Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

Minutes of 16 December 2013

Present
Ivan Herman, Markus Gylling, Liza Daly, Bill Kasdorf, Liam Quin, Bert Bos, Frederick Hirsch, Suzanne Taylor, Ben Ko, Alan Stearns, Laura Fowler, Robert Sanderson, Dmitry Shkolnik, Dave Cramer, Peter Linss, Gerardo Capiel
Guests
Olaf Drümmer (Callas Software GmbH)
Regrets
Vladimir Levantovsky, Tom De Nies, Phil Madans, Richard Schwerdtfeger, Thierry Michel, Tzviya Siegman, George Walkley, Pierre Danet, Luc Audrain, Vincent Gros, Brady Duga
Scribe
Liza Daly
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics
15:39:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/12/16-dpub-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/12/16-dpub-irc

15:40:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public

<ivan> Present: ivan, mgylling, lizadaly, Bill_Kasdorf, Liam, Bert, fjh, Suzanne_Taylor, benjaminsko, Stearns, Laura_Fowler, azaroth, dshkolnik, dauwhe, plinss, gcapiel
15:40:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be dpub

15:40:03 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 20 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 20 minutes

15:40:04 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:40:04 <trackbot> Date: 16 December 2013
15:57:18 <Zakim> SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 17 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM has now started

15:57:25 <Zakim> +??P50

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P50

15:57:34 <mgylling> trackbot, start telcon

Markus Gylling: trackbot, start telcon

15:57:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public

15:57:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be dpub

15:57:38 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot, I see SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM already started

15:57:39 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:57:39 <trackbot> Date: 16 December 2013
15:57:52 <mgylling> zakim, ??P50 is mgylling

Markus Gylling: zakim, ??P50 is mgylling

15:57:52 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +mgylling; got it

15:58:16 <mgylling> regrets: Vladimir Levantovsky, Tom De Nies, Phil Madans, Rich Schwerdtfeger, Thierry Michel, Tzviya Siegman, George Walkley, Pierre Danet, Luc Audrain, Vincent Gros
15:58:48 <ivan> zakim, code?

Ivan Herman: zakim, code?

15:58:48 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan

15:59:12 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

15:59:16 <Zakim> + +1.503.614.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.503.614.aaaa

15:59:30 <Zakim> + +1.505.665.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.505.665.aabb

15:59:41 <Zakim> +Liza

Zakim IRC Bot: +Liza

15:59:43 <azaroth> Zakim, aabb is azaroth

Robert Sanderson: Zakim, aabb is azaroth

15:59:43 <Zakim> +azaroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +azaroth; got it

15:59:47 <Zakim> +Stearns

Zakim IRC Bot: +Stearns

15:59:48 <Zakim> +dauwhe

Zakim IRC Bot: +dauwhe

16:00:01 <ivan> zakim, aaaa is Sharad

Ivan Herman: zakim, aaaa is Sharad

16:00:02 <Zakim> +Sharad; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sharad; got it

16:00:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:00:10 <fjh> zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Frederick Hirsch: zakim, [IPcaller] is me

16:00:10 <Zakim> +fjh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +fjh; got it

16:00:51 <Zakim> +??P78

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P78

16:01:08 <mgylling> regrets: Vladimir Levantovsky, Tom De Nies, Phil Madans, Rich Schwerdtfeger, Thierry Michel, Tzviya Siegman, George Walkley, Pierre Danet, Luc Audrain, Vincent Gros, Brady Duga
16:01:08 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf

Zakim IRC Bot: +Bill_Kasdorf

16:01:13 <Zakim> + +1.408.431.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.408.431.aacc

16:01:21 <gcapiel> Zakim, ??P78 is me

Gerardo Capiel: Zakim, ??P78 is me

16:01:21 <Zakim> +gcapiel; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gcapiel; got it

16:01:24 <Zakim> +plinss

Zakim IRC Bot: +plinss

16:01:40 <Zakim> +Suzanne_Taylor

Zakim IRC Bot: +Suzanne_Taylor

16:02:00 <mgylling> zakim, who is here?

Markus Gylling: zakim, who is here?

