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15:41:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/13-dpub-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/13-dpub-irc ←
15:41:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
15:41:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be dpub ←
15:41:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 19 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 19 minutes ←
15:41:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:41:10 <trackbot> Date: 13 January 2014
15:51:42 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 10 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started ←
15:51:49 <Zakim> +Liza
Zakim IRC Bot: +Liza ←
15:53:59 <Zakim> +dauwhe
Zakim IRC Bot: +dauwhe ←
15:54:24 <azaroth> I can scribe today?
Robert Sanderson: I can scribe today? ←
15:55:05 <Zakim> +azaroth
Zakim IRC Bot: +azaroth ←
15:57:36 <Zakim> +Tzviya
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tzviya ←
15:57:58 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
15:57:58 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:58:00 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:58:31 <ivan> Regrets: Vlad, Laura, Brady
15:59:21 <Zakim> +Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: +Stearns ←
15:59:42 <Zakim> +??P37
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P37 ←
15:59:51 <mgylling> zakim, ??P37 is me
Markus Gylling: zakim, ??P37 is me ←
15:59:51 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mgylling; got it ←
15:59:59 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf
Zakim IRC Bot: +Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:00:23 <lizadaly> I hear plenty of beeping
Liza Daly: I hear plenty of beeping ←
16:01:13 <Zakim> +Bert
Zakim IRC Bot: +Bert ←
16:01:19 <Zakim> +laudrain
Zakim IRC Bot: +laudrain ←
16:01:34 <Zakim> +benjaminsko
Zakim IRC Bot: +benjaminsko ←
16:01:39 <dauwhe> Is the conference line actually working? I've heard no human voices.
Dave Cramer: Is the conference line actually working? I've heard no human voices. ←
16:01:43 <Zakim> +??P48
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P48 ←
16:01:56 <lizadaly> I just say 'hello' but heard nothing back
Liza Daly: I just say 'hello' but heard nothing back ←
16:02:02 <lizadaly> so I guess that's a 'no'
Liza Daly: so I guess that's a 'no' ←
16:02:02 <Zakim> +AWK
Zakim IRC Bot: +AWK ←
16:02:03 <gcapiel> Zakim, ??P48 is me
Gerardo Capiel: Zakim, ??P48 is me ←
16:02:03 <Zakim> +gcapiel; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gcapiel; got it ←
16:02:05 <dauwhe> I've heard nothing.
Dave Cramer: I've heard nothing. ←
16:02:14 <azaroth> Other than beeps
Robert Sanderson: Other than beeps ←
16:02:15 <ivan> heh neither do I
Ivan Herman: heh neither do I ←
16:02:24 <mgylling> /me its a tibetan-style concall this week
Markus Gylling: /me its a tibetan-style concall this week ←
16:02:26 <Luc> neither do i
Luc Audrain: neither do i ←
16:02:27 <Zakim> -AWK
Scribe problem: the name 'AWK' does not match any of the 63 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jean Kaplansky Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Jun Fujisawa Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Peter Linss Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Bowles Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -AWK ←
16:02:28 <lizadaly> I assume Markus is just bored
Liza Daly: I assume Markus is just bored ←
16:02:57 <Zakim> +AWK
Zakim IRC Bot: +AWK ←
16:03:09 <dauwhe> Zakim, wtf?
Dave Cramer: Zakim, wtf? ←
16:03:09 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, dauwhe.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, dauwhe. ←
16:03:15 <ivan> :-)
Ivan Herman: :-) ←
16:03:22 <mgylling> Zakim, get your friggin act together
Markus Gylling: Zakim, get your friggin act together ←
16:03:22 <Zakim> I don't understand 'get your friggin act together', mgylling
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'get your friggin act together', mgylling ←
16:03:24 <lizadaly> Zakim has a case of the Mondays
Liza Daly: Zakim has a case of the Mondays ←
16:03:25 <azaroth> zakim, who is making noise?
Robert Sanderson: zakim, who is making noise? ←
16:03:27 <Zakim> +Sharad_Garg
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sharad_Garg ←
16:03:28 <Zakim> +[Ugent]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[Ugent] ←
16:03:36 <Zakim> azaroth, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
Zakim IRC Bot: azaroth, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds ←
16:03:36 <TomDN> Zakim, [Ugent] is me
Tom De Nies: Zakim, [Ugent] is me ←
16:03:37 <Zakim> +TomDN; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TomDN; got it ←
16:03:42 <TomDN> zakim, mute me
Tom De Nies: zakim, mute me ←
16:03:42 <Zakim> TomDN was already muted, TomDN
Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN was already muted, TomDN ←
16:03:42 <azaroth> zakim, correct :(
Robert Sanderson: zakim, correct :( ←
16:03:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'correct :(', azaroth
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'correct :(', azaroth ←
16:03:53 <mgylling> ivan, should we restart or sth?
Markus Gylling: ivan, should we restart or sth? ←
16:03:56 <azaroth> zakim, unmute me
Robert Sanderson: zakim, unmute me ←
16:03:57 <Zakim> azaroth should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: azaroth should no longer be muted ←
16:04:05 <lizadaly> Hear that!
16:04:10 <mgylling> zakim, unmute me
Markus Gylling: zakim, unmute me ←
16:04:10 <Zakim> mgylling should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: mgylling should no longer be muted ←
16:04:13 <lizadaly> zakim, unmute me
16:04:13 <Zakim> sorry, lizadaly, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, lizadaly, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
16:04:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> I can hear now
Bill Kasdorf: I can hear now ←
16:04:31 <TomDN> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Tom De Nies: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
16:04:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see Liza (muted), dauwhe (muted), azaroth, Tzviya (muted), Ivan (muted), Stearns (muted), mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf (muted), Bert (muted), laudrain (muted), benjaminsko
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Liza (muted), dauwhe (muted), azaroth, Tzviya (muted), Ivan (muted), Stearns (muted), mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf (muted), Bert (muted), laudrain (muted), benjaminsko ←
16:04:35 <Zakim> ... (muted), gcapiel (muted), AWK (muted), Sharad_Garg (muted), TomDN (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: ... (muted), gcapiel (muted), AWK (muted), Sharad_Garg (muted), TomDN (muted) ←
16:04:39 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me ←
16:04:39 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted ←
16:04:41 <dauwhe> Zakim, unmute me
Dave Cramer: Zakim, unmute me ←
16:04:42 <Zakim> dauwhe should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: dauwhe should no longer be muted ←
16:04:42 <mgylling> zakim, umnmute all
Markus Gylling: zakim, umnmute all ←
16:04:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'umnmute all', mgylling
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'umnmute all', mgylling ←
16:04:46 <astearns> zakim, unmute me
Alan Stearns: zakim, unmute me ←
16:04:46 <Zakim> sorry, astearns, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, astearns, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
16:04:48 <lizadaly> How do I tell it which line I'm on?
