groups works for me

13:35:57 <josema> john: do you think there are some US gov cases that could fit there??

John Sheridan: do you think there are some US gov cases that could fit there??

13:36:26 <josema> anne:??

Anne Washington: ??

13:37:00 <josema> [john talks about pattern behind the competition...]

[john talks about pattern behind the competition...]

13:37:54 <Zakim> -Josema

Zakim IRC Bot: -Josema

13:38:01 <Zakim> +Josema

Zakim IRC Bot: +Josema

13:38:48 <josema> [scribe lost phone connection, hence a couple minutes]

[scribe lost phone connection, hence a couple minutes]

13:39:31 <josema> john: I see people asking for help to each others in forums about taxation

John Sheridan: I see people asking for help to each others in forums about taxation

13:39:48 <josema> ...if we could engage the government there to help them, it'd be interesting case to explore

...if we could engage the government there to help them, it'd be interesting case to explore

13:40:01 <josema> anne: maybe we just need good stories about why that's happening

Anne Washington: maybe we just need good stories about why that's happening

13:40:06 <Owen> The U.S. federal Web Content Managers strategic plan is available at http://xml.gov/stratml/WCMstratplan.xml I suppose it could be considered to be a set of use cases for the eGov IG.

Owen Ambur: The U.S. federal Web Content Managers strategic plan is available at http://xml.gov/stratml/WCMstratplan.xml I suppose it could be considered to be a set of use cases for the eGov IG.

13:40:17 <josema> kevin: we talked previously about persona-like approach

Kevin Novak: we talked previously about persona-like approach

13:40:20 <josema> anne: makes sense

Anne Washington: makes sense

13:40:56 <josema> rachel: do we want stories and successes and also some that recognize we have some work to do?

Rachel Flagg: do we want stories and successes and also some that recognize we have some work to do?

13:41:22 <josema> kevin: both, gap analysis is also useful to identify what's missing

Kevin Novak: both, gap analysis is also useful to identify what's missing

13:41:48 <josema> rachel: speaking as US executive branch, I think UK is ahead of us

Rachel Flagg: speaking of US executive branch, I think UK is ahead of us

13:42:09 <josema> ...we have good information but not good transformational, it's too fragmented

...we have good information but not good transformational, it's too fragmented

13:42:21 <josema> ...this is a big challenge

...this is a big challenge

13:42:34 <josema> s/speaking as/speaking of
13:42:41 <josema> regrets+ rinke

regrets+ rinke

13:42:49 <josema> agenda?

agenda?

13:43:54 <josema> john: I understand some of the good stories will show some issues

John Sheridan: I understand some of the good stories will show some issues

13:44:19 <josema> move to next agendum

move to next agendum

13:44:19 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Use Case framework" taken up [from josema]

6. Use Case framework

13:44:24 <josema> zakim, who is noisy?

zakim, who is noisy?

13:44:35 <Zakim> josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: martin (21%), Josema (9%)

Zakim IRC Bot: josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: martin (21%), Josema (9%)

13:45:50 <josema> [johns asks for input about F2F, and what we should bring from there]

[john asks for input about F2F, and what we should bring from there]

13:45:53 <martinmollema> I'll try

Martin Mollema: I'll try

13:45:59 <josema> s/johns/john
13:47:44 <josema> move to next agendum

move to next agendum

13:47:44 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Candidate Use Cases" taken up [from josema]

7. Candidate Use Cases

13:48:25 <josema> zakim, who is noisy?

zakim, who is noisy?

13:48:35 <Zakim> josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: john (49%), martin (34%)

Zakim IRC Bot: josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: john (49%), martin (34%)

13:50:10 <martinmollema> ok, I couldn't mute my mobile doesn't allow

Martin Mollema: ok, I couldn't mute my mobile doesn't allow

13:50:15 <josema> [john reviews web basics and ideas sent to the list around use cases and framework]

[john reviews web basics and ideas sent to the list around use cases and framework]

13:50:53 <kjetil> Zakim, what is the code?

Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, what is the code?

