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16:04:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc ←
16:04:20 <Ralph> zakim, this will be rdfa
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Unknown Ralph: zakim, this will be rdfa ←
16:04:20 <Zakim> ok, Ralph, I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Ralph, I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM already started ←
16:04:24 <Ralph> zakim, who's on the phone?
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Unknown Ralph: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
16:04:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P15, Michael_Hausenblas
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P15, Michael_Hausenblas ←
16:04:28 <Zakim> +Ben
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ben ←
16:04:30 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, code? ←
16:04:30 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck ←
16:04:41 <Zakim> +Ralph
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ralph ←
16:04:49 <Ralph> Meeting: RDFa Task Force
16:04:52 <Ralph> Chair: Ben
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16:05:03 <Zakim> +markbirbeck
Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck ←
created using i/Agenda: http/scribenick: Ralph/
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(Scribe set to Unknown Ralph)
16:05:08 <Ralph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Nov/0040.html
16:05:15 <Ralph> zakim, ??p15 is Manuy
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zakim, ??p15 is Manuy ←
16:05:15 <Zakim> +Manuy; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Manuy; got it ←
16:05:23 <Ralph> zakim, Manuy is Manu
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zakim, Manuy is Manu ←
16:05:23 <Zakim> +Manu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Manu; got it ←
16:06:01 <Ralph> Regrets: Steven
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16:06:49 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/10/26-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2007-10-26
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-> http://www.w3.org/2007/10/26-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2007-10-26 ←
16:07:12 <Ralph> Topic: ISWC
16:07:28 <Ralph> Michael: lots of questions, especially "when will the spec be finished?!"
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Unknown Michael: lots of questions, especially "when will the spec be finished?!" ←
16:07:34 <Ralph> ... lots of discussion of open data
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... lots of discussion of open data ←
16:07:39 <Ralph> ... see Ivan's blog
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... see Ivan's blog ←
16:07:43 <benadida> --> http://ivanherman.wordpress.com/
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Unknown benadida: --> http://ivanherman.wordpress.com/ ←
16:07:51 <benadida> --> http://ivanherman.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/iswc2007-?-first-day/
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Unknown benadida: --> http://ivanherman.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/iswc2007-?-first-day/ ←
16:08:46 <Ralph> Topic: Action Review
16:09:05 <Ralph> Michael: I talked with Fabien for a while, especially about profile
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Unknown Michael: I talked with Fabien for a while, especially about profile ←
16:09:16 <Ralph> ... Fabien said he'd be happy to give his stuff to W3C
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... Fabien said he'd be happy to give his stuff to W3C ←
16:09:32 <Ralph> ... we already have the RDFa GRDDL profile URI assigned
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... we already have the RDFa GRDDL profile URI assigned ←
16:09:47 <Ralph> Ben: is there a licensing question for Fabien's work?
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Unknown Ben: is there a licensing question for Fabien's work? ←
16:09:53 <Ralph> Michael: not aware of one
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Unknown Michael: not aware of one ←
16:10:15 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C
ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C ←
16:11:06 <Ralph> Michael: there were two RDFa-based things shown at ISWC
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Unknown Michael: there were two RDFa-based things shown at ISWC ←
16:11:14 <Ralph> ... most people seemed to already know about RDFa
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... most people seemed to already know about RDFa ←
16:11:21 <Ralph> Topic: Action Review
16:11:34 <Ralph> [WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Steven propose an adaptation of the CSS whitespace rules to incorporate into the Syntax document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
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[WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Steven propose an adaptation of the CSS whitespace rules to incorporate into the Syntax document [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/26-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06] ←
16:11:49 <Ralph> Ben: given consensus forming around Mark's proposal on the mailing list I think we can withdraw this
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Unknown Ben: given consensus forming around Mark's proposal on the mailing list I think we can withdraw this ←
16:12:01 <Ralph> [DONE] Ben enter Ivan's concerns in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0173.html as issues in tracker [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
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[DONE] Ben enter Ivan's concerns in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0173.html as issues in tracker [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-08] ←
16:12:09 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06] ←
16:12:11 <Ralph> -- continues
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-- continues ←
16:12:19 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to set up a proper scribe schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
ACTION: Ben to set up a proper scribe schedule [recorded in ACTION-01]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-01] ←
16:12:20 <Ralph> -- continues
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-- continues ←
16:12:30 <Ralph> ACTION: Michael and Manu investigate with Ivan the implementation of the test case validator proposal on w3.org [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
ACTION: Michael and Manu investigate with Ivan the implementation of the test case validator proposal on w3.org [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07] ←
16:12:34 <Ralph> -- done
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-- done ←
16:12:46 <Ralph> Manu: it's hosted outside of W3C right now
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Unknown Manu: it's hosted outside of W3C right now ←
16:13:21 <Ralph> ... we'll wait until we've published a public draft before moving it to W3C
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... we'll wait until we've published a public draft before moving it to W3C ←
16:13:33 <Ralph> ... easier to fix bugs on my site before moving it to W3C
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... easier to fix bugs on my site before moving it to W3C ←
16:14:12 <Ralph> Ralph: would a proxy URI work given your implementation?
