08:09:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-irc ←
08:10:15 <PhilA> PhilA has changed the topic to: Agenda https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014
Phil Archer: PhilA has changed the topic to: Agenda https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014 ←
08:10:21 <PhilA> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014
08:11:10 <PhilA> chair: HadleyBeeman
08:11:35 <PhilA> meeting: DWBP WG F2F meeting, day 1
08:12:30 <MakxDekkers> passcode 3927# is not valid, don't get voice connection
Makx Dekkers: passcode 3927# is not valid, don't get voice connection ←
08:12:53 <MakxDekkers> was there also going to be a skype session?
Makx Dekkers: was there also going to be a skype session? ←
08:13:11 <PhilA> Yes, Makx
Phil Archer: Yes, Makx ←
08:13:20 <PhilA> Deirdre is working on getting a laptop set up for that
Phil Archer: Deirdre is working on getting a laptop set up for that ←
08:13:44 <MakxDekkers> OK hasn't the meeting started yet?
Makx Dekkers: OK hasn't the meeting started yet? ←
08:13:53 <HadleyBeeman> makxdekkers we're getting set up
Hadley Beeman: makxdekkers we're getting set up ←
08:14:16 <MakxDekkers> OK, gives me time to grab a coffee
Makx Dekkers: OK, gives me time to grab a coffee ←
08:14:20 <HadleyBeeman> go for it
Hadley Beeman: go for it ←
08:14:21 <HadleyBeeman> :)
Hadley Beeman: :) ←
08:14:21 <gatemezi> ah ok.. it gives me time to do other stuff ;)
Ghislain Atemezing: ah ok.. it gives me time to do other stuff ;) ←
08:19:34 <HadleyBeeman> We're sorting out the A/V and the phone line … bear with us
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Hadley Beeman: We're sorting out the A/V and the phone line … bear with us ←
08:20:00 <ericstephan> Okay standing by
Eric Stephan: Okay standing by ←
08:20:46 <PhilA> zakim, room for 5?
Phil Archer: zakim, room for 5? ←
08:20:49 <Zakim> ok, PhilA; conference Team_(dwbp)08:20Z scheduled with code 3927 (DWBP) for 60 minutes until 0920Z; however, please note that capacity is now overbooked
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA; conference Team_(dwbp)08:20Z scheduled with code 3927 (DWBP) for 60 minutes until 0920Z; however, please note that capacity is now overbooked ←
08:20:58 <PhilA> zakim, code?
Phil Archer: zakim, code? ←
08:20:58 <Zakim> the conference code is 3927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA ←
08:21:42 <Zakim> Team_(dwbp)08:20Z has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(dwbp)08:20Z has now started ←
08:21:50 <Zakim> +Makx_Dekkers
Zakim IRC Bot: +Makx_Dekkers ←
08:21:55 <Zakim> + +1.509.554.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.554.aaaa ←
08:22:14 <ericstephan> zakim +1.509.554.aaaa is ericstephan
Eric Stephan: zakim +1.509.554.aaaa is ericstephan ←
08:22:19 <Zakim> + +44.207.202.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.207.202.aabb ←
08:22:22 <MakxDekkers> Connected voice
Makx Dekkers: Connected voice ←
08:22:32 <PhilA> zakim, aabb is Steve
Phil Archer: zakim, aabb is Steve ←
08:22:32 <Zakim> +Steve; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steve; got it ←
08:22:33 <ericstephan> zakim, +1.509.554.aaaa is ericstephan
Eric Stephan: zakim, +1.509.554.aaaa is ericstephan ←
08:22:33 <Zakim> +ericstephan; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericstephan; got it ←
08:23:32 <deirdrelee> For those wanting to join webcam, we can connect via my skype: deirdrelee
Deirdre Lee: For those wanting to join webcam, we can connect via my skype: deirdrelee ←
08:23:42 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
Phil Archer: zakim, who is here? ←
08:23:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see Makx_Dekkers, ericstephan, Steve
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Makx_Dekkers, ericstephan, Steve ←
08:23:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see BrianMatthews, markharrison, Vagner_Br, deirdrelee, RickRobinson, CarlosIglesias, JohnGoodwin, Ig_Bittencourt, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ericstephan, gatemezi,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see BrianMatthews, markharrison, Vagner_Br, deirdrelee, RickRobinson, CarlosIglesias, JohnGoodwin, Ig_Bittencourt, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ericstephan, gatemezi, ←
08:23:44 <Zakim> ... MakxDekkers, ivan, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... MakxDekkers, ivan, trackbot ←
08:24:45 <PhilA> zakim, Steve has Hadley, Yaso, PhilA, deirdrelee, BrianMatthews, Ig_Bittencourt, Antoine
Phil Archer: zakim, Steve has Hadley, Yaso, PhilA, deirdrelee, BrianMatthews, Ig_Bittencourt, Antoine ←
08:24:45 <Zakim> +Hadley, Yaso, PhilA, deirdrelee, BrianMatthews, Ig_Bittencourt, Antoine; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Hadley, Yaso, PhilA, deirdrelee, BrianMatthews, Ig_Bittencourt, Antoine; got it ←
08:24:48 <MakxDekkers> zakim, Makx_Dekkers is me
Makx Dekkers: zakim, Makx_Dekkers is me ←
08:24:48 <Zakim> +MakxDekkers; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MakxDekkers; got it ←
08:25:40 <PhilA> topic: Welcome
08:25:58 <PhilA> Steve: Welcomes everyone, thanks those who have flown/travelled to be here
Steven Adler: Welcomes everyone, thanks those who have flown/travelled to be here [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
08:26:10 <ericstephan> I wish I could be there with you all
Eric Stephan: I wish I could be there with you all ←
08:26:25 <PhilA> ... attended conference on 50 years of alleviating proverty, programme begun by LBJ
Phil Archer: ... attended conference on 50 years of alleviating proverty, programme begun by LBJ ←
08:26:28 <PhilA> scribe: PhilA
(Scribe set to Phil Archer)
08:27:02 <PhilA> Steve: Percentage of population in poverty reduced, absolute numbers increased
Steven Adler: Percentage of population in poverty reduced, absolute numbers increased ←
08:28:05 <PhilA> Steve: tells a story about how people know each other, but many people don't work together. Seems a lost opportunity
Steven Adler: tells a story about how people know each other, but many people don't work together. Seems a lost opportunity ←
08:28:44 <PhilA> Steve: Describes outcome of meeting, plan was to put collected papers into a new book
Steven Adler: Describes outcome of meeting, plan was to put collected papers into a new book ←
08:29:04 <PhilA> ... problem is that people aren't working together
... problem is that people aren't working together ←
08:29:43 <PhilA> ... so our job is to provide standards that allow people to work together. That's what we're trying to achieve - better collaboration through open data
... so our job is to provide standards that allow people to work together. That's what we're trying to achieve - better collaboration through open data ←
08:29:57 <PhilA> ... we have a chance to make a big difference
... we have a chance to make a big difference ←
08:30:01 <PhilA> ... people are looking at us
... people are looking at us ←
08:31:04 <PhilA> Topic: The Name Game
08:31:15 <PhilA> rrsagent, make logs public
rrsagent, make logs public ←
08:32:41 <PhilA> Guest: Rick Robinson
08:32:52 <PhilA> Rick: Works on smart cities for IBM
Rick Robinson: Works on smart cities for IBM ←
08:33:09 <PhilA> JohnGoodwin: Introduces himself
John Goodwin: Introduces himself ←
08:33:40 <PhilA> markharrison: Here today to represent GS1 (although works for Cambridge University)
Mark Harrison: Here today to represent GS1 (although works for Cambridge University) ←
08:33:59 <PhilA> ... mentions LOD project at GS1
... mentions LOD project at GS1 ←
08:34:18 <PhilA> Laufer: Intrduces self
Carlos Laufer: Intrduces self ←
08:35:22 <MakxDekkers> deidre my skype name is makxdekkers
Makx Dekkers: deidre my skype name is makxdekkers ←
08:36:03 <gatemezi> I can now see them all.. Thanks Deirdre ;)
Ghislain Atemezing: I can now see them all.. Thanks Deirdre ;) ←
08:37:07 <PhilA> Vagner_Br: Introduces himself
Vagner Diniz: Introduces himself ←
08:37:40 <PhilA> bernadette: Introduces herself, from Recife in NE Brazil
Bernadette Farias Loscio: Introduces herself, from Recife in NE Brazil ←
08:37:47 <PhilA> Ig_Bittencourt: Introduces self
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Introduces self ←
08:38:43 <PhilA> Newton: Introduces self (from Nic.br)
Newton Calegari: Introduces self (from Nic.br) ←
08:39:14 <PhilA> Flavio: Introduces self from Sao Paolo
Flavio Yanai: Introduces self from NIC.br, Sao Paulo ←
08:39:58 <PhilA> Guest: Phil Tetlow
08:40:31 <PhilA> PhilT: Introduces self and recognises follow IBMers
Phil Tetlow: Introduces self and recognises follow IBMers ←
08:41:39 <PhilA> Adriano: Introduces self
Adriano Veloso: Introduces self ←
08:41:55 <PhilA> ... interested in big data, data mining etc
... interested in big data, data mining etc ←
08:42:28 <PhilA> Antoine: Introduces self from Europeana
Antoine Isaac: Introduces self from Europeana ←
08:43:34 <PhilA> CarlosIglesias: Introduces self
Carlos Iglesias: Introduces self ←
08:45:12 <PhilA> ... experience with OD in Spain, working with Web Foundation, CTIC etc.
... experience with OD in Spain, working with Web Foundation, CTIC etc. ←
08:45:21 <PhilA> Guest: Brian Matthews
08:46:26 <laufer> +laufer
Carlos Laufer: +laufer ←
08:47:03 <PhilA> BrianMatthews: Introduces self from STFC (Science and Technology Facilities Council) - astronomy, physics etc.
Brian Matthews: Introduces self from STFC (Science and Technology Facilities Council) - astronomy, physics etc. ←
08:47:56 <PhilA> BrianMatthews: refers to SKOS, see http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-primer/
Brian Matthews: refers to SKOS, see http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-primer/ ←
08:48:29 <PhilA> deirdrelee: Introduces self
Deirdre Lee: Introduces self ←
08:49:35 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers
Zakim IRC Bot: -MakxDekkers ←
08:49:48 <PhilA> yaso: Introduces self
Yaso Córdova: Introduces self ←
08:50:33 <Zakim> +MakxDekkers
Zakim IRC Bot: +MakxDekkers ←
08:51:55 <PhilA> PhilA: Introduces self
Phil Archer: Introduces self ←
08:52:00 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Introduces self
Hadley Beeman: Introduces self ←
08:52:14 <Zakim> + +33.4.93.00.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.4.93.00.aacc ←
08:52:31 <PhilA> zakim, aacc is gatemezi
zakim, aacc is gatemezi ←
08:52:32 <Zakim> +gatemezi; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gatemezi; got it ←
08:53:26 <PhilA> gatemezi: Introduces self (from Eurecom)
Ghislain Atemezing: Introduces self (from Eurecom) ←
08:53:30 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers
Zakim IRC Bot: -MakxDekkers ←
08:53:39 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
zakim, who is here? ←
08:53:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see ericstephan, Steve, gatemezi
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ericstephan, Steve, gatemezi ←
08:53:41 <Zakim> Steve has Hadley, Yaso, PhilA, deirdrelee, BrianMatthews, Ig_Bittencourt, Antoine
Zakim IRC Bot: Steve has Hadley, Yaso, PhilA, deirdrelee, BrianMatthews, Ig_Bittencourt, Antoine ←
08:53:41 <Zakim> On IRC I see antoine, raphael, laufer, yaso, Caroline_, HadleyBeeman, BrianMatthews, markharrison, Vagner_Br, deirdrelee, RickRobinson, CarlosIglesias, JohnGoodwin, Ig_Bittencourt,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see antoine, raphael, laufer, yaso, Caroline_, HadleyBeeman, BrianMatthews, markharrison, Vagner_Br, deirdrelee, RickRobinson, CarlosIglesias, JohnGoodwin, Ig_Bittencourt, ←
08:53:41 <Zakim> ... Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ericstephan, gatemezi, MakxDekkers, ivan, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ericstephan, gatemezi, MakxDekkers, ivan, trackbot ←
08:54:16 <Zakim> +MakxDekkers
Zakim IRC Bot: +MakxDekkers ←
08:54:28 <PhilA> ericstephan: Introduces self
Eric Stephan: Introduces self ←
08:54:49 <deirdrelee> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpi31t3gsbcrq6onet5o0280
Deirdre Lee: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7ecpi31t3gsbcrq6onet5o0280 ←
08:54:54 <deirdrelee> I'll post it on wiki too
Deirdre Lee: I'll post it on wiki too ←
08:55:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html raphael
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html raphael ←
08:55:23 <PhilA> PhilA: Just to note that ericstephan and BrianMatthews have similar interests here
Phil Archer: Just to note that ericstephan and BrianMatthews have similar interests here ←
08:55:24 <Vagner_Br> s/Sao Paolo/NIC.br, Sao Paulo/
08:55:37 <PhilA> MakxDekkers: Introduces self
Makx Dekkers: Introduces self ←
08:55:57 <PhilA> MakxDekkers: Consultant in Spain, works with PhilA on an EC project
Makx Dekkers: Consultant in Spain, works with PhilA on an EC project ←
08:56:07 <ericstephan> BrianMatthews Kerstin Kleese Van Dam (my manager) sends her greetings to you.
Eric Stephan: BrianMatthews Kerstin Kleese Van Dam (my manager) sends her greetings to you. ←
08:57:19 <MakxDekkers> maybe, I don't hear you guys not so well either
Makx Dekkers: maybe, I don't hear you guys not so well either ←
08:58:51 <deirdrelee> Google Hangout details on wiki: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014#Google_Hangout
Deirdre Lee: Google Hangout details on wiki: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014#Google_Hangout ←
09:06:14 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers
(No events recorded for 7 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: -MakxDekkers ←
09:07:11 <MakxDekkers> Disconnected phone line. Hearing you on hangout
Makx Dekkers: Disconnected phone line. Hearing you on hangout ←
09:09:38 <gatemezi> @all , I will send regret in 30 minutes for one hour because I have an appointment with my Doctor.. Sorry for that :(
Ghislain Atemezing: @all , I will send regret in 30 minutes for one hour because I have an appointment with my Doctor.. Sorry for that :( ←
09:09:47 <HadleyBeeman> Oh dear — sorry makxdekkers. We'll see if we can fix that
Hadley Beeman: Oh dear — sorry makxdekkers. We'll see if we can fix that ←
09:09:52 <HadleyBeeman> Bye for now, gatemezi!
Hadley Beeman: Bye for now, gatemezi! ←
09:10:10 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
zakim, who is here? ←
09:10:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see ericstephan, Steve, gatemezi
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ericstephan, Steve, gatemezi ←
09:10:12 <Zakim> Steve has Hadley, Yaso, PhilA, deirdrelee, BrianMatthews, Ig_Bittencourt, Antoine
Zakim IRC Bot: Steve has Hadley, Yaso, PhilA, deirdrelee, BrianMatthews, Ig_Bittencourt, Antoine ←
09:10:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see BernadetteLoscio, antoine, raphael, laufer, Caroline_, HadleyBeeman, BrianMatthews, markharrison, Vagner_Br, deirdrelee, RickRobinson, CarlosIglesias, JohnGoodwin,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see BernadetteLoscio, antoine, raphael, laufer, Caroline_, HadleyBeeman, BrianMatthews, markharrison, Vagner_Br, deirdrelee, RickRobinson, CarlosIglesias, JohnGoodwin, ←
09:10:12 <Zakim> ... Ig_Bittencourt, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ericstephan, gatemezi, MakxDekkers, ivan, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Ig_Bittencourt, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ericstephan, gatemezi, MakxDekkers, ivan, trackbot ←
09:10:26 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, steve has me
Hadley Beeman: zakim, steve has me ←
09:10:26 <Zakim> +HadleyBeeman; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +HadleyBeeman; got it ←
09:15:18 <PhilA> Topic: Target for meeting
09:15:48 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We hope to get to the point by end of tomorrow that we can publish the First Public Working Draft of the Use cases document
Hadley Beeman: We hope to get to the point by end of tomorrow that we can publish the First Public Working Draft of the Use cases document ←
09:16:13 <PhilA> ... an issue that has come up a lot, is how we work together. So I want to talk about how we can organise ourselves
... an issue that has come up a lot, is how we work together. So I want to talk about how we can organise ourselves ←
09:16:20 <PhilA> ... we need to do things that make sense to us
... we need to do things that make sense to us ←
09:16:26 <PhilA> ... we have to be working in the open
... we have to be working in the open ←
09:16:38 <PhilA> ... everyone can see what we're doing (e-mails are publicly archived)
... everyone can see what we're doing (e-mails are publicly archived) ←
09:16:42 <PhilA> ... but we can use whatever we like
... but we can use whatever we like ←
09:16:47 <PhilA> ... to build the deliverables
... to build the deliverables ←
09:16:59 <PhilA> ... quick reminder of the deliverables
... quick reminder of the deliverables ←
09:17:07 <PhilA> ... minimum things are 3 docs
... minimum things are 3 docs ←
09:17:22 <PhilA> ... the Best Practices Recommendation (some bullet points)
... the Best Practices Recommendation (some bullet points) ←
09:17:35 <PhilA> -> http://www.w3.org/2013/05/odbp-charter charter
-> http://www.w3.org/2013/05/odbp-charter charter ←
09:17:56 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We can work through that bullet list. We can drop them, add news ones, they're just a guide
Hadley Beeman: We can work through that bullet list. We can drop them, add news ones, they're just a guide ←
09:18:12 <PhilA> ... in addition, the WG agreed to create UCR
... in addition, the WG agreed to create UCR ←
09:18:33 <PhilA> ... we may well decidce that we need to write more, split the BP into multiple documents. We have a lot of leeway
... we may well decidce that we need to write more, split the BP into multiple documents. We have a lot of leeway ←
09:18:41 <PhilA> ... but this is what we begin with
... but this is what we begin with ←
09:18:59 <PhilA> ... Vagner was concerned about keeping track of our work on the UCR
... Vagner was concerned about keeping track of our work on the UCR ←
09:19:12 <PhilA> ... the wiki makes it easy to make lists, centralise things etc.
... the wiki makes it easy to make lists, centralise things etc. ←
09:19:39 <PhilA> -> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Use_cases_timetable Use Cases timetable
-> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Use_cases_timetable Use Cases timetable ←
09:20:00 <PhilA> ... probably want to change the wiki homepage
... probably want to change the wiki homepage ←
09:20:31 <PhilA> ... a big part of the chairs' job is to make the wiki useful and useable
... a big part of the chairs' job is to make the wiki useful and useable ←
09:20:59 <PhilA> laufer: I think the main page can be a little confusing if it has too many items
Carlos Laufer: I think the main page can be a little confusing if it has too many items ←
09:21:15 <PhilA> ... the main things of the groups are there
... the main things of the groups are there ←
09:21:55 <PhilA> Topic: The Use Case document
09:22:12 <PhilA> deirdrelee: Following on from what Hadley said... we've been working on the UCR doc
Deirdre Lee: Following on from what Hadley said... we've been working on the UCR doc ←
09:22:28 <PhilA> ... aim is that it is a lead into the deliverables (BP, QDV, DUV)
... aim is that it is a lead into the deliverables (BP, QDV, DUV) ←
09:22:42 <PhilA> ... goal is FPWD of UCR
... goal is FPWD of UCR ←
09:23:06 <PhilA> deirdrelee: We suggest that we start from the challenges
Deirdre Lee: We suggest that we start from the challenges ←
09:23:28 <PhilA> ... what were the problems/issues - so this is where we could potentially help
... what were the problems/issues - so this is where we could potentially help ←
09:23:40 <PhilA> ... yaso made the point about highlighting positive aspects
... yaso made the point about highlighting positive aspects ←
09:24:33 <PhilA> ... the challenges are in the Google doc https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhTZf3B9yQ3odGVvU3pBazFsY3pyUVppNDFSZGtyQkE&usp=sharing&richtext=true#gid=2
... the challenges are in the Google doc https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhTZf3B9yQ3odGVvU3pBazFsY3pyUVppNDFSZGtyQkE&usp=sharing&richtext=true#gid=2 ←
09:24:40 <PhilA> ... is the challenge relevant?
... is the challenge relevant? ←
09:24:56 <PhilA> ... so data on the Web should ... to make it reusable for example
... so data on the Web should ... to make it reusable for example ←
09:25:07 <PhilA> ... data should be in format X to be reusable
... data should be in format X to be reusable ←
09:25:14 <PhilA> ... or should include metadata Y to be reusable
... or should include metadata Y to be reusable ←
09:25:22 <PhilA> ... and then we need to consider whether it's in scope
... and then we need to consider whether it's in scope ←
09:25:27 <PhilA> ... is it in scope of W3C in general
... is it in scope of W3C in general ←
09:25:52 <PhilA> ... (i.e. about the technical infrastructure of the World Wide Web)
... (i.e. about the technical infrastructure of the World Wide Web) ←
09:26:02 <PhilA> ... and is it within our own expertise
... and is it within our own expertise ←
09:26:20 <PhilA> ... if so, then it becomes a requirement for one of the deliverables (potentially more than one)
... if so, then it becomes a requirement for one of the deliverables (potentially more than one) ←
09:26:57 <PhilA> deirdrelee: refers to
Deirdre Lee: refers to ←
09:27:02 <PhilA> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/csvw-ucr/ CSVW UCR
-> http://www.w3.org/TR/csvw-ucr/ CSVW UCR ←
09:27:25 <PhilA> Steve: I just want to ask about data on the Web, Open data, and data
Steven Adler: I just want to ask about data on the Web, Open data, and data ←
09:27:37 <PhilA> ... do we mean that these thingsa re the same or that these things are different?
... do we mean that these thingsa re the same or that these things are different? ←
09:27:45 <PhilA> laufer: I think for each of us it's different
Carlos Laufer: I think for each of us it's different ←
09:28:17 <PhilA> laufer: I am one of the people discussing this and the metamodels that we have
Carlos Laufer: I am one of the people discussing this and the metamodels that we have ←
09:28:34 <PhilA> ... things like CKAN and Soctrata have their own metamodels
... things like CKAN and Soctrata have their own metamodels ←
09:28:39 <yaso> q+
Yaso Córdova: q+ ←
09:28:51 <PhilA> Steve: So What did you mean when you wrote the charter
Steven Adler: So What did you mean when you wrote the charter ←
09:28:58 <HadleyBeeman> scribenick: hadleybeeman
(Scribe set to Hadley Beeman)
09:29:11 <RickRobinson> q+
Rick Robinson: q+ ←
09:29:37 <HadleyBeeman> phila: It began as the "Open Data Best Practices" working group. But discussing it, it became clear that was too narrow.
Phil Archer: It began as the "Open Data Best Practices" working group. But discussing it, it became clear that was too narrow. ←
09:30:08 <HadleyBeeman> … for example, one of the papers presented at that workshop were from Fujitsu, who use open data to augment a private system. Healthcare needs. The technology they use is the same, whether open or not.
… for example, one of the papers presented at that workshop were from Fujitsu, who use open data to augment a private system. Healthcare needs. The technology they use is the same, whether open or not. ←
09:30:20 <HadleyBeeman> … So, from a tech point of view, any distinction is irrelevant.
… So, from a tech point of view, any distinction is irrelevant. ←
09:30:27 <ericstephan> q+
Eric Stephan: q+ ←
09:30:35 <HadleyBeeman> … A lot of our use cases will be open data, but we must not exclude non-open data.
… A lot of our use cases will be open data, but we must not exclude non-open data. ←
09:30:48 <PhilA> yaso: I'd like to suggets a radical way through this
Yaso Córdova: I'd like to suggets a radical way through this [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
09:30:54 <HadleyBeeman> scribenick: phila
(Scribe set to Phil Archer)
09:30:57 <PhilA> ... I think today we can talk about data on the Web, not open data
... I think today we can talk about data on the Web, not open data ←
09:31:16 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
09:31:20 <HadleyBeeman> ack yaso
Hadley Beeman: ack yaso ←
09:31:25 <PhilA> yaso: There's too much focus on open data. We spent too much time talking about publishing and not eneugh about reuse
Yaso Córdova: There's too much focus on open data. We spent too much time talking about publishing and not eneugh about reuse ←
09:31:57 <antoine> q+
Antoine Isaac: q+ ←
09:32:53 <HadleyBeeman> steve: w3C does web standards. A city may do a lot of things before publishing data that may be out of scope for the W3C. Does "Data on the Web" show the distinction between what a group does before publication, vs out on the web?
Steven Adler: w3C does web standards. A city may do a lot of things before publishing data that may be out of scope for the W3C. Does "Data on the Web" show the distinction between what a group does before publication, vs out on the web? [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
09:33:22 <HadleyBeeman> Laufer: When you want to put this data on the Web, you have to make a transformation. This is the issue here. Our recommendation.
Carlos Laufer: When you want to put this data on the Web, you have to make a transformation. This is the issue here. Our recommendation. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
09:33:39 <HadleyBeeman> Phila: That's not ON the web — that's using the web as a glorified file transfer system
Phil Archer: That's not ON the web — that's using the web as a glorified file transfer system [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
09:33:49 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
09:34:03 <ericstephan> Do we need a "Data on the Web" definition document to bound this? CSV on the Web made something similar to define and bound tabular data http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/
Eric Stephan: Do we need a "Data on the Web" definition document to bound this? CSV on the Web made something similar to define and bound tabular data http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/ ←
09:34:06 <yaso> q+
Yaso Córdova: q+ ←
09:34:11 <markharrison> q+
Mark Harrison: q+ ←
09:34:12 <HadleyBeeman> ack rick
Hadley Beeman: ack rick ←
09:34:25 <PhilA> RickRobinson: I'll start from the city councils that I work with
Rick Robinson: I'll start from the city councils that I work with ←
09:34:47 <PhilA> ... they have a lot of data that they want to open, but don't have the tech skills to do some of the things we talk about
... they have a lot of data that they want to open, but don't have the tech skills to do some of the things we talk about ←
09:35:06 <PhilA> ... I think it would be helpful to have a common language for tech and non-tech people
... I think it would be helpful to have a common language for tech and non-tech people ←
09:35:18 <PhilA> PhilA: Nods to 5 stars of LOD
Phil Archer: Nods to 5 stars of LOD ←
09:35:37 <PhilA> RickRobinson: There's a section in the UCR on the revenue models tha implies that open data is freely available
Rick Robinson: There's a section in the UCR on the revenue models tha implies that open data is freely available ←
09:35:41 <PhilA> ... that's contentious
... that's contentious ←
09:35:52 <PhilA> ... is this WG getting into this area?