13:50:53 <Zakim> the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), kjetil

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), kjetil

13:51:01 <josema> john: how much effort we should put into the framework and how much on "web basics"

John Sheridan: how much effort we should put into the framework and how much on "web basics"

13:51:11 <josema> ...keeping in mind money is very short

...keeping in mind money is very short

13:51:14 <Zakim> + +2

Zakim IRC Bot: + +2

13:51:19 <kjetil> +2 is me

Kjetil Kjernsmo: +2 is me

13:51:28 <john> q?

John Sheridan: q?

13:51:30 <kjetil> Zakim, +2 is me

Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, +2 is me

13:51:30 <Zakim> +kjetil; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +kjetil; got it

13:52:02 <josema> zakim, who's noisy?

zakim, who's noisy?

13:52:12 <Zakim> josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 11 (31%), john (91%), kjetil (25%)

Zakim IRC Bot: josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 11 (31%), john (91%), kjetil (25%)

13:52:33 <josema> zakim, mute kjetil

zakim, mute kjetil

13:52:33 <Zakim> kjetil should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: kjetil should now be muted

13:52:46 <josema> zakim, who's 11?

zakim, who's 11?

13:52:46 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, josema.

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, josema.

13:54:11 <josema> anne: first call for me

Anne Washington: first call for me

13:54:17 <josema> vagner: same

Vagner Diniz: same

13:54:40 <martinmollema> As this is my first call and as I am muted Iam just absorbing

Martin Mollema: As this is my first call and as I am muted Iam just absorbing

13:55:31 <josema> [some talk about current situation and how it will affect eGov projects]

[some talk about current situation and how it will affect eGov projects]

13:56:11 <josema> owen: is money an issue for us, for this Group?

Owen Ambur: is money an issue for us, for this Group?

13:56:46 <josema> anne: we don't financial resources perse

Anne Washington: we don't financial resources "per se"

13:56:59 <josema> ...just talking and working and sharing

...just talking and working and sharing

13:57:08 <josema> s/perse/"per se"
13:57:33 <josema> john: in terms of sharing it costs nothing

John Sheridan: in terms of sharing it costs nothing

13:57:43 <josema> ...and magical knowledge transfers happen

...and magical knowledge transfers happen

13:58:06 <kjetil> q+

Kjetil Kjernsmo: q+

13:58:08 <josema> ...great in hard times that we'll experience in 2-3 years

...great in hard times that we'll experience in 2-3 years

13:58:38 <josema> ...where we need learning to save

...where we need learning to save

13:59:03 <josema> ...my personal view is being able to do lots with little money is a great story

...my personal view is being able to do lots with little money is a great story

13:59:22 <josema> q?

q?

13:59:33 <kjetil> ack me

Kjetil Kjernsmo: ack me

13:59:34 <josema> ack k

ack k

14:00:15 <john> q?

John Sheridan: q?

14:00:16 <josema> kjetil: in Norway is affecting public sector at large ???

Kjetil Kjernsmo: in Norway is affecting public sector at large ???

14:01:26 <josema> zakim, mute kj

zakim, mute kj

14:01:26 <Zakim> kjetil should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: kjetil should now be muted

14:02:24 <josema> john: I'm wondering if "can we do more with very little?"

John Sheridan: I'm wondering if "can we do more with very little?"

14:02:25 <kjetil> in Norway, we expect to do more work for eGov since the state has sufficient money, it has been holding back to not overheat the economy

Kjetil Kjernsmo: in Norway, we expect to do more work for eGov since the state has sufficient money, it has been holding back to not overheat the economy

14:02:39 <josema> ...is something we should use as theme?

...is something we should use as theme?

14:03:18 <josema> anne: I think that "share what we can" is a very important argument

Anne Washington: I think that "share what we can" is a very important argument

14:03:22 <kjetil> now that the prices for our services are goind down somewhat, the government may well take advantage of the situation to increase public spending

Kjetil Kjernsmo: now that the prices for our services are goind down somewhat, the government may well take advantage of the situation to increase public spending

14:03:23 <josema> rachel: +1

Rachel Flagg: +1

14:04:14 <josema> john: I encourage group members to document a success or a challenge and share it with the Group

John Sheridan: I encourage group members to document a success or a challenge and share it with the Group

14:05:17 <josema> agenda?

agenda?

