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15:01:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/24-dpub-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/24-dpub-irc ←
15:01:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
15:01:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be dpub ←
15:01:56 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 59 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 59 minutes ←
15:01:57 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:01:57 <trackbot> Date: 24 November 2014
15:05:21 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Nov/0084.html
Ivan Herman: ivan has changed the topic to: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Nov/0084.html ←
15:05:25 <ivan> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2014Nov/0084.html
15:07:21 <ivan> Regrets: Phil
15:32:35 <ivan> Regrets+ Laura
(No events recorded for 27 minutes)
Ivan Herman: Regrets+ Laura ←
15:57:13 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 24 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started ←
15:57:22 <Zakim> +Tzviya
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tzviya ←
15:57:51 <Zakim> +MikeMiller
Zakim IRC Bot: +MikeMiller ←
15:58:08 <Zakim> +dauwhe
Zakim IRC Bot: +dauwhe ←
15:58:15 <Zakim> +clapierre
Zakim IRC Bot: +clapierre ←
15:58:49 <Zakim> +Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: +Stearns ←
15:58:52 <Zakim> -MikeMiller
Scribe problem: the name 'MikeMiller' does not match any of the 85 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -MikeMiller ←
15:59:06 <Zakim> +duga
Zakim IRC Bot: +duga ←
15:59:30 <Zakim> +MikeMiller
Zakim IRC Bot: +MikeMiller ←
15:59:47 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
15:59:48 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers
Zakim IRC Bot: +Karen_Myers ←
16:00:09 <murakami> zakim, ??P7 is me
Shinyu Murakami: zakim, ??P7 is me ←
16:00:09 <Zakim> +murakami; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +murakami; got it ←
16:00:30 <Zakim> +Vlad
Zakim IRC Bot: +Vlad ←
16:00:36 <Zakim> +astein
Zakim IRC Bot: +astein ←
16:00:39 <Zakim> +Markus
Zakim IRC Bot: +Markus ←
16:00:40 <Zakim> +[Safari]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[Safari] ←
16:00:48 <mgylling> regrets: Laura Fowler, Madi Solomon, Susann Keohane, Phil Madans, Julie Morris, Liza Daly, Rob Sanderson
Scribe problem: the name 'Rob Sanderson' does not match any of the 82 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki
16:00:51 <AH_Miller> For those who know Tony Graham, he now works for Antenna House
Michael Miller: For those who know Tony Graham, he now works for Antenna House ←
16:00:52 <dkaplan3> zakim, [Safari] is me
Deborah Kaplan: zakim, [Safari] is me ←
16:00:52 <Zakim> +dkaplan3; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dkaplan3; got it ←
16:01:02 <Zakim> +Bert
Zakim IRC Bot: +Bert ←
16:01:03 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf
Zakim IRC Bot: +Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:01:14 <Zakim> +pkra
Zakim IRC Bot: +pkra ←
16:01:20 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
16:01:20 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
16:01:22 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
16:01:53 <ivan> Regrets+ Rob, Liza
Ivan Herman: Regrets+ Rob, Liza ←
16:02:36 <ivan> Chair: markus
16:02:46 <mgylling> zakim, who is here?
Markus Gylling: zakim, who is here? ←
16:02:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tzviya, dauwhe, clapierre, Stearns, duga, MikeMiller, murakami, Karen_Myers, Vlad, astein, Markus, dkaplan3, Bert, Bill_Kasdorf, pkra, Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Tzviya, dauwhe, clapierre, Stearns, duga, MikeMiller, murakami, Karen_Myers, Vlad, astein, Markus, dkaplan3, Bert, Bill_Kasdorf, pkra, Ivan ←
16:02:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see bjdmeest, pkra, Vlad, Bill_Kasdorf, murakami, Bert, AH_Miller, clapierre, brady_duga, astein, tzviya, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, Karen, fjh, ivan, liam_,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bjdmeest, pkra, Vlad, Bill_Kasdorf, murakami, Bert, AH_Miller, clapierre, brady_duga, astein, tzviya, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, Karen, fjh, ivan, liam_, ←
16:02:50 <Zakim> ... astearns, iank_, mihnea_____, plinss, rego, dkaplan3, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... astearns, iank_, mihnea_____, plinss, rego, dkaplan3, trackbot ←
16:02:50 <Zakim> +Ruben
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ruben ←
16:02:56 <bjdmeest> zakim, Ruben is me
Ben De Meester: zakim, Ruben is me ←
16:02:56 <Zakim> +bjdmeest; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bjdmeest; got it ←
16:03:02 <tzviya> Regrets+ Julie, Azaroth
Tzviya Siegman: Regrets+ Julie, Azaroth ←
16:03:04 <bjdmeest> Present+ Ben_De_Meester
Ben De Meester: Present+ Ben_De_Meester ←
16:03:23 <pkra> mgylling approve last week's minutes.