Liza Daly: How do I tell it which line I'm on? ←
16:04:50 <Luc> zakim, unmute me
Luc Audrain: zakim, unmute me ←
16:04:50 <Zakim> sorry, Luc, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Luc, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
16:04:57 <azaroth> zakim, unmute sharad_garg
Robert Sanderson: zakim, unmute sharad_garg ←
16:04:57 <Zakim> Sharad_Garg should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Sharad_Garg should no longer be muted ←
16:04:58 <astearns> zakim, unmute stearns
Alan Stearns: zakim, unmute stearns ←
16:04:58 <Zakim> Stearns should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Stearns should no longer be muted ←
16:05:06 <gcapiel> Zakim, unmute MemoServ
Gerardo Capiel: Zakim, unmute MemoServ ←
16:05:08 <Zakim> sorry, gcapiel, I do not know which phone connection belongs to MemoServ
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, gcapiel, I do not know which phone connection belongs to MemoServ ←
16:05:08 <dshkolnik> Zakim, unmute
Dmitry Shkolnik: Zakim, unmute ←
16:05:08 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmute', dshkolnik
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'unmute', dshkolnik ←
16:05:15 <ivan> zakim, unmute lizadaly
Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute lizadaly ←
16:05:15 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not know which phone connection belongs to lizadaly
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ivan, I do not know which phone connection belongs to lizadaly ←
16:05:16 <azaroth> zakim, unmute tzviya
Robert Sanderson: zakim, unmute tzviya ←
16:05:16 <Zakim> Tzviya should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Tzviya should no longer be muted ←
16:05:19 <dshkolnik> Zakim, unmute me
Dmitry Shkolnik: Zakim, unmute me ←
16:05:19 <Zakim> sorry, dshkolnik, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, dshkolnik, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
16:05:21 <Bill_Kasdorf> I mute and unmute locally. Since I can hear, do I need to unmute on Zakim?
Bill Kasdorf: I mute and unmute locally. Since I can hear, do I need to unmute on Zakim? ←
16:05:23 <gcapiel> Zakim, unmute me
Gerardo Capiel: Zakim, unmute me ←
16:05:23 <Zakim> gcapiel should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: gcapiel should no longer be muted ←
16:05:29 <azaroth> zakim, who is on the phone
Robert Sanderson: zakim, who is on the phone ←
16:05:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', azaroth
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is on the phone', azaroth ←
16:05:40 <azaroth> zakim, who is on the phone?
Robert Sanderson: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
16:05:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Liza (muted), dauwhe, azaroth, Tzviya, Ivan, Stearns, mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf (muted), Bert, laudrain, benjaminsko (muted), gcapiel, AWK (muted), Sharad_Garg,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Liza (muted), dauwhe, azaroth, Tzviya, Ivan, Stearns, mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf (muted), Bert, laudrain, benjaminsko (muted), gcapiel, AWK (muted), Sharad_Garg, ←
16:05:43 <Zakim> ... TomDN (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: ... TomDN (muted) ←
16:05:47 <Zakim> +tm
Zakim IRC Bot: +tm ←
16:05:55 <azaroth> scribe: azaroth
(Scribe set to Robert Sanderson)
16:05:56 <Liza> zakim, unmute me
16:05:56 <Zakim> Liza should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Liza should no longer be muted ←
16:06:02 <Liza> BOOM
16:06:05 <tmichel> zakim, tm is tmichel
Thierry Michel: zakim, tm is tmichel ←
16:06:05 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tmichel; got it ←
16:06:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> How?
Bill Kasdorf: How? ←
16:06:11 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
16:06:15 <fjh> zakim, IPcaller is me
Frederick Hirsch: zakim, IPcaller is me ←
16:06:15 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +fjh; got it ←
16:06:21 <azaroth> zakim, who is making noise?
zakim, who is making noise? ←
16:06:26 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
Frederick Hirsch: zakim, who is here? ←
16:06:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see Liza, dauwhe, azaroth, Tzviya, Ivan, Stearns, mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf (muted), Bert, laudrain, benjaminsko (muted), gcapiel, AWK, Sharad_Garg, TomDN (muted),
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Liza, dauwhe, azaroth, Tzviya, Ivan, Stearns, mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf (muted), Bert, laudrain, benjaminsko (muted), gcapiel, AWK, Sharad_Garg, TomDN (muted), ←
16:06:30 <Zakim> ... tmichel (muted), fjh (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: ... tmichel (muted), fjh (muted) ←
16:06:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see TomDN, Sharad, benjaminsko, dshkolnik, Bert, gcapiel, fjh, Bill_Kasdorf, mgylling, Luc, tzviya, Liza, azaroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, tmichel, ivan, dauwhe, plinss,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see TomDN, Sharad, benjaminsko, dshkolnik, Bert, gcapiel, fjh, Bill_Kasdorf, mgylling, Luc, tzviya, Liza, azaroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, tmichel, ivan, dauwhe, plinss, ←
16:06:30 <Zakim> ... astearns, liam, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... astearns, liam, trackbot ←
16:06:31 <Zakim> azaroth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: dauwhe (4%), Ivan (25%), laudrain (42%)
Zakim IRC Bot: azaroth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: dauwhe (4%), Ivan (25%), laudrain (42%) ←
16:07:01 <fjh> zakim, unmute me
Frederick Hirsch: zakim, unmute me ←
16:07:01 <Zakim> fjh should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: fjh should no longer be muted ←
16:07:05 <Zakim> +Liam
Zakim IRC Bot: +Liam ←
16:07:29 <Bill_Kasdorf> 60#
Bill Kasdorf: 60# ←
16:07:43 <azaroth> Markus: As we decided last week, another week on LatinReq focus. We ended the last call thinking we scratched the surface, so will continue another week
Markus Gylling: As we decided last week, another week on LatinReq focus. We ended the last call thinking we scratched the surface, so will continue another week ←
16:07:59 <azaroth> ... before we do that we need to approve previous meetings minutes
... before we do that we need to approve previous meetings minutes ←
16:08:06 <azaroth> ... Approved
... Approved ←
16:08:44 <azaroth> Ivan: An admin thing before we start, I just want to warn you that we had a security breach at W3C.