... is this WG getting into this area? ←
09:36:00 <PhilA> PhilA: Nods to recent Web payments Wworksho[p
Phil Archer: Nods to recent Web payments Wworksho[p ←
09:36:06 <PhilA> ack ericstephan
ack ericstephan ←
09:36:21 <PhilA> ericstephan: Do we need a data on the web definition doc
Eric Stephan: Do we need a data on the web definition doc ←
09:36:38 <PhilA> ... in the CSVW WG we found ourselves in the predicament of defining tabular data - surprisingly
... in the CSVW WG we found ourselves in the predicament of defining tabular data - surprisingly ←
09:36:56 <PhilA> ... in science we're always pushing at the edge of the definition
... in science we're always pushing at the edge of the definition ←
09:37:09 <PhilA> ... so maybe we need a separate definition doc to define that
... so maybe we need a separate definition doc to define that ←
09:37:11 <PhilA> ack antoine
ack antoine ←
09:37:28 <PhilA> antoine: OP/Data I agree that we should try to ignore it for now. Maybe consider it later
Antoine Isaac: OP/Data I agree that we should try to ignore it for now. Maybe consider it later ←
09:37:36 <CarlosIglesias> q+
Carlos Iglesias: q+ ←
09:37:41 <PhilA> ... and then see what others have done
... and then see what others have done ←
09:37:56 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←
09:38:04 <PhilA> ... as for data on the Web... it's up to us to make it better, not say that your council's PDF is bad
... as for data on the Web... it's up to us to make it better, not say that your council's PDF is bad ←
09:38:49 <PhilA> antoine: You started with data vs data on the Web - but in our rec we should make sure that some of the work applies earlier in the process
Antoine Isaac: You started with data vs data on the Web - but in our rec we should make sure that some of the work applies earlier in the process ←
09:39:10 <PhilA> ... if we want them to be implemted properly, X needs to be done before it makes it to the Web
... if we want them to be implemted properly, X needs to be done before it makes it to the Web ←
09:39:47 <PhilA> Steve: I think there's way to do this. The charter preserves scope but gives us a limit to where we can go. i.e. not reinventing data dictionaries for mainframes
Steven Adler: I think there's way to do this. The charter preserves scope but gives us a limit to where we can go. i.e. not reinventing data dictionaries for mainframes ←
09:39:57 <PhilA> ... but we can say what we expect to find in data and metadata on the Web
... but we can say what we expect to find in data and metadata on the Web ←
09:40:02 <PhilA> ... we expect lineage, names etc.
... we expect lineage, names etc. ←
09:41:06 <PhilA> PhilA: We can recommend methods for doing that
Phil Archer: We can recommend methods for doing that ←
09:41:09 <PhilA> ack yaso
ack yaso ←
09:41:16 <BernadetteLoscio> q-
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q- ←
09:41:31 <Zakim> -gatemezi
Zakim IRC Bot: -gatemezi ←
09:41:37 <PhilA> yaso: I want to highlight the definition of open data. I don't want to discuss those now
Yaso Córdova: I want to highlight the definition of open data. I don't want to discuss those now ←
09:41:43 <yaso> http://opendefinition.org/
Yaso Córdova: http://opendefinition.org/ ←
09:41:46 <PhilA> ... it's another reason for me to forget about OD for now
... it's another reason for me to forget about OD for now ←
09:42:08 <PhilA> ... we don't want to discuss licences?
... we don't want to discuss licences? ←
09:42:19 <PhilA> Steve: Some of our use cases are open data oriented?
Steven Adler: Some of our use cases are open data oriented? ←
09:42:30 <PhilA> yaso: I want some use cases on closed data
Yaso Córdova: I want some use cases on closed data ←
09:42:52 <deirdrelee> q+
Deirdre Lee: q+ ←
09:42:56 <PhilA> Steve: You want the WG to cover non-open data? Copyrighted data?
Steven Adler: You want the WG to cover non-open data? Copyrighted data? ←
09:43:06 <Ig_Bittencourt> q+
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q+ ←
09:43:14 <ericstephan> Agreed Steve to not covering copyrighted or closed data
Eric Stephan: Agreed Steve to not covering copyrighted or closed data ←
09:43:15 <PhilA> yaso: There are many licences that offer less than opnness
Yaso Córdova: There are many licences that offer less than opnness ←
09:43:20 <HadleyBeeman> q+ to ask about the technical differences between open and closed (closed licenced) data
Hadley Beeman: q+ to ask about the technical differences between open and closed (closed licenced) data ←
09:43:26 <PhilA> RickRobinson: Is your point that there are issues that are technical?
Rick Robinson: Is your point that there are issues that are technical? ←
09:43:26 <JohnGoodwin> q+
John Goodwin: q+ ←
09:43:39 <BrianMatthews> +q
Brian Matthews: +q ←
09:43:40 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←
09:43:49 <PhilA> RickRobinson: and these are separate from open data in a legal or financial issues?
Rick Robinson: and these are separate from open data in a legal or financial issues? ←
09:43:51 <PhilA> yaso: Yes
Yaso Córdova: Yes ←
09:44:13 <PhilA> yaso: I can collect data from my car and put it on the Web, say with a CC licence
Yaso Córdova: I can collect data from my car and put it on the Web, say with a CC licence ←
09:44:25 <PhilA> ... maybe CC-NC
... maybe CC-NC ←
09:44:31 <PhilA> ack markharrison
ack markharrison ←
09:44:32 <HadleyBeeman> ack mark
Hadley Beeman: ack mark ←
09:44:58 <PhilA> markharrison: Going back to what Steve was saying, I'm not sure we need to differenitate between open/closed, dumps.
Mark Harrison: Going back to what Steve was saying, I'm not sure we need to differenitate between open/closed, dumps. ←
09:45:03 <PhilA> ... what about liability issues?
... what about liability issues? ←
09:45:32 <PhilA> ... there's new EU food labelling obligations saying that it must be available online and the same as found on the packaging
... there's new EU food labelling obligations saying that it must be available online and the same as found on the packaging ←
09:45:50 <PhilA> ... the retailer may want to reuse/reference that data in their own site , and there can be apps that reuse it
... the retailer may want to reuse/reference that data in their own site , and there can be apps that reuse it ←
09:46:07 <PhilA> ... so we need to think about licences, yes, but also liability, up to date
... so we need to think about licences, yes, but also liability, up to date ←
09:46:11 <PhilA> ack CarlosIglesias
ack CarlosIglesias ←
09:46:36 <PhilA> CarlosIglesias: On open/other - I tend to agree that from the tech perspective that's not important
Carlos Iglesias: On open/other - I tend to agree that from the tech perspective that's not important ←
09:46:52 <PhilA> ... we also have the linked/non-LD approaches
... we also have the linked/non-LD approaches ←
09:46:58 <PhilA> ... most of us work with LOD
... most of us work with LOD ←
09:47:08 <PhilA> ... but it's not only about technology
... but it's not only about technology ←
09:47:25 <PhilA> ... most of us are familiar with the underlying principles
... most of us are familiar with the underlying principles ←
09:47:40 <PhilA> ... we often ttalk about data not following 5 Star paradigm
... we often ttalk about data not following 5 Star paradigm ←
09:48:11 <PhilA> ->http://5stardata.info/ In case anyone here is unfamiliar with the 5 stars of open data
->http://5stardata.info/ In case anyone here is unfamiliar with the 5 stars of open data ←
09:48:30 <PhilA> CarlosIglesias: There are some basic principles that we all agree on? Licences etc?
Carlos Iglesias: There are some basic principles that we all agree on? Licences etc? ←
09:48:54 <PhilA> ... we are already not focusssing on non-tech issues
... we are already not focusssing on non-tech issues ←
09:49:55 <PhilA> CarlosIglesias: We are already talking about all these points, open government principles, bring value to open data
Carlos Iglesias: We are already talking about all these points, open government principles, bring value to open data ←
09:50:00 <deirdrelee> q-
Deirdre Lee: q- ←
09:50:03 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
09:50:20 <JohnGoodwin> q-
John Goodwin: q- ←
09:50:48 <CarlosIglesias> http://www.w3.org/TR/gov-data/
Carlos Iglesias: http://www.w3.org/TR/gov-data/ ←
09:50:57 <CarlosIglesias> https://public.resource.org/8_principles.html
Carlos Iglesias: https://public.resource.org/8_principles.html ←
09:50:58 <ericstephan> To me if data is not following 5 star, it is not in scope of this group that means not even meeting the 1 star criteria. How could it be data on the web then?
Eric Stephan: To me if data is not following 5 star, it is not in scope of this group that means not even meeting the 1 star criteria. How could it be data on the web then? ←
09:51:47 <PhilA> Steve: Tells story about Long Beach defibrillator.
Steven Adler: Tells story about Long Beach defibrillator. ←
09:52:04 <PhilA> ... ideas was to publish data on where these things are around the city
... ideas was to publish data on where these things are around the city ←
09:52:23 <PhilA> ... what happens if the data is wrong because it was used and not put back
... what happens if the data is wrong because it was used and not put back ←
09:52:36 <PhilA> ... need to have indemnity
... need to have indemnity ←
09:52:59 <PhilA> ... we can't stipulate that, but we can't offer advice on legal areas
... we can't stipulate that, but we can't offer advice on legal areas ←
09:53:14 <PhilA> Steve: So I think we can be aware of these issues
Steven Adler: So I think we can be aware of these issues ←
09:53:17 <yaso> q+
Yaso Córdova: q+ ←
09:53:39 <MakxDekkers> lost my conection. Now conference bridge does not allow dial-in: this conference is restricted at this time
Makx Dekkers: lost my conection. Now conference bridge does not allow dial-in: this conference is restricted at this time ←
09:53:47 <HadleyBeeman> ack ig
Hadley Beeman: ack ig ←
09:54:13 <PhilA> Ig_Bittencourt: I think we should ignore the open/non-open distinction
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: I think we should ignore the open/non-open distinction ←
09:54:24 <PhilA> ... it's not important for us as such
... it's not important for us as such ←
09:54:26 <HadleyBeeman> oh dear, makxdekkers. We'll try to sort it in 2 or 3 minutes
Hadley Beeman: oh dear, makxdekkers. We'll try to sort it in 2 or 3 minutes ←
09:54:27 <PhilA> ack HadleyBeeman
ack HadleyBeeman ←
09:54:27 <Zakim> HadleyBeeman, you wanted to ask about the technical differences between open and closed (closed licenced) data
Zakim IRC Bot: HadleyBeeman, you wanted to ask about the technical differences between open and closed (closed licenced) data ←
09:54:42 <PhilA> zakim, code?
zakim, code? ←
09:54:42 <Zakim> the conference code is 3927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA ←
09:54:51 <PhilA> zakim, room for 4?
zakim, room for 4? ←
09:54:52 <Zakim> ok, PhilA; conference Team_(dwbp)09:54Z scheduled with code 3927 (DWBP) for 60 minutes until 1054Z
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA; conference Team_(dwbp)09:54Z scheduled with code 3927 (DWBP) for 60 minutes until 1054Z ←
09:55:20 <MakxDekkers> I am back on hangout with sound
Makx Dekkers: I am back on hangout with sound ←
09:55:25 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I keep trying to work out what is tech and can be written and what is out of our scope
Hadley Beeman: I keep trying to work out what is tech and can be written and what is out of our scope ←
09:55:56 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: We can provide the mechanism through which people can describe how accurate/reliable their data is
Hadley Beeman: We can provide the mechanism through which people can describe how accurate/reliable their data is ←
09:56:02 <PhilA> ... what they say is out of our ken
... what they say is out of our ken ←
09:56:05 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
09:56:07 <PhilA> ack BrianMatthews
ack BrianMatthews ←
09:56:21 <PhilA> BrianMatthews: I also wanted to reiterate that open data might be a red herring
Brian Matthews: I also wanted to reiterate that open data might be a red herring ←
09:56:34 <PhilA> ... from the science perspective, the data might be free but it's not necessarily open
... from the science perspective, the data might be free but it's not necessarily open ←
09:56:49 <PhilA> ... sometimes specific people/groups are able to read the data
... sometimes specific people/groups are able to read the data ←
09:57:04 <PhilA> ... doesn't matter about that here - it's delivered by Web protocols
... doesn't matter about that here - it's delivered by Web protocols ←
09:57:29 <PhilA> ... as for whether we should have stars etc. We should look for best practices that help take people forward
... as for whether we should have stars etc. We should look for best practices that help take people forward ←
09:57:31 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1 BrianMatthews proposal
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 BrianMatthews proposal ←
09:57:37 <PhilA> ack BernadetteLoscio
ack BernadetteLoscio ←
09:58:09 <PhilA> BernadetteLoscio: I think we're talking about data which can be unstructured, structured. I don't think we're concerned about non-structured data
Bernadette Farias Loscio: I think we're talking about data which can be unstructured, structured. I don't think we're concerned about non-structured data ←
09:58:49 <PhilA> BernadetteLoscio: Structured data maybe a relational data, Excel etc. Non-structured can be anything such as text
Bernadette Farias Loscio: Structured data maybe a relational data, Excel etc. Non-structured can be anything such as text ←
09:58:55 <PhilA> q+
q+ ←
09:59:29 <PhilA> BernadetteLoscio: When we start to think about this we come back to some of the principles of open data
Bernadette Farias Loscio: When we start to think about this we come back to some of the principles of open data ←
09:59:39 <CarlosIglesias> q+ to talk more about structured vs. unstructured data
Carlos Iglesias: q+ to talk more about structured vs. unstructured data ←
10:00:30 <Vagner_Br> +1 to support the idea of having principles
Vagner Diniz: +1 to support the idea of having principles ←
10:00:51 <PhilA> BernadetteLoscio: Maybe we should think about principles for data on the web which may not be the same as principles of open data
Bernadette Farias Loscio: Maybe we should think about principles for data on the web which may not be the same as principles of open data ←
10:01:00 <newton> q?
Newton Calegari: q? ←
10:01:05 <PhilA> scribe: Ig_Bittencourt
(Scribe set to Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto)
10:01:19 <Vagner_Br> q+
Vagner Diniz: q+ ←
10:01:50 <yaso> q-
Yaso Córdova: q- ←
10:02:05 <HadleyBeeman> ack phila
Hadley Beeman: ack phila ←
10:02:07 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ack PhilA
ack PhilA ←
10:02:41 <Ig_Bittencourt_> PhilA: Does everybody know what 5 start data are?
Phil Archer: Does everybody know what 5 start data are? ←
10:02:41 <PhilA> -> http://5stardata.info/ 5 star LOD
Phil Archer: -> http://5stardata.info/ 5 star LOD ←
10:02:49 <laufer> q+
Carlos Laufer: q+ ←
10:03:08 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... the difference we might have to change
... the difference we might have to change ←
10:03:21 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... first of all about open and close
... first of all about open and close ←
10:03:41 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... there is another 5 start which is useful is
... there is another 5 start which is useful is ←
10:03:45 <PhilA> Tim Davies 5 stars of data engagement http://www.timdavies.org.uk/2012/01/21/5-stars-of-open-data-engagement/
Phil Archer: Tim Davies 5 stars of data engagement http://www.timdavies.org.uk/2012/01/21/5-stars-of-open-data-engagement/ ←
10:04:06 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... not just about use the data but feedback
... not just about use the data but feedback ←
10:04:18 <Ig_Bittencourt_> and these are other 5 start that could be useful
and these are other 5 start that could be useful ←
10:04:37 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
10:04:37 <ericstephan> Available on coffee mug! :-) http://www.cafepress.com/mf/45953815/five-star-linked-data_mugs?productId=480759174
Eric Stephan: Available on coffee mug! :-) http://www.cafepress.com/mf/45953815/five-star-linked-data_mugs?productId=480759174 ←
10:04:38 <Ig_Bittencourt_> q?
q? ←
10:04:53 <HadleyBeeman> spot on, ericstephan!
Hadley Beeman: spot on, ericstephan! ←
10:05:08 <markharrison> http://www.opendataimpacts.net/engagement/
Mark Harrison: http://www.opendataimpacts.net/engagement/ ←
10:05:19 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ack CarlosIglesias
ack CarlosIglesias ←
10:05:19 <Zakim> CarlosIglesias, you wanted to talk more about structured vs. unstructured data
Zakim IRC Bot: CarlosIglesias, you wanted to talk more about structured vs. unstructured data ←
10:05:35 <Ig_Bittencourt_> CarlosIglesias: I would like to get back about the format
Carlos Iglesias: I would like to get back about the format ←
10:05:47 <yaso> Antoine: This is the original from TimBL? http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html
Antoine Isaac: This is the original from TimBL? http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html [ Scribe Assist by Yaso Córdova ] ←
10:05:57 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... a PDF already could be data on the web
... a PDF already could be data on the web ←
10:06:25 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... PDF structured or non-structure data depends how you publish it
... PDF structured or non-structure data depends how you publish it ←
10:06:42 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... it is not about how the data is, but how to use it
... it is not about how the data is, but how to use it ←
10:06:56 <PhilA> -> http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html The original LOD definitions from TimBL
Phil Archer: -> http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html The original LOD definitions from TimBL ←
10:07:18 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... my point here is not to discuss philosophical points
... my point here is not to discuss philosophical points ←
10:07:36 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... but we need some definition and background definition
... but we need some definition and background definition ←
10:07:42 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... to build the best practices
... to build the best practices ←
10:08:00 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
10:08:06 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... every one has a difference understanding about data
... every one has a difference understanding about data ←
10:08:09 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ack Vagner_Br
ack Vagner_Br ←
10:08:22 <Ig_Bittencourt_> Vagner_Br: I want to go back about deirdrelee presented
Vagner Diniz: I want to go back about deirdrelee presented ←
10:08:32 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... i would like to understand more about the methodology
... i would like to understand more about the methodology ←
10:08:40 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... about challenges
... about challenges ←
10:08:50 <Ig_Bittencourt_> .. when we are talking about challenges
.. when we are talking about challenges ←
10:09:13 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... we want to reach some certain points
... we want to reach some certain points ←
10:09:27 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... i would like to support the idea about define basic principles
... i would like to support the idea about define basic principles ←
10:10:03 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... if we define any challenge without a basic reference or common definitions could be bad
... if we define any challenge without a basic reference or common definitions could be bad ←
10:10:18 <PhilA> -> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhTZf3B9yQ3odGVvU3pBazFsY3pyUVppNDFSZGtyQkE&usp=sharing&richtext=true#gid=2 Challenges
Phil Archer: -> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhTZf3B9yQ3odGVvU3pBazFsY3pyUVppNDFSZGtyQkE&usp=sharing&richtext=true#gid=2 Challenges ←
10:10:20 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... for instance, interoperability, data granurality
... for instance, interoperability, data granurality ←
10:10:32 <PhilA> RRSAgent, draft minutes
Phil Archer: RRSAgent, draft minutes ←
10:10:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA ←
10:10:40 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... another example is like privacy
... another example is like privacy ←
10:10:53 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... what are the basics about privacy
... what are the basics about privacy ←
10:11:01 <Ig_Bittencourt_> in order to define the challenges
in order to define the challenges ←
10:11:09 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... even licenses
... even licenses ←
10:11:26 <PhilA> acl laufer
Phil Archer: acl laufer ←
10:11:27 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ack laufer
ack laufer ←
10:11:36 <Ig_Bittencourt_> laufer: i think we have some issues here
Carlos Laufer: i think we have some issues here ←
10:11:39 <CarlosIglesias> q+ to suggest another approach on challenges and/or best practices
Carlos Iglesias: q+ to suggest another approach on challenges and/or best practices ←
10:11:43 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... that are the formats of the data
... that are the formats of the data ←
10:11:49 <Ig_Bittencourt_> .. we can have some information on a PDF
.. we can have some information on a PDF ←
10:11:57 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... or in a CSV
... or in a CSV ←
10:12:12 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... but we are talking about the conteent and if it is relevant or not
... but we are talking about the conteent and if it is relevant or not ←
10:12:37 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... it is valuable if the data is not structured
... it is valuable if the data is not structured ←
10:12:46 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... but if it is relevant.
... but if it is relevant. ←
10:13:13 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... we can have the CSV
... we can have the CSV ←
10:13:31 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... if we have a recommendation bout pdf we can achieve
... if we have a recommendation bout pdf we can achieve ←
10:13:59 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... so I think that is not related to the format
... so I think that is not related to the format ←
10:14:17 <ericstephan> just a few thoughts...I think we need to discuss data on the web, not data near the web, but when it is on the web, what are the best practices?
Eric Stephan: just a few thoughts...I think we need to discuss data on the web, not data near the web, but when it is on the web, what are the best practices? ←
10:14:22 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... if a human can extract the information, it does not matther
... if a human can extract the information, it does not matther ←
10:14:29 <PhilA> === 10 Minute Break ===
10:14:35 <Ig_Bittencourt_> HadleyBeeman: we have 10 minutes stop
Hadley Beeman: we have 10 minutes stop ←
10:14:35 <PhilA> RRSAgent, draft minutes
Phil Archer: RRSAgent, draft minutes ←
10:14:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA ←
10:35:24 <Ig_Bittencourt_> HadleyBeeman: welcome back
(No events recorded for 20 minutes)
Hadley Beeman: welcome back ←
10:35:27 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
Phil Archer: zakim, who is here? ←
10:35:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see ericstephan, Steve
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ericstephan, Steve ←
10:35:29 <Zakim> Steve has HadleyBeeman
Zakim IRC Bot: Steve has HadleyBeeman ←
10:35:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see fkyanai, yaso, newton_, Ig_Bittencourt_, MakxDekkers, Caroline_, adrianov, BernadetteLoscio, antoine, raphael, laufer, HadleyBeeman, BrianMatthews, markharrison,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see fkyanai, yaso, newton_, Ig_Bittencourt_, MakxDekkers, Caroline_, adrianov, BernadetteLoscio, antoine, raphael, laufer, HadleyBeeman, BrianMatthews, markharrison, ←
10:35:29 <Zakim> ... Vagner_Br, deirdrelee, CarlosIglesias, JohnGoodwin, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ericstephan, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Vagner_Br, deirdrelee, CarlosIglesias, JohnGoodwin, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ericstephan, trackbot ←
10:35:34 <Ig_Bittencourt_> q?
q? ←
10:35:52 <ericstephan> I am drinking espresso
Eric Stephan: I am drinking espresso ←
10:35:54 <PhilA> zakim, code?
Phil Archer: zakim, code? ←
10:35:55 <Zakim> the conference code is 3927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA ←
10:36:15 <ericstephan> 2.5 hours sleep and a full day ahead after this :-)
Eric Stephan: 2.5 hours sleep and a full day ahead after this :-) ←
10:36:38 <Ig_Bittencourt_> HadleyBeeman: useful discussion about the scope
Hadley Beeman: useful discussion about the scope ←
10:37:06 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... we could spend next days talking about what is useful
... we could spend next days talking about what is useful ←
10:37:13 <Ig_Bittencourt_> .. about what are the use cases
.. about what are the use cases ←
10:37:36 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... i would like to ask to the editors about the use cases and what is useful.
... i would like to ask to the editors about the use cases and what is useful. ←
10:37:58 <Ig_Bittencourt_> deirdrelee: points related to the scope
Deirdre Lee: points related to the scope ←
10:38:02 <Ig_Bittencourt_> ... but also about the methodology
... but also about the methodology ←
10:39:43 <PhilA> scribe: PhilA
(Scribe set to Phil Archer)
10:39:47 <PhilA> scribe: yaso
(Scribe set to Yaso Córdova)
10:40:06 <yaso> Ber looking in to the use cases, we tried to collect the main problems
Ber looking in to the use cases, we tried to collect the main problems ←
10:40:17 <yaso> Bernadette: looking in to the use cases, we tried to collect the main problems
Bernadette Farias Loscio: nadette: looking in to the use cases, we tried to collect the main problems ←
10:40:30 <Ig_Bittencourt> scribe: Ig_Bittencourt
(Scribe set to Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto)
10:40:31 <PhilA> q+
Phil Archer: q+ ←
10:40:37 <yaso> …what we need to have clear: what do we want from the use cases document?
Yaso Córdova: …what we need to have clear: what do we want from the use cases document? ←
10:40:40 <Vagner_Br> s/Ber/Bernadette:
10:40:41 <PhilA> zakim, open queue
Phil Archer: zakim, open queue ←
10:40:41 <Zakim> ok, PhilA, the speaker queue is open
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA, the speaker queue is open ←
10:40:46 <PhilA> q+
Phil Archer: q+ ←
10:40:57 <Ig_Bittencourt> BernadetteLoscio: we have to agree that the goal of the uc doc is about the potential BP
Bernadette Farias Loscio: we have to agree that the goal of the uc doc is about the potential BP ←
10:41:12 <yaso> … help to identify potencial best practices? What kind of infomation we can extract from the UC elements?
Yaso Córdova: … help to identify potencial best practices? What kind of infomation we can extract from the UC elements? ←
10:41:13 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. and them we can look and ask if the information we have is enough
.. and them we can look and ask if the information we have is enough ←
10:41:23 <yaso> … do we need something else?
Yaso Córdova: … do we need something else? ←
10:41:37 <yaso> …I think these are important questions fot us
Yaso Córdova: …I think these are important questions fot us ←
10:41:59 <Ig_Bittencourt> deirdrelee: what do we want the group to achieve...