Peter Krautzberger: mgylling approve last week's minutes. ←
16:03:31 <ivan> scribenick: pkra
(Scribe set to Peter Krautzberger)
16:03:38 <pkra> ... no objections. minutes are approved.
... no objections. minutes are approved. ←
16:03:54 <Zakim> +Thierry
Zakim IRC Bot: +Thierry ←
16:03:58 <pkra> ... two topics: 1) Pagination & APIs (brad_duga)
... two topics: 1) Pagination & APIs (brad_duga) ←
16:04:01 <Zakim> + +1.585.217.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.585.217.aaaa ←
16:04:05 <pkra> ... see link in agenda to wiki page
... see link in agenda to wiki page ←
16:04:10 <bjdmeest> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Pagination_Requirements
Ben De Meester: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Pagination_Requirements ←
16:04:11 <ivan> -> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Pagination_Requirements Brady's list
Ivan Herman: -> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Pagination_Requirements Brady's list ←
16:04:17 <pkra> ... figure out where we're going and what's needed to finish
... figure out where we're going and what's needed to finish ←
16:04:29 <david_stroup> I'm 585.217
David Stroup: I'm 585.217 ←
16:04:31 <pkra> ... 2) latinrec, dauwhe about pagination
... 2) latinrec, dauwhe about pagination ←
16:04:37 <Zakim> +TimCole
Zakim IRC Bot: +TimCole ←
16:04:38 <ivan> zakim, aaaa is david_stroup
Ivan Herman: zakim, aaaa is david_stroup ←
16:04:39 <Zakim> +david_stroup; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +david_stroup; got it ←
16:04:41 <pkra> ... etc.
... etc. ←
16:05:41 <pkra> brady_duga my attempt at outlining the issues a reading systems might have trying to implement on top of browser engine.
brady_duga my attempt at outlining the issues a reading systems might have trying to implement on top of browser engine. ←
16:06:01 <pkra> ... these are those I've heard, seen discussions on
... these are those I've heard, seen discussions on ←
16:06:08 <pkra> ... not representative.
... not representative. ←
16:06:12 <pkra> ... some empty sections.
... some empty sections. ←
16:06:24 <pkra> ... need more fleshing out, outlines, diagrams etc.
... need more fleshing out, outlines, diagrams etc. ←
16:06:40 <pkra> ... would like to see other implementors to add, object, correct.
... would like to see other implementors to add, object, correct. ←
16:06:43 <dauwhe> q+
Dave Cramer: q+ ←
16:06:51 <pkra> ... after feedback I'd like to go back and fill in details.
... after feedback I'd like to go back and fill in details. ←
16:06:53 <astearns> q+
Alan Stearns: q+ ←
16:07:01 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:07:06 <mgylling> ack dauwhe
Markus Gylling: ack dauwhe ←
16:07:36 <pkra> dauwhe reminds me of interest for the IG. Quite a few of these requirements are aobut allowing the reader to change the aspects of renderin.
dauwhe reminds me of interest for the IG. Quite a few of these requirements are aobut allowing the reader to change the aspects of renderin. ←
16:07:54 <pkra> ... one of *the* continuing challenges for ebook reading system since the early days.
... one of *the* continuing challenges for ebook reading system since the early days. ←
16:08:01 <ivan> +1 to dave
Ivan Herman: +1 to dave ←
16:08:09 <pkra> ... should the IG look into this more generally/specifically?