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Unknown Ralph: would a proxy URI work given your implementation? ←
16:14:20 <Ralph> Manu: not sure; there's a lot of javascript
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Unknown Manu: not sure; there's a lot of javascript ←
16:14:27 <Ralph> ... there's a redirect right now
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... there's a redirect right now ←
16:15:30 <Ralph> ... I'll find the URI after this call
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... I'll find the URI after this call ←
16:15:40 <Ralph> ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06] ←
16:15:42 <Ralph> -- continue
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-- continue ←
16:18:51 <Ralph> Topic: follow-your-nose
16:18:54 <Ralph> Ralph: have we decided this?
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Unknown Ralph: have we decided this? ←
16:19:06 <Ralph> Ben: yes, we've agreed that @profile is permitted but not required
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Unknown Ben: yes, we've agreed that @profile is permitted but not required ←
16:19:15 <Ralph> Ralph: have we documented this adequately?
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Unknown Ralph: have we documented this adequately? ←
16:19:25 <Ralph> Mark: no, I've not finished the words in the syntax doc
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Unknown Mark: no, I've not finished the words in the syntax doc ←
16:20:03 <Ralph> Michael: Shane suggested a way to anchor the syntax doc so it can be referenced from the test suite
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Unknown Michael: Shane suggested a way to anchor the syntax doc so it can be referenced from the test suite ←
16:20:41 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/28 issue 28 follow-your-nose
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-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/28 ISSUE-28 follow-your-nose ←
16:21:00 <Ralph> "2007-11-15: agreement from telecon that we have a profile, we encourage its use where possible, but we don't require it. This needs to be stated clearly in the syntax (it's not currently.)"
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"2007-11-15: agreement from telecon that we have a profile, we encourage its use where possible, but we don't require it. This needs to be stated clearly in the syntax (it's not currently.)" ←
16:21:24 <Ralph> Topic: whitespace canonicalization
16:22:02 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Nov/0029.html "[Fwd: ISSUE-63: White-Space Canonicalization of XML Literals]" [Ben 2007-11-08]
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-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Nov/0029.html "[Fwd: ISSUE-63: White-Space Canonicalization of XML Literals]" [Ben 2007-11-08] ←
16:22:13 <Ralph> Ben: I think we agreed to use XPath normalized space rules
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Unknown Ben: I think we agreed to use XPath normalized space rules ←
16:22:24 <Ralph> ... to canonicalize non-XML literals
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... to canonicalize non-XML literals ←
16:22:46 <Ralph> ... 3 pieces: plain literals - no data type declared or datatype declared as empty
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... 3 pieces: plain literals - no data type declared or datatype declared as empty ←
16:22:59 <Ralph> ... for plain literals, use XPath normalized space as Mark proposed
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... for plain literals, use XPath normalized space as Mark proposed ←
16:23:15 <Ralph> Michael: Fabien would like us to base on XPath too
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Unknown Michael: Fabien would like us to base on XPath too ←
16:23:27 <Ralph> Ben: any objections?
