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15:15:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc ←
15:17:24 <ivan> Meeting: DPUB IG F2F meeting - first day, 2014-10-30
15:18:07 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/TPAC2014-F2F
Ivan Herman: ivan has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/TPAC2014-F2F ←
15:18:33 <ivan> rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight
Ivan Herman: rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight ←
15:23:28 <bradk> 📖📚📔
Scribe problem: the name 'bradk' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'bradk' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown bradk: 📖📚📔 ←
15:37:01 <ivan> Chair: Markus
15:38:04 <ivan> zakim, dial seattle
(No events recorded for 14 minutes)
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial seattle ←
15:38:04 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I don't know what conference this is
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ivan, I don't know what conference this is ←
15:38:16 <ivan> zakim, this is DPUB
Ivan Herman: zakim, this is DPUB ←
15:38:16 <Zakim> ivan, I see DPUB_IG()11:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be DPUB".
Zakim IRC Bot: ivan, I see DPUB_IG()11:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be DPUB". ←
15:38:27 <ivan> zakim, this will be DPUB
Ivan Herman: zakim, this will be DPUB ←
15:38:27 <Zakim> ok, ivan; I see DPUB_IG()11:00AM scheduled to start 38 minutes ago
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; I see DPUB_IG()11:00AM scheduled to start 38 minutes ago ←
15:38:37 <ivan> zakim, dial seattle
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial seattle ←
15:38:37 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:38:38 <Zakim> DPUB_IG()11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_IG()11:00AM has now started ←
15:38:39 <Zakim> +Seattle
Zakim IRC Bot: +Seattle ←
15:39:14 <ivan> scribenick: Bill_Kasdorf
(Scribe set to Bill Kasdorf)
15:39:24 <Bill_Kasdorf> Priority for this morning is pagination
Priority for this morning is pagination ←
15:39:37 <Bill_Kasdorf> We will deal with logistical issues later to use this time most effectively.
We will deal with logistical issues later to use this time most effectively. ←
15:39:57 <Bill_Kasdorf> (Quick round of self-introductions.)
(Quick round of self-introductions.) ←
15:40:06 <mgylling> +Present Markus_Gylling
Markus Gylling: +Present Markus_Gylling ←
15:40:06 <dauwhe> Present+ Dave_Cramer
Dave Cramer: Present+ Dave_Cramer ←
15:40:10 <glazou> Present+ Daniel_Glazman
Scribe problem: the name 'glazou' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'glazou' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown glazou: Present+ Daniel_Glazman ←
15:40:10 <azaroth> Present+ Rob_Sanderson
Robert Sanderson: Present+ Rob_Sanderson ←
15:40:13 <ivan> Present+ Ivan_Herman
Ivan Herman: Present+ Ivan_Herman ←
15:40:19 <TimCole> Present+ Tim_Cole
Timothy Cole: Present+ Tim_Cole ←
15:40:22 <Bert> present+ Bert Bos
15:40:22 <dkaplan3> Present+ Deborah_Kaplan
Deborah Kaplan: Present+ Deborah_Kaplan ←
15:40:25 <AH_Miller> Present+ Michael Miller, Antenna House
Michael Miller: Present+ Michael Miller, Antenna House ←
15:40:27 <brady_duga> Present+ Brady_Duga
Brady Duga: Present+ Brady_Duga ←
15:40:36 <bradk> Present+ Brad_Kemper
Scribe problem: the name 'bradk' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'bradk' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown bradk: Present+ Brad_Kemper ←
15:40:38 <tzviya> present+ Tzviya
Tzviya Siegman: present+ Tzviya ←
15:40:53 <Karen> Present+ Karen_Myers
Karen Myers: Present+ Karen_Myers ←
15:42:36 <ivan> Present+ Alan_Stearns
Ivan Herman: Present+ Alan_Stearns ←
15:43:17 <Bill_Kasdorf> We will not try to mimic CSS WG
We will not try to mimic CSS WG ←
15:43:28 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... instead we need to undestand the roadmap of how to get there.
... instead we need to undestand the roadmap of how to get there. ←
15:43:38 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Many different ways to approach this.
... Many different ways to approach this. ←
15:44:01 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... DPIG needs to understand what is the _best_ way to accomplish what we need to do.
... DPIG needs to understand what is the _best_ way to accomplish what we need to do. ←
15:44:13 <Bill_Kasdorf> Both WGs have a problem of resource scarcity.
Both WGs have a problem of resource scarcity. ←
15:44:27 <Bill_Kasdorf> We hope this pagination issue may help us recruit new people
We hope this pagination issue may help us recruit new people ←
15:44:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... especially new people who can contribute insights as to pagination requirements.
... especially new people who can contribute insights as to pagination requirements. ←
15:44:56 <Bill_Kasdorf> There is no canonical document regarding pagination.
There is no canonical document regarding pagination. ←
15:45:16 <Bill_Kasdorf> This is a problem for the WGs because they need to be told more clearly what the issues are.
This is a problem for the WGs because they need to be told more clearly what the issues are. ←
15:45:40 <Bill_Kasdorf> We will avoid low-level discussions about CSS syntax.
We will avoid low-level discussions about CSS syntax. ←
15:45:51 <Bill_Kasdorf> We want to have a clear roadmap at the end of this session.
We want to have a clear roadmap at the end of this session. ←
15:46:09 <Bill_Kasdorf> Daniel: First step is to define what is meant by pagination.
Daniel Schwabe: First step is to define what is meant by pagination. ←
15:46:16 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Need a definition of what is a page.
... Need a definition of what is a page. ←
15:46:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... seems like an obvious question with an obvious answer but it isn't.
... seems like an obvious question with an obvious answer but it isn't. ←
15:46:33 <ivan> Present+ Ben_De_Meester
Ivan Herman: Present+ Ben_De_Meester ←
15:46:46 <Bill_Kasdorf> ...How do you interact with a page, view a page, etc.?
...How do you interact with a page, view a page, etc.? ←
15:47:03 <ivan> Present+ Charles_LaPierre
Ivan Herman: Present+ Charles_LaPierre ←
15:47:17 <Bill_Kasdorf> Daniel: transition between pages is undefined and badly needed.
Daniel Schwabe: transition between pages is undefined and badly needed. ←
15:47:41 <Bill_Kasdorf> . . . not strictly related to "pages" but an essential aspect of what we need to deal with.
. . . not strictly related to "pages" but an essential aspect of what we need to deal with. ←
15:48:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> ...intersection between device industries and publishing is key.
...intersection between device industries and publishing is key. ←
15:48:28 <Bill_Kasdorf> Dave: We absolutely need to address all users.
Dave Cramer: We absolutely need to address all users. ←
15:49:29 <Bill_Kasdorf> Dave: presentation--unfortunately since the Web lacks native pagination he can't just put this online. . . . ;-)
Dave Cramer: presentation--unfortunately since the Web lacks native pagination he can't just put this online. . . . ;-) ←
15:50:05 <ivan> Present+ Liam_Quin
Ivan Herman: Present+ Liam_Quin ←
15:50:09 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... this presentation is geared for people who may not have deep knowledge of either the technology or the publishing requirements.
... this presentation is geared for people who may not have deep knowledge of either the technology or the publishing requirements. ←
15:50:40 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Pagination addresses need for content that doesn't just fit on a stone tablet: even God realized that. ;-)
... Pagination addresses need for content that doesn't just fit on a stone tablet: even God realized that. ;-) ←
15:50:48 <tzviya> presnt+ Tzviya_Siegman
Tzviya Siegman: presnt+ Tzviya_Siegman ←
15:50:56 <Bill_Kasdorf> ...How to deal with content that "doesn't fit"?
...How to deal with content that "doesn't fit"? ←
15:51:15 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Most common response on the web is to scroll.
... Most common response on the web is to scroll. ←
15:51:45 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... In some contexts the best user experience is to paginate, move the additional content to a new "page."
... In some contexts the best user experience is to paginate, move the additional content to a new "page." ←
15:52:23 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... This also involves the need to hyphenate (when a word doesn't fit) which requires hyphenation rules and dictionaries.
... This also involves the need to hyphenate (when a word doesn't fit) which requires hyphenation rules and dictionaries. ←
15:52:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> ...So what is the arrangement of the pages in virtual or physical space?
...So what is the arrangement of the pages in virtual or physical space? ←
15:53:09 <Bill_Kasdorf> ...Horizontal? LtR? Vertical?
...Horizontal? LtR? Vertical? ←
15:53:16 <Bill_Kasdorf> ...Spreads?
...Spreads? ←
15:53:52 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Useful to be able to view multiple pages that are not necessarily contiguous in the linear flow.
... Useful to be able to view multiple pages that are not necessarily contiguous in the linear flow. ←
15:54:23 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... CSS has already done quite a bit of work on how to break up the content: "Fragmentation."
... CSS has already done quite a bit of work on how to break up the content: "Fragmentation." ←
15:54:47 <Bill_Kasdorf> ...CSS Fragmentation Module Level 3 latest draft is Jan 2014.
...CSS Fragmentation Module Level 3 latest draft is Jan 2014. ←
15:55:12 <Bill_Kasdorf> ...Overflow piece for how pagination is triggered and what the rules are for chunking content into discrete pieces.
...Overflow piece for how pagination is triggered and what the rules are for chunking content into discrete pieces. ←
15:55:24 <Bill_Kasdorf> ...We also need to define how one interacts with pages.
...We also need to define how one interacts with pages. ←
15:55:42 <Bill_Kasdorf> ...Brady put together a bunch of use cases for page representation in the DOM, or perhaps Boxtree.
...Brady put together a bunch of use cases for page representation in the DOM, or perhaps Boxtree. ←
15:56:13 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Mechanism for accessing pages, displaying multiple pages, various arrangements, etc.
... Mechanism for accessing pages, displaying multiple pages, various arrangements, etc. ←
15:56:37 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Plus the need to _identify_ what page you are on, what page you want to navigate to, etc.
... Plus the need to _identify_ what page you are on, what page you want to navigate to, etc. ←
15:57:04 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Page transitions (within and between documents).
... Page transitions (within and between documents). ←
15:57:19 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Content based on position (e.g. top or bottom of page).
... Content based on position (e.g. top or bottom of page). ←
15:57:27 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Retaining positoin when font size changes.
... Retaining positoin when font size changes. ←
15:57:31 <bjdmeest> Present+ Ben De Meester
Ben De Meester: Present+ Ben De Meester ←
15:57:31 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... User overrides.
... User overrides. ←
15:58:09 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Fundamental principle of DPIG is user must have some control of the presentation.
... Fundamental principle of DPIG is user must have some control of the presentation. ←
15:58:33 <ivan> Present+ Peter_Linss
Ivan Herman: Present+ Peter_Linss ←
15:58:57 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... [showed a simple structural diagram of the DOM]
... [showed a simple structural diagram of the DOM] ←
15:59:47 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... and diagram of how the html parser creates the DOM, the css parser creates the CSS Object Model, and the content is rendered.
... and diagram of how the html parser creates the DOM, the css parser creates the CSS Object Model, and the content is rendered. ←
16:00:38 <Bill_Kasdorf> ...and then a diagram showing the interactions between the DOM tree and the CSS, and how CSS builds the rendering.
...and then a diagram showing the interactions between the DOM tree and the CSS, and how CSS builds the rendering. ←
16:01:24 <Karen> q+
Karen Myers: q+ ←
16:01:28 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... The Path Forward: How do we bring pagination to the web natively?
... The Path Forward: How do we bring pagination to the web natively? ←
16:01:34 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:01:37 <mgylling> ack Karen
Markus Gylling: ack Karen ←
16:02:09 <Bill_Kasdorf> Karen: Question about the spread slide, clarifying what is meant by spreadsd.
Karen Myers: Question about the spread slide, clarifying what is meant by spreadsd. ←
16:02:10 <glazou_> q?
Scribe problem: the name 'glazou_' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'glazou_' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown glazou_: q? ←
16:02:43 <TimCole> q+
Timothy Cole: q+ ←
16:03:41 <TimCole> q-
Timothy Cole: q- ←
16:03:58 <mgylling> ack liam
Markus Gylling: ack liam ←
16:03:58 <Zakim> liam, you wanted to note user prefs can also be real a11y needs
Zakim IRC Bot: liam, you wanted to note user prefs can also be real a11y needs ←
16:04:11 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill: Some types of content (textbooks, magazines) have objects that extend across a spread.
Bill Kasdorf: Some types of content (textbooks, magazines) have objects that extend across a spread. ←
16:04:30 <mgylling> ack Tim
Markus Gylling: ack Tim ←
16:04:41 <dkaplan3> q+
Deborah Kaplan: q+ ←
16:05:13 <tzviya> q+
Tzviya Siegman: q+ ←
16:05:41 <mgylling> ack tzviya
Markus Gylling: ack tzviya ←
16:06:38 <mgylling> ack dkaplan
Markus Gylling: ack dkaplan ←
16:07:30 <azaroth> q+ to note scrolling pages
Robert Sanderson: q+ to note scrolling pages ←
16:09:13 <mgylling> ack azaroth
Markus Gylling: ack azaroth ←
16:09:13 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to note scrolling pages
Zakim IRC Bot: azaroth, you wanted to note scrolling pages ←
16:11:23 <liam> [ http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4jxNVJYcT40/T1lYMlD-QtI/AAAAAAAAdmA/Z690oSQDeu0/s1600/photo-745957.JPG ]
Liam Quin: [ http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4jxNVJYcT40/T1lYMlD-QtI/AAAAAAAAdmA/Z690oSQDeu0/s1600/photo-745957.JPG ] ←
16:11:25 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:16:30 <ivan> q+
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:16:37 <astearns> q+
Alan Stearns: q+ ←
16:17:37 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:18:05 <mgylling> ack ivan
Markus Gylling: ack ivan ←
16:18:59 <bobtung> dpub agenda: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/TPAC2014-F2F
Scribe problem: the name 'bobtung' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'bobtung' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown bobtung: dpub agenda: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/TPAC2014-F2F ←
16:19:10 <tzviya_> fragmentanors
Tzviya Siegman: fragmentanors ←
16:19:15 <bobtung> wrong channel sorry
Scribe problem: the name 'bobtung' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'bobtung' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown bobtung: wrong channel sorry ←
16:20:47 <Bill_Kasdorf> menu Status #dpubX [Agenda: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/TPAC2014-F2F] [11:37] == Bill_Kasdorf [~Bill_Kasdorf@public.cloak] has joined #dpub [11:38] == dauwhe [~dauwhe@public.cloak] has joined #dpub [11:38] <ivan> zakim, dial seattle [11:38] <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I don't know what conference this is [11:38] <ivan> zakim, this is DPUB [11:38] <Zakim> ivan, I see DPUB_IG()11:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be[CUT]
menu Status #dpubX [Agenda: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/TPAC2014-F2F] [11:37] == Bill_Kasdorf [~Bill_Kasdorf@public.cloak] has joined #dpub [11:38] == dauwhe [~dauwhe@public.cloak] has joined #dpub [11:38] <ivan> zakim, dial seattle [11:38] <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I don't know what conference this is [11:38] <ivan> zakim, this is DPUB [11:38] <Zakim> ivan, I see DPUB_IG()11:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be[CUT] ←
16:21:07 <Karen> rrsagent, draft minutes
Karen Myers: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:21:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html Karen
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html Karen ←
16:21:57 <azaroth> q?
Robert Sanderson: q? ←
16:22:18 <tzviya_> glazou: automotive industry, want to have multiple documents with ability to "flip" through, similar to ebooks but differenrt
Scribe problem: the name 'glazou' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown glazou: automotive industry, want to have multiple documents with ability to "flip" through, similar to ebooks but differenrt [ Scribe Assist by Tzviya Siegman ] ←
16:22:43 <Bert> (And LG's round watch, presented at a break-out ysterday)
Bert Bos: (And LG's round watch, presented at a break-out ysterday) ←
16:22:52 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:23:08 <mgylling> ack astearns
Markus Gylling: ack astearns ←
16:24:18 <bradk> some related CSS drafts: http://www.w3.org/TR/css-overflow-3/ http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-break http://www.w3.org/TR/css-shapes-1/ http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-regions http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-multicol http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-page
Scribe problem: the name 'bradk' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'bradk' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown bradk: some related CSS drafts: http://www.w3.org/TR/css-overflow-3/ http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-break http://www.w3.org/TR/css-shapes-1/ http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-regions http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-multicol http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-page ←
16:24:27 <ivan> scribenick: tzviya_
(Scribe set to Tzviya Siegman)
16:24:48 <tzviya_> alan: opera has implemented regions to accomplish some of this, such as knowledge of location ("page")
Scribe problem: the name 'alan' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Alan Tam Alan Stearns . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown alan: opera has implemented high-level overflow:paged. IE and Safari have implemented regions to accomplish some of this, such as knowledge of location ("page") ←
16:25:05 <tzviya_> ...hope other browsers will adopt
...hope other browsers will adopt ←
16:25:17 <ivan> q?
Ivan Herman: q? ←
16:25:30 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Deborah: we've been able to hack pagination models since practically the beginning of the web
Deborah Kaplan: we've been able to hack pagination models since practically the beginning of the web [ Scribe Assist by Bill Kasdorf ] ←
16:25:51 <ivan> scribenick: Bill_Kasdorf_
(Scribe set to Bill Kasdorf)
16:26:27 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:26:31 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Dave: The developments in IE and Safari reduce the amount of work you need to do to accomplish thisl
Dave Cramer: The developments in IE and Safari reduce the amount of work you need to do to accomplish thisl ←
16:26:50 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Deborah: this solves some but not all of the issues we're talking about.