Ivan Herman: An admin thing before we start, I just want to warn you that we had a security breach at W3C. ←
16:08:53 <azaroth> ... at some point you may be asked to change your password.
... at some point you may be asked to change your password. ←
16:09:15 <azaroth> ... When you try to log in to a member restricted area, you'll be asked to change. We're testing the system now with the team.
... When you try to log in to a member restricted area, you'll be asked to change. We're testing the system now with the team. ←
16:09:29 <azaroth> ???: When we see that, we should just go ahead and change it?
Frederick Hirsch: When we see that, we should just go ahead and change it? ←
16:09:40 <fjh> s/???/fjh/
16:09:43 <azaroth> Ivan: Yes, you can postpone for two weeks, but will need to do it at some point
Ivan Herman: Yes, you can postpone for two weeks, but will need to do it at some point ←
16:10:02 <azaroth> Markus: Dave, can you give a quick recap of what we covered last week to get back into the mode?
Markus Gylling: Dave, can you give a quick recap of what we covered last week to get back into the mode? ←
16:10:41 <azaroth> dauwhe: I droned on about dropcaps for a while, some low hanging fruit for CSS. talked about some issues people are having in ebook systems, such as hyphenation and justification
Dave Cramer: I droned on about dropcaps for a while, some low hanging fruit for CSS. talked about some issues people are having in ebook systems, such as hyphenation and justification ←
16:11:08 <azaroth> ... We talked about image and caption sizing, quite a bit about various efforts to bring typographic sophistication to the web.
... We talked about image and caption sizing, quite a bit about various efforts to bring typographic sophistication to the web. ←
16:11:46 <azaroth> ... On Sunday I updated latinreq document, alan sent a nice intro text on grids. Added a section about justification and hyphenation, as a concern for a lot of us.
... On Sunday I updated latinreq document, alan sent a nice intro text on grids. Added a section about justification and hyphenation, as a concern for a lot of us. ←
16:12:03 <azaroth> ... so I thought today we could talk about that this week, and about grids and underlying issues they may solve
... so I thought today we could talk about that this week, and about grids and underlying issues they may solve ←
16:12:19 <azaroth> ... Just sent the list a detailed email about table alignment.
... Just sent the list a detailed email about table alignment. ←
16:12:28 <azaroth> ... Anything I forgot to mention?
... Anything I forgot to mention? ←
16:12:41 <Zakim> +madi
Zakim IRC Bot: +madi ←
16:13:00 <azaroth> Markus: We had email thread from last week where ben and luke posted some issues. Felt to me like if we cover table alignment and so on today, that's a good amount
Markus Gylling: We had email thread from last week where ben and luke posted some issues. Felt to me like if we cover table alignment and so on today, that's a good amount ←
16:13:17 <azaroth> ... tell us about H. and Justi~n and where we should end up?
... tell us about H. and Justi~n and where we should end up? ←
16:13:42 <astearns> dauwhe: could you post latinreq URL? The task force wiki page has the wrong link.
Dave Cramer: could you post latinreq URL? The task force wiki page has the wrong link. [ Scribe Assist by Alan Stearns ] ←
16:13:54 <azaroth> Dave: A couple of things. I wonder if we're at the point where we or some other group need to be detailed about what we want to see. What does it mean for a book reading system to do a good job with the text
Dave Cramer: A couple of things. I wonder if we're at the point where we or some other group need to be detailed about what we want to see. What does it mean for a book reading system to do a good job with the text ←
16:13:56 <dauwhe> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/index.html
Dave Cramer: http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/index.html ←
16:14:00 <tzviya> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/
Tzviya Siegman: http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/ ←
16:14:41 <azaroth> ... so one possibility on Hypenation... a lot depends on dictionaries. Had experience with good and bad ones. Is it possible to say which is good or not so good with various languages?
... so one possibility on Hypenation... a lot depends on dictionaries. Had experience with good and bad ones. Is it possible to say which is good or not so good with various languages? ←
16:14:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
16:14:44 <tzviya> q+
Tzviya Siegman: q+ ←
16:15:05 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:15:06 <azaroth> ... could contribute best practices on how to build it into rendering engine
... could contribute best practices on how to build it into rendering engine ←
16:15:31 <azaroth> Bill_Kasdorf: In a lot of disciplines there are specialized dictionaries needed, due to terminology
Bill Kasdorf: In a lot of disciplines there are specialized dictionaries needed, due to terminology ←
16:15:37 <liam> +1
16:15:45 <azaroth> ... some way to accommodate this is important, esp for medical.
... some way to accommodate this is important, esp for medical. ←
16:15:55 <azaroth> Dave: At individual title level, exception dict is important
Dave Cramer: At individual title level, exception dict is important ←
16:16:21 <azaroth> ... per file or copy, the dictionary is a critical piece to supply hyphenation exceptions
... per file or copy, the dictionary is a critical piece to supply hyphenation exceptions ←
16:16:34 <azaroth> Markus: To understand, the document provider should declare which dict to use?
