12:59:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/08/07-dwbp-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/08/07-dwbp-irc ←
12:59:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 351
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs 351 ←
12:59:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DWBP
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be DWBP ←
12:59:23 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot ←
12:59:24 <trackbot> Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
12:59:24 <trackbot> Date: 07 August 2015
13:00:31 <phila> present+ phila
Phil Archer: present+ phila ←
13:00:39 <phila> Chair: yaso
13:00:43 <Eric_Kauz> present+ Eric_Kauz
Eric Kauz: present+ Eric_Kauz ←
13:00:45 <MTCarrasco> present+
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: present+ ←
13:00:55 <phila> phila has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150807 WebEx: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m2c0af451188e3c2177f8d56453c588e9
Phil Archer: phila has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150807 WebEx: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m2c0af451188e3c2177f8d56453c588e9 ←
13:00:57 <phila> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150807
13:01:40 <phila> regrets+ Caroline, Riccardo
Phil Archer: regrets+ Caroline, Riccardo ←
13:02:16 <PeterWinstanley> present+ PeterWinstanley
Peter Winstanley: present+ PeterWinstanley ←
13:03:55 <annette_g> present+
Annette Greiner: present+ ←
13:04:02 <phila> present+ annette
Phil Archer: present+ annette ←
13:04:08 <annette_g> thx
Annette Greiner: thx ←
13:05:13 <BernadetteLoscio> present+ BernadetteLoscio
Bernadette Farias Loscio: present+ BernadetteLoscio ←
13:05:28 <antoine> present+ antoine
Antoine Isaac: present+ antoine ←
13:05:43 <yaso> Scribe?
Yaso Córdova: Scribe? ←
13:05:50 <phila> scribe: antoine
(Scribe set to Antoine Isaac)
13:05:59 <yaso> http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-07-31
Yaso Córdova: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-07-31 ←
13:06:06 <antoine> Topic: approve previous minutes
13:06:22 <antoine> PROPOSED: to accept minutes of previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-07-31
PROPOSED: to accept minutes of previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-07-31 ←
13:06:27 <phila> +1
Phil Archer: +1 ←
13:06:30 <BernadetteLoscio> +1
Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←
13:06:32 <annette_g> +1
Annette Greiner: +1 ←
13:06:33 <MTCarrasco> +1
13:07:24 <antoine> RESOLVED: approved minutes of previous call: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-07-31
RESOLVED: approved minutes of previous call: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-07-31 ←
13:07:37 <antoine> Topic: Action 184
13:07:41 <yaso> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/184
Yaso Córdova: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/184 ←
13:07:48 <phila> action-184?
13:07:48 <trackbot> action-184 -- Peter Winstanley to Review the existing template and identify any additional fields that could be added to improve the bp -- due 2015-07-17 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-184 -- Peter Winstanley to Review the existing template and identify any additional fields that could be added to improve the bp -- due 2015-07-17 -- OPEN ←
13:07:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/184
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/184 ←
13:08:13 <antoine> Yaso: we have to resolve if we use the proposed template
Yaso Córdova: we have to resolve if we use the proposed template ←
13:08:39 <antoine> BernadetteLoscio: I think it's better. Peter could say more
Bernadette Farias Loscio: I think it's better. Peter could say more ←
13:08:46 <adler1> gm
Steven Adler: gm ←
13:09:05 <antoine> PeterWinstanley: I'd suggest to add elements
Peter Winstanley: I'd suggest to add elements ←
13:09:06 <yaso> present+ adler1
Yaso Córdova: present+ adler1 ←
13:09:16 <antoine> ... I think it's important to see how practices are related
... I think it's important to see how practices are related ←
13:09:23 <antoine> ... and see what the tensions/constraints are
... and see what the tensions/constraints are ←
13:09:45 <antoine> ... and whether implementing a BP is a one-off work or a continuous effort
... and whether implementing a BP is a one-off work or a continuous effort ←
13:09:56 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:10:01 <antoine> ... We have to focus on how the BPs are going to be used.
... We have to focus on how the BPs are going to be used. ←
13:10:11 <antoine> ... Make work upfront to help adoption.