14:05:51 <josema> john: value for money, web basics and stories/use cases could be the main three things to work n

John Sheridan: value for money, web basics and stories/use cases could be the main three things to work n

14:05:54 <josema> ...comments?

...comments?

14:06:41 <josema> [none heard]

[none heard]

14:08:16 <josema> rachel: I would probably add something about "plain language", helping people to find what they need

Rachel Flagg: I would probably add something about "plain language", helping people to find what they need

14:08:25 <josema> ...and not use much government technical terms

...and not use much government technical terms

14:09:04 <josema> ...we have writing standards, peer review, maybe sth like this could be added

...we have writing standards, peer review, maybe sth like this could be added

14:09:09 <josema> john: good example

John Sheridan: good example

14:09:30 <josema> ...resource discovery is a tricky issue

...resource discovery is a tricky issue

14:09:45 <josema> ...difference in government and citizen terms to search for something

...difference in government and citizen terms to search for something

14:10:10 <josema> I could provide an example on that

I could provide an example on that

14:10:21 <josema> I = jose = scribe

I = jose = scribe

14:11:08 <Zakim> -kevin

Zakim IRC Bot: -kevin

14:12:23 <josema> [jose talks about SW to match those]

[jose talks about SW to match those]

14:13:20 <josema> in fact, it was already published: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/CTIC/

in fact, it was already published: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/CTIC/

14:13:55 <kjetil> q+

Kjetil Kjernsmo: q+

14:14:28 <john> ack next

John Sheridan: ack next

14:16:38 <kjetil> Zakim: mute me
14:16:45 <josema> zakim, mute kj

zakim, mute kj

14:16:45 <Zakim> kjetil should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: kjetil should now be muted

14:17:32 <josema> john: recap: use cases around languages, semantics to mediate between man in the street and government...

John Sheridan: recap: use cases around languages, semantics to mediate between man in the street and government...

14:17:42 <josema> ...anything else?

...anything else?

14:17:44 <kjetil> An acquitance of the Computas Semweb group wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state

Kjetil Kjernsmo: An acquitance of the Computas Semweb group wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state

14:18:03 <kjetil> so that they can more easily find what rights they actually have, but that is hard to find

Kjetil Kjernsmo: so that they can more easily find what rights they actually have, but that is hard to find

14:18:31 <josema> rachel: thanks john for laying out the "straw man" discussion

Rachel Flagg: thanks john for laying out the "straw man" discussion

14:18:32 <kjetil> I took an action to send an email to the people who wrote this and ask them to submit it to us

Kjetil Kjernsmo: I took an action to send an email to the people who wrote this and ask them to submit it to us

14:20:09 <martinmollema> There is a research going on in the netherlands, on the search engine for citizens to browse through all different government organisations, aiming to provide the correct information.

Martin Mollema: There is a research going on in the netherlands, on the search engine for citizens to browse through all different government organisations, aiming to provide the correct information.

14:20:33 <josema> ack martin

ack martin

14:20:38 <martinmollema> i am muted

Martin Mollema: i am muted

14:20:46 <josema> ack martin

ack martin

14:21:09 <josema> ACTION kjetil to send an email to the people who wrote wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state

ACTION kjetil to send an email to the people who wrote wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state

14:21:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-13 - Send an email to the people who wrote wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state [on Kjetil Kjernsmo - due 2008-10-22].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-13 - Send an email to the people who wrote wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state [on Kjetil Kjernsmo - due 2008-10-22].

14:21:51 <josema> martin: project in NL that extends up to 600 organizations

Martin Mollema: project in NL that extends up to 600 organizations

14:22:11 <josema> ...adding semantics so when a person needs to contact a given org

...adding semantics so when a person needs to contact a given org

14:22:30 <josema> ..he/she should not worry about who is in charge, but the system will help

..he/she should not worry about who is in charge, but the system will help

14:22:43 <josema> zakim, mute martin

zakim, mute martin

14:22:43 <Zakim> martin should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: martin should now be muted

14:23:19 <martinmollema> ok thanx

Martin Mollema: ok thanx

14:23:22 <josema> ...the citizen to contact the right one within the gov

...the citizen to contact the right one within the gov

14:23:30 <josema> ...will ask people in charge

...will ask people in charge

14:23:38 <josema> john: this was a useful conversation

John Sheridan: this was a useful conversation

14:23:41 <josema> agenda?

agenda?