Deborah Kaplan: this solves some but not all of the issues we're talking about. ←
16:27:06 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:27:19 <tzviya_> q+
Tzviya Siegman: q+ ←
16:27:31 <mgylling> ack liam
Markus Gylling: ack liam ←
16:27:31 <Zakim> liam, you wanted to mention XSL-FO closing, techdoc
Zakim IRC Bot: liam, you wanted to mention XSL-FO closing, techdoc ←
16:28:15 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Liam: We have closed the XSL-FO working group; in fact I did that: nobody was showing up for the meetings.
Liam Quin: We have closed the XSL-FO working group; in fact I did that: nobody was showing up for the meetings. ←
16:28:29 <ivan> scribenick: tzviya_
(Scribe set to Tzviya Siegman)
16:28:38 <astearns> s/opera has/opera has implemented high-level overflow:paged. IE and Safari have/
16:28:39 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... The other reason was that it was clear that the longterm future was to make CSS do what can be done with XSL-FO
Bill Kasdorf: ... The other reason was that it was clear that the longterm future was to make CSS do what can be done with XSL-FO ←
16:28:59 <ivan> scribenick: Bill_Kasdorf_
(Scribe set to Bill Kasdorf)
16:29:40 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... So I closed FO and joined the CSS WG and gave a presentation, afraid there would be a huge push-back re getting CSS to where FO was
... So I closed FO and joined the CSS WG and gave a presentation, afraid there would be a huge push-back re getting CSS to where FO was ←
16:29:58 <Bill_Kasdorf_> In fact there was good support in the CSS WG because they want to be able to produce professional quality typography.
In fact there was good support in the CSS WG because they want to be able to produce professional quality typography. ←
16:30:13 <Bill_Kasdorf_> CSS is moving to replace ad hoc features with underlying mechanisms: big change.
CSS is moving to replace ad hoc features with underlying mechanisms: big change. ←
16:30:23 <Bill_Kasdorf_> E.g. we have flexbox and regions coming.
E.g. we have flexbox and regions coming. ←
16:30:42 <Bill_Kasdorf_> So we have an opportunity for redefining some of the mechanisms in CSS by which pagination happens
So we have an opportunity for redefining some of the mechanisms in CSS by which pagination happens ←
16:30:53 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... having an underlying consistent mechanism.
... having an underlying consistent mechanism. ←
16:31:05 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... reinforced by needs of ebooks.
... reinforced by needs of ebooks. ←
16:31:12 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... early days but looking very promising.
... early days but looking very promising. ←
16:31:26 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Michael: AntennaHouse supports CSS for pagination.
Michael Miller: AntennaHouse supports CSS for pagination. ←
16:32:01 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... At the same time, FO is very alive and strong in the user market: several thousand FO implementations, 10,000+, 100,000+ licenses.
... At the same time, FO is very alive and strong in the user market: several thousand FO implementations, 10,000+, 100,000+ licenses. ←
16:32:10 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Right now FO sales are stronger than ever.
... Right now FO sales are stronger than ever. ←
16:32:25 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... So despite our commitment to CSS we are committed to FO.
... So despite our commitment to CSS we are committed to FO. ←
16:32:34 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Would like to see FO revitalized in the W3C.
... Would like to see FO revitalized in the W3C. ←
16:33:05 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Nine years ago in Heidelberg AH advocated bringing FO and CSS together and got crucified.
... Nine years ago in Heidelberg AH advocated bringing FO and CSS together and got crucified. ←
16:33:05 <tzviya_> q-
Tzviya Siegman: q- ←
16:33:14 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... We would like to make that suggestion again now.
... We would like to make that suggestion again now. ←
16:33:43 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Markus: am I hearing that you are advocating moving feature set of FO to CSS or actually reviving FO?
Markus Gylling: am I hearing that you are advocating moving feature set of FO to CSS or actually reviving FO? ←
16:34:15 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Michael: actually both. Massive installed base (e.g., almost entire aerospace industry) uses FO and is not going to move off it.
Michael Miller: actually both. Massive installed base (e.g., almost entire aerospace industry) uses FO and is not going to move off it. ←
16:34:25 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:34:29 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Thousands of existing implementations that aren't going to change.
... Thousands of existing implementations that aren't going to change. ←
16:34:36 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Feature set of FO is what's needed in CSS.
Feature set of FO is what's needed in CSS. ←
16:34:38 <ivan> ack liam
Ivan Herman: ack liam ←
16:34:38 <Zakim> liam, you wanted to note FO is also based on CSS
Zakim IRC Bot: liam, you wanted to note FO is also based on CSS ←
16:35:10 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Liam: FO uses CSS properties and adds region and page properties. CSS was not a recommendation when FO was first published.
Liam Quin: FO uses CSS properties and adds region and page properties. CSS was not a recommendation when FO was first published. ←
16:35:24 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... So CSS properties are put in line with regions and flows.
... So CSS properties are put in line with regions and flows. ←
16:35:38 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Antenna House has a lot of extensions that are also important.
... Antenna House has a lot of extensions that are also important. ←
16:35:54 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Michael: In AH documentation we show alignment between FO and CSS.
Michael Miller: In AH documentation we show alignment between FO and CSS. ←
16:35:56 <dauwhe> q+
Dave Cramer: q+ ←
16:36:15 <mgylling> ack ivan
Markus Gylling: ack ivan ←
16:36:23 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Offers copy of Formatter to members for non-commercial use.
... Offers copy of Formatter to members for non-commercial use. ←
16:36:54 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Ivan: remember that we don't want to get too far down the technical path in this IG
Ivan Herman: remember that we don't want to get too far down the technical path in this IG ←
16:37:50 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Ivan: What can this IG do to help those in CSS who want to move forward on this?
Ivan Herman: What can this IG do to help those in CSS who want to move forward on this? ←
16:37:55 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:38:12 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Bert: Writing up the requirements as Dave has done is very valuable.
Bert Bos: Writing up the requirements as Dave has done is very valuable. ←
16:38:21 <glazou> q+
Scribe problem: the name 'glazou' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'glazou' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown glazou: q+ ←
16:38:29 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... The use cases are very good.
... The use cases are very good. ←
16:38:44 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Also, come and give demos of things you like, need to do, etc.
... Also, come and give demos of things you like, need to do, etc. ←
16:39:11 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... They need to understand that pagination is not just breaking documents into fragments. It's much more than that.
... They need to understand that pagination is not just breaking documents into fragments. It's much more than that. ←
16:39:16 <mgylling> ack dauwhe
Markus Gylling: ack dauwhe ←
16:39:39 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Dave: A lot of this is in LatinReq. What else is being looked for that is not in LatinReq?
Dave Cramer: A lot of this is in LatinReq. What else is being looked for that is not in LatinReq? ←
16:40:43 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... In CSS, Fragmentation, Overflow, CSS Pages > Template, CSS Box Model, and Page Transitions and Navigations are being worked on.
... In CSS, Fragmentation, Overflow, CSS Pages > Template, CSS Box Model, and Page Transitions and Navigations are being worked on. ←
16:41:09 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... DPIG can provide a lot of insight into how these things can best be accomplished.
... DPIG can provide a lot of insight into how these things can best be accomplished. ←
16:41:25 <bobtung> I think Latin LReq is on i18n review list https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar
Scribe problem: the name 'bobtung' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'bobtung' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown bobtung: I think Latin LReq is on i18n review list https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar ←
16:41:46 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Dave: what else is needed from the user community to move things along?
Dave Cramer: what else is needed from the user community to move things along? ←
16:41:53 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:41:57 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Michael: has there been any attention to digital rights?
Michael Miller: has there been any attention to digital rights? ←
16:42:04 <mgylling> ack daniel
Markus Gylling: ack daniel ←
16:42:07 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Dave: no. That's out of scope for what we're working on.
Dave Cramer: no. That's out of scope for what we're working on. ←
16:42:33 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Daniel: Remember that DPIG is an interest group, not a working group.
Daniel Schwabe: Remember that DPIG is an interest group, not a working group. ←
16:42:52 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... We have to make a strong use case for doing this on a broad scope.
... We have to make a strong use case for doing this on a broad scope. ←
16:42:58 <azaroth> +1 to Daniel's suggestion
Robert Sanderson: +1 to Daniel's suggestion ←
16:43:13 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Ivan: We have LatinReq that mostly addresses a corner of the broader use case.
Ivan Herman: We have LatinReq that mostly addresses a corner of the broader use case. ←
16:43:31 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Dave: we need a document called CarReq ;-)
Dave Cramer: we need a document called CarReq ;-) ←
16:43:56 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Daniel: No, that's not what I'm saying. We need to document number of tools, actors, size of market, number of players, etc.
Daniel Schwabe: No, that's not what I'm saying. We need to document number of tools, actors, size of market, number of players, etc. ←
16:44:10 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... To show that there are a whole bunch of new users that need these things.
... To show that there are a whole bunch of new users that need these things. ←
16:44:24 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Then sure, for each of these industries, list what the gaps are.
... Then sure, for each of these industries, list what the gaps are. ←
16:44:53 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Then, at the end of the document, have a table listing all the features and all the industries that need each one.
... Then, at the end of the document, have a table listing all the features and all the industries that need each one. ←
16:44:53 <Bert> q+ to ask to also define what is *not* expected of CSS and edge cases (keeping position in a document, annotating...)
Bert Bos: q+ to ask to also define what is *not* expected of CSS and edge cases (keeping position in a document, annotating...) ←
16:45:05 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Ivan: Huge amount of work, but I understand.
Ivan Herman: Huge amount of work, but I understand. ←
16:45:20 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... But to make it complete it should not be just from Digital Publishing.
... But to make it complete it should not be just from Digital Publishing. ←
16:45:30 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:45:37 <mgylling> ack glazou
Markus Gylling: ack glazou ←
16:45:40 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Daniel: Automotive group may not be addressing this but automotive _industry_ needs it.
Daniel Schwabe: Automotive group may not be addressing this but automotive _industry_ needs it. ←
16:46:48 <Karen> q+
Karen Myers: q+ ←
16:46:53 <tzviya_> q+
Tzviya Siegman: q+ ←
16:47:54 <mgylling> ack Bert
Markus Gylling: ack Bert ←
16:47:55 <Zakim> Bert, you wanted to ask to also define what is *not* expected of CSS and edge cases (keeping position in a document, annotating...)
Zakim IRC Bot: Bert, you wanted to ask to also define what is *not* expected of CSS and edge cases (keeping position in a document, annotating...) ←
16:48:02 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Bill: Advocate a broader understanding of what is meant by publishing.
Bill Kasdorf: Advocate a broader understanding of what is meant by publishing. ←
16:48:24 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Dave: concerned that if it is so broad that it is everything people do on the Web it becomes meaninglessl
Dave Cramer: concerned that if it is so broad that it is everything people do on the Web it becomes meaninglessl ←
16:48:31 <mgylling> ack Karen
Markus Gylling: ack Karen ←
16:48:56 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:49:04 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Karen: building on what Daniel said about automotive, we are having conversations with a number of industries (healthcare, aerospace, etc.) that all recognize that they have publishing needs.
Karen Myers: building on what Daniel said about automotive, we are having conversations with a number of industries (healthcare, aerospace, etc.) that all recognize that they have publishing needs. ←
16:49:17 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... How do we get the conversation to happen between these groups?
... How do we get the conversation to happen between these groups? ←
16:49:29 <mgylling> ack tzviya
Markus Gylling: ack tzviya ←
16:50:10 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Tzviya: We don't want philosophical conversations about what "publishing" is or what a "book" is. That doesn't really matter.
Tzviya Siegman: We don't want philosophical conversations about what "publishing" is or what a "book" is. That doesn't really matter. ←
16:50:15 <mgylling> ack ivan
Markus Gylling: ack ivan ←
16:50:24 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ...
... ←
16:50:34 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... we need to understand who needs to work on this.
... we need to understand who needs to work on this. ←
16:50:48 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Ivan: we do have contact with people who are more on the business side.
Ivan Herman: we do have contact with people who are more on the business side. ←
16:51:05 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... could use LatinReq as a model and try to match that up with what their needs are.
... could use LatinReq as a model and try to match that up with what their needs are. ←
16:51:17 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Realistically we have to start with the industry we have around the table.
... Realistically we have to start with the industry we have around the table. ←
16:51:39 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Once the document is done, then make an outreach to Boeing, etc.
... Once the document is done, then make an outreach to Boeing, etc. ←
16:52:07 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Detailed business case must start with the publishing industry as now represented in the DPIG.
... Detailed business case must start with the publishing industry as now represented in the DPIG. ←
16:52:44 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Daniel: Showed a "state of art" document, not technical, addressing issues like "What is a Page Transition?"
Daniel Schwabe: Showed a "state of art" document, not technical, addressing issues like "What is a Page Transition?" ←
16:53:53 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Included examples going back to IE9, PowerPoint, etc. which provide a lot of insight into how the needs are remarkably coherent and could be standardized.
... Included examples going back to IE9, PowerPoint, etc. which provide a lot of insight into how the needs are remarkably coherent and could be standardized. ←
16:54:51 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Some transitions are extremely complex, need very detailed descriptions.
... Some transitions are extremely complex, need very detailed descriptions. ←
16:55:02 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... We need the spec to be "extremely human-readable."
... We need the spec to be "extremely human-readable." ←
16:55:23 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Comparing Keynote to PowerPoint is instructive.
... Comparing Keynote to PowerPoint is instructive. ←
16:55:37 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Looking at electronic books is part of the picture.
... Looking at electronic books is part of the picture. ←
16:56:00 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Widgets, connected appliances in industry is an issue.
... Widgets, connected appliances in industry is an issue. ←
16:56:14 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... And he provided suggested action.
... And he provided suggested action. ←
16:56:43 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... What is missing is the business part, what is the size of these industries, how many millions of users are waiting for these things?
... What is missing is the business part, what is the size of these industries, how many millions of users are waiting for these things? ←
16:57:22 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Markus: We are looking for work items. Bert made two suggestions. PageReq plus come and give demos.
Markus Gylling: We are looking for work items. Bert made two suggestions. PageReq plus come and give demos. ←
16:57:40 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Need for people to see demos, say "oh, now I see what you mean."
... Need for people to see demos, say "oh, now I see what you mean." ←
16:58:38 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Ivan: Is it possible to post Dave's demos?
Ivan Herman: Is it possible to post Dave's demos? ←
16:58:57 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... through our website? would that help?
... through our website? would that help? ←
16:59:03 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Bert: yes, sure.
16:59:19 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Ivan: Not having it only at a meeting, but generally available.
Ivan Herman: Not having it only at a meeting, but generally available. ←
16:59:34 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... Let's do that. We can build this from what we've got.
... Let's do that. We can build this from what we've got. ←
16:59:59 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Markus: We need to understand the overall scope first.
Markus Gylling: We need to understand the overall scope first. ←
17:00:06 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... What else?
... What else? ←
17:00:28 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Daniel: In my opinion, the business case.
Daniel Schwabe: In my opinion, the business case. ←
17:00:42 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Markus: Do you need editors who understand these issues deeply?
Markus Gylling: Do you need editors who understand these issues deeply? ←
17:00:49 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Daniel: yes, badly.
Daniel Schwabe: yes, badly. ←
17:01:04 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
17:02:19 <tzviya_> bill_kasdorf: there is not really a difference between what tzviya and daniel are tzviya are saying
Bill Kasdorf: there is not really a difference between what tzviya and daniel are tzviya are saying [ Scribe Assist by Tzviya Siegman ] ←
17:03:00 <tzviya_> ...other industries may be a subset of publishing inudustry
Tzviya Siegman: ...other industries may be a subset of publishing inudustry ←
17:03:26 <tzviya_> ...start with publishing, then go to other industies and ask what's missing
Tzviya Siegman: ...start with publishing, then go to other industies and ask what's missing ←
17:03:32 <dkaplan3> q+
Deborah Kaplan: q+ ←
17:03:38 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:05:01 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
17:05:07 <mgylling> ack dkaplan
Markus Gylling: ack dkaplan ←
17:05:09 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Markus: We need to answer Dave's question about what is needed in the PageReq requirement.
Markus Gylling: We need to answer Dave's question about what is needed in the PageReq requirement. ←
17:05:51 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Deborah: All in favor of getting others at the table, but if you define publishing as anything people do on the web, you're talking about the W3C
Deborah Kaplan: All in favor of getting others at the table, but if you define publishing as anything people do on the web, you're talking about the W3C ←
17:06:06 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Markus: we have to work with what we have.
Markus Gylling: we have to work with what we have. ←
17:06:13 <mgylling> ack ivan
Markus Gylling: ack ivan ←
17:06:26 <Bill_Kasdorf_> ... We can't have a dependency on the broad scope at the outset or we will never get it done.
... We can't have a dependency on the broad scope at the outset or we will never get it done. ←
17:07:01 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
17:07:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html ivan
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html ivan ←
17:07:07 <ivan> scribenick: Karen
(Scribe set to Karen Myers)
17:25:12 <Bill_Kasdorf_> Ivan: We need real action, things we can do now.