... Make work upfront to help adoption. ←
13:10:48 <antoine> ... We have two key audiences: strategists/managers that will see what are the organizational stakes
... We have two key audiences: strategists/managers that will see what are the organizational stakes ←
13:10:59 <antoine> ... and then the technologists
... and then the technologists ←
13:11:02 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←
13:11:09 <yaso> ack BernadetteLoscio
Yaso Córdova: ack BernadetteLoscio ←
13:11:13 <antoine> ... We have to make sure we address both audiences.
... We have to make sure we address both audiences. ←
13:11:33 <antoine> BernadetteLoscio: I think the main audience of the doc is the technical team, not the managers.
Bernadette Farias Loscio: I think the main audience of the doc is the technical team, not the managers. ←
13:11:44 <antoine> ... I think we had agreed this at the Santa Clara F2F
... I think we had agreed this at the Santa Clara F2F ←
13:12:08 <antoine> ... Peter do you think we need to change the template, or add more info in the exsiting sections?
... Peter do you think we need to change the template, or add more info in the exsiting sections? ←
13:12:33 <laufer> present+ laufer
Carlos Laufer: present+ laufer ←
13:12:36 <antoine> ... e.g. adding relations between BPs is important, but I'm not sure we need to change the template.
... e.g. adding relations between BPs is important, but I'm not sure we need to change the template. ←
13:12:41 <yaso> present+ Adrianoc
Yaso Córdova: present+ Adrianoc ←
13:12:55 <yaso> present+ JoaoPauloAlmeida
Yaso Córdova: present+ JoaoPauloAlmeida ←
13:12:59 <antoine> PeterWinstanley: changing the template is a trivial task that has considerable benefits if we're going to add the info
Peter Winstanley: changing the template is a trivial task that has considerable benefits if we're going to add the info ←
13:13:16 <antoine> ... the info will be better understood if it's in its own heading
... the info will be better understood if it's in its own heading ←
13:13:38 <antoine> ... I'd encourage the group to do just a bit more work to make things more usable.
... I'd encourage the group to do just a bit more work to make things more usable. ←
13:13:56 <antoine> ... About the other point (audience).
... About the other point (audience). ←
13:14:09 <antoine> ... Even technical people have to managed what what they do
... Even technical people have to managed what what they do ←
13:14:22 <antoine> ... e.g. to illustrate that a piece of work is done
... e.g. to illustrate that a piece of work is done ←
13:14:32 <antoine> ... in a process that can be agile or waterfall.
... in a process that can be agile or waterfall. ←
13:14:34 <hadleybeeman> Present+ hadleybeeman
Hadley Beeman: Present+ hadleybeeman ←
13:14:48 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:14:49 <antoine> ... If we do it ourselves, it creates an extra layer of standardization
... If we do it ourselves, it creates an extra layer of standardization ←
13:14:54 <adler1> q+
Steven Adler: q+ ←
13:14:59 <antoine> ... and thus more buy-in.
... and thus more buy-in. ←
13:15:22 <antoine> Yaso: BernadetteLoscio, do you think we have time, that it's possible to add this?
Yaso Córdova: BernadetteLoscio, do you think we have time, that it's possible to add this? ←
13:15:30 <antoine> ... maybe work with PeterWinstanley ?
... maybe work with PeterWinstanley ? ←
13:15:37 <antoine> BernadetteLoscio: I think it's possible
Bernadette Farias Loscio: I think it's possible ←
13:15:54 <antoine> ... we can work in three areas / tradeoffs
... we can work in three areas / tradeoffs ←
13:16:34 <antoine> ... forces and tradeoffs could be difficult to handle before we have implemented BPs
... forces and tradeoffs could be difficult to handle before we have implemented BPs ←
13:16:37 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:17:01 <antoine> because many BPs are not extracted from what people are doing now, they were extracted from challenges.
because many BPs are not extracted from what people are doing now, they were extracted from challenges. ←
13:17:02 <yaso> adler, I was going to ask you about your view on this :-)
Yaso Córdova: adler, I was going to ask you about your view on this :-) ←
13:17:43 <yaso> ack adler1
Yaso Córdova: ack adler1 ←
13:17:49 <antoine> adler1: PeterWinstanley raised a good point
Steven Adler: PeterWinstanley raised a good point ←
13:18:04 <antoine> ... in a way he's propbably right
... in a way he's propbably right ←
13:18:12 <antoine> ... but that needs to be proven by market adoption
... but that needs to be proven by market adoption ←
13:18:35 <antoine> ... On the other hand, if Peter has identified a problem, then he could suggest a fix.