Deirdre Lee: what do we want the group to achieve... ←
10:42:05 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... BP in terms of challenges
... BP in terms of challenges ←
10:42:14 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... it would based on different levels
... it would based on different levels ←
10:42:17 <yaso> deirdreelee: what do we want the group provide? These challenges are the core, but they can be based on use cases of different levels
Deirdre Lee: what do we want the group provide? These challenges are the core, but they can be based on use cases of different levels [ Scribe Assist by Yaso Córdova ] ←
10:42:40 <yaso> …the best practices can be focused on the moturity of the publisher
Yaso Córdova: …the best practices can be focused on the moturity of the publisher ←
10:42:40 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... the BP could be about different levels
... the BP could be about different levels ←
10:42:42 <markharrison> q+
Mark Harrison: q+ ←
10:43:05 <PhilT> q+
Phil Tetlow: q+ ←
10:43:10 <PhilA> q+ later
Phil Archer: q+ later ←
10:43:14 <PhilA> q-
Phil Archer: q- ←
10:43:19 <antoine> q+
Antoine Isaac: q+ ←
10:43:27 <Ig_Bittencourt> ack PhilA
ack PhilA ←
10:43:32 <Ig_Bittencourt> ack markharrison
ack markharrison ←
10:43:38 <yaso> scribe: ig_Bittencourt
10:43:48 <Ig_Bittencourt> markharrison: we have to thing not just about people publishing data on the web
Mark Harrison: we have to thing not just about people publishing data on the web ←
10:43:58 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... but also on both sides
... but also on both sides ←
10:43:59 <PhilA> ack PhilT
Phil Archer: ack PhilT ←
10:44:01 <HadleyBeeman> q+
Hadley Beeman: q+ ←
10:44:03 <CarlosIglesias> q+ on data publishing, consuming and the full data cycle of life
Carlos Iglesias: q+ on data publishing, consuming and the full data cycle of life ←
10:44:32 <Ig_Bittencourt> PhilA: for me it is more about preserving data on the web
Phil Archer: for me it is more about preserving data on the web ←
10:44:39 <PhilA> q+
Phil Archer: q+ ←
10:44:47 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... characteristics of the data
... characteristics of the data ←
10:45:16 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... my suggestion to the group is about information management
... my suggestion to the group is about information management ←
10:45:22 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... and information dissemination
... and information dissemination ←
10:45:28 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... and how to best take care of the data
... and how to best take care of the data ←
10:45:41 <ericstephan> +1 PhilA
Eric Stephan: +1 PhilA ←
10:45:45 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... if we look at the practice of generating data
... if we look at the practice of generating data ←
10:45:58 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... it is about the creation and structing of the data
... it is about the creation and structuring of the data ←
10:46:13 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. how do we make the reference correctly
.. how do we make the reference correctly ←
10:46:15 <ericstephan> I was +1 PhilA comment
Eric Stephan: I was +1 PhilT comment ←
10:46:17 <ericstephan> :-)
Eric Stephan: :-) ←
10:46:25 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. how do we now when it is not relevant anymore
.. how do we now when it is not relevant anymore ←
10:46:53 <PhilA> s/PhilA/PhilT
10:47:01 <PhilA> s/PhilA/PhilT
10:47:28 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... the reason could work on collecting data...
... the reason could work on collecting data... ←
10:47:33 <Ig_Bittencourt> ack antoine
ack antoine ←
10:47:47 <Ig_Bittencourt> antoine: there is an agenda about life cycle
Antoine Isaac: there is an agenda about life cycle ←
10:48:04 <BrianMatthews> +1 PhilT
Brian Matthews: +1 PhilT ←
10:48:07 <PhilA> q-
Phil Archer: q- ←
10:48:15 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. we don't actually know about BP or requirements
.. we don't actually know about BP or requirements ←
10:48:31 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. I would hope that this end up in requirements
.. I would hope that this end up in requirements ←
10:48:31 <PhilA> +1 to antoine around the data lifecyle, which is also a +1 to PhilT
Phil Archer: +1 to antoine around the data lifecyle, which is also a +1 to PhilT ←
10:48:40 <yaso> +1 to this
Yaso Córdova: +1 to this ←
10:48:45 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... i would keed in challenges now.
... i would keed in challenges now. ←
10:49:00 <Ig_Bittencourt> ack HadleyBeeman
ack HadleyBeeman ←
10:49:04 <laufer> q+
Carlos Laufer: q+ ←
10:49:09 <Ig_Bittencourt> HadleyBeeman: how much do we do
Hadley Beeman: how much do we do ←
10:49:22 <MakxDekkers> +1 to antoine
Makx Dekkers: +1 to antoine ←
10:49:28 <Ig_Bittencourt> deirdrelee: I think it would be good to keep it open
Deirdre Lee: I think it would be good to keep it open ←
10:49:29 <PhilT> q+
Phil Tetlow: q+ ←
10:49:53 <Ig_Bittencourt> ack Vagner_Br
ack Vagner_Br ←
10:50:01 <Ig_Bittencourt> Vagner_Br: I also agree that we need to add more UC
Vagner Diniz: I also agree that we need to add more UC ←
10:50:16 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. if we want to publish BP
.. if we want to publish BP ←
10:50:21 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... we need more UC
... we need more UC ←
10:50:28 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... such as from Asia or Africa
... such as from Asia or Africa ←
10:50:30 <ericstephan> good point+
Eric Stephan: good point+ ←
10:51:39 <Ig_Bittencourt> deirdrelee: we need the foundations of BP
Deirdre Lee: we need the foundations of BP ←
10:52:03 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... perhaps we could start about 5 stars
... perhaps we could start about 5 stars ←
10:52:05 <PhilA> q+ to suggest a DWBP Primer?
Phil Archer: q+ to suggest a DWBP Primer? ←
10:52:18 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... the more stars you have the more you have BP
... the more stars you have the more you have BP ←
10:52:34 <Ig_Bittencourt> HadleyBeeman: it is about the maturity of the data.
Hadley Beeman: it is about the maturity of the data. ←
10:53:03 <Ig_Bittencourt> BernadetteLoscio: It also if a beginner wants to publish data on the web
Bernadette Farias Loscio: It also if a beginner wants to publish data on the web ←
10:53:16 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
10:53:18 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... he would like to publish data on the web based on the BP
... he would like to publish data on the web based on the BP ←
10:53:32 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... so he could be interested on data integration
... so he could be interested on data integration ←
10:54:04 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... for example, I small stratup publishing data on the web and could not be interested on advanced points.
... for example, A small stratup publishing data on the web and could not be interested on advanced points. ←
10:54:26 <Ig_Bittencourt> deirdrelee: meybe the BP could be to try to encourage easy way about data on the web
Deirdre Lee: meybe the BP could be to try to encourage easy way about data on the web ←
10:54:32 <Ig_Bittencourt> BernadetteLoscio: It depends on the scenario
Bernadette Farias Loscio: It depends on the scenario ←
10:54:35 <markharrison> q+
Mark Harrison: q+ ←
10:54:40 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. if you want to publish a dataset
.. if you want to publish a dataset ←
10:54:42 <newton_> s/I small/A small
10:54:55 <ericstephan> For beginners are there "core" best practices that could be recommended? Interesting Deirdrelee
Eric Stephan: For beginners are there "core" best practices that could be recommended? Interesting Deirdrelee ←
10:55:05 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... and i think it is more about the problems when you have lot of projects
... and i think it is more about the problems when you have lot of projects ←
10:55:13 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... you know how to solve some simple problems
... you know how to solve some simple problems ←
10:55:20 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... and you don't know how to solve big problems.
... and you don't know how to solve big problems. ←
10:55:22 <Ig_Bittencourt> ack CarlosIglesias
ack CarlosIglesias ←
10:55:22 <Zakim> CarlosIglesias, you wanted to comment on data publishing, consuming and the full data cycle of life
Zakim IRC Bot: CarlosIglesias, you wanted to comment on data publishing, consuming and the full data cycle of life ←
10:55:37 <Ig_Bittencourt> CarlosIglesias: I really like the way the discussion is moving
Carlos Iglesias: I really like the way the discussion is moving ←
10:55:46 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. from technical issues
.. from technical issues ←
10:55:52 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. about the preparation of the data
.. about the preparation of the data ←
10:56:04 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. I think that was my ambition about the BP group
.. I think that was my ambition about the BP group ←
10:56:13 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... and it is connected with my initial point
... and it is connected with my initial point ←
10:56:17 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. about guidance
.. about guidance ←
10:56:23 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
10:56:53 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. I think it is really important we agree about the scope
.. I think it is really important we agree about the scope ←
10:57:26 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... for example we don't have any uc about people demading data trying to reuse not from data publishing perspecctive
... for example we don't have any uc about people demading data trying to reuse not from data publishing perspecctive ←
10:57:56 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. it is the first think is about data publishing
.. it is the first think is about data publishing ←
10:58:03 <Ig_Bittencourt> I think we should be working on this
I think we should be working on this ←
10:58:13 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. licensing issues
.. licensing issues ←
10:58:27 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... we are technical group
... we are technical group ←
10:58:38 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. and there are other groups that can point about this
.. and there are other groups that can point about this ←
10:58:44 <Ig_Bittencourt> laufer: ack laufer
Carlos Laufer: ack laufer ←
10:58:47 <Ig_Bittencourt> ack laufer
ack laufer ←
10:59:06 <Ig_Bittencourt> laufer: I think we have to make recommendation about the distribution of data
Carlos Laufer: I think we have to make recommendation about the distribution of data ←
10:59:18 <Ig_Bittencourt> .. and we have to do recommendation about the way they link data
.. and we have to do recommendation about the way they link data ←
10:59:44 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... if the tools can make it easy to do
... if the tools can make it easy to do ←
10:59:59 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... so I think we can forbidden about publishing the data
... so I think we can forbidden about publishing the data ←
11:00:10 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... and we need to make recommendation about the nature of the data too
... and we need to make recommendation about the nature of the data too ←
11:00:23 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... another one is about the skeleton of the UC
... another one is about the skeleton of the UC ←
11:00:37 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... we could have a running example
... we could have a running example ←
11:00:50 <Vagner_Br> s/structing/structuring/
11:00:51 <Ig_Bittencourt> ... we have the skeleton and we don't have an example about the UC
... we have the skeleton and we don't have an example about the UC ←
11:00:59 <Ig_Bittencourt> ach PhilT
ach PhilT ←
11:01:03 <Ig_Bittencourt> ack PhilT
ack PhilT ←
11:01:15 <PhilA> scribe: yaso
(Scribe set to Yaso Córdova)
11:01:33 <Ig_Bittencourt> Thanks.
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: Thanks. ←
11:01:39 <yaso> ig_Bittencourt :-)
ig_Bittencourt :-) ←
11:01:49 <yaso> …Second one is Value
…Second one is Value ←
11:02:00 <yaso> ...You can get value proposition on the use cases
...You can get value proposition on the use cases ←
11:02:37 <yaso> … the 3rd one is: we have to construct credibility to this BP
… the 3rd one is: we have to construct credibility to this BP ←
11:03:10 <yaso> PhilA: there’s a lot of agreement in the group, this is positive.
Phil Archer: there’s a lot of agreement in the group, this is positive. ←
11:03:12 <HadleyBeeman> ack phila
Hadley Beeman: ack phila ←
11:03:12 <Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to suggest a DWBP Primer?
Zakim IRC Bot: PhilA, you wanted to suggest a DWBP Primer? ←
11:03:20 <yaso> …Bernadette’s lifecicle is really important
…Bernadette’s lifecicle is really important ←
11:03:34 <yaso> …the cicle arount it is really important
…the cicle arount it is really important ←
11:03:39 <ericstephan> +1 DWBP Primer
Eric Stephan: +1 DWBP Primer ←
11:04:00 <yaso> …we’re trying to get some use cases on the developer’s point of view
…we’re trying to get some use cases on the developer’s point of view ←
11:04:37 <HadleyBeeman> This is what PhilA is referring to: http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/
Hadley Beeman: This is what PhilA is referring to: http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/ ←
11:04:47 <yaso> PhilA: There’s a section on the Best practices document that says: this is how to get value..
Phil Archer: There’s a section on the Best practices document that says: this is how to get value.. ←
11:05:03 <yaso> …I think i’d rather see this in the Best Practices Document
…I think i’d rather see this in the Best Practices Document ←
11:05:13 <yaso> …so that’s kind of a beginner’s guide
…so that’s kind of a beginner’s guide ←
11:05:14 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
11:05:16 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1 about beginners guide
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 about beginners guide ←
11:05:20 <HadleyBeeman> ack mark
Hadley Beeman: ack mark ←
11:05:51 <PhilA> q+ to talk about ShEX etc
Phil Archer: q+ to talk about ShEX etc ←
11:06:16 <yaso> +1 to Markharrison
+1 to Markharrison ←
11:06:19 <HadleyBeeman> ack phil
Hadley Beeman: ack phil ←
11:06:19 <Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to talk about ShEX etc
Zakim IRC Bot: PhilA, you wanted to talk about ShEX etc ←
11:06:40 <yaso> PhilA: we’re not talking about testing
Phil Archer: we’re not talking about testing ←
11:07:32 <yaso> …it’s about the ability to say “for this tool, you must to include the title…”
…it’s about the ability to say “for this tool, you must to include the title…” ←
11:07:35 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA: New W3C working group coming on RDF validation.
Phil Archer: New W3C working group coming on RDF validation. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
11:07:51 <yaso> …this is going to be useful for us
…this is going to be useful for us ←
11:08:19 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
11:09:29 <HadleyBeeman> We are looking at this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhTZf3B9yQ3odGVvU3pBazFsY3pyUVppNDFSZGtyQkE&usp=sharing&richtext=true#gid=3
Hadley Beeman: We are looking at this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhTZf3B9yQ3odGVvU3pBazFsY3pyUVppNDFSZGtyQkE&usp=sharing&richtext=true#gid=3 ←
11:10:04 <ericstephan> loading very slow :-)
Eric Stephan: loading very slow :-) ←
11:10:40 <HadleyBeeman> Sorry, ericstephan — we're going to the document linked from the bottom of the Dimensions tab
Hadley Beeman: Sorry, ericstephan — we're going to the document linked from the bottom of the Dimensions tab ←
11:10:50 <ericstephan> okay thanks
Eric Stephan: okay thanks ←
11:10:52 <newton_> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13gakj4BzYcAMf1NCNIpXXpPwr35qkVwfKgGbsZ-fpHE/edit#slide=id.p
Newton Calegari: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13gakj4BzYcAMf1NCNIpXXpPwr35qkVwfKgGbsZ-fpHE/edit#slide=id.p ←
11:11:22 <newton_> Link to the slides
Newton Calegari: Link to the slides ←
11:12:38 <yaso> Bernadette: the description is there. We had a discussion about the mais steps or how can we organize the steps of publishing and using data on the web
Bernadette Farias Loscio: the description is there. We had a discussion about the mais steps or how can we organize the steps of publishing and using data on the web ←
11:12:54 <yaso> …we have 4 steps
…we have 4 steps ←
11:13:20 <yaso> …we can have more steps
…we can have more steps ←
11:13:26 <yaso> …if we need it
…if we need it ←
11:13:51 <PhilT> I would change "Data Usage" to "Data Application and Management"
Phil Tetlow: I would change "Data Usage" to "Data Application and Management" ←
11:13:54 <yaso> …we can have best practices for each step
…we can have best practices for each step ←
11:14:26 <Ig_Bittencourt> q+
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q+ ←
11:14:27 <yaso> …these steps are related to the challenges that we identified
…these steps are related to the challenges that we identified ←
11:14:36 <HadleyBeeman> q+ to ask about "data usage" as a term
Hadley Beeman: q+ to ask about "data usage" as a term ←
11:14:41 <yaso> …how we relate the challenges to each one of the steps
…how we relate the challenges to each one of the steps ←
11:14:51 <PhilA> q+
Phil Archer: q+ ←
11:15:26 <yaso> q+
q+ ←
11:16:41 <HadleyBeeman> ack ig
Hadley Beeman: ack ig ←
11:16:52 <yaso> ..we’re talking about this, so if you want to do something about this, use that BP.. Like a framework
..we’re talking about this, so if you want to do something about this, use that BP.. Like a framework ←
11:17:14 <yaso> Hadley: how the use cases fit your spiral
Hadley Beeman: how the use cases fit your spiral ←
11:17:19 <CarlosIglesias> q?
Carlos Iglesias: q? ←
11:17:36 <yaso> HadleyBeeman: my question is more about “Data Usage"
Hadley Beeman: my question is more about “Data Usage" ←
11:17:48 <BrianMatthews> q+
Brian Matthews: q+ ←
11:17:50 <CarlosIglesias> q+ to talk about a similar model he has been applying in OD projects
Carlos Iglesias: q+ to talk about a similar model he has been applying in OD projects ←
11:17:54 <yaso> …is there any difference between data usage and dara reuse?
…is there any difference between data usage and dara reuse? ←
11:18:31 <yaso> PhilT: reuse is a pottencial not an action
Phil Tetlow: reuse is a pottencial not an action ←
11:18:41 <Vagner_Br> q+
Vagner Diniz: q+ ←
11:18:46 <yaso> …in software engineering the term “use” is a verb
…in software engineering the term “use” is a verb ←
11:18:55 <HadleyBeeman> ack me
Hadley Beeman: ack me ←
11:18:55 <Zakim> HadleyBeeman, you wanted to ask about "data usage" as a term
Zakim IRC Bot: HadleyBeeman, you wanted to ask about "data usage" as a term ←
11:19:03 <yaso> …and the term “Reuse” is a potencial so it’s a property, not a verb
…and the term “Reuse” is a potencial so it’s a property, not a verb ←
11:19:21 <yaso> PhilA: my understanding is about the source of the data
Phil Archer: my understanding is about the source of the data ←
11:19:51 <yaso> q?
q? ←
11:20:08 <PhilA> ack me
Phil Archer: ack me ←
11:21:08 <yaso> PhilA: how that we know that we included everything?
Phil Archer: how that we know that we included everything? ←
11:21:23 <yaso> PhilA: somewhere in this feedback it should say: it
Phil Archer: somewhere in this feedback it should say: it ←
11:22:00 <yaso> PhilA: having metrics for the value of this
Phil Archer: having metrics for the value of this ←
11:22:15 <yaso> Bernadette: I’m not sure if everything is there
Bernadette Farias Loscio: I’m not sure if everything is there ←
11:22:25 <yaso> PhilA: how do we know that we’ve got enought?
Phil Archer: how do we know that we’ve got enought? ←
11:22:33 <yaso> Bernadette: maybe this is a draft
Bernadette Farias Loscio: maybe this is a draft ←
11:22:51 <yaso> …maybe we need a methodology for our work
…maybe we need a methodology for our work ←
11:23:07 <yaso> …I’m not sure if this would be a problem
…I’m not sure if this would be a problem ←
11:23:08 <PhilA> q?
Phil Archer: q? ←
11:23:33 <antoine> for the recor, philT's 3 points: invariance, value, measurement
Antoine Isaac: for the record, philT's 3 points: invariance, value, measurement ←
11:23:34 <yaso> PhilT: for me that slide represents a data lifecicle
Phil Tetlow: for me that slide represents a data lifecicle ←
11:23:47 <yaso> tks antoine
tks antoine ←
11:24:05 <Vagner_Br> s/recor/record/
11:24:44 <HadleyBeeman> Yaso: About the data usage problem: we have to worry about the provider of the data and the people using the data.
Yaso Córdova: About the data usage problem: we have to worry about the provider of the data and the people using the data. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
11:24:52 <HadleyBeeman> … They are not necessarily the same people.
Hadley Beeman: … They are not necessarily the same people. ←
11:24:58 <PhilA> Here are some graphics of life cycles... https://www.google.com/search?q=lod2+data+lifecycle&client=opera&hs=S0b&channel=suggest&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=RFA5U_blL8boywOouoHoDg&ved=0CGQQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=577
Phil Archer: Here are some graphics of life cycles... https://www.google.com/search?q=lod2+data+lifecycle&client=opera&hs=S0b&channel=suggest&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=RFA5U_blL8boywOouoHoDg&ved=0CGQQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=577 ←
11:25:07 <ericstephan> +1 Yaso
Eric Stephan: +1 Yaso ←
11:25:10 <HadleyBeeman> … We have to find a place in this lifecycle to differentiate the two personas.
Hadley Beeman: … We have to find a place in this lifecycle to differentiate the two personas. ←
11:25:31 <markharrison> +1 Yaso
Mark Harrison: +1 Yaso ←
11:25:34 <HadleyBeeman> … We have already referenced work in the Linked Data working group about lifecycles of data. Michael Hausenblas did it, if I remember correctly.
Hadley Beeman: … We have already referenced work in the Linked Data working group about lifecycles of data. Michael Hausenblas did it, if I remember correctly. ←
11:25:39 <deirdrelee> q+
Deirdre Lee: q+ ←
11:25:43 <HadleyBeeman> ack yaso
Hadley Beeman: ack yaso ←
11:25:47 <ericstephan> Many times consumers are not considered from the producers perspective.
Eric Stephan: Many times consumers are not considered from the producers perspective. ←
11:25:48 <yaso> PhilT: we shoul look http://www.slideshare.net/mediasemanticweb/linked-data-life-cycles
Phil Tetlow: we shoul look http://www.slideshare.net/mediasemanticweb/linked-data-life-cycles ←
11:25:51 <yaso> http://www.slideshare.net/mediasemanticweb/linked-data-life-cycles
http://www.slideshare.net/mediasemanticweb/linked-data-life-cycles ←
11:25:58 <antoine> philT: we need to refrrence other lifdcycle definitions. it s a matrr of reputation for the group
Phil Tetlow: we need to refrrence other lifecycle definitions. it s a matrr of reputation for the group [ Scribe Assist by Antoine Isaac ] ←
11:26:30 <HadleyBeeman> Yaso: The linked data lifecycle isn't the same but there are many intersections for us.
Yaso Córdova: The linked data lifecycle isn't the same but there are many intersections for us. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
11:26:41 <antoine> s/lifdcycle/lifecycle
11:26:45 <PhilA> -> GLD Best Practices http://www.w3.org/TR/ld-bp/
Phil Archer: -> GLD Best Practices http://www.w3.org/TR/ld-bp/ ←
11:26:52 <HadleyBeeman> ack brian
Hadley Beeman: ack brian ←
11:27:20 <ericstephan> losing sound?
Eric Stephan: losing sound? ←
11:27:26 <yaso> CarlosIglesias: I would add more about sources
Carlos Iglesias: I would add more about sources ←
11:27:35 <CarlosIglesias> Just one Open Data lifecycle more http://www.slideshare.net/carlosiglesiasmoro/estrategias-open-government-data (in Spanish, but happy to elaborate on this if needed)
Carlos Iglesias: Just one Open Data lifecycle more http://www.slideshare.net/carlosiglesiasmoro/estrategias-open-government-data (in Spanish, but happy to elaborate on this if needed) ←
11:27:51 <yaso> Bernadette: this is about the use cases that we have now
Bernadette Farias Loscio: this is about the use cases that we have now ←
11:28:07 <PhilA> -> http://demo.lod2.eu/lod2demo The LOD2 Data Life Cycle
Phil Archer: -> http://demo.lod2.eu/lod2demo The LOD2 Data Life Cycle ←
11:28:19 <PhilA> zakim, who is noisy?
Phil Archer: zakim, who is noisy? ←
11:28:19 <Zakim> I am sorry, PhilA; I don't have the necessary resources to track talkers right now
Zakim IRC Bot: I am sorry, PhilA; I don't have the necessary resources to track talkers right now ←
11:28:22 <ericstephan> Yes thank you
Eric Stephan: Yes thank you ←
11:28:43 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
11:28:47 <yaso> Deirdrellee: maybe it’s just a way of thinking about it
Deirdre Lee: maybe it’s just a way of thinking about it ←
11:29:08 <yaso> Bernadette: this is just a draft, we have to work on it
Bernadette Farias Loscio: this is just a draft, we have to work on it ←
11:29:13 <HadleyBeeman> ack carlos
Hadley Beeman: ack carlos ←
11:29:13 <Zakim> CarlosIglesias, you wanted to talk about a similar model he has been applying in OD projects
Zakim IRC Bot: CarlosIglesias, you wanted to talk about a similar model he has been applying in OD projects ←
11:29:30 <yaso> CarlosIglesias: I really like the model, because we’re building on that is similar
Carlos Iglesias: I really like the model, because we’re building on that is similar ←
11:29:46 <deirdrelee> There are a lot of 'data use' use-cases as well as data publication use-cases
Deirdre Lee: There are a lot of 'data use' use-cases as well as data publication use-cases ←
11:30:06 <yaso> …the main differences is that we are working on indicators, an actions depending on the indicators
…the main differences is that we are working on indicators, an actions depending on the indicators ←
11:30:14 <deirdrelee> use-cases can cover multiple stages of the data life-cycle
Deirdre Lee: use-cases can cover multiple stages of the data life-cycle ←
11:30:30 <yaso> …also, we are talking about licencing
…also, we are talking about licencing ←
11:30:56 <yaso> …what are the current licence issues within data usage
…what are the current licence issues within data usage ←
11:31:36 <yaso> …I miss a lot of things in data reuse, because we have to thin on data engagement on 5 stars
…I miss a lot of things in data reuse, because we have to thin on data engagement on 5 stars ←
11:31:55 <yaso> … I really like the IBM ??
… I really like the IBM http: ←
11:32:03 <CarlosIglesias> http://www.businessofgovernment.org/report/designing-open-projects-lessons-internet-pioneers
Carlos Iglesias: http://www.businessofgovernment.org/report/designing-open-projects-lessons-internet-pioneers ←
11:32:07 <HadleyBeeman> ack vagner
Hadley Beeman: ack vagner ←
11:32:29 <yaso> s/??/http://www.businessofgovernment.org/report/designing-open-projects-lessons-internet-pioneers
11:33:11 <yaso> Vagner_br: I can see that interoperability, I can see in this lifecicle here, we should think about other elements like updating data
Vagner Diniz: I can see that interoperability, I can see in this lifecicle here, we should think about other elements like updating data ←
11:33:44 <yaso> Bernadette: this are the main actions, and the lifecicle is based on it. We have 2 things: the elements and the process
Bernadette Farias Loscio: this are the main actions, and the lifecicle is based on it. We have 2 things: the elements and the process ←
11:33:45 <CarlosIglesias> Previous reference is on the role of openness and user engagement for the success of the Web and it can be applied also to data reuse
Carlos Iglesias: Previous reference is on the role of openness and user engagement for the success of the Web and it can be applied also to data reuse ←
11:34:09 <yaso> …for example: versioning it’s a process. Interoperability can be a principle
…for example: versioning it’s a process. Interoperability can be a principle ←
11:34:24 <yaso> ...Machine-readability it’s a principle
...Machine-readability it’s a principle ←
11:34:46 <PhilA> q?
Phil Archer: q? ←
11:34:50 <yaso> …I think there are different things: aspects, processes and ???
