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Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group

Minutes of 04 September 2014

Seen
Antoine Isaac, Bernadette Farias Loscio, Eric Stephan, Makx Dekkers, Phil Archer
Regrets
Antoine Isaac
Chair
Unknown Eric
Scribe
Phil Archer
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics

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15:26:28 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-irc

15:26:49 <phila> phila has changed the topic to: Vocabularies Call 4 Sept 2014

Phil Archer: phila has changed the topic to: Vocabularies Call 4 Sept 2014

15:58:31 <phila> zakim, this will be dwbp

(No events recorded for 31 minutes)

Phil Archer: zakim, this will be dwbp

15:58:31 <Zakim> ok, phila; I see DATA_DWBP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, phila; I see DATA_DWBP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

15:58:43 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public

Phil Archer: RRSAgent, make logs public

16:01:14 <Zakim> DATA_DWBP()12:00PM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: DATA_DWBP()12:00PM has now started

16:01:20 <Zakim> +ericstephan

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericstephan

16:01:58 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:02:09 <phila> zakim, ipcaller is me

Phil Archer: zakim, ipcaller is me

16:02:09 <Zakim> +phila; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +phila; got it

16:04:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:05:12 <BernadetteLoscio> zakim, ipcaller is BernadetteLoscio

Bernadette Farias Loscio: zakim, ipcaller is BernadetteLoscio

16:05:12 <Zakim> +BernadetteLoscio; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +BernadetteLoscio; got it

16:07:27 <phila> Tite Todesco <titetodesco@gmail.com>

Phil Archer: Tite Todesco <titetodesco@gmail.com>

16:09:15 <phila> scribe: phila

(Scribe set to Phil Archer)

16:09:27 <phila> ericstephan: this is open agenda

Eric Stephan: this is open agenda

16:09:34 <ericstephan> topic:   open agenda

1. open agenda

16:10:26 <phila> ericstephan: At the end of July a lot of our efforts were losing steam, everyone getting distracted. I think this month is the opp to regroup and figure out where we want to go by the time of the f2f meeting at TPAC

Eric Stephan: At the end of July a lot of our efforts were losing steam, everyone getting distracted. I think this month is the opp to regroup and figure out where we want to go by the time of the f2f meeting at TPAC

16:10:35 <ericstephan> topic:  preparation for F2F1 for data usage

2. preparation for F2F1 for data usage

16:11:09 <phila> ericstephan: If I'm speaking about things already agreed on, tell me, but I've gone through e-mails and got impressions so far

Eric Stephan: If I'm speaking about things already agreed on, tell me, but I've gone through e-mails and got impressions so far

16:11:15 <ericstephan> Revisiting the use cases for data usage - are they complete enough?   https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Use_Cases

Eric Stephan: Revisiting the use cases for data usage - are they complete enough? https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Use_Cases

16:12:07 <phila> ericstephan: do we have enough in the UCR for the DUV?

Eric Stephan: do we have enough in the UCR for the DUV?

16:12:17 <phila> ... or do we need more?

... or do we need more?

16:12:54 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: I don't think the Use cases are focussed on data usage. It's more about the publication side. Not about experiences of how the data was used

Bernadette Farias Loscio: I don't think the Use cases are focussed on data usage. It's more about the publication side. Not about experiences of how the data was used

16:13:09 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: I don't know if we can extract what we need yet

Bernadette Farias Loscio: I don't know if we can extract what we need yet

16:13:51 <phila> ericstephan: It would be helpful for me ... there were several efforts to do this... but is it defined. And you were asking whether we have the use cases yet

Eric Stephan: It would be helpful for me ... there were several efforts to do this... but is it defined. And you were asking whether we have the use cases yet

16:13:56 <phila> ... we need that as a firm foundation

... we need that as a firm foundation

16:14:15 <phila> ericstephan: so I think we should tackle that first - identify the use cases and identifying what other UCs we might need

Eric Stephan: so I think we should tackle that first - identify the use cases and identifying what other UCs we might need

16:14:53 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: I think it would be interesting to have more user cases. Can we contact some people and find out what they'd like? People from government, hackathons etc.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: I think it would be interesting to have more user cases. Can we contact some people and find out what they'd like? People from government, hackathons etc.

16:15:47 <ericstephan> phila: perhaps we could ask Steve and Yaso to go to other groups to help us develop more use cases from other partners.