... On the other hand, if Peter has identified a problem, then he could suggest a fix. ←
13:19:08 <antoine> ... We could think of Peter's criteria when interpreting the (lack of) feedback from the market.
... We could think of Peter's criteria when interpreting the (lack of) feedback from the market. ←
13:19:16 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:19:21 <yaso> ack adler
Yaso Córdova: ack adler ←
13:19:27 <antoine> ... We're not getting feedback this probably means that our work is not accessible.
... We're not getting feedback this probably means that our work is not accessible. ←
13:19:54 <antoine> PeterWinstanley: I should perhaps take a few of these and work on suggestion for the content.
Peter Winstanley: I should perhaps take a few of these and work on suggestion for the content. ←
13:20:06 <yaso> present+ newton
Yaso Córdova: present+ newton ←
13:20:14 <antoine> adler1: not just people are not responding, it seems that other groups are not aware
Steven Adler: not just people are not responding, it seems that other groups are not aware ←
13:20:33 <antoine> ... and they seem to be discovering thta they have to do things that overlap with ours
... and they seem to be discovering thta they have to do things that overlap with ours ←
13:20:33 <PeterWinstanley> q+
Peter Winstanley: q+ ←
13:20:39 <yaso> ack PeterWinstanley
Yaso Córdova: ack PeterWinstanley ←
13:20:50 <antoine> ... this should be a measure of accessibility.
... this should be a measure of accessibility. ←
13:21:36 <phila> PeterWinstanley: It would be good if a manager can take a tick box approach
Peter Winstanley: It would be good if a manager can take a tick box approach [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
13:21:42 <yaso> thanks, phila
Yaso Córdova: thanks, phila ←
13:21:57 <phila> ... general managers like it when people do half the work for them
Phil Archer: ... general managers like it when people do half the work for them ←
13:21:59 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:22:10 <phila> q+ to make a suggestion about a tick box
Phil Archer: q+ to make a suggestion about a tick box ←
13:22:37 <phila> yaso: Do you, PW, think it can be done by expanding what is there, or do we need a separate doc for managers
Yaso Córdova: Do you, PW, think it can be done by expanding what is there, or do we need a separate doc for managers [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
13:22:41 <hadleybeeman> Q+ to be concerned about "managers"
Hadley Beeman: Q+ to be concerned about "managers" ←
13:22:55 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←
13:23:07 <phila> PeterWinstanley: It think it's only in the template. if the template is a comoputable structure, then we can create an audience-specific view
Peter Winstanley: It think it's only in the template. if the template is a comoputable structure, then we can create an audience-specific view [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
13:23:17 <phila> ... things like BP Recipe cards.
Phil Archer: ... things like BP Recipe cards. ←
13:23:40 <phila> ... So for managers, don't need to know how to implement, just what the impact is, the cost etc.
Phil Archer: ... So for managers, don't need to know how to implement, just what the impact is, the cost etc. ←
13:23:52 <phila> PeterWinstanley: Some decisions are a one off, like encoding
Peter Winstanley: Some decisions are a one off, like encoding [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
13:24:00 <phila> ... but maintenance and persistecne has an ongoing cost
Phil Archer: ... but maintenance and persistecne has an ongoing cost ←
13:24:13 <phila> ... adn these need to be factored in to any pieve of work
Phil Archer: ... adn these need to be factored in to any pieve of work ←
13:24:46 <phila> PeterWinstanley: We need to talk at differnet levels for different people. Forces and trade offs, projected outcomes etc.