16:02:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see mgylling, Ivan, Sharad, azaroth, Liza, Stearns, dauwhe, fjh, gcapiel, Bill_Kasdorf, +1.408.431.aacc, plinss, Suzanne_Taylor

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see mgylling, Ivan, Sharad, azaroth, Liza, Stearns, dauwhe, fjh, gcapiel, Bill_Kasdorf, +1.408.431.aacc, plinss, Suzanne_Taylor

16:02:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see Suzanne, lizadaly, Bill_Kasdorf, gcapiel, dshkolnik, Sharad, fjh, azaroth, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, Bert, dauwhe, liam, astearns, trackbot, plinss

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Suzanne, lizadaly, Bill_Kasdorf, gcapiel, dshkolnik, Sharad, fjh, azaroth, mgylling, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, Bert, dauwhe, liam, astearns, trackbot, plinss

16:02:19 <astearns> zakim, aacc is dshkolnik

Alan Stearns: zakim, aacc is dshkolnik

16:02:19 <Zakim> +dshkolnik; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dshkolnik; got it

16:02:39 <Zakim> +JeanKaplansky

Zakim IRC Bot: +JeanKaplansky

16:02:56 <Zakim> +Liam

Zakim IRC Bot: +Liam

16:03:21 <Zakim> +Laura_Fowler

Zakim IRC Bot: +Laura_Fowler

16:03:46 <Zakim> + +49.305.770.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.305.770.aadd

16:03:49 <mgylling> scribe: lizadaly

(Scribe set to Liza Daly)

16:04:44 <lizadaly> (Do I scribe here or in separate notes?)

(Do I scribe here or in separate notes?)

16:04:54 <azaroth> Here would be great, thanks Liza

Robert Sanderson: Here would be great, thanks Liza

16:05:01 <lizadaly> You bet

You bet

16:05:31 <azaroth> Zakim, aadd is olaf_druemmer

Robert Sanderson: Zakim, aadd is olaf_druemmer

16:05:31 <Zakim> +olaf_druemmer; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +olaf_druemmer; got it

16:05:38 <lizadaly> Markus: 2nd week where we are trying theme-based called; today Annotations is up

Markus Gylling: 2nd week where we are trying theme-based called; today Annotations is up

16:06:07 <Zakim> +Bert

Zakim IRC Bot: +Bert

16:06:11 <lizadaly> First, approve previous minutes; objections to approval for last week's minutes? No; minutes are approved

First, approve previous minutes; objections to approval for last week's minutes? No; minutes are approved

16:06:18 <lizadaly> When should we meet again after Christmas?

When should we meet again after Christmas?

16:06:39 <lizadaly> Monday 6th or Monday the 13th?

Monday 6th or Monday the 13th?

16:06:48 <dshkolnik> 6th is fine here

Dmitry Shkolnik: 6th is fine here

16:06:53 <azaroth> 6th is fine for me

Robert Sanderson: 6th is fine for me

16:06:56 <gcapiel> 1/13 is better, but 1/6 works

Gerardo Capiel: 1/13 is better, but 1/6 works

16:07:09 <lizadaly> Deadline for CSS Shapes notes is the 7th

Deadline for CSS Shapes notes is the 7th

16:07:30 <lizadaly> It is so duly noted that the next meeting will be the 6th of January

It is so duly noted that the next meeting will be the 6th of January

16:07:47 <lizadaly> Theme for the 6th of January?

Theme for the 6th of January?

16:08:00 <lizadaly> (TBD after discussion)

(TBD after discussion)

16:08:20 <lizadaly> Other discussion: Ivan will look into the mailing list issue raised by Tony

Other discussion: Ivan will look into the mailing list issue raised by Tony

16:08:32 <lizadaly> ...but he believes it may be fine now

...but he believes it may be fine now

16:08:50 <lizadaly> Others are encouraged to raise any additional issues and he will follow up with the systems staff

Others are encouraged to raise any additional issues and he will follow up with the systems staff

16:08:59 <ivan> Topic: Annotations

1. Annotations

16:08:59 <lizadaly> ANNOTATIONS


16:09:11 <olaf_druemmer> My name is Olaf Drümmer, I am CEO of callas software GmbH and axaio software GmbH in Berlin, Germany. I am also the chairman of teh PDF Association. My interest is around accessibility, MathML, STEM, and digital publishing in genera

Olaf Drümmer: My name is Olaf Drümmer, I am CEO of callas software GmbH and axaio software GmbH in Berlin, Germany. I am also the chairman of teh PDF Association. My interest is around accessibility, MathML, STEM, and digital publishing in general.