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Unknown Ben: any objections? ←
16:23:29 <Ralph> (none)
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(none) ←
16:23:49 <Ralph> Ben: PROPOSE plain literals normalized using XPath normalized space
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Unknown Ben: PROPOSE plain literals normalized using XPath normalized space ←
16:24:00 <mhausenblas> +1
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Unknown mhausenblas: +1 ←
16:24:17 <Ralph> RESOLVED plain literals are normalized using XPath normalized-space
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RESOLVED plain literals are normalized using XPath normalized-space ←
16:24:58 <Ralph> Michael: technically this means remove leading and trailing whitespace and collapse consecutive whitespace to a single whitespace
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Unknown Michael: technically this means remove leading and trailing whitespace and collapse consecutive whitespace to a single whitespace ←
16:25:32 <Ralph> Ben: parts 2 & 3 - typed non-XML literals and XMLLiterals
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Unknown Ben: parts 2 & 3 - typed non-XML literals and XMLLiterals ←
16:25:47 <Ralph> ... for non-XML literals I believe we should do the same thing [as plain literal]
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... for non-XML literals I believe we should do the same thing [as plain literal] ←
16:26:05 <Ralph> Manu: are there any XSD datatypes that require spaces?
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Unknown Manu: are there any XSD datatypes that require spaces? ←
16:26:27 <Ralph> ... if not, the argument in favor of using XPath normalized-space for this too is stronger
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... if not, the argument in favor of using XPath normalized-space for this too is stronger ←
16:26:39 <Ralph> Ben: I'm not aware of any; they'd be hard to render in HTML
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Unknown Ben: I'm not aware of any; they'd be hard to render in HTML ←
16:26:51 <Ralph> ... what do we do with value of @content ?
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... what do we do with value of @content ? ←
16:27:08 <Ralph> Mark: I'm drafting a reply to the mail
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Unknown Mark: I'm drafting a reply to the mail ←
16:27:16 <Ralph> ... I'm not sure what we should do with all the cases
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... I'm not sure what we should do with all the cases ←
16:27:28 <Ralph> ... the more I've looked into this, the more awkward it seems to be getting
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... the more I've looked into this, the more awkward it seems to be getting ←
16:27:43 <Ralph> ... mainly the relationship to the browser
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... mainly the relationship to the browser ←
16:27:57 <Ralph> ... the normal behaviour with XML appears to be to remove white space even in an attribute
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... the normal behaviour with XML appears to be to remove white space even in an attribute ←
16:28:19 <Ralph> Manu: no, xs:normalize-string tells the XML process to remove whitespace and the default is to preserve whitespace
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Unknown Manu: no, xs:normalize-string tells the XML process to remove whitespace and the default is to preserve whitespace ←
16:28:35 <Ralph> Ben: let's close the non-XML cases first
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Unknown Ben: let's close the non-XML cases first ←
16:28:39 <benadida> <span content=" foo bar " />
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Unknown benadida: <span content=" foo bar " /> ←
16:29:07 <Ralph> Ben: are spaces in @content preserved? I suspect so, but am not sure
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Unknown Ben: are spaces in @content preserved? I suspect so, but am not sure ←
16:29:08 <mhausenblas> -> http://xml.silmaril.ie/authors/whitespace/
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Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://xml.silmaril.ie/authors/whitespace/ ←
16:30:05 <Ralph> Mark: we're limited in our flexibility because of what browsers actually do
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Unknown Mark: we're limited in our flexibility because of what browsers actually do ←
16:30:36 <Ralph> ... if there are browsers that return "foo bar" in that example, or browsers that remove newlines, we'd have to force normalization
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... if there are browsers that return "foo bar" in that example, or browsers that remove newlines, we'd have to force normalization ←
16:30:56 <Ralph> Ben: it's clear to me that we want to normalize whatever the user would actually see
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Unknown Ben: it's clear to me that we want to normalize whatever the user would actually see ←
16:31:06 <Ralph> ... not so clear what should happen for @content
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... not so clear what should happen for @content ←
16:31:19 <Ralph> Mark: the rendering of content with whitespace is already clearly defined
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Unknown Mark: the rendering of content with whitespace is already clearly defined ←
16:31:30 <Ralph> ... consecutive whitespace is collapsed
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... consecutive whitespace is collapsed ←
16:31:34 <mhausenblas> Support Mark: -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xml11-20060816/#sec-white-space XML spec
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Unknown mhausenblas: Support Mark: -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xml11-20060816/#sec-white-space XML spec ←
16:31:53 <Ralph> ... question is what the DOM level returns in a query