Peter Winstanley: We need to talk at differnet levels for different people. Forces and trade offs, projected outcomes etc. [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
13:24:48 <phila> ack me
Phil Archer: ack me ←
13:24:48 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to make a suggestion about a tick box
Zakim IRC Bot: phila, you wanted to make a suggestion about a tick box ←
13:24:51 <yaso> ack phila
Yaso Córdova: ack phila ←
13:25:26 <yaso> phila: the examples are all currently collapsed, to see it you have to expand
Phil Archer: the examples are all currently collapsed, to see it you have to expand [ Scribe Assist by Yaso Córdova ] ←
13:25:32 <annette_g> q+ to ask about details of each implementation
Annette Greiner: q+ to ask about details of each implementation ←
13:25:36 <yaso> ... we can generate a checklist
Yaso Córdova: ... we can generate a checklist ←
13:26:09 <yaso> ... if it were possible to have a litlle selection menu that says
Yaso Córdova: ... if it were possible to have a litlle selection menu that says ←
13:26:24 <yaso> ... "I don't care about this, don't care about that, but I do care about this"
Yaso Córdova: ... "I don't care about this, don't care about that, but I do care about this" ←
13:26:41 <antoine_> phila: the example are currently collapsed. We could take the 'how to' section and make a tick box
Phil Archer: the example are currently collapsed. We could take the 'how to' section and make a tick box ←
13:26:43 <yaso> ... I think is something we haven't thought about
Yaso Córdova: ... I think is something we haven't thought about ←
13:27:04 <yaso> Thanks, antoine_
Yaso Córdova: Thanks, antoine_ ←
13:27:18 <antoine_> phila: some BP have zero costs, some have a big cost
Phil Archer: some BP have zero costs, some have a big cost ←
13:27:21 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:27:27 <yaso> ack hadleybeeman
Yaso Córdova: ack hadleybeeman ←
13:27:27 <Zakim> hadleybeeman, you wanted to be concerned about "managers"
Zakim IRC Bot: hadleybeeman, you wanted to be concerned about "managers" ←
13:27:32 <antoine_> ... some will be bad if they're not implemented
... some will be bad if they're not implemented ←
13:27:50 <antoine_> hadleybeeman: I'm concerned about discussion on 'managers'
Hadley Beeman: I'm concerned about discussion on 'managers' ←
13:28:09 <antoine_> ... cf our discussion at TPAC. We are a technical group.
... cf our discussion at TPAC. We are a technical group. ←
13:28:22 <phila> scribe: antoine
13:28:23 <antoine_> ... other aspects are important, but less crucial
... other aspects are important, but less crucial ←
13:28:26 <MTCarrasco> Technical group: +1
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: Technical group: +1 ←
13:28:29 <BernadetteLoscio> q-
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q- ←
13:28:39 <antoine_> ... What has W3C done? Refine CSS, define HTML, etc.
... What has W3C done? Refine CSS, define HTML, etc. ←
13:28:48 <antoine_> ... It doesn't talk about budgets.
... It doesn't talk about budgets. ←
13:29:03 <phila> q+
Phil Archer: q+ ←
13:29:04 <antoine_> ... I'm aware that costs impact decisions
... I'm aware that costs impact decisions ←
13:29:14 <antoine_> ... but we have the luxury to set standards.
... but we have the luxury to set standards. ←
13:29:14 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←
13:29:19 <MTCarrasco> q+
13:29:33 <antoine_> ... We can keep the BP and argue about their technical aspects
... We can keep the BPs and argue about their technical aspects ←
13:29:39 <antoine_> s/BP/BPs
13:29:41 <phila> ack annette_g
Phil Archer: ack annette_g ←
13:29:41 <Zakim> annette_g, you wanted to ask about details of each implementation
Zakim IRC Bot: annette_g, you wanted to ask about details of each implementation ←
13:29:41 <yaso> ack annette_g
Yaso Córdova: ack annette_g ←
13:30:17 <antoine_> annette_g: what Peter suggest relate to the implementation
Annette Greiner: what Peter suggest relate to the implementation ←
13:30:35 <antoine_> ... and fit the existing material there
... and fit the existing material there ←
13:30:39 <BernadetteLoscio> +1 to connect BP
Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 to connect BP ←
13:30:44 <antoine_> ... Maybe Peter can give a try
... Maybe Peter can give a try ←
13:30:57 <antoine_> ... I agree that connecting BPs is important.
... I agree that connecting BPs is important. ←
13:31:01 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:31:03 <BernadetteLoscio> q-
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q- ←
13:31:03 <phila> ack me
Phil Archer: ack me ←
13:31:25 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:32:36 <antoine_> phila: the ShaprePSI project mentions policy
Phil Archer: the ShaprePSI project mentions policy ←
13:32:42 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←
13:32:55 <yaso> q+
Yaso Córdova: q+ ←
13:32:56 <antoine_> ... Hadley, would you be happy if as part of the structure we had not on the (cost of) implementation?