Phil Archer: perhaps we could ask Steve and Yaso to go to other groups to help us develop more use cases from other partners. [ Scribe Assist by Eric Stephan ]

16:16:34 <ericstephan> phila:  they could speak to people in the field to speak to communities they represent and get a status.

Phil Archer: they could speak to people in the field to speak to communities they represent and get a status. [ Scribe Assist by Eric Stephan ]

16:16:37 <Zakim> +Makx_Dekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: +Makx_Dekkers

16:16:43 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: do you think it wouold be good to have a template for the use cases?

Bernadette Farias Loscio: do you think it wouold be good to have a template for the use cases?

16:17:44 <phila> ericstephan: So an action item is to send out a call for help. Yes, ask Steve and Yaso but we can ask others too.

Eric Stephan: So an action item is to send out a call for help. Yes, ask Steve and Yaso but we can ask others too.

16:18:59 <phila> action: ericstephan to write to Steve and seek help with developing use cases for data usage

ACTION: ericstephan to write to Steve and seek help with developing use cases for data usage

16:19:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-73 - Write to steve and seek help with developing use cases for data usage [on Eric Stephan - due 2014-09-11].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-73 - Write to steve and seek help with developing use cases for data usage [on Eric Stephan - due 2014-09-11].

16:19:19 <phila> action: Bernadette to write to Yaso to seek help with developing use cases for data usage

ACTION: Bernadette to write to Yaso to seek help with developing use cases for data usage

16:19:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-74 - Write to yaso to seek help with developing use cases for data usage [on Bernadette Farias Loscio - due 2014-09-11].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-74 - Write to yaso to seek help with developing use cases for data usage [on Bernadette Farias Loscio - due 2014-09-11].

16:19:45 <phila> MakxDekkers: I have problems understanding exactly what we're trying to do here... we need to know who we need to get in touch with

Makx Dekkers: I have problems understanding exactly what we're trying to do here... we need to know who we need to get in touch with

16:20:15 <phila> ... for example, I have the people from listpoint.co.uk - they have usage profiles, but I don't have a good view of what the DUV is trying to achieve

... for example, I have the people from listpoint.co.uk - they have usage profiles, but I don't have a good view of what the DUV is trying to achieve

16:20:21 <phila> ... we need to talk to people who need it

... we need to talk to people who need it

16:20:38 <ericstephan>   Charter reference:  http://www.w3.org/2013/05/odbp-charter.html

Eric Stephan: Charter reference http://www.w3.org/2013/05/odbp-charter.html

16:20:48 <ericstephan>   Original proposed definition:  https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Data_Usage_Vocabulary_Definition

Eric Stephan: Original proposed definition: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Data_Usage_Vocabulary_Definition

16:20:58 <phila> ericstephan: which brings us to the chicken and egg... one of the things we've done... in the original charter, we worked to come up with a data usage definition

Eric Stephan: which brings us to the chicken and egg... one of the things we've done... in the original charter, we worked to come up with a data usage definition

16:21:03 <ericstephan>   Email thread:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2014Jul/0083.html

Eric Stephan: Email thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2014Jul/0083.html

16:21:20 <phila> ... and then based on that proposed definition, I've not done anything with it since that thread

... and then based on that proposed definition, I've not done anything with it since that thread

16:21:29 <phila> s/reference:/reference/
16:21:42 <phila> ... it would be good to have a clear idea of what we mean by data usage

... it would be good to have a clear idea of what we mean by data usage

16:22:26 <phila> ... it seems that the original definition has been accepted, but limitations? That can get confusing and I suggets we strike that out

... it seems that the original definition has been accepted, but limitations? That can get confusing and I suggets we strike that out

16:22:37 <phila> ... and focus on data processing, application usage, data connectivity

... and focus on data processing, application usage, data connectivity

16:22:54 <phila> ... woiuld it be helpful in these efforts to be more clear on what we mean by DU?

... woiuld it be helpful in these efforts to be more clear on what we mean by DU?

16:23:42 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: Yes. We've discussed this before - it's not really clear to me whether we're talking about ... do we mean how data is combined? Will the description be in an application? Part of the dataset?

Bernadette Farias Loscio: Yes. We've discussed this before - it's not really clear to me whether we're talking about ... do we mean how data is combined? Will the description be in an application? Part of the dataset?

16:25:03 <phila> MakxDekkers: The problem that I see that I'm not sure that users of the data aren't in this group? How do we reach out to people who are waiting for us to do this?

Makx Dekkers: The problem that I see that I'm not sure that users of the data aren't in this group? How do we reach out to people who are waiting for us to do this?