16:09:19 <lizadaly> Markus suggests we provide some context for this discussion

Markus suggests we provide some context for this discussion

16:09:30 <lizadaly> "Who is doing what?"

"Who is doing what?"

16:09:57 <lizadaly> Markus: There are 3 entities engaged in this work

Markus Gylling: There are 3 entities engaged in this work

16:10:04 <lizadaly> 1. Open Annotation Community Group

1. Open Annotation Community Group

16:10:35 <lizadaly> Markus: 2. The IDPF, adapting the Open Annotations specification for use with EPUB

Markus Gylling: 2. The IDPF, adapting the Open Annotations specification for use with EPUB

16:10:40 <ivan> Guest: Olaf (olaf_druemmer) Drümmer, Callas Software GmbH
16:10:56 <lizadaly> Markus: They are pointing to it and developing some specializations for it

Markus Gylling: They are pointing to it and developing some specializations for it

16:11:15 <lizadaly> Markus: 3. This interest group, at this point collecting use cases for annotations as it relates to digital publishing

Markus Gylling: 3. This interest group, at this point collecting use cases for annotations as it relates to digital publishing

16:11:42 <lizadaly> Markus: The use case corpus as developed here has a wider scope than the original OA effort as it takes into account new cases discovered in the collaboration with the IDPF

Markus Gylling: The use case corpus as developed here has a wider scope than the original OA effort as it takes into account new cases discovered in the collaboration with the IDPF

16:11:56 <lizadaly> Azaroth: As an interest group, our charter doesn't allow us to _create_ specifications

Robert Sanderson: As an interest group, our charter doesn't allow us to _create_ specifications

16:12:22 <lizadaly> Markus: One of the interesting things about this group is that a new W3C Working Group could use our use cases as inputs to their process

Markus Gylling: One of the interesting things about this group is that a new W3C Working Group could use our use cases as inputs to their process

16:12:41 <lizadaly> Markus: The use cases developing here are partly informing the IDPF work and possibly future OA WGs

Markus Gylling: The use cases developing here are partly informing the IDPF work and possibly future OA WGs

16:12:52 <lizadaly> Markus: Did that help set context?

Markus Gylling: Did that help set context?

16:13:04 <lizadaly> Ivan: Yes but the WG discussion is premature

Ivan Herman: Yes but the WG discussion is premature

16:13:12 <lizadaly> Markus: Indeed

Markus Gylling: Indeed

16:13:47 <lizadaly> Markus: Another context: in the ebook space, there is no standard interoperable annotations spec; each reading system or platform uses their own

Markus Gylling: Another context: in the ebook space, there is no standard interoperable annotations spec; each reading system or platform uses their own

16:14:16 <lizadaly> Markus: There is a lot of lock-in, and this is a problem in trade publishing but even more so in the educational sector where annotations are used more proactively

Markus Gylling: There is a lot of lock-in, and this is a problem in trade publishing but even more so in the educational sector where annotations are used more proactively

16:14:34 <lizadaly> Markus: There is a clear need expressed by the e-education space for an interoperable specification/protocol for transportable annotations

Markus Gylling: There is a clear need expressed by the e-education space for an interoperable specification/protocol for transportable annotations

16:15:08 <lizadaly> Azaroth: There was some work that was too early by NISO to bring together interested parties in annotations

Robert Sanderson: There was some work that was too early by NISO to bring together interested parties in annotations

16:15:25 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Many of the people here were a part of that and it did get the conversation started, but nothing concrete came out of that

Robert Sanderson: Many of the people here were a part of that and it did get the conversation started, but nothing concrete came out of that

16:15:40 <lizadaly> Markus: Questions/comments?