14:24:29 <josema> john: any burning issues left out?

John Sheridan: any burning issues left out?

14:24:34 <Owen> I need to sign off.

Owen Ambur: I need to sign off.

14:24:39 <Zakim> -owen

Zakim IRC Bot: -owen

14:25:01 <josema> ...eg: accessibility, should we have a story just about it or spread over others?

...eg: accessibility, should we have a story just about it or spread over others?

14:25:35 <josema> anne: in some cases, we might want to build on others work

Anne Washington: in some cases, we might want to build on others work

14:25:54 <josema> john: value we can add is contextualizing

John Sheridan: value we can add is contextualizing

14:25:56 <josema> anne: +1

Anne Washington: +1

14:26:32 <josema> zakim, list attendants

zakim, list attendants

14:26:32 <Zakim> I don't understand 'list attendants', josema

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'list attendants', josema

14:27:04 <josema> zakim, list attendees

zakim, list attendees

14:27:05 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been john, Josema, +31.61.830.aaaa, +1.301.455.aabb, +31.61.830.aacc, +1.509.464.aadd, martin, +1.202.731.aaee, kevin, +1.509.464.aaff, rachel,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been john, Josema, +31.61.830.aaaa, +1.301.455.aabb, +31.61.830.aacc, +1.509.464.aadd, martin, +1.202.731.aaee, kevin, +1.509.464.aaff, rachel,

14:27:12 <Zakim> ... +1.301.455.aagg, owen, trond, +55115509aahh, Vagner, oscar, Anne, kjetil

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.301.455.aagg, owen, trond, +55115509aahh, Vagner, oscar, Anne, kjetil

14:27:34 <josema> zakim, washingtona is anne

zakim, washingtona is anne

14:27:34 <Zakim> sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'washingtona'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'washingtona'

14:27:47 <josema> zakim, anne is washingtona

zakim, anne is washingtona

14:27:47 <Zakim> +washingtona; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +washingtona; got it

14:27:49 <john> q?

John Sheridan: q?

14:28:30 <josema> john: trust/provenance also an important topic

John Sheridan: trust/provenance also an important topic

14:28:46 <josema> rachel: trust issue is a very big one for us

Rachel Flagg: trust issue is a very big one for us

14:29:17 <john> q?

John Sheridan: q?

14:29:45 <josema> ...make us nervous about what it will done with the info

...make us nervous about what it will done with the info

14:30:09 <josema> john: I understand... and context is important...

John Sheridan: I understand... and context is important...

14:32:02 <josema> ...is misuse a big concern of yours?

...is misuse a big concern of yours?

14:32:57 <josema> rachel: case of purported government info worries me

Rachel Flagg: case of purported government info worries me

14:33:07 <kjetil> Zakim: q+
14:33:16 <kjetil> q+

Kjetil Kjernsmo: q+

14:33:20 <john> ack next

John Sheridan: ack next

14:33:56 <Zakim> -trond

Zakim IRC Bot: -trond

14:34:40 <josema> kjetil: digital signatures, powerful stuff to avoid these issues

Kjetil Kjernsmo: digital signatures, powerful stuff to avoid these issues

14:34:51 <john> sorry - holding phone, typing, thinking - its a whole new multitasking experience!

John Sheridan: sorry - holding phone, typing, thinking - its a whole new multitasking experience!

