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15:28:09 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/08-dpub-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/08-dpub-irc ←
15:28:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
15:28:13 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be dpub ←
15:28:13 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 32 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 32 minutes ←
15:28:14 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:28:14 <trackbot> Date: 08 December 2014
15:28:49 <ivan> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Dec/0001.html
15:28:54 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Dec/0001.html
Ivan Herman: ivan has changed the topic to: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Dec/0001.html ←
15:38:18 <ivan> Regrets: Madi
15:48:20 <ivan> Regrets+ David_Stroup
(No events recorded for 19 minutes)
Ivan Herman: Regrets+ David_Stroup ←
15:54:45 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 6 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started ←
15:54:52 <Zakim> +George_Kerscher
Zakim IRC Bot: +George_Kerscher ←
15:54:53 <Zakim> +[Safari]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[Safari] ←
15:55:12 <dkaplan3> zakim, [Safari] is me
Deborah Kaplan: zakim, [Safari] is me ←
15:55:12 <Zakim> +dkaplan3; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dkaplan3; got it ←
15:55:35 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:55:39 <Zakim> +clapierre
Zakim IRC Bot: +clapierre ←
15:56:21 <Zakim> +MikeMiller
Zakim IRC Bot: +MikeMiller ←
15:57:48 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
15:57:48 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:57:49 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:59:01 <Zakim> + +1.212.255.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.212.255.aaaa ←
15:59:25 <tzviya> zakim, aaaa is tzviya
Tzviya Siegman: zakim, aaaa is tzviya ←
15:59:25 <Zakim> +tzviya; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tzviya; got it ←
15:59:32 <Zakim> +Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc ←
15:59:49 <dauwhe> Zakim, aaaa has dauwhe
Dave Cramer: Zakim, aaaa has dauwhe ←
15:59:49 <Zakim> sorry, dauwhe, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, dauwhe, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa' ←
16:00:12 <Zakim> +Markus
Zakim IRC Bot: +Markus ←
16:00:20 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←
16:00:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see dkaplan3, George_Kerscher, [IPcaller], clapierre, MikeMiller, Ivan, tzviya, Luc, Markus
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see dkaplan3, George_Kerscher, [IPcaller], clapierre, MikeMiller, Ivan, tzviya, Luc, Markus ←
16:00:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see dauwhe, laudrain, mgylling, clapierre, AH_Miller, tzviya, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, fjh, astearns, iank__, liam, rego, mihnea_____, plinss, dkaplan3, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see dauwhe, laudrain, mgylling, clapierre, AH_Miller, tzviya, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, fjh, astearns, iank__, liam, rego, mihnea_____, plinss, dkaplan3, trackbot ←
16:01:14 <Zakim> +Vlad
Zakim IRC Bot: +Vlad ←
16:01:31 <mgylling> regrets: pkra, david stroup
16:02:07 <Zakim> +[Ugent]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[Ugent] ←
16:02:09 <Zakim> +Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: +Stearns ←
16:02:17 <bjdmeest> zakim, Ugent is me
Ben De Meester: zakim, Ugent is me ←
16:02:17 <Zakim> +bjdmeest; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bjdmeest; got it ←
16:02:25 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf
Zakim IRC Bot: +Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:02:27 <bjdmeest> Present+ Ben_De_Meester
Ben De Meester: Present+ Ben_De_Meester ←
16:02:52 <mgylling> Present+ Avneesh Singh (DAISY)
Markus Gylling: Present+ Avneesh Singh (DAISY) ←
16:03:12 <tzviya> zakim, pick a victim
Tzviya Siegman: zakim, pick a victim ←
16:03:12 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Stearns ←
16:03:22 <Zakim> +Thierry
Zakim IRC Bot: +Thierry ←
16:03:23 <Vlad> Apologies, I have a conflict and will have to disconnect in 1/2 hour
Vladimir Levantovsky: Apologies, I have a conflict and will have to disconnect in 1/2 hour ←
16:03:32 <tzviya> zakim, pick a victim
Tzviya Siegman: zakim, pick a victim ←
16:03:32 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Vlad
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Vlad ←
16:03:54 <tzviya> zakim, pick a victim
Tzviya Siegman: zakim, pick a victim ←
16:03:54 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Thierry
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Thierry ←
16:04:02 <tzviya> zakim, pick a victim
Tzviya Siegman: zakim, pick a victim ←
16:04:02 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Luc ←
16:04:22 <tzviya> zakim, pick a victim
Tzviya Siegman: zakim, pick a victim ←
16:04:22 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose dkaplan3
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose dkaplan3 ←
16:04:37 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
(Scribe set to Dave Cramer)
16:04:51 <Zakim> +vivien
Zakim IRC Bot: +vivien ←
16:05:14 <dauwhe> tzviya: we have some new people here today
Tzviya Siegman: we have some new people here today ←
16:06:11 <dauwhe> George: I'm president of IDPF and Secretary-General of DAISY
Scribe problem: the name 'George' is ambiguous. It could be any of: George Walkley George Kerscher . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown George: I'm president of IDPF and Secretary-General of DAISY ←
16:06:15 <dauwhe> ... working on epub issues
... working on epub issues ←
16:06:28 <dauwhe> Amnish: work for DAISY
Scribe problem: the name 'Avneesh' does not match any of the 85 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Avneesh: work for DAISY ←
16:06:39 <dauwhe> ... also work on EPUB
... also work on EPUB ←
16:06:43 <mgylling> s/Amnish/Avneesh/
16:06:53 <tzviya> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Meetings
Tzviya Siegman: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Meetings ←
16:06:54 <dauwhe> tzviya: review minutes from last week
Tzviya Siegman: review minutes from last week ←
16:06:59 <dauwhe> ... any comments?
