15:57:47 RRSAgent has joined #html-media
15:57:47 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/12/10-html-media-irc
15:57:49 RRSAgent, make logs public
15:57:49 Zakim has joined #html-media
15:57:51 Zakim, this will be 63342
15:57:51 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
15:57:52 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
15:57:53 Date: 10 December 2013
15:57:58 pladd has joined #html-media
15:58:28 ddorwin has joined #html-media
15:58:43 HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started
15:58:46 +[Microsoft]
15:58:49 + +1.760.591.aaaa
15:59:01 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:59:01 +paulc; got it
15:59:09 BobLund has joined #html-media
15:59:20 Zakim, aaaa is me
15:59:20 +pladd; got it
16:00:26 jdsmith has joined #html-media
16:00:32 adrianba has joined #html-media
16:00:48 +[Microsoft]
16:01:22 +markw
16:01:23 acolwell has joined #html-media
16:01:39 markw has joined #html-media
16:01:53 +Aaron_Colwell
16:02:09 Zakim, who is on the phone ?
16:02:09 On the phone I see pladd, paulc, [Microsoft], markw, Aaron_Colwell
16:02:10 zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:11 On the phone I see pladd, paulc, [Microsoft], markw, Aaron_Colwell
16:02:43 zakim, [Microsoft] is jdsmith
16:02:43 +jdsmith; got it
16:02:55 + +1.425.936.aabb
16:03:21 +BobLund
16:03:23 +davide
16:03:23 davide has joined #html-media
16:03:41 zakim, 936 is me
16:03:41 sorry, ddorwin, I do not recognize a party named '936'
16:03:47 zakim, aabb is me
16:03:48 +ddorwin; got it
16:03:55 zakim, who is here?
16:03:55 I don't understand your question, davide.
16:04:17 zakim, who is on the phone?
16:04:17 I don't understand your question, davide.
16:04:23 zakim, who is on the phone?
16:04:23 On the phone I see pladd, paulc, jdsmith, markw, Aaron_Colwell, ddorwin, davide, BobLund
16:05:01 +pal
16:05:08 pal has joined #html-media
16:05:34 adrian: Are you going to call in?
16:05:47 I need you for the MSE discussions.
16:05:58 +[Microsoft]
16:06:09 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
16:06:10 +adrianba; got it
16:06:22 ScribeNick: adrianba
16:06:26 Scribe: Adrian Bateman
16:06:35 Chair: Paul Cotton
16:06:37 zakim, who is on the phone?
16:06:37 On the phone I see pladd, paulc, jdsmith, markw, Aaron_Colwell, ddorwin, davide, BobLund, pal, adrianba
16:06:44 TOPIC: Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe
16:06:50 paulc: done
16:06:59 TOPIC: MSE status and bugs
16:07:11 paulc: there is an editor's draft and candidate CR draft
16:07:15 two bugs still open
16:07:32 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Dec/0013.html
16:07:49 MSE bugs: http://tinyurl.com/6pdnzej
16:07:53 s/two bugs/paulc: two bugs/
16:08:01 ... we'll cover these below
16:08:12 ACTION-57?
16:08:12 ACTION-57 -- Aaron Colwell to File a bug on mse about the file api change -- due 2013-12-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:08:12 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/57
16:08:19 paulc: this is done
16:08:23 close ACTION-57
16:08:23 Closed ACTION-57.
16:08:32 ACTION-58?
16:08:32 ACTION-58 -- Adrian Bateman to Speak to editors of file api spec about resurrecting "origin of blob" text in spec -- due 2013-12-10 -- OPEN
16:08:32 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/58
16:10:55 Adrian's proposal is in: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23989#c2
16:11:32 adrianba: i updated the bug with a proposal
16:11:47 acolwell: sounds fine with me - i can update the spec
16:12:37 paulc: the place that refers to the text coming in line can be changed
16:12:45 acolwell: we still have a dependency on createObjectURL
16:12:53 paulc: think we can close action-58?
16:12:57 adrianba: yes
16:13:01 close ACTION-58
16:13:01 Closed ACTION-58.
16:13:11 ACTION-59?
16:13:11 ACTION-59 -- Paul Cotton to Coordinate with web apps on the streams api, give them mse requirements and timeline -- due 2013-12-10 -- OPEN
16:13:11 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/59
16:13:19 paulc: this is pending - doesn't block the next step
16:13:20 q+
16:13:45 ack me
16:14:02 adrianba: i'm meeting with one of the editors of stream on friday and can discuss this
16:14:12 action-59 due in 1 week
16:14:12 Set action-59 Coordinate with web apps on the streams api, give them mse requirements and timeline due date to 2013-12-17.
16:14:26 ACTION-60?
16:14:26 ACTION-60 -- Adrian Bateman to Produce a summary of last call comments dispositions -- due 2013-12-10 -- OPEN
16:14:26 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/60
16:14:48 paulc: any update on this?