Markus Gylling: To understand, the document provider should declare which dict to use? ←
16:16:53 <azaroth> Bill: In addition to the built in, should use Steadman's medical dictionary as authority for hypen~n
Bill Kasdorf: In addition to the built in, should use Steadman's medical dictionary as authority for hypen~n ←
16:17:10 <Luc> q+
Luc Audrain: q+ ←
16:17:17 <azaroth> ... sometimes a publisher will have an individual list of words it knows will be problematic in a title and provide list of dozen such terms
... sometimes a publisher will have an individual list of words it knows will be problematic in a title and provide list of dozen such terms ←
16:17:27 <azaroth> Markus: So not in a dictionary, local to the particular title
Markus Gylling: So not in a dictionary, local to the particular title ←
16:17:28 <azaroth> q+
q+ ←
16:17:45 <azaroth> Dave: various systems have ways to enter new terms to override
Dave Cramer: various systems have ways to enter new terms to override ←
16:17:56 <mgylling> ack tzviya
Markus Gylling: ack tzviya ←
16:17:58 <azaroth> Markus: Sounds like 2 clear requirements to formulate
Markus Gylling: Sounds like 2 clear requirements to formulate ←
16:18:26 <azaroth> Tzviuya: Same as BIl, but as we get into more advanced fields, need expanded on. Medicine is broad, but grad level chemistry things get complicated
Scribe problem: the name 'Tzviuya' does not match any of the 63 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jean Kaplansky Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Jun Fujisawa Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Peter Linss Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Bowles Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Tzviuya: Same as BIl, but as we get into more advanced fields, need expanded on. Medicine is broad, but grad level chemistry things get complicated ←
16:18:27 <mgylling> ack Liam
Markus Gylling: ack Liam ←
16:18:28 <Zakim> Liam, you wanted to note it may vary within a document
Zakim IRC Bot: Liam, you wanted to note it may vary within a document ←
16:18:55 <azaroth> Liam: Live in a multilingual web, and multidiscipline. Might need multiple dictionaries for a single document
Liam Quin: Live in a multilingual web, and multidiscipline. Might need multiple dictionaries for a single document ←
16:19:04 <azaroth> ... saw this with print publications in 80s
... saw this with print publications in 80s ←
16:19:20 <azaroth> Markus: Any effort in W3C in this area so far?
Markus Gylling: Any effort in W3C in this area so far? ←
16:19:32 <azaroth> Liam: Nothing beyond what we did in XSL FO.
Liam Quin: Nothing beyond what we did in XSL FO. ←
16:19:39 <azaroth> q-
q- ←
16:20:05 <azaroth> Dave: Is there a standard for even describing hypen~n like TeX style that aren't easy to understand
Dave Cramer: Is there a standard for even describing hypen~n like TeX style that aren't easy to understand ←
16:20:09 <azaroth> Liam: Not aware of any
16:20:20 <azaroth> ... eg words in German that change spelling when you hypenate them
... eg words in German that change spelling when you hypenate them ←
16:20:25 <azaroth> ... might be in OpenOffice
... might be in OpenOffice ←
16:20:30 <mgylling> ack Luc
Markus Gylling: ack Luc ←
16:20:53 <azaroth> Luc: Proper way to solve this is perhaps to rely on hypen~n inside the text
Luc Audrain: Proper way to solve this is perhaps to rely on hypen~n inside the text ←
16:21:14 <azaroth> ... in a limited environment could be possible to prepare text with the special words / preferred hypenation
... in a limited environment could be possible to prepare text with the special words / preferred hypenation ←
16:21:15 <astearns> so far, all CSS says about hyphenation dictionaries is that the user agent must choose a language appropriate resource
Alan Stearns: so far, all CSS says about hyphenation dictionaries is that the user agent must choose a language appropriate resource ←
16:21:33 <azaroth> ... question may be to find a good composition engine that takes into account the preferred places in the words
... question may be to find a good composition engine that takes into account the preferred places in the words ←
16:21:54 <azaroth> ... as in EPUB with fixed content document, could be prepared in advance
... as in EPUB with fixed content document, could be prepared in advance ←
16:22:08 <azaroth> ... so not to rely on external dictionaries
... so not to rely on external dictionaries ←
16:22:13 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
16:22:20 <mgylling> ack Liam
Markus Gylling: ack Liam ←
16:22:20 <Zakim> Liam, you wanted to note trend is away from inline resources and towards separate resources; also, browsers today *do* do hyphenation, just don't support per-page or per-site
Zakim IRC Bot: Liam, you wanted to note trend is away from inline resources and towards separate resources; also, browsers today *do* do hyphenation, just don't support per-page or per-site ←
16:22:23 <Zakim> ... dictionaries directly, and problem with search, google, etc
Zakim IRC Bot: ... dictionaries directly, and problem with search, google, etc ←
16:22:33 <astearns> +1 to Liam's point
Alan Stearns: +1 to Liam's point ←
16:22:46 <azaroth> Liam: Trend is away from inline and towards external, like CSS and fonts
Liam Quin: Trend is away from inline and towards external, like CSS and fonts ←
16:22:59 <azaroth> ... when people look at 2 or more pages, is better
... when people look at 2 or more pages, is better ←
16:23:20 <azaroth> ... but don't support hyphenation. Search in page stops working etc.
... but don't support hyphenation. Search in page stops working etc. ←
16:23:26 <azaroth> ... More that needs to be specified
... More that needs to be specified ←
16:23:26 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:23:48 <azaroth> Bill: Almost always a dict is used in tandem with an algorithm as it doesn't provide all possible words
Bill Kasdorf: Almost always a dict is used in tandem with an algorithm as it doesn't provide all possible words ←
16:23:59 <azaroth> ... if present in dict it takes precedence
... if present in dict it takes precedence ←
16:24:06 <Luc> +1
Luc Audrain: +1 ←
16:24:07 <azaroth> Dave: Using dict in a very broad sense
Dave Cramer: Using dict in a very broad sense ←
16:24:22 <astearns> dauwhe: you can encode prioritization in some systems (two dischys for a better break, for example)
Dave Cramer: you can encode prioritization in some systems (two dischys for a better break, for example) [ Scribe Assist by Alan Stearns ] ←
16:24:42 <azaroth> Bill: In all languages many examples of limitations where you can't do it without context, eg pres/ent and pre/sent
Bill Kasdorf: In all languages many examples of limitations where you can't do it without context, eg pres/ent and pre/sent ←
16:24:48 <mgylling> q?
Markus Gylling: q? ←
16:25:08 <azaroth> Dave: Situation out there in the wild is bad, we want to improve it, but not going to get perfection
Dave Cramer: Situation out there in the wild is bad, we want to improve it, but not going to get perfection ←
16:25:14 <azaroth> Bill: Yes, not attainable
Bill Kasdorf: Yes, not attainable ←
16:25:16 <Luc> q+
Luc Audrain: q+ ←
16:25:25 <azaroth> Dave: There's a lot we can do in this area for requirements
Dave Cramer: There's a lot we can do in this area for requirements ←
16:25:30 <mgylling> ack Luc
Markus Gylling: ack Luc ←
16:25:33 <azaroth> ... perhaps moving on to justification
... perhaps moving on to justification ←
16:26:09 <azaroth> Luc: Main question remains, if dictionaries used for exceptions, on algorithms used in OWP to calculate line length and breaking
Luc Audrain: Main question remains, if dictionaries used for exceptions, on algorithms used in OWP to calculate line length and breaking ←
16:26:27 <azaroth> ... or declare them?