... any comments? ←
16:07:01 <tzviya> http://www.w3.org/2014/11/24-dpub-minutes.html
Tzviya Siegman: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/24-dpub-minutes.html ←
16:07:03 <Zakim> + +1.347.633.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.347.633.aabb ←
16:07:06 <dauwhe> ... we also had short minutes for the first time
... we also had short minutes for the first time ←
16:07:24 <dauwhe> mgylling: we're doing short minutes until further notice?
Markus Gylling: we're doing short minutes until further notice? ←
16:07:31 <dauwhe> tzviya: yes. lots of good feedback.
Tzviya Siegman: yes. lots of good feedback. ←
16:07:51 <ivan> zakim, aabb is Julie
Ivan Herman: zakim, aabb is Julie ←
16:07:51 <Zakim> +Julie; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Julie; got it ←
16:07:53 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a] ←
16:08:02 <dauwhe> mgylling: Ivan has taken responsibility for short minutes?
Markus Gylling: Ivan has taken responsibility for short minutes? ←
16:08:04 <dauwhe> ivan: yes
Ivan Herman: yes ←
16:08:06 <fjh> zakim, ipcaller.a is me
Frederick Hirsch: zakim, ipcaller.a is me ←
16:08:06 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +fjh; got it ←
16:08:22 <dauwhe> tzviya: if anyone wants to do them, Ivan would graciously accept :)
Tzviya Siegman: if anyone wants to do them, Ivan would graciously accept :) ←
16:08:42 <dauwhe> tzviya: first item is to review list of digital publishing terms to present to PF
Tzviya Siegman: first item is to review list of digital publishing terms to present to PF ←
16:08:49 <dauwhe> ... at TPAC we met with PF
... at TPAC we met with PF ←
16:09:04 <dauwhe> ... about presenting a list of terms to put into an ARIA module
... about presenting a list of terms to put into an ARIA module ←
16:09:14 <dauwhe> ... so we can have a structural semantic vocab for DPUB
... so we can have a structural semantic vocab for DPUB ←
16:09:26 <dauwhe> ... Markus and I have worked through EPUB's vocab
... Markus and I have worked through EPUB's vocab ←
16:09:28 <tzviya> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wvlf5aahrZ5VVu03Dj8p7ne3ae02ALIg8hqTLIWeip4/edit#gid=0
Tzviya Siegman: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wvlf5aahrZ5VVu03Dj8p7ne3ae02ALIg8hqTLIWeip4/edit#gid=0 ←
16:09:41 <dauwhe> ... the goal is to add to this list as needed
... the goal is to add to this list as needed ←
16:09:55 <dauwhe> ... the definitions in this list will be cleaned up
... the definitions in this list will be cleaned up ←
16:10:07 <dauwhe> ... sorry... document is not yet public
... sorry... document is not yet public ←
16:11:45 <dauwhe> ... [working on making the document public]
... [working on making the document public] ←
16:13:02 <bjdmeest> this is the non-edit link (I think) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wvlf5aahrZ5VVu03Dj8p7ne3ae02ALIg8hqTLIWeip4/pubhtml
Ben De Meester: this is the non-edit link (I think) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wvlf5aahrZ5VVu03Dj8p7ne3ae02ALIg8hqTLIWeip4/pubhtml ←
16:13:58 <dauwhe> s/wizzard/wizard/
s/wizzard/wizard/ (warning: replacement failed) ←
16:14:08 <dauwhe> mgylling: this is a subset of epub structural semantic vocab
Markus Gylling: this is a subset of epub structural semantic vocab ←
16:14:19 <dauwhe> tzviya: we also have include/defer column here
Tzviya Siegman: we also have include/defer column here ←
16:14:26 <dauwhe> ... some we might want to remove
... some we might want to remove ←
16:14:34 <dauwhe> ... category may or may not be relevant
... category may or may not be relevant ←
16:14:48 <dauwhe> ... we'll need some additional description before presenting to ARIA
... we'll need some additional description before presenting to ARIA ←
16:15:03 <dauwhe> ... and we have a few notes about current relationships with ARIA
... and we have a few notes about current relationships with ARIA ←