... should the IG look into this more generally/specifically? ←
16:08:25 <pkra> ... allowing user control over presentation .
... allowing user control over presentation . ←
16:08:36 <pkra> ... user style sheets prove not powerful enough
... user style sheets prove not powerful enough ←
16:08:53 <tzviya> q+
Tzviya Siegman: q+ ←
16:08:59 <pkra> brady_duga for the general populace is interested in this for ebooks but less so for general websites.
brady_duga for the general populace is interested in this for ebooks but less so for general websites. ←
16:09:14 <pkra> ... in particular for a11y
... in particular for a11y ←
16:09:16 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:09:29 <pkra> ... Definitely an important area.
... Definitely an important area. ←
16:09:45 <mgylling> ack astearns
Markus Gylling: ack astearns ←
16:09:49 <pkra> ... I tried to stay away from solutions, how to address these isssues as there usually are several directions for that.
... I tried to stay away from solutions, how to address these isssues as there usually are several directions for that. ←
16:10:06 <pkra> astearns thanks for this helpful document!
astearns thanks for this helpful document! ←
16:10:30 <pkra> ... re section "segmenting content". Is this for partial layout (from certain page on) or something else?
... re section "segmenting content". Is this for partial layout (from certain page on) or something else? ←
16:10:44 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
16:10:55 <pkra> brady_duga: mostly memory. not loading everyhting on devices with small memory.
Brady Duga: mostly memory. not loading everyhting on devices with small memory. ←
16:11:07 <pkra> ... e.g., King James bible
... e.g., King James bible ←
16:11:24 <pkra> ... but also load for chapter.
... but also load for chapter. ←
16:12:40 <pkra> asterans for pagination has several ways. Lack of css regions; there are good polyfills.
asterans for pagination has several ways. Lack of css regions; there are good polyfills. ←
16:12:50 <pkra> brady_duga yes, css regions shouldbe added.
brady_duga yes, css regions shouldbe added. ←
16:13:15 <pkra> ... for overflow scroll. Are people using this? Do browsers have this?
... for overflow scroll. Are people using this? Do browsers have this? ←
16:13:28 <pkra> dauwhe: didn't opera/presto do it?
Dave Cramer: didn't opera/presto do it? ←
16:13:40 <pkra> brady_duga: right.
Brady Duga: right. ←
16:13:45 <Bert> (there was a special version of Opera available at some point. I still use it every once in a while :-) )
Bert Bos: (there was a special version of Opera available at some point. I still use it every once in a while :-) ) ←
16:13:49 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:14:09 <pkra> brady_duga I will add overflow scroll not widely implemented and section on css regions.
brady_duga I will add overflow scroll not widely implemented and section on css regions. ←
16:14:15 <mgylling> ack tzviya
Markus Gylling: ack tzviya ←
16:14:46 <pkra> tzviya a) personalization tools for ebooks are common to websites as well (e.g., font size)
tzviya a) personalization tools for ebooks are common to websites as well (e.g., font size) ←
16:15:14 <pkra> ... relative report: the discovery of changing font size on newspaper homepage can mean the world.
... relative report: the discovery of changing font size on newspaper homepage can mean the world. ←
16:15:17 <Bert> (Actually, I think the last Presto-based version of Opera has it, with an -o- prefix.)
Bert Bos: (Actually, I think the last Presto-based version of Opera has it, with an -o- prefix.) ←
16:15:34 <fjh> zakim, code?
Frederick Hirsch: zakim, code? ←
16:15:34 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), fjh
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), fjh ←
16:15:37 <pkra> brady_duga Yes, should be added. Others (Night-mode etc.) is less common.
brady_duga Yes, should be added. Others (Night-mode etc.) is less common. ←
16:15:52 <pkra> mgylling Q: does it belong in this document?
mgylling Q: does it belong in this document? ←
16:16:01 <pkra> ... is this specific to paginated media?