16:25:27 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: We can think that usage can be part of the data description, it would produce an instance of that description

Bernadette Farias Loscio: We can think that usage can be part of the data description, it would produce an instance of that description

16:26:19 <phila> MakxDekkers: You're saying it's info about monitoring hte use of the data and keeping track of that

Makx Dekkers: You're saying it's info about monitoring hte use of the data and keeping track of that

16:26:38 <phila> ... every time someone accesses the data, the DUV is used to record sometehing about that usage?

... every time someone accesses the data, the DUV is used to record sometehing about that usage?

16:26:47 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: Sort of...

Bernadette Farias Loscio: Sort of...

16:27:12 <phila> ericstephan: That sounds as like provenance?

Eric Stephan: That sounds as like provenance?

16:27:45 <phila> MakxDekkers: no, this is monitoring. You may record who was asking for the data, you may want to record what they're using it for?

Makx Dekkers: no, this is monitoring. You may record who was asking for the data, you may want to record what they're using it for?

16:28:20 <phila> ericstephan: I could argue that Prov covers that. There are 3 perspectives. One is data oriented, one is interaction, another is process oriented

Eric Stephan: I could argue that Prov covers that. There are 3 perspectives. One is data oriented, one is interaction, another is process oriented

16:28:33 <phila> q+

q+

16:28:40 <phila> q-

q-

16:29:48 <phila> phila: the danish mapping agency might be an example

Phil Archer: the danish mapping agency might be an example

16:30:17 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: we can do it in several ways, I'm going to combine it with...

Bernadette Farias Loscio: we can do it in several ways, I'm going to combine it with...

16:31:22 <ericstephan> phila:  the politics and business of making the data available are not always aligned.  someone in the management chain makes the decision to publish the data... (what we were thinking about in the charter).

Phil Archer: the politics and business of making the data available are not always aligned. someone in the management chain makes the decision to publish the data... (what we were thinking about in the charter). [ Scribe Assist by Eric Stephan ]

16:31:48 <ericstephan> phila:  In 6 months time they manager needs to be able determine what people have done with the data.

Phil Archer: In 6 months time they manager needs to be able determine what people have done with the data. [ Scribe Assist by Eric Stephan ]

16:32:31 <ericstephan> phila:  a way to encourage people to make data available on the web.  Being able to find out that someone created something interesting with the data.

Phil Archer: a way to encourage people to make data available on the web. Being able to find out that someone created something interesting with the data. [ Scribe Assist by Eric Stephan ]

16:33:46 <phila> ericstephan: would you mind writing that up as a use case?

Eric Stephan: would you mind writing that up as a use case?

16:34:20 <ericstephan> phila:  will write this up in a use case

Phil Archer: will write this up in a use case [ Scribe Assist by Eric Stephan ]

16:34:23 <phila> action: phil to write a use case that captures the thing about recognition of efforts made by data publishers

ACTION: phil to write a use case that captures the thing about recognition of efforts made by data publishers

16:34:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-75 - Write a use case that captures the thing about recognition of efforts made by data publishers [on Phil Archer - due 2014-09-11].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-75 - Write a use case that captures the thing about recognition of efforts made by data publishers [on Phil Archer - due 2014-09-11].

16:34:31 <BernadetteLoscio> http://appckan.com/

Bernadette Farias Loscio: http://appckan.com/

16:35:03 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: we created a means for app developers to describe what they've done

Bernadette Farias Loscio: we created a means for app developers to describe what they've done

16:35:04 <ericstephan> bernadette:  applications that use open data.

Bernadette Farias Loscio: applications that use open data. [ Scribe Assist by Eric Stephan ]

16:35:36 <phila> ... we created a repository of users of open data. We created a vocab that describes applications

... we created a repository of users of open data. We created a vocab that describes applications

16:36:22 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: The idea is that the application is described

Bernadette Farias Loscio: The idea is that the application is described

16:36:37 <phila> ... the student wrote 30 pages on this, all in Portuguese

... the student wrote 30 pages on this, all in Portuguese

16:37:36 <phila> ... so I'll write something up in English and share it with the group

... so I'll write something up in English and share it with the group

16:38:22 <ericstephan> phila:  what is the incentive for the application programmer to do this?  e.g. making it more discoverable

Phil Archer: what is the incentive for the application programmer to do this? e.g. making it more discoverable [ Scribe Assist by Eric Stephan ]

16:39:15 <ericstephan> phila:  If it is seen as schema.org  the reason why people markup pages with schema.org a couple of weeks ago, they now have their markup on 20% of their web pages.