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... question is what the DOM level returns in a query ←
16:32:10 <Ralph> Ben: I think element content and attribute values are handled differently by browsers
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Unknown Ben: I think element content and attribute values are handled differently by browsers ←
16:32:23 <Ralph> ... e.g. Firefox appears to preserve all whitespace in attribute value
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... e.g. Firefox appears to preserve all whitespace in attribute value ←
16:33:00 <Ralph> ... seems to support the model that data visible to user is normalized and when the author wants to override that, use @content
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... seems to support the model that data visible to user is normalized and when the author wants to override that, use @content ←
16:33:22 <Ralph> Mark: seems that could work
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Unknown Mark: seems that could work ←
16:33:27 <Ralph> Manu: sounds like a good approach
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Unknown Manu: sounds like a good approach ←
16:33:33 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-xhtml-modularization-20010410/conformance.html#s_conform_user_agent XHTML spec
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Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-xhtml-modularization-20010410/conformance.html#s_conform_user_agent XHTML spec ←
16:34:09 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben check that browsers do preserve whitespace in attribute values
ACTION: Ben check that browsers do preserve whitespace in attribute values ←
16:34:23 <Ralph> ACTION: Michael check that HTML spec says to preserve whitespace in attribute values
ACTION: Michael check that HTML spec says to preserve whitespace in attribute values ←
16:34:59 <Ralph> Ben: assuming that element content is normalized and attribute values preserve whitespace,
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Unknown Ben: assuming that element content is normalized and attribute values preserve whitespace, ←
16:35:36 <benadida> normalize: <span property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:date"> 2007-11-15 </span>
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Unknown normalize: <span property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:date"> 2007-11-15 </span> [ Scribe Assist by Unknown benadida ] ←
16:36:04 <benadida> don't normalize: <span property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:date" content=" 2007-11-15 " />
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Unknown benadida: don't normalize: <span property="dc:date" datatype="xsd:date" content=" 2007-11-15 " /> ←
16:37:02 <Ralph> ... does it make sense to normalize element content and not normalize @content even when datatype is specified?
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... does it make sense to normalize element content and not normalize @content even when datatype is specified? ←
16:37:09 <Ralph> Manu: yep, makes sense
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Unknown Manu: yep, makes sense ←
16:37:44 <Ralph> Mark: in XML spec, there's full normalization of element content; newlines removed, whitespace collapsed
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Unknown Mark: in XML spec, there's full normalization of element content; newlines removed, whitespace collapsed ←
16:37:59 <Ralph> ... then there's another kind of normalization that replaces newlines with a single whitespace
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... then there's another kind of normalization that replaces newlines with a single whitespace ←
16:38:33 <Ralph> ... if there were a newline in @content, that would have become a single space
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... if there were a newline in @content, that would have become a single space ←
16:38:45 <markbirbeck> http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-xml-20001006#AVNormalize
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Unknown markbirbeck: http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-xml-20001006#AVNormalize ←
16:38:49 <Ralph> ... so it's not just leaving attribute value untouched
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... so it's not just leaving attribute value untouched ←
16:39:26 <Ralph> Ben: Firefox appears to remove newline from attribute value
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Unknown Ben: Firefox appears to remove newline from attribute value ←
16:40:15 <markbirbeck> http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-xhtml-modularization-20010410/conformance.html#s_conform_user_agent
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Unknown markbirbeck: http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-xhtml-modularization-20010410/conformance.html#s_conform_user_agent ←
16:41:22 <Ralph> Ben: on further testing, Firefox strips leading newline but preserves non-leading newlines
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Unknown Ben: on further testing, Firefox strips leading newline but preserves non-leading newlines ←
16:41:43 <Ralph> ... so we need to both understand the [XML] spec and investigate what browsers are actually doing
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... so we need to both understand the [XML] spec and investigate what browsers are actually doing ←
16:41:51 <Ralph> ... hopefully the browsers are doing something sensible
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... hopefully the browsers are doing something sensible ←
16:42:06 <Ralph> Michael: and hopefully the browsers behave consistently
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Unknown Michael: and hopefully the browsers behave consistently ←
16:42:31 <Ralph> Mark: we could add our own rules, such as requiring leading newlines to be stripped
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Unknown Mark: we could add our own rules, such as requiring leading newlines to be stripped ←