Markus Gylling: Questions/comments?

16:16:21 <lizadaly> Liam: There seems to be some competition in the educational space already providing annotation services

Liam Quin: There seems to be some competition in the educational space already providing annotation services

16:16:39 <lizadaly> Liam: That can be a precursor to standardization or it can make standardization difficult if those players aren't on board

Liam Quin: That can be a precursor to standardization or it can make standardization difficult if those players aren't on board

16:17:02 <lizadaly> ???: A lot of interest in annotation in other sectors, see RapGenius

Robert Sanderson: A lot of interest in annotation in other sectors, see RapGenius

16:17:13 <azaroth> s/???/Azaroth/
16:17:14 <ivan> s/???/Azaroth/
16:17:18 <lizadaly> BillK: There's a lot of activity in the scholarly science and research space

Bill Kasdorf: There's a lot of activity in the scholarly science and research space

16:17:20 <lizadaly> (thanks)

(thanks)

16:17:47 <Zakim> +benjaminsko

Zakim IRC Bot: +benjaminsko

16:18:18 <lizadaly> Markus: Let's look at two things: 1) work done so far in use cases

Markus Gylling: Let's look at two things: 1) work done so far in use cases

16:18:29 <lizadaly> Markus: 2) Next steps for this task force

Markus Gylling: 2) Next steps for this task force

16:18:46 <mgylling> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Annotation

Markus Gylling: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/Annotation

16:18:56 <mgylling> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Social_Reading_and_Annotations

Markus Gylling: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Social_Reading_and_Annotations

16:18:58 <lizadaly> Markus: The Annotation task force main page

Markus Gylling: The Annotation task force main page

16:19:06 <lizadaly> Markus: 2nd URL is the Use Case collection

Markus Gylling: 2nd URL is the Use Case collection

16:19:52 <lizadaly> Azaroth: There are 6 categories

Robert Sanderson: There are 6 categories

16:20:02 <lizadaly> Azaroth: 1. Basic use cases, annotations on the entire publication

Robert Sanderson: 1. Basic use cases, annotations on the entire publication

16:20:22 <lizadaly> Azaroth: 4 UCs in that section are different ways that annotations can be used at the publication level

Robert Sanderson: 4 UCs in that section are different ways that annotations can be used at the publication level

16:20:59 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Comments on the publication ("this is a great  book!"); tag the publication; structured comment (score + review); personal vs. public annotations

Robert Sanderson: Comments on the publication ("this is a great book!"); tag the publication; structured comment (score + review); personal vs. public annotations

16:21:13 <lizadaly> Azaroth: 2. Annotations that target segments of the work

Robert Sanderson: 2. Annotations that target segments of the work

16:21:28 <lizadaly> Azaroth: e.g. reading location, reading position, bookmarks

Robert Sanderson: e.g. reading location, reading position, bookmarks

16:21:47 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Highlighting a span of text (neither highlight nor bookmark have commentary, just pointers)

Robert Sanderson: Highlighting a span of text (neither highlight nor bookmark have commentary, just pointers)

16:22:09 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Commenting on some part of the text, or an embedded resource (img, video)

Robert Sanderson: Commenting on some part of the text, or an embedded resource (img, video)

16:22:26 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Annotation parts of those resources

Robert Sanderson: Annotation parts of those resources

16:22:51 <lizadaly> Azaroth: 3. Advanced UCs: cross-format annotations (e.g. annotation the "work" rather than the instance of the work)

Robert Sanderson: 3. Advanced UCs: cross-format annotations (e.g. annotation the "work" rather than the instance of the work)

16:23:20 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Styles within an annotation (green vs. yellow highlights)

Robert Sanderson: Styles within an annotation (green vs. yellow highlights)

16:23:31 <lizadaly> Azaroth: State of those resources on the web (content negotiable)

Robert Sanderson: State of those resources on the web (content negotiable)

16:23:46 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Recording state of user-manipulatable resources (this may be out of scope)

Robert Sanderson: Recording state of user-manipulatable resources (this may be out of scope)

16:24:09 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Multiple bodies

Robert Sanderson: Multiple bodies

16:24:20 <lizadaly> Azaroth: All these are covered by the Open Annotation specification already