Phil Archer: If it is seen as schema.org the reason why people markup pages with schema.org a couple of weeks ago, they now have their markup on 20% of their web pages. [ Scribe Assist by Eric Stephan ]

16:40:29 <phila> ericstephan: This is helping to raise my understanding... and to your point Makx, Prov is more of a nuits and bolts thing, but it's not hte kind of detail that people are going to instantly get

Eric Stephan: This is helping to raise my understanding... and to your point Makx, Prov is more of a nuits and bolts thing, but it's not hte kind of detail that people are going to instantly get

16:40:43 <phila> ... this is more of a human interface

... this is more of a human interface

16:40:49 <phila> ... cf. a pure machine interface

... cf. a pure machine interface

16:41:52 <ericstephan> phila:  stroking the ego of the application developer and data publisher, showing how data was used by this particular person.

Phil Archer: stroking the ego of the application developer and data publisher, showing how data was used by this particular person. [ Scribe Assist by Eric Stephan ]

16:43:27 <phila> ericstephan: Let's keep iterating on this. I think some improtance concepts were caught here.

Eric Stephan: Let's keep iterating on this. I think some improtance concepts were caught here.

16:43:49 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: one more thing - do you think we should prepare a template for the use cases?

Bernadette Farias Loscio: one more thing - do you think we should prepare a template for the use cases?

16:44:15 <phila> ... that might help people understand what we need from them

... that might help people understand what we need from them

16:44:26 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:44:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-minutes.html phila

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-minutes.html phila

16:44:59 <phila> chair: Eric

Scribe problem: the name 'Eric' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Eric Stephan Eric Kauz . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

16:45:14 <Zakim> -ericstephan

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericstephan

16:45:15 <Zakim> -phila

Zakim IRC Bot: -phila

16:45:29 <phila> regrets: Antoine
16:45:31 <Zakim> -Makx_Dekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: -Makx_Dekkers

16:45:38 <Zakim> -BernadetteLoscio

Zakim IRC Bot: -BernadetteLoscio

16:45:40 <Zakim> DATA_DWBP()12:00PM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: DATA_DWBP()12:00PM has ended

16:45:40 <Zakim> Attendees were ericstephan, phila, BernadetteLoscio, Makx_Dekkers

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were ericstephan, phila, BernadetteLoscio, Makx_Dekkers

16:45:42 <ericstephan> thank you phila for scribing and your invaluable input!

Eric Stephan: thank you phila for scribing and your invaluable input!

16:45:56 <ericstephan> :-)

Eric Stephan: :-)

16:46:01 <phila> RRSAgent, generate minutes

RRSAgent, generate minutes

16:46:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-minutes.html phila

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-minutes.html phila

16:46:13 <ericstephan> can I send you a paper we have sent to the web of things?

Eric Stephan: can I send you a paper we have sent to the web of things?

16:46:20 <ericstephan> It might be of interest to you.

Eric Stephan: It might be of interest to you.

16:46:57 <ericstephan> don't know if it will get accepted but it shows where we are heading.

Eric Stephan: don't know if it will get accepted but it shows where we are heading.

16:53:15 <phila> phila has changed the topic to: WG Meeting 5 September 2014 Canceled. See you next week

(No events recorded for 6 minutes)

phila has changed the topic to: WG Meeting 5 September 2014 Canceled. See you next week

17:02:41 <phila> zakim, bye

(No events recorded for 9 minutes)

zakim, bye

17:02:45 <phila> RRSAgent, bye

RRSAgent, bye

17:02:45 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-actions.rdf :

17:02:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericstephan to write to Steve and seek help with developing use cases for data usage [1]

ACTION: ericstephan to write to Steve and seek help with developing use cases for data usage [1]

17:02:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-irc#T16-18-59

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-irc#T16-18-59

17:02:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Bernadette to write to Yaso to seek help with developing use cases for data usage [2]

ACTION: Bernadette to write to Yaso to seek help with developing use cases for data usage [2]

17:02:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-irc#T16-19-19

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-irc#T16-19-19

17:02:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: phil to write a use case that captures the thing about recognition of efforts made by data publishers [3]

ACTION: phil to write a use case that captures the thing about recognition of efforts made by data publishers [3]

17:02:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-irc#T16-34-23

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/04-dwbp-irc#T16-34-23



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