(No events recorded for 18 minutes)
Ivan Herman: We need real action, things we can do now. [ Scribe Assist by Bill Kasdorf ] ←
17:25:24 <Karen> Scribenick: karen
17:25:33 <Karen> Markus: In order to have concrete marching orders
Markus Gylling: In order to have concrete marching orders ←
17:25:40 <Karen> …we have identified the page req document
…we have identified the page req document ←
17:25:52 <Karen> …to describe pagination requirements first for digital publishing
…to describe pagination requirements first for digital publishing ←
17:25:57 <Karen> …automotive is not a dependency
…automotive is not a dependency ←
17:26:08 <Karen> …we'll reach out for review, but we will start with digpub as we know today
…we'll reach out for review, but we will start with digpub as we know today ←
17:26:17 <Karen> …Dave, you indicated some confusion or concerns
…Dave, you indicated some confusion or concerns ←
17:26:25 <Karen> …to get started, would you verbalize again please
…to get started, would you verbalize again please ←
17:26:32 <Karen> Dave: hard to talk about things that confuse me
Dave Cramer: hard to talk about things that confuse me ←
17:26:37 <Karen> …latin req
…latin req ←
17:26:42 <Karen> …is talking quite a bit about what factors
…is talking quite a bit about what factors ←
17:26:54 <Karen> …we're thinking about and what rules we apply as we break content in pages
…we're thinking about and what rules we apply as we break content in pages ←
17:27:09 <Karen> …constraints on page depth; want base lines to be the same on consecutive pages, especially on spread
…constraints on page depth; want base lines to be the same on consecutive pages, especially on spread ←
17:27:19 <Karen> …widows and orphans
…widows and orphans ←
17:27:31 <Karen> ..breaking lines and a reading experience; issues of keep width
..breaking lines and a reading experience; issues of keep width ←
17:27:43 <Karen> …not separate the heading from the content because it confuses the reader
…not separate the heading from the content because it confuses the reader ←
17:27:57 <Karen> …There is an initial discussion…I think of those things as requirements for pagination
…There is an initial discussion…I think of those things as requirements for pagination ←
17:28:10 <Karen> …they are describing where it's appropriate to break content
…they are describing where it's appropriate to break content ←
17:28:17 <Karen> …and what we think about as we make these breaks
…and what we think about as we make these breaks ←
17:28:28 <Karen> …and paginate in a way that is as reasonable as possible
…and paginate in a way that is as reasonable as possible ←
17:28:37 <Karen> Bill: hyphenation included?
Bill Kasdorf: hyphenation included? ←
17:28:49 <Karen> Dave: to some extent; where can I go from one line box to another
Dave Cramer: to some extent; where can I go from one line box to another ←
17:28:55 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
17:28:58 <Karen> …concept of @ hyphen
…concept of @ hyphen ←
17:29:10 <Karen> …I have to turn page before reading a single word
…I have to turn page before reading a single word ←
17:29:17 <Karen> Bill: even within Latin languages, in German
Bill Kasdorf: even within Latin languages, in German ←
17:29:33 <Karen> …when you hyphenate decken, that changes to a k
…when you hyphenate decken, that changes to a k ←
17:29:41 <Karen> …should we exclude that from scope?
…should we exclude that from scope? ←
17:29:45 <Karen> Brady: This is a great document
Brady Duga: This is a great document ←
17:29:55 <Karen> …point of page req is to take it in another direction
…point of page req is to take it in another direction ←
17:30:02 <Karen> …action was on me and that was a mistake
…action was on me and that was a mistake ←
17:30:13 <Karen> …Latin req looks at layout and styling, how to determine breaks
…Latin req looks at layout and styling, how to determine breaks ←
17:30:24 <Karen> …pagination is about reading system; page 27 and how to get reader to read it
…pagination is about reading system; page 27 and how to get reader to read it ←
17:30:33 <Karen> Dave: Closer to the page DOM requirements
Dave Cramer: Closer to the page DOM requirements ←
17:30:44 <Karen> Brady: right; write from the implementer side
Brady Duga: right; write from the implementer side ←
17:30:48 <Karen> …put a URI on top of it
…put a URI on top of it ←
17:30:57 <Karen> Dave: you are describing a spec?
Dave Cramer: you are describing a spec? ←
17:31:06 <Karen> Brady: not necessarily; lots of ways to approach
Brady Duga: not necessarily; lots of ways to approach ←
17:31:17 <Karen> …end of day, I have to show user page 27 after page 26
…end of day, I have to show user page 27 after page 26 ←
17:31:33 <Karen> Ivan: Is this the kind of document that you are looking for Daniel and Peter?
Ivan Herman: Is this the kind of document that you are looking for Daniel and Peter? ←
17:31:38 <Karen> …apart from the business case
…apart from the business case ←
17:31:44 <Karen> …what is the most efficient weapon you need?
…what is the most efficient weapon you need? ←
17:32:14 <Karen> Daniel: Anything that shows the vendors
Daniel Schwabe: Anything that shows the vendors ←
17:32:19 <Karen> …I know it's a balance
…I know it's a balance ←
17:32:30 <Karen> …that we need to extend the platform to meet these feature sets
…that we need to extend the platform to meet these feature sets ←
17:32:38 <Karen> Alan: describing use cases from reading systems
Scribe problem: the name 'Alan' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Alan Tam Alan Stearns . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Alan: describing use cases from reading systems ←
17:32:43 <Karen> …that cannot be done in web platform
…that cannot be done in web platform ←
17:32:48 <Karen> …will be useful to browser vendors
…will be useful to browser vendors ←
17:33:02 <Karen> Peter: I can bring a demo, but I have to bring a PDF instead of CSS
Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Krautzberger Peter Linss . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Peter: I can bring a demo, but I have to bring a PDF instead of CSS ←
17:33:07 <Karen> …if you can bring a demo in CSS, you can do it
…if you can bring a demo in CSS, you can do it ←
17:33:13 <Karen> …bring us things you cannot do in CSS yet
…bring us things you cannot do in CSS yet ←
17:33:23 <Karen> …that will upset the browser mevendors
…that will upset the browser mevendors ←
17:33:40 <Karen> …that's what we need to do; get people angry that they are not using their stuff; needs are not being met
…that's what we need to do; get people angry that they are not using their stuff; needs are not being met ←
17:33:41 <tzviya_> q+
Tzviya Siegman: q+ ←
17:33:46 <Karen> Ivan: Brady is talking about
Ivan Herman: Brady is talking about ←
17:33:49 <Karen> …one step further
…one step further ←
17:33:52 <bkardell_> Is there a link for page stuff just discussed?
Scribe problem: the name 'bkardell_' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'bkardell_' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown bkardell_: Is there a link for page stuff just discussed? ←
17:33:55 <Karen> …you have a group that wants to get away from PDF
…you have a group that wants to get away from PDF ←
17:34:00 <Karen> …and they hit these brick walls
…and they hit these brick walls ←
17:34:04 <Karen> …The two together
…The two together ←
17:34:12 <Karen> …the good examples in PFD and why you cannot implement yet
…the good examples in PFD and why you cannot implement yet ←
17:34:16 <Karen> s/PDF
s/PDF ←
17:34:36 <ivan> ack tzviya_
Ivan Herman: ack tzviya_ ←
17:34:42 <Karen> Tzviya: I think the doc we have now is use cases from publisher's perspective
Tzviya Siegman: I think the doc we have now is use cases from publisher's perspective ←
17:34:48 <Karen> …I want to define widows and orphans that funciton well
…I want to define widows and orphans that funciton well ←
17:34:51 <TimCole> q+
Timothy Cole: q+ ←
17:34:59 <Karen> …and Brady is saying I need to tell reader when she transitions from page 26 to 27
…and Brady is saying I need to tell reader when she transitions from page 26 to 27 ←
17:35:09 <Karen> …and Peter we need to know what you need to tell the reader
…and Peter we need to know what you need to tell the reader ←
17:35:12 <Karen> …both of those?
…both of those? ←
17:35:28 <Karen> Tim: will they work together well is two separate documents
Scribe problem: the name 'Tim' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Tim Clark Timothy Cole . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Tim: will they work together well is two separate documents ←
17:35:34 <Karen> Ivan: Latin req is separate
Ivan Herman: Latin req is separate ←
17:35:39 <Karen> …PDF examples
…PDF examples ←
17:35:42 <Karen> …and the page req
…and the page req ←
17:35:48 <Karen> …whether this is one or two docs
…whether this is one or two docs ←
17:35:58 <Karen> …but as a block, it's an adjacent document to Latin req for me
…but as a block, it's an adjacent document to Latin req for me ←
17:36:10 <Karen> Tim: if we satisfy page req and not Latin req too bad?
Scribe problem: the name 'Tim' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Tim Clark Timothy Cole . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Tim: if we satisfy page req and not Latin req too bad? ←
17:36:19 <Karen> Ivan: no, it's not a page related problem
Ivan Herman: no, it's not a page related problem ←
17:36:26 <Karen> Tim: header and footer are more page oriented
Scribe problem: the name 'Tim' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Tim Clark Timothy Cole . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Tim: header and footer are more page oriented ←
17:36:33 <Karen> Ivan: Latin req is not related to paging
Ivan Herman: Latin req is not related to paging ←
17:36:46 <Karen> Dave: Even paging stuff related to Latin req is to implement in OWP
Dave Cramer: Even paging stuff related to Latin req is to implement in OWP ←
17:36:55 <Karen> …is far beyond the basic pagination we are talking about
…is far beyond the basic pagination we are talking about ←
17:37:08 <TimCole> q-
Timothy Cole: q- ←
17:37:10 <Karen> …would involve going back up the tree
…would involve going back up the tree ←
17:37:16 <Karen> …to fix widows and orphans
…to fix widows and orphans ←
17:37:23 <Karen> …I don't expect that any time soon from OWP
…I don't expect that any time soon from OWP ←
17:37:31 <Karen> …wondering what more we need to describe fragments
…wondering what more we need to describe fragments ←
17:37:37 <Karen> Markus: In Latin req?
Markus Gylling: In Latin req? ←
17:37:43 <Karen> …so there are two questions
…so there are two questions ←
17:37:51 <Karen> …How do we do the page req, with a different perspective
…How do we do the page req, with a different perspective ←
17:38:03 <Karen> ..second are there things from publishing perspective missing from Latin req still
..second are there things from publishing perspective missing from Latin req still ←
17:38:09 <Karen> …Should we take second question first
…Should we take second question first ←
17:38:10 <ivan> q?
Ivan Herman: q? ←
17:38:16 <Karen> …So nothing about spreads, or very limited
…So nothing about spreads, or very limited ←
17:38:23 <Karen> ..I think that is the top-level abstraction to describe
..I think that is the top-level abstraction to describe ←
17:38:29 <Karen> …Chapter five goes into widows and orphans
…Chapter five goes into widows and orphans ←
17:38:38 <Karen> …but the top most abstraction of page, or collection of pages
…but the top most abstraction of page, or collection of pages ←
17:38:42 <Karen> …that has a logical arrangement
…that has a logical arrangement ←
17:38:47 <Karen> Dave: A definition of what spread is
Dave Cramer: A definition of what spread is ←
17:38:58 <Karen> …and some of the constraints of how complex content interacts
…and some of the constraints of how complex content interacts ←
17:39:08 <Karen> …there will be replaced elements that span the spread
…there will be replaced elements that span the spread ←
17:39:13 <Karen> …like a picture that spans across the spread
…like a picture that spans across the spread ←
17:39:20 <Karen> Markus: yes, like a couple of screen shots
Markus Gylling: yes, like a couple of screen shots ←
17:39:27 <Karen> Liam: and a table that runs across a spread
Liam Quin: and a table that runs across a spread ←
17:39:32 <Karen> Markus: So spreads is one thing
Markus Gylling: So spreads is one thing ←
17:39:34 <Karen> …transitions
…transitions ←
17:39:38 <Karen> …should we go into that?
…should we go into that? ←
17:39:50 <Karen> …Comics industry is hypnotized by need for page transitions
…Comics industry is hypnotized by need for page transitions ←
17:39:57 <Karen> …Is it in scope for Latin req; yes or no?
…Is it in scope for Latin req; yes or no? ←
17:40:12 <Karen> Dave: Daniel was talking about these transitions that allow media and transition effects
Dave Cramer: Daniel was talking about these transitions that allow media and transition effects ←
17:40:17 <Karen> …transition ideas in Latin req
…transition ideas in Latin req ←
17:40:23 <Karen> ..more about borders and fragmentation of boxes
..more about borders and fragmentation of boxes ←
17:40:35 <Karen> …what happens to backgrounds when you have side bars from page to page
…what happens to backgrounds when you have side bars from page to page ←
17:40:48 <Karen> …omit top quarter on second fragment to indicate continuity of object as it is fragmented
…omit top quarter on second fragment to indicate continuity of object as it is fragmented ←
17:40:59 <Karen> …At least Latin req documenting a transition
…At least Latin req documenting a transition ←
17:41:04 <Karen> …no craft document to refer to
…no craft document to refer to ←
17:41:11 <Karen> Markus: I don't think we should go there right now
Markus Gylling: I don't think we should go there right now ←
17:41:14 <Karen> Ivan: And it's not
Ivan Herman: And it's not ←
17:41:22 <Karen> …I don't see why this would be Latin language specific
…I don't see why this would be Latin language specific ←
17:41:36 <Karen> Dave; Right; I'm not going to describe fire consuming one page
Dave; Right; I'm not going to describe fire consuming one page ←
17:41:54 <Karen> Markus: Dave, are you willing to take the action about spreads behavior and spread arrangements progression
Markus Gylling: Dave, are you willing to take the action about spreads behavior and spread arrangements progression ←
17:42:09 <Karen> Action: Dave to add new section to Latin req that describes spread behaviors
ACTION: Dave to add new section to Latin req that describes spread behaviors ←
17:42:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-28 - Add new section to latin req that describes spread behaviors [on Dave Cramer - due 2014-11-06].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-28 - Add new section to latin req that describes spread behaviors [on Dave Cramer - due 2014-11-06]. ←
17:42:21 <Karen> Dave: The behavior of elements that cross the gutter
Dave Cramer: The behavior of elements that cross the gutter ←
17:42:28 <Karen> …use the terminology
…use the terminology ←
17:42:35 <Karen> Tim: only spreads from the classic print book?
Scribe problem: the name 'Tim' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Tim Clark Timothy Cole . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Tim: only spreads from the classic print book? ←
17:42:48 <Karen> …print analogs or also the scroll examples, spanning three pages for example?
…print analogs or also the scroll examples, spanning three pages for example? ←
17:42:56 <Karen> Dave: In some sense Latin req is documented print
Dave Cramer: In some sense Latin req is documented print ←
17:43:04 <Karen> …given the scope is already nearly infinite
…given the scope is already nearly infinite ←
17:43:08 <Karen> …sending scope to @
…sending scope to @ ←
17:43:16 <Karen> ….is probably not something...
….is probably not something... ←
17:43:24 <Karen> …fold-outs and documenting idea
…fold-outs and documenting idea ←
17:43:28 <Karen> …that page orientation may change
…that page orientation may change ←
17:43:36 <Karen> Liam: fold-outs give more than a single spread
Liam Quin: fold-outs give more than a single spread ←
17:43:42 <Karen> Dave: spread may be two or more pages
Dave Cramer: spread may be two or more pages ←
17:43:59 <Karen> Markus: Like widows and orphans observation; need to focus on the fundamentals
Markus Gylling: Like widows and orphans observation; need to focus on the fundamentals ←
17:44:05 <Karen> …we can do the funky things some other year
…we can do the funky things some other year ←
17:44:13 <Karen> Dave: Page orientation is not fixed is good to know at this stage
Dave Cramer: Page orientation is not fixed is good to know at this stage ←
17:44:23 <Karen> …so you don't assume something that is no longer going to be true in other situations
…so you don't assume something that is no longer going to be true in other situations ←
17:44:28 <Karen> …not hard code it into your thinking
…not hard code it into your thinking ←
17:44:36 <Karen> Peter: especially items like that
Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Krautzberger Peter Linss . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Peter: especially items like that ←
17:44:46 <Karen> …implementations are easier when you assume page size won't change
…implementations are easier when you assume page size won't change ←
17:45:00 <Karen> …variations and spreads need to be taken into account early on or it will be harder to do later
…variations and spreads need to be taken into account early on or it will be harder to do later ←
17:45:05 <Karen> Dave: Diversity in print
Dave Cramer: Diversity in print ←
17:45:12 <Karen> …is hint of what will happen
…is hint of what will happen ←
17:45:18 <Karen> …address digital use cases now
…address digital use cases now ←
17:45:24 <Karen> …even if from a source with less flexibility
…even if from a source with less flexibility ←
17:45:32 <Karen> Markus: Another use case I heard from a poetry publisher
Markus Gylling: Another use case I heard from a poetry publisher ←
17:45:51 <Karen> …they wanted overflow for poem
…they wanted overflow for poem ←
17:46:04 <Karen> Dave: In length or width?
Dave Cramer: In length or width? ←
17:46:10 <Karen> Tzviya: Can go either way
Tzviya Siegman: Can go either way ←
17:46:14 <Karen> Brady: depends upon language
Brady Duga: depends upon language ←
17:46:21 <Karen> Dave: could happen in both directions
Dave Cramer: could happen in both directions ←
17:46:43 <Karen> Markus: publisher perspective in Latin req; anything else?
Markus Gylling: publisher perspective in Latin req; anything else? ←
17:46:49 <Karen> Peter: Did you cover bleeds?
Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Krautzberger Peter Linss . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Peter: Did you cover bleeds? ←
17:46:51 <Karen> …crop marks/
…crop marks/ ←
17:47:03 <Karen> …when you circulate
…when you circulate ←
17:47:07 <Karen> Dave: CSS page
Dave Cramer: CSS page ←
17:47:15 <Karen> Peter: has been in CSS for a while
Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Krautzberger Peter Linss . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Peter: has been in CSS for a while ←
17:47:19 <Karen> Dave: It got discussed
Dave Cramer: It got discussed ←
17:47:35 <Karen> Markus: but fact that it's implemented does not mean we should not document it
Markus Gylling: but fact that it's implemented does not mean we should not document it ←
17:47:51 <Karen> Dave: right, but I don't want to go into the details for crop and registration marks and bars
Dave Cramer: right, but I don't want to go into the details for crop and registration marks and bars ←
17:48:03 <Karen> Peter: a general note that there are printer marks that are not considered overflow
Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Krautzberger Peter Linss . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Peter: a general note that there are printer marks that are not considered overflow ←
17:48:12 <Karen> …we don't want to trigger overflow mechanisms
…we don't want to trigger overflow mechanisms ←
17:48:14 <Karen> Dave: right
Dave Cramer: right ←
17:48:22 <Karen> …elements that should not trigger overflow
…elements that should not trigger overflow ←
17:48:28 <Karen> Action: Cover bleeds
ACTION: Cover bleeds ←
17:48:29 <trackbot> Error finding 'Cover'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Error finding 'Cover'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>. ←
17:48:36 <Karen> Tzviya: STEM content in general
Tzviya Siegman: STEM content in general ←
17:48:39 <Karen> …a line in equations
…a line in equations ←
17:48:45 <Karen> ..we don't go into detail for styling or math
..we don't go into detail for styling or math ←
17:48:54 <Karen> Markus: pagination or line formatting
Markus Gylling: pagination or line formatting ←
17:49:01 <Karen> Dave: Would like to have in Latin req in future
Dave Cramer: Would like to have in Latin req in future ←
17:49:07 <Karen> …not in pagination right now
…not in pagination right now ←
17:49:15 <Karen> Tzviya: breaking reflow?
Tzviya Siegman: breaking reflow? ←
17:49:26 <Karen> Liam: when you set mathematics, you align all the equal signs vertically
Liam Quin: when you set mathematics, you align all the equal signs vertically ←
17:49:33 <Karen> …some publishers align
…some publishers align ←
17:49:41 <Karen> Tzviya: So we do talk about alignment
Tzviya Siegman: So we do talk about alignment ←
17:49:46 <Karen> Markus: But not an immediate priority
Markus Gylling: But not an immediate priority ←
17:49:50 <Karen> …specific to pagination
…specific to pagination ←
17:49:51 <Karen> Dave: right
Dave Cramer: right ←
17:49:55 <Karen> …spread is specific
…spread is specific ←
17:50:06 <Karen> @: Do we need a border line in the page function?
@: Do we need a border line in the page function? ←
17:50:14 <Karen> …to express this is the right or left hand page?
…to express this is the right or left hand page? ←
17:50:18 <Karen> …now it's empty
…now it's empty ←
17:50:24 <Karen> …some publishers ask us to put the border in
…some publishers ask us to put the border in ←
17:50:29 <Karen> Markus: What do we call this?
Markus Gylling: What do we call this? ←
17:50:36 <Karen> Dave: page gap, gutter
Dave Cramer: page gap, gutter ←
17:50:41 <Karen> Brady: gutter
Brady Duga: gutter ←
17:50:52 <Karen> Markus: that cam up in epub fixed layout
Markus Gylling: that cam up in epub fixed layout ←
17:50:58 <Karen> Brady: there should be a gap
Brady Duga: there should be a gap ←
17:51:13 <Karen> Dave: often we have an infinite array of margins and boxes
Dave Cramer: often we have an infinite array of margins and boxes ←
17:51:33 <Karen> Markus: Any more on Latin req from publisher perspective?
Markus Gylling: Any more on Latin req from publisher perspective? ←
17:51:38 <Karen> …David has his marching orders
…David has his marching orders ←
17:51:49 <Karen> …Would anyone like to sign up to help as an editor or co-editor
…Would anyone like to sign up to help as an editor or co-editor ←
17:51:55 <Karen> Dave: Fame and fortune awaits
Dave Cramer: Fame and fortune awaits ←
17:52:13 <Karen> Brady: what are you looking for?
Brady Duga: what are you looking for? ←
17:52:17 <Karen> …co-editor of Latin req
…co-editor of Latin req ←
17:52:26 <Karen> Markus: Let's move on to page req
Markus Gylling: Let's move on to page req ←
17:52:34 <Karen> …Brady, you were assigned the action item?
…Brady, you were assigned the action item? ←
17:52:38 <Karen> Brady: yes, I was assigned it
Brady Duga: yes, I was assigned it ←
17:52:43 <Karen> …I said I would do it
…I said I would do it ←
17:52:47 <Karen> …I have not yet done it
…I have not yet done it ←
17:52:51 <Karen> …I can attempt to do it
…I can attempt to do it ←
17:53:01 <Karen> …unless someone else wants to write it
…unless someone else wants to write it ←
17:53:09 <Karen> …I have had a busy two months due to time
…I have had a busy two months due to time ←
17:53:16 <Karen> …might be able to get to it soonish
…might be able to get to it soonish ←
17:53:26 <Karen> Markus: Anybody who would like to sign up as a co-editor for page req?
Markus Gylling: Anybody who would like to sign up as a co-editor for page req? ←
17:53:30 <Karen> Markus: I'll sign up
Markus Gylling: I'll sign up ←
17:53:49 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
17:54:03 <Karen> Liam: I cannot be primary editor but will help with process and mechanical reviews
Liam Quin: I cannot be primary editor but will help with process and mechanical reviews ←
17:54:06 <Karen> …I have experience
…I have experience ←
17:54:22 <Karen> Bill: you'll be a contributor
Bill Kasdorf: you'll be a contributor ←
17:54:26 <Karen> Liam: yes
17:54:44 <Karen> Action: Brady to start authoring page req doc with assistance from Markus and Liam
ACTION: Brady to start authoring page req doc with assistance from Markus and Liam ←
17:54:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-29 - Start authoring page req doc with assistance from markus and liam [on Brady Duga - due 2014-11-06].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-29 - Start authoring page req doc with assistance from markus and liam [on Brady Duga - due 2014-11-06]. ←
17:55:03 <Karen> Markus: Is scope of page req clear to you?
Markus Gylling: Is scope of page req clear to you? ←
17:55:07 <Karen> …should we document in the minutes?
…should we document in the minutes? ←
17:55:15 <Karen> …would you like to give a try?
…would you like to give a try? ←
17:55:31 <Karen> Brady: It's the requirements of a reading system implementation for access to certain page and page level elements
Brady Duga: It's the requirements of a reading system implementation for access to certain page and page level elements ←
17:55:40 <Karen> …so you can actually create a reading system
…so you can actually create a reading system ←
17:55:56 <Karen> …and get everything styled in Latin req
…and get everything styled in Latin req ←
17:56:03 <Karen> …elements on pages, initiate transitions
…elements on pages, initiate transitions ←
17:56:13 <Karen> …in some sense turning the use cases into a requirements document
…in some sense turning the use cases into a requirements document ←
17:56:18 <bkardell_> q+
Scribe problem: the name 'bkardell_' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'bkardell_' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown bkardell_: q+ ←
17:56:30 <Karen> Markus: According to the schedule we have four minutes left
Markus Gylling: According to the schedule we have four minutes left ←
17:56:36 <Karen> ack bkardell
ack bkardell ←
17:56:42 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
17:56:54 <Karen> bkardell: First time I have heard of page req
Scribe problem: the name 'bkardell' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown bkardell: First time I have heard of page req ←
17:57:00 <Karen> …is there an existing page?
…is there an existing page? ←
17:57:07 <Karen> Markus: Latin req exist, but not page req
Markus Gylling: Latin req exist, but not page req ←
17:57:13 <Karen> bkardell: ok, just curious
Scribe problem: the name 'bkardell' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown bkardell: ok, just curious ←
17:57:18 <Karen> …I would like to see notes about it
…I would like to see notes about it ←
17:57:22 <Karen> Dave: What I am describing now
Dave Cramer: What I am describing now ←
17:57:27 <Karen> …is some use cases
…is some use cases ←
17:57:42 <Karen> @: Could you go through with me?
Brian Kardell: Could you go through with me? ←
17:57:47 <Karen> Dave: yes, I can do that
Dave Cramer: yes, I can do that ←
17:57:52 <Karen> Ivan: for minutes
Ivan Herman: for minutes ←
17:58:01 <Karen> Brian Kardell, on CSS WG and JQuery Foundation
Brian Kardell, on CSS WG and JQuery Foundation ←
17:58:06 <ivan> Present+ Brian_
Ivan Herman: Present+ Brian_ ←
17:58:09 <ivan> q?
Ivan Herman: q? ←
17:58:13 <Karen> s/@/Brian Kardell
17:58:25 <Karen> Ivan: Thanks, everyone
Ivan Herman: Thanks, everyone ←
17:58:30 <Karen> …while we are on action list
…while we are on action list ←
17:58:32 <Karen> …we also said
…we also said ←
17:58:37 <Karen> …not sure if Brady will include it
…not sure if Brady will include it ←
17:58:44 <tzviya_> use cases for Page Req: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Pagination.2FDOM_interaction
Tzviya Siegman: use cases for Page Req: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Pagination.2FDOM_interaction ←
17:58:46 <Karen> …is to have some striking examples in PDF that we cannot do
…is to have some striking examples in PDF that we cannot do ←
17:58:52 <Karen> …would be a good idea to have
…would be a good idea to have ←
17:58:59 <Karen> Brady: what exactly you are looking at
Brady Duga: what exactly you are looking at ←
17:59:14 <Karen> Ivan: Something Tzviya said, some cases that she has that she can only do in PDF as a publisher
Ivan Herman: Something Tzviya said, some cases that she has that she can only do in PDF as a publisher ←
17:59:22 <Karen> Brady: That sounds like Latin req rather than page req
Brady Duga: That sounds like Latin req rather than page req ←
17:59:32 <Karen> Dave: we're talking about a book store
Dave Cramer: we're talking about a book store ←
17:59:38 <Karen> Liam: Something that speaks to CSS WG well
Liam Quin: Something that speaks to CSS WG well ←
17:59:47 <Karen> …I have noticed is places where you can almost get there from CSS
…I have noticed is places where you can almost get there from CSS ←
17:59:52 <Karen> …so you give an incomplete example
…so you give an incomplete example ←
18:00:02 <Karen> Dave: Like drop caps; could make bad ones but not good ones
Dave Cramer: Like drop caps; could make bad ones but not good ones ←
18:00:13 <Karen> Liam: so then CSS usually says we should fix that
Liam Quin: so then CSS usually says we should fix that ←
18:00:20 <Karen> Tzviya: like books in graphic design
Tzviya Siegman: like books in graphic design ←
18:00:29 <Karen> Bill: focus on main cases not fringe cases
Bill Kasdorf: focus on main cases not fringe cases ←
18:00:39 <Karen> Liam: Group could say it out of scope; give them something simple
Liam Quin: Group could say it out of scope; give them something simple ←
18:00:52 <Karen> …we cannot paginate our own anniversary document
…we cannot paginate our own anniversary document ←
18:01:10 <Karen> Action: Tzviya to provide PDF examples of paginated content that cannot be done online
ACTION: Tzviya to provide PDF examples of paginated content that cannot be done online ←
18:01:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-30 - Provide pdf examples of paginated content that cannot be done online [on Tzviya Siegman - due 2014-11-06].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-30 - Provide pdf examples of paginated content that cannot be done online [on Tzviya Siegman - due 2014-11-06]. ←
18:01:21 <Karen> Ivan: And what should we do with the business case kind of document
Ivan Herman: And what should we do with the business case kind of document ←
18:01:29 <Karen> …The three of us plus Karen will have to talk to people
…The three of us plus Karen will have to talk to people ←
18:01:45 <Karen> Action: Karen to initiate bus use case
ACTION: Karen to initiate bus use case ←
18:01:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-31 - Initiate bus use case [on Karen Myers - due 2014-11-06].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-31 - Initiate bus use case [on Karen Myers - due 2014-11-06]. ←
18:01:52 <Karen> Markus: Logistics
Markus Gylling: Logistics ←
18:01:54 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
18:01:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html ivan
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html ivan ←
18:02:00 <Karen> …Tzviya, you have arranged additional meetings
…Tzviya, you have arranged additional meetings ←
18:02:07 <Karen> Tzviya: I have updated the wiki
Tzviya Siegman: I have updated the wiki ←
18:02:10 <tzviya_> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/TPAC2014-F2F#Mid-day_break_with_ad-hoc_meetings_.28plus_lunch.29
Tzviya Siegman: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/TPAC2014-F2F#Mid-day_break_with_ad-hoc_meetings_.28plus_lunch.29 ←
18:02:19 <Karen> …we have a meeting with Accessible Authoring Group tomorrow at 1pm
…we have a meeting with Accessible Authoring Group tomorrow at 1pm ←
18:02:29 <Karen> …we'll re-arrange schedule slightly tomorrow
…we'll re-arrange schedule slightly tomorrow ←
18:02:38 <Karen> …1:00pm Accessible Authoring tools on 31 October
…1:00pm Accessible Authoring tools on 31 October ←
18:02:43 <Karen> ..everyone is welcome
..everyone is welcome ←
18:02:52 <Karen> …lunch will be 12-1
…lunch will be 12-1 ←
18:03:08 <Karen> Tzviya: Today we convene at 2pm to meet with Protocols and Formats WG
Tzviya Siegman: Today we convene at 2pm to meet with Protocols and Formats WG ←
18:03:18 <Karen> Deborah: So nothing scheduled during break?
Deborah Kaplan: So nothing scheduled during break? ←
18:03:21 <Karen> Tzviya: Correct
Tzviya Siegman: Correct ←
18:03:29 <Karen> Markus: Any final comments on pagination topic?
Markus Gylling: Any final comments on pagination topic? ←
18:03:36 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
18:03:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html ivan
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html ivan ←
18:03:47 <Karen> …Enjoy lunch and see you at 2pm
…Enjoy lunch and see you at 2pm ←
20:55:34 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
(No events recorded for 171 minutes)
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←
20:55:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Seattle
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Seattle ←
20:55:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see fettes, takeshi, ShaneM, ivan, mgylling, clapierre, tzviya, azaroth_, fantasai, mihnea_____, Bert, Zakim, RRSAgent, astearns, dkaplan3, rego, plinss, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see fettes, takeshi, ShaneM, ivan, mgylling, clapierre, tzviya, azaroth_, fantasai, mihnea_____, Bert, Zakim, RRSAgent, astearns, dkaplan3, rego, plinss, trackbot ←
20:59:30 <MichaelC> zakim, code?
Scribe problem: the name 'MichaelC' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'MichaelC' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown MichaelC: zakim, code? ←
20:59:30 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), MichaelC
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), MichaelC ←
21:00:47 <ivan> Chair: Tzviya
21:01:08 <ivan> Topic: Joint meeting with PF WG -- structural semantics
21:03:39 <ivan> zakim, pick a victim
Ivan Herman: zakim, pick a victim ←
21:03:39 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Seattle
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Seattle ←
21:04:12 <ivan> zakim, pick a victim
Ivan Herman: zakim, pick a victim ←
21:04:12 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Seattle
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Seattle ←
21:04:24 <glazou> ROFL
Scribe problem: the name 'glazou' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'glazou' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown glazou: ROFL ←
21:04:51 <liam> scribenick: Liam
(Scribe set to Liam Quin)
21:05:28 <liam> [people introduce one another]
[people introduce one another] ←
21:06:00 <ShaneM> present+ ShaneM
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown ShaneM: present+ ShaneM ←
21:06:07 <mhakkinen> Mark Hakkinen - ETS
Markku Hakkinen: Mark Hakkinen - ETS ←
21:06:23 <ivan> Present+ Mark_Hakkinen
Ivan Herman: Present+ Mark_Hakkinen ←
21:06:34 <Ryladog> present+ Katie Haritos-Shea (as Ryladog)
Scribe problem: the name 'Ryladog' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ryladog' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Ryladog: present+ Katie Haritos-Shea (as Ryladog) ←
21:06:37 <ivan> Present+ Janina_Sajka
Ivan Herman: Present+ Janina_Sajka ←
21:06:55 <jnurthen> Present+ James_Nurthen
Scribe problem: the name 'jnurthen' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jnurthen' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jnurthen: Present+ James_Nurthen ←
21:07:03 <marcjohlic> Marc Johlic - IBM / WCAG
Scribe problem: the name 'marcjohlic' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'marcjohlic' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown marcjohlic: Marc Johlic - IBM / WCAG ←
21:07:29 <ivan> Present+ Richard_Schwerdtfeger
Ivan Herman: Present+ Richard_Schwerdtfeger ←
21:07:39 <ShaneM> https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-10-Agenda#Day_1
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown ShaneM: https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-10-Agenda#Day_1 ←
21:07:42 <ivan> Present+ Marc_Johlic
Ivan Herman: Present+ Marc_Johlic ←
21:07:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html MichaelC
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html MichaelC ←
21:08:43 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
Scribe problem: the name 'joanie' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'joanie' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown joanie: present+ Joanmarie_Diggs ←
21:09:47 <jongund> present+ Jon Gunderson
Scribe problem: the name 'jongund' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jongund' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jongund: present+ Jon Gunderson ←
21:10:01 <ivan> Present+ Rob_Cromwell
Ivan Herman: Present+ Rob_Cromwell ←
21:10:38 <ivan> Present+ Michael_Cooper
Ivan Herman: Present+ Michael_Cooper ←
21:11:24 <ivan> Present+ Shane_McCarron
Ivan Herman: Present+ Shane_McCarron ←
21:11:53 <jongund> present+ jongund
Scribe problem: the name 'jongund' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jongund' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jongund: present+ jongund ←
21:12:03 <jongund> Present+ jongund
Scribe problem: the name 'jongund' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jongund' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jongund: Present+ jongund ←
21:12:23 <liam> tzviya: [gives brief intro to concept of more detailed semantics in HTML markup with role attributes]
Tzviya Siegman: [gives brief intro to concept of more detailed semantics in HTML markup with role attributes] ←
21:14:32 <liam> [projecting: http://w3c.github.io/dpub-content-and-markup/ ]
[projecting: http://w3c.github.io/dpub-content-and-markup/ ] ←
21:15:00 <liam> Janina: [gives example of knowing where a footnote begins and ends, and how to go back to where yu came from even if a footnote is referenced from multiple places in content]
Scribe problem: the name 'Janina' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Janina: [gives example of knowing where a footnote begins and ends, and how to go back to where yu came from even if a footnote is referenced from multiple places in content] ←
21:15:38 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
21:15:42 <liam> tzviya: thanks, associated behaviours is important to mention
Tzviya Siegman: thanks, associated behaviours is important to mention ←
21:15:45 <ivan> q-
Ivan Herman: q- ←
21:16:21 <liam> Rob: are the roles associated only with section element?
