15:55:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
15:55:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/12/11-forms-irc
15:55:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:55:35 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #forms
15:55:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
15:55:37 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
15:55:38 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
15:55:38 <trackbot> Date: 11 December 2013
15:56:21 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Dec/0007.html
15:56:27 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Dec/0007.html
15:56:40 <Steven> Chair: Steven
15:56:43 <Steven> Regrets: Philip
15:57:00 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:57:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/11-forms-minutes.html Steven
16:01:34 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek has joined #forms
16:01:48 <nvdbleek> zakim, code?
16:01:48 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek
16:01:54 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
16:02:14 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
16:02:20 <Steven> zakim, I am ?
16:02:21 <Zakim> sorry, Steven, I do not see a party named '?'
16:02:22 <Zakim> +??P18
16:02:27 <Steven> zakim, I am ?
16:02:27 <Zakim> +Steven; got it
16:02:52 <Zakim> + +1.323.425.aaaa
16:03:13 <Zakim> +ebruchez
16:03:16 <nvdbleek> hi
16:04:02 <Steven> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:04:02 <Zakim> - +1.323.425.aaaa
16:04:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see Steven, ebruchez
16:06:11 <unl> unl has joined #forms
16:06:43 <Zakim> + +1.323.425.aabb
16:06:55 <nvdbleek> zakim, I am +1.323
16:06:55 <Zakim> +nvdbleek; got it
16:06:58 <Steven> zakim, aabb is nvdbleek
16:06:58 <Zakim> sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
16:07:19 <Steven> zakim, +1.3 is nvdbleek
16:07:19 <Zakim> +unl
16:07:19 <Zakim> sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named '+1.3'
16:07:33 <Steven> zakim, 1.3 is nvdbleek
16:07:33 <Zakim> sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named '1.3'
16:10:36 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-1959 - Propose how to fix the implicit model identification
16:10:36 <Steven> with context nodes
16:10:36 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Dec/0006.html
16:10:57 <Steven> Steven: Thanks for doing this Eric.
16:11:04 <Steven> s/c/k/
16:12:15 <Steven> Steven: "the logic for nested model switching remains
16:12:15 <Steven> unsatisfactory"
16:12:37 <Steven> Erik: We have discussed this in the past.
16:12:44 <Steven> ... but not resolved it.
16:12:55 <Steven> ... we don't need to fix it right now, it is not a new problem
16:13:52 <Steven> ... for actions I have modified the text to make it independent of the context node
16:14:21 <Steven> ... in short, the solution is to use @model
16:15:14 <Steven> Steven: You don't have to always use @model
16:15:17 <Steven> Erik: No
16:16:10 <Steven> ... for instance rebuild used to use the context node
16:16:22 <Steven> ... now you use an ancestor element
16:16:45 <Steven> ... it is now statically determined
16:18:01 <Steven> Steven: This is after all a corner case, multiple models aren't used often
16:18:14 <Steven> ... this doesn't break interoperability in general
16:19:03 <Steven> Erik: Right
16:19:17 <Steven> ... and it simplifies the spec
16:20:10 <Steven> Steven: So what is not solved?
16:20:23 <Steven> Erik: The new spec fixes references to the context node
16:21:03 <Steven> ... but doesn't address the more general case of determining the context item.
16:22:00 <Steven> Steven: What happens now if @bind is used? Does anything break? Do we say what happens?
16:22:26 <Steven> Erik: The spec has never said anything about that
16:22:55 <Steven> ... if you use @bind now in thos eactions, it will be ignored.
16:23:01 <Steven> s/thos/those/
16:23:46 <ebruchez> <group model="model1"><group bind="bind-in-model2"><rebuild/>
16:23:53 <Steven> s/eactions/actions/
16:23:55 <ebruchez> the rebuild action refers to model1, not model2
16:24:32 <ebruchez> <group model="model1"><group ref="$var-dynamically-pointing-to-node-in-model2"><rebuild/>
16:25:03 <nvdbleek> from section 3.3.3 Binding Attributes: 'It is an error (The xforms-binding-error Event) if the XForms Processor encounters a bind attribute IDREF value that refers to an ID not on a bind element.'
16:25:29 <Steven> Steven: Does rebuild have a model attribute?
16:25:35 <Steven> Erik: Yes, it is in Common
16:25:40 <nvdbleek> so I think I was wrong, and that you can refer binds outside the current model and therefore switch models with bind attributes
16:27:04 <Steven> Erik: It is weird that you refer to a bind by ID
16:27:14 <Steven> ... we should have a more contextual method
16:27:34 <Steven> ... global IDs are a annoyance
16:27:37 <Steven> ... no scoping
16:28:45 <Steven> Steven: I think using IDs as we did was a mistake in retrospect, but we didn't foresee the problems. We though we were being good citizens.
16:29:36 <Steven> Steven: So you can change models using a bind
16:29:44 <Steven> Nick: Does Orbeon support it?
16:29:59 <Steven> s/s s/sn s/
16:30:05 <Steven> s/a a/a an/
16:30:12 <Steven> Erik: Yes we do.
16:30:25 <Steven> Erik: Yes we do.
16:32:47 <nvdbleek> <xf:bind id="l1" ..> <xf:bind id="l2" .. > <xf:bind id="l3"> </xf:bind> </xf:bind></xf:bind>
16:33:16 <nvdbleek> <xf:group bind="l1"> <xf:group bind="l3">
16:33:26 <Steven> Steven: What happens in a case like <group model="model1"><group ref="$var-dynamically-pointing-to-node-in-model2"><rebuild/>
16:33:41 <nvdbleek> <xf:group bind="l3">  <xf:group bind="l1">
16:33:49 <Steven> ... when the ref switches model. Will there be confusing cases?
16:34:30 <Steven> Erik: Either solution has advantages and disadvantages.
16:35:13 <Steven> ... I am not sure what anyone would expect.
16:35:36 <Steven> ... I am not sure there is an 'natural' way
16:36:35 <Steven> Erik: So it only occurs on actions that don't 'naturally' have a @ref
16:36:44 <Steven> s/Erik/Steven/
16:37:04 <Steven> Erik: Right, rebuild, etc. Refresh.
16:37:50 <Steven> Steven: It sounds like we should just say this is a feature.
16:38:26 <Steven> Topic: Coming meetings
16:38:26 <Steven> [no link]
16:38:50 <Steven> Steven: I can't be here next week, and then it is the holiday break
16:39:14 <Steven> ... so our next call is on the 8th.
16:39:19 <nvdbleek3> nvdbleek3 has joined #forms
16:39:33 <Steven> Nick: I can't be here next week either.
16:39:53 <Steven> Steven: So speak on the 8th. Good Xmas!
16:39:58 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
16:40:05 <Zakim> -Steven
16:40:07 <Zakim> -unl
16:40:09 <Zakim> -ebruchez
16:40:23 <Zakim> -nvdbleek
16:40:24 <Steven> zakim, who is on the call?
16:40:24 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
16:40:24 <Zakim> Attendees were Steven, +1.323.425.aaaa, ebruchez, +1.323.425.aabb, nvdbleek, unl
16:40:24 <Zakim> apparently IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended, Steven
16:40:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see nvdbleek3, ebruchez, nvdbleek, Zakim, RRSAgent, Steven, trackbot
16:40:31 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
16:40:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/11-forms-minutes.html Steven
16:41:14 <Steven> s/a annnoy/an annoy/
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