... is this specific to paginated media? ←
16:16:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
16:16:07 <fjh> zakim, ipcaller is me
Frederick Hirsch: zakim, ipcaller is me ←
16:16:07 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +fjh; got it ←
16:16:29 <pkra> brady_duga: yes, this branched out to more problems of implementing reading system on top of browser
Brady Duga: yes, this branched out to more problems of implementing reading system on top of browser ←
16:16:49 <pkra> tzviya another one: citations / stable reference could be mentioned in this context
tzviya another one: citations / stable reference could be mentioned in this context ←
16:17:54 <pkra> astearns user customization is more general issue but crucial in paginated views as it affects reflow / relayout has to be maintained.
astearns user customization is more general issue but crucial in paginated views as it affects reflow / relayout has to be maintained. ←
16:18:20 <pkra> brady_duga: in particular, page numbers can end up completely wrong after customization.
Brady Duga: in particular, page numbers can end up completely wrong after customization. ←
16:18:29 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:18:38 <mgylling> ack Bill_K
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_K ←
16:19:23 <Zakim> -Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: -Stearns ←
16:19:33 <pkra> Bill_K: a) on personalization. in the ebook context, it tends to be done globally, not so much per document. This might be a difference compared to the web.
Bill Kasdorf: a) on personalization. in the ebook context, it tends to be done globally, not so much per document. This might be a difference compared to the web. ←
16:20:05 <Zakim> +Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: +Stearns ←
16:20:13 <pkra> brady_duga: good point. However, e.g., font size might want to change depending on the book and its design.
Brady Duga: good point. However, e.g., font size might want to change depending on the book and its design. ←
16:20:30 <pkra> Bill_K: right. Also context. On a treadmill, I'll increase font size.
Bill Kasdorf: right. Also context. On a treadmill, I'll increase font size. ←
16:20:59 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:21:07 <pkra> ... in scholarly context, another segmentation use case is keeping a particular piece of content fixed while scrolling through content.
... in scholarly context, another segmentation use case is keeping a particular piece of content fixed while scrolling through content. ←
16:21:12 <pkra> brady_duga: I'll add that.
Brady Duga: I'll add that. ←
16:21:33 <tzviya> zakim, who is noisy?
Tzviya Siegman: zakim, who is noisy? ←
16:21:45 <Zakim> tzviya, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: duga (41%), murakami (28%), Markus (14%)
Zakim IRC Bot: tzviya, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: duga (41%), murakami (28%), Markus (14%) ←
16:21:46 <pkra> mgylling: brady_duga you asked for feedback from implementors. How do we gather this once the document is a bit more complete.
Markus Gylling: brady_duga you asked for feedback from implementors. How do we gather this once the document is a bit more complete. ←
16:22:42 <pkra> brady_duga: If people could take it back to their respective organizations. If you know an implementor, please hook us up.
Brady Duga: If people could take it back to their respective organizations. If you know an implementor, please hook us up. ←
16:22:45 <pkra> ... Readium, Apple, Adobe.
... Readium, Apple, Adobe. ←
16:22:59 <Bill_Kasdorf> I'm hearing a lot of echo and feedback
Bill Kasdorf: I'm hearing a lot of echo and feedback ←
16:23:05 <pkra> ... if they're on the group, that'd be good.
... if they're on the group, that'd be good. ←
16:23:31 <pkra> Ivan: Apple is on, but time zone Canberra => difficult.
Ivan Herman: Apple is on, but time zone Canberra => difficult. ←
16:23:57 <pkra> mgylling: should we start immediately or do you want to give it another pass first?
Markus Gylling: should we start immediately or do you want to give it another pass first? ←
16:24:25 <pkra> brady_duga: let's say 2 weeks until outreach (given it's Thanksgiving week)
Brady Duga: let's say 2 weeks until outreach (given it's Thanksgiving week) ←
16:25:10 <pkra> mgylling: what are thoughts on the personalization in this document?
Markus Gylling: what are thoughts on the personalization in this document? ←
16:25:35 <pkra> ??? it's fine in there. accessibility is one part of personalization. But treadmill example shows it's wider.
dkaplan it's fine in there. accessibility is one part of personalization. But treadmill example shows it's wider. ←
16:25:54 <mgylling> s/???/dkaplan/
16:25:59 <pkra> ... but we should talk to each other since a11y is critical.
... but we should talk to each other since a11y is critical. ←
16:26:05 <pkra> (thx)
(thx) ←
16:26:40 <pkra> ???: agreed. Benetech is interested in both.