Robert Sanderson: All these are covered by the Open Annotation specification already

16:24:27 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Those not covered:

Robert Sanderson: Those not covered:

16:24:37 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Serialize annotations into a single package

Robert Sanderson: Serialize annotations into a single package

16:25:13 <lizadaly> Azaroth: OA spec does not have an API, so these are covered here

Robert Sanderson: OA spec does not have an API, so these are covered here

16:25:30 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Ensuring that annotations persist and can be transferred

Robert Sanderson: Ensuring that annotations persist and can be transferred

16:25:57 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:26:08 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Issues around publications that are not published openly (like DRM) or issues where the annotations are not published openly

Robert Sanderson: Issues around publications that are not published openly (like DRM) or issues where the annotations are not published openly

16:26:29 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Specifying the target audience for the annotations ("these annotations are appropriate for young children")

Robert Sanderson: Specifying the target audience for the annotations ("these annotations are appropriate for young children")

16:26:47 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Contributing accessibility information about resources

Robert Sanderson: Contributing accessibility information about resources

16:26:59 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Have a rich description of a resource for use by other users

Robert Sanderson: Have a rich description of a resource for use by other users

16:27:27 <mgylling> q?

Markus Gylling: q?

16:27:32 <mgylling> ack ivan

Markus Gylling: ack ivan

16:27:48 <gcapiel> q+

Gerardo Capiel: q+

16:27:49 <Zakim> -Liam

Zakim IRC Bot: -Liam

16:28:14 <lizadaly> Ivan: On the API: Do you mean a JavaScript API that browsers can use via the web?

Ivan Herman: On the API: Do you mean a JavaScript API that browsers can use via the web?

16:28:39 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Could be both server-to-server or browser-to-server

Robert Sanderson: Could be both server-to-server or browser-to-server

16:29:29 <lizadaly> Azaroth: but this work focused on system-to-system

Robert Sanderson: but this work focused on system-to-system

16:29:59 <lizadaly> Ivan: Re: target audience for annotations; isn't this the same issue as requesting annotations for annotations?

Ivan Herman: Re: target audience for annotations; isn't this the same issue as requesting annotations for annotations?

16:30:41 <lizadaly> Ivan: This more general use case could subsume that

Ivan Herman: This more general use case could subsume that

16:30:59 <lizadaly> Azaroth: You could annotate the annotation to give it a target audience, or it could be directly-applied metadata

Robert Sanderson: You could annotate the annotation to give it a target audience, or it could be directly-applied metadata

16:31:31 <lizadaly> Azaroth: We have laid out different approaches; most people take the metadata approach because implementation is easier

Robert Sanderson: We have laid out different approaches; most people take the metadata approach because implementation is easier

16:31:55 <lizadaly> Azaroth: but either way is possible

Robert Sanderson: but either way is possible

16:32:18 <lizadaly> Markus: (Learning Resource Metadata Initiative)

Markus Gylling: (Learning Resource Metadata Initiative)

16:32:25 <mgylling> q?

Markus Gylling: q?

16:32:32 <mgylling> ack gcapiel

Markus Gylling: ack gcapiel

16:33:10 <lizadaly> Gerardo: Is there a way to know that an annotation is specific to the purpose of describing an image vs [ lost signal ]

Gerardo Capiel: Is there a way to know that an annotation is specific to the purpose of describing an image vs [ lost signal ]

16:34:04 <lizadaly> Azaroth: We went for a general system that doesn't need to know the specific motivation of the system

Robert Sanderson: We went for a general system that doesn't need to know the specific motivation of the system

16:34:11 <gcapiel> versus providing general comments or feedback

Gerardo Capiel: versus providing general comments or feedback

16:34:12 <azaroth> metadata vs annotation discussion:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-openannotation/2013Oct/0001.html

Robert Sanderson: metadata vs annotation discussion: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-openannotation/2013Oct/0001.html

16:34:15 <mgylling> q?

Markus Gylling: q?