... Hadley, would you be happy if as part of the structure we had not on the (cost of) implementation? ←
13:33:00 <PeterWinstanley> q+
Peter Winstanley: q+ ←
13:33:03 <antoine_> hadleybeeman: it feels out of scope
Hadley Beeman: it feels out of scope ←
13:33:21 <antoine_> ... we have not set up the group around this expertise
... we have not set up the group around this expertise ←
13:33:28 <antoine_> ... and technology changes dramatically
... and technology changes dramatically ←
13:33:36 <annette_g> what is best practice changes,too
Annette Greiner: what is best practice changes,too ←
13:33:47 <adler1> q+
Steven Adler: q+ ←
13:34:08 <antoine_> MTCarrasco: we are a technical group
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: we are a technical group ←
13:34:09 <yaso> q+ to add to hadleybeeman concerns that we have a lot o different views on budgets for diff countries
Yaso Córdova: q+ to add to hadleybeeman concerns that we have a lot o different views on budgets for diff countries ←
13:34:18 <antoine_> ... we have to write our document as clear as possible
... we have to write our document as clear as possible ←
13:34:22 <yaso> q-
Yaso Córdova: q- ←
13:34:22 <hadleybeeman> Good point, yaso
Hadley Beeman: Good point, yaso ←
13:34:25 <antoine_> ... the intro could be a maangerial summary
... the intro could be a maangerial summary ←
13:34:30 <MTCarrasco> We are a technical group - write the docs clearly - the introduction should be like a management summary - give estimation of cost (phil)
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: We are a technical group - write the docs clearly - the introduction should be like a management summary - give estimation of cost (phil) ←
13:34:39 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:34:45 <yaso> ack MTCarrasco
Yaso Córdova: ack MTCarrasco ←
13:34:50 <yaso> ack BernadetteLoscio
Yaso Córdova: ack BernadetteLoscio ←
13:35:06 <antoine_> BernadetteLoscio: instead of adding cost info on each BP, we may add info on the level of complexity
Bernadette Farias Loscio: instead of adding cost info on each BP, we may add info on the level of complexity ←
13:35:17 <yaso> +1 to BernadetteLoscio, think it's a better approach
Yaso Córdova: +1 to BernadetteLoscio, think it's a better approach ←
13:35:22 <laufer> +1 to bernadette
Carlos Laufer: +1 to bernadette ←
13:35:23 <antoine_> ... it could be part of the maturity model we are discussing
... it could be part of the maturity model we are discussing ←
13:35:23 <PeterWinstanley> q-
Peter Winstanley: q- ←
13:35:25 <MTCarrasco> Cost+
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: Cost+ ←
13:35:34 <MTCarrasco> Complexity+
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: Complexity+ ←
13:35:55 <antoine_> ... it may be hard to identify the areas missing in the BP
... it may be hard to identify the areas missing in the BP ←
13:35:55 <MTCarrasco> They are separated concepts - not always the same
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: They are separated concepts - not always the same ←
13:35:55 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:36:01 <hadleybeeman> q+ on complexity
Hadley Beeman: q+ on complexity ←
13:36:17 <yaso> ack adler
Yaso Córdova: ack adler ←
13:36:27 <antoine_> adler1: we should continue on our track
Steven Adler: we should continue on our track ←
13:36:38 <antoine_> ... the question of accessibility are important
... the question of accessibility are important ←
13:36:39 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←
13:36:55 <antoine_> ... how the market perceives the value of our work is important.
... how the market perceives the value of our work is important. ←
13:37:14 <antoine_> ... either direct feedback or indirect feedback (amount of comments, awareness)
... either direct feedback or indirect feedback (amount of comments, awareness) ←
13:37:16 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:37:20 <MTCarrasco> q+
13:37:27 <antoine_> ... these would be meaningful benchmark
... these would be meaningful benchmark ←
13:37:43 <antoine_> ... we shoudl go beyond just publishing the drafts.
... we shoudl go beyond just publishing the drafts. ←
13:37:51 <yaso> ack hadleybeeman
Yaso Córdova: ack hadleybeeman ←
13:37:51 <Zakim> hadleybeeman, you wanted to comment on complexity
Zakim IRC Bot: hadleybeeman, you wanted to comment on complexity ←
13:38:02 <antoine_> hadleybeeman: interesting point about feedback!
Hadley Beeman: interesting point about feedback! ←
13:38:14 <antoine_> ... Complecity is easier to address than costs
... Complexity is easier to address than costs ←
13:38:41 <antoine_> ... some old specs would be useless if complexity was too much in it
... some old specs would be useless if complexity was too much in it ←
13:38:45 <antoine_> ... because it changes
... because it changes ←
13:38:54 <antoine_> s/Complecity/Complexity
13:39:10 <antoine_> ... There's a difference between creating standards and making roadmaps.