…I think there are different things: aspects, processes and ??? ←
11:35:10 <PhilA> q+ to suggest it may be possible to write a BP or two as we work on the UCR?
Phil Archer: q+ to suggest it may be possible to write a BP or two as we work on the UCR? ←
11:35:28 <yaso> …I call these dimensions. There is the aspects elements
…I call these dimensions. There is the aspects elements ←
11:35:31 <yaso> q?
q? ←
11:36:01 <yaso> Bernadette: I think we can divide in to principles and processes,
Bernadette Farias Loscio: I think we can divide in to principles and processes, ←
11:36:16 <yaso> …for example: traceability is a principle
…for example: traceability is a principle ←
11:36:34 <yaso> …data versioning… I’m not sure if this is a principle
…data versioning… I’m not sure if this is a principle ←
11:36:50 <yaso> …we have some aspects, or some elements that we have to look at
…we have some aspects, or some elements that we have to look at ←
11:36:56 <CarlosIglesias> q?
Carlos Iglesias: q? ←
11:37:04 <yaso> …we have problems, for example: heterogenity: it will be ther
…we have problems, for example: heterogenity: it will be there ←
11:37:12 <yaso> s/ther/there
11:37:21 <CarlosIglesias> q+ on the complexity of so much levels
Carlos Iglesias: q+ on the complexity of so much levels ←
11:37:57 <yaso> vagner_br: my question is about data collecting
Vagner Diniz: my question is about data collecting ←
11:38:30 <yaso> …should we now consider some other aspects, like the management aspects of how the data is available before we can collect them?
…should we now consider some other aspects, like the management aspects of how the data is available before we can collect them? ←
11:38:44 <yaso> …consider some ecossystem aspects
…consider some ecossystem aspects ←
11:39:02 <yaso> …because in this lifecycle we are considering that data is available
…because in this lifecycle we are considering that data is available ←
11:39:15 <yaso> …the government shoul consider legal aspects, for example
…the government shoul consider legal aspects, for example ←
11:39:30 <yaso> HadleyBeeman: it’s of the web
Hadley Beeman: it’s off the web ←
11:39:38 <HadleyBeeman> s/of/off
11:39:57 <yaso> q+
q+ ←
11:40:17 <HadleyBeeman> ack deirdre
Hadley Beeman: ack deirdre ←
11:40:24 <PhilT> q+
Phil Tetlow: q+ ←
11:40:32 <yaso> PhilA: these are issues that you have to consider, but these are legal aspects and W3C will not deal with it in this WG
Phil Archer: these are issues that you have to consider, but these are legal aspects and W3C will not deal with it in this WG ←
11:40:57 <CarlosIglesias> q-
Carlos Iglesias: q- ←
11:41:00 <yaso> deirdrelee: we have to go back to the use cases requirements, based on the life cicle
Deirdre Lee: we have to go back to the use cases requirements, based on the life cicle ←
11:41:28 <PhilA> q-
Phil Archer: q- ←
11:41:35 <Ig_Bittencourt> +1 deirdrelee proposal
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 deirdrelee proposal ←
11:41:35 <yaso> …do we need more use cases? Maybe we’re not in position to answer it now, but we can decide if we need more use cases if we look at the challenges
…do we need more use cases? Maybe we’re not in position to answer it now, but we can decide if we need more use cases if we look at the challenges ←
11:41:51 <HadleyBeeman> ack yaso
Hadley Beeman: ack yaso ←
11:42:16 <HadleyBeeman> yaso: Principle that fits in best practice for data collection are the problems of performance for REST APIs, for example.
Yaso Córdova: Principle that fits in best practice for data collection are the problems of performance for REST APIs, for example. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
11:43:03 <HadleyBeeman> … When we collect data, we have to think about how big this dataset will be. Data for four cars is one thing; data for billions of cars, using REST APIs — how will we do that? And how will it affect the performace of applications using this data?
Hadley Beeman: … When we collect data, we have to think about how big this dataset will be. Data for four cars is one thing; data for billions of cars, using REST APIs — how will we do that? And how will it affect the performace of applications using this data? ←
11:43:06 <PhilA> +1 to Yaso
Phil Archer: +1 to Yaso ←
11:43:24 <PhilA> (and +1 to Deirdre's plan too, hence I took myself off the queue)
Phil Archer: (and +1 to Deirdre's plan too, hence I took myself off the queue) ←
11:43:25 <HadleyBeeman> +1 to yaso
Hadley Beeman: +1 to yaso ←
11:43:28 <HadleyBeeman> ack philt
Hadley Beeman: ack philt ←
11:44:40 <yaso> PhilT: using use cases is generally a tool used to set up a scope
Phil Tetlow: using use cases is generally a tool used to set up a scope ←
11:44:41 <CarlosIglesias> +1 to Deirdre's plan and to Phil's plan of taking myself off the q for that
Carlos Iglesias: +1 to Deirdre's plan and to Phil's plan of taking myself off the q for that ←
11:44:42 <ericstephan> +1 to yaso,
Eric Stephan: +1 to yaso, ←
11:45:07 <yaso> PhilA: we have to look for properties
Phil Tetlow: we have to look for properties ←
11:45:17 <yaso> s/PhilA/PhilT
11:45:46 <yaso> …best practices should be aplied to all this range
…best practices should be aplied to all this range ←
11:46:06 <ericstephan> scale versus efficiency
Eric Stephan: scale versus efficiency ←
11:46:59 <PhilT> OSI Data management and interchange - http://www.iso.org/iso/home/store/catalogue_tc/catalogue_tc_browse.htm?commid=45342
Phil Tetlow: OSI Data management and interchange - http://www.iso.org/iso/home/store/catalogue_tc/catalogue_tc_browse.htm?commid=45342 ←
11:46:59 <PhilA> zakim, close queue
Phil Archer: zakim, close queue ←
11:46:59 <Zakim> ok, PhilA, the speaker queue is closed
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA, the speaker queue is closed ←
11:48:23 <CarlosIglesias> +1 for starting with group discussion on challenges
Carlos Iglesias: +1 for starting with group discussion on challenges ←
11:48:40 <PhilT> Organization for the Advancement of Structured Information Standards - https://www.oasis-open.org/
Phil Tetlow: Organization for the Advancement of Structured Information Standards - https://www.oasis-open.org/ ←
11:49:01 <PhilA> Topic: Dinner venue
11:49:08 <PhilA> -> https://www.jamieoliver.com/italian/covent-garden Jamie Oliver Italian
Phil Archer: -> https://www.jamieoliver.com/italian/covent-garden Jamie Oliver Italian ←
11:50:21 <PhilT> Other - perhaps useful URL's - http://www.usgs.gov/datamanagement/index.php
Phil Tetlow: Other - perhaps useful URL's - http://www.usgs.gov/datamanagement/index.php ←
11:51:59 <HadleyBeeman> Break for lunch — back for 14:00 BST
Hadley Beeman: Break for lunch — back for 14:00 BST ←
11:52:03 <PhilA> === LUNCH ===
11:52:14 <PhilA> rrsagent, draft minutes
Phil Archer: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
11:52:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA ←
11:52:32 <Zakim> -ericstephan
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericstephan ←
11:52:49 <Zakim> -Steve
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steve ←
11:52:50 <ericstephan> ok
Eric Stephan: ok ←
11:52:50 <Zakim> Team_(dwbp)08:20Z has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(dwbp)08:20Z has ended ←
11:52:50 <Zakim> Attendees were +44.207.202.aabb, ericstephan, Hadley, Yaso, PhilA, deirdrelee, BrianMatthews, Ig_Bittencourt, Antoine, MakxDekkers, +33.4.93.00.aacc, gatemezi, HadleyBeeman
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +44.207.202.aabb, ericstephan, Hadley, Yaso, PhilA, deirdrelee, BrianMatthews, Ig_Bittencourt, Antoine, MakxDekkers, +33.4.93.00.aacc, gatemezi, HadleyBeeman ←
11:53:31 <PhilT> Also perhaps - http://www.dama.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3364
Phil Tetlow: Also perhaps - http://www.dama.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3364 ←
12:25:53 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> : I am trying to get online on the conference bridge and google hangout but can't
(No events recorded for 32 minutes)
Joao Almeida: : I am trying to get online on the conference bridge and google hangout but can't ←
12:26:01 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> are you in session?
Joao Almeida: are you in session? ←
12:28:27 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> ok, I see you are probably breaking for lunch. Please let me know when the google hangout is back on!
Joao Almeida: ok, I see you are probably breaking for lunch. Please let me know when the google hangout is back on! ←
13:00:30 <PhilA> == Starting Again==
(No events recorded for 32 minutes)
13:00:42 <PhilA> zakim, who is on IRC?
Phil Archer: zakim, who is on IRC? ←
13:00:42 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, PhilA.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, PhilA. ←
13:00:49 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
Phil Archer: zakim, who is here? ←
13:00:49 <Zakim> apparently Team_(dwbp)08:20Z has ended, PhilA
Zakim IRC Bot: apparently Team_(dwbp)08:20Z has ended, PhilA ←
13:00:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see Ig_Bittencourt, fkyanai, adrianov, newton, gatemezi, JoaoPauloAlmeida, MakxDekkers, antoine, raphael, laufer, markharrison, JohnGoodwin, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Ig_Bittencourt, fkyanai, adrianov, newton, gatemezi, JoaoPauloAlmeida, MakxDekkers, antoine, raphael, laufer, markharrison, JohnGoodwin, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ←
13:00:51 <Zakim> ... ericstephan, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... ericstephan, trackbot ←
13:01:08 <PhilA> zakim, room for 4?
Phil Archer: zakim, room for 4? ←
13:01:09 <Zakim> ok, PhilA; conference Team_(dwbp)13:01Z scheduled with code 3927 (DWBP) for 60 minutes until 1401Z
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA; conference Team_(dwbp)13:01Z scheduled with code 3927 (DWBP) for 60 minutes until 1401Z ←
13:02:16 <Zakim> Team_(dwbp)13:01Z has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(dwbp)13:01Z has now started ←
13:02:23 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
13:02:28 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, ??P7 is me
Joao Almeida: Zakim, ??P7 is me ←
13:02:28 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it ←
13:02:54 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Hi, I see you are back from lunch :-)
Joao Almeida: Hi, I see you are back from lunch :-) ←
13:03:50 <Zakim> +gatemezi
Zakim IRC Bot: +gatemezi ←
13:04:17 <PhilA> zakim, code?
Phil Archer: zakim, code? ←
13:04:20 <Zakim> the conference code is 3927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA ←
13:04:53 <gatemezi> We are alone in the call with JoaoPauloAlmeida ?
Ghislain Atemezing: We are alone in the call with JoaoPauloAlmeida ? ←
13:04:55 <Zakim> +ericstephan
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericstephan ←
13:05:27 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> PhilA, are you dialing in so we can hear what's going on in the room?
Joao Almeida: PhilA, are you dialing in so we can hear what's going on in the room? ←
13:05:49 <markharrison> PhilA is dialling in
Mark Harrison: PhilA is dialling in ←
13:05:56 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> ok thanks
Joao Almeida: ok thanks ←
13:06:31 <ericstephan> I will have to leave the meeting early to attend a Force 11 Implementation telecon at I believe 4pm London time.
Eric Stephan: I will have to leave the meeting early to attend a Force 11 Implementation telecon at I believe 4pm London time. ←
13:06:34 <Zakim> +Steve
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steve ←
13:06:44 <deirdrelee> New google hangout for the afternoon: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014#Google_Hangout
Deirdre Lee: New google hangout for the afternoon: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014#Google_Hangout ←
13:08:01 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, mute me
Joao Almeida: Zakim, mute me ←
13:08:01 <Zakim> JoaoPauloAlmeida should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: JoaoPauloAlmeida should now be muted ←
13:08:36 <PhilA> scribe: Caroline_
(Scribe set to Caroline Burle)
13:08:51 <PhilA> topic: Challenges
13:09:09 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, who is here?
Hadley Beeman: zakim, who is here? ←
13:09:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see JoaoPauloAlmeida (muted), gatemezi, ericstephan, Steve
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see JoaoPauloAlmeida (muted), gatemezi, ericstephan, Steve ←
13:09:09 <PhilA> -> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhTZf3B9yQ3odGVvU3pBazFsY3pyUVppNDFSZGtyQkE&usp=sharing&richtext=true#gid=5 Looking at second sheet on the challenges
Phil Archer: -> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhTZf3B9yQ3odGVvU3pBazFsY3pyUVppNDFSZGtyQkE&usp=sharing&richtext=true#gid=5 Looking at second sheet on the challenges ←
13:09:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see BernadetteLoscio, HadleyBeeman, Vagner_Br, CarlosIglesias, deirdrelee, Caroline_, Ig_Bittencourt, fkyanai, adrianov, newton, gatemezi, JoaoPauloAlmeida, MakxDekkers,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see BernadetteLoscio, HadleyBeeman, Vagner_Br, CarlosIglesias, deirdrelee, Caroline_, Ig_Bittencourt, fkyanai, adrianov, newton, gatemezi, JoaoPauloAlmeida, MakxDekkers, ←
13:09:11 <Zakim> ... antoine, raphael, laufer, markharrison, JohnGoodwin, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ericstephan, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... antoine, raphael, laufer, markharrison, JohnGoodwin, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ericstephan, trackbot ←
13:09:37 <Caroline_> deirdrelee: we don't have to go into details on how to solve all the problems, it is more about the scope
Deirdre Lee: we don't have to go into details on how to solve all the problems, it is more about the scope ←
13:09:57 <Caroline_> ... regarding the challenges we can go through one by one
... regarding the challenges we can go through one by one ←
13:09:59 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, steve has bernadetteloscio, hadleybeeman, vagner_br, carlosiglesias, deirdrelee, Caroline_, Ig_Bittencourt, fkyanai, adrianov, newton, antoine, laufer, markharrison, JohnGoodwin, PhilA
Hadley Beeman: zakim, steve has bernadetteloscio, hadleybeeman, vagner_br, carlosiglesias, deirdrelee, Caroline_, Ig_Bittencourt, fkyanai, adrianov, newton, antoine, laufer, markharrison, JohnGoodwin, PhilA ←
13:10:20 <Zakim> +bernadetteloscio, hadleybeeman, vagner_br, carlosiglesias, deirdrelee, Caroline_, Ig_Bittencourt, fkyanai, adrianov, newton, antoine, laufer, markharrison, JohnGoodwin, PhilA; got
Zakim IRC Bot: +bernadetteloscio, hadleybeeman, vagner_br, carlosiglesias, deirdrelee, Caroline_, Ig_Bittencourt, fkyanai, adrianov, newton, antoine, laufer, markharrison, JohnGoodwin, PhilA; got ←
13:10:22 <Zakim> ... it
Zakim IRC Bot: ... it ←
13:10:22 <Caroline_> ... metadata
... metadata ←
13:10:37 <Caroline_> .... 1st challenge is on metadata
.... 1st challenge is on metadata ←
13:10:48 <Caroline_> ... do we need to put more details?
... do we need to put more details? ←
13:10:59 <PhilA> zakim, Steve has Rick, JohnG, Mark Harrison, Laufer, Vagner, Caroline, Ig, Bernadette, Newton, Flavio, PhilT, Adriano, Antoine, Carlos, Deirdre, Yaso, PhilA, Hadley, Jeremy Debattista
Phil Archer: zakim, Steve has Rick, JohnG, Mark Harrison, Laufer, Vagner, Caroline, Ig, Bernadette, Newton, Flavio, PhilT, Adriano, Antoine, Carlos, Deirdre, Yaso, PhilA, Hadley, Jeremy Debattista ←
13:10:59 <Zakim> laufer was already listed in Steve, PhilA
Zakim IRC Bot: laufer was already listed in Steve, PhilA ←
13:11:00 <Zakim> newton was already listed in Steve, PhilA
Zakim IRC Bot: newton was already listed in Steve, PhilA ←
13:11:00 <Zakim> antoine was already listed in Steve, PhilA
Zakim IRC Bot: antoine was already listed in Steve, PhilA ←
13:11:00 <Zakim> PhilA was already listed in Steve, PhilA
Zakim IRC Bot: PhilA was already listed in Steve, PhilA ←
13:11:00 <Zakim> +Rick, JohnG, Mark, Harrison, Vagner, Caroline, Ig, Bernadette, Flavio, PhilT, Adriano, Carlos, Deirdre, Yaso, Hadley, Jeremy, Debattista; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Rick, JohnG, Mark, Harrison, Vagner, Caroline, Ig, Bernadette, Flavio, PhilT, Adriano, Carlos, Deirdre, Yaso, Hadley, Jeremy, Debattista; got it ←
13:11:09 <PhilA> Guest: Jeremy Debattista
13:11:23 <JohnGoodwin> q+
John Goodwin: q+ ←
13:11:32 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, open queue
Hadley Beeman: zakim, open queue ←
13:11:32 <Zakim> ok, HadleyBeeman, the speaker queue is open
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, HadleyBeeman, the speaker queue is open ←
13:11:43 <HadleyBeeman> q+ johngoodwin
Hadley Beeman: q+ johngoodwin ←
13:11:56 <PhilA> -> https://certificates.theodi.org/ ODI Certificates
Phil Archer: -> https://certificates.theodi.org/ ODI Certificates ←
13:12:20 <Caroline_> Steve: When you publish the data some people are deciding what to publish, but none of these is documented
Steven Adler: When you publish the data some people are deciding what to publish, but none of these is documented ←
13:12:31 <PhilA> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/ The Provenance Ontology
Phil Archer: -> http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/ The Provenance Ontology ←
13:12:35 <Caroline_> ... Chicago decided to build its on metadata to describe its data
... Chicago decided to build its on metadata to describe its data ←
13:12:47 <Caroline_> ... NYC also did it
... NYC also did it ←
13:12:47 <PhilA> zakim, open queue
Phil Archer: zakim, open queue ←
13:12:47 <Zakim> ok, PhilA, the speaker queue is open
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA, the speaker queue is open ←
13:12:49 <HadleyBeeman> ack john
Hadley Beeman: ack john ←
13:12:55 <laufer> q+
Carlos Laufer: q+ ←
13:13:26 <PhilA> q+ to pick up INSPIRE use case
Phil Archer: q+ to pick up INSPIRE use case ←
13:14:17 <JohnGoodwin> I just asked about the metadata work discussed here could/should, for example, fit in with other initiatives like INSPIRE
John Goodwin: I just asked about the metadata work discussed here could/should, for example, fit in with other initiatives like INSPIRE ←
13:14:20 <Caroline_> Laufer: I think we have 2 issues: metadata is not standarized and if it is machine readable
Carlos Laufer: I think we have 2 issues: metadata is not standarized and if it is machine readable ←
13:14:30 <Caroline_> ... we will decide the format of the metadata?
... we will decide the format of the metadata? ←
13:14:36 <markharrison> http://inspire-geoportal.ec.europa.eu/
Mark Harrison: http://inspire-geoportal.ec.europa.eu/ ←
13:14:46 <Caroline_> Hadley: do we want to take all metadata or some kinds of metadata?
Hadley Beeman: do we want to take all metadata or some kinds of metadata? ←
13:14:47 <HadleyBeeman> ack laufer
Hadley Beeman: ack laufer ←
13:14:49 <PhilA> ack me
Phil Archer: ack me ←
13:14:49 <Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to pick up INSPIRE use case
Zakim IRC Bot: PhilA, you wanted to pick up INSPIRE use case ←
13:15:23 <Caroline_> PhilA: data shoujld be machine readable and also could be human readable
Phil Archer: data shoujld be machine readable and also could be human readable ←
13:15:26 <CarlosIglesias> q+ on metadata to add it should be unambiguous defined
Carlos Iglesias: q+ on metadata to add it should be unambiguous defined ←
13:16:07 <gatemezi> s/shojld/should
Ghislain Atemezing: s/shojld/should (warning: replacement failed) ←
13:16:09 <adler1> +q
Steven Adler: +q ←
13:16:10 <Caroline_> ... if we are talking about a data tool to describe data catalogues, this group would decide for dcat
... if we are talking about a data tool to describe data catalogues, this group would decide for dcat ←
13:16:45 <Caroline_> ... best practices includes to describe metadata, it includes data vocab
... best practices includes to describe metadata, it includes data vocab ←
13:16:58 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
13:17:16 <HadleyBeeman> ack carlos
Hadley Beeman: ack carlos ←
13:17:17 <Zakim> CarlosIglesias, you wanted to comment on metadata to add it should be unambiguous defined
Zakim IRC Bot: CarlosIglesias, you wanted to comment on metadata to add it should be unambiguous defined ←
13:17:21 <Caroline_> ... you might have general cases and some others with 8%... etc. How do you handle that
... you might have general cases and some others with 80%... etc. How do you handle that ←
13:17:37 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←
13:17:37 <HadleyBeeman> s/8%/80%
13:17:50 <Vagner_Br> q+
Vagner Diniz: q+ ←
13:17:53 <HadleyBeeman> ack adler
Hadley Beeman: ack adler ←
13:17:59 <PhilA> q+ to mention something I though of earlier around BP doc
Phil Archer: q+ to mention something I though of earlier around BP doc ←
13:18:01 <Caroline_> CarlosIglesias: 1. an agreement on standarized metadata, 2. a good description of metadata, 3. a machnie readable format on metadata
Carlos Iglesias: 1. an agreement on standarized metadata, 2. a good description of metadata, 3. a machnie readable format on metadata ←
13:18:14 <Caroline_> Steve: can we define a metadata vocab that is agnostic?
Steven Adler: can we define a metadata vocab that is agnostic? ←
13:18:24 <Caroline_> ... can we provide use cases examples?
... can we provide use cases examples? ←
13:18:37 <Caroline_> ... use cases that could use different tools
... use cases that could use different tools ←
13:18:39 <HadleyBeeman> ack bern
Hadley Beeman: ack bern ←
13:18:58 <laufer> q+
Carlos Laufer: q+ ←
13:19:02 <Caroline_> BernadetteLoscio: asks CarlosIglesias what is the difference between medatada and vocab
Bernadette Farias Loscio: asks CarlosIglesias what is the difference between medatada and vocab ←
13:19:15 <Caroline_> ... for example: if we describe information about hospitals
... for example: if we describe information about hospitals ←
13:19:27 <Caroline_> CarlosIglesias: dcat is vocab about metadata
Carlos Iglesias: dcat is vocab about metadata ←
13:19:39 <Caroline_> ... you may have lots of different vocabs
... you may have lots of different vocabs ←
13:19:55 <Caroline_> ... there is a specific domain which is metadata, and then you have many other domains
... there is a specific domain which is metadata, and then you have many other domains ←
13:20:05 <Caroline_> ... geographic domains for example
... geographic domains for example ←
13:20:13 <Caroline_> ... metadata is just a particular use of a given vocab
... metadata is just a particular use of a given vocab ←
13:20:32 <Caroline_> BernadetteLoscio: metadata can be used to describe a data catalog
Bernadette Farias Loscio: metadata can be used to describe a data catalog ←
13:20:46 <Caroline_> ... if you are going to describe a csv file would you consider that a matadata?
... if you are going to describe a csv file would you consider that a matadata? ←
13:21:04 <ericstephan> +q
Eric Stephan: +q ←
13:21:06 <Caroline_> CarlosIglesias: the data is what you have inside of the scv file
Carlos Iglesias: the data is what you have inside of the scv file ←
13:21:14 <Caroline_> ... from my perspective they are metadata
... from my perspective they are metadata ←
13:21:34 <Caroline_> BernadetteLoscio: we have different leves of metadata, that is why I think we should have an agreement on that
Bernadette Farias Loscio: we have different leves of metadata, that is why I think we should have an agreement on that ←
13:21:44 <Caroline_> ... we can use vocabs to describe metadatas
... we can use vocabs to describe metadatas ←
13:21:58 <Caroline_> ... to describe specific domains it is not the idea
... to describe specific domains it is not the idea ←
13:22:18 <HadleyBeeman> q+
Hadley Beeman: q+ ←
13:22:23 <Caroline_> ... defining vocabs would be interesting to understanding what kind of metadata
... defining vocabs would be interesting to understanding what kind of metadata ←
13:22:35 <Caroline_> PhilA: we should talk with the CSV WG
Phil Archer: we should talk with the CSV WG ←
13:22:38 <HadleyBeeman> q+ to talk about how we choose our vocabularies: grounding in the problems
Hadley Beeman: q+ to talk about how we choose our vocabularies: grounding in the problems ←
13:22:58 <ericstephan> PhilA +1
Eric Stephan: PhilA +1 ←
13:23:00 <Caroline_> Vagner_Br: are we saying that metadata should be standarized and readable machine format?
Vagner Diniz: are we saying that metadata should be standarized and readable machine format? ←
13:23:18 <adler1> q+
Steven Adler: q+ ←
13:23:28 <Caroline_> ... are we saying that any kind of metadata standard is part of our scope or should we have at least a minimum to consider that?
... are we saying that any kind of metadata standard is part of our scope or should we have at least a minimum to consider that? ←
13:23:30 <ericstephan> I think there should be a joint telecon at some point PhilA
Eric Stephan: I think there should be a joint telecon at some point PhilA ←
13:23:48 <HadleyBeeman> to ericstephan phila: we can definitely make that happen
Hadley Beeman: to ericstephan phila: we can definitely make that happen ←
13:24:07 <Caroline_> deirdrelee: it is a challenge according to the use cases. Now we are discussing if this should be adopted by the wg
Deirdre Lee: it is a challenge according to the use cases. Now we are discussing if this should be adopted by the wg ←
13:24:36 <HadleyBeeman> ack vagner
Hadley Beeman: ack vagner ←
13:24:38 <Caroline_> ... maybe the metadata should be generic, but should have an specific domain. That is what we should discuss with the challenges
... maybe the metadata should be generic, but should have an specific domain. That is what we should discuss with the challenges ←
13:24:50 <PhilA> ack me
Phil Archer: ack me ←
13:24:50 <Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to mention something I though of earlier around BP doc
Zakim IRC Bot: PhilA, you wanted to mention something I though of earlier around BP doc ←
13:24:54 <Caroline_> ... what is the requirment? What part of this challenges we whant to address
... what is the requirment? What part of this challenges we whant to address ←
13:24:56 <HadleyBeeman> ack phila
Hadley Beeman: ack phila ←
13:24:57 <PhilT> q+
Phil Tetlow: q+ ←
13:25:20 <Caroline_> PhilA: I wonder if it might be helpful to start writing best pracatices.