16:34:35 <azaroth> motivations; http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/core.html#Motivations

Robert Sanderson: motivations; http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/core.html#Motivations

16:34:42 <lizadaly> Markus: In the advanced model use cases section, cases 5 & 6

Markus Gylling: In the advanced model use cases section, cases 5 & 6

16:34:52 <lizadaly> Markus: 6 is the user-manipulated case

Markus Gylling: 6 is the user-manipulated case

16:35:25 <lizadaly> Azaroth: There is an object called 'state' which we have used for recording HTTP-level information (e.g. HTTP headers like content negotiation, time at which it should be applied)

Robert Sanderson: There is an object called 'state' which we have used for recording HTTP-level information (e.g. HTTP headers like content negotiation, time at which it should be applied)

16:36:00 <lizadaly> Azaroth: "Here is the time at which the annotation applies to the resource" which is not the same as whether you can retrieve that resource

Robert Sanderson: "Here is the time at which the annotation applies to the resource" which is not the same as whether you can retrieve that resource

16:36:19 <lizadaly> Azaroth: We envision using this process for user-manipulated annotations, though none are defined at this time

Robert Sanderson: We envision using this process for user-manipulated annotations, though none are defined at this time

16:36:35 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Is there something specific to the digital publishing world in which it would be a "failure" if this were not defined?

Robert Sanderson: Is there something specific to the digital publishing world in which it would be a "failure" if this were not defined?

16:36:50 <Zakim> +Liam

Zakim IRC Bot: +Liam

16:37:29 <lizadaly> Markus: In an educational setting, learners will have a quiz widget ('answer these 10 questions'); the teacher wants to annotation question 8 and makes the annotation; when the learners get into the quiz they should not see the annotation until they get to question 8

Markus Gylling: In an educational setting, learners will have a quiz widget ('answer these 10 questions'); the teacher wants to annotation question 8 and makes the annotation; when the learners get into the quiz they should not see the annotation until they get to question 8

16:37:42 <lizadaly> Markus: There is no predictability in how this widget is built

Markus Gylling: There is no predictability in how this widget is built

16:38:12 <lizadaly> Azaroth: There might be an opportunity to attach to JS events "only display this onChange, etc"

Robert Sanderson: There might be an opportunity to attach to JS events "only display this onChange, etc"

16:38:24 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Because this is complex since there are no standards in how these widgets behave

Robert Sanderson: Because this is complex since there are no standards in how these widgets behave

16:38:35 <mgylling> q?

Markus Gylling: q?

16:38:35 <lizadaly> Azaroth: ...I wanted to raise this with the group

Robert Sanderson: ...I wanted to raise this with the group

16:39:10 <lizadaly> Markus: What is your sense of how complete this is in terms of use cases?

Markus Gylling: What is your sense of how complete this is in terms of use cases?

16:39:19 <Zakim> -dshkolnik

Zakim IRC Bot: -dshkolnik

16:39:44 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Very small number of features present in the model that are not used by any of these use cases

Robert Sanderson: Very small number of features present in the model that are not used by any of these use cases

16:40:00 <lizadaly> Azaroth: I could create cases for them but they would not be very relevant to this IG audience

Robert Sanderson: I could create cases for them but they would not be very relevant to this IG audience

16:40:06 <Zakim> +dshkolnik

Zakim IRC Bot: +dshkolnik

16:40:07 <lizadaly> Azaroth: It is complete from my perspective

Robert Sanderson: It is complete from my perspective

16:40:42 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+

Bill Kasdorf: q+

16:40:45 <lizadaly> Markus: We need to review this further to decide whether it is complete; are there things that seem to be missing right now?

Markus Gylling: We need to review this further to decide whether it is complete; are there things that seem to be missing right now?

16:40:48 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:41:11 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf

Markus Gylling: ack Bill_Kasdorf

16:41:27 <lizadaly> BillK: This may overlap with some categories we already have including versioning: how do we indicate the version of a publication that is being commented on?

Bill Kasdorf: This may overlap with some categories we already have including versioning: how do we indicate the version of a publication that is being commented on?