14:35:55 <john> I know :)

John Sheridan: I know :)

14:37:19 <john> ?q

John Sheridan: ?q

14:37:20 <kjetil> Zakim, mute me

Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, mute me

14:37:20 <Zakim> kjetil should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: kjetil should now be muted

14:37:37 <josema> john: recap at the F2F, maybe come up with another couple cases in the morning

John Sheridan: recap at the F2F, maybe come up with another couple cases in the morning

14:37:44 <josema> ...shape them in the afternoon

...shape them in the afternoon

14:37:49 <josema> move to next agendum

move to next agendum

14:37:49 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Next Meeting" taken up [from josema]

8. Next Meeting

14:38:05 <josema> Next meeting: F2F, then 29 Oct

Next meeting: F2F, then 29 Oct

14:38:33 <josema> john: we have a little bit more clarity for F2F

John Sheridan: we have a little bit more clarity for F2F

14:38:42 <josema> ... a couple more areas to work on

... a couple more areas to work on

14:38:53 <josema> ...and useful conversation today

...and useful conversation today

14:39:16 <josema> ...encourage you to post your thoughts before next week

...encourage you to post your thoughts before next week

14:39:22 <josema> ...so we could take up at the F2F

...so we could take up at the F2F

14:39:44 <john> q?

John Sheridan: q?

14:39:53 <josema> [ADJOURNED]

[ADJOURNED]

14:40:51 <Zakim> -washingtona

Scribe problem: the name 'washingtona' does not match any of the 39 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Amit Parashar Anne Washington Ari Schwartz Benjamin Nguyen Christopher Testa Dalila Chiadmi Ilker Karakas Jeffrey Sonstein John Sheridan John Wonderlich José Alonso Juan Rodríguez Rodríguez Katie Haritos-Shea Kevin Novak Kjetil Kjernsmo Laila Benhlima Malcolm Crompton Martin Mollema Mercedes Clark-Smith Oscar Azanon Esteire Owen Ambur Pasquale Popolizio Peter Krantz Pietro Russo Rachel Flagg Richard Murphy Rinke Hoekstra Roberto Castaldo Robin Berjon Rowan Smith Tanya Gupta Tim McMahon Tom van Engers Trond Undheim Vagner Diniz Vassilios Peristeras Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -washingtona

14:40:53 <Zakim> -rachel

Zakim IRC Bot: -rachel

14:40:56 <Zakim> -kjetil

Zakim IRC Bot: -kjetil

14:40:58 <Zakim> -martin

Zakim IRC Bot: -martin

14:40:59 <Zakim> -oscar

Zakim IRC Bot: -oscar

14:41:04 <josema> RRSagent, draft minutes

RRSagent, draft minutes

14:41:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-egov-minutes.html josema

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-egov-minutes.html josema

14:41:36 <josema> zakim, drop vagner

zakim, drop vagner

14:41:36 <Zakim> Vagner is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Vagner is being disconnected

14:41:37 <Zakim> -Vagner

Zakim IRC Bot: -Vagner

14:47:58 <Zakim> -Josema

(No events recorded for 6 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: -Josema

14:47:59 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended

14:48:01 <Zakim> Attendees were john, Josema, +31.61.830.aaaa, +1.301.455.aabb, +31.61.830.aacc, +1.509.464.aadd, martin, +1.202.731.aaee, kevin, +1.509.464.aaff, rachel, +1.301.455.aagg, owen,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were john, Josema, +31.61.830.aaaa, +1.301.455.aabb, +31.61.830.aacc, +1.509.464.aadd, martin, +1.202.731.aaee, kevin, +1.509.464.aaff, rachel, +1.301.455.aagg, owen,

14:48:03 <Zakim> ... trond, +55115509aahh, Vagner, oscar, kjetil, washingtona

Zakim IRC Bot: ... trond, +55115509aahh, Vagner, oscar, kjetil, washingtona

14:48:46 <josema> zakim, who's here?

zakim, who's here?

14:48:46 <Zakim> apparently T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended, josema

Zakim IRC Bot: apparently T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended, josema

14:48:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot

14:49:15 <josema> regrets+ chris

regrets+ chris

14:49:21 <josema> RRSAgent, draft minutes

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:49:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-egov-minutes.html josema

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-egov-minutes.html josema

15:07:30 <josema> zakim, bye

(No events recorded for 18 minutes)

zakim, bye

15:07:34 <josema> RRSAgent, bye

RRSAgent, bye

15:07:34 <RRSAgent> I see no action items

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items



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