Charles LaPierre: agreed. Benetech is interested in both. ←
16:26:45 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:26:52 <tzviya> s/???/clapierre
16:27:48 <pkra> brady_duga: I'll do another pass, then reach out to the usual suspects. Does this need to be respec?
Brady Duga: I'll do another pass, then reach out to the usual suspects. Does this need to be respec? ←
16:28:03 <dauwhe> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/#the-spatial-geometry-of-pages-spreads-and-bleeds
Dave Cramer: http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/#the-spatial-geometry-of-pages-spreads-and-bleeds ←
16:28:05 <pkra> Ivan: let me know when you're at that point.
Ivan Herman: let me know when you're at that point. ←
16:28:13 <pkra> mgylling: moving on.
Markus Gylling: moving on. ←
16:28:43 <pkra> dauwhe: at last F2F I've added a section to latinrec about spatial geometry of pages (spreads, bleeds etc)
Dave Cramer: at last F2F I've added a section to latinrec about spatial geometry of pages (spreads, bleeds etc) ←
16:29:11 <pkra> ... just some basics (crossing the gutter, orientations, sizes, objects bleeding off the page etc)
... just some basics (crossing the gutter, orientations, sizes, objects bleeding off the page etc) ←
16:29:25 <pkra> ... would like more examples on usual things in this area.
... would like more examples on usual things in this area. ←
16:29:35 <pkra> ... in particular, pages of different orientation (e.g., table)
... in particular, pages of different orientation (e.g., table) ←
16:30:17 <pkra> ... what are the other circumstances we need to document?
... what are the other circumstances we need to document? ←
16:30:43 <pkra> ... going back to the mothership jrrec.
... going back to the mothership jlreq. ←
16:31:23 <pkra> ... looking for examples: how running heads are positioned; what content appears (has come up on www-style again.
... looking for examples: how running heads are positioned; what content appears (has come up on www-style again. ←
16:31:45 <pkra> ... in particular, special content (dates, filenames, stored inattributes, that needs processing)
... in particular, special content (dates, filenames, stored inattributes, that needs processing) ←
16:31:46 <pkra> ...
... ←
16:31:50 <tzviya> s/jrrec/jlreq
16:32:03 <pkra> (thx)
(thx) ←
16:32:08 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
16:32:10 <pkra> ... want to display machine readable content in human readable form.
... want to display machine readable content in human readable form. ←
16:32:19 <pkra> ... this needs some publishing use cases.
... this needs some publishing use cases. ←
16:32:21 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:32:54 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:32:59 <mgylling> ack Bill_K
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_K ←
16:33:45 <pkra> Bill_K: the difference between generated and literal text. often programmatic (Ch.Sec etc). In most books the text is too long, so publishers provide short forms so sometimes you need to access the shortened version, sometimes the actual content .
Bill Kasdorf: the difference between generated and literal text. often programmatic (Ch.Sec etc). In most books the text is too long, so publishers provide short forms so sometimes you need to access the shortened version, sometimes the actual content . ←
16:33:50 <mgylling> ack ivan
Markus Gylling: ack ivan ←
16:33:59 <pkra> dauwhe: yes, I will add it.
Dave Cramer: yes, I will add it. ←
16:34:11 <pkra> ... another issue unique to pagination: continued lines.
... another issue unique to pagination: continued lines. ←
16:34:25 <pkra> ... can of worms but needs documenting.
... can of worms but needs documenting. ←
16:34:49 <pkra> ... e.g. tables are split, headers are repeated, what gets copied from page to page, what isn't
... e.g. tables are split, headers are repeated, what gets copied from page to page, what isn't ←
16:34:58 <pkra> Bill_K: another one is footnotes.
Bill Kasdorf: another one is footnotes. ←
16:35:12 <pkra> dauwhe: I'd be interested in examples.
Dave Cramer: I'd be interested in examples. ←
16:35:20 <pkra> Bill_K: important in legal
Bill Kasdorf: important in legal ←
16:35:34 <pkra> dauwhe: could you send a screenshot?
Dave Cramer: could you send a screenshot? ←
16:35:42 <pkra> mgylling: tzviya might help.