16:15:10 <dauwhe> ... for example, around notes/note
... for example, around notes/note ←
16:15:25 <dauwhe> ... the existing list has 200 terms, this is less than 40
... the existing list has 200 terms, this is less than 40 ←
16:15:35 <dauwhe> ... next step is to clean up, clarify definitions
... next step is to clean up, clarify definitions ←
16:15:41 <dauwhe> ... then schedule meeting with PF
... then schedule meeting with PF ←
16:15:50 <dauwhe> ... try to get this into module of ARIA
... try to get this into module of ARIA ←
16:15:58 <dauwhe> ... and, as always, volunteers are welcome
... and, as always, volunteers are welcome ←
16:16:04 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
16:16:07 <dauwhe> ivan: still digesting
Ivan Herman: still digesting ←
16:16:31 <dauwhe> mgylling: for context, terms that have been excluded in this round
Markus Gylling: for context, terms that have been excluded in this round ←
16:16:38 <dauwhe> ... we expect to append to it in later cycles
... we expect to append to it in later cycles ←
16:16:51 <dauwhe> ... PF wants to set up a more agile process for adding to ARIA
... PF wants to set up a more agile process for adding to ARIA ←
16:17:00 <dauwhe> ... lots of terms are still in draft
... lots of terms are still in draft ←
16:17:08 <dauwhe> ... including edu terms, comic terms, etc
... including edu terms, comic terms, etc ←
16:17:14 <dauwhe> ... we elected to wait on those
... we elected to wait on those ←
16:17:27 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
16:17:33 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: are any of these draft status?
Bill Kasdorf: are any of these draft status? ←
16:17:37 <dauwhe> mgylling: I think only two
Markus Gylling: I think only two ←
16:17:47 <dauwhe> tzviya: two or three from the testing section
Tzviya Siegman: two or three from the testing section ←
16:17:51 <dauwhe> ... question and answer
... question and answer ←
16:18:03 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: none from magazine vocab?
Bill Kasdorf: none from magazine vocab? ←
16:18:05 <dauwhe> tzviya: no
Tzviya Siegman: no ←
16:18:14 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
16:18:20 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:18:28 <dauwhe> mgylling: should we talk about staffing of task force?
Markus Gylling: should we talk about staffing of task force? ←
16:18:33 <tzviya> ack ivan
Tzviya Siegman: ack ivan ←
16:19:03 <dauwhe> ivan: will these be used as values of role attribute?
Ivan Herman: will these be used as values of role attribute? ←
16:19:09 <dauwhe> ... if I look at "usage" column
... if I look at "usage" column ←
16:19:15 <tzviya> <dc:source>http://www.idpf.org/epub/vocab/structure/</source>
Tzviya Siegman: <dc:source>http://www.idpf.org/epub/vocab/structure/</source> ←
16:19:24 <dauwhe> ... do we want to make a restriction on which HTML element can be used for that specific value?
... do we want to make a restriction on which HTML element can be used for that specific value? ←
16:19:39 <dauwhe> mgylling: on which element the value is expected to occur?
Markus Gylling: on which element the value is expected to occur? ←
16:19:43 <dauwhe> ivan: allowed
Ivan Herman: allowed ←
16:19:59 <dauwhe> mgylling: we have epub definition of usage, which is recommended, not required
Markus Gylling: we have epub definition of usage, which is recommended, not required ←
16:20:11 <dauwhe> ... we need to ARIA-ify these
... we need to ARIA-ify these ←
16:20:25 <dauwhe> ... will be put in same framework as existing ARIA roles
... will be put in same framework as existing ARIA roles ←
16:20:52 <dauwhe> ... so we'll need to do same things ARIA already does for each term
... so we'll need to do same things ARIA already does for each term ←
16:20:59 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
16:21:00 <dauwhe> ivan: ARIA can define a restriction?