... or declare them? ←
16:26:47 <azaroth> Luc: Don't know which should be used but would like to know which are available? Does each browser have their own?
Luc Audrain: Don't know which should be used but would like to know which are available? Does each browser have their own? ←
16:26:59 <liam> [document providers will be able to say they prefer a particular algorithm from a well-known list; I hope to see at least two supported (first-fit as now, and n-line) ]
Liam Quin: [document providers will be able to say they prefer a particular algorithm from a well-known list; I hope to see at least two supported (first-fit as now, and n-line) ] ←
16:27:16 <astearns> q+ to mention ladders
Alan Stearns: q+ to mention ladders ←
16:27:24 <azaroth> Dave: It becomes a bit intertwined with justification at that point to decide
Dave Cramer: It becomes a bit intertwined with justification at that point to decide ←
16:27:26 <mgylling> ack astearns
Markus Gylling: ack astearns ←
16:27:26 <Zakim> astearns, you wanted to mention ladders
Zakim IRC Bot: astearns, you wanted to mention ladders ←
16:28:09 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
16:28:33 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:29:42 <azaroth_> Markus: Okay, moving on...
Markus Gylling: Okay, moving on... ←
16:29:51 <azaroth_> Dave: Should we talk about tables a bit?
Dave Cramer: Should we talk about tables a bit? ←
16:30:01 <azaroth_> ... I think this a good and interesting topic
... I think this a good and interesting topic ←
16:30:24 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/CA+EQKqi5UqFG_6X7hKnH0CxQBeWRnopzxg5THpXQYG_smX84JA@mail.gmail.com mail sent just now
Ivan Herman: -> http://www.w3.org/mid/CA+EQKqi5UqFG_6X7hKnH0CxQBeWRnopzxg5THpXQYG_smX84JA@mail.gmail.com mail sent just now ←
16:30:37 <azaroth_> ... Ben has done a tremendous amount of research into automated rendering for HE texts
... Ben has done a tremendous amount of research into automated rendering for HE texts ←
16:31:02 <azaroth_> Ben: I sent a mail to the list. Higher level -- line on character support, but can be on any character often decimals
Ben Ko: I sent a mail to the list. Higher level -- line on character support, but can be on any character often decimals ←
16:31:15 <azaroth_> Second is support for flush left center. Not sure there's a standard term.
Second is support for flush left center. Not sure there's a standard term. ←
16:31:41 <azaroth_> ... FLC is a common variation on FL and FC, not supported in things even like InDesign
... FLC is a common variation on FL and FC, not supported in things even like InDesign ←
16:31:48 <azaroth_> Ivan: What does it do?
Ivan Herman: What does it do? ←
16:32:26 <azaroth_> Ben: What's the difference? FLC says look at the column, find the longest line in the entries, center that line, and then take all the other lines and flush left on that longest, centered line
Ben Ko: What's the difference? FLC says look at the column, find the longest line in the entries, center that line, and then take all the other lines and flush left on that longest, centered line ←
16:32:30 <Bill_Kasdorf> That is used in poetry as well as tables
Bill Kasdorf: That is used in poetry as well as tables ←
16:32:42 <azaroth_> Markus: Flush meaning align the left most character with the base
Markus Gylling: Flush meaning align the left most character with the base ←
16:32:50 <azaroth_> Ben: Yup, align left
16:32:56 <azaroth_> Bill: Also done in poetry
Bill Kasdorf: Also done in poetry ←
16:33:11 <azaroth_> Ben: Third is preventing line wrap if you have cells aligning on a character or word
Ben Ko: Third is preventing line wrap if you have cells aligning on a character or word ←
16:33:27 <mgylling> important point re poetry, means this is not table-specific alignment behavior
Markus Gylling: important point re poetry, means this is not table-specific alignment behavior ←
16:33:28 <azaroth_> ... Fourth, table widths. Lots of notes about requirements. Ask group if I should document?
... Fourth, table widths. Lots of notes about requirements. Ask group if I should document? ←
16:33:30 <dauwhe> q+
Dave Cramer: q+ ←
16:33:45 <azaroth_> ... idea is that tables don't size to some arbitrary dimension, set by fixed width
... idea is that tables don't size to some arbitrary dimension, set by fixed width ←
16:33:45 <tzviya> q+
Tzviya Siegman: q+ ←
16:33:57 <azaroth_> ... idea partially aesthetics and relationships between tables
... idea partially aesthetics and relationships between tables ←
16:34:05 <dauwhe> q-
Dave Cramer: q- ←
16:34:07 <azaroth_> ... 4 tables that showed similar data and should be considered together
... 4 tables that showed similar data and should be considered together ←
16:34:18 <azaroth_> ... if rendered at diff sizes may be hard to see they're related
... if rendered at diff sizes may be hard to see they're related ←
16:34:51 <azaroth> ... can't preset the width, so have to be able to set table to some choice of width that is provided
... can't preset the width, so have to be able to set table to some choice of width that is provided ←
16:35:00 <azaroth> ... those are the high level points so far
... those are the high level points so far ←
16:35:21 <azaroth> ... Alan? you replied on list, can you read it back to discuss?
... Alan? you replied on list, can you read it back to discuss? ←
16:35:34 <azaroth> Alan: You had steps for aligning on a character eg decimal. didn't seem right
Scribe problem: the name 'Alan' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Alan Tam Alan Stearns . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Alan: You had steps for aligning on a character eg decimal. didn't seem right ←
16:35:46 <azaroth> ... centering portion can't be part of the algorithm sometimes
... centering portion can't be part of the algorithm sometimes ←
16:35:53 <azaroth> Ben: Circumstance?
16:36:06 <azaroth> Alan: Gave some sample data in reply.
Scribe problem: the name 'Alan' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Alan Tam Alan Stearns . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Alan: Gave some sample data in reply. ←
16:36:28 <azaroth> ... Can result in case where nothing is centred and that's appropriate
... Can result in case where nothing is centred and that's appropriate ←
16:36:52 <azaroth> Ben: Yes, true.