... There's a difference between creating standards and making roadmaps. ←
13:39:26 <antoine_> ... I'm not sure how much of roadmapping is in oour responsibility.
... I'm not sure how much of roadmapping is in our responsibility. ←
13:39:33 <antoine_> s/oour/our
13:39:33 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:39:39 <yaso> Ack BernadetteLoscio
Yaso Córdova: Ack BernadetteLoscio ←
13:39:56 <antoine_> BernadetteLoscio: I don't know if we can do it
Bernadette Farias Loscio: I don't know if we can do it ←
13:40:13 <antoine_> ... if we're going to propose a maturity model, we need criteria to evaluate the BPs
... if we're going to propose a maturity model, we need criteria to evaluate the BPs ←
13:40:30 <annette_g> q+
Annette Greiner: q+ ←
13:40:45 <antoine_> (antoine: I thought the maturity model was for evaluating datasets, not BPs)
(antoine: I thought the maturity model was for evaluating datasets, not BPs) ←
13:40:50 <yaso> ack MTCarrasco
Yaso Córdova: ack MTCarrasco ←
13:41:08 <antoine_> MTCarrasco: the more complex a BP is, the less chance it will be implemented.
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: the more complex a BP is, the less chance it will be implemented. ←
13:41:15 <adler1> I lost audio
Steven Adler: I lost audio ←
13:41:25 <MTCarrasco> There more complex and costly, the less likely it would be implemented - do not introduce unnecessary complexity -
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: There more complex and costly, the less likely it would be implemented - do not introduce unnecessary complexity - ←
13:41:32 <antoine_> ... unnecessary complexity will not help adoption
... unnecessary complexity will not help adoption ←
13:41:37 <antoine_> ... e.g. SGML vs XML
... e.g. SGML vs XML ←
13:41:43 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:41:48 <yaso> ack annette_g
Yaso Córdova: ack annette_g ←
13:41:49 <antoine_> Yaso: I agree
Yaso Córdova: I agree ←
13:42:02 <antoine_> annette_g: we can just ask Peter to try
Annette Greiner: we can just ask Peter to try ←
13:42:05 <PeterWinstanley> OK .... will do
Peter Winstanley: OK .... will do ←
13:42:09 <antoine_> ... and see whether it stands the test of time
... and see whether it stands the test of time ←
13:42:31 <antoine_> Yaso: Peter would you mind?
Yaso Córdova: Peter would you mind? ←
13:42:40 <antoine_> Peter: I'll prepare some example
Peter Winstanley: I'll prepare some example ←
13:42:43 <BernadetteLoscio> thank you Peter!
Bernadette Farias Loscio: thank you Peter! ←
13:43:37 <antoine_> suggest " Peter to create examples following his suggestions on action 184"
suggest " Peter to create examples following his suggestions on ACTION-184" ←
13:43:58 <antoine_> ACTION: Peter to create examples following his suggestions on action 184
ACTION: Peter to create examples following his suggestions on ACTION-184 ←
13:43:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-191 - Create examples following his suggestions on action 184 [on Peter Winstanley - due 2015-08-14].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-191 - Create examples following his suggestions on ACTION-184 [on Peter Winstanley - due 2015-08-14]. ←
13:44:00 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:44:15 <antoine_> close action-184
close ACTION-184 ←
13:44:15 <trackbot> Closed action-184.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-184. ←
13:44:38 <antoine_> Topic: Open actions
13:44:57 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:45:15 <antoine_> BernadetteLoscio: I propose to discuss Eric's message
Bernadette Farias Loscio: I propose to discuss Eric's message ←
13:45:38 <antoine_> ... didn't have the time to look at all actions
... didn't have the time to look at all actions ←
13:46:14 <antoine_> Yaso: ok if it helps your work
Yaso Córdova: ok if it helps your work ←
13:46:46 <antoine_> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Jun/0148.html ?
