IRC log of i18n on 2013-12-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:53:30 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #i18n
15:53:30 [RRSAgent]
logging to
15:53:34 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #i18n
15:53:41 [aphillip]
trackbot, prepare teleconference
15:53:43 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:53:45 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 4186
15:53:46 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:46 [trackbot]
Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
15:53:46 [trackbot]
Date: 19 December 2013
15:54:06 [aphillip]
15:54:12 [aphillip]
Regrets: JcK
15:54:19 [aphillip]
Chair: Addison Phillips
15:54:23 [aphillip]
Scribe: Addison Phillips
15:54:27 [aphillip]
ScribeNick: aphillip
15:54:35 [aphillip]
agenda+ RADAR
15:54:44 [aphillip]
agenda+ CSS Text
15:54:48 [aphillip]
agenda+ CSS Syntax
15:54:53 [aphillip]
agenda+ CharMod
15:54:59 [aphillip]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:54:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
16:00:03 [matial]
matial has joined #i18n
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I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
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16:00:18 [r12a]
zakim, dial richard
16:00:21 [Zakim]
ok, r12a; the call is being made
16:00:21 [Zakim]
16:00:25 [David]
David has joined #i18n
16:02:05 [Zakim]
16:02:18 [matial]
zakim, ??p15 is me'
16:02:18 [Zakim]
+me'; got it
16:02:32 [Zakim]
16:02:33 [matial]
zakim, ??p15 is me
16:02:33 [Zakim]
I already had ??P15 as me', matial
16:02:36 [aphillip]
zakim, who is here?
16:02:36 [Zakim]
On the phone I see aphillip, Richard, me', David_Clarke
16:02:37 [Zakim]
On IRC I see David, matial, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, fsasaki, r12a, SimonSapin, trackbot
16:02:43 [aphillip]
zakim, me' is matial
16:02:45 [Zakim]
+matial; got it
16:02:46 [r12a]
zakim, mute mati
16:02:46 [Zakim]
matial should now be muted
16:02:54 [aphillip]
zakim, mute David_Clarke
16:02:55 [Zakim]
David_Clarke should now be muted
16:03:02 [r12a]
zakim, unmute mati
16:03:02 [Zakim]
matial should no longer be muted
16:03:42 [aphillip]
16:04:05 [Zakim]
16:05:07 [Zakim]
16:06:02 [r12a]
16:06:49 [Zakim]
16:07:35 [aphillip]
Topic: Agenda
16:07:41 [aphillip]
Topic: Action Items
16:07:57 [DClarke]
DClarke has joined #i18n
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Topic: Info Share
16:08:53 [aphillip]
Next Multilingual Web Conference Announced
16:08:54 [aphillip]
16:09:01 [Zakim]
16:09:08 [aphillip]
richard: can register now, confirmations next year
16:09:45 [aphillip]
richard: don't forget to look at the ebooks list
16:09:50 [aphillip]
... which is here:
16:09:54 [Zakim]
16:09:56 [r12a]
16:10:14 [aphillip]
richard: there are interesting discussions over there and we might contribute
16:10:23 [aphillip]
... recent discussion about drop caps
16:10:30 [aphillip]
... and a "Latin" layout requirements doc
16:11:13 [Zakim]
16:11:23 [aphillip]
richard: moves afoot to create a chinese layout requirements document
16:11:35 [aphillip]
... early days, but may become a group
16:12:01 [aphillip]
richard: we might take drafty indic document and help that along?
16:12:15 [Zakim]
16:12:17 [aphillip]
... needs an assist to move forwards
16:12:54 [aphillip]
richard: great if we could get more Arabic speakers involved in writing layout requirements???
16:13:28 [fsasaki]
16:13:41 [aphillip]
felix: Linked Data for Language Technology
16:13:59 [aphillip]
... new group working on this
16:14:14 [aphillip]
... combine different kinds of multilingual resources
16:14:30 [aphillip]
... some interest at IUC in stuff like NER
16:14:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
16:14:59 [aphillip]
felix: site redesign for ML site
16:15:02 [fsasaki]
16:15:23 [aphillip]
felix: vairous projects listed that come out of MLW
16:15:35 [aphillip]
... not all are active, particularly community groups
16:15:42 [aphillip]
... but nice to see different things that are active
16:15:55 [aphillip]
s/NER/named entity recognition (NER)/
16:16:02 [aphillip]
s/MLW/Multilingual Web/
16:16:19 [aphillip]
richard: MLW pages now under International on w3 site
16:16:27 [aphillip]
... becoming more closely intergrated
16:16:34 [aphillip]
16:16:48 [aphillip]
felix: important for sustainability
16:16:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
16:17:25 [aphillip]
16:18:19 [aphillip]
zakim, take up agendum 3
16:18:19 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "CSS Syntax" taken up [from aphillip]
16:18:32 [aphillip]
richard: looked at encoding recognization and such
16:18:37 [aphillip]
... rely on encoding spec
16:18:47 [aphillip]
... don't reference currently
16:19:01 [aphillip]
... not sure what they'll do when they reference
16:20:18 [aphillip]
16:20:33 [aphillip] The note in this section contains this text: -- where XXX is a sequence of bytes other than 22 (ASCII for ") -- This is unclear and looks odd. Please use hex notation and also use the name of the character in question. E.g.: ... where XXX is a sequence of bytes other than 0x22 (the ASCII character " U+0022 QUOTATION MARK)... Related Actions Items:
16:20:56 [aphillip]
16:23:07 [r12a]
16:23:37 [aphillip]
richard: assumes that you have an alternative if you don't have a BOM
16:24:18 [aphillip]
addison: maybe that section needs more work? that handles http charset, but not sniffing the file?