16:43:06 <Ralph> Ben: for XMLLiterals, I'd like us to preserve them if we can
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Unknown Ben: for XMLLiterals, I'd like us to preserve them if we can ←
16:43:16 <Ralph> ... but if browsers do canonicalize, I think we have to allow it
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... but if browsers do canonicalize, I think we have to allow it ←
16:43:36 <Ralph> ... I don't expect canonicalization to change how the literal is rendered
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... I don't expect canonicalization to change how the literal is rendered ←
16:44:23 <Ralph> Ben: conclusion; we'll normalize plain literals and element content but not normalize @content value except perhaps for special rule about leading newlines depending on what browsers do
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Unknown Ben: conclusion; we'll normalize plain literals and element content but not normalize @content value except perhaps for special rule about leading newlines depending on what browsers do ←
16:44:57 <Ralph> ... I need to test both in HTML and XHTML mode
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... I need to test both in HTML and XHTML mode ←
16:45:50 <Ralph> Topic: @instanceof
16:46:26 <Ralph> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Nov/0030.html "chaining-friendly rules for @instanceof" [Ben 2007-11-08]
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-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Nov/0030.html "chaining-friendly rules for @instanceof" [Ben 2007-11-08] ←
16:47:06 <Ralph> Mark: happy with the list discussion
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Unknown Mark: happy with the list discussion ←
16:47:12 <Ralph> ... I'm more clear now on where the problems lie
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... I'm more clear now on where the problems lie ←
16:47:47 <Ralph> ... in most areas Ben's proposal and mine appear to be in agreement
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... in most areas Ben's proposal and mine appear to be in agreement ←
16:48:02 <Ralph> ... my main problem with Ben's @instanceof rule is that things change meaning as you add or remove markup
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... my main problem with Ben's @instanceof rule is that things change meaning as you add or remove markup ←
16:48:56 <Ralph> ... I feel strongly enough about the flipping of meaning that I'd rather remove @instanceof for now in the interest of time
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... I feel strongly enough about the flipping of meaning that I'd rather remove @instanceof for now in the interest of time ←
16:49:41 <Ralph> ... reinvention of chaining shows it is a useful concept
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... reinvention of chaining shows it is a useful concept ←
16:50:05 <Ralph> ... I think we can tweak things to work
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... I think we can tweak things to work ←
16:50:20 <Ralph> ... and easier than trying to make @instanceof sometimes apply to subject and sometimes to object
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... and easier than trying to make @instanceof sometimes apply to subject and sometimes to object ←
16:50:44 <Ralph> ... I'd like to say that adding predicates always behaves consistently
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... I'd like to say that adding predicates always behaves consistently ←
16:51:01 <Ralph> ... once a subject is declared, predicates are added to it in a consistent way
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... once a subject is declared, predicates are added to it in a consistent way ←
16:51:13 <Ralph> ... people need time to look through the long emails
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... people need time to look through the long emails ←
16:52:04 <Ralph> Ben: does this really only concern @instanceof? in email Mark described chaining rules that appear to interpret some markup differently
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Unknown Ben: does this really only concern @instanceof? in email Mark described chaining rules that appear to interpret some markup differently ←
16:52:32 <Ralph> Mark: I couldn't see any differences in the treatment of chaining if we drop @instanceof except one case where Ben has an additional rule
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Unknown Mark: I couldn't see any differences in the treatment of chaining if we drop @instanceof except one case where I have an additional rule ←
16:52:56 <Ralph> ... the general idea of chaining is that there's a subject and predicate and the object can become the subject of further predicates
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... the general idea of chaining is that there's a subject and predicate and the object can become the subject of further predicates ←
16:53:02 <benadida> <div rel="foaf:knows"> <span about="#ivan" property="foaf:name">Ivan</span> </div>
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Unknown benadida: <div rel="foaf:knows"> <span about="#ivan" property="foaf:name">Ivan</span> </div> ←
16:53:23 <Ralph> ... the one rule I've added is @rel without an object can take object from @about in a child element
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... the one rule I've added is @rel without an object can take object from @about in a child element ←
16:53:29 <Ralph> s/where Ben has/where I have/
16:53:48 <Ralph> Ben: in my example above, I believe the current parsing rules do not cause chaining
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Unknown Ben: in my example above, I believe the current parsing rules do not cause chaining ←
16:53:58 <Ralph> ... in Mark's proposal this example would cause chaining
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... in Mark's proposal this example would cause chaining ←
16:54:49 <Ralph> Mark: right.