Ivan Herman: ARIA can define a restriction? ←
16:21:02 <dauwhe> mgylling: yes
Markus Gylling: yes ←
16:21:15 <dauwhe> ... HTML5 may also have restrictions
... HTML5 may also have restrictions ←
16:21:26 <dauwhe> ... right now we're working on the ARIA definitions
... right now we're working on the ARIA definitions ←
16:21:31 <dauwhe> ... looking for an example now...
... looking for an example now... ←
16:21:43 <dauwhe> tzviya: the glossary terms are a good example
Tzviya Siegman: the glossary terms are a good example ←
16:21:53 <dauwhe> ... <dl role="glossary">
... <dl role="glossary"> ←
16:22:13 <dauwhe> ... might restrict it to just that or might have <ul role="glossary">
... might restrict it to just that or might have <ul role="glossary"> ←
16:22:27 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
16:22:36 <dauwhe> ivan: I don't know all the possible restrictions PF can set
Ivan Herman: I don't know all the possible restrictions PF can set ←
16:22:58 <dauwhe> tzviya: it's not just sending a list to PF, we should have a task force with regular meetings
Tzviya Siegman: it's not just sending a list to PF, we should have a task force with regular meetings ←
16:23:15 <dauwhe> ... Markus and I will work on this, and we want volunteers to join us
... Markus and I will work on this, and we want volunteers to join us ←
16:23:27 <dauwhe> George: I've joined the PF list and am ready to participate
Scribe problem: the name 'George' is ambiguous. It could be any of: George Walkley George Kerscher . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown George: I've joined the PF list and am ready to participate ←
16:23:47 <dauwhe> mgylling: They'll want to know who will chair or co-chair this task force
Markus Gylling: They'll want to know who will chair or co-chair this task force ←
16:23:55 <dauwhe> ... if we could decide this today it would be good
... if we could decide this today it would be good ←
16:24:13 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: within the IG?
Bill Kasdorf: within the IG? ←
16:24:18 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
16:24:23 <dauwhe> mgylling: Joint task force between DPUB and PF
Markus Gylling: Joint task force between DPUB and PF ←
16:24:48 <dauwhe> ivan: at some point I did volunteer at TPAC to look at OWL-specific things
Ivan Herman: at some point I did volunteer at TPAC to look at OWL-specific things ←
16:25:39 <dauwhe> tzviya: I'm happy to help out
Tzviya Siegman: I'm happy to help out ←
16:25:55 <dauwhe> mgylling: initially we can propose Markus and Tzviya as co-chairs
Markus Gylling: initially we can propose Markus and Tzviya as co-chairs ←
16:26:09 <dauwhe> tzviya: and thank you George
Tzviya Siegman: and thank you George ←
16:26:18 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: yes
Bill Kasdorf: yes ←
16:26:18 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:26:34 <dauwhe> tzviya: any other questions about the progress of this task force?
Tzviya Siegman: any other questions about the progress of this task force? ←
16:26:40 <tzviya> ack ivan
Tzviya Siegman: ack ivan ←
16:26:55 <dauwhe> ivan: I want to understand whether we have a plan on the timing and the road ahead
Ivan Herman: I want to understand whether we have a plan on the timing and the road ahead ←
16:27:04 <dauwhe> ... where are the bottlenecks?
... where are the bottlenecks? ←
16:27:10 <dauwhe> tzviya: good question
Tzviya Siegman: good question ←
16:27:18 <dauwhe> ... we were the first big bottleneck
... we were the first big bottleneck ←
16:27:37 <dauwhe> ... next phase is setting up task force meetings
... next phase is setting up task force meetings ←
16:27:42 <dauwhe> ... holidays will complicate that
... holidays will complicate that ←
16:27:52 <dauwhe> ... next bottleneck will be agreeing on definitions
... next bottleneck will be agreeing on definitions ←
16:28:07 <dauwhe> mgylling: hard to predict how much time it will take to bless and publish this
Markus Gylling: hard to predict how much time it will take to bless and publish this ←
16:28:20 <dauwhe> ivan: I felt that IDPF already has the definitions for these terms
Ivan Herman: I felt that IDPF already has the definitions for these terms ←
16:28:26 <dauwhe> ... aren't they already there?