16:36:55 <Liza> q+
16:37:00 <azaroth> \me notes scribe isn't understanding discussion
\me notes scribe isn't understanding discussion ←
16:37:30 <azaroth> Alan: Focus more on discussion and less on an algorithm. Could be a faster algorithm. Just talk about requirements not necessarily steps
Scribe problem: the name 'Alan' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Alan Tam Alan Stearns . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Alan: Focus more on discussion and less on an algorithm. Could be a faster algorithm. Just talk about requirements not necessarily steps ←
16:37:47 <azaroth> Ben: Fair enough. I think in this case I think we want to stay away from implementation details
Ben Ko: Fair enough. I think in this case I think we want to stay away from implementation details ←
16:38:00 <azaroth> ... trying to give examples that there's additional details to consider
... trying to give examples that there's additional details to consider ←
16:38:32 <azaroth> ... agree that when more digits on one side in one cell, and more on the other side in another cell, but no individual cell would be centered
... agree that when more digits on one side in one cell, and more on the other side in another cell, but no individual cell would be centered ←
16:38:40 <mgylling> ack tzviya
Markus Gylling: ack tzviya ←
16:38:43 <azaroth> Markus: Shall we go through Q?
Markus Gylling: Shall we go through Q? ←
16:39:07 <azaroth> Tzviya: Snapping to width is relevant, often related to trim size. Data relevant to a section needs to be presented in the same way.
Tzviya Siegman: Snapping to width is relevant, often related to trim size. Data relevant to a section needs to be presented in the same way. ←
16:39:40 <azaroth> ... also spans and straddles -- can be difficult to achive with CSS, esp with centre the content within a span. In HE content often see vertical text, not sure if we want to mention in high level reqs but will come up
... also spans and straddles -- can be difficult to achive with CSS, esp with centre the content within a span. In HE content often see vertical text, not sure if we want to mention in high level reqs but will come up ←
16:39:44 <azaroth> Ben: Agreed
16:39:48 <mgylling> ack Liza
Markus Gylling: ack Liza ←
16:39:58 <Bill_Kasdorf> Do you mean vertical text or rotated text?
Bill Kasdorf: Do you mean vertical text or rotated text? ←
16:40:06 <astearns> I think we should definitely mention Latin vertical text requirements
Alan Stearns: I think we should definitely mention Latin vertical text requirements ←
16:40:06 <azaroth> Liza: To what extent do we want to consider tables in mobile devices where there's no room
Liza Daly: To what extent do we want to consider tables in mobile devices where there's no room ←
16:40:11 <tzviya> +100
Tzviya Siegman: +100 ←
16:40:16 <azaroth> ... problem with basic html in reading systems
... problem with basic html in reading systems ←
16:40:20 <azaroth> +100 from me too
+100 from me too ←
16:40:37 <azaroth> ... Do we want to dictate what the behaviour should be when the reading system can't fill the space
... Do we want to dictate what the behaviour should be when the reading system can't fill the space ←
16:40:58 <azaroth> Markus: Something that Tzviya has talked about as well. The most basic things not working. A separate cluster of requirements?
Markus Gylling: Something that Tzviya has talked about as well. The most basic things not working. A separate cluster of requirements? ←
16:41:29 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
16:41:31 <azaroth> Dave: First thought is it sounds like a separate cluster of fallbacks for tables in limited screen real estate, how tables should degrade. Haven;t thought about it a lot
Dave Cramer: First thought is it sounds like a separate cluster of fallbacks for tables in limited screen real estate, how tables should degrade. Haven;t thought about it a lot ←
16:41:39 <azaroth> ... expect other people have spent more time
... expect other people have spent more time ←
16:41:50 <azaroth> Markus: What task force? Tzviya, under adaptive?
Markus Gylling: What task force? Tzviya, under adaptive? ←
16:42:22 <azaroth> Tzviya: I mentioned it. If we talk about tables in this document, we should mention it. That it won't render everywhere. Also Bill was considering -- not everything can function as a table in mobile
Tzviya Siegman: I mentioned it. If we talk about tables in this document, we should mention it. That it won't render everywhere. Also Bill was considering -- not everything can function as a table in mobile ←
16:42:31 <azaroth> ... not sure a fallback would be the way we define it
... not sure a fallback would be the way we define it ←
16:42:42 <azaroth> Dave: Just using to mean some simplified arrangement
Dave Cramer: Just using to mean some simplified arrangement ←
16:42:55 <azaroth> Liza: Not to increase the scope, but need a position on it as a real issue
Liza Daly: Not to increase the scope, but need a position on it as a real issue ←
16:43:02 <azaroth> Markus: Agreed, been up before and we need to cover it
Markus Gylling: Agreed, been up before and we need to cover it ←
16:43:32 <azaroth> Dave: latinreq might be the place to describe the high end use case, what we want to do with tables, but not the place to work on more restrictive circumstances
Dave Cramer: latinreq might be the place to describe the high end use case, what we want to do with tables, but not the place to work on more restrictive circumstances ←
16:43:40 <azaroth> Markus: Natural home? Tzviya?
Markus Gylling: Natural home? Tzviya? ←
16:43:50 <azaroth> Tzviya: Still trying to figure out what my area is :)
Tzviya Siegman: Still trying to figure out what my area is :) ←
16:43:59 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:43:59 <azaroth> ... do have a use case, so can bring it up. Sure.
... do have a use case, so can bring it up. Sure. ←
16:44:34 <azaroth> Bill: Just to point out that there's an obvious behaviour that compensates -- the ability to hide rows or columns. Typically not reading everything, just looking something up
Bill Kasdorf: Just to point out that there's an obvious behaviour that compensates -- the ability to hide rows or columns. Typically not reading everything, just looking something up ←
16:44:45 <azaroth> ... don't care about columns 2-4 to look up something in column 5
... don't care about columns 2-4 to look up something in column 5 ←
16:45:00 <azaroth> ... so if you can hide them, you can see it on your phone
... so if you can hide them, you can see it on your phone ←
16:45:21 <Zakim> -Sharad_Garg
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sharad_Garg ←
16:45:21 <azaroth> Tzviya: Don't necessarily agree. Sometimes need everything to do a comparison.
Tzviya Siegman: Don't necessarily agree. Sometimes need everything to do a comparison. ←
16:45:41 <azaroth> Bill: If it's a table, then given the ability to look at portions is useful. Not a complete solution
Bill Kasdorf: If it's a table, then given the ability to look at portions is useful. Not a complete solution ←
16:45:48 <azaroth> Markus: Where were we with alignment in columns
Markus Gylling: Where were we with alignment in columns ←
16:46:17 <azaroth> Ben: I'll clean up the language to correct hte language. Screenshots ... how to provide?