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Unknown Mark: right. ←
16:55:41 <Ralph> Ben: if we accept this model of chaining but keep @instanceof, then are there use cases we can't express?
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Unknown Ben: if we accept this model of chaining but keep @instanceof, then are there use cases we can't express? ←
16:55:45 <Ralph> Mark: I don't think so
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Unknown Mark: I don't think so ←
16:56:48 <Ralph> Ben: I think that having an element pick up the object from a child is core to solving some use cases
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Unknown Ben: I think that having an element pick up the object from a child is core to solving some use cases ←
16:57:04 <markbirbeck> <div rel="foaf:knows"> <span property="foaf:name">Ivan</span> </div>
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Unknown markbirbeck: <div rel="foaf:knows"> <span property="foaf:name">Ivan</span> </div> ←
16:57:26 <benadida> <> foaf:knows [foaf:name "Ivan"] .
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Unknown benadida: <> foaf:knows [foaf:name "Ivan"] . ←
16:58:20 <Ralph> Mark: in my model, @instanceof behaves no differently from any other predicate
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Unknown Mark: in my model, @instanceof behaves no differently from any other predicate ←
16:58:33 <markbirbeck> <div rel="foaf:knows"> <span property="foaf:name" instanceof="foaf:Person">Ivan</span> </div>
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Unknown markbirbeck: <div rel="foaf:knows"> <span property="foaf:name" instanceof="foaf:Person">Ivan</span> </div> ←
16:59:10 <Ralph> Ben: the way I interpret Manu's rules, it seems there is no chaining
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Unknown Ben: the way I interpret Manu's rules, it seems there is no chaining ←
16:59:16 <markbirbeck> <> foaf:knows [foaf:name "Ivan"; rdf:type foaf:Person] .
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Unknown markbirbeck: <> foaf:knows [foaf:name "Ivan"; rdf:type foaf:Person] . ←
16:59:21 <Ralph> ... the foaf:knows would be left hanging
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... the foaf:knows would be left hanging ←
16:59:25 <Ralph> Manu: that's not what I meant
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Unknown Manu: that's not what I meant ←
16:59:35 <Ralph> ... I meant what I think Mark is proposing
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... I meant what I think Mark is proposing ←
16:59:56 <Ralph> ... I don't think there's a difference between what Mark is saying and what I was trying to say
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... I don't think there's a difference between what Mark is saying and what I was trying to say ←
17:01:04 <Ralph> Ben: I'm worried about some inconsistencies
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Unknown Ben: I'm worried about some inconsistencies ←
17:01:19 <Zakim> -Ralph
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Zakim IRC Bot: -Ralph ←
17:02:51 <mhausenblas> ScribeNick: mhausenblas
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(Scribe set to Unknown mhausenblas)
17:02:57 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
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RRSAgent, draft minutes ←
17:02:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←
17:03:23 <mhausenblas> Ben: Other issues?
