Meeting Record

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Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 33 minutes ←

Liza Daly: Bill's notes for today: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata#NEAR_TERM_GOALS ←

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see liza, Ivan, benjaminsko, Laura, Julie_Morris_BISG, mgylling, Tzviya, [IPcaller], Tim_Cole, +1.212.364.aadd, ??P11, duga ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see brady_duga, Luc, Julie, philm, tzviya, benjaminsko, tmichel, liza, AH_Miller, david_stroup, Zakim, RRSAgent, mgylling, ivan, liam, trackbot, plinss, astearns ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see liza, Ivan, benjaminsko, Laura, Julie_Morris_BISG, mgylling, Tzviya, AH_Miller, Tim_Cole, philm, ??P11, duga, madi, david_stroup, +1.734.904.aaee, Vlad ←

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Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), karen ←

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see liza, Ivan, benjaminsko, Laura, Julie_Morris_BISG, mgylling, Tzviya, AH_Miller, Tim_Cole, philm, ??P11, duga, madi, david_stroup, Bill_Kasdorf, Vlad, ←

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Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see liza, Ivan, benjaminsko, Laura, Julie_Morris_BISG, mgylling, Tzviya, AH_Miller, Tim_Cole, philm, ??P11, duga, madi, david_stroup, Bill_Kasdorf, Vlad, ←

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laura dawson: product manager for identifiers at bowker, involved in digital publishing, spoke to Bill K about metadata ←

Liza Daly: Bill provided reading material based on interviews with metadata experts in industry ←

...there are some issues that Bill raised that are out of scope of W3C. e.g. identifiers - known problem, but we will not try to solve it ←

...we will talk about metadata as a method for transporting data, as in ONIX ←

...the network of metadata, that is the relationship of pieces of metadata to each other, is extremely relevant to web ←

...Bill interviewed people across industry. Madi interviewed experts within Pearson ←

Liza Daly: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Metadata#NEAR_TERM_GOALS ←

...complexity and inconsistency are major issues, driving a desire for simplicity ←

...leaning toward focusing on embedded metadata that aids in discoverability and sales ←

...Different regions have different specs for subject codes: BISAC, BIC, etc. Thema universalizes them ←

..example is content about specific battle in World War II. Thema classification does not go beyond WWII ←

...this gets to a separate point - I don't think we should get into vocabularies, other than providing the mechanism for creating them ←

...the approach of schema.org is to accept agreed upon but external terms. They do not want to standardize that ←

...this link points to a description of what schema.org will accept in a specific circumstance, in this case, wikipedia URIs ←

...what we need to agree upon is what schema.org will accept - what classes and properties, allowing for volatility within the specification to which they point ←

Bill Kasdorf: there are so many different sides to publishing, and not all needs are aligned ←

Tim Clark: another issue with things like ONIX, in addition to volatility, is the way that they are used ←

Bill Kasdorf: Recipients of metadata would like to see consistency, and publishers would like to see recipients standardize implementation ←

Liza Daly: is standardizing thema? is a recommendation for schema within scope of this group? ←

Phil Madans: agree that using vocabularies from different areas might be a good idea. ONIX sends a message with a lot of useful data, but some of it is not useful to web ←

...GS1 has useful info, but it doesn't have contributor element, so they used BISG best practices for ONIX ←

...We also need to look at different audiences. STM audience and general audience are going to be very different. ←

Unknown ljdn: Flexibility of allowing different vocabularies, but I would argue that trade books are not online YET ←

...there may be a case for search engines to index the structure vocab of book for search ←

Unknown TimCole: from the EPub blog a comment on about sufficiency of ONIX contributor codes and Library of Congress MARC relator codes for comic books: https://code.google.com/p/epub-revision/issues/detail?id=23 ←

...probably want to web-enable books, even if do not sell them as online books ←

Liza Daly: i get nervous when i hear ONIX-lite, because it sounds like we are creating a new standard and stepping on ONIX toes ←

Unknown ljnd: Tzviya, not make categories, just be aware that the publisher is not solely in control of describing their own books ←

Bill Kasdorf: There is a medical vocab called UMLS (?) with 1 mil concepts, maintained by NIH - one slice of STM ←

...issues arising, like subject, contributor, rights. Being able to base this on existing standards - point to an existing code list ←

...keywords is also important - author may not know what BISAC is, but can list keywords ←

Brady Duga: a little nervous about putting just metadata and no data on internet, people want to find information, not just metadata when they search ←

Liza Daly: agree, but I think it's reasonable for a search to lead to where can find information, not the actual info ←

Brady Duga: Sorry - I am in the portion of my trip when the call drops, so I can't really respond more. ←

Julie Morris: re: onix-lite concerns: BISG committee looking at schema.org and first identifying where connections already exist ←

...we may be able to identify where current schema.org elements mimic ONIX. i.e. we may not have to create ONIX-lite. ←

Bill Kasdorf: it may be a recommendation of how to include ONIX info in schema.org. ←

Liza Daly: this group could then write rec of HOW to include the info and how to process ←

Bill Kasdorf: we have been focusing on schema.org. Is there anything else from OWP that we should look at? ←

Ivan Herman: reinforce what Julie said: the first thing to do is look at existing vocabularies in schema.org to see if the exist, then add deltas ←

...to answer Bill's question, in core OWP specs, there are no major tech change or improvement to implement ←

Gerardo Capiel: process of getting new properties into schema.org is tricky and not completely transparent. Still a good idea, but there are other ways to do it ←

Ivan Herman: the first thing to do is talk to the people involved and sit down with people who represent this industry (BISG or others) ←

Ivan Herman: would need closer rep from Editeur if we invite schema.org reps to a meeting ←

Tzviya Siegman: I thought we had agreed to narrow scope to books because that is who the representation is and we had to narrow it down ←

Ivan Herman: if we take an exercise like ONIX, it helps to start with a smaller unit like books ←

...I am happy to invite reps from schema.org, but I don't want to step on BISG's toes ←

Julie Morris: BISG would be interested in making sure that our work is checked over by schema.org and we have a stamp of approval ←

Unknown TimCole: there is also a CG looking at bibliographic extensions (BibEx). Is that represented in this group? ←

Unknown ljdn: that group is not very active now and is focused on library work ←

Scribe problem: the name 'Laura' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Laura Dawson Laura Fowler . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were liza, Ivan, benjaminsko, +1.718.701.aaaa, Laura, +1.646.336.aabb, Tzviya, mgylling, +1.217.244.aacc, +1.212.364.aadd, Julie_Morris_BISG, Tim_Cole, duga, madi, philm, ←

Zakim IRC Bot: ... david_stroup, +1.734.904.aaee, AH_Miller, Vlad, Laura_Fowler, casey, Bill_Kasdorf, Bert, Karen_Myers, +33.9.53.85.aaff, aaff, gcapiel, Luc, dauwhe, Suzanne_Taylor ←

Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

Minutes of 28 April 2014