... aren't they already there? ←
16:28:34 <dauwhe> mgylling: they are our initial proposed definitions
Markus Gylling: they are our initial proposed definitions ←
16:28:43 <Zakim> -Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: -Stearns ←
16:28:51 <dauwhe> ... but as we move into new context there may be an evolution
... but as we move into new context there may be an evolution ←
16:28:59 <dauwhe> ivan: we do not start from scratch
Ivan Herman: we do not start from scratch ←
16:29:11 <dauwhe> tzviya: I'd like to get this to PF this week
Tzviya Siegman: I'd like to get this to PF this week ←
16:29:19 <dauwhe> ivan: their question will be
Ivan Herman: their question will be ←
16:29:29 <dauwhe> ... I don't know what you mean by SSV category
... I don't know what you mean by SSV category ←
16:29:44 <dauwhe> tzviya: I would like to get a cleaned-up version of this to PF this week
Tzviya Siegman: I would like to get a cleaned-up version of this to PF this week ←
16:29:52 <Vlad> sorry, have to disconnect now
Vladimir Levantovsky: sorry, have to disconnect now ←
16:29:57 <Zakim> -Vlad
Zakim IRC Bot: -Vlad ←
16:30:00 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
16:30:23 <dauwhe> tzviya: I'd like to have the task force meetings in December
Tzviya Siegman: I'd like to have the task force meetings in December ←
16:30:29 <Zakim> +Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: +Stearns ←
16:30:32 <dauwhe> ... want to get it moving this month
... want to get it moving this month ←
16:30:46 <dauwhe> ... we'll have something to present to PF this week
... we'll have something to present to PF this week ←
16:30:55 <dauwhe> ... we'll at least have a meeting scheduled soon
... we'll at least have a meeting scheduled soon ←
16:31:05 <dauwhe> ... but much depends on how PF interprets this
... but much depends on how PF interprets this ←
16:31:13 <mgylling> http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/PR-html-longdesc-20141204/
Markus Gylling: http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/PR-html-longdesc-20141204/ ←
16:31:24 <ivan> Topic: longdesc
16:31:33 <mgylling> (AC only) https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/longdesc-PR/
Markus Gylling: (AC only) https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/longdesc-PR/ ←
16:31:39 <dauwhe> mgylling: here's the AC review link
Markus Gylling: here's the AC review link ←
16:32:00 <dauwhe> ... we have been reminded that input from the publishing community is desired
... we have been reminded that input from the publishing community is desired ←
16:32:15 <dauwhe> ... so how can we produce a review?
... so how can we produce a review? ←
16:33:01 <dauwhe> ... we need to poke all publisher W3C members to do this review
... we need to poke all publisher W3C members to do this review ←
16:33:13 <dauwhe> George: I was hoping to clarify in my mind the implications of this
Scribe problem: the name 'George' is ambiguous. It could be any of: George Walkley George Kerscher . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown George: I was hoping to clarify in my mind the implications of this ←
16:34:05 <dauwhe> ... clarifying the usage, and then asking other w3c members to comment
... clarifying the usage, and then asking other w3c members to comment ←
16:34:17 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:34:32 <dauwhe> mgylling: in terms of clarifying the usage, can you rephrase as question? This has been discussed for more than a decade
Markus Gylling: in terms of clarifying the usage, can you rephrase as question? This has been discussed for more than a decade ←
16:34:58 <dauwhe> George: when a long desc is needed, such as "the diagrammer", a framework for making images accessible
Scribe problem: the name 'George' is ambiguous. It could be any of: George Walkley George Kerscher . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown George: when a long desc is needed, such as "the Diagrammar", a framework for making images accessible ←
16:35:14 <mgylling> s/diagrammer/Diagrammar/
16:35:42 <dauwhe> ... when would you use long desc, and the other aspect is SVG, how do we add enhancements to other elements other than just the image?
... when would you use long desc, and the other aspect is SVG, how do we add enhancements to other elements other than just the image? ←
16:35:48 <dauwhe> ... this is just focused on image
... this is just focused on image ←
16:35:57 <dauwhe> ... there are other items that need a description
... there are other items that need a description ←
16:36:14 <dauwhe> ... is the rec that there be a variety of techniques, depending on the element? Like canvas...