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Unknown Ben: Other issues? ←
17:03:45 <mhausenblas> (none)
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(none) ←
17:03:55 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
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RRSAgent, make logs public ←
17:07:25 <mhausenblas> Ben: Will send out some examples - TF members will play mechanical-turk-parser
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Unknown Ben: Will send out some examples - TF members will play mechanical-turk-parser ←
17:07:52 <markbirbeck> http://newsbiscuit.com/article/disillusioned-mr-google-resigns-199
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Unknown markbirbeck: http://newsbiscuit.com/article/disillusioned-mr-google-resigns-199 ←
17:08:11 <markbirbeck> On being a mechanical turk :)
Scribe problem: the name 'markbirbeck' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'markbirbeck' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown markbirbeck: On being a mechanical turk :) ←
17:08:25 <msporny> :)
Scribe problem: the name 'msporny' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'msporny' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown msporny: :) ←
17:09:05 <mhausenblas> Michael: Regarding TC we need to get the one which are on-hold either approved or get rid of it
Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Michael' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Michael: Regarding TC we need to get the one which are on-hold either approved or get rid of it ←
17:09:50 <mhausenblas> Ben: We are on good way to Last Call - let's keep on the good work!
Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ben' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Ben: We are on good way to Last Call - let's keep on the good work! ←
17:10:07 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
RRSAgent, draft minutes ←
17:10:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←
17:10:33 <Zakim> -Manu
Scribe problem: the name 'Manu' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -Manu ←
17:10:35 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
Scribe problem: the name 'markbirbeck' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck ←
17:10:36 <Zakim> -Michael_Hausenblas
Scribe problem: the name 'Michael_Hausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -Michael_Hausenblas ←
17:10:36 <Zakim> -Ben
Scribe problem: the name 'Ben' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ben ←
17:10:37 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended ←
17:10:38 <Zakim> Attendees were Michael_Hausenblas, Ben, Ralph, markbirbeck, Manu
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Michael_Hausenblas, Ben, Ralph, markbirbeck, Manu ←
17:10:54 <mhausenblas> Zakim, list attendees
Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim, list attendees ←
17:10:54 <Zakim> sorry, mhausenblas, I don't know what conference this is
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, mhausenblas, I don't know what conference this is ←
17:11:03 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
RRSAgent, draft minutes ←
17:11:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas ←
17:12:01 <mhausenblas> zakim, bye
Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
zakim, bye ←
17:12:07 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, bye
Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'mhausenblas' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
rrsagent, bye ←
17:12:07 <RRSAgent> I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-actions.rdf : ←
17:12:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [1]
ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [1] ←
17:12:07 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc#T16-10-15
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc#T16-10-15 ←
17:12:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [2]
ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06] [2] ←
17:12:07 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc#T16-12-09
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc#T16-12-09 ←
17:12:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to set up a proper scribe schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [3]
ACTION: Ben to set up a proper scribe schedule [recorded in ACTION-01]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-01] [3] ←
17:12:07 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc#T16-12-19
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc#T16-12-19 ←
17:12:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael and Manu investigate with Ivan the implementation of the test case validator proposal on w3.org [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [4]
ACTION: Michael and Manu investigate with Ivan the implementation of the test case validator proposal on w3.org [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2007/10/18-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07] [4] ←
17:12:07 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc#T16-12-30
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc#T16-12-30 ←
17:12:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [5]
ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06] [5] ←
17:12:07 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc#T16-15-40
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc#T16-15-40 ←
17:12:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben check that browsers do preserve whitespace in attribute values [6]
ACTION: Ben check that browsers do preserve whitespace in attribute values [6] ←
17:12:07 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc#T16-34-09
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc#T16-34-09 ←
17:12:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael check that HTML spec says to preserve whitespace in attribute values [7]
ACTION: Michael check that HTML spec says to preserve whitespace in attribute values [7] ←
17:12:07 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc#T16-34-23
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc#T16-34-23 ←
19:44:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc
(No events recorded for 152 minutes)
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-irc ←
19:45:16 <Ralph> i/Agenda: http/scribenick: Ralph/
19:45:37 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Ralph: rrsagent, please draft minutes ←
19:45:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html Ralph ←
19:45:41 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Ralph: rrsagent, bye ←
19:45:48 <Ralph> rrsagent, please make record public
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Ralph: rrsagent, please make record public ←
19:45:49 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Ralph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Ralph: rrsagent, bye ←
19:45:49 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
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