16:16:29 adrianba: will send offline
16:16:36 it is somewhere in the HTML wiki
16:17:03 TOPIC: Bug 23169 - reconsider the jitter video quality metrics again
16:17:11 paulc: been reopened by Microsoft again
16:17:21 Fix: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23169#c16
16:17:26 Reopen: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23169#c17
16:17:27 ... implementation from F2F discussion was done on dec 2
16:17:37 ... jerry re-opened it
16:17:51 jdsmith: we just requested the units be adjusted
16:18:23 acolwell: this was an accident - it was implied to be seconds before and i accidentally changed it to imply microseconds
16:18:26 ... i will fix it
16:18:43 CfC for MSE CR Working Draft is awaiting ACTION-58, ACTION-60 and Bug 23169
16:18:54 TOPIC: CfC for MSE CR Working Draft is awaiting ACTION-58, ACTION-60 and Bug 23169
16:19:14 paulc: we're waiting on the bug fixes and the ACTION-60 document
16:19:30 ... doesn't seem to be anything blocking us from getting candidate CR and running CfC
16:19:44 ... need LC disposition of comments for the meeting with the Director
16:20:13 ... the right plan is to make the two pending changes for 23169 and 23989 and send a note that the candidate draft is ready to go
16:20:32 ... you said when you ran pubrules it complained about implementation experience
16:20:37 acolwell: i think that is a respec nit
16:20:53 paulc: this escalates ACTION-60 - it will be on the critical path
16:21:04 ... i will send a note to the team after the meeting with a timeline
16:21:33 ... i originally proposed that as soon as we have the candidate draft and run the CfC in the TF and WG at the same time
16:21:39 q+
16:21:46 ack adrian
16:22:49 adrianba: propose we ask for objections from the TF and then run CfC in the WG since the TF is a part of the WG
16:22:55 ... if the WG approves then the TF must too
16:23:04 paulc: we could do that if the meeting is okay with that
16:23:09 ... any objections?
16:23:33 The candidate draft will include the proposed changes to bug 23989 and 23169 discussed at this meeting.
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16:24:18 paulc: we will get the CfC started as soon as we get the candidate draft
16:24:26 acolwell: suggestions for date?
16:24:37 paulc: thursday jan 9?
16:24:47 acolwell: and the end date is 3 months after
16:24:50 paulc: yes
16:25:02 ... did we agree features at risk?
16:25:07 acolwell: totalFrameDelay
16:25:15 acolwell: i will get something published today
16:25:16 Paul suggested Thu Jan 8 as the publication date with only frame delay as the CR feature at risk.
16:25:53 s/jan 9/jan 8/
16:26:07 TOPIC: EME status and bugs
16:26:17 paulc: agenda item 6 has new bugs
16:26:30 ... agenda item 7 has a bug david wanted to discuss
16:26:41 ... agenda item 8 documents next steps for bugs
16:26:46 ... mostly on the editors
16:27:06 ... only thing i want to do here is to give anyone named an opportunity to push back
16:27:18 ... propose we spend the next while on item 6, the new bugs
16:28:17 TOPIC: New EME bugs this week
16:28:27 23828 and 23897 are related to the addition of keysystem to HTMLSourceElement
16:28:27 TOPIC: Bug 23828 - HTMLSourceElement with |keySystem| attribute should create MediaKeys object for |keySystem|
16:28:34 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23828
16:28:35 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23828
16:29:57 ddorwin: in the original spec we added keysystem attribute
16:30:07 ... we found some inconsistencies at TPAC
16:30:25 ... this bug is to create a MediaKeys object if there is keysystem
16:30:36 2nd bug related to this topic is https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23897
16:30:39 ... Henri pointed out that the spec only added a script attribute
16:30:50 ... so the other bug is to do what we intended and allow content attributes
16:31:02 ... this was always the intent but the spec didn't say that correctly
16:31:12 ... there is still the question of whether we want to do this
16:31:21 ... it is mentioned in the features at risk bug
16:31:33 ... this might be the last thing to fix on this before making the decision to keep or not
16:31:52 adrianba: +1
16:32:27 paulc: are you saying wait until LC?
16:32:34 ddorwin: yes, this will be at the bottom of the list to fix
16:32:46 Both bugs 23897 and 23828.
16:32:51 s/until LC/until just before LC/
16:32:59 TOPIC: Bug 23866 - Remove section 4.3. Addition to Media Element Load Algorithm
16:33:06 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23866
16:33:15 ddorwin: a tracking bug to clean up spec text
16:33:32 ... this is about separating the MediaKeys from the media element
16:33:47 ... you should be able to change the source or reload and the MediaKeys remains attached
16:34:10 TOPIC: Bug 23955 - Add optional MediaKeys.loadSession(DOMString sessionId) method
16:34:16 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23955
16:34:33 ddorwin: proposal to make a peer to createSession to take a session ID and load the session
16:34:44 ... lots of discussions about this - for example key release
16:35:02 ... this is a proposal to formalise this and define how it looks including same origin rules, etc.