... is the rec that there be a variety of techniques, depending on the element? Like canvas... ←
16:36:16 <dauwhe> mgylling: right
Markus Gylling: right ←
16:36:49 <dauwhe> ... there is an attribute in ARIA 1.1 called described-at, which takes a URL so you can point outside the doc
... there is an attribute in ARIA 1.1 called described-at, which takes a URL so you can point outside the doc ←
16:36:58 <dauwhe> ... which is a more generic version of longdesc
... which is a more generic version of longdesc ←
16:37:08 <dauwhe> ... longdesc is allowed on IMG and map only
... longdesc is allowed on IMG and map only ←
16:37:22 <dauwhe> ... so you're asking about what is the long-term vision
... so you're asking about what is the long-term vision ←
16:37:30 <dauwhe> George: there's the political aspect
Scribe problem: the name 'George' is ambiguous. It could be any of: George Walkley George Kerscher . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown George: there's the political aspect ←
16:37:42 <dauwhe> ... it's been a Herculean effort from them
... it's been a Herculean effort from them ←
16:37:59 <dauwhe> ... just trying to get my head around all this
... just trying to get my head around all this ←
16:38:29 <dauwhe> mgylling: it's safe to say that in PF strategy terms, longdesc is intended to solve problems in the short term
Markus Gylling: it's safe to say that in PF strategy terms, longdesc is intended to solve problems in the short term ←
16:38:37 <dauwhe> ... while waiting for ARIA 1.1 to me mature
... while waiting for ARIA 1.1 to me mature ←
16:39:20 <dauwhe> George: the techniques for exposing this attribute, in Firefox it's a context menu item
Scribe problem: the name 'George' is ambiguous. It could be any of: George Walkley George Kerscher . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown George: the techniques for exposing this attribute, in Firefox it's a context menu item ←
16:39:42 <dauwhe> ... I think the long term goal is good
... I think the long term goal is good ←
16:39:46 <clapierre> q+
Charles LaPierre: q+ ←
16:40:03 <dauwhe> mgylling: another thing on horizon is annotations
Markus Gylling: another thing on horizon is annotations ←
16:40:06 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
16:40:11 <dauwhe> ... which can be used for a11y
... which can be used for a11y ←
16:40:24 <dauwhe> ... with annotations, the pointing description is reversed
... with annotations, the pointing direction is reversed ←
16:40:34 <dauwhe> s/description/direction/
16:40:45 <dauwhe> ... it's good to have both described-at and annotations
... it's good to have both described-at and annotations ←
16:40:49 <dauwhe> ... that's the end point
... that's the end point ←
16:40:55 <mgylling> ack ivan
Markus Gylling: ack ivan ←
16:40:56 <tzviya> ack ivan
Tzviya Siegman: ack ivan ←
16:41:08 <dauwhe> ivan: I'm a bit bothered by what's happening in terms of process
Ivan Herman: I'm a bit bothered by what's happening in terms of process ←
16:41:22 <dauwhe> ... George is asking about long term
... George is asking about long term ←
16:41:37 <dauwhe> ... procedurally, at this point the only thing that members can vote on
... procedurally, at this point the only thing that members can vote on ←
16:41:51 <dauwhe> ... is essentially a yes or no, since this is already a PR
... is essentially a yes or no, since this is already a PR ←
16:42:01 <dauwhe> ... they may decide it's not to be a REC
... they may decide it's not to be a REC ←
16:42:13 <dauwhe> ... but it is not at this stage that any technical comments should occur
... but it is not at this stage that any technical comments should occur ←
16:42:25 <dauwhe> ... but we missed the boat
... but we missed the boat ←
16:43:03 <dauwhe> ... If publishers support this, that's a valuable message, as there has been controvery
... If publishers support this, that's a valuable message, as there has been controversy ←
16:43:31 <ivan> s/controvery/controversy/
16:43:32 <dauwhe> George: we supplied formal written comments a couple of years ago
Scribe problem: the name 'George' is ambiguous. It could be any of: George Walkley George Kerscher . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown George: we supplied formal written comments a couple of years ago ←
16:43:40 <mgylling> ack clapierre
Markus Gylling: ack clapierre ←
16:43:52 <dauwhe> clapierre: a couple questions
Charles LaPierre: a couple questions ←