Phil Archer: I wonder if it might be helpful to start writing best pracatices. ←
13:25:28 <gatemezi> I guess a metadata in UML is out of our scope.. but yes, if it is in CSV , it could be ok for us...
Ghislain Atemezing: I guess a metadata in UML is out of our scope.. but yes, if it is in CSV , it could be ok for us... ←
13:25:44 <Caroline_> ... if we know which are the best practices we want to write we might start writing them
... if we know which are the best practices we want to write we might start writing them ←
13:26:01 <Caroline_> ... metadata should be available in different formates. E.g. Json
... metadata should be available in different formates. E.g. Json ←
13:26:20 <Caroline_> ... we might find people who have implemented before we get to the end of the process
... we might find people who have implemented before we get to the end of the process ←
13:26:27 <Caroline_> ... we must see the reality
... we must see the reality ←
13:26:28 <HadleyBeeman> ack laufer
Hadley Beeman: ack laufer ←
13:26:40 <Caroline_> laufer: I am thinking about the granularity
Carlos Laufer: I am thinking about the granularity ←
13:26:53 <Caroline_> .... we have collections, catalogues, datasets, resources
.... we have collections, catalogues, datasets, resources ←
13:27:06 <Caroline_> ... how can I identify the resources and put semantic on them
... how can I identify the resources and put semantic on them ←
13:27:31 <Caroline_> ... how do you describe resources
... how do you describe resources ←
13:27:36 <yaso> Hi nathalia
Yaso Córdova: Hi nathalia ←
13:27:38 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1 to laufer's point
Joao Almeida: +1 to laufer's point ←
13:27:42 <nathalia> hello
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: hello ←
13:27:51 <Caroline_> ... we need a metadata to describe these things
... we need a metadata to describe these things ←
13:28:07 <nathalia> the sound is not good here
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: the sound is not good here ←
13:28:16 <PhilA> +1 to Laufer, but I know Eric is about to talk about this point
Phil Archer: +1 to Laufer, but I know Eric is about to talk about this point ←
13:28:19 <Caroline_> ... if csv wants to describe this kind of metadata, it is a kind of transformation from scv file to another file
... if csv wants to describe this kind of metadata, it is a kind of transformation from scv file to another file ←
13:28:40 <Caroline_> ... if I have xml file I have another kind of metadata to transform
... if I have xml file I have another kind of metadata to transform ←
13:28:43 <gatemezi> q+
Ghislain Atemezing: q+ ←
13:28:46 <PhilA> ack ericstephan
Phil Archer: ack ericstephan ←
13:28:46 <Caroline_> ... How do we describe things?
... How do we describe things? ←
13:28:57 <HadleyBeeman> ack eric
Hadley Beeman: ack eric ←
13:29:08 <nathalia> tks Caroline
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: tks Caroline ←
13:29:15 <nathalia> I'm at Hangout
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: I'm at Hangout ←
13:29:18 <Ig_Bittencourt> q+
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q+ ←
13:29:19 <CarlosIglesias> q+ to add from Laufer's comments a new bp: provide always a way to automatically associate data and metadata
Carlos Iglesias: q+ to add from Laufer's comments a new bp: provide always a way to automatically associate data and metadata ←
13:29:22 <Caroline_> ericstephan: I agree that the csv wg will be very helpful with some of the discussions
Eric Stephan: I agree that the csv wg will be very helpful with some of the discussions ←
13:29:44 <Caroline_> ... metadata is mentioned into the use cases and became very important
... metadata is mentioned into the use cases and became very important ←
13:29:49 <PhilA> -> http://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/3758 Outputs from CSVW WG
Phil Archer: -> http://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/3758 Outputs from CSVW WG ←
13:30:08 <Caroline_> ... the second point is from my point of view vocab is a data model
... the second point is from my point of view vocab is a data model ←
13:30:13 <Caroline_> ... as a tec agnostic
... as a tec agnostic ←
13:30:21 <Caroline_> ... terms, relationships and definitions
... terms, relationships and definitions ←
13:30:25 <laufer> +1
Carlos Laufer: +1 ←
13:30:29 <PhilA> I always start vocabs that way
Phil Archer: I always start vocabs that way ←
13:30:36 <CarlosIglesias> +1 to data models as the central point
Carlos Iglesias: +1 to data models as the central point ←
13:30:43 <Caroline_> HadleyBeeman: does anyone has comments about data models and vocabs?
Hadley Beeman: does anyone has comments about data models and vocabs? ←
13:30:58 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
13:31:31 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> what we are calling vocabularies are data models with some level of sophistication
Joao Almeida: what we are calling vocabularies are data models with some level of sophistication ←
13:32:11 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> this is not all a "vocabulary" could be, but seems to be the prevalent meaning of the term as it is being used
Joao Almeida: this is not all a "vocabulary" could be, but seems to be the prevalent meaning of the term as it is being used ←
13:32:36 <Caroline_> Steve: we have a mandate to create data quality, comparability and vocab
Steven Adler: we have a mandate to create data quality, comparability and vocab ←
13:32:39 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> ... in w3c setting
Joao Almeida: ... in w3c setting ←
13:32:42 <PhilA> The two vocabs are data quality and data usage, not comparability
Phil Archer: The two vocabs are data quality and data usage, not comparability ←
13:32:49 <Caroline_> ... also to define what we expect
... also to define what we expect ←
13:33:01 <PhilA> q+ to talk about provenance
Phil Archer: q+ to talk about provenance ←
13:33:08 <markharrison> i.e. provenance metadata?
Mark Harrison: i.e. provenance metadata? ←
13:33:21 <Caroline_> ... I think we can do that in an open standard way so anybody can use any tec they want to
... I think we can do that in an open standard way so anybody can use any tec they want to ←
13:33:25 <PhilA> Steve: Talking about the vocabs we have to do. Quality and granularity etc.
Steven Adler: Talking about the vocabs we have to do. Quality and granularity etc. [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
13:33:42 <ericstephan> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-prov-dm-20130430/ PROV model
Eric Stephan: http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-prov-dm-20130430/ PROV model ←
13:33:45 <Caroline_> PhilA: the providence is very important
Phil Archer: the provenance is very important ←
13:33:52 <gatemezi> +1
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 ←
13:33:57 <Caroline_> ... it is a huge subject and we don't have to define it
... it is a huge subject and we don't have to define it ←
13:34:14 <Caroline_> ... it is stuff we can point to
... it is stuff we can point to ←
13:34:19 <PhilA> Provenance ontology is at http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/
Phil Archer: Provenance ontology is at http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/ ←
13:34:27 <PhilA> q-
Phil Archer: q- ←
13:34:38 <Caroline_> Steve: after publishing it might just be indicated the archive
Steven Adler: after publishing it might just be indicated the archive ←
13:34:46 <HadleyBeeman> ack me
Hadley Beeman: ack me ←
13:34:46 <Zakim> HadleyBeeman, you wanted to talk about how we choose our vocabularies: grounding in the problems
Zakim IRC Bot: HadleyBeeman, you wanted to talk about how we choose our vocabularies: grounding in the problems ←
13:34:52 <Caroline_> ... or having a metadata filled for that
... or having a metadata filled for that ←
13:34:57 <Caroline_> ... that might be enough
... that might be enough ←
13:35:02 <HadleyBeeman> ack adler
Hadley Beeman: ack adler ←
13:35:22 <deirdrelee> q+
Deirdre Lee: q+ ←
13:35:46 <Vagner_Br> s/providence/provenance/
13:36:03 <Caroline_> Steve: I keep bringing the open tec angle because when I talk with a city they say they are "only 4 guys" in the city and they don't have resources to study RDF, for e.g.
Steven Adler: I keep bringing the open tec angle because when I talk with a city they say they are "only 4 guys" in the city and they don't have resources to study RDF, for e.g. ←
13:36:20 <Caroline_> ... they don't have resources to do the perfect job, they just do what they can
... they don't have resources to do the perfect job, they just do what they can ←
13:36:27 <PhilA> q+ to answer Steve's RDF points
Phil Archer: q+ to answer Steve's RDF points ←
13:36:28 <Caroline_> ... rdf is a little academic
... rdf is a little academic ←
13:36:40 <Caroline_> ... the world we live people just do what they can
... the world we live people just do what they can ←
13:36:49 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
13:37:09 <Caroline_> ... I think we have a lot value to add and that is why I keep pushing to the group recommend what is useful
... I think we have a lot value to add and that is why I keep pushing to the group recommend what is useful ←
13:37:12 <PhilA> ack me
Phil Archer: ack me ←
13:37:12 <Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to answer Steve's RDF points
Zakim IRC Bot: PhilA, you wanted to answer Steve's RDF points ←
13:37:39 <Ig_Bittencourt> q-
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: q- ←
13:37:53 <Caroline_> PhilA: LA is a big city. Of course they don't know how to use RDF. But they can specify what they want
Phil Archer: LA is a big city. Of course they don't know how to use RDF. But they can specify what they want ←
13:38:25 <HadleyBeeman> philA: Because they are paying for a tool, they can specify how that tool works.
Phil Archer: Because they are paying for a tool, they can specify how that tool works. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
13:38:26 <Caroline_> ... we are not going to say things aren't best practices only because some people won't use them
... we are not going to say things aren't best practices only because some people won't use them ←
13:38:28 <markharrison> q+ also many companies need guidance on using (unfamiliar) Linked Data technologies - which tools?, which formats?, which vocabularies? how to verify whether they've done it right?
Mark Harrison: q+ also many companies need guidance on using (unfamiliar) Linked Data technologies - which tools?, which formats?, which vocabularies? how to verify whether they've done it right? ←
13:38:34 <Caroline_> ... they have to provide the metadata
... they have to provide the metadata ←
13:38:56 <Caroline_> ... we must point that on the best practices
... we must point that on the best practices ←
13:39:05 <Caroline_> ... it might have different formats
... it might have different formats ←
13:39:06 <markharrison> q+ to point out that also many companies need guidance on using (unfamiliar) Linked Data technologies - which tools?, which formats?, which vocabularies? how to verify whether they've done it right?
Mark Harrison: q+ to point out that also many companies need guidance on using (unfamiliar) Linked Data technologies - which tools?, which formats?, which vocabularies? how to verify whether they've done it right? ←
13:39:31 <Caroline_> laufer: any URI can be associated to a colum.
Carlos Laufer: any URI can be associated to a column. ←
13:39:39 <HadleyBeeman> s/colum/column
13:39:43 <Caroline_> ... you don't have to do it, but you may
... you don't have to do it, but you may ←
13:39:54 <Caroline_> ... they do it in Socrata
... they do it in Socrata ←
13:40:00 <HadleyBeeman> ack philt
Hadley Beeman: ack philt ←
13:40:01 <PhilA> ack philt
Phil Archer: ack philt ←
13:40:17 <Caroline_> PhilT: we should only not overlap the previous work
Phil Tetlow: we should only not overlap the previous work ←
13:40:18 <PhilA> ack gatemezi
Phil Archer: ack gatemezi ←
13:41:13 <PhilA> gatemezi: I wanted to agree on metadata - we have to help the publishers to make their metadata at least in 3 star data
Ghislain Atemezing: I wanted to agree on metadata - we have to help the publishers to make their metadata at least in 3 star data [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
13:41:30 <PhilA> ... I think 5 star is better of course but 3 star is a good start
Phil Archer: ... I think 5 star is better of course but 3 star is a good start ←
13:41:38 <PhilA> ... and we can refer to the CSVW
Phil Archer: ... and we can refer to the CSVW ←
13:41:48 <CarlosIglesias> q-
Carlos Iglesias: q- ←
13:41:48 <HadleyBeeman> ack carlos
Hadley Beeman: ack carlos ←
13:41:50 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> we need to keep in mind that we need to offer a gradual path
Joao Almeida: we need to keep in mind that we need to offer a gradual path ←
13:41:50 <gatemezi> q-
Ghislain Atemezing: q- ←
13:41:59 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> for implementers of the practices we recommend
Joao Almeida: for implementers of the practices we recommend ←
13:42:26 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> perhaps we can be explicit on "levels" of compliance? (are we aiming at "compliance" at all?
Joao Almeida: perhaps we can be explicit on "levels" of compliance? (are we aiming at "compliance" at all? ←
13:42:56 <Caroline_> CarlosIglesias: we should use metadata with data to make it machine readable
Carlos Iglesias: we should use metadata with data to make it machine readable ←
13:43:16 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> "machine readable" is too coarse a statement, we should be more specific in our communication
Joao Almeida: "machine readable" is too coarse a statement, we should be more specific in our communication ←
13:43:17 <Caroline_> ... it is important not only to provide but also to llok at the demand side
... it is important not only to provide but also to lock at the demand side ←
13:43:30 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> a stream of bytes is "machine readable"
Joao Almeida: a stream of bytes is "machine readable" ←
13:43:33 <Vagner_Br> s/llok/lock/
13:43:44 <adler1> q+
Steven Adler: q+ ←
13:43:47 <Caroline_> ... the good thing about all this is that both solutions can be done
... the good thing about all this is that both solutions can be done ←
13:43:53 <HadleyBeeman> ack deirdre
Hadley Beeman: ack deirdre ←
13:44:06 <Caroline_> deirdrelee: lets try to refocus every on and then!
Deirdre Lee: lets try to refocus every on and then! ←
13:44:15 <Caroline_> ... we spent 45min talking about one challenge
... we spent 45min talking about one challenge ←
13:44:36 <Caroline_> ... the other challenges on metadata are on metadata standards and how to bring them together
... the other challenges on metadata are on metadata standards and how to bring them together ←
13:44:46 <Caroline_> ... how often and regulary the data is publish
... how often and regularly the data is publish ←
13:44:58 <Caroline_> ... there are different challenges related with metadata
... there are different challenges related with metadata ←
13:45:34 <Caroline_> ... we are missing: are not available on machine readable format
... we are missing: are not available on machine readable format ←
13:45:46 <Caroline_> ... we need agnostic models, not only RDF
... we need agnostic models, not only RDF ←
13:45:59 <Caroline_> ... what are the actual requirements on metadata?
... what are the actual requirements on metadata? ←
13:46:57 <Vagner_Br> s/regulary/regularly/
13:47:12 <Caroline_> PhilA: would you find useful for each of these things to be treated of an issue?
Phil Archer: would you find useful for each of these things to be treated of an issue? ←
13:47:27 <Caroline_> deirdrelee: I think we could talk all together
Deirdre Lee: I think we could talk all together ←
13:47:35 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
13:48:02 <Caroline_> ... metadata should be machine readable. Would taht be enough for a requirement?
... metadata should be machine readable. Would taht be enough for a requirement? ←
13:48:05 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> in my opinion that is not enough
Joao Almeida: in my opinion that is not enough ←
13:48:10 <yaso> q+
Yaso Córdova: q+ ←
13:48:16 <Caroline_> HadleyBeeman: we might have to define machine readable at some point
Hadley Beeman: we might have to define machine readable at some point ←
13:48:23 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> again, a stream of bytes is machine readable (?)
Joao Almeida: again, a stream of bytes is machine readable (?) ←
13:48:26 <PhilA> PROPOSED: Include a requirement that metadata should be machine readable
PROPOSED: Include a requirement that metadata should be machine readable ←
13:48:37 <Caroline_> CarlosIglesias: you can have notes on literature describing it
Carlos Iglesias: you can have notes on literature describing it ←
13:49:16 <Caroline_> ... maybe we should be careful to use the official meanings of these terms
... maybe we should be careful to use the official meanings of these terms ←
13:49:20 <PhilA> RRSAgent, draft minutes
Phil Archer: RRSAgent, draft minutes ←
13:49:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA ←
13:49:35 <yaso> +1
Yaso Córdova: +1 ←
13:49:38 <gatemezi> PhilA: could you add both human and machine readable ?
Phil Archer: could you add both human and machine readable ? [ Scribe Assist by Ghislain Atemezing ] ←
13:49:38 <Caroline_> +1
+1 ←
13:49:39 <adler1> +1
Steven Adler: +1 ←
13:49:41 <Ig_Bittencourt_> +1
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 ←
13:49:43 <JohnGoodwin> +1
John Goodwin: +1 ←
13:49:44 <Vagner_Br> +1
Vagner Diniz: +1 ←
13:49:44 <markharrison> +1
Mark Harrison: +1 ←
13:49:45 <ericstephan> +1
Eric Stephan: +1 ←
13:49:47 <PhilA> +1
Phil Archer: +1 ←
13:49:52 <BernadetteLoscio> +1
Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←
13:49:54 <adrianov> +1
Adriano Veloso: +1 ←
13:49:56 <fkyanai> +1
Flavio Yanai: +1 ←
13:49:56 <jeremy> +1
Jeremy Debattista: +1 ←
13:49:59 <MakxDekkers> +1
Makx Dekkers: +1 ←
13:50:00 <CarlosIglesias> +1
Carlos Iglesias: +1 ←
13:50:02 <gatemezi> +1
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 ←
13:50:04 <newton> +1
Newton Calegari: +1 ←
13:50:08 <laufer> +1
Carlos Laufer: +1 ←
13:50:08 <PhilA> Resolved: Include a requirement that metadata should be machine readable
RESOLVED: Include a requirement that metadata should be machine readable ←
13:50:25 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> thanks for reading my comment :-)
Joao Almeida: thanks for reading my comment :-) ←
13:50:37 <Caroline_> HadleyBeeman: I would suggest that human readable is a separate discussion
Hadley Beeman: I would suggest that human readable is a separate discussion ←
13:50:54 <yaso> JoaoPauloAlmeida what about “browser-readable”? hehe
Yaso Córdova: JoaoPauloAlmeida what about “browser-readable”? hehe ←
13:51:06 <Caroline_> Steve: we don't yet see streaming data as part of open data
Steven Adler: we don't yet see streaming data as part of open data ←
13:51:10 <Caroline_> ... but it might become
... but it might become ←
13:51:21 <Caroline_> ... as telephone crossing might become also
... as telephone crossing might become also ←
13:51:25 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
13:51:32 <Vagner_Br> As far as I am understanding the definition of machine readable format is a separate discussion
Vagner Diniz: As far as I am understanding the definition of machine readable format is a separate discussion ←
13:51:45 <Caroline_> ... use case example: we are measuring the trafiic, polution, all kind of things
... use case example: we are measuring the trafiic, polution, all kind of things ←
13:51:51 <Caroline_> ... these data can become open data
... these data can become open data ←
13:51:55 <fkyanai> I agree with Vagner_BR
Flavio Yanai: I agree with Vagner_BR ←
13:52:08 <Caroline_> ... there should be metadata that came from there
... there should be metadata that came from there ←
13:52:17 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> but if we say is myst be machine readable, and we don't agree on what machine readable means then what we say seems vacuous
Joao Almeida: but if we say is must be machine readable, and we don't agree on what machine readable means then what we say seems vacuous ←
13:52:24 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> s/myst/must/
13:52:33 <Caroline_> HadleyBeeman: are we asking if anyone else that creates metadata should make it machine readable
Hadley Beeman: are we asking if anyone else that creates metadata should make it machine readable ←
13:52:46 <PhilA> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/ssnx/ssn Semantic Sensor Network Ontology, *may* be standardised in near-future WG
Phil Archer: -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/ssnx/ssn Semantic Sensor Network Ontology, *may* be standardised in near-future WG ←
13:52:49 <Caroline_> PhilT: the best practices should add value in all use cases
Phil Tetlow: the best practices should add value in all use cases ←
13:52:58 <Caroline_> ... can you mesaure the impact of best practices
... can you mesaure the impact of best practices ←
13:53:11 <Caroline_> ... in case of all them should be machine readable?
... in case of all them should be machine readable? ←
13:53:27 <Caroline_> ... there might have use cases that data are not machine readable
... there might have use cases that data are not machine readable ←
13:53:37 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> machine readable just means not in natural language? have a minimum level of structuring?
Joao Almeida: machine readable just means not in natural language? have a minimum level of structuring? ←
13:53:46 <Caroline_> ... we could understand that it could be regonized with any open standard
... we could understand that it could be regonized with any open standard ←
13:54:12 <Caroline_> Steve: we often talked about the data we get from NYC are .pdfs
Steven Adler: we often talked about the data we get from NYC are .pdfs ←
13:54:17 <PhilA> On streaming - XSLT 3 includes transformations for streaming data see http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt-30/ for more
Phil Archer: On streaming - XSLT 3 includes transformations for streaming data see http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt-30/ for more ←
13:54:33 <Caroline_> ... we have to build new type of ??? that can understand metadata
... we have to build new type of ??? that can understand metadata ←
13:54:39 <Caroline_> PhilA: stop using pdf
Phil Archer: stop using pdf ←
13:55:19 <gatemezi> PhilA: that's one of our bp message... ;)
Phil Archer: that's one of our bp message... ;) [ Scribe Assist by Ghislain Atemezing ] ←
13:55:23 <Caroline_> PhilT: if you follow this example. Some organization will publish information with pdf. You could use internal standards to read the document with metadata
Phil Tetlow: if you follow this example. Some organization will publish information with pdf. You could use internal standards to read the document with metadata ←
13:55:34 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
13:55:39 <PhilA> q+ on PDFs
Phil Archer: q+ on PDFs ←
13:55:47 <Caroline_> Steve: I guess the question is: does the metadata follow the document or the repository follows it?
Steven Adler: I guess the question is: does the metadata follow the document or the repository follows it? ←
13:56:06 <PhilA> ack markharrison
Phil Archer: ack markharrison ←
13:56:06 <Zakim> markharrison, you wanted to point out that also many companies need guidance on using (unfamiliar) Linked Data technologies - which tools?, which formats?, which vocabularies? how
Zakim IRC Bot: markharrison, you wanted to point out that also many companies need guidance on using (unfamiliar) Linked Data technologies - which tools?, which formats?, which vocabularies? how ←
13:56:09 <Zakim> ... to verify whether they've done it right?
Zakim IRC Bot: ... to verify whether they've done it right? ←
13:56:19 <Caroline_> HadleyBeeman: or can we say that because the data is on the web it does matter what format is inside or we should consider metadata
Hadley Beeman: or can we say that because the data is on the web it does matter what format is inside or we should consider metadata ←
13:56:51 <deirdrelee> q+
Deirdre Lee: q+ ←
13:56:51 <Caroline_> markharrison: wheter to put the metadata inline or rpovide it as a block
Mark Harrison: wheter to put the metadata inline or rpovide it as a block ←
13:57:04 <Caroline_> ... sometimes doing inline makes it more difficult
... sometimes doing inline makes it more difficult ←
13:57:15 <PhilA> q- adler1
Phil Archer: q- adler1 ←
13:57:15 <laufer> +1 mark
Carlos Laufer: +1 mark ←
13:57:21 <HadleyBeeman> ack yaso
Hadley Beeman: ack yaso ←
13:57:27 <PhilA> q- adler1
Phil Archer: q- adler1 ←
13:57:29 <Caroline_> yaso: I just want to make a question
Yaso Córdova: I just want to make a question ←
13:57:32 <PhilA> ack adler1
Phil Archer: ack adler1 ←
13:57:43 <Caroline_> ... a requirement that each resource has its metadata to be data on the web
... a requirement that each resource has its metadata to be data on the web ←
13:57:45 <PhilA> q- adler
Phil Archer: q- adler ←
13:58:10 <Caroline_> ... I understand that is to naif, but can we say: having metada is a requirement?
... I understand that is to naif, but can we say: having metada is a requirement? ←
13:58:30 <Caroline_> ... if you publish a pdf should you make medatada about this content?
... if you publish a pdf should you make medatada about this content? ←
13:58:45 <HadleyBeeman> ?
Hadley Beeman: ? ←
13:58:47 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
13:58:47 <Caroline_> ... can this group recommend to use metadata in this case?
... can this group recommend to use metadata in this case? ←
13:58:50 <PhilA> ack me
Phil Archer: ack me ←
13:58:50 <Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to comment on PDFs
Zakim IRC Bot: PhilA, you wanted to comment on PDFs ←
13:58:50 <Caroline_> laufer: yes
Carlos Laufer: yes ←
13:59:04 <Caroline_> PhilA: of course .pdf is going to be around for a long time
Phil Archer: of course .pdf is going to be around for a long time ←
13:59:17 <Caroline_> ... we had jimmy from adobe during the workshop
... we had jimmy from adobe during the workshop ←
13:59:26 <Caroline_> ... he said what you can do with a pdf
... he said what you can do with a pdf ←
13:59:31 <Caroline_> ... of course no one does it
... of course no one does it ←
13:59:40 <Caroline_> ... as long as anyone can use it should be there
... as long as anyone can use it should be there ←
13:59:59 <Caroline_> ... perhaps what we can say is taht if your pdf include tables, please use metadata
... perhaps what we can say is taht if your pdf include tables, please use metadata ←
14:00:08 <markharrison> q+ to say that metadata needs to provide context (geographic scope, time range, type of data, domain-specific vocabularies used) so that similar / comparable datasets can be identified
Mark Harrison: q+ to say that metadata needs to provide context (geographic scope, time range, type of data, domain-specific vocabularies used) so that similar / comparable datasets can be identified ←
14:00:23 <Caroline_> ... give people an explation why pdf in its own it is only usable for humans
... give people an explation why pdf in its own it is only usable for humans ←
14:00:45 <Caroline_> Steve: maybe a recommendation is when you scrape pdf it should have metadata
Steven Adler: maybe a recommendation is when you scrape pdf it should have metadata ←
14:01:13 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
14:01:17 <Caroline_> PhilA: somebody publishes a pdf and I spend the next 3 weeks reading it and I create a table based on that
Phil Archer: somebody publishes a pdf and I spend the next 3 weeks reading it and I create a table based on that ←
14:01:21 <ericstephan> tracking...
Eric Stephan: tracking... ←
14:01:27 <Caroline_> ... then I have to refer beack to the pdf
... then I have to refer beack to the pdf ←
14:01:41 <Caroline_> ... and say that refers to the metadata I refered
... and say that refers to the metadata I refered ←
14:01:54 <HadleyBeeman> scribenick: carlosiglesias
(Scribe set to Carlos Iglesias)
14:02:37 <gatemezi> Zakim, who is speaking?