16:35:17 yep
16:35:23 ... realising this isn't always required it is optional
16:35:39 paulc: i note that markw says this could allow key release bug to be closed
16:35:47 ... any discussion on this?
16:36:02 TOPIC: Bug 24025 - Add optional configuration parameter to MediaKeys constructor
16:36:07 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24025
16:36:22 ddorwin: looking at other use cases (e.g. offline specific licenses)
16:36:41 ... we don't have a way to pass those - it could be done in the keymessage/update path it would require extra round trips
16:36:57 ... propose to add a configuration parameter to the CDM
16:37:10 ... mark suggested a dictionary
16:37:28 q+
16:37:31 ... all of this would be optional - not sure we can define all the parameters
16:37:41 ... Henri replied this morning - i will reply later
16:37:50 paulc: mark also responded
16:37:51 ack markw
16:38:02 markw: just a question about the dictionary
16:38:22 ... i think this is to say this is a javascript object and doesn't prevent additional values
16:38:43 ... implementations are free to ignore undefined members
16:39:18 TOPIC: Bug 24026 - Document that URLs (destinationURL) should/may be validated and/or normalized
16:39:23 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24026
16:39:38 ddorwin: URLs can come from CDM or potentially from media data
16:39:45 ... in some implementations they get normalised
16:39:57 ... we at least need to say they will be normalised or validated
16:40:07 ... there is a question of if we say they should be
16:40:28 ... i think we might have discussed this before and one issue was how to define normalise
16:40:58 ... we could include a warning that it might be different across browsers
16:41:07 ... i know there is a URL spec - perhaps it will help
16:42:20 paulc: does anyone know the status of this in W3C and IETF?
16:42:34 ... think no work currently at W3C
16:44:14 ddorwin: least controversial is they may be validated, next is they should be validated, and finally is switching to some kind of URL type which seems further down the road
16:45:11 pal: what is the exact definition of validated?
16:45:32 ddorwin: i would assume either invalid url components may be dropped or you might lose the entire url
16:45:51 pal: so it looks like the question is what is the defining document for a valid URL
16:46:22 pal: i guess changing a URL out from under a piece of code that might expect something specific sounds impolite
16:46:25 q+
16:46:35 ack adrian
16:49:27 adrianba: i think it is okay to change the url given its purpose
16:49:58 ... but unless there is a concrete definition of validate or normalize i think the distinction between must and should isn't useful
16:50:23 pal: the URL may have come from the media data, right?
16:50:28 ddorwin: yes
16:50:43 pal: if this is going to be transformed it would be good to know how
16:51:01 ... this is going to be in files - if it gets transformed differently in different implementations
16:51:02 q+
16:51:13 ... we should know exactly what happens
16:51:38 ddorwin: this is about nits in URLs - if you create a valid URL that is valid in most browsers then you won't have a problem
16:51:51 ... it's intended to be used in XHR
16:52:23 pal: making sure that the file contains a valid URL is fine but i think we need to be very precise
16:53:06 paulc: anne's spec is supposed to document what browsers do
16:53:07 q?
16:53:15 ack adrian
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16:57:34 -pladd
16:58:08 paulc: one last item i want to process
16:58:19 TOPIC: Other EME bugs for discussion
16:58:25 TOPIC: Bug 23733 - Consider prohibiting support of active content by CDMs
16:58:30 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23733
16:58:42 paulc: wondering what we want to do about this
16:58:50 ... don't think we have time for the discussion today
16:59:20 markw: the bug was to consider this topic - it was proposed originally in the security section by glenn i think
16:59:32 ... there was a lot of pushback at tpac, especially the definition of active
16:59:55 ... if there was a way to prohibit executable content - i think there is a class of content nobody wants - then we could define that
17:00:18 ... we could frame this as a question to CDM vendors
17:00:38 ... in the absence of any consensus then we can drop this
17:01:03 paulc: i'm trying to understand what change you are proposing
17:01:12 markw: i'm not sure what is in there next
17:01:24 paulc: why don't you take the f2f and make a proposal?
17:01:40 markw: not sure i can do that
17:01:52 paulc: doesn't that mean won't fix?
17:01:53 q+
17:01:59 rrsagent, generate minutes
17:01:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/10-html-media-minutes.html paulc
17:02:33 adrianba: we could close NEEDSINFO but i think mark was proposing to ask for a discussion first
17:02:45 TOPIC: Other EME bugs awaiting action by Editors
17:02:48 q+
17:03:01 paulc: lots of action items for editors
17:03:02 q+
17:03:04 q-
17:03:22 ack markw
17:03:45 markw: i think 17199 is dependent on loadSession bug
17:03:47