16:41:46 <lizadaly> Azaroth: The way we have approached versioning is to look at the web architecture and go with what's there

Robert Sanderson: The way we have approached versioning is to look at the web architecture and go with what's there

16:42:17 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Hints: state of the resource at a time period is how we've tried to capture versioning in a neutral way

Robert Sanderson: Hints: state of the resource at a time period is how we've tried to capture versioning in a neutral way

16:43:04 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Easier would be to give every version of a resource a URI (like Wikipedia)

Robert Sanderson: Easier would be to give every version of a resource a URI (like Wikipedia)

16:43:33 <lizadaly> BillK: I'm thinking of annotation that is a critique or a correction that has been subsequently corrected

Bill Kasdorf: I'm thinking of annotation that is a critique or a correction that has been subsequently corrected

16:43:54 <lizadaly> BillK: The ability to then indicate whether the comment still applies or does not apply in a later version

Bill Kasdorf: The ability to then indicate whether the comment still applies or does not apply in a later version

16:44:20 <lizadaly> Azaroth: So, either multiple specific version to which it applies, or a range of time in which it applies

Robert Sanderson: So, either multiple specific version to which it applies, or a range of time in which it applies

16:44:27 <lizadaly> BillK: This can only be applied after the fact

Bill Kasdorf: This can only be applied after the fact

16:44:38 <lizadaly> Azaroth: The annotation and the publication may be in different systems

Robert Sanderson: The annotation and the publication may be in different systems

16:45:14 <lizadaly> Azaroth: We discussed this issue: when an annotation only applies in a specific case, we decided not to open that can of worms

Robert Sanderson: We discussed this issue: when an annotation only applies in a specific case, we decided not to open that can of worms

16:45:27 <lizadaly> Azaroth: but we decided to tackle specific instances of this issue if they came up

Robert Sanderson: but we decided to tackle specific instances of this issue if they came up

16:46:04 <lizadaly> BillK: In the scholarly world: the mechanism by CrossRef is called CrossMark

Bill Kasdorf: In the scholarly world: the mechanism by CrossRef is called CrossMark

16:46:13 <lizadaly> BillK: A user of a publication can see whether they have the latest version of the publication

Bill Kasdorf: A user of a publication can see whether they have the latest version of the publication

16:46:30 <lizadaly> BillK: Important for medical use cases since they can get retracted

Bill Kasdorf: Important for medical use cases since they can get retracted

16:46:43 <lizadaly> Markus: Is this something we want to represent in the use case collection then?

Markus Gylling: Is this something we want to represent in the use case collection then?

16:47:01 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Nothing's been accepted yet, so we can rediscuss whether to tackle it

Robert Sanderson: Nothing's been accepted yet, so we can rediscuss whether to tackle it

16:47:19 <lizadaly> BillK: I wasn't sure if this was a distinct use case or a variation on an existing one

Bill Kasdorf: I wasn't sure if this was a distinct use case or a variation on an existing one

16:47:59 <lizadaly> (Markus is having connection problems)

(Markus is having connection problems)

16:48:26 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

16:48:53 <lizadaly> Ivan: The annotations themselves should/may be structured and therefore a formatted document

Ivan Herman: The annotations themselves should/may be structured and therefore a formatted document

16:49:10 <lizadaly> Ivan: e.g. the annotation needs to have markup

Ivan Herman: e.g. the annotation needs to have markup

16:49:36 <lizadaly> Azaroth: That use case is there; any resource can be a body of an annotation

Robert Sanderson: That use case is there; any resource can be a body of an annotation

16:49:44 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Including cat images

Robert Sanderson: Including cat images

16:49:53 <ivan> q?

Ivan Herman: q?

16:50:06 <Zakim> -Sharad

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sharad

16:50:22 <lizadaly> Ivan questions the utility of a fish for connection resolution

Ivan questions the utility of a fish for connection resolution

16:50:31 <lizadaly> Ivan: Next steps, Rob?

Ivan Herman: Next steps, Rob?

16:51:05 <lizadaly> Azaroth: I will add the use case of whether an annotation is valid for a document at a particular state

Robert Sanderson: I will add the use case of whether an annotation is valid for a document at a particular state

16:51:17 <lizadaly> Azaroth: How do we move to more formal vetting? Do we want for the other task forces?