Markus Gylling: tzviya might help. ←
16:36:05 <pkra> Ivan: purely technical: the way you described the bleed seems bound to printed books?
Ivan Herman: purely technical: the way you described the bleed seems bound to printed books? ←
16:36:11 <pkra> ... how is this relevant to digital publishing?
... how is this relevant to digital publishing? ←
16:36:33 <pkra> dauwhe: in general, relevant for digital publishing as we need to extend objects to the edge of the viewable area.
Dave Cramer: in general, relevant for digital publishing as we need to extend objects to the edge of the viewable area. ←
16:36:53 <pkra> ... this has held back higher-design ebooks since reading systems that add borders etc.
... this has held back higher-design ebooks since reading systems that add borders etc. ←
16:37:04 <tzviya> q+
Tzviya Siegman: q+ ←
16:37:11 <pkra> ... also, latinrec is documenting print practices.
... also, latinrec is documenting print practices. ←
16:37:23 <pkra> Ivan: the use case in this document is related to large piece of paper that is folded and cut.
Ivan Herman: the use case in this document is related to large piece of paper that is folded and cut. ←
16:37:32 <pkra> ... a use case for digital books would make sense.
... a use case for digital books would make sense. ←
16:38:10 <tmichel> zakim, who is here?
Thierry Michel: zakim, who is here? ←
16:38:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tzviya, dauwhe, clapierre, duga, MikeMiller, murakami (muted), Karen_Myers, Vlad, astein, Markus, dkaplan3, Bert, Bill_Kasdorf, pkra, Ivan, bjdmeest, Thierry,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Tzviya, dauwhe, clapierre, duga, MikeMiller, murakami (muted), Karen_Myers, Vlad, astein, Markus, dkaplan3, Bert, Bill_Kasdorf, pkra, Ivan, bjdmeest, Thierry, ←
16:38:15 <Zakim> ... david_stroup, TimCole, fjh, Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: ... david_stroup, TimCole, fjh, Stearns ←
16:38:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see TimCole, david_stroup, tmichel, bjdmeest, pkra, Vlad, Bill_Kasdorf, murakami, Bert, AH_Miller, clapierre, brady_duga, astein, tzviya, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see TimCole, david_stroup, tmichel, bjdmeest, pkra, Vlad, Bill_Kasdorf, murakami, Bert, AH_Miller, clapierre, brady_duga, astein, tzviya, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, ←
16:38:15 <Zakim> ... dauwhe, Karen, fjh, ivan, liam_, astearns, iank_, mihnea_____, plinss, rego, dkaplan3, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... dauwhe, Karen, fjh, ivan, liam_, astearns, iank_, mihnea_____, plinss, rego, dkaplan3, trackbot ←
16:38:25 <pkra> Bill_K: the going past the page is a relict of print. You don't want to go over the edge but to the edge.
Bill Kasdorf: the going past the page is a relict of print. You don't want to go over the edge but to the edge. ←
16:38:44 <pkra> brady_duga: about bleeds. We have had some use cases where we had wanted bleeds.
Brady Duga: about bleeds. We have had some use cases where we had wanted bleeds. ←
16:38:48 <mgylling> ack tzviya
Markus Gylling: ack tzviya ←
16:39:24 <pkra> tzviya: beyond diagrams, it might help the doc to describe things we can't actually do in digital.
Tzviya Siegman: beyond diagrams, it might help the doc to describe things we can't actually do in digital. ←
16:39:25 <astearns> allowing content to extend past a scroll boundary is the digital equivalent of a bleed
Alan Stearns: allowing content to extend past a scroll boundary is the digital equivalent of a bleed ←
16:39:40 <pkra> ... crossing the gutter we can't actually do in CSS.
... crossing the gutter we can't actually do in CSS. ←
16:40:16 <pkra> ... for bleed, we could have a diagram showing a table rendering
... for bleed, we could have a diagram showing a table rendering ←
16:40:19 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:40:21 <pkra> ... with others we should point out it's not possible.