Ghislain Atemezing: Zakim, who is speaking? ←
14:02:48 <Zakim> gatemezi, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: gatemezi (17%), ericstephan (100%), Steve (5%)
Zakim IRC Bot: gatemezi, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: gatemezi (17%), ericstephan (100%), Steve (5%) ←
14:02:53 <HadleyBeeman> ericstephan: I'll take that back. We have a careful delineation in the CSV on the Web working group — if you scrape data from a PDF file,
Eric Stephan: I'll take that back. We have a careful delineation in the CSV on the Web working group — if you scrape data from a PDF file, [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
14:03:14 <HadleyBeeman> … if you put it into a tabular format — that is the same as taking it from a database.
Hadley Beeman: … if you put it into a tabular format — that is the same as taking it from a database. ←
14:03:39 <HadleyBeeman> … I'll document this discussion. It fits with our other use cases where we're pulling data from an external source.
Hadley Beeman: … I'll document this discussion. It fits with our other use cases where we're pulling data from an external source. ←
14:03:43 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
14:03:51 <HadleyBeeman> ack deird
Hadley Beeman: ack deird ←
14:04:25 <CarlosIglesias> deirdrelee: any BPs editors yet?
Deirdre Lee: any BPs editors yet? ←
14:04:36 <CarlosIglesias> ... we are discussing a lot about that
... we are discussing a lot about that ←
14:04:47 <CarlosIglesias> ... would be useful to have somebody nominated
... would be useful to have somebody nominated ←
14:05:15 <CarlosIglesias> phila: any volunteers?
Phil Archer: any volunteers? ←
14:05:36 <ericstephan> I'd like to help out. Sounds attractive :-)
Eric Stephan: I'd like to help out. Sounds attractive :-) ←
14:05:59 <gatemezi> I suggest Deirdre ...
Ghislain Atemezing: I suggest Deirdre ... ←
14:06:24 <deirdrelee> thanks Ghislain!!
Deirdre Lee: thanks Ghislain!! ←
14:07:36 <HadleyBeeman> Notes page for best practice https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Best_practices_notes
Hadley Beeman: Notes page for best practice https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Best_practices_notes ←
14:07:37 <CarlosIglesias> steve: we should include not only best practices but also examples of why they are useful to give background
Steven Adler: we should include not only best practices but also examples of why they are useful to give background ←
14:08:23 <HadleyBeeman> Thank you so much for writing down our relevant comments on that wiki page, ericstephan. You're amazing!
Hadley Beeman: Thank you so much for writing down our relevant comments on that wiki page, ericstephan. You're amazing! ←
14:08:27 <CarlosIglesias> s/steve/adler1
14:08:41 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: There should be metadata
PROPOSED: There should be metadata ←
14:08:53 <yaso> +1
Yaso Córdova: +1 ←
14:08:56 <HadleyBeeman> +1
Hadley Beeman: +1 ←
14:08:56 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1
Joao Almeida: +1 ←
14:08:59 <laufer> +1
Carlos Laufer: +1 ←
14:08:59 <BernadetteLoscio> +1
Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←
14:08:59 <nathalia> +1
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: +1 ←
14:09:00 <markharrison> +1
Mark Harrison: +1 ←
14:09:00 <PhilA> +1
Phil Archer: +1 ←
14:09:01 <Ig_Bittencourt_> +1
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 ←
14:09:02 <gatemezi> +1
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 ←
14:09:03 <adrianov> +1
Adriano Veloso: +1 ←
14:09:06 <MakxDekkers> +1
Makx Dekkers: +1 ←
14:09:09 <ericstephan> +1
Eric Stephan: +1 ←
14:09:09 <CarlosIglesias> +1
+1 ←
14:09:12 <jeremy> +1
Jeremy Debattista: +1 ←
14:09:15 <Vagner_Br> +1
Vagner Diniz: +1 ←
14:09:15 <antoine> +1
Antoine Isaac: +1 ←
14:09:17 <fkyanai> +1
Flavio Yanai: +1 ←
14:09:27 <newton> +1
Newton Calegari: +1 ←
14:09:30 <CarlosIglesias> deirdrelee: machine readable?
Deirdre Lee: machine readable? ←
14:09:45 <CarlosIglesias> everyone - already agreed
everyone - already agreed ←
14:09:46 <PhilA> Resolved: There should be metadata
RESOLVED: There should be metadata ←
14:10:04 <CarlosIglesias> deirdrelee: should then include human readable requirement?
Deirdre Lee: should then include human readable requirement? ←
14:10:06 <HadleyBeeman> q+
Hadley Beeman: q+ ←
14:10:09 <PhilA> PROPOSED: That metadata should be human readable
PROPOSED: That metadata should be human readable ←
14:10:16 <nathalia> +1
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: +1 ←
14:10:17 <yaso> +1
Yaso Córdova: +1 ←
14:10:19 <fkyanai> +1
Flavio Yanai: +1 ←
14:10:23 <ericstephan> +1
Eric Stephan: +1 ←
14:10:24 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> -1
Joao Almeida: -1 ←
14:10:25 <HadleyBeeman> -1
Hadley Beeman: -1 ←
14:10:30 <MakxDekkers> -1
Makx Dekkers: -1 ←
14:10:31 <gatemezi> -2
Ghislain Atemezing: -2 ←
14:10:43 <BernadetteLoscio> +1
Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←
14:10:46 <yaso> use pdf to describe metadata pdf to describe metadata pdf…. that’s a (infinite) loop :-)
Yaso Córdova: use pdf to describe metadata pdf to describe metadata pdf…. that’s a (infinite) loop :-) ←
14:11:04 <CarlosIglesias> zakim, who is speaking?
zakim, who is speaking? ←
14:11:12 <deirdrelee> RESOLVED: There should be metadata
RESOLVED: There should be metadata ←
14:11:14 <Zakim> CarlosIglesias, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
Zakim IRC Bot: CarlosIglesias, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds ←
14:11:15 <MakxDekkers> can we say something about minimal metadata: who, what, when, where?
Makx Dekkers: can we say something about minimal metadata: who, what, when, where? ←
14:11:25 <MakxDekkers> who=the responsible org
Makx Dekkers: who=the responsible org ←
14:11:29 <antoine> q+
Antoine Isaac: q+ ←
14:11:35 <yaso> +1 to MakxDekkers
Yaso Córdova: +1 to MakxDekkers ←
14:11:42 <MakxDekkers> what=at least a short description or name
Makx Dekkers: what=at least a short description or name ←
14:11:43 <CarlosIglesias> hadleybeeman: lot of metadata is encoded
Hadley Beeman: lot of metadata is encoded ←
14:11:50 <CarlosIglesias> ... not human readable
... not human readable ←
14:11:53 <ericstephan> Is it a best practice or common practice?
Eric Stephan: Is it a best practice or common practice? ←
14:11:54 <MakxDekkers> when=date of publication
Makx Dekkers: when=date of publication ←
14:11:56 <CarlosIglesias> ... but still useful
... but still useful ←
14:12:01 <MakxDekkers> where=downlaod link
Makx Dekkers: where=downlaod link ←
14:12:07 <MakxDekkers> Sorry no voice connection
Makx Dekkers: Sorry no voice connection ←
14:12:10 <CarlosIglesias> ... not to mandate to be human readable
... not to mandate to be human readable ←
14:12:32 <HadleyBeeman> ack mark
Hadley Beeman: ack mark ←
14:12:32 <Zakim> markharrison, you wanted to say that metadata needs to provide context (geographic scope, time range, type of data, domain-specific vocabularies used) so that similar / comparable
Zakim IRC Bot: markharrison, you wanted to say that metadata needs to provide context (geographic scope, time range, type of data, domain-specific vocabularies used) so that similar / comparable ←
14:12:34 <HadleyBeeman> acck me
Hadley Beeman: acck me ←
14:12:35 <Zakim> ... datasets can be identified
Zakim IRC Bot: ... datasets can be identified ←
14:12:35 <HadleyBeeman> ack me
Hadley Beeman: ack me ←
14:12:40 <BernadetteLoscio> +q
Bernadette Farias Loscio: +q ←
14:13:12 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> the key point is that metadata should be defined in a format that is well described
Joao Almeida: the key point is that metadata should be defined in a format that is well described ←
14:13:17 <CarlosIglesias> adler1: can encourage human readability
Steven Adler: can encourage human readability ←
14:13:18 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> there must be rules for interpretation
Joao Almeida: there must be rules for interpretation ←
14:13:21 <CarlosIglesias> ... not require
... not require ←
14:13:27 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Hadley just exemplified that
Joao Almeida: Hadley just exemplified that ←
14:13:43 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> She used integers with clear interpretation rules (1 for school, 2 for ...)
Joao Almeida: She used integers with clear interpretation rules (1 for school, 2 for ...) ←
14:13:44 <HadleyBeeman> ack antoine
Hadley Beeman: ack antoine ←
14:13:53 <CarlosIglesias> q+ to say must be human readable at some point
q+ to say must be human readable at some point ←
14:14:16 <CarlosIglesias> antoine: if it is not human readable it won't be reused
Antoine Isaac: if it is not human readable it won't be reused ←
14:14:24 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> it doesn't have to be human readable it has to be MEANINGFUL (sorry to shout I am far away :-))
Joao Almeida: it doesn't have to be human readable it has to be MEANINGFUL (sorry to shout I am far away :-)) ←
14:14:36 <MakxDekkers> if it is machine-readable, the machine can make it human-readable
Makx Dekkers: if it is machine-readable, the machine can make it human-readable ←
14:14:44 <gatemezi> Is html document is human readable ?
Ghislain Atemezing: Is html document is human readable ? ←
14:14:55 <ericstephan> good point Makx
Eric Stephan: good point Makx ←
14:15:13 <CarlosIglesias> discussion on what human readable means
discussion on what human readable means ←
14:15:20 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
14:15:40 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> are we going to discuss human readable? we haven't finalized the discussion about machine readable? :-0
Joao Almeida: are we going to discuss human readable? we haven't finalized the discussion about machine readable? :-0 ←
14:15:57 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> ... (the definition)
Joao Almeida: ... (the definition) ←
14:16:08 <HadleyBeeman> carlosIglesias: I think what we mean is that metadata should be comprehensible.
Carlos Iglesias: I think what we mean is that metadata should be comprehensible. [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
14:16:17 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1 to carlos that's UNDERSTANDLE
Joao Almeida: +1 to carlos that's UNDERSTANDABLE ←
14:16:33 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> what I meant with MEANINGFUL
Joao Almeida: what I meant with MEANINGFUL ←
14:16:33 <HadleyBeeman> … At some point in the chain, that metadata should be expressed such that humans can read it.
Hadley Beeman: … At some point in the chain, that metadata should be expressed such that humans can read it. ←
14:17:06 <CarlosIglesias> carlosiglesias: human-readable vs. comprehensive metadata
Carlos Iglesias: human-readable vs. comprehensive metadata ←
14:17:09 <deirdrelee> q+
Deirdre Lee: q+ ←
14:17:23 <CarlosIglesias> adler1: these are different things
Steven Adler: these are different things ←
14:17:30 <PhilA> ack BernadetteLoscio
Phil Archer: ack BernadetteLoscio ←
14:17:53 <CarlosIglesias> BernadetteLoscio: it's more about metadata documentation and not human readability
Bernadette Farias Loscio: it's more about metadata documentation and not human readability ←
14:17:55 <laufer> +1
Carlos Laufer: +1 ←
14:17:58 <CarlosIglesias> ... metadata description
... metadata description ←
14:17:58 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> it's not an issue of cognitive limitations, it's an issue of having minimum descriptions that allows one to interpret it
Joao Almeida: it's not an issue of cognitive limitations, it's an issue of having minimum descriptions that allows one to interpret it ←
14:18:00 <Caroline_> +1 to Bernadette
Caroline Burle: +1 to Bernadette ←
14:18:04 <markharrison> Encourage development of tools that make machine-readable metadata understandable to humans (even non-technical humans that don't read XML)
Mark Harrison: Encourage development of tools that make machine-readable metadata understandable to humans (even non-technical humans that don't read XML) ←
14:18:09 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> to map the data to situations in reality, to interpret it
Joao Almeida: to map the data to situations in reality, to interpret it ←
14:18:11 <CarlosIglesias> laufer: human understandable
Carlos Laufer: human understandable ←
14:18:18 <nathalia> +1 to Bernadette
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: +1 to Bernadette ←
14:18:25 <MakxDekkers> the more requirements you put on metadata, the less you are going to get
Makx Dekkers: the more requirements you put on metadata, the less you are going to get ←
14:18:37 <Vagner_Br> s/UNDERSTANDLE/UNDERSTANDABLE/
14:18:41 <CarlosIglesias> BernadetteLoscio: it's about metadata documentation
Bernadette Farias Loscio: it's about metadata documentation ←
14:18:43 <HadleyBeeman> +1 to makxdekkers
Hadley Beeman: +1 to makxdekkers ←
14:18:54 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> thanks, Vagner_Br
Joao Almeida: thanks, Vagner_Br ←
14:18:59 <HadleyBeeman> q+ to talk about unreadable human readable textz
Hadley Beeman: q+ to talk about unreadable human readable textz ←
14:19:08 <CarlosIglesias> BernadetteLoscio: ... with description of metadata
Bernadette Farias Loscio: ... with description of metadata ←
14:19:10 <CarlosIglesias> q-
q- ←
14:19:10 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> q+
Joao Almeida: q+ ←
14:19:24 <HadleyBeeman> ack deirdre
Hadley Beeman: ack deirdre ←
14:19:33 <Ig_Bittencourt_> I think it is just like add an rdf:about to that metadata
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: I think it is just like add an rdf:about to that metadata ←
14:19:36 <markharrison> Note that not all of the requirements on metadata need to fall on the data / metadata publishers - third-party tool developers can help to make metadata more understandable.
Mark Harrison: Note that not all of the requirements on metadata need to fall on the data / metadata publishers - third-party tool developers can help to make metadata more understandable. ←
14:19:38 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, unmute me
Joao Almeida: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:19:38 <Zakim> JoaoPauloAlmeida should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: JoaoPauloAlmeida should no longer be muted ←
14:19:53 <PhilA> q+ to make proposal that machine readable metadata should include or refer to human readable documentation
Phil Archer: q+ to make proposal that machine readable metadata should include or refer to human readable documentation ←
14:20:03 <CarlosIglesias> deirdrelee: human readable? well documented? easy to understand? comprenhesible?
Deirdre Lee: human readable? well documented? easy to understand? comprehensible? ←
14:20:04 <ericstephan> Easy to understand or well defined?
Eric Stephan: Easy to understand or well defined? ←
14:20:37 <CarlosIglesias> adler1: nobody will understand the human-readable thing
Steven Adler: nobody will understand the human-readable thing ←
14:20:39 <PhilA> q-
Phil Archer: q- ←
14:20:55 <deirdrelee> PROPOSAL: Metadata should be well-documented and easy to understand
PROPOSED: Metadata should be well-documented and easy to understand ←
14:20:57 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> q-
Joao Almeida: q- ←
14:20:58 <CarlosIglesias> +1
+1 ←
14:21:01 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: Metadata should be well-documented and easy to understand
PROPOSED: Metadata should be well-documented and easy to understand ←
14:21:02 <yaso> +1
Yaso Córdova: +1 ←
14:21:18 <nathalia> +1
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: +1 ←
14:21:21 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> we could mention: in such a way that it can be interpreted
Joao Almeida: we could mention: in such a way that it can be interpreted ←
14:21:25 <Caroline_> +1
Caroline Burle: +1 ←
14:21:27 <Vagner_Br> s/comprenhesible/comprehensible/
14:21:30 <Vagner_Br> q?
Vagner Diniz: q? ←
14:21:30 <PhilA> 0
Phil Archer: 0 ←
14:21:32 <ericstephan> +1
Eric Stephan: +1 ←
14:21:34 <CarlosIglesias> philt: metadata should also be relevant
Phil Tetlow: metadata should also be relevant ←
14:21:35 <markharrison> q+ to make proposal that machine readable metadata should include or refer to (*OR* be capable of being automatically transformed into) human readable documentation
Mark Harrison: q+ to make proposal that machine readable metadata should include or refer to (*OR* be capable of being automatically transformed into) human readable documentation ←
14:21:39 <MakxDekkers> -0
Makx Dekkers: -0 ←
14:21:41 <laufer> +1
Carlos Laufer: +1 ←
14:21:44 <adrianov> +1
Adriano Veloso: +1 ←
14:21:53 <MakxDekkers> -1
Makx Dekkers: -1 ←
14:22:01 <MakxDekkers> -1 to mark
Makx Dekkers: -1 to mark ←
14:22:13 <HadleyBeeman> makxdekkers, why?
Hadley Beeman: makxdekkers, why? ←
14:22:23 <CarlosIglesias> philt: ... documentation should be relevant to the data it describes
Phil Tetlow: ... documentation should be relevant to the data it describes ←
14:22:37 <CarlosIglesias> vagner: machine readable and well documented
Vagner Diniz: machine readable and well documented ←
14:22:44 <MakxDekkers> general point: limit the reqs on metadata to the minimum
Makx Dekkers: general point: limit the reqs on metadata to the minimum ←
14:22:46 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> isn't that obvious (relevant?)
Joao Almeida: isn't that obvious (relevant?) ←
14:23:04 <antoine> q+
Antoine Isaac: q+ ←
14:23:04 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> if someone publishes data that is not relevant, what are they doing?
Joao Almeida: if someone publishes data that is not relevant, what are they doing? ←
14:23:23 <PhilA> I am sympathetic JoaoPauloAlmeida
Phil Archer: I am sympathetic JoaoPauloAlmeida ←
14:23:29 <CarlosIglesias> overall metadiscussion about metadata discussion
overall metadiscussion about metadata discussion ←
14:23:29 <MakxDekkers> it is in the interest of the publisher to provide information that helps people understand what it is!
Makx Dekkers: it is in the interest of the publisher to provide information that helps people understand what it is! ←
14:23:53 <yaso> https://www.lib.umn.edu/datamanagement/metadata
Yaso Córdova: https://www.lib.umn.edu/datamanagement/metadata ←
14:24:17 <Caroline_> +1 to JoaoPauloAlmeida
Caroline Burle: +1 to JoaoPauloAlmeida ←
14:24:26 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> could you hear me?
Joao Almeida: could you hear me? ←
14:24:27 <yaso> q+
Yaso Córdova: q+ ←
14:24:33 <markharrison> (batteries failing on laptop again)
Mark Harrison: (batteries failing on laptop again) ←
14:24:50 <BernadetteLoscio> +1
Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←
14:24:50 <HadleyBeeman> joaopauloalmeida: no, we couldn't. Sorry!
Joao Almeida: no, we couldn't. Sorry! [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
14:24:50 <adler1> +1
Steven Adler: +1 ←
14:24:57 <gatemezi> +1
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 ←
14:25:21 <CarlosIglesias> hadleybeeman: @mark and @joao please follow-up by irc
Hadley Beeman: @mark and @joao please follow-up by irc ←
14:26:00 <CarlosIglesias> phila: like the purpouse but don't like the wording
Phil Archer: like the purpouse but don't like the wording ←
14:26:20 <CarlosIglesias> phila: thinking on dublin core
Phil Archer: thinking on dublin core ←
14:26:33 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> easy to understand is not good; we should not use terms that suggest any level of cognitive effectiveness
Joao Almeida: easy to understand is not good; we should not use terms that suggest any level of cognitive effectiveness ←
14:26:45 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> scientific data is very hard to understand
Joao Almeida: scientific data is very hard to understand ←
14:26:56 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1 to PhilA
Joao Almeida: +1 to PhilA ←
14:26:59 <CarlosIglesias> phila: it is something included in the metadata that makes it easy to understand
Phil Archer: it is something included in the metadata that makes it easy to understand ←
14:27:05 <Ig_Bittencourt_> +1 to PhilA
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 to PhilA ←
14:27:12 <MakxDekkers> PhilA isn't that obvious?
Makx Dekkers: PhilA isn't that obvious? ←
14:27:34 <ericstephan> If you understand the vocabulary you have a better chance of understanding the dublin core records
Eric Stephan: If you understand the vocabulary you have a better chance of understanding the dublin core records ←
14:27:53 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> the key issue is that there should be sufficient documentation such that the intended audience can extract the meaning
Joao Almeida: the key issue is that there should be sufficient documentation such that the intended audience can extract the meaning ←
14:28:15 <MakxDekkers> E.g a Chines publisher will provide a description in Chinese if that is the audience for it
Makx Dekkers: E.g a Chines publisher will provide a description in Chinese if that is the audience for it ←
14:28:15 <CarlosIglesias> ... several potential audiences
... several potential audiences ←
14:28:20 <yaso> q+
Yaso Córdova: q+ ←
14:28:28 <CarlosIglesias> ... dna metadata may be not so easy to understand
... dna metadata may be not so easy to understand ←
14:28:35 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> I disagree that there is no intended audience.
Joao Almeida: I disagree that there is no intended audience. ←
14:28:45 <HadleyBeeman> I'm with you, joaopaulo
Hadley Beeman: I'm with you, joaopaulo ←
14:28:51 <HadleyBeeman> q-
Hadley Beeman: q- ←
14:28:55 <CarlosIglesias> adler1: if we want metadata to be used and the history of the data be understood
Steven Adler: if we want metadata to be used and the history of the data be understood ←
14:28:57 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> You could have a very wide intended audience ("the public")
Joao Almeida: You could have a very wide intended audience ("the public") ←
14:29:02 <HadleyBeeman> q+ to talk about intended users
Hadley Beeman: q+ to talk about intended users ←
14:29:04 <CarlosIglesias> ... then metadata should be easy to understand
... then metadata should be easy to understand ←
14:29:05 <ericstephan> I still have trouble reading the metadata about the ingredients on my cereal box
Eric Stephan: I still have trouble reading the metadata about the ingredients on my cereal box ←
14:29:34 <CarlosIglesias> ... same data can be reused by different audiences
... same data can be reused by different audiences ←
14:29:37 <HadleyBeeman> ericstephan: I have a food allergy, so I've put many years into becoming an expert on that :)
Eric Stephan: I have a food allergy, so I've put many years into becoming an expert on that :) [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
14:29:38 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> cognitive effectiveness or "ease to understand" must not be unqualified without referring to the audience
Joao Almeida: cognitive effectiveness or "ease to understand" must not be unqualified without referring to the audience ←
14:29:48 <HadleyBeeman> ack mark
Hadley Beeman: ack mark ←
14:29:48 <Zakim> markharrison, you wanted to make proposal that machine readable metadata should include or refer to (*OR* be capable of being automatically transformed into) human readable
Zakim IRC Bot: markharrison, you wanted to make proposal that machine readable metadata should include or refer to (*OR* be capable of being automatically transformed into) human readable ←
14:29:52 <Zakim> ... documentation
Zakim IRC Bot: ... documentation ←
14:30:04 <ericstephan> :-) Getting better over time Hadley :-)
Eric Stephan: :-) Getting better over time Hadley :-) ←
14:30:21 <PhilT> q+
Phil Tetlow: q+ ←
14:31:00 <HadleyBeeman> ack antoine
Hadley Beeman: ack antoine ←
14:31:09 <CarlosIglesias> adler1: make it possible to everyone if that's useful for them
Steven Adler: make it possible to everyone if that's useful for them ←
14:31:20 <Vagner_Br> +1 to JoaoPauloAlmeida metadata should be easy to understand to the "intendend audience"
Vagner Diniz: +1 to JoaoPauloAlmeida metadata should be easy to understand to the "intendend audience" ←
14:31:22 <CarlosIglesias> ... specially important for governments
... specially important for governments ←
14:31:44 <HadleyBeeman> ack yaso
Hadley Beeman: ack yaso ←
14:31:51 <yaso> http://irsa.ipac.caltech.edu/applications/DDGEN/Doc/ipac_tbl.html
Yaso Córdova: http://irsa.ipac.caltech.edu/applications/DDGEN/Doc/ipac_tbl.html ←
14:31:57 <CarlosIglesias> philt: include documentation with metadata
Phil Tetlow: include documentation with metadata ←
14:32:05 <CarlosIglesias> ... to avoid broken pointers
... to avoid broken pointers ←
14:32:07 <HadleyBeeman> yaso: that link ^ is well-documented metadata
Yaso Córdova: that link ^ is well-documented metadata [ Scribe Assist by Hadley Beeman ] ←
14:32:08 <PhilA> +1 to PhilT talking about persistent data and equally persistent documentation (I paraphrase)
Phil Archer: +1 to PhilT talking about persistent data and equally persistent documentation (I paraphrase) ←
14:32:21 <PhilA> ack philt
Phil Archer: ack philt ←
14:32:27 <deirdrelee> q+
Deirdre Lee: q+ ←
14:32:39 <JohnGoodwin> another useful document potentially http://www.agi.org.uk/storage/standards/uk-gemini/MetadataGuidelines1.pdf
John Goodwin: another useful document potentially http://www.agi.org.uk/storage/standards/uk-gemini/MetadataGuidelines1.pdf ←
14:32:40 <CarlosIglesias> yaso: we have standards for documentation and we can make use of them
Yaso Córdova: we have standards for documentation and we can make use of them ←
14:32:50 <PhilA> ack HadleyBeeman
Phil Archer: ack HadleyBeeman ←
14:32:50 <Zakim> HadleyBeeman, you wanted to talk about intended users
Zakim IRC Bot: HadleyBeeman, you wanted to talk about intended users ←
14:33:19 <Caroline_> +1 to Hadley
Caroline Burle: +1 to Hadley ←
14:33:20 <antoine> q+ to ask about ourrole for defining metadata
Antoine Isaac: q+ to ask about ourrole for defining metadata ←
14:33:21 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I struggle to think in terms other than with a user in mind. You need a target audience in mind (developer/ public etc)
Hadley Beeman: I struggle to think in terms other than with a user in mind. You need a target audience in mind (developer/ public etc) [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
14:33:25 <HadleyBeeman> ack deirdre
Hadley Beeman: ack deirdre ←
14:33:29 <CarlosIglesias> hadleybeeman: it is important to know who you will be speaking to while writing documentation
Hadley Beeman: it is important to know who you will be speaking to while writing documentation ←
14:33:34 <MakxDekkers> maybe also useful https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/asset/dcat_application_profile/description
Makx Dekkers: maybe also useful https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/asset/dcat_application_profile/description ←
14:33:45 <Caroline_> +1 to the 1st proposal
Caroline Burle: +1 to the 1st proposal ←
14:33:56 <deirdrelee> Option 1: Metadata should be well-documented and useful for the intended audience
Deirdre Lee: Option 1: Metadata should be well-documented and useful for the intended audience ←
14:33:56 <MakxDekkers> which proposal?