16:43:58 <clapierre> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2014Aug/0028.html
Charles LaPierre: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2014Aug/0028.html ←
16:44:07 <dauwhe> ... first, here's Apple's formal objection
... first, here's Apple's formal objection ←
16:44:40 <dauwhe> ... if this long description is pointing to a URL, how does this work offline
... if this long description is pointing to a URL, how does this work offline ←
16:44:42 <mgylling> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2014Oct/0099.html
Markus Gylling: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2014Oct/0099.html ←
16:45:03 <dauwhe> q+
q+ ←
16:45:27 <dauwhe> mgylling: good questions
Markus Gylling: good questions ←
16:45:42 <dauwhe> ... having monitored this for a decade, I'm lacking enthusiasm to start into this again
... having monitored this for a decade, I'm lacking enthusiasm to start into this again ←
16:45:46 <dauwhe> ... it is what it is
... it is what it is ←
16:46:03 <dauwhe> ... the politics are so involved that technical merit discussions are moot
... the politics are so involved that technical merit discussions are moot ←
16:46:11 <dauwhe> ... it doesn't solve all problems, but solves some
... it doesn't solve all problems, but solves some ←
16:46:12 <dauwhe> q-
q- ←
16:46:19 <dauwhe> ... but it's not the golden wrench
... but it's not the golden wrench ←
16:46:25 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:46:27 <dauwhe> ... it's just one thing in the toolbox
... it's just one thing in the toolbox ←
16:46:45 <dauwhe> clapierre: ARIA seems like the right approach
Charles LaPierre: ARIA seems like the right approach ←
16:46:55 <dauwhe> ... affects SVG, STEM...
... affects SVG, STEM... ←
16:47:11 <dauwhe> ... it was rejected for HTML
... it was rejected for HTML ←
16:47:24 <dauwhe> ... will this get into a revision of HTML5 quicker than ARIA?
... will this get into a revision of HTML5 quicker than ARIA? ←
16:47:56 <dauwhe> ivan: not sure how this is done editorially
Ivan Herman: not sure how this is done editorially ←
16:48:15 <dauwhe> ... it might be an extension
... it might be an extension ←
16:48:44 <dauwhe> George: the politics here is that if DPUB or a number of members come out against longdesc
Scribe problem: the name 'George' is ambiguous. It could be any of: George Walkley George Kerscher . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown George: the politics here is that if DPUB or a number of members come out against longdesc ←
16:48:57 <dauwhe> ... the public would view this as the publishing industry not wanting to support a11y
... the public would view this as the publishing industry not wanting to support a11y ←
16:49:04 <dauwhe> ... that would be the appearance of it
... that would be the appearance of it ←
16:49:08 <dauwhe> ... that's the wrong message
... that's the wrong message ←
16:49:22 <dauwhe> ... I don't think we could avoid that (mis)perception
... I don't think we could avoid that (mis)perception ←
16:49:33 <dauwhe> ... if the group came out against longdesc
... if the group came out against longdesc ←
16:49:38 <dauwhe> ivan: I understand
Ivan Herman: I understand ←
16:49:48 <dauwhe> ... I don't want to evade the issue
... I don't want to evade the issue ←
16:50:01 <dauwhe> ... but since we're in PR, this IG is not in position to be pro/con
... but since we're in PR, this IG is not in position to be pro/con ←
16:50:08 <tzviya> q+
Tzviya Siegman: q+ ←
16:50:11 <dauwhe> ... this is now in the hands of the individual members
... this is now in the hands of the individual members ←
16:50:19 <dauwhe> ... it's way too late
... it's way too late ←
16:50:25 <mgylling> ack tzviya
Markus Gylling: ack tzviya ←
16:50:32 <dauwhe> ... it's out of the hands of the groups
... it's out of the hands of the groups ←
16:51:13 <dauwhe> tzviya: Let's remind people to review this, but it's not the place of DPUB to say how to vote
Tzviya Siegman: Let's remind people to review this, but it's not the place of DPUB to say how to vote ←
16:51:13 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
16:51:32 <dauwhe> mgylling: so we want to get the publishing industry to vote
Markus Gylling: so we want to get the publishing industry to vote ←
16:52:51 <dauwhe> ... It's a milestone, but it's not the endpoint
... It's a milestone, but it's not the endpoint ←
16:53:00 <dauwhe> ... the more important question is what to do after longdesc?