Scribe problem: the name 'Rob' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Rob: are the roles associated only with section element? ←
21:16:41 <liam> tzviya: it's up to the author to associate inflection with an element, sections are often nested, so maybe we do need to define an endpoint
Tzviya Siegman: it's up to the author to associate inflection with an element, sections are often nested, so maybe we do need to define an endpoint ←
21:18:10 <liam> [questions about the TF charter]
[questions about the TF charter] ←
21:18:54 <liam> Rob: when do we get started?
Scribe problem: the name 'Rob' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Rob: when do we get started? ←
21:19:01 <liam> Janina: today is good!
Scribe problem: the name 'Janina' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Janina: today is good! ←
21:19:19 <liam> Mark: QTI is question/test interoperability language
Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Mark: QTI is question/test interoperability language ←
21:19:42 <liam> ...used by Pearson and others have thousands and thousands of questions and answers in this XML format.
...used by Pearson and others have thousands and thousands of questions and answers in this XML format. ←
21:19:52 <liam> We want to be able to take some of the semantics we have in QTA into HTML
We want to be able to take some of the semantics we have in QTA into HTML ←
21:20:04 <liam> ...to help in understanding the test tructure, as roles
...to help in understanding the test tructure, as roles ←
21:20:29 <liam> There may be some specific ARIA properties we'd like to look at bringing over too. We have the Accessible Portable Item Profile task force,
There may be some specific ARIA properties we'd like to look at bringing over too. We have the Accessible Portable Item Profile task force, ←
21:20:40 <liam> APIP is a layer on top of QTA to define additional a11y.
APIP is a layer on top of QTA to define additional a11y. ←
21:21:05 <liam> ... Our TF is looking at long term goal of harmonizing QTA with HTML5 so yuo can author directly into your test item, makes transform more straight forward.
... Our TF is looking at long term goal of harmonizing QTA with HTML5 so yuo can author directly into your test item, makes transform more straight forward. ←
21:21:13 <liam> We have brought ARIA into QTA.
We have brought ARIA into QTI. ←
21:21:39 <tzviya> s/QTA/QTI
21:21:40 <liam> ... Also we have included speech pronunciation SSML, CSS speech, PLS lexicon spec from EPUB
... Also we have included speech pronunciation SSML, CSS speech, PLS lexicon spec from EPUB ←
21:21:59 <liam> ... But there's not yet uptake from user agents or assistive technologies.
... But there's not yet uptake from user agents or assistive technologies. ←
21:22:02 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
21:22:25 <liam> Janina: so let's just bring it up. Longsdesc is just about done for HTML 5 but it's not enough
Scribe problem: the name 'Janina' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Janina: so let's just bring it up. Longsdesc is just about done for HTML 5 but it's not enough ←
21:22:55 <liam> Mark: When you have complex images, e.g. the water cycle, in text books, we need a way to author the alternate versions of that image,
Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Mark: When you have complex images, e.g. the water cycle, in text books, we need a way to author the alternate versions of that image, ←
21:23:25 <liam> ... e.g. a simplified image, an embossed tactile file, a 3d image, need to capture this with the image, as well as long image description.
... e.g. a simplified image, an embossed tactile file, a 3d image, need to capture this with the image, as well as long image description. ←
21:23:35 <liam> ... E.g. the diagram content model.
... E.g. the diagram content model. ←
21:23:42 <azaroth> Not to derail the conversation, but accessibility contributions could be made via Annotations
Robert Sanderson: Not to derail the conversation, but accessibility contributions could be made via Annotations ←
21:23:51 <tzviya> +1
Tzviya Siegman: +1 ←
21:23:55 <liam> Janina: If you (HTML) opposed longdesc, help us build a better mousetrap.
Scribe problem: the name 'Janina' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Janina: If you (HTML) opposed longdesc, help us build a better mousetrap. ←
21:24:03 <cyns> q+
Scribe problem: the name 'cyns' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'cyns' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown cyns: q+ ←
21:24:09 <cyns> q?
Scribe problem: the name 'cyns' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'cyns' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown cyns: q? ←
21:24:26 <liam> Many people have not seen good image descriptions, only bad ones.
Many people have not seen good image descriptions, only bad ones. ←
21:25:09 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
21:25:17 <liam> Mark: delivering a test with image descriptions, we may restrict which versions the student can get at test time, but more flexible for studying.
Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Mark: delivering a test with image descriptions, we may restrict which versions the student can get at test time, but more flexible for studying. ←
21:25:28 <liam> We have WGB H-trained writers of image descriptions,
We have WGBH-trained writers of image descriptions, ←
21:25:44 <liam> ... but we're stuck not having mechanisms for delivering them.
... but we're stuck not having mechanisms for delivering them. ←
21:26:06 <joanie> s/WGB H/WGBH/
21:26:28 <liam> Cynthia: Our last meeting was with SVG WG; water cycle good e.g. of an image you'd want to have explorable, ave you considered that?
Scribe problem: the name 'Cynthia' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Cynthia: Our last meeting was with SVG WG; water cycle good e.g. of an image you'd want to have explorable, ave you considered that? ←
21:26:31 <liam> Mark: yes.
Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Mark: yes. ←
21:26:44 <liam> tzviya: someone else noted annotations may be a good way forward too.
Tzviya Siegman: someone else noted annotations may be a good way forward too. ←
21:27:00 <liam> ... Our immediate conversation was to have a module for a vocabulary.
... Our immediate conversation was to have a module for a vocabulary. ←
21:27:28 <azaroth> +1 to focusing on the topic at hand
Robert Sanderson: +1 to focusing on the topic at hand ←
21:27:37 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
21:27:45 <tzviya> ack cyns
Tzviya Siegman: ack cyns ←
21:27:50 <azaroth> ack +1
Robert Sanderson: ack +1 ←
21:27:50 <Zakim> +1, you wanted to focusing on the topic at
Zakim IRC Bot: +1, you wanted to focusing on the topic at ←
21:28:09 <liam> Mark: is there anyone objecting to opening up role/value beyond what was specified beyond accessibility?
Richard Schwerdtfeger: is there anyone objecting to opening up role/value beyond what was specified beyond accessibility? ←
21:28:16 <liam> open up the validator.
open up the validator. ←
21:28:45 <liam> Janina: you mean a limited vocabulary?
Scribe problem: the name 'Janina' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Janina: you mean a limited vocabulary? ←
21:28:52 <liam> Marcus: it could be unbounded
Markus Gylling: it could be unbounded ←
21:29:00 <liam> s/Mark/Rich/
21:29:18 <mgylling> s/Marcus/Markus/
21:29:27 <liam> [discussion, how restricted should the list be?]
[discussion, how restricted should the list be?] ←
21:29:30 <ivan> Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
Ivan Herman: Present+ Frederick_Hirsch ←
21:29:58 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
21:30:10 <liam> Zen: a list, or could I jjust use chapter as a role?
Scribe problem: the name 'Zen' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Zen: a list, or could I jjust use chapter as a role? ←
21:30:21 <liam> Rick: yuo could use chapter, and if the browser didn't know what it was, it'd fall back to its default.
Richard Schwerdtfeger: yuo could use chapter, and if the browser didn't know what it was, it'd fall back to its default. ←
21:30:38 <liam> Mark: who would object - what about with the AT companies?
Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Mark: who would object - what about with the AT companies? ←
21:30:47 <liam> They're going to have to do work from their perspective.
They're going to have to do work from their perspective. ←
21:31:11 <liam> Rick: I had a call with one AT vendor, need something I can share.
Richard Schwerdtfeger: I had a call with one AT vendor, need something I can share. ←
21:31:37 <liam> Mark: when we apply a role, the role isn't necessarily human-readable, might not be announced by the AT, so how to attach a label?
Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Mark: when we apply a role, the role isn't necessarily human-readable, might not be announced by the AT, so how to attach a label? ←
21:31:53 <liam> Rick: we're talking about a localized role for ARIA 1.1, still having those discussions
Richard Schwerdtfeger: we're talking about a localized role for ARIA 1.1, still having those discussions ←
21:31:59 <ShaneM> q+ to ask about providing role descriptions
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown ShaneM: q+ to ask about providing role descriptions ←
21:32:01 <joanie> s/Rick/Rich/g
21:32:08 <liam> Mark: lots of whiteboard discussions
Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Mark: lots of whiteboard discussions ←
21:32:26 <liam> E.g. might be chapter but in the book Canto
E.g. might be chapter but in the book Canto ←
21:32:39 <liam> Zen: but what will a validator say?
Scribe problem: the name 'Jon' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jon: but what will a validator say? ←
21:32:57 <ShaneM> s/Zen/Jon/
21:33:19 <ivan> q?
Ivan Herman: q? ←
21:33:32 <liam> Rich: we've got an aria reader we've expanded to read epub, but for books it'd be helpful to know, there should bea real definition
Richard Schwerdtfeger: we've got an aria reader we've expanded to read epub, but for books it'd be helpful to know, there should bea real definition ←
21:33:58 <liam> tzviya: some things are documenting definitions and mapping for AT. If there's a typo it's not valid.
Tzviya Siegman: some things are documenting definitions and mapping for AT. If there's a typo it's not valid. ←
21:34:10 <liam> So we don't plan just to throw this out in the wild.
So we don't plan just to throw this out in the wild. ←
21:34:33 <tzviya> ack liam
Tzviya Siegman: ack liam ←
21:34:38 <tzviya> ack ShaneM
Tzviya Siegman: ack ShaneM ←
21:34:38 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask about providing role descriptions
Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to ask about providing role descriptions ←
21:34:48 <liam> Shane: On the validator.... can do whatever it wants, and HTML 5 community alerady has certain things that have a community-expandable
Scribe problem: the name 'Shane' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Shane: On the validator.... can do whatever it wants, and HTML 5 community alerady has certain things that have a community-expandable ←
21:35:01 <liam> ... list of values, and the validator still deals with.
... list of values, and the validator still deals with. ←
21:35:27 <liam> But, role descriptions, being able to assign a description to an arbitrary role, not per-element but across a document, that's SEXY
But, role descriptions, being able to assign a description to an arbitrary role, not per-element but across a document, that's SEXY ←
21:36:19 <liam> Markus: instead of repeating aria-label=canto throughout the document you put it once in the head.
Markus Gylling: instead of repeating aria-label=canto throughout the document you put it once in the head. ←
21:36:29 <liam> Mark: in NISO we used to have an external resource file.
Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Mark: in NISO we used to have an external resource file. ←
21:37:41 <tzviya> liam: supports idea od extensible list, but open list could be dangerous because people may use terms in unintended ways
Liam Quin: supports idea od extensible list, but open list could be dangerous because people may use terms in unintended ways [ Scribe Assist by Tzviya Siegman ] ←
21:37:56 <tzviya> ...chapter can mean a chapter of chapter of a club
Tzviya Siegman: ...chapter can mean a chapter of chapter of a club ←
21:37:56 <cyns> +1
Scribe problem: the name 'cyns' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'cyns' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown cyns: +1 ←
21:38:13 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
21:38:19 <liam> Rich: if we had an extensible list would that work for publishing?
Richard Schwerdtfeger: if we had an extensible list would that work for publishing? ←
21:38:25 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
21:38:28 <azaroth> +1 to modeling after link rel registry
Robert Sanderson: +1 to modeling after link rel registry ←
21:38:34 <liam> Markus: like rel/rev registry? yes.
Markus Gylling: like rel/rev registry? yes. ←
21:39:00 <liam> Markus: Could be decentralised, different communities could have their own and register as needed.
Markus Gylling: Could be decentralised, different communities could have their own and register as needed. ←
21:39:16 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
21:39:33 <liam> [discussion of vocabulary spaces, prefixes in epub not being used]
[discussion of vocabulary spaces, prefixes in epub not being used] ←
21:39:35 <tzviya> ack ivan
Tzviya Siegman: ack ivan ←
21:40:10 <liam> Ivan: I'd like to understand where we are. What we say is it's a possibility to use the role attribute so that this group or IDPF or wheover defines the terms for role for digital publishing.
Ivan Herman: I'd like to understand where we are. What we say is it's a possibility to use the role attribute so that this group or IDPF or wheover defines the terms for role for digital publishing. ←
21:40:38 <liam> ... Shane [tells us] this is no problem with the HTML validator, as anyone can come and plug in these terms,
... Shane [tells us] this is no problem with the HTML validator, as anyone can come and plug in these terms, ←
21:40:48 <liam> ... or do we still have to negotiate? What are the roadblocks?
... or do we still have to negotiate? What are the roadblocks? ←
21:41:09 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
21:41:46 <liam> Shane: we'd ned to persuade whomever that a role registry needs to be established similar to the rel registry, for which there is already a precedent.
Scribe problem: the name 'Shane' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Shane: we'd ned to persuade whomever that a role registry needs to be established similar to the rel registry, for which there is already a precedent. ←
21:42:25 <liam> JohnF: it used to be a wiki page with HTML 5; there was no gatekeeper but not sure on status.
Scribe problem: the name 'JohnF' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JohnF: it used to be a wiki page with HTML 5; there was no gatekeeper but not sure on status. ←
21:42:32 <azaroth> Are we not talking about http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml ?
Robert Sanderson: Are we not talking about http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml ? ←
21:42:38 <liam> tzviya: I think we want a gatekeeper as this has to be functional ARIA
Tzviya Siegman: I think we want a gatekeeper as this has to be functional ARIA ←
21:42:58 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
21:43:26 <liam> Ivan: why does HTML have to change? There are a limited number of values.
Ivan Herman: why does HTML have to change? There are a limited number of values. ←
21:43:33 <MichaelC_> q+ to mention aria module module
Scribe problem: the name 'MichaelC_' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'MichaelC_' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown MichaelC_: q+ to mention aria module module ←
21:43:36 <liam> Shane: HTML defers to ARIA, the list isn't in the HTML spec.
Scribe problem: the name 'Shane' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Shane: HTML defers to ARIA, the list isn't in the HTML spec. ←
21:43:53 <liam> Markus: they have a table of restrictions on where ARIA attribtes are allowed
Markus Gylling: they have a table of restrictions on where ARIA attribtes are allowed ←
21:44:13 <liam> Rich: You put a checkbox and it says true but aria says false, that's an example HTML restriction.
Richard Schwerdtfeger: You put a checkbox and it says true but aria says false, that's an example HTML restriction. ←
21:44:21 <liam> Ivan: is this a roadblock for us?
Ivan Herman: is this a roadblock for us? ←
21:44:24 <liam> Rich: no.
Richard Schwerdtfeger: no. ←
21:44:39 <liam> Ivan: what changes in ARIA?
Ivan Herman: what changes in ARIA? ←
21:44:46 <liam> Markus: has to point to registry
Markus Gylling: has to point to registry ←
21:45:03 <liam> Rich: you're going to create a taxonomy and when it's ready you add it to the registry.
Richard Schwerdtfeger: you're going to create a taxonomy and when it's ready you add it to the registry. ←
21:45:32 <liam> Shane: you register your terms, say where the description is, and if that were done in how the roles relate to the existin ARIA taxomony the AT devs would know what to do
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Unknown Shane: you register your terms, say where the description is, and if that were done in how the roles relate to the existin ARIA taxomony the AT devs would know what to do ←
21:46:27 <liam> Markus: if your plan is to stay with OWL then makes sense to plug in to that framework.
Markus Gylling: if your plan is to stay with OWL then makes sense to plug in to that framework. ←
21:46:52 <liam> Rich: we'll probably not publish OWL in the ARIA spec, but it's helpful to us as desighers of the taxonomy
Richard Schwerdtfeger: we'll probably not publish OWL in the ARIA spec, but it's helpful to us as desighers of the taxonomy ←
21:47:07 <liam> MikeCooper: want to offer possibility of ARIA modules to extend the taxonomy,
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Unknown MikeCooper: want to offer possibility of ARIA modules to extend the taxonomy, ←
21:47:27 <liam> ... so a community like epub would do an extension. Reason to submit to PF WG is to prevent collisions.