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Jun/0148.html ? ←
13:46:57 <BernadetteLoscio> Re - some comments on the DWBP draft
Bernadette Farias Loscio: Re - some comments on the DWBP draft ←
13:47:16 <phila> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Jul/0039.html
Phil Archer: -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Jul/0039.html ←
13:47:57 <phila> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-comments/2015Jul/0001.html This one
Phil Archer: -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-comments/2015Jul/0001.html This one ←
13:48:25 <phila> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-comments/2015Jul/0002.html Spatial Data WG
Phil Archer: -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-comments/2015Jul/0002.html Spatial Data WG ←
13:48:35 <antoine_> phila: same discussion on the geospatial group
Phil Archer: same discussion on the geospatial group ←
13:48:40 <annette_g> q+
Annette Greiner: q+ ←
13:48:51 <antoine_> BernadetteLoscio: what I'd like to discuss is the meaning of creating links between data resources
Bernadette Farias Loscio: what I'd like to discuss is the meaning of creating links between data resources ←
13:49:08 <antoine_> ... using hyperlinks? It's not clear to me.
... using hyperlinks? It's not clear to me. ←
13:49:41 <antoine_> phila: on the Geospatial group I pointed that it was a good discussion but the wrong group/
Phil Archer: on the Geospatial group I pointed that it was a good discussion but the wrong group/ ←
13:49:53 <MTCarrasco> q+
13:50:04 <BernadetteLoscio> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-comments/2015Aug/0001.html
Bernadette Farias Loscio: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-comments/2015Aug/0001.html ←
13:50:06 <antoine_> ... it's about using the web as a data platform
... it's about using the web as a data platform ←
13:50:18 <antoine_> ... make links between things
... make links between things ←
13:50:27 <antoine_> ... deep into the data structure
... deep into the data structure ←
13:50:40 <antoine_> ... not only hyperlinks between web pages
... not only hyperlinks between web pages ←
13:50:45 <adler1> +1 phila
Steven Adler: +1 phila ←
13:50:55 <antoine_> ... creating a web of data not just downloading files.
... creating a web of data not just downloading files. ←
13:51:04 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←
13:51:20 <antoine_> ... In terms of what we're working, it connects to data identification and enrichment.
... In terms of what we're working, it connects to data identification and enrichment. ←
13:51:30 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:51:35 <antoine_> ... how to include this?
... how to include this? ←
13:51:40 <yaso> ack annette_g
Yaso Córdova: ack annette_g ←
13:52:02 <antoine_> annette_g: I'm going to write a BP on hypermedia that will include a lot of this stuff
Annette Greiner: I'm going to write a BP on hypermedia that will include a lot of this stuff ←
13:52:05 <yaso> +1 to annette_g
Yaso Córdova: +1 to annette_g ←
13:52:14 <antoine_> ... we shoudl think about meeting the criteria he mentions.
... we shoudl think about meeting the criteria he mentions. ←
13:52:16 <MTCarrasco> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Aug/0024.html
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Aug/0024.html ←
13:52:16 <yaso> ack MTCarrasco
Yaso Córdova: ack MTCarrasco ←
13:52:25 <phila> +1 annette_g - please see the thread in the other group https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-comments/2015Jul/0002.html
Phil Archer: +1 annette_g - please see the thread in the other group https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-comments/2015Jul/0002.html ←
13:52:32 <antoine_> MTCarrasco: he's coming to the URI question again and again.
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: he's coming to the URI question again and again. ←
13:52:46 <antoine_> ... the concept of variant doesn't come back
... the concept of variant doesn't come back ←
13:52:55 <antoine_> ... the same page could be in HTML and PDF
... the same page could be in HTML and PDF ←
13:53:01 <antoine_> ... variants of a same one.
... variants of a same one. ←
13:53:17 <antoine_> ... One should point to a page, but a place in a page.
... One should point to a page, but a place in a page. ←
13:53:33 <antoine_> ... 6 month ago I've wrote something on URI
... 6 month ago I've wrote something on URI ←
13:53:39 <phila> (although my beef with Erik is that fragments are not transmitted over the wire which might be an issue)
Phil Archer: (although my beef with Erik is that fragments are not transmitted over the wire which might be an issue) ←
13:53:44 <antoine_> ... we shoudl address the question of the URI.
... we shoudl address the question of the URI. ←
13:53:52 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:53:57 <yaso> Ack BernadetteLoscio
Yaso Córdova: Ack BernadetteLoscio ←
13:54:23 <MTCarrasco> http://dragoman.org/comuri
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: http://dragoman.org/comuri ←
13:54:24 <phila> q+ to try and help Berna
Phil Archer: q+ to try and help Berna ←
13:54:34 <antoine_> BernadetteLoscio: still a bit confused. I can see how to suggest creating link between data
Bernadette Farias Loscio: still a bit confused. I can see how to suggest creating link between data ←
13:54:46 <antoine_> ... I don't know how to create links using hyperlinks
... I don't know how to create links using hyperlinks ←
13:54:47 <MTCarrasco> q+
13:54:55 <antoine_> ... we should have links with meaning.