16:25:01 [aphillip]
... doesn't XML do a reasonable job here?
16:26:13 [aphillip]
16:26:26 [aphillip]
16:26:44 [aphillip]
addison: you version is clearer
16:26:58 [aphillip]
16:27:02 [r12a]
zakim, mute mati
16:27:02 [Zakim]
matial should now be muted
16:27:10 [r12a]
zakim, unmute mati
16:27:10 [Zakim]
matial should no longer be muted
16:27:16 [aphillip]
Editorial: To make it clearer which are the steps referred to by "follow these steps", put the para starting with "First" and that starting with "Then" into an ordered list.
16:27:17 [Zakim]
16:27:17 [r12a]
zakim, mute david
16:27:18 [Zakim]
sorry, r12a, I do not know which phone connection belongs to david
16:27:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
16:27:46 [r12a]
16:27:50 [aphillip]
richard: there is a section on the charset rule
16:27:54 [aphillip]
... statement at the end
16:27:57 [r12a]
"The @charset rule has no effect on a stylesheet. "
16:28:08 [aphillip]
richard: that's kind of weird
16:29:07 [aphillip]
addison: it's not really clear what that means
16:30:32 [aphillip]
16:30:41 [aphillip]
zakim, take up agendum 2
16:30:41 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "CSS Text" taken up [from aphillip]
16:32:53 [r12a]
16:33:03 [aphillip]
16:33:25 [aphillip]
16:34:05 [aphillip]
richard: read my version carefully: it took a long tinme to write
16:36:27 [aphillip]
"extending the rules in a language-specific way for how the grapheme cluster is formed"
16:36:47 [aphillip]
... but not changing what is defined to be a grapheme cluster
16:38:10 [Zakim]
16:38:40 [aphillip]
richard: syllable in deva is not a grapheme cluster by any definition at all
16:38:52 [aphillip]
... may be 2 or more graphemes in a syllable
16:39:10 [aphillip]
richard: make grapheme cluster mean the same thing everywhere and mean Unicode clusters
16:39:20 [fsasaki_]
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16:39:29 [Zakim]
16:40:32 [aphillip]
richard: use technical terms in the defined way
16:41:44 [aphillip]
"apply additional rules for the selected text (beyond just grapheme clusters) when applying a given CSS Text operation"
16:42:04 [aphillip]
16:42:40 [aphillip]
This is not true where group ruby is concerned. The intercharacter breaks that would be allowed in the base text are not allowed within a run of ideographic characters that are spanned by a single ruby text element.
16:42:49 [aphillip]
16:43:02 [aphillip]
16:43:36 [aphillip]
16:44:07 [aphillip]
I think that, for the sake of interoperability, the CSS spec should require the use of UAX14 as a default for line breaking behaviour. It should also state that the rules in UAX14 may need tailoring for certain scripts, and that the properties specified in this section assist the user in controlling line breaking behaviour.
16:44:15 [aphillip]
Text in the spec such as the definition of word-break: normal, which says "Words break according to their usual rules", would then provide a little more guidance to the implementor.
16:44:33 [aphillip]
16:45:12 [aphillip]
richard: only a small part of (CJK) line-breaking
16:45:35 [aphillip]
... also, it doesn't really tell you how to do line breaking (or justification)
16:47:07 [aphillip]
16:47:54 [aphillip]
16:48:17 [aphillip]
16:48:38 [aphillip]
16:49:24 [aphillip]
"Implementers are expected, to the extent possible, to make available appropriate justification behaviours based on the language of the paragraph e.g. character-dependent expansion rules for Japanese, using cursive elongation for Arabic, using ‘inter-word’ for English, keeping typographic syllables together in complex scripts, etc. Only where such linguistic tailorings have not yet been implemented should the browser use a justification method that i[CUT]
16:50:50 [aphillip]
16:51:09 [aphillip]
16:53:45 [aphillip]
addison: always used in combination with inter-word
16:54:11 [aphillip]
richard: took to mean 'auto' if you want indic stuff, inter-word and distribute are "forced"
16:57:29 [aphillip]
richard: send comment as is? but then develop over email
16:58:23 [aphillip]
addison: "this justification thing needs more work: work on what it selects/applies to and then how it is used"?
16:58:52 [aphillip]
16:59:41 [matial]
I need to leave. Bye.
16:59:50 [Zakim]
17:01:44 [aphillip]
Topic: AOB?
17:02:05 [aphillip]
richard: raised comment on WebVTT
17:02:17 [aphillip]
addison: that's good
17:02:27 [aphillip]
... trackered?
17:04:15 [Zakim]
17:04:36 [Zakim]
17:06:19 [aphillip]
Next Call: 9 January
17:08:12 [Zakim]
17:08:14 [Zakim]
17:08:34 [r12a]
zakim, drop richard
17:08:34 [Zakim]
Richard is being disconnected
17:08:35 [Zakim]
I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has ended
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Attendees were aphillip, Richard, David_Clarke, matial, fsasaki, fsasaki_
17:10:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
17:18:07 [aphillip]
zakim, bye
17:18:07 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #i18n
17:18:14 [aphillip]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:18:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
17:18:36 [aphillip]
Present: Addison, Richard, Felix, Mati, David
17:18:56 [aphillip]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:18:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
17:19:29 [aphillip]
rrsagent, bye
17:19:29 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items