... with others we should point out it's not possible. ←
16:40:38 <pkra> dauwhe: impossible examples are especially welcome
Dave Cramer: impossible examples are especially welcome ←
16:41:13 <pkra> ... will create mockups from tzviya's (coyprighted) examples
... will create mockups from tzviya's (coyprighted) examples ←
16:42:10 <pkra> mgylling: any other examples we missed?
Markus Gylling: any other examples we missed? ←
16:42:22 <pkra> dauwhe: another huge area of examples (not books): office documents.
Dave Cramer: another huge area of examples (not books): office documents. ←
16:42:52 <pkra> tzivya: will provide you with turned tables.
Scribe problem: the name 'tzivya' does not match any of the 85 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown tzivya: will provide you with turned tables. ←
16:43:16 <pkra> mgylling: ch4 will be expanded.
Markus Gylling: ch4 will be expanded. ←
16:43:38 <pkra> ... @dauwhe is it complete?
... @dauwhe is it complete? ←
16:44:10 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:44:13 <pkra> dauwhe: it should be sufficient.
Dave Cramer: it should be sufficient. ←
16:45:04 <pkra> dauwhe: another item from Santa Clara F2F, paginated digital environment might need different metaphor for arranging pages.
Dave Cramer: another item from Santa Clara F2F, paginated digital environment might need different metaphor for arranging pages. ←
16:45:15 <pkra> ... ebook readers you often swipe in
... ebook readers you often swipe in ←
16:45:26 <pkra> ... but in othersituations page might be below.
... but in othersituations page might be below. ←
16:45:33 <pkra> ... discuss how pages are arranged.
... discuss how pages are arranged. ←
16:46:58 <pkra> mgylling: make sure a spread can be more than 2.
Markus Gylling: make sure a spread can be more than 2. ←
16:47:04 <pkra> ... make clear it's unbounded.
... make clear it's unbounded. ←
16:47:15 <pkra> dauwhe: yes. Examples would be very valuable.
Dave Cramer: yes. Examples would be very valuable. ←
16:47:29 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:47:37 <pkra> mgylling: next steps?
Markus Gylling: next steps? ←
16:48:07 <pkra> ... when should we follow up?
... when should we follow up? ←
16:48:35 <pkra> dauwhe: mid-December sounds good.
Dave Cramer: mid-December sounds good. ←
16:48:50 <tzviya> +1
Tzviya Siegman: +1 ←
16:48:52 <astearns> +1
Alan Stearns: +1 ←
16:49:36 <pkra> mgylling: Ivan and I are publishing the whitepaper we discussed.
Markus Gylling: Ivan and I are publishing the whitepaper we discussed. ←
16:49:49 <pkra> ... not perfect timing this week.
... not perfect timing this week. ←
16:49:58 <pkra> ... but more outreach later.
... but more outreach later. ←
16:50:05 <dauwhe> q+
Dave Cramer: q+ ←
16:50:12 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:50:16 <mgylling> ack dauwhe
Markus Gylling: ack dauwhe ←
16:50:19 <pkra> Bill_K: can this be referenced public(talks)?
Bill Kasdorf: can this be referenced public(talks)? ←
16:50:22 <pkra> mgylling: yes.
Markus Gylling: yes. ←
16:50:52 <pkra> dauwhe: re alignment between CSSWG and epub-next.
Dave Cramer: re alignment between DPUB and epub-next. ←
16:51:15 <pkra> ... correction: IG, not WG.
... correction: IG, not WG. ←
16:51:22 <dauwhe> s/CSSWG/DPUB/
16:51:24 <pkra> ... would be useful to focus on various aspects of epub-next.
... would be useful to focus on various aspects of epub-next. ←
16:52:00 <pkra> mgylling: idea is if there's support for it from various stakeholders, then it's likely that the IG work will change a lot.
Markus Gylling: idea is if there's support for it from various stakeholders, then it's likely that the IG work will change a lot. ←
16:52:09 <pkra> ... one of those would relate to styling and layout.
... one of those would relate to styling and layout. ←
16:52:25 <pkra> ... more bi-directional exchange.
... more bi-directional exchange. ←
16:52:40 <pkra> Ivan: the document is on GitHub.
Ivan Herman: the document is on GitHub. ←
16:52:56 <pkra> ... community will (hopefully) give us comments, use issue tracker.