... the more important question is what to do after longdesc? ←
16:53:19 <dauwhe> ... participation in PF from publishing is low
... participation in PF from publishing is low ←
16:53:31 <dauwhe> ... maybe we should get more people to work on ARIA 1.1
... maybe we should get more people to work on ARIA 1.1 ←
16:53:59 <dauwhe> George: participation in PF and ARIA is going to be important
Scribe problem: the name 'George' is ambiguous. It could be any of: George Walkley George Kerscher . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown George: participation in PF and ARIA is going to be important ←
16:54:10 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:54:14 <dauwhe> ... also, the implementations of those features and functions is important
... also, the implementations of those features and functions is important ←
16:54:22 <dauwhe> ... like in Readium
... like in Readium ←
16:54:29 <mgylling> ack Bill_K
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_K ←
16:54:53 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: with regard to longdesc, what is the status of implementation
Bill Kasdorf: with regard to longdesc, what is the status of implementation ←
16:55:07 <dauwhe> mgylling: there is an implementation report published with the provisional rec
Markus Gylling: there is an implementation report published with the provisional rec ←
16:55:35 <dauwhe> mgylling: we're poking AC reps...
Markus Gylling: we're poking AC reps... ←
16:55:54 <dauwhe> ... how can we be more proactive moving forward, that's a matter of resource assignment
... how can we be more proactive moving forward, that's a matter of resource assignment ←
16:56:07 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:56:09 <dauwhe> ... so now's a good time for digital publishing to get involved in ARIA
... so now's a good time for digital publishing to get involved in ARIA ←
16:56:19 <mgylling> ack [IPcaller]
Markus Gylling: ack [IPcaller] ←
16:56:36 <dauwhe> ???: what happens if review for longdesc is negative?
Scribe problem: the name 'avnesh' does not match any of the 85 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown avnesh: what happens if review for longdesc is negative? ←
16:56:53 <tzviya> s/???/avnesh
16:56:57 <dauwhe> mgylling: what would we practically do?
Markus Gylling: what would we practically do? ←
16:57:22 <dauwhe> mgylling: epub 3.1 already allows aria described-at
Markus Gylling: epub 3.0.1 already allows aria described-at ←
16:57:48 <dauwhe> ... we can't easily answer the question
... we can't easily answer the question ←
16:58:09 <Bill_Kasdorf> s/epub 3.1/epub 3.0.1
16:58:11 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
16:58:14 <dauwhe> ... any last questions?
... any last questions? ←
16:58:38 <dauwhe> mgylling: thanks everyone
Markus Gylling: thanks everyone ←
16:58:42 <Zakim> -Markus
Zakim IRC Bot: -Markus ←
16:58:44 <Zakim> -Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc ←
16:58:44 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
Zakim IRC Bot: -Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:58:45 <Zakim> -Julie
Zakim IRC Bot: -Julie ←
16:58:45 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
16:58:45 <Zakim> -fjh
Zakim IRC Bot: -fjh ←
16:58:46 <Zakim> -tzviya
Zakim IRC Bot: -tzviya ←
16:58:46 <Zakim> -Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: -Stearns ←
16:58:48 <Zakim> -MikeMiller
Scribe problem: the name 'MikeMiller' does not match any of the 85 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -MikeMiller ←
16:58:48 <Zakim> -bjdmeest
Zakim IRC Bot: -bjdmeest ←
16:58:48 <Zakim> -clapierre
Zakim IRC Bot: -clapierre ←
16:58:49 <Zakim> -dkaplan3
Zakim IRC Bot: -dkaplan3 ←
16:58:49 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
16:58:49 <dauwhe> all: bye bye bye bye bye
Scribe problem: the name 'all' does not match any of the 85 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown all: bye bye bye bye bye ←
16:58:50 <Zakim> -George_Kerscher
Zakim IRC Bot: -George_Kerscher ←
16:58:51 <Zakim> -Bert
Zakim IRC Bot: -Bert ←
17:03:05 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
Ivan Herman: trackbot, end telcon ←
17:03:05 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
17:03:05 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been George_Kerscher, dkaplan3, [IPcaller], clapierre, MikeMiller, Ivan, +1.212.255.aaaa, tzviya, Luc, Markus, Vlad, Stearns, bjdmeest,
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been George_Kerscher, dkaplan3, [IPcaller], clapierre, MikeMiller, Ivan, +1.212.255.aaaa, tzviya, Luc, Markus, Vlad, Stearns, bjdmeest, ←
17:03:09 <Zakim> ... Bill_Kasdorf, Thierry, Bert, +1.347.633.aabb, Julie, fjh
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Bill_Kasdorf, Thierry, Bert, +1.347.633.aabb, Julie, fjh ←
17:03:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
17:03:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/08-dpub-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/08-dpub-minutes.html trackbot ←
17:03:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
17:03:14 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
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