... so a community like epub would do an extension. Reason to submit to PF WG is to prevent collisions. ←
21:47:30 <MichaelC_> ack me
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Scribe problem: the name 'MichaelC_' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown MichaelC_: ack me ←
21:47:30 <Zakim> MichaelC_, you wanted to mention aria module module
Zakim IRC Bot: MichaelC_, you wanted to mention aria module module ←
21:47:41 <liam> Ivan: what out of this has to go through a Rec track?
Ivan Herman: what out of this has to go through a Rec track? ←
21:47:51 <liam> Rich: we're going to make a module for the book semantics
Richard Schwerdtfeger: we're going to make a module for the book semantics ←
21:48:10 <liam> Ivan: the beauty of a registry is that if there's some sort of a community which controls the content, e.g. IDPF as an organization,
Ivan Herman: the beauty of a registry is that if there's some sort of a community which controls the content, e.g. IDPF as an organization, ←
21:48:22 <liam> ... then why should that go through the painful exercise of W3C Recommendation?
... then why should that go through the painful exercise of W3C Recommendation? ←
21:48:34 <liam> Janina: if it's an IDPF validator I suppose not.
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Unknown Janina: if it's an IDPF validator I suppose not. ←
21:49:17 <liam> Rich: you wanted this to work with AT vendors. Each platform has its own services layer. Have you looked at any of that?
Richard Schwerdtfeger: you wanted this to work with AT vendors. Each platform has its own services layer. Have you looked at any of that? ←
21:49:20 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
Bill Kasdorf: q- ←
21:50:11 <liam> Ivan: publishers I think need these terms yesterday. SO publish list, go through the registry and validator,
Ivan Herman: publishers I think need these terms yesterday. SO publish list, go through the registry and validator, ←
21:50:24 <liam> ... and a 2nd step could be a Rec. This IG has a charter for only one more year.
... and a 2nd step could be a Rec. This IG has a charter for only one more year. ←
21:51:14 <liam> Rich: how do we know yu're not going to have collisions? Two roles that mean the same thing.
Richard Schwerdtfeger: how do we know yu're not going to have collisions? Two roles that mean the same thing. ←
21:51:35 <liam> ... We're suggesting the subteam would work to prevent duplication.
... We're suggesting the subteam would work to prevent duplication. ←
21:52:13 <liam> Janina: it's a clash between their list and a list we have elsewhere [that's the problem]
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Unknown Janina: it's a clash between their list and a list we have elsewhere [that's the problem] ←
21:52:33 <liam> Janina: how do you keep it from clashing over tme.
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Unknown Janina: how do you keep it from clashing over tme. ←
21:52:56 <liam> Laura: I think Ivan's concern is W3C's process is slow and top-heavy.
Deborah Kaplan: I think Ivan's concern is W3C's process is slow and top-heavy. ←
21:53:08 <liam> ... You dn't necessarily need to go through the W3C approval process.
... You dn't necessarily need to go through the W3C approval process. ←
21:53:16 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
21:53:43 <liam> tzviya: we're not suggesting giving you our existing terms, we'd like help
Tzviya Siegman: we're not suggesting giving you our existing terms, we'd like help ←
21:54:10 <liam> Ivan: can't do a Rec in 12 months
Ivan Herman: can't do a Rec in 12 months ←
21:54:16 <liam> Liam: fastest I know of is 2 years.
Liam Quin: fastest I know of is 2 years. ←
21:54:17 <dkaplan3> s/Laura/Deborah
21:54:46 <liam> Shane: no need for a rec track.
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Unknown Shane: no need for a rec track. ←
21:55:27 <liam> Markus: suggestion is that aria role vocab changes from being a table of stuff inside a rec-track doc to being an external online resource that can be appended to
Markus Gylling: suggestion is that aria role vocab changes from being a table of stuff inside a rec-track doc to being an external online resource that can be appended to ←
21:55:43 <liam> PF is the caretaker of this registry. Others come along and make submissions.
PF is the caretaker of this registry. Others come along and make submissions. ←
21:56:04 <liam> You have a set of requirements to make a submission, e.g OWL ontology.
You have a set of requirements to make a submission, e.g OWL ontology. ←
21:56:13 <liam> ... IDPF, ETS etc would come to you with this more agile framework.
... IDPF, ETS etc would come to you with this more agile framework. ←
21:56:24 <liam> Rich: I don't have an issue with this.
Richard Schwerdtfeger: I don't have an issue with this. ←
21:56:29 <liam> Shane: that's what I propose.
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Unknown Shane: that's what I propose. ←
21:56:30 <mhakkinen> +1 to Markus
Markku Hakkinen: +1 to Markus ←
21:56:31 <liam> Ivan: +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
21:56:44 <liam> Janina: [ +1 ]
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Unknown Janina: [ +1 ] ←
21:56:46 <Ryladog> q+
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Scribe problem: the name 'Ryladog' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Ryladog: q+ ←
21:56:59 <liam> Markus: to ARIA would change to take out the table?
Markus Gylling: to ARIA would change to take out the table? ←
21:57:33 <liam> Rich: If you start going into states and properties, that gets really messy
Richard Schwerdtfeger: If you start going into states and properties, that gets really messy ←
21:57:53 <liam> MichaelCooper: if this change is accepted it's not a hard editorial change for us.
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Unknown MichaelCooper: if this change is accepted it's not a hard editorial change for us. ←
21:57:54 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
21:58:43 <liam> Liam: ARIA could leave values in the spec and say that the registry is additional, and pre-populate the reistry.
Liam Quin: ARIA could leave values in the spec and say that the registry is additional, and pre-populate the reistry. ←
21:58:49 <ShaneM> See the current "registry" at http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab
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Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown ShaneM: See the current "registry" at http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab ←
21:59:17 <liam> Ryladog: so this is a recommendation to make a non-normative resource taht could be part of ARIA? Sort of like techniques doc for WCAG:
Scribe problem: the name 'Ryladog' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Ryladog: so this is a recommendation to make a non-normative resource taht could be part of ARIA? Sort of like techniques doc for WCAG: ←
21:59:25 <ShaneM> q?
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown ShaneM: q? ←
21:59:43 <liam> Rich: it'd be a registry, a glossary of values with definitions, and that'd be a normative definition in terms of the role value
Richard Schwerdtfeger: it'd be a registry, a glossary of values with definitions, and that'd be a normative definition in terms of the role value ←
22:00:06 <liam> Ryladog: could be continuallyupdated or improved
Scribe problem: the name 'Ryladog' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Ryladog: could be continuallyupdated or improved ←
22:00:17 <liam> but PF would be responsible for non-collisions.
but PF would be responsible for non-collisions. ←
22:01:14 <liam> tzviya: [shows IDPF glossary work]
Tzviya Siegman: [shows IDPF glossary work] ←
22:01:25 <tzviya> http://www.idpf.org/epub/vocab/structure/
Tzviya Siegman: http://www.idpf.org/epub/vocab/structure/ ←
22:01:40 <liam> http://www.idpf.org/epub/vocab/structure/#h_glossaries
http://www.idpf.org/epub/vocab/structure/#h_glossaries ←
22:02:26 <liam> [ tzviya projects http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab ]
[ tzviya projects http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab ] ←
22:03:50 <liam> Markus: intent with glossary from idpf is that if it sits on a dl element the scope of the glossary is the dl element only.
Markus Gylling: intent with glossary from idpf is that if it sits on a dl element the scope of the glossary is the dl element only. ←
22:04:39 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
22:04:57 <tzviya> ack Ryladog
Tzviya Siegman: ack Ryladog ←
22:05:19 <liam> [ questions about APIs ]
[ questions about APIs ] ←
22:05:30 <liam> Ryladog: governments would need something normative for API stuff
Scribe problem: the name 'Ryladog' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Ryladog: governments would need something normative for API stuff ←
22:05:38 <liam> Ivan: does an IDPF document serve?
Ivan Herman: does an IDPF document serve? ←
22:05:51 <liam> Ryladog: if it's a recognised standards body, depends on the government.
Scribe problem: the name 'Ryladog' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Ryladog: if it's a recognised standards body, depends on the government. ←
22:06:32 <liam> Rich: I tell people this about standards: often the technology is the easy part; you have tooling, policy,...
Richard Schwerdtfeger: I tell people this about standards: often the technology is the easy part; you have tooling, policy,... ←
22:07:44 <liam> [ PF WG, quality control questions ]
[ PF WG, quality control questions ] ←
22:07:51 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
22:08:31 <liam> ACTION: ShaneM to create a registry for ARIA roles in HTML 5
ACTION: ShaneM to create a registry for ARIA roles in HTML 5 ←
22:08:31 <trackbot> Error finding 'ShaneM'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Error finding 'ShaneM'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>. ←
22:09:45 <liam> tzviya: this needs to be backwards compatible.
Tzviya Siegman: this needs to be backwards compatible. ←
22:10:23 <liam> Can we change these descriptions?
Can we change these descriptions? ←
22:10:29 <liam> Shane: [yes, can change]
Scribe problem: the name 'Shane' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Shane: [yes, can change] ←
22:10:57 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
22:11:18 <liam> Rick: So the PF WG is going to work on processes for the registry.
Scribe problem: the name 'Rick' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Rick: So the PF WG is going to work on processes for the registry. ←
22:11:42 <liam> Martus: There might be a dpub chapter vs. an svg chapter definition
Scribe problem: the name 'Martus' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Martus: There might be a dpub chapter vs. an svg chapter definition ←
22:11:56 <liam> [others: this is why we need a gatekeeper ]
[others: this is why we need a gatekeeper ] ←
22:12:20 <ShaneM> q?
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown ShaneM: q? ←
22:12:35 <liam> Bill: are there prefixes in this context?
Bill Kasdorf: are there prefixes in this context? ←
22:13:47 <liam> [discussion of why prefixes/namespaces are too annoying]
[discussion of why prefixes/namespaces are too annoying] ←
22:14:31 <dkaplan3> q+
Deborah Kaplan: q+ ←
22:15:10 <dkaplan3> q-
Deborah Kaplan: q- ←
22:16:07 <liam> Mark: we'd participate to align.
Scribe problem: the name 'Mark' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Mark: we'd participate to align. ←
22:16:47 <liam> tzviya: we'd do this in the joint dpub pf tf.
Tzviya Siegman: we'd do this in the joint dpub pf tf. ←
22:16:57 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
22:17:15 <liam> debora: i'll help
Deborah Kaplan: i'll help ←
22:17:24 <liam> s/debora/Deborah/
22:17:36 <liam> Rich: who will lead that tf?
Richard Schwerdtfeger: who will lead that tf? ←
22:17:45 <liam> Markus: I've been fishing for some people
Markus Gylling: I've been fishing for some people ←
22:18:08 <liam> Janina: we don't have to decide this today. We do have the W3C infrastructure to use.
Scribe problem: the name 'Janina' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Janina: we don't have to decide this today. We do have the W3C infrastructure to use. ←
22:18:16 <liam> Markus: tzviya or i will lead if necessary, we can't wait any longer.
Markus Gylling: tzviya or i will lead if necessary, we can't wait any longer. ←
22:18:30 <liam> Janina: get people signed up.
Scribe problem: the name 'Janina' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Janina: get people signed up. ←
22:19:18 <liam> Ivan: can be done on mailing list
Ivan Herman: can be done on mailing list ←
22:19:33 <liam> Janina: we're not going to get any kickback from dong this
Scribe problem: the name 'Janina' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Janina: we're not going to get any kickback from dong this ←
22:20:12 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
22:21:11 <liam> Shane: thing to say @ HTML is we really like the precedent you set with the rel attribute!
Scribe problem: the name 'Shane' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Shane: thing to say @ HTML is we really like the precedent you set with the rel attribute! ←
22:21:50 <liam> tzviya: Markus, Charles, Tzviya, Mark, Deborah will be in the TF initially
Tzviya Siegman: Markus, Charles, Tzviya, Mark, Deborah will be in the TF initially ←
22:23:37 <liam> Rich: we're looking at epub books at IBM. Is there anything you'd like to see adopted when people write books; you might want to have test tools,
Richard Schwerdtfeger: we're looking at epub books at IBM. Is there anything you'd like to see adopted when people write books; you might want to have test tools, ←
22:23:50 <liam> ... I should see the following semantics in a book.
... I should see the following semantics in a book. ←
22:24:28 <tzviya> ACTION: tzviya and company to review EPUB 3 SSV and pare down list for submission to PF
ACTION: tzviya and company to review EPUB 3 SSV and pare down list for submission to PF ←
22:24:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-32 - And company to review epub 3 ssv and pare down list for submission to pf [on Tzviya Siegman - due 2014-11-06].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-32 - And company to review epub 3 ssv and pare down list for submission to pf [on Tzviya Siegman - due 2014-11-06]. ←
22:25:21 <liam> Rich: We (IBM) store all our docs in DITA format, so we'll need [validation]
Richard Schwerdtfeger: We (IBM) store all our docs in DITA format, so we'll need [validation] ←
22:25:51 <tzviya> ACTION ivan help create OWL for list of terms created by TF
Tzviya Siegman: ACTION ivan help create OWL for list of terms created by TF ←
22:25:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-33 - Help create owl for list of terms created by tf [on Ivan Herman - due 2014-11-06].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-33 - Help create owl for list of terms created by tf [on Ivan Herman - due 2014-11-06]. ←
22:26:01 <liam> Janina: all these definitions we're going to, don't think you want to restrict them to AT, you can take advantage of them in general.
Scribe problem: the name 'Janina' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Janina: all these definitions we're going to, don't think you want to restrict them to AT, you can take advantage of them in general. ←
22:26:13 <liam> Ivan: they may already be used e.g. for educational books for reacting on educational level.
Ivan Herman: they may already be used e.g. for educational books for reacting on educational level. ←
22:26:44 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
22:26:56 <liam> Janina: some resistance about ARIA is that it only helps people using AT, but there's nothing saying others can't use it.