Makx Dekkers: which option? ←
14:33:56 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> can you put these in the IRC?
Joao Almeida: can you put these in the IRC? ←
14:33:59 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> thanks
Joao Almeida: thanks ←
14:34:06 <HadleyBeeman> I like option 1
Hadley Beeman: I like option 1 ←
14:34:08 <deirdrelee> Option2 - Metadata should be capable of being automatically transformed into human readable documentation
Deirdre Lee: Option2 - Metadata should be capable of being automatically transformed into human readable documentation ←
14:34:20 <yaso> +1 to the 1st option
Yaso Córdova: +1 to the 1st option ←
14:34:31 <MakxDekkers> option 1: define welll-cdocumented
Makx Dekkers: option 1: define welll-cdocumented ←
14:34:34 <HadleyBeeman> I feel like option 2 is more "it would be nice if". I suspect we'll have fewer use cases for it though.
Hadley Beeman: I feel like option 2 is more "it would be nice if". I suspect we'll have fewer use cases for it though. ←
14:34:36 <Caroline_> s/proposal/option
14:34:38 <gatemezi> +1 for option 1
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 for option 1 ←
14:34:44 <jeremy> +1 for option 1
Jeremy Debattista: +1 for option 1 ←
14:34:48 <MakxDekkers> option 2: not necessary
Makx Dekkers: option 2: not necessary ←
14:34:48 <PhilA> Option 3 - Metadata should include or refer to documentation useful for the intended audience
Phil Archer: Option 3 - Metadata should include or refer to documentation useful for the intended audience ←
14:34:49 <nathalia> +1 for option 1
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: +1 for option 1 ←
14:34:52 <laufer> +1 for option 1
Carlos Laufer: +1 for option 1 ←
14:34:58 <JohnGoodwin> +1 option 1
John Goodwin: +1 option 1 ←
14:34:58 <markharrison> +1 for option 1, +1 (nice to have) for option 2
Mark Harrison: +1 for option 1, +1 (nice to have) for option 2 ←
14:35:04 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> I prefer option 1
Joao Almeida: I prefer option 1 ←
14:35:09 <CarlosIglesias> antoine: if it is machine readable it will be easy to have human readable documentation
Antoine Isaac: if it is machine readable it will be easy to have human readable documentation ←
14:35:11 <adrianov> +1 for option 1
Adriano Veloso: +1 for option 1 ←
14:35:12 <MakxDekkers> metadata IS a form of (structured) documentation
Makx Dekkers: metadata IS a form of (structured) documentation ←
14:35:14 <ericstephan> +1 for Option 2
Eric Stephan: +1 for Option 2 ←
14:35:18 <BernadetteLoscio> +1 option 1
Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 option 1 ←
14:35:28 <newton> +1 option 1
Newton Calegari: +1 option 1 ←
14:35:29 <CarlosIglesias> ... drop option 2, not necessary if we have machine-readability
... drop option 2, not necessary if we have machine-readability ←
14:35:31 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> can we generalize this to data (which would include metadata)?
Joao Almeida: can we generalize this to data (which would include metadata)? ←
14:36:38 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> any data (including metadata) should be structured in such a way that it is possible for the intended audience to extract its meaning; one way of doing this is to supply documentation
Joao Almeida: any data (including metadata) should be structured in such a way that it is possible for the intended audience to extract its meaning; one way of doing this is to supply documentation ←
14:36:40 <antoine> +1 option3, it matches well philT's point
Antoine Isaac: +1 option3, it matches well philT's point ←
14:37:00 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> what is option 3?
Joao Almeida: what is option 3? ←
14:37:01 <CarlosIglesias> philt: every description should include the provenance
Phil Tetlow: every description should include the provenance ←
14:37:19 <CarlosIglesias> phila: that will be coming
Phil Archer: that will be coming ←
14:37:46 <gatemezi> Provenance should be part of the metadata..
Ghislain Atemezing: Provenance should be part of the metadata.. ←
14:38:05 <CarlosIglesias> ... the dataset should have metadata
... the dataset should have metadata ←
14:38:06 <MakxDekkers> +1 for provenance. it is the WHO I suggested earlier
Makx Dekkers: +1 for provenance. it is the WHO I suggested earlier ←
14:38:13 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> PhilA, that's why I think we should generalize
Joao Almeida: PhilA, that's why I think we should generalize ←
14:38:16 <ericstephan> Provenance is a type of metadata
Eric Stephan: Provenance is a type of metadata ←
14:38:28 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> data or metadata must be meaningful to the intended audiences
Joao Almeida: data or metadata must be meaningful to the intended audiences ←
14:38:43 <CarlosIglesias> ... and on other hand data should be document
... and on other hand data should be document ←
14:38:54 <gatemezi> And provenance used to cover most of 75% of metadata ....
Ghislain Atemezing: And provenance used to cover most of 75% of metadata .... ←
14:39:00 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Why don't we generalize? we don't need to go infinitely meta
Joao Almeida: Why don't we generalize? we don't need to go infinitely meta ←
14:39:09 <CarlosIglesias> deirdrelee: its more about metadata that could have different interpretations
Deirdre Lee: its more about metadata that could have different interpretations ←
14:39:32 <CarlosIglesias> ... to avoid ambiguity need good description, label is enough
... to avoid ambiguity need good description, label is enough ←
14:39:37 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Labels helps the intended audience to extract the meaning of data
Joao Almeida: Labels helps the intended audience to extract the meaning of data ←
14:40:30 <CarlosIglesias> vagner: metadata is also data
Vagner Diniz: metadata is also data ←
14:40:36 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> thanks for reading the comment (I am sorry I don't know your name)
Joao Almeida: thanks for reading the comment (I am sorry I don't know your name) ←
14:40:50 <CarlosIglesias> ... the description of metadata should also follow data best practices
... the description of metadata should also follow data best practices ←
14:42:17 <CarlosIglesias> phila: when talking about metadata we don't restrict ourself about the vocabularies in scope of the wg
Phil Archer: when talking about metadata we don't restrict ourself about the vocabularies in scope of the wg ←
14:42:23 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
14:42:26 <CarlosIglesias> ... but also any other
... but also any other ←
14:43:21 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> thanks Vagner_Br, I didn't realize it was you as the image in the hang out is fuzzy
Joao Almeida: thanks Vagner_Br, I didn't realize it was you as the image in the hang out is fuzzy ←
14:43:43 <PhilA> zakim, close queue
Phil Archer: zakim, close queue ←
14:43:43 <Zakim> ok, PhilA, the speaker queue is closed
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, PhilA, the speaker queue is closed ←
14:44:46 <CarlosIglesias> hadleybeeman: can jump on the following challenges and come back to metadata later
Hadley Beeman: can jump on the following challenges and come back to metadata later ←
14:45:32 <PhilA> q?
Phil Archer: q? ←
14:45:53 <MakxDekkers> can you record what deirdre just said?
Makx Dekkers: can you record what deirdre just said? ←
14:45:59 <deirdrelee> option 4: Metadata vocabulary, or values if vocabulary is not standardised, should be well-documented
Deirdre Lee: option 4: Metadata vocabulary, or values if vocabulary is not standardised, should be well-documented ←
14:46:02 <HadleyBeeman> ack antoine
Hadley Beeman: ack antoine ←
14:46:02 <Zakim> antoine, you wanted to ask about ourrole for defining metadata
Zakim IRC Bot: antoine, you wanted to ask about ourrole for defining metadata ←
14:46:04 <PhilA> q- antoine
Phil Archer: q- antoine ←
14:46:11 <MakxDekkers> option 4 ++++
Makx Dekkers: option 4 ++++ ←
14:46:14 <PhilA> +1
Phil Archer: +1 ←
14:46:20 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: Metadata vocabulary, or values if vocabulary is not standardised, should be well-documented
PROPOSED: Metadata vocabulary, or values if vocabulary is not standardised, should be well-documented ←
14:46:23 <HadleyBeeman> +1
Hadley Beeman: +1 ←
14:46:23 <PhilA> +1
Phil Archer: +1 ←
14:46:25 <laufer> +1
Carlos Laufer: +1 ←
14:46:25 <JohnGoodwin> +1
John Goodwin: +1 ←
14:46:26 <adler1> +1
Steven Adler: +1 ←
14:46:29 <ericstephan> +1
Eric Stephan: +1 ←
14:46:29 <Caroline_> +1
Caroline Burle: +1 ←
14:46:30 <markharrison> +1
Mark Harrison: +1 ←
14:46:30 <newton> +1
Newton Calegari: +1 ←
14:46:31 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1 to coffee
Joao Almeida: +1 to coffee ←
14:46:32 <gatemezi> +1
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 ←
14:46:33 <antoine> +1
Antoine Isaac: +1 ←
14:46:35 <adrianov> +1
Adriano Veloso: +1 ←
14:46:36 <jeremy> +1
Jeremy Debattista: +1 ←
14:46:36 <Vagner_Br> +1
Vagner Diniz: +1 ←
14:46:38 <nathalia> +1
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: +1 ←
14:46:39 <MakxDekkers> +1 again
Makx Dekkers: +1 again ←
14:46:46 <Vagner_Br> +1 happy
Vagner Diniz: +1 happy ←
14:46:46 <Ig_Bittencourt_> +1
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 ←
14:46:49 <fkyanai> +1
Flavio Yanai: +1 ←
14:46:56 <deirdrelee> RESOLVED: Metadata vocabulary, or values if vocabulary is not standardised, should be well-documented
RESOLVED: Metadata vocabulary, or values if vocabulary is not standardised, should be well-documented ←
14:47:03 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> I hope somewhere we can produce a more general statement: Data must be produced using conventions that enable the intended audience to extract its meaning; usually, this is achieve through documentation
Joao Almeida: I hope somewhere we can produce a more general statement: Data must be produced using conventions that enable the intended audience to extract its meaning; usually, this is achieve through documentation ←
14:47:09 <CarlosIglesias> 10 min brake
10 min brake ←
14:47:18 <PhilA> rrsagent, draft minutes
Phil Archer: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
14:47:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA ←
14:47:25 <PhilA> == Break ==
15:04:26 <ericstephan> Deirdrelee I'm updating the best practices as follows, does this look okay https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Best_practices_notes#guidance_on_the_provision_of_metadata
(No events recorded for 17 minutes)
Eric Stephan: Deirdrelee I'm updating the best practices as follows, does this look okay https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Best_practices_notes#guidance_on_the_provision_of_metadata ←
15:08:50 <PhilA> zakim, phila is really antoine
Phil Archer: zakim, phila is really antoine ←
15:08:50 <Zakim> sorry, PhilA, I do not recognize a party named 'phila'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, PhilA, I do not recognize a party named 'phila' ←
15:09:12 <PhilA> scribe: Phila
(Scribe set to Phil Archer)
15:11:21 <antoine> ==restarting==
Antoine Isaac: ==restarting== ←
15:11:45 <antoine> zakim, who is here?
Antoine Isaac: zakim, who is here? ←
15:11:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see JoaoPauloAlmeida, gatemezi, ericstephan, Steve
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see JoaoPauloAlmeida, gatemezi, ericstephan, Steve ←
15:11:48 <Zakim> Steve has jeremy
Zakim IRC Bot: Steve has jeremy ←
15:11:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see newton, Vagner_Br, HadleyBeeman, nathalia, raphael, Ig_Bittencourt_, PhilT, adler1, yaso, BernadetteLoscio, CarlosIglesias, deirdrelee, Caroline_, fkyanai, adrianov,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see newton, Vagner_Br, HadleyBeeman, nathalia, raphael, Ig_Bittencourt_, PhilT, adler1, yaso, BernadetteLoscio, CarlosIglesias, deirdrelee, Caroline_, fkyanai, adrianov, ←
15:11:48 <Zakim> ... gatemezi, JoaoPauloAlmeida, MakxDekkers, antoine, laufer, markharrison, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ericstephan, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... gatemezi, JoaoPauloAlmeida, MakxDekkers, antoine, laufer, markharrison, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, ericstephan, trackbot ←
15:12:02 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> let's go!
Joao Almeida: let's go! ←
15:12:36 <PhilA> deirdrelee: metadata should be strandardized
Deirdre Lee: metadata should be strandardized ←
15:12:51 <ericstephan> lol
Eric Stephan: lol ←
15:12:53 <deirdrelee> option
Deirdre Lee: option ←
15:12:55 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: W3C has a definition for ' standardized'?
Hadley Beeman: W3C has a definition for ' standardized'? ←
15:12:56 <gatemezi> Do not agree!
Ghislain Atemezing: Do not agree! ←
15:13:37 <gatemezi> Maybe the format for representing the metadata should be standardized ..
Ghislain Atemezing: Maybe the format for representing the metadata should be standardized .. ←
15:13:51 <PhilA> PhilA: yes. using vocabularies with change management with certain level of persistence
Phil Archer: yes. using vocabularies with change management with certain level of persistence ←
15:14:07 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: proposes UK govt def of standards [it's long]
Hadley Beeman: proposes UK govt def of standards [it's long] ←
15:14:31 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> foaf is an example
Joao Almeida: foaf is an example ←
15:14:37 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> of useful vocabulary that is not "standardized"
Joao Almeida: of useful vocabulary that is not "standardized" ←
15:14:55 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: it has some way to show people are using it
Hadley Beeman: it has some way to show people are using it ←
15:14:57 <deirdrelee> Option - Metadata should be standardised or in demonstrably common use
Deirdre Lee: Option - Metadata should be standardised or in demonstrably common use ←
15:15:23 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←
15:15:35 <antoine> zakim, open queue
Antoine Isaac: zakim, open queue ←
15:15:35 <Zakim> ok, antoine, the speaker queue is open
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, antoine, the speaker queue is open ←
15:15:41 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←
15:16:10 <HadleyBeeman> ack ber
Hadley Beeman: ack ber ←
15:16:33 <PhilA> PhilA + BernadetteLoscio: we've covered it in previous resolution, no?
PhilA + BernadetteLoscio: we've covered it in previous resolution, no? ←
15:16:52 <ericstephan> I prefer the term community vocabulary
Eric Stephan: I prefer the term community vocabulary ←
15:17:01 <PhilA> PhilA: there are vocabularies that are used a lot, but no standards. FOAF, schema.org
Phil Archer: there are vocabularies that are used a lot, but no standards. FOAF, schema.org ←
15:17:26 <PhilA> CarlosIglesias: we should consider consensus
Carlos Iglesias: we should consider consensus ←
15:17:41 <ericstephan> phone reception really bad on my end, anyone else having problems hearing?
Eric Stephan: phone reception really bad on my end, anyone else having problems hearing? ←
15:17:47 <PhilA> ... community aspects
... community aspects ←
15:17:50 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> also bad on my end
Joao Almeida: also bad on my end ←
15:18:17 <gatemezi> Another option? Option - Metadata should be (widely) adopted by a given community or experts and should demonstrate common use
Ghislain Atemezing: Another option? Option - Metadata should be (widely) adopted by a given community or experts and should demonstrate common use ←
15:18:33 <ericstephan> +1 gatemezi
Eric Stephan: +1 gatemezi ←
15:18:58 <BernadetteLoscio> what about: Metadata VOCABULARY should be (widely) adopted by a given community or experts and should demonstrate common use
Bernadette Farias Loscio: what about: Metadata VOCABULARY should be (widely) adopted by a given community or experts and should demonstrate common use ←
15:19:12 <PhilA> CarlosIglesias: developed with open approach
Carlos Iglesias: developed with open approach ←
15:19:23 <gatemezi> I don't want to mix metada and vocab..
Ghislain Atemezing: I don't want to mix metadata and vocab.. ←
15:19:32 <gatemezi> s/metada/metadata
15:19:42 <PhilA> adler1: de facto, market standards
Steven Adler: de facto, market standards ←
15:19:56 <markharrison> q+
Mark Harrison: q+ ←
15:19:56 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> how about: Data must be produced using conventions that are widely disseminated and agreed upon by the intende d audience
Joao Almeida: how about: Data must be produced using conventions that are widely disseminated and agreed upon by the intende d audience ←
15:20:08 <ericstephan> Yes that makes more sense
Eric Stephan: Yes that makes more sense ←
15:20:24 <PhilA> deirdrelee: suggests to jump to vocabularies and come back to metadata later
Deirdre Lee: suggests to jump to vocabularies and come back to metadata later ←
15:21:07 <gatemezi> JoaoPauloAlmeida: your proposal is more generic.. and yes, makes sense
Joao Almeida: your proposal is more generic.. and yes, makes sense [ Scribe Assist by Ghislain Atemezing ] ←
15:21:09 <PhilA> markharrison: LOD de-referencing for vocabularies allows metadata at granular level
Mark Harrison: LD de-referencing for vocabularies allows metadata at granular level ←
15:21:16 <PhilA> s/LOD/LD
15:21:29 <PhilA> deirdrelee: challenges for vocs
Deirdre Lee: challenges for vocs ←
15:21:44 <PhilA> ... 1 common vocs are not used
... 1 common vocs are not used ←
15:22:21 <PhilA> ... 2 added value comes from combining comparable datasets
... 2 added value comes from combining comparable datasets ←
15:23:24 <PhilA> CarlosIglesias: best practice could be to share own vocs with the rest of data managers
Carlos Iglesias: best practice could be to share own vocs with the rest of data managers ←
15:23:28 <gatemezi> Dataset versioning can be moved to the "archiving/preservation" challenge
Ghislain Atemezing: Dataset versioning can be moved to the "archiving/preservation" challenge ←
15:23:57 <PhilA> laufer: if a common voc is not used, it's not common
Carlos Laufer: if a common voc is not used, it's not common ←
15:23:58 <markharrison> q+ to say that definitions in common vocabularies need to be unambiguous in order to be useful - specific example of nutritional info in schema.org - does not even specify the reference unit (e.g. per 100g / per serving / per pack / per ton? - Who knows?!)
Mark Harrison: q+ to say that definitions in common vocabularies need to be unambiguous in order to be useful - specific example of nutritional info in schema.org - does not even specify the reference unit (e.g. per 100g / per serving / per pack / per ton? - Who knows?!) ←
15:24:48 <PhilA> carlosIglesias: exemple of reference vocs required by law in specific countries
Carlos Iglesias: exemple of reference vocs required by law in specific countries ←
15:24:59 <PhilA> ... these should be open with others
... these should be open with others ←
15:25:16 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> is ISO standards shared in an open way?
Joao Almeida: is ISO standards shared in an open way? ←
15:25:20 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> you have to pay to access them!
Joao Almeida: you have to pay to access them! ←
15:25:30 <HadleyBeeman> q+
Hadley Beeman: q+ ←
15:25:35 <PhilA> deirdrelee: so proposal is to share reference vocs in an open way
Deirdre Lee: so proposal is to share reference vocs in an open way ←
15:26:04 <PhilA> mark: definition of reference vocs need to be unambiguous to be useful
Mark Harrison: definition of reference vocs need to be unambiguous to be useful ←
15:26:11 <gatemezi> but what about licensing issues in vocabs?
Ghislain Atemezing: but what about licensing issues in vocabs? ←
15:26:23 <HadleyBeeman> @gatemezi: what about them?
Hadley Beeman: @gatemezi: what about them? ←
15:26:32 <PhilA> ... pointing out deficiences in definition
... pointing out deficiences in definition ←
15:26:41 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> (licenses will come later in the discussion)
Joao Almeida: (licenses will come later in the discussion) ←
15:26:54 <ericstephan> Open and free are two different things aren't they?
Eric Stephan: Open and free are two different things aren't they? ←
15:27:08 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> markharrison makes an important point about the coventions used to produce data
Joao Almeida: markharrison makes an important point about the conventions used to produce data ←
15:27:17 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> s/coventions/conventions
15:27:18 <deirdrelee> ericstephan +1
Deirdre Lee: ericstephan +1 ←
15:27:27 <PhilA> PhilA + markharrison: tradeoff between broad and specific
PhilA + markharrison: tradeoff between broad and specific ←
15:28:00 <gatemezi> HadleyBeeman: some vocabs come for e.g. in apache license..others with open license.. what happen when you reuse terms with such different vocabs?
Hadley Beeman: some vocabs come for e.g. in apache license..others with open license.. what happen when you reuse terms with such different vocabs? [ Scribe Assist by Ghislain Atemezing ] ←
15:28:03 <PhilA> ... broade can be uselessly generic
... broade can be uselessly generic ←
15:28:18 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Again, I am sorry to nag you guys with this but: "Data must be produced using conventions that enable the intended audience to extract its meaning" addresses precision/lack of ambiguity
Joao Almeida: Again, I am sorry to nag you guys with this but: "Data must be produced using conventions that enable the intended audience to extract its meaning" addresses precision/lack of ambiguity ←
15:28:24 <PhilA> markharrison: developing vocs should be part of the web, with feedback mechanims
Mark Harrison: developing vocs should be part of the web, with feedback mechanims ←
15:28:41 <HadleyBeeman> ack me
Hadley Beeman: ack me ←
15:28:44 <HadleyBeeman> ack mark
Hadley Beeman: ack mark ←
15:28:44 <Zakim> markharrison, you wanted to say that definitions in common vocabularies need to be unambiguous in order to be useful - specific example of nutritional info in schema.org - does not
Zakim IRC Bot: markharrison, you wanted to say that definitions in common vocabularies need to be unambiguous in order to be useful - specific example of nutritional info in schema.org - does not ←
15:28:47 <Zakim> ... even specify the reference unit (e.g. per 100g / per serving / per pack / per ton? - Who knows?!)
Zakim IRC Bot: ... even specify the reference unit (e.g. per 100g / per serving / per pack / per ton? - Who knows?!) ←
15:31:05 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, Andy Mabbett is a guest
Hadley Beeman: zakim, Andy Mabbett is a guest ←
15:31:05 <Zakim> I don't understand 'Andy Mabbett is a guest', HadleyBeeman
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'Andy Mabbett is a guest', HadleyBeeman ←
15:31:51 <PhilA> [group discussing the wording of proposal]
[group discussing the wording of proposal] ←
15:31:59 <deirdrelee> option1 - If possible, reuse existing reference vocabularies. If not available or suitable, try to (a) extend existing vocabularies, (b) suggest to industry consortium to create a vocabulary, or (c) create your own
Deirdre Lee: option1 - If possible, reuse existing reference vocabularies. If not available or suitable, try to (a) extend existing vocabularies, (b) suggest to industry consortium to create a vocabulary, or (c) create your own ←
15:32:12 <antoine> Guest:Andy Mabbett
15:32:30 <gatemezi> q+
Ghislain Atemezing: q+ ←
15:32:36 <antoine> present+ Andy Mabbett
Antoine Isaac: present+ Andy Mabbett ←
15:32:52 <PhilA> deirdrelee: happy with ' industry consortia' ?
Deirdre Lee: happy with ' industry consortia' ? ←
15:33:11 <PhilA> markharrison: we need a mechanism for identifying relevant vocs
Mark Harrison: we need a mechanism for identifying relevant vocs ←
15:33:17 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> (b) could be: create new vocabulary in a cooperative setting (such as industry consortia, standards body)
Joao Almeida: (b) could be: create new vocabulary in a cooperative setting (such as industry consortia, standards body) ←
15:33:21 <PhilA> ... e.g. Linked Open vocabularies
... e.g. Linked Open vocabularies ←
15:33:44 <PhilA> ... but have we got soem process for defining a new voc?
... but have we got some process for defining a new voc? ←
15:33:58 <PhilA> s/soem/some
15:34:19 <PhilA> PhilA: there is the WebSchemas group
Phil Archer: there is the WebSchemas group ←
15:34:38 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←
15:34:40 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
15:34:44 <gatemezi> q+ to ask what happen if you have a standard in UML standardized by ISO 191xx. and want to use it? Should you create it by your own? or wait for ISO 191XXX?
Ghislain Atemezing: q+ to ask what happen if you have a standard in UML standardized by ISO 191xx. and want to use it? Should you create it by your own? or wait for ISO 191XXX? ←
15:34:45 <PhilA> .... but this is turning into a chapter, not a single requirement
.... but this is turning into a chapter, not a single requirement ←
15:34:58 <HadleyBeeman> ack gate
Hadley Beeman: ack gate ←
15:34:58 <Zakim> gatemezi, you wanted to ask what happen if you have a standard in UML standardized by ISO 191xx. and want to use it? Should you create it by your own? or wait for ISO 191XXX?
Zakim IRC Bot: gatemezi, you wanted to ask what happen if you have a standard in UML standardized by ISO 191xx. and want to use it? Should you create it by your own? or wait for ISO 191XXX? ←
15:35:14 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> PhiA is right, this discussion is too detailed
Joao Almeida: PhilA is right, this discussion is too detailed ←
15:35:31 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> s/PhiA/PhilA/
15:35:33 <PhilA> gatemezi: when a standard is ISO, it is in PDF
Ghislain Atemezing: when a standard is ISO, it is in PDF ←
15:35:44 <PhilA> [???]
[???] ←
15:36:13 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: deirdrelee, BernadetteLoscio, what do you need from us at that point?
Hadley Beeman: deirdrelee, BernadetteLoscio, what do you need from us at that point? ←
15:36:22 <PhilA> ... we're entering into details
... we're entering into details ←
15:36:28 <HadleyBeeman> ack bern
Hadley Beeman: ack bern ←
15:36:43 <deirdrelee> option2 - Existing reference vocabularies should be reused where possible
Deirdre Lee: option2 - Existing reference vocabularies should be reused where possible ←
15:37:00 <markharrison> +1 to JoaoPauloAlmeida (b) - create new vocabulary in cooperative setting (where a vocabulary 'gap' exists)
Mark Harrison: +1 to JoaoPauloAlmeida (b) - create new vocabulary in cooperative setting (where a vocabulary 'gap' exists) ←
15:37:19 <PhilA> BernadetteLoscio: it relates to using standardized, general vocs
Bernadette Farias Loscio: it relates to using standardized, general vocs ←
15:37:26 <PhilA> PhilA: much is done already
Phil Archer: much is done already ←
15:37:37 <PhilA> ... for the metadata
... for the metadata ←
15:38:21 <PhilA> deirdrelee: we didn't have a specific requirement for standardized
Deirdre Lee: we didn't have a specific requirement for standardized ←
15:38:38 <PhilA> BernadetteLoscio: what is the difference between standardized and ref vocs?