Ben Ko: I'll clean up the language to correct hte language. Screenshots ... how to provide? ←
16:46:26 <azaroth> Dave: I can put them in the doc if you email them to me
Dave Cramer: I can put them in the doc if you email them to me ←
16:46:34 <azaroth> ... next comment was can we have some illustrations
... next comment was can we have some illustrations ←
16:46:50 <azaroth> Markus: Sounds like we had unanimous agreement was requirements, not to mandate algorithms
Markus Gylling: Sounds like we had unanimous agreement was requirements, not to mandate algorithms ←
16:47:08 <astearns> q+ on algorithms
Alan Stearns: q+ on algorithms ←
16:47:13 <azaroth> Dave: Some sort of tricky example to align on character, describing these kind of arrangements
Dave Cramer: Some sort of tricky example to align on character, describing these kind of arrangements ←
16:47:16 <mgylling> ack astearns
Markus Gylling: ack astearns ←
16:47:16 <Zakim> astearns, you wanted to comment on algorithms
Zakim IRC Bot: astearns, you wanted to comment on algorithms ←
16:47:18 <azaroth> ... in scope for this doc
... in scope for this doc ←
16:47:47 <azaroth> Alan: Algorithm the computer has to go through seems out of scope. Manual algorithm for print production, those steps are very useful to describe
Scribe problem: the name 'Alan' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Alan Tam Alan Stearns . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Alan: Algorithm the computer has to go through seems out of scope. Manual algorithm for print production, those steps are very useful to describe ←
16:48:04 <azaroth> Dave: Yes, this is how we think about it, the concepts we apply to get the desired end result. Agree those are good
Dave Cramer: Yes, this is how we think about it, the concepts we apply to get the desired end result. Agree those are good ←
16:48:17 <azaroth> Markus: Dave, you also mentioned grids as a topic
Markus Gylling: Dave, you also mentioned grids as a topic ←
16:48:33 <dauwhe> http://alistapart.com
Dave Cramer: http://alistapart.com ←
16:48:34 <azaroth> Dave: Thanks to Alan for the text. Provided a lovely example of the problem
Dave Cramer: Thanks to Alan for the text. Provided a lovely example of the problem ←
16:49:11 <azaroth> ... Something I mentioned last week, the idea of the grid seems important, also trying to get at the underlying principles. Alignment goals that grids implement
... Something I mentioned last week, the idea of the grid seems important, also trying to get at the underlying principles. Alignment goals that grids implement ←
16:49:38 <azaroth> ... trying to get to a more fundamental aspect of the problem. Looking at the example there, what is supposed to align with what, that would make it look less horrible
... trying to get to a more fundamental aspect of the problem. Looking at the example there, what is supposed to align with what, that would make it look less horrible ←
16:50:09 <azaroth> ... at bottom, there's a section more from alistapart, 3 articles with varying structures so nothing aligns
... at bottom, there's a section more from alistapart, 3 articles with varying structures so nothing aligns ←
16:50:21 <azaroth> ... main text isn't on the same grid, varying numbers of lines. all over the place
... main text isn't on the same grid, varying numbers of lines. all over the place ←
16:50:45 <azaroth> Alan: One of the things I'm planning to do is put some screenshots together to show before and after, what controls you'd need to achieve the after effect
Scribe problem: the name 'Alan' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Alan Tam Alan Stearns . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Alan: One of the things I'm planning to do is put some screenshots together to show before and after, what controls you'd need to achieve the after effect ←
16:51:12 <azaroth> ... been considering for grids are theoretical, don't work on the tools. for ppl using baseline grids, they have some manual steps, would be good to get feedback for requirements
... been considering for grids are theoretical, only work on the tools. for ppl using baseline grids, they have some manual steps, would be good to get feedback for requirements ←
16:51:24 <astearns> s/don't work/only work/
16:51:42 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
Bill Kasdorf: q+ ←
16:51:43 <azaroth> Dave: Love to see some examples of grids in use. Can point out that grid enables this to work. Underlying design principles to codify
Dave Cramer: Love to see some examples of grids in use. Can point out that grid enables this to work. Underlying design principles to codify ←
16:51:55 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:51:59 <azaroth> ... what grids need to achieve
... what grids need to achieve ←
16:52:09 <Zakim> -fjh
Zakim IRC Bot: -fjh ←
16:52:17 <azaroth> Bill: Makes me think of related use case- ability to set a vertical marker that other things are aligned with
Bill Kasdorf: Makes me think of related use case- ability to set a vertical marker that other things are aligned with ←
16:52:28 <azaroth> ... not a pre existing grid, just an alignment point. On the list?
... not a pre existing grid, just an alignment point. On the list? ←
16:52:42 <azaroth> Dave: Applies to lots of things. Side by side text, side note.
Dave Cramer: Applies to lots of things. Side by side text, side note. ←
16:52:47 <azaroth> Bill: translations for example
Bill Kasdorf: translations for example ←
16:52:49 <azaroth> Dave: Yeah
Dave Cramer: Yeah ←
16:52:58 <azaroth> ... way to go is if you have examples, then send them along
... way to go is if you have examples, then send them along ←
16:53:07 <azaroth> Bill: Yes not a grid, just made me think of it
Bill Kasdorf: Yes not a grid, just made me think of it ←
16:53:17 <azaroth> Dave: Larger issue of alignment. How does this object relate to that object
Dave Cramer: Larger issue of alignment. How does this object relate to that object ←
16:53:39 <azaroth> ... whole subject has lots of diff manifestations. As many examples as possible to let us come up with what we need to do
... whole subject has lots of diff manifestations. As many examples as possible to let us come up with what we need to do ←
16:54:00 <azaroth> Markus: Bill, I thought you were going to talk about alignment in 2 page spread. points sometimes cross page boundaries.