Scribe problem: the name 'Janina' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Janina: some resistance about ARIA is that it only helps people using AT, but there's nothing saying others can't use it. ←
22:27:39 <liam> s/martus/Charles/
s/martus/Charles/ (warning: replacement failed) ←
22:28:07 <ivan_> rrsagent, draft minutes
Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
22:28:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html ivan_
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html ivan_ ←
22:28:59 <liam> [break, joint part of the meeting adjourned]
[break, joint part of the meeting adjourned] ←
23:08:31 <ivan_> scribenick: bjdmeest
(No events recorded for 39 minutes)
(Scribe set to Ben De Meester)
23:08:40 <bjdmeest> Topic: Bib recap
23:08:51 <bjdmeest> mgylling: at Bib, ivan and I had a talk
Markus Gylling: at Bib, ivan and I had a talk ←
23:08:51 <ivan_> Topic: Books in Browsers recap - EPUBWEB
23:09:12 <bjdmeest> ... which was a first public outing about standards and digital publishing
... which was a first public outing about standards and digital publishing ←
23:09:27 <bjdmeest> ... ivan and I are working on a (private) paper, still tweaking
... ivan and I are working on a (private) paper, still tweaking ←
23:09:42 <bjdmeest> ... this paper is a elongated version of the BiB talk
... this paper is a elongated version of the BiB talk ←
23:09:51 <bjdmeest> ... it is a vision about DPUB on OWP
... it is a vision about DPUB on OWP ←
23:10:09 <bjdmeest> ... the notion is: reduce distinction between publishing and consumption
... the notion is: reduce distinction between publishing and consumption ←
23:10:40 <bjdmeest> ... portable document (pdf, epub, etc) today is a second class citizen on the web, we want this to come to an end
... portable document (pdf, epub, etc) today is a second class citizen on the web, we want this to come to an end ←
23:10:50 <bjdmeest> ... should become first-=class citizens
... should become first-=class citizens ←
23:11:12 <bjdmeest> ... the paper [which is being projected] talks about this
... the paper [which is being projected] talks about this ←
23:11:45 <bjdmeest> ... seperation offline and online should become zero (i.e., a dynamic state)
... seperation offline and online should become zero (i.e., a dynamic state) ←
23:12:02 <bjdmeest> ... so you can choose which state to publish in
... so you can choose which state to publish in ←
23:12:20 <bjdmeest> ... user can choose how to consume
... user can choose how to consume ←
23:12:36 <bjdmeest> ... no compromise on feature set
... no compromise on feature set ←
23:13:12 <bjdmeest> ... (work items list follows)
... (work items list follows) ←
23:13:45 <bjdmeest> ... we're not talking about one big cache
... we're not talking about one big cache ←
23:13:52 <bjdmeest> ... (but it could be a partial state)
... (but it could be a partial state) ←
23:14:45 <bjdmeest> ... purposes: archiving, publishing in oppresive regime, US marines (selling complete offline ereaders)
... purposes: archiving, publishing in oppresive regime, US marines (selling complete offline ereaders) ←
23:15:14 <bjdmeest> ... not about caching, about web content in a package that doesn't need network
... not about caching, about web content in a package that doesn't need network ←
23:15:35 <bjdmeest> ... chapter 3 is about work areas
... chapter 3 is about work areas ←
23:15:48 <bjdmeest> ... a.o., generic archive format
... a.o., generic archive format ←
23:16:30 <bjdmeest> ... there is a deliverable about packaging happening atm
... there is a deliverable about packaging happening atm ←
23:16:49 <bjdmeest> ivan: difference of EPUB: based on multipart mime instead of zip
Ivan Herman: difference of EPUB: based on multipart mime instead of zip ←
23:16:56 <bjdmeest> brady: been there, done that
Brady Duga: been there, done that ←
23:17:27 <bjdmeest> ivan: there is a group working on that, we cannot reasonably expect a browser to implement multiple archiving formats, so we should talk about this now, before EPUB dies
Ivan Herman: there is a group working on that, we cannot reasonably expect a browser to implement multiple archiving formats, so we should talk about this now, before EPUB dies ←
23:18:09 <bjdmeest> brady: historically, there exists something like this, not adopted, as it was to complicated (multipart mime), however, as a standard, it is better (zip is a mess)
Brady Duga: historically, there exists something like this, not adopted, as it was to complicated (multipart mime), however, as a standard, it is better (zip is a mess) ←
23:20:01 <bjdmeest_> scribenick: bjdmeest
23:20:06 <bjdmeest_> scribenick: bjdmeest_
23:20:27 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: 1: archive format
Markus Gylling: 1: archive format ←
23:20:39 <bjdmeest_> 2: capture overall publication structure
Scribe problem: the name '2' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Karen Myers Edward O'Connor Vlad Stirbu Bill Kasdorf Graham Bell Nishit Jain Peter Krautzberger Erik Mannens Liam Quin George Walkley Jiphun Satapathy Don Brutzman Frank Liu Brady Duga Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Julie Morris Koji Ishii Peter Linss Richard Schwerdtfeger Tzviya Siegman Alan Stearns Mahesh Kulkarni Michael Miller Thierry Michel Somnath Chandra Manuel Rego Casasnovas Suzanne Taylor Zakim IRC Bot ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Charles LaPierre Doug Schepers Pierre Danet Robin Berjon Anton Leskovets Laura Fowler Jun Fujisawa Priyanka Malik Robert Sanderson Akshat Joshi Trackbot IRC Bot Timothy Cole Prashant Prashant Mohamed ZERGAOUI akiyoshi ibuki Sharad Garg Paolo Ciccarese Livio Mondini RRSAgent IRC Bot Tom Burns Ayla Stein Vincent Gros Daniel Schwabe Heather Reid Swaran Lata Markku Hakkinen David Singer Kenny Zhang Tom Habing Phil Madans Tyng-Ruey Chuang Liza Daly Madi Solomon Dmitry Shkolnik Miel Vander Sande Dave Cramer Frederick Hirsch Alan Tam Vladimir Levantovsky Shinyu Murakami Paul Belfanti Casey Dougherty Markus Gylling George Kerscher Ivan Herman Deborah Kaplan Luc Audrain Ben De Meester David Stroup Tim Clark Jirka Kosek Tom De Nies Naitik Tyagi Ben Ko Bert Bos . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown 2: capture overall publication structure ←
23:21:11 <bjdmeest_> 3: document and fragment identification (select specific document, specific part of a document
Scribe problem: the name '3' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Karen Myers Edward O'Connor Vlad Stirbu Bill Kasdorf Graham Bell Nishit Jain Peter Krautzberger Erik Mannens Liam Quin George Walkley Jiphun Satapathy Don Brutzman Frank Liu Brady Duga Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Julie Morris Koji Ishii Peter Linss Richard Schwerdtfeger Tzviya Siegman Alan Stearns Mahesh Kulkarni Michael Miller Thierry Michel Somnath Chandra Manuel Rego Casasnovas Suzanne Taylor Zakim IRC Bot ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Charles LaPierre Doug Schepers Pierre Danet Robin Berjon Anton Leskovets Laura Fowler Jun Fujisawa Priyanka Malik Robert Sanderson Akshat Joshi Trackbot IRC Bot Timothy Cole Prashant Prashant Mohamed ZERGAOUI akiyoshi ibuki Sharad Garg Paolo Ciccarese Livio Mondini RRSAgent IRC Bot Tom Burns Ayla Stein Vincent Gros Daniel Schwabe Heather Reid Swaran Lata Markku Hakkinen David Singer Kenny Zhang Tom Habing Phil Madans Tyng-Ruey Chuang Liza Daly Madi Solomon Dmitry Shkolnik Miel Vander Sande Dave Cramer Frederick Hirsch Alan Tam Vladimir Levantovsky Shinyu Murakami Paul Belfanti Casey Dougherty Markus Gylling George Kerscher Ivan Herman Deborah Kaplan Luc Audrain Ben De Meester David Stroup Tim Clark Jirka Kosek Tom De Nies Naitik Tyagi Ben Ko Bert Bos . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown 3: document and fragment identification (select specific document, specific part of a document ←
23:21:27 <bjdmeest_> ivan: final solution might not come from IDPF of W3C
Ivan Herman: final solution might not come from IDPF of W3C ←
23:21:49 <bjdmeest_> ... i.e., what is the URL of a book, involves many many partners
... i.e., what is the URL of a book, involves many many partners ←
23:22:01 <bjdmeest_> ...W3C and/or IDPF might not be solaly ideal
...W3C and/or IDPF might not be solaly ideal ←
23:22:18 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: 4: metadata for discovery
Markus Gylling: 4: metadata for discovery ←
23:22:25 <bjdmeest_> ...harmonize metadata expressions
...harmonize metadata expressions ←
23:22:43 <bjdmeest_> ... inkling is doing stuff about RDFa and discoverability
... inkling is doing stuff about RDFa and discoverability ←
23:23:05 <bjdmeest_> ... having a specific format, is completely out of question, needs to be (plain) HTML
... having a specific format, is completely out of question, needs to be (plain) HTML ←
23:23:15 <bjdmeest_> ... 5: pagination
... 5: pagination ←
23:23:45 <bjdmeest_> ... is a dealbreaker if it doesn't exist (for some parts of the publishing community)
... is a dealbreaker if it doesn't exist (for some parts of the publishing community) ←
23:24:01 <bjdmeest_> 6: security: origin is often unspecified
Scribe problem: the name '6' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Karen Myers Edward O'Connor Vlad Stirbu Bill Kasdorf Graham Bell Nishit Jain Peter Krautzberger Erik Mannens Liam Quin George Walkley Jiphun Satapathy Don Brutzman Frank Liu Brady Duga Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Julie Morris Koji Ishii Peter Linss Richard Schwerdtfeger Tzviya Siegman Alan Stearns Mahesh Kulkarni Michael Miller Thierry Michel Somnath Chandra Manuel Rego Casasnovas Suzanne Taylor Zakim IRC Bot ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Charles LaPierre Doug Schepers Pierre Danet Robin Berjon Anton Leskovets Laura Fowler Jun Fujisawa Priyanka Malik Robert Sanderson Akshat Joshi Trackbot IRC Bot Timothy Cole Prashant Prashant Mohamed ZERGAOUI akiyoshi ibuki Sharad Garg Paolo Ciccarese Livio Mondini RRSAgent IRC Bot Tom Burns Ayla Stein Vincent Gros Daniel Schwabe Heather Reid Swaran Lata Markku Hakkinen David Singer Kenny Zhang Tom Habing Phil Madans Tyng-Ruey Chuang Liza Daly Madi Solomon Dmitry Shkolnik Miel Vander Sande Dave Cramer Frederick Hirsch Alan Tam Vladimir Levantovsky Shinyu Murakami Paul Belfanti Casey Dougherty Markus Gylling George Kerscher Ivan Herman Deborah Kaplan Luc Audrain Ben De Meester David Stroup Tim Clark Jirka Kosek Tom De Nies Naitik Tyagi Ben Ko Bert Bos . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown 6: security: origin is often unspecified ←
23:24:17 <bjdmeest_> brady: for a local file, origin is a little strange
Brady Duga: for a local file, origin is a little strange ←
23:24:35 <tzviya> q?
Tzviya Siegman: q? ←
23:24:37 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: 7: presentation: users that can change the presentation is important
Markus Gylling: 7: presentation: users that can change the presentation is important ←
23:24:54 <bjdmeest_> ... epub is not ideal for this, very difficult for HTML and CSS
... epub is not ideal for this, very difficult for HTML and CSS ←
23:25:15 <bjdmeest_> ... 8: models for specific restrictions and extensions
... 8: models for specific restrictions and extensions ←
23:25:41 <bjdmeest_> ... there is a need to restrain how documents are structured (i.e., comics, extreme amount of restrictions)
... there is a need to restrain how documents are structured (i.e., comics, extreme amount of restrictions) ←
23:25:52 <bjdmeest_> (btw, this list is not exhaustive)
(btw, this list is not exhaustive) ←
23:26:13 <bjdmeest_> ... we see this with EDUPUB in epub
... we see this with EDUPUB in epub ←
23:26:19 <bjdmeest_> ... that are the 8 work items
... that are the 8 work items ←
23:26:31 <bjdmeest_> ... should be a living document
... should be a living document ←
23:26:32 <TimCole> q+
Timothy Cole: q+ ←
23:27:03 <bjdmeest_> ... idea: publish this paper, get input from diverse audience
... idea: publish this paper, get input from diverse audience ←
23:27:15 <bjdmeest_> ... there are massive sectors that aren't here now
... there are massive sectors that aren't here now ←
23:27:34 <bjdmeest_> ... could have wide repercussions
... could have wide repercussions ←
23:28:08 <bjdmeest_> ivan: enhanced publisher: IBM going to EPUB is an example of this of advantage of offline and online
Ivan Herman: enhanced publisher: IBM going to EPUB is an example of this of advantage of offline and online ←
23:28:41 <bjdmeest_> ... partners are e.g. IBM, they have massive problems
... partners are e.g. IBM, they have massive problems ←
23:29:04 <tzviya> ack TimCole
Tzviya Siegman: ack TimCole ←
23:29:07 <bjdmeest_> ???: people are using DILAN?? now (oracle, ...
Michael Miller: people are using DITA?? now (oracle, ... ←
23:29:12 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
23:29:31 <tzviya> s/DILAN/DITA
23:29:31 <bjdmeest_> TimCole: worried about consistency, not features?
Timothy Cole: worried about consistency, not features? ←
23:30:11 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: yes, minimal required, what you put in there, may vary a lot
Markus Gylling: yes, minimal required, what you put in there, may vary a lot ←
23:30:24 <bjdmeest_> TimCole: there is a value in having a base, even if you don't use all
Timothy Cole: there is a value in having a base, even if you don't use all ←
23:30:36 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: yes, rudimentary stuff
Markus Gylling: yes, rudimentary stuff ←
23:30:45 <murakami_> s/???/AH_Miller/
23:30:56 <bjdmeest_> AH_Miller: where would you put government?
Michael Miller: where would you put government? ←
23:31:19 <bjdmeest_> ivan: inhouse publisher includes FAO, they have a lot of publications
Ivan Herman: inhouse publisher includes FAO, they have a lot of publications ←
23:31:35 <bjdmeest_> ... they might advantage of this
... they might advantage of this ←
23:31:57 <bjdmeest_> Bill_kasdorf: ??? just joined, they have a lot of publications, in a lot of languages
Bill Kasdorf: the EU just joined, they have a lot of publications, in a lot of languages ←
23:31:59 <tzviya> ack Bill_Kasdorf
Tzviya Siegman: ack Bill_Kasdorf ←
23:32:15 <tzviya> s/???/the EU
23:32:32 <bjdmeest_> ... it is really important that an offline publication is static, unless it's online
... it is really important that an offline publication is static, unless it's online ←
23:32:37 <bjdmeest_> ... the content is fixed
... the content is fixed ←
23:32:43 <bjdmeest_> ... a website is fundamentally not
... a website is fundamentally not ←
23:33:11 <bjdmeest_> ivan: i can imagine that there a websites that do not fit in this scheme (e.g., gmail)
Ivan Herman: i can imagine that there a websites that do not fit in this scheme (e.g., gmail) ←
23:33:27 <clapierre> q+
Charles LaPierre: q+ ←
23:33:39 <tzviya> q+
Tzviya Siegman: q+ ←
23:33:59 <bjdmeest_> ... website authors might want to flag non-archivable content
... website authors might want to flag non-archivable content ←
23:34:00 <fettes> q+
Scribe problem: the name 'fettes' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'fettes' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown fettes: q+ ←
23:34:50 <bjdmeest_> ???: merging contexts: solve the tailoring for distribution ways?
Rob Cromwell: merging contexts: solve the tailoring for distribution ways? ←
23:34:57 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: yes, part of the problem
Markus Gylling: yes, part of the problem ←
23:35:18 <bjdmeest_> ... the overall vision: publishers use OWP directly, no second-class citizenship
... the overall vision: publishers use OWP directly, no second-class citizenship ←
23:35:50 <bjdmeest_> ... we try to hit the points that we need to fix in OWP to let publishing become a first-class citizen
... we try to hit the points that we need to fix in OWP to let publishing become a first-class citizen ←
23:36:20 <bjdmeest_> ... so we need an archiving format, online or offline is chosen by the user
... so we need an archiving format, online or offline is chosen by the user ←
23:36:23 <TimCole> q+
Timothy Cole: q+ ←
23:36:26 <tzviya> s/???/Rob Cromwell
23:36:33 <tzviya> q-
Tzviya Siegman: q- ←
23:36:49 <bjdmeest_> \me thanks tziya!
\me thanks tziya! ←
23:37:28 <bjdmeest_> ivan: currently online publications cannot be easily viewed offline
Ivan Herman: currently online publications cannot be easily viewed offline ←
23:37:41 <bjdmeest_> ... e.g., view html, download pdf, no way back to html
... e.g., view html, download pdf, no way back to html ←
23:37:56 <bjdmeest_> ... so, unified way, circle, could be easier
... so, unified way, circle, could be easier ←
23:38:08 <bjdmeest_> ... same for archiving (how to archive major websites?)
... same for archiving (how to archive major websites?) ←
23:38:15 <bjdmeest_> ... epub could be used for archiving
... epub could be used for archiving ←
23:38:51 <bjdmeest_> tzviya: some stuff is published in one channel
Tzviya Siegman: some stuff is published in one channel ←
23:39:23 <bjdmeest_> ... epub publications: word to XML to HTML5 (with prefix tagging) to PDF
... epub publications: word to XML to HTML5 (with prefix tagging) to PDF ←
23:39:35 <bjdmeest_> ... in reprint cycle, all files need to be corrected
... in reprint cycle, all files need to be corrected ←
23:39:44 <bjdmeest_> ... proper citation is a problem (page number?)
... proper citation is a problem (page number?) ←
23:40:24 <bjdmeest_> Rob Cromwell: so, there is a workflow, in this new world, you only have one master?
Rob Cromwell: so, there is a workflow, in this new world, you only have one master? ←
23:40:43 <bjdmeest_> tzviya: well, we will still need to print books, but there could be a citation system
Tzviya Siegman: well, we will still need to print books, but there could be a citation system ←
23:40:54 <bjdmeest_> ... atm, that does not exist
... atm, that does not exist ←
23:41:19 <bjdmeest_> ... a correction mechanism can be easier (one source)
... a correction mechanism can be easier (one source) ←
23:41:20 <dkaplan3> q+
Deborah Kaplan: q+ ←
23:41:41 <bjdmeest_> ... there are a lot of things to do, (e.g., html to print), but it could be solved by this
... there are a lot of things to do, (e.g., html to print), but it could be solved by this ←
23:41:59 <tzviya> ack clapierre
Tzviya Siegman: ack clapierre ←
23:42:16 <bjdmeest_> clapierre: is this a new standard, to converge to?
Charles LaPierre: is this a new standard, to converge to? ←
23:42:33 <bjdmeest_> ... who would get these tools to convert current standards?
... who would get these tools to convert current standards? ←
23:42:50 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: that cannot be answered now, we want to publish this white paper, toget feedback
Markus Gylling: that cannot be answered now, we want to publish this white paper, toget feedback ←
23:42:57 <bjdmeest_> ... to kick off a real effort
... to kick off a real effort ←
23:43:08 <bjdmeest_> .. atm, just discussion, no timeline, no agreement to start working on this
.. atm, just discussion, no timeline, no agreement to start working on this ←
23:43:54 <bjdmeest_> ... atm, we don't know, depending on the threshold of the feature-list of necessary features, it will take time
... atm, we don't know, depending on the threshold of the feature-list of necessary features, it will take time ←
23:44:00 <bjdmeest_> ... multi-year effort
... multi-year effort ←
23:44:24 <bjdmeest_> ivan: we hope that we can finalize the document in november, and get it public
Ivan Herman: we hope that we can finalize the document in november, and get it public ←
23:44:41 <bjdmeest_> ... then, a long cycle, with a lot of internal and external comments
... then, a long cycle, with a lot of internal and external comments ←
23:44:49 <bjdmeest_> ... also, what can be done?
... also, what can be done? ←
23:44:56 <bjdmeest_> ... (technically)
... (technically) ←
23:45:09 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
23:45:17 <bjdmeest_> ... hopefully: at the end of winter, we have a better idea of the specific types of work of what needs to be done
... hopefully: at the end of winter, we have a better idea of the specific types of work of what needs to be done ←
23:45:42 <bjdmeest_> ... we may find some areas where there is existing work about e.g., archiving, where we need to participate
... we may find some areas where there is existing work about e.g., archiving, where we need to participate ←
23:45:51 <bjdmeest_> ... other areas, we might need a specific group
... other areas, we might need a specific group ←
23:45:57 <bjdmeest_> ... all conditional on the feedback
... all conditional on the feedback ←
23:46:09 <bjdmeest_> ... sort of a very vague timeline
... sort of a very vague timeline ←
23:46:16 <tzviya> ack fettes
Tzviya Siegman: ack fettes ←
23:46:41 <bjdmeest_> fettes: seems: archive of a very discrete resource?