Robert Sanderson: How do we move to more formal vetting? Do we wait for the other task forces?

16:51:25 <lizadaly> s/want/wait/
16:51:46 <lizadaly> Ivan: We don't have any formal approach

Ivan Herman: We don't have any formal approach

16:51:58 <lizadaly> Ivan: The unit of the task force is the entire IG

Ivan Herman: The unit of the task force is the entire IG

16:52:10 <lizadaly> Ivan: The IG should get some time to review the UCs

Ivan Herman: The IG should get some time to review the UCs

16:52:26 <lizadaly> Ivan: and then say yes/no

Ivan Herman: and then say yes/no

16:52:34 <lizadaly> Ivan: Assuming they agree... what is the next step?

Ivan Herman: Assuming they agree... what is the next step?

16:52:49 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Markus and I will take the UCs back to the IDPF and to the community group

Robert Sanderson: Markus and I will take the UCs back to the IDPF and to the community group

16:53:21 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Within the community group we can help with the annotations packages problems and system-to-system APIs

Robert Sanderson: Within the community group we can help with the annotations packages problems and system-to-system APIs

16:53:41 <lizadaly> Azaroth: We haven't want to formalize metadata in that group but could take a stab at it for this audience and for accessibility

Robert Sanderson: We haven't want to formalize metadata in that group but could take a stab at it for this audience and for accessibility

16:54:36 <lizadaly> Ivan: What I would like to see: 2 documents, 1 is looking at the use cases: are there requirements that lead to missing features?

Ivan Herman: What I would like to see: 2 documents, 1 is looking at the use cases: are there requirements that lead to missing features?

16:55:36 <lizadaly> Ivan: 2. Particular to this task force: if the IG decides that they want to go for a WG, how do these use cases the charter of a possible WG?

Ivan Herman: 2. Particular to this task force: if the IG decides that they want to go for a WG, how do these use cases the charter of a possible WG?

16:55:43 <lizadaly> Ivan: 1 outcome is a draft charter

Ivan Herman: 1 outcome is a draft charter

16:56:15 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Markus, Rob, and Paolo discussed using these UCs towards a charter

Robert Sanderson: Markus, Rob, and Paolo discussed using these UCs towards a charter

16:57:10 <lizadaly> Azaroth: Re: missing features in the OWP (Open Web Platform), would be helpful to have people in the other task forces with web experience look at whether those features are possible now

Robert Sanderson: Re: missing features in the OWP (Open Web Platform), would be helpful to have people in the other task forces with web experience look at whether those features are possible now

16:58:18 <lizadaly> Ivan: 3. Maybe require work with BillK's task force: identification of how parts of a document are targeted for annotation

Ivan Herman: 3. Maybe require work with BillK's task force: identification of how parts of a document are targeted for annotation

16:58:30 <ivan> q?

Ivan Herman: q?

16:59:08 <lizadaly> Dave Cramer: I volunteer for latinreq

Dave Cramer: I volunteer for latinreq

16:59:34 <lizadaly> BillK: There will need to be a CSS discussion at that meeting too

Bill Kasdorf: There will need to be a CSS discussion at that meeting too

17:00:05 <azaroth> ACTION: azaroth to note the differences between javascript API vs inter-system web API

ACTION: azaroth to note the differences between javascript API vs inter-system web API

17:00:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-13 - Note the differences between javascript api vs inter-system web api [on Robert Sanderson - due 2013-12-23].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-13 - Note the differences between javascript api vs inter-system web api [on Robert Sanderson - due 2013-12-23].

17:00:28 <Zakim> -gcapiel

Zakim IRC Bot: -gcapiel

17:00:46 <lizadaly> Dave Cramer: We will use the mailing list for discussions of that

Dave Cramer: We will use the mailing list for discussions of that

17:01:18 <lizadaly> Thanks!

Thanks!

17:01:19 <azaroth> ACTION: azaroth to create new use case regarding description of when annotation is no longer relevant for a publication (eg corrections)

ACTION: azaroth to create new use case regarding description of when annotation is no longer relevant for a publication (eg corrections)

17:01:20 <mgylling> bye!