Markus Gylling: Bill, I thought you were going to talk about alignment in 2 page spread. points sometimes cross page boundaries. ←
16:54:20 <azaroth> Bill: That's true. More universal than that. DOn't want people to focus on page based rendering, relevant in reflowable
Bill Kasdorf: That's true. More universal than that. DOn't want people to focus on page based rendering, relevant in reflowable ←
16:54:29 <azaroth> ... good question though, would the same mechanism work for both use cases
... good question though, would the same mechanism work for both use cases ←
16:54:40 <Luc> +1
Luc Audrain: +1 ←
16:54:48 <azaroth> Dave: Sent the list another big question on equation alignment on = signs
Dave Cramer: Sent the list another big question on equation alignment on = signs ←
16:54:53 <azaroth> ... even though unrelated html structure
... even though unrelated html structure ←
16:55:03 <liam> +1 alignment
16:55:05 <azaroth> ... one of the big, fundamental issues when laying out pages
... one of the big, fundamental issues when laying out pages ←
16:55:21 <azaroth> Markus: Need to decide what to do next week
Markus Gylling: Need to decide what to do next week ←
16:55:30 <azaroth> ... where do you see yourself going in terms of grids?
... where do you see yourself going in terms of grids? ←
16:55:46 <azaroth> Dave: Would like to get illustrations, examples in here. See where they go.
Dave Cramer: Would like to get illustrations, examples in here. See where they go. ←
16:56:04 <azaroth> ... can start writing up more on hyphenation. WOuld like to start collecting egs and screenshots
... can start writing up more on hyphenation. WOuld like to start collecting egs and screenshots ←
16:56:31 <azaroth> ... maybe go into a phase where actively working on a few parts with lots of input from people with what trying to achieve
... maybe go into a phase where actively working on a few parts with lots of input from people with what trying to achieve ←
16:56:38 <azaroth> Markus: Alan, does that work for you?
Markus Gylling: Alan, does that work for you? ←
16:56:43 <azaroth> Alan: Certainly
Scribe problem: the name 'Alan' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Alan Tam Alan Stearns . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Alan: Certainly ←
16:56:55 <mgylling> ack Luc
Markus Gylling: ack Luc ←
16:57:36 <azaroth> Markus: Great. For next week, we need another task force, unless you disagree Dave?
Markus Gylling: Great. For next week, we need another task force, unless you disagree Dave? ←
16:57:42 <azaroth> Dave: I need a break :)
Dave Cramer: I need a break :) ←
16:57:52 <azaroth> Markus: Tzviya, shall we move to your group?
Markus Gylling: Tzviya, shall we move to your group? ←
16:58:09 <azaroth> Tzviya: Don't have a lot pulled together, but could review what we have now
Tzviya Siegman: Don't have a lot pulled together, but could review what we have now ←
16:58:24 <azaroth> Markus: Still a bit fuzzy where the edges are, need to clarify where to go.
Markus Gylling: Still a bit fuzzy where the edges are, need to clarify where to go. ←
16:58:39 <azaroth> ... AOB?
... AOB? ←
16:58:53 <azaroth> Dave: Several of us will be at digital book world this week
Dave Cramer: Several of us will be at digital book world this week ←
16:59:13 <Zakim> -madi
Zakim IRC Bot: -madi ←
16:59:14 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
Zakim IRC Bot: -Bill_Kasdorf ←
16:59:14 <Zakim> -Liza
Zakim IRC Bot: -Liza ←
16:59:14 <TomDN> zakim, unmute me
Tom De Nies: zakim, unmute me ←
16:59:15 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should no longer be muted ←
16:59:16 <Zakim> -Tzviya
Zakim IRC Bot: -Tzviya ←
16:59:16 <Zakim> -dauwhe
Zakim IRC Bot: -dauwhe ←
16:59:17 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
16:59:18 <Zakim> -azaroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -azaroth ←
16:59:18 <Zakim> -Stearns
Zakim IRC Bot: -Stearns ←
16:59:19 <Zakim> -benjaminsko
Zakim IRC Bot: -benjaminsko ←
16:59:19 <Zakim> -Liam
Zakim IRC Bot: -Liam ←
16:59:21 <Zakim> -TomDN
Zakim IRC Bot: -TomDN ←
16:59:22 <Zakim> -Bert
Zakim IRC Bot: -Bert ←
16:59:23 <mgylling> regrets: Brady Duga, Vladimir Levantovsky, Laura Fowler, Jean Kaplansky
16:59:25 <Zakim> -laudrain
Zakim IRC Bot: -laudrain ←
16:59:26 <Zakim> -AWK
Scribe problem: the name 'AWK' does not match any of the 63 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alan Tam Alan Stearns Ben Ko Bert Bos Bill Kasdorf Brady Duga Casey Dougherty Daniel Schwabe Dave Cramer David Singer Dmitry Shkolnik Erik Mannens Frank Liu Frederick Hirsch George Kerscher George Walkley Gerardo Capiel Hajar Ghaem Sigarchian Ivan Herman Jean Kaplansky Jiphun Satapathy Jirka Kosek Jun Fujisawa Kenny Zhang Koji Ishii Laura Fowler Liam Quin Livio Mondini Liza Daly Luc Audrain Madi Solomon Marilyn Siderwicz Markku Hakkinen Markus Gylling Miel Vander Sande Mohamed ZERGAOUI Naitik Tyagi Paolo Ciccarese Peter Linss Phil Madans Pierre Danet Prashant Prashant Priyanka Malik Richard Bowles Richard Schwerdtfeger Robert Sanderson Robin Berjon Sharad Garg Somnath Chandra Suzanne Taylor Swaran Lata Thierry Michel Tim Clark Tom Burns Tom De Nies Tyng-Ruey Chuang Tzviya Siegman Vincent Gros Vlad Stirbu Vladimir Levantovsky Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -AWK ←
16:59:26 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
Thierry Michel: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:59:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/13-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/13-dpub-minutes.html tmichel ←
16:59:50 <Zakim> -tmichel
Zakim IRC Bot: -tmichel ←
16:59:52 <Zakim> -gcapiel
Zakim IRC Bot: -gcapiel ←
17:05:00 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, mgylling, in DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, mgylling, in DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM ←
17:05:02 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended ←
17:05:02 <Zakim> Attendees were Liza, dauwhe, azaroth, Tzviya, Ivan, Stearns, mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf, Bert, laudrain, benjaminsko, AWK, gcapiel, Sharad_Garg, TomDN, tmichel, fjh, Liam, madi
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Liza, dauwhe, azaroth, Tzviya, Ivan, Stearns, mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf, Bert, laudrain, benjaminsko, AWK, gcapiel, Sharad_Garg, TomDN, tmichel, fjh, Liam, madi ←
Formatted by CommonScribe