Bernadette Farias Loscio: what is the difference between standardized and ref vocs? ←
15:38:51 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: standardized is a subset of reference
Hadley Beeman: standardized is a subset of reference ←
15:39:38 <PhilA> laufer: standard implies process
Carlos Laufer: standard implies process ←
15:39:59 <ericstephan> convention might be better
Eric Stephan: convention might be better ←
15:40:06 <markharrison> PhilA mentioned public-vocabs@w3.org as a place to ask - and possibly by pointed to an existing relevant vocabulary (by users on that mailing list). Also mentioned Linked Open Vocabularies http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/
Mark Harrison: PhilA mentioned public-vocabs@w3.org as a place to ask - and possibly by pointed to an existing relevant vocabulary (by users on that mailing list). Also mentioned Linked Open Vocabularies http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/ ←
15:40:19 <HadleyBeeman> +1 to option 2
Hadley Beeman: +1 to option 2 ←
15:40:20 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: Existing reference vocabularies should be reused where possible
PROPOSED: Existing reference vocabularies should be reused where possible ←
15:40:22 <HadleyBeeman> +1
Hadley Beeman: +1 ←
15:40:24 <yaso> +1
Yaso Córdova: +1 ←
15:40:24 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1
Joao Almeida: +1 ←
15:40:26 <Ig_Bittencourt_> +!
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +! ←
15:40:26 <markharrison> +1
Mark Harrison: +1 ←
15:40:27 <gatemezi> +1
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 ←
15:40:28 <Ig_Bittencourt_> +1
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 ←
15:40:29 <laufer> +1
Carlos Laufer: +1 ←
15:40:31 <adrianov> +1
Adriano Veloso: +1 ←
15:40:32 <newton> +
Newton Calegari: + ←
15:40:32 <ericstephan> +1
Eric Stephan: +1 ←
15:40:33 <BernadetteLoscio> +1
Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←
15:40:34 <newton> +1
Newton Calegari: +1 ←
15:40:36 <PhilA> +1
+1 ←
15:40:37 <antoine> +1
Antoine Isaac: +1 ←
15:40:37 <jeremy> +1
Jeremy Debattista: +1 ←
15:40:40 <Vagner_Br_> +1
Vagner Diniz: +1 ←
15:40:52 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim requires machine readable votes
Joao Almeida: Zakim requires machine readable votes ←
15:40:56 <deirdrelee> RESOLVED: Existing reference vocabularies should be reused where possible
RESOLVED: Existing reference vocabularies should be reused where possible ←
15:41:28 <deirdrelee> option 3: If refernce vocabularies not available or suitable, try to (a) extend existing vocabularies, (b) suggest to industry consortium to create a vocabulary, or (c) create your own
Deirdre Lee: option 3: If refernce vocabularies not available or suitable, try to (a) extend existing vocabularies, (b) suggest to industry consortium to create a vocabulary, or (c) create your own ←
15:41:47 <HadleyBeeman> q+
Hadley Beeman: q+ ←
15:41:58 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> let's leave the detail for later?
Joao Almeida: let's leave the detail for later? ←
15:42:05 <gatemezi> +1
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 ←
15:42:17 <gatemezi> ..to JoaoPauloAlmeida proposal
Ghislain Atemezing: ..to JoaoPauloAlmeida proposal ←
15:42:18 <CarlosIglesias> q+ to say that 3 is just part of the description of 2
Carlos Iglesias: q+ to say that 3 is just part of the description of 2 ←
15:42:18 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: I have an issue with industry. academic consortia could be useful in some cases
Hadley Beeman: I have an issue with industry. academic consortia could be useful in some cases ←
15:42:25 <HadleyBeeman> ack me
Hadley Beeman: ack me ←
15:42:31 <HadleyBeeman> ack carl
Hadley Beeman: ack carl ←
15:42:31 <Zakim> CarlosIglesias, you wanted to say that 3 is just part of the description of 2
Zakim IRC Bot: CarlosIglesias, you wanted to say that 3 is just part of the description of 2 ←
15:42:55 <PhilA> carlosIglesias: option 3 reads like a description of option 2 rather than a best practice of its own
Carlos Iglesias: option 3 reads like a description of option 2 rather than a best practice of its own ←
15:42:56 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida
Zakim IRC Bot: -JoaoPauloAlmeida ←
15:43:12 <markharrison> deirdrelee: Please modify (b) to: create a vocabulary in a cooperative setting
Deirdre Lee: Please modify (b) to: create a vocabulary in a cooperative setting [ Scribe Assist by Mark Harrison ] ←
15:43:17 <deirdrelee> add to bp notes: If refernce vocabularies not available or suitable, try to (a) extend existing vocabularies, (b) suggest to cooperative setting to create a vocabulary, or (c) create your own
Deirdre Lee: add to bp notes: If refernce vocabularies not available or suitable, try to (a) extend existing vocabularies, (b) suggest to cooperative setting to create a vocabulary, or (c) create your own ←
15:43:36 <deirdrelee> option4 - Reference vocabularies should be shared in an open way
Deirdre Lee: option4 - Reference vocabularies should be shared in an open way ←
15:43:45 <PhilA> deirdrelee: reference vocabularies should be shared in an open way
Deirdre Lee: reference vocabularies should be shared in an open way ←
15:44:00 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> I am trying to get back but Zakim says "this code is not valid"
Joao Almeida: I am trying to get back but Zakim says "this code is not valid" ←
15:44:09 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: if we're not building them, it's out of scope
Hadley Beeman: if we're not building them, it's out of scope ←
15:44:19 <antoine> zakim, room for 4?
Antoine Isaac: zakim, room for 4? ←
15:44:20 <Zakim> ok, antoine; conference Team_(dwbp)15:44Z scheduled with code 3927 (DWBP) for 60 minutes until 1644Z
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, antoine; conference Team_(dwbp)15:44Z scheduled with code 3927 (DWBP) for 60 minutes until 1644Z ←
15:44:25 <yaso> or maybe “make it available” instead of “shared”
Yaso Córdova: or maybe “make it available” instead of “shared” ←
15:44:56 <antoine> try that joaopaulo
Antoine Isaac: try that joaopaulo ←
15:45:11 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: ' you' is who?
Hadley Beeman: ' you' is who? ←
15:45:20 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> antoine, Zakim still does not let me in
Joao Almeida: antoine, Zakim still does not let me in ←
15:45:38 <yaso> q+
Yaso Córdova: q+ ←
15:45:46 <PhilA> laufer: can a vocabulary be copyrighted?
Carlos Laufer: can a vocabulary be copyrighted? ←
15:45:49 <PhilA> CarlosIglesias: yes
Carlos Iglesias: yes ←
15:46:07 <PhilA> ... you need to pay to access
... you need to pay to access ←
15:46:41 <PhilA> PhilA: W3C publishes royalty-free
Phil Archer: W3C publishes royalty-free ←
15:47:16 <PhilA> ???: think of creative commons licenses
Andy Mabbett: think of creative commons licenses ←
15:47:19 <antoine> zakim, code?
Antoine Isaac: zakim, code? ←
15:47:19 <Zakim> the conference code is 3927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), antoine
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), antoine ←
15:47:24 <PhilA> ... possibility of derivates, etc
... possibility of derivates, etc ←
15:47:29 <HadleyBeeman> s/???/AndyMabbett
15:47:36 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> I am using the right code but "this code is not valid"
Joao Almeida: I am using the right code but "this code is not valid" ←
15:47:42 <markharrison> CC-BY-SA licence mentioned
Mark Harrison: CC-BY-SA licence mentioned ←
15:48:29 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: should we split?
Hadley Beeman: should we split? ←
15:48:46 <PhilA> yaso: if we don't split it will be hard to reach objectives
Yaso Córdova: if we don't split it will be hard to reach objectives ←
15:49:15 <PhilA> BernadetteLoscio: we need to continue challenges anyway
Bernadette Farias Loscio: we need to continue challenges anyway ←
15:49:25 <PhilA> yaso: do we have enough use cases?
Yaso Córdova: do we have enough use cases? ←
15:49:25 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> hang out is gone
Joao Almeida: hang out is gone ←
15:49:37 <PhilA> deirdrelee: we have enough towork with now, we can add later if needed
Deirdre Lee: we have enough towork with now, we can add later if needed ←
15:49:45 <HadleyBeeman> Sorry, Joaopaulo — we have run out of battery
Hadley Beeman: Sorry, Joaopaulo — we have run out of battery ←
15:49:56 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA is fixing it now
Hadley Beeman: PhilA is fixing it now ←
15:49:59 <gatemezi> deirdrelee: are you there for the hangout?
Deirdre Lee: are you there for the hangout? [ Scribe Assist by Ghislain Atemezing ] ←
15:50:02 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> ok, I wonder why I can't back on Zakim
Joao Almeida: ok, I wonder why I can't back on Zakim ←
15:50:13 <ericstephan> We may not know if we have enough use cases until we come to agreement on challenges....just a thought
Eric Stephan: We may not know if we have enough use cases until we come to agreement on challenges....just a thought ←
15:50:43 <deirdrelee> Sorry gatemezi, I'll plug you back in in a minute
Deirdre Lee: Sorry gatemezi, I'll plug you back in in a minute ←
15:50:45 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman, deirdrelee, BernadetteLoscio: point on reference vocs need more discussion
HadleyBeeman, deirdrelee, BernadetteLoscio: point on reference vocs need more discussion ←
15:51:32 <PhilA> zakim, room for 4?
zakim, room for 4? ←
15:51:34 <Zakim> sorry, PhilA; could not schedule an adhoc conference; passcode overlap; if you do not have a fixed code you may try again
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, PhilA; could not schedule an adhoc conference; passcode overlap; if you do not have a fixed code you may try again ←
15:51:51 <markharrison> opendefinition.org
Mark Harrison: opendefinition.org ←
15:52:17 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: Reference vocabularies should be shared in an Open way
PROPOSED: Reference vocabularies should be shared in an Open way ←
15:52:21 <HadleyBeeman> +1
Hadley Beeman: +1 ←
15:52:27 <ericstephan> +1
Eric Stephan: +1 ←
15:52:30 <PhilA> +1
+1 ←
15:52:30 <BernadetteLoscio> +1
Bernadette Farias Loscio: +1 ←
15:52:32 <Ig_Bittencourt_> +1
Ig Bittencourt Santana Pinto: +1 ←
15:52:33 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Will that exclude ISO?
Joao Almeida: Will that exclude ISO? ←
15:52:34 <adrianov> +1
Adriano Veloso: +1 ←
15:52:34 <yaso> +1
Yaso Córdova: +1 ←
15:52:35 <CarlosIglesias> +1
Carlos Iglesias: +1 ←
15:52:35 <antoine> +1
Antoine Isaac: +1 ←
15:52:40 <gatemezi> +1
Ghislain Atemezing: +1 ←
15:52:42 <newton> +1
Newton Calegari: +1 ←
15:52:43 <markharrison> +1
Mark Harrison: +1 ←
15:52:45 <fkyanai> +1
Flavio Yanai: +1 ←
15:52:47 <laufer> +1
Carlos Laufer: +1 ←
15:52:56 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: we'll have to sort out what the definition of ' open' is
Hadley Beeman: we'll have to sort out what the definition of ' open' is ←
15:53:13 <ericstephan> The climate community and OGC shares based on ISO in an open way today
Eric Stephan: The climate community and OGC shares based on ISO in an open way today ←
15:53:18 <nathalia_> +1
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: +1 ←
15:53:24 <markharrison> royalty-free for use, freely available?
Mark Harrison: royalty-free for use, freely available? ←
15:53:29 <Caroline_> +1
Caroline Burle: +1 ←
15:53:39 <PhilA> PhilA: it would be difficult to exclude ISO
Phil Archer: it would be difficult to exclude ISO ←
15:54:05 <ericstephan> Agreed PhilA
Eric Stephan: Agreed PhilA ←
15:54:07 <deirdrelee> ACCEPTED: Reference vocabularies should be shared in an Open way
RESOLVED: Reference vocabularies should be shared in an Open way ←
15:54:08 <Vagner_Br_> +1
Vagner Diniz: +1 ←
15:54:20 <deirdrelee> Note, this needs further exploration of definition of Open
Deirdre Lee: Note, this needs further exploration of definition of Open ←
15:55:14 <PhilA> PhilA: it would be difficult to put in a document ' don't use ISO standards'
Phil Archer: it would be difficult to put in a document ' don't use ISO standards' ←
15:55:31 <gatemezi> ok, I understand
Ghislain Atemezing: ok, I understand ←
15:56:01 <PhilA> markharrison: we need to define better the attributes we're expecting: whether the voc is royalty-free, etc...
Mark Harrison: we need to define better the attributes we're expecting: whether the voc is royalty-free, etc... ←
15:56:18 <gatemezi> But we can say things that can help them "opening their UML diagrams"
Ghislain Atemezing: But we can say things that can help them "opening their UML diagrams" ←
15:56:38 <PhilA> PhilA: as long as it is freely available, it should be ok
Phil Archer: as long as it is freely available, it should be ok ←
15:56:49 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: session to be continued tomorro
Hadley Beeman: session to be continued tomorrow ←
15:56:55 <PhilA> s/tomorro/tomorrow
15:57:07 <ericstephan> Unfortunately I have to run...see you all tomorrow.
Eric Stephan: Unfortunately I have to run...see you all tomorrow. ←
15:57:21 <gatemezi> See you ericstephan
Ghislain Atemezing: See you ericstephan ←
15:57:23 <Zakim> -ericstephan
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericstephan ←
15:57:37 <deirdrelee> good night/morning ericstephan!
Deirdre Lee: good night/morning ericstephan! ←
15:57:40 <PhilA> scribe: adrianov
(Scribe set to Adriano Veloso)
15:57:48 <ericstephan> Now to start my work day....ahhhh
Eric Stephan: Now to start my work day....ahhhh ←
15:58:07 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> HadleyBeeman, so tomorrow at 9am there will be a joint discussion session to define requirements?
Joao Almeida: HadleyBeeman, so tomorrow at 9am there will be a joint discussion session to define requirements? ←
15:58:58 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> thanks, PhilA, it will be 5am on my side, I will do my best
Joao Almeida: thanks, PhilA, it will be 5am on my side, I will do my best ←
15:59:10 <PhilA> ?me if not I'll drop zakim
Phil Archer: ?me if not I'll drop zakim ←
16:00:57 <Zakim> -Steve
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steve ←
16:01:57 <nathalia_> bye
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: bye ←
16:02:05 <nathalia_> see you tomorrow
Nathalia Sautchuk Patrício: see you tomorrow ←
16:03:09 <Zakim> -gatemezi
Zakim IRC Bot: -gatemezi ←
16:03:10 <Zakim> Team_(dwbp)13:01Z has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(dwbp)13:01Z has ended ←
16:03:10 <Zakim> Attendees were JoaoPauloAlmeida, gatemezi, ericstephan, bernadetteloscio, hadleybeeman, vagner_br, carlosiglesias, deirdrelee, Caroline_, Ig_Bittencourt, fkyanai, adrianov, newton,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were JoaoPauloAlmeida, gatemezi, ericstephan, bernadetteloscio, hadleybeeman, vagner_br, carlosiglesias, deirdrelee, Caroline_, Ig_Bittencourt, fkyanai, adrianov, newton, ←
16:03:10 <Zakim> ... antoine, laufer, markharrison, JohnGoodwin, PhilA, Rick, JohnG, Mark, Harrison, Vagner, Caroline, Ig, Bernadette, Flavio, PhilT, Adriano, Carlos, Deirdre, Yaso, Hadley, Jeremy,
Zakim IRC Bot: ... antoine, laufer, markharrison, JohnGoodwin, PhilA, Rick, JohnG, Mark, Harrison, Vagner, Caroline, Ig, Bernadette, Flavio, PhilT, Adriano, Carlos, Deirdre, Yaso, Hadley, Jeremy, ←
16:03:11 <Zakim> ... Debattista, adler1
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Debattista, adler1 ←
16:05:42 <adrianov> AM (Andy Mabbett) starts his talk on OpenStreetMap
AM (Andy Mabbett) starts his talk on OpenStreetMap ←
16:06:33 <PhilA> rrsagent, draft minutes
Phil Archer: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:06:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA ←
16:08:31 <adrianov> AM argued the group about how many of us know OSM (open street map)
AM argued the group about how many of us know OSM (open street map) ←
16:08:50 <PhilA> AM: is a database of Points of Interest
Andy Mabbett: is a database of Points of Interest [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
16:09:56 <adrianov> AM, points of interest may correspond to different entity types
AM, points of interest may correspond to different entity types ←
16:10:29 <adrianov> AM: points of interest may correspondo to different entity types
Andy Mabbett: points of interest may correspondo to different entity types ←
16:10:38 <PhilA> AM: OSM is more detailed than Google maps, and more up to date
Andy Mabbett: OSM is more detailed than Google maps, and more up to date [ Scribe Assist by Phil Archer ] ←
16:11:37 <adrianov> AM: stating the differences between OSM and GoogleMaps
Andy Mabbett: stating the differences between OSM and GoogleMaps ←
16:13:13 <adrianov> AM: interesting features of OSM, such as gritting maps
Andy Mabbett: interesting features of OSM, such as gritting maps ←
16:14:42 <adrianov> AM: showing different entities in london area, such as pubs, rivers, streets
Andy Mabbett: showing different entities in Birmingham area, such as pubs, rivers, streets ←
16:15:06 <HadleyBeeman> s/london/Birmingham
16:15:40 <adrianov> tks HadleyBeeman
tks HadleyBeeman ←
16:15:45 <HadleyBeeman> no problem :)
Hadley Beeman: no problem :) ←
16:17:18 <adrianov> AM: Maperative is used to render the maps
Andy Mabbett: Maperative is used to render the maps ←
16:17:39 <adrianov> AM: another possibility is Leaflet
Andy Mabbett: another possibility is Leaflet ←
16:18:19 <adrianov> AM: another possible tool is Mapbox
Andy Mabbett: another possible tool is Mapbox ←
16:18:57 <adrianov> AM: Geofabrik is used to compare different maps
Andy Mabbett: Geofabrik is used to compare different maps ←
16:21:57 <adrianov> AM: OSM may provide information about specific points of interest (i.e., using wikipedia data)
Andy Mabbett: OSM may provide information about specific points of interest (i.e., using wikipedia data) ←
16:22:24 <PhilA> Interesting that OSM wants to make its pages machine readable. RDFa to the rescue perhaps
Phil Archer: Interesting that OSM wants to make its pages machine readable. RDFa to the rescue perhaps ←
16:23:21 <PhilA> And the CSVW stuff could be interesting for OSM too
Phil Archer: And the CSVW stuff could be interesting for OSM too ←
16:25:03 <adrianov> AM: discussion on the importance of how information is provided to the user
Andy Mabbett: discussion on the importance of how information is provided to the user ←
16:26:06 <Zakim> Team_(dwbp)15:44Z has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(dwbp)15:44Z has now started ←
16:26:13 <Zakim> +MakxDekkers
Zakim IRC Bot: +MakxDekkers ←
16:26:27 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers
Zakim IRC Bot: -MakxDekkers ←
16:26:28 <Zakim> Team_(dwbp)15:44Z has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(dwbp)15:44Z has ended ←
16:26:28 <Zakim> Attendees were MakxDekkers
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were MakxDekkers ←
16:26:39 <adrianov> AM: OSM does not store the entire content, but is able to rebuild the corresponding URL
Andy Mabbett: OSM does not store the entire content, but is able to rebuild the corresponding URL ←
16:27:26 <adrianov> PhilA: suggests different approaches
Phil Archer: suggests different approaches ←
16:28:30 <Zakim> Team_(dwbp)15:44Z has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(dwbp)15:44Z has now started ←
16:28:37 <Zakim> +MakxDekkers
Zakim IRC Bot: +MakxDekkers ←
16:29:26 <Zakim> -MakxDekkers
Zakim IRC Bot: -MakxDekkers ←
16:29:27 <Zakim> Team_(dwbp)15:44Z has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(dwbp)15:44Z has ended ←
16:29:27 <Zakim> Attendees were MakxDekkers
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were MakxDekkers ←
16:29:40 <adrianov> AM: some references may be still undefined, either because they are new or because it does not attrack the interest of the community
Andy Mabbett: some references may be still undefined, either because they are new or because it does not attrack the interest of the community ←
16:30:45 <adrianov> AM: possibility to add values in order to solve undefined reference cases
Andy Mabbett: possibility to add values in order to solve undefined reference cases ←
16:33:02 <adrianov> AM: OSM data is built in a way that facilitates reuse
Andy Mabbett: OSM data is built in a way that facilitates reuse ←
16:33:58 <PhilA> Note to self - need to tell OSM about JSON-LD, i.e. easily add namespaces to terms
Phil Archer: Note to self - need to tell OSM about JSON-LD, i.e. easily add namespaces to terms ←
16:34:54 <adrianov> AM: examples on how data can be linked with other sources, such as wikipedia
Andy Mabbett: examples on how data can be linked with other sources, such as wikipedia ←
16:36:00 <adrianov> AM: how to link an information in your database to something in OSM?
Andy Mabbett: how to link an information in your database to something in OSM? ←
16:38:49 <adrianov> AM: discussing data consistency problems in OSM
Andy Mabbett: discussing data consistency problems in OSM ←
16:41:57 <adrianov> AM: discussing problems in OSM due to fuzzy matches
Andy Mabbett: discussing problems in OSM due to fuzzy matches ←
16:42:59 <adrianov> AM: tags may be URIs or parts that compose URIs
Andy Mabbett: tags may be URIs or parts that compose URIs ←
16:43:42 <adrianov> AM: Andy is finishing his presentation
Andy Mabbett: Andy is finishing his presentation ←
16:44:05 <antoine> q?
Antoine Isaac: q? ←
16:44:11 <laufer> q+
Carlos Laufer: q+ ←
16:45:58 <PhilA> ack laufer
Phil Archer: ack laufer ←
16:46:03 <adrianov> PhilA: how hard it is to say the confidence associated with a specific point?
Phil Archer: how hard it is to say the confidence associated with a specific point? ←
16:46:30 <adrianov> laufer: how data is accessed?
Carlos Laufer: how data is accessed? ←
16:46:46 <adrianov> AM: there are APIs to use
Andy Mabbett: there are APIs to use ←
16:47:03 <markharrison> q+ to ask if there are plans for a SPARQL endpoint or GeoSPARQL endpoint?
Mark Harrison: q+ to ask if there are plans for a SPARQL endpoint or GeoSPARQL endpoint? ←
16:47:15 <adrianov> laufer: who defines the tags? community?
Carlos Laufer: who defines the tags? community? ←
16:47:42 <antoine> q+ to ask about dev doc
Antoine Isaac: q+ to ask about dev doc ←
16:47:43 <adrianov> AM: everybody can define a tag. Andy clarifies this process
Andy Mabbett: everybody can define a tag. Andy clarifies this process ←
16:48:07 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q+ ←
16:49:04 <adrianov> AM: the existing vocabulary has emmerged organically
Andy Mabbett: the existing vocabulary has emmerged organically ←
16:49:16 <PhilA> q+ to talk about JSON-LD
Phil Archer: q+ to talk about JSON-LD ←
16:49:24 <HadleyBeeman> q
Hadley Beeman: q ←
16:49:26 <HadleyBeeman> q?
Hadley Beeman: q? ←
16:49:31 <BernadetteLoscio> q-
Bernadette Farias Loscio: q- ←
16:50:44 <adrianov> AM: discussing the difficulties in acquiring a perfect vocabulary. Alternatively, a community-based vocabulary may be a good solution
Andy Mabbett: discussing the difficulties in acquiring a perfect vocabulary. Alternatively, a community-based vocabulary may be a good solution ←
16:50:44 <PhilA> ack mar
Phil Archer: ack mar ←
16:50:44 <Zakim> markharrison, you wanted to ask if there are plans for a SPARQL endpoint or GeoSPARQL endpoint?
Zakim IRC Bot: markharrison, you wanted to ask if there are plans for a SPARQL endpoint or GeoSPARQL endpoint? ←
16:50:52 <HadleyBeeman> ack mark
Hadley Beeman: ack mark ←
16:51:05 <PhilA> ack ant
Phil Archer: ack ant ←
16:51:05 <Zakim> antoine, you wanted to ask about dev doc
Zakim IRC Bot: antoine, you wanted to ask about dev doc ←
16:51:28 <deirdrelee> q+
Deirdre Lee: q+ ←
16:52:22 <markharrison> PhilA - I was thinking that with a DBpedia-like effort on OSM data, they could get to a stage where they could provide a SPARQL endpoint
Mark Harrison: PhilA - I was thinking that with a DBpedia-like effort on OSM data, they could get to a stage where they could provide a SPARQL endpoint ←
16:52:39 <PhilA> Agreed mark
Phil Archer: Agreed mark ←
16:52:57 <HadleyBeeman> ack phil
Hadley Beeman: ack phil ←
16:52:57 <Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to talk about JSON-LD
Zakim IRC Bot: PhilA, you wanted to talk about JSON-LD ←
16:53:15 <adrianov> PhilA: lots of things could be done
Phil Archer: lots of things could be done ←
16:53:47 <adrianov> PhilA: suggests using JsonLD instead of Json
Phil Archer: suggests using JsonLD instead of Json ←
16:55:22 <adrianov> AM: not aware of DBpedia effort on OSM data
Andy Mabbett: not aware of DBpedia effort on OSM data ←
16:55:27 <PhilA> ack deirdrelee
Phil Archer: ack deirdrelee ←
16:55:28 <HadleyBeeman> ack deirdre
Hadley Beeman: ack deirdre ←
16:55:42 <markharrison> PhilA mentioned http://geoknow.eu/
Mark Harrison: PhilA mentioned http://geoknow.eu/ ←
16:57:06 <PhilA> rrsagent, draft minutes
Phil Archer: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:57:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA ←
16:59:25 <PhilA> rrsagent, generate minutes
Phil Archer: rrsagent, generate minutes ←
16:59:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/31-dwbp-minutes.html PhilA ←
16:59:56 <laufer> bye
Carlos Laufer: bye ←
17:00:03 <laufer> -laufer
Carlos Laufer: -laufer ←
Formatted by CommonScribe