... community will (hopefully) give us comments, use issue tracker. ←
16:53:04 <pkra> ... iterate on the document
... iterate on the document ←
16:53:23 <pkra> ... and obviously DPUB is critical group of ppl for this.
... and obviously DPUB is critical group of ppl for this. ←
16:53:49 <pkra> brady_duga: did we settle on a day for next F2F?
Brady Duga: did we settle on a day for next F2F? ←
16:54:06 <Karen> q+
Karen Myers: q+ ←
16:54:07 <pkra> tzviya: May 26, before IDPF conf at BEA at new Hachette offices, NYC.
Tzviya Siegman: May 26, before IDPF conf at BEA at new Hachette offices, NYC. ←
16:54:14 <mgylling> ack Karen
Markus Gylling: ack Karen ←
16:54:17 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
Thierry Michel: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:54:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/24-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/24-dpub-minutes.html tmichel ←
16:55:03 <pkra> dkaplan: is new antenna house memeber (Tony Graham) on the call today?
Deborah Kaplan: is new antenna house memeber (Tony Graham) on the call today? ←
16:55:20 <pkra> ??? no but will hopefully join.
Tony Graham no but will hopefully join. ←
16:55:24 <pkra> np
np ←
16:55:33 <Zakim> -duga
Zakim IRC Bot: -duga ←
16:55:34 <Zakim> -astein
Zakim IRC Bot: -astein ←
16:55:34 <Zakim> -Markus
Zakim IRC Bot: -Markus ←
16:55:35 <ivan> s/???/Tony Graham/
16:55:35 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
Zakim IRC Bot: -Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:55:36 <Zakim> -fjh
Zakim IRC Bot: -fjh ←
16:55:37 <Zakim> -dkaplan3
Zakim IRC Bot: -dkaplan3 ←
16:55:37 <Zakim> -Vlad
Zakim IRC Bot: -Vlad ←
16:55:38 <Zakim> -clapierre
Zakim IRC Bot: -clapierre ←
16:55:38 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
16:55:38 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers
Zakim IRC Bot: -Karen_Myers ←
16:55:38 <tzviya> s/???/tony graham
16:55:40 <Zakim> -TimCole
Zakim IRC Bot: -TimCole ←
16:55:41 <Zakim> -Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: -Stearns ←
16:55:41 <Zakim> -pkra
Zakim IRC Bot: -pkra ←
16:55:42 <Zakim> -MikeMiller
Scribe problem: the name 'MikeMiller' does not match any of the 85 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Bryan Croft Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Dean Jackson Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Susann Keohane Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -MikeMiller ←
16:55:43 <Zakim> -bjdmeest
Zakim IRC Bot: -bjdmeest ←
16:55:43 <Zakim> -Bert
Zakim IRC Bot: -Bert ←
16:55:45 <Zakim> -david_stroup
Zakim IRC Bot: -david_stroup ←
16:55:45 <Zakim> -Tzviya
Zakim IRC Bot: -Tzviya ←
16:55:45 <Zakim> -dauwhe
Zakim IRC Bot: -dauwhe ←
16:55:49 <Zakim> -murakami
Zakim IRC Bot: -murakami ←
16:55:49 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
Thierry Michel: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:55:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/24-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/24-dpub-minutes.html tmichel ←
16:56:56 <Zakim> -Thierry
Zakim IRC Bot: -Thierry ←
16:56:57 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended ←
16:56:57 <Zakim> Attendees were Tzviya, MikeMiller, dauwhe, clapierre, Stearns, duga, Karen_Myers, murakami, Vlad, astein, Markus, dkaplan3, Bert, Bill_Kasdorf, pkra, Ivan, bjdmeest, Thierry,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Tzviya, MikeMiller, dauwhe, clapierre, Stearns, duga, Karen_Myers, murakami, Vlad, astein, Markus, dkaplan3, Bert, Bill_Kasdorf, pkra, Ivan, bjdmeest, Thierry, ←
16:56:57 <Zakim> ... +1.585.217.aaaa, TimCole, david_stroup, fjh
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.585.217.aaaa, TimCole, david_stroup, fjh ←
Formatted by CommonScribe