... we should have links with meaning. ←
13:55:01 <antoine_> q+
q+ ←
13:55:12 <yaso> ack phila
Yaso Córdova: ack phila ←
13:55:12 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to try and help Berna
Zakim IRC Bot: phila, you wanted to try and help Berna ←
13:55:19 <MTCarrasco> "A Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) is a compact sequence of characters that identifies an abstract or physical resource."
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: "A Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) is a compact sequence of characters that identifies an abstract or physical resource." ←
13:55:37 <antoine_> phila: it is about using URIs, and URI structure matters indeed.
Phil Archer: it is about using URIs, and URI structure matters indeed. ←
13:55:44 <MTCarrasco> Phil - individual data point +1
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: Phil - individual data point +1 ←
13:55:53 <antoine_> ... see discussion on the list with Annette
... see discussion on the list with Annette ←
13:56:02 <antoine_> ... using URIs and de-referencing
... using URIs and de-referencing ←
13:56:28 <laufer> sorry about the text comment, but we will have no time to talk in this meeting... I think that we are not talking only about the web of Data...
Carlos Laufer: sorry about the text comment, but we will have no time to talk in this meeting... I think that we are not talking only about the web of Data... ←
13:56:28 <antoine_> ... making data available and every bit of the data available and linkable too.
... making data available and every bit of the data available and linkable too. ←
13:56:49 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:56:56 <MTCarrasco> URI mnemonics
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: URI mnemonics ←
13:56:58 <antoine_> ... we should think of incorportaing webby ids in everything we are writing.
... we should think of incorporating webby ids in everything we are writing. ←
13:57:09 <yaso> ack MTCarrasco
Yaso Córdova: ack MTCarrasco ←
13:57:10 <phila> zakim, time speakers 90 seconds
Phil Archer: zakim, time speakers 90 seconds ←
13:57:10 <Zakim> ok, phila
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, phila ←
13:57:14 <phila> ack MTCarrasco
Phil Archer: ack MTCarrasco ←
13:57:16 <antoine_> s/incorportaing/incorporating
13:57:30 <yaso> ack antoine_
Yaso Córdova: ack antoine_ ←
13:57:32 <phila> ack ant
Phil Archer: ack ant ←
13:58:02 <antoine_> MTCarrasco: URIs shouldn't be meaningful
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: URIs shouldn't be meaningful ←
13:58:15 <annette_g> * linked data but not Linked Data
Annette Greiner: * linked data but not Linked Data ←
13:58:36 <antoine_> antoine: is it about LD, simple?
Antoine Isaac: is it about LD, simple? ←
13:58:43 <yaso> q?
Yaso Córdova: q? ←
13:58:45 <antoine_> phila: it goes beyond
Phil Archer: it goes beyond ←
13:58:53 <phila> zakim, stop timing speakers
Phil Archer: zakim, stop timing speakers ←
13:58:53 <Zakim> ok, phila
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, phila ←
13:59:02 <MTCarrasco> URI are just indentifier - they should be mnemonics - not long description contained in the URI
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: URI are just indentifier - they should be mnemonics - not long description contained in the URI ←
13:59:03 <antoine_> annette_g: it's linked data but not Linked Data
Annette Greiner: it's linked data but not Linked Data ←
13:59:27 <phila> I don't agree MTCarrasco ;-) Structure helps persistence :-)
Phil Archer: I don't agree MTCarrasco ;-) Structure helps persistence :-) ←
13:59:31 <antoine_> yaso: suggests discussing it by mail
Yaso Córdova: suggests discussing it by mail ←
13:59:31 <MTCarrasco> bye
Manuel Carrasco Benitez: bye ←
13:59:34 <annette_g> bye!
Annette Greiner: bye! ←
13:59:35 <BartvanLeeuwen> thx bye
Bart van Leeuwen: thx bye ←
13:59:36 <laufer> bye all...
Carlos Laufer: bye all... ←
13:59:50 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> bye
Joao Almeida: bye ←
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