Scribe problem: the name 'fettes' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown fettes: seems: archive of a very discrete resource? ←
23:46:55 <bjdmeest_> ... else, you are fragmenting the web
... else, you are fragmenting the web ←
23:47:36 <bjdmeest_> ... most websites are living, eg NY times, annotating, notes are gone immediatly
... most websites are living, eg NY times, annotating, notes are gone immediatly ←
23:47:50 <bjdmeest_> ... can be usefull for more static resources
... can be usefull for more static resources ←
23:47:59 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: agreed
Markus Gylling: agreed ←
23:48:19 <bjdmeest_> ... generic does not mean: archive the web, it means: archive dig publications
... generic does not mean: archive the web, it means: archive dig publications ←
23:48:34 <bjdmeest_> ... would not be for front page of NY times
... would not be for front page of NY times ←
23:48:55 <bjdmeest_> ivan: other direction is: currently, cannot directly read an EPUB
Ivan Herman: other direction is: currently, cannot directly read an EPUB ←
23:49:20 <bjdmeest_> ... I should be able to do that automatically, without plugins, as if it was a web page
... I should be able to do that automatically, without plugins, as if it was a web page ←
23:49:28 <bjdmeest_> ... I should be able to adapt it
... I should be able to adapt it ←
23:49:41 <bjdmeest_> ... I should be able to display it with pagination on
... I should be able to display it with pagination on ←
23:50:03 <bjdmeest_> ... web page is not a separate world from EPUB for digital publications
... web page is not a separate world from EPUB for digital publications ←
23:50:38 <bjdmeest_> fettes: you might want pagination depending on e.g. viewport, landscape vs portrait
Scribe problem: the name 'fettes' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown fettes: you might want pagination depending on e.g. viewport, landscape vs portrait ←
23:50:58 <bjdmeest_> ivan: keep user control, there might be default setup
Ivan Herman: keep user control, there might be default setup ←
23:51:03 <tzviya> ack TimCole
Tzviya Siegman: ack TimCole ←
23:51:23 <bjdmeest_> TimCole: we might need better terminology than archive and offline
Timothy Cole: we might need better terminology than archive and offline ←
23:51:31 <bjdmeest_> ... detached vs attached
... detached vs attached ←
23:51:45 <bjdmeest_> ... detached from publisher, but online
... detached from publisher, but online ←
23:52:14 <bjdmeest_> ... I may annotate partly online, partly offline
... I may annotate partly online, partly offline ←
23:52:37 <bjdmeest_> ... NY Times: annotations to yesterday front page should not disappear
... NY Times: annotations to yesterday front page should not disappear ←
23:52:49 <bjdmeest_> ... maybe using archived webpage
... maybe using archived webpage ←
23:53:26 <tzviya> ack dkaplan
Tzviya Siegman: ack dkaplan ←
23:53:27 <bjdmeest_> ... it is about packaging, so I can do something with it (online, you can follow links, etc)
... it is about packaging, so I can do something with it (online, you can follow links, etc) ←
23:54:14 <bjdmeest_> deborah: concerning citation: there is no such thing as a fully static document, everything has versioning
Deborah Kaplan: concerning citation: there is no such thing as a fully static document, everything has versioning ←
23:54:30 <bjdmeest_> ... citations in paper world is very specific way of coping with it
... citations in paper world is very specific way of coping with it ←
23:54:43 <bjdmeest_> ... would this view have some kind of inherent versioning?
... would this view have some kind of inherent versioning? ←
23:54:54 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: yes, epub has that inherently in metadata
Markus Gylling: yes, epub has that inherently in metadata ←
23:55:10 <bjdmeest_> ... so, very rudimentary metadata, and maybe extra versioning
... so, very rudimentary metadata, and maybe extra versioning ←
23:55:41 <bjdmeest_> ivan: another possiblity: best practice is that there are 2 ids: ID for document, ID for version
Ivan Herman: another possiblity: best practice is that there are 2 ids: ID for document, ID for version ←
23:55:50 <bjdmeest_> ... also done with w3c docs
... also done with w3c docs ←
23:56:15 <bjdmeest_> ... another approach: the memento protocol
... another approach: the memento protocol ←
23:56:27 <bjdmeest_> ... URI identifies time in the life of that document
... URI identifies time in the life of that document ←
23:56:38 <bjdmeest_> ... specs exist
... specs exist ←
23:56:51 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: it is a solvable problem
Markus Gylling: it is a solvable problem ←
23:56:54 <tzviya> ack Bill_Kasdorf
Tzviya Siegman: ack Bill_Kasdorf ←
23:57:04 <bjdmeest_> Bill_Kasdorf: we are already down this path
Bill Kasdorf: we are already down this path ←
23:57:20 <bjdmeest_> ... from day one with EPUB3, there is a commitment with staying inline with HTML5
... from day one with EPUB3, there is a commitment with staying inline with HTML5 ←
23:57:28 <bjdmeest_> ... EDUPUB as well
... EDUPUB as well ←
23:57:37 <tzviya> ack liam
Tzviya Siegman: ack liam ←
23:57:37 <Zakim> liam, you wanted to note that there's no reason in principle not to be annotate a back-issue/frozen issue of NYT
Zakim IRC Bot: liam, you wanted to note that there's no reason in principle not to be annotate a back-issue/frozen issue of NYT ←
23:57:41 <bjdmeest_> ... this can be viewed as the long term vision of this kind of stuff
... this can be viewed as the long term vision of this kind of stuff ←
23:58:10 <bjdmeest_> liam: W3C can change the web going forward
Liam Quin: W3C can change the web going forward ←
23:58:27 <bjdmeest_> ... so we can do annotations to NY Times 3 weeks ago
... so we can do annotations to NY Times 3 weeks ago ←
23:58:50 <bjdmeest_> ... eg using redirects (same for ebooks), here is the archived version
... eg using redirects (same for ebooks), here is the archived version ←
23:59:15 <bjdmeest_> deborah: you can make a comment on a line, and historic comments are available on lines that no longer exist
Deborah Kaplan: you can make a comment on a line, and historic comments are available on lines that no longer exist ←
23:59:48 <bjdmeest_> ivan: issues: for publishers to move from EPUB3 to EPUBX is a challenge
Ivan Herman: issues: for publishers to move from EPUB3 to EPUBX is a challenge ←
00:00:12 <bjdmeest_> ... in fact, move from 2 to 3 has required a very big step, by keeping in line with HTML5
... in fact, move from 2 to 3 has required a very big step, by keeping in line with HTML5 ←
00:00:21 <bjdmeest_> ... so that step has been done
... so that step has been done ←
00:00:46 <bjdmeest_> ... whether it is zipped or multipart mime, doesn't really matter
... whether it is zipped or multipart mime, doesn't really matter ←
00:00:55 <bjdmeest_> ... [we're over the hump]
... [we're over the hump] ←
00:01:15 <bjdmeest_> Bill_Kasdorf: this [scheme] will make things easier
Bill Kasdorf: this [scheme] will make things easier ←
00:01:51 <bjdmeest_> ivan: for now, DPUBIG is the most sounding board to move on
Ivan Herman: for now, DPUBIG is the most sounding board to move on ←
00:01:58 <bjdmeest_> ... we need a wide reach out
... we need a wide reach out ←
00:02:35 <bjdmeest_> ... so updates on this document will flow back often to DPUBIG
... so updates on this document will flow back often to DPUBIG ←
00:03:29 <bjdmeest_> TimCole: perception is that HTML5 is insufficient, not all things are possible (eg, math)
Timothy Cole: perception is that HTML5 is insufficient, not all things are possible (eg, math) ←
00:03:48 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: eg unable to handle STEM
Markus Gylling: eg unable to handle STEM ←
00:04:30 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: we should add an extra bullet point to render STEM (basic and advanced)
Markus Gylling: we should add an extra bullet point to render STEM (basic and advanced) ←
00:05:43 <bjdmeest_> iBooks: ordering of the content (stream read): if you want to be able to read things before downloading everything, is important (when you the zip-path)
Scribe problem: the name 'iBooks' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown iBooks: ordering of the content (stream read): if you want to be able to read things before downloading everything, is important (when you the zip-path) ←
00:06:05 <bjdmeest_> ivan: reason for multipart-mime is exactly for streaming content
Ivan Herman: reason for multipart-mime is exactly for streaming content ←
00:06:40 <bjdmeest_> brady: I'll give you the old spec, a lot of work has been proposed
Brady Duga: I'll give you the old spec, a lot of work has been proposed ←
00:06:53 <bjdmeest_> ivan: do that!
Ivan Herman: do that! ←
00:07:47 <bjdmeest_> ivan: publishing industry should be part of the move, _now_
Ivan Herman: publishing industry should be part of the move, _now_ ←
00:08:24 <astearns> +1
Alan Stearns: +1 ←
00:08:27 <bjdmeest_> liam: [something about TAG, XCite?] could do random acces with stream content
Liam Quin: [something about TAG, XCite?] could do random acces with stream content ←
00:08:45 <bjdmeest_> ... it is not a done deal, but technical solutions are possible
... it is not a done deal, other technical solutions are possible ←
00:09:05 <liam> s/Xcite/EXI (efficient XML interchange format)
Liam Quin: s/Xcite/EXI (efficient XML interchange format) (warning: replacement failed) ←
00:09:12 <liam> s/Xcite/EXI (efficient XML interchange format)/
Liam Quin: s/Xcite/EXI (efficient XML interchange format)/ (warning: replacement failed) ←
00:09:30 <liam> s/deal, but/deal, other/
00:09:38 <bjdmeest_> ???: if I want to store a PhD, i need digital signature
???: if I want to store a PhD, i need digital signature ←
00:09:55 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: EPUB allows that, but it is certainly a use case
Markus Gylling: EPUB allows that, but it is certainly a use case ←
00:10:18 <bjdmeest_> ... eg use case for governments: they can make sure it is static
... eg use case for governments: they can make sure it is static ←
00:10:50 <bjdmeest_> TimCole: some publishers timestamp and IPaddress stamp publications, to get provenance
Timothy Cole: some publishers timestamp and IPaddress stamp publications, to get provenance ←
00:11:05 <bjdmeest_> tzviya: we call that social bookmarking
Tzviya Siegman: we call that social watermarking ←
00:11:11 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: we are not talk about DRM
Markus Gylling: we are not talk about DRM ←
00:11:42 <bjdmeest_> Bill_Kasdorf: refer to it as Rights Management, not Digital Rights Managment
Bill Kasdorf: refer to it as Rights Management, not Digital Rights Managment ←
00:12:10 <tzviya> s/bookmarking/watermarking
00:12:29 <bjdmeest_> Bill_Kasdorf: DRM has become access preventing, so let's not talk about it
Bill Kasdorf: DRM has become access preventing, so let's not talk about it ←
00:13:49 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: there is ongoing stuff, we need to act on that (eg CSS, webapps) for this archiving format to work
Markus Gylling: there is ongoing stuff, we need to act on that (eg CSS, webapps) for this archiving format to work ←
00:15:03 <bjdmeest_> ???: on discoverability, the context is not preserved, how is the metadata used for discoverability?
Scribe problem: the name 'takeshi' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown takeshi: on discoverability, the context is not preserved, how is the metadata used for discoverability? ←
00:15:20 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: packaging is just a state, publisher can provide unpackaged metadata
Markus Gylling: packaging is just a state, publisher can provide unpackaged metadata ←
00:15:32 <brady_duga> s/???/takeshi/
00:15:44 <bjdmeest_> ... packaging is just a state
... packaging is just a state ←
00:16:06 <bjdmeest_> iBooks: what would preclude a search engine to index this packaged format? they do this already for eg PDF
Scribe problem: the name 'iBooks' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown iBooks: what would preclude a search engine to index this packaged format? they do this already for eg PDF ←
00:16:33 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: it could be done by EPUB, but the zip archive needs to be searched, etc, ...
Markus Gylling: it could be done by EPUB, but the zip archive needs to be searched, etc, ... ←
00:16:48 <bjdmeest_> iBooks: same for PDF, Word, so it can happen
Scribe problem: the name 'iBooks' does not match any of the 84 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: ASOK BANDYOPADHYAY Akshat Joshi Alan Tam Alan Stearns Anton Leskovets Ayla Stein Ben Ko Ben De Meester Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Charles LaPierre Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Stroup David Singer Deborah Kaplan Dmitry Shkolnik Don Brutzman Doug Schepers Edward O'Connor Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Graham Bell Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Heather Reid Ivan Herman Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Julie Morris Jun Fujisawa Karen Myers Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Mahesh Kulkarni Manuel Rego Casasnovas Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Michael Miller Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Nishit Jain Paolo Ciccarese Paul Belfanti Peter Linss Peter Krautzberger Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Shinyu Murakami Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Timothy Cole Tom Burns Tom Habing Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky akiyoshi ibuki Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown iBooks: same for PDF, Word, so it can happen ←
00:17:12 <bjdmeest_> TimCole: so looking online for an epub, a link could be used for you local copy of that publication
Timothy Cole: so looking online for an epub, a link could be used for you local copy of that publication ←
00:17:40 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: yes, a digital publication search could just be an HTTP request
Markus Gylling: yes, a digital publication search could just be an HTTP request ←
00:18:22 <bjdmeest_> ... digital publication of this paper is upcoming
... digital publication of this paper is upcoming ←
00:18:59 <bjdmeest_> ... slides of BiB are public
... slides of BiB are public ←
00:19:25 <ivan> BiB Slides: http://www.w3.org/2014/Talks/1023-SF-IH/
Ivan Herman: BiB Slides: http://www.w3.org/2014/Talks/1023-SF-IH/ ←
00:19:36 <bjdmeest_> ivan: video will also become online
Ivan Herman: video will also become online ←
00:19:57 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/TPAC2014-F2F#Friday_31st_of_October
Tzviya Siegman: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/TPAC2014-F2F#Friday_31st_of_October ←
00:20:04 <bjdmeest_> topic: agenda tomorrow
00:20:15 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: first, STEM update by Peter
Markus Gylling: first, STEM update by Peter ←
00:21:09 <bjdmeest_> mgylling: next, metadata session, will there be resolutions? (@Bill_Kasdorf)
Markus Gylling: next, metadata session, will there be resolutions? (@Bill_Kasdorf) ←
00:21:31 <bjdmeest_> Bill_Kasdorf: yes, we will see which things to focus on
Bill Kasdorf: yes, we will see which things to focus on ←
00:21:38 <bjdmeest_> ... three directions
... three directions ←
00:21:53 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
00:21:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html ivan
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html ivan ←
00:23:36 <bjdmeest_> updates are in the wiki
updates are in the wiki ←
00:24:27 <bjdmeest_> Anne Bessalli: there is a tool Talky.io, to use a webcam (using web RTC) to 'skype in'
Ann Basetti: there is a tool Talky.io, to use a webcam (using web RTC) to 'skype in' ←
00:25:54 <bjdmeest_> ... also, there are talks about Schema.org, Danbri is a good contact for this, as well as ???, and James Snell
... also, there are talks about Schema.org, Danbri is a good contact for this, as well as ???, and James Snell ←
00:26:13 <Karen> s/Anne Bessalli/Ann Basetti
00:26:45 <ivan> ADJURNED
Ivan Herman: ADJURNED ←
00:26:57 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
00:26:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html ivan
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-minutes.html ivan ←
00:27:05 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
Ivan Herman: rrsagent, bye ←
00:27:05 <RRSAgent> I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-actions.rdf : ←
00:27:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Dave to add new section to Latin req that describes spread behaviors [1]
ACTION: Dave to add new section to Latin req that describes spread behaviors [1] ←
00:27:05 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc#T17-42-09
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc#T17-42-09 ←
00:27:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Cover bleeds [2]
ACTION: Cover bleeds [2] ←
00:27:05 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc#T17-48-28
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc#T17-48-28 ←
00:27:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Brady to start authoring page req doc with assistance from Markus and Liam [3]
ACTION: Brady to start authoring page req doc with assistance from Markus and Liam [3] ←
00:27:05 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc#T17-54-44
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc#T17-54-44 ←
00:27:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Tzviya to provide PDF examples of paginated content that cannot be done online [4]
ACTION: Tzviya to provide PDF examples of paginated content that cannot be done online [4] ←
00:27:05 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc#T18-01-10
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc#T18-01-10 ←
00:27:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Karen to initiate bus use case [5]
ACTION: Karen to initiate bus use case [5] ←
00:27:05 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc#T18-01-45
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc#T18-01-45 ←
00:27:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ShaneM to create a registry for ARIA roles in HTML 5 [6]
ACTION: ShaneM to create a registry for ARIA roles in HTML 5 [6] ←
00:27:05 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc#T22-08-31
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc#T22-08-31 ←
00:27:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: tzviya and company to review EPUB 3 SSV and pare down list for submission to PF [7]
ACTION: tzviya and company to review EPUB 3 SSV and pare down list for submission to PF [7] ←
00:27:05 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc#T22-24-28
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/30-dpub-irc#T22-24-28 ←
00:27:20 <ivan> zakim, drop seattle
Ivan Herman: zakim, drop seattle ←
00:27:20 <Zakim> Seattle is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: Seattle is being disconnected ←
00:27:22 <Zakim> DPUB_IG()11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_IG()11:00AM has ended ←
00:27:22 <Zakim> Attendees were Seattle
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Seattle ←
00:27:24 <ivan> zakim, bye
Ivan Herman: zakim, bye ←
Formatted by CommonScribe