14:58:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eval
14:58:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/12/05-eval-irc
14:58:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:58:10 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #eval
14:58:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3825
14:58:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:13 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG 2.0 Evaluation Methodology Task Force Teleconference
14:58:13 <trackbot> Date: 05 December 2013
14:59:27 <Richard> Richard has joined #eval
14:59:55 <shadi> zakim, this is eval
14:59:55 <Zakim> ok, shadi; that matches WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM
15:00:02 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kathy_Wahlbin
15:00:29 <Liz> Liz has joined #eval
15:00:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:00:52 <Sarah_Swierenga> Sarah_Swierenga has joined #eval
15:00:59 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:01:00 <Mike_Elledge> Mike_Elledge has joined #eval
15:01:06 <Zakim> +Shadi
15:01:07 <Zakim> +Liz
15:01:25 <Zakim> +Sarah_Swierenga
15:01:42 <Zakim> +Mike_Elledge
15:01:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:01:44 <Detlev> Detlev has joined #eval
15:02:00 <agarrison> agarrison has joined #eval
15:02:18 <agarrison> Should be able to join telecon shortly
15:02:23 <Richard> Zakim, ipcaller is richard
15:02:24 <ericvelleman> ericvelleman has joined #eval
15:02:25 <Zakim> +richard; got it
15:02:54 <Zakim> +Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:03:01 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #eval
15:03:17 <Zakim> +Detlev
15:03:19 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kathy_Wahlbin, Shadi, Liz, Sarah_Swierenga, Mike_Elledge, richard, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Detlev
15:03:47 <Zakim> +EricVelleman
15:04:12 <MartijnHoutepen> MartijnHoutepen has joined #eval
15:04:21 <Detlev> Zakim, mute me
15:04:21 <Zakim> Detlev should now be muted
15:04:26 <shadi> scribe: Sarah_Swierenga
15:04:29 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:04:43 <agarrison> Zakim, ipcaller is alistair
15:04:43 <Zakim> +alistair; got it
15:04:59 <Zakim> +MartijnHoutepen
15:05:08 <Sarah_Swierenga> editor draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20131129
15:05:08 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-evaltf/2013Dec/0006.html
15:05:12 <MartijnHoutepen> Zakim, please mute me
15:05:12 <Zakim> MartijnHoutepen should now be muted
15:05:31 <Sarah_Swierenga> Disposition of Comments: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20130226
15:05:36 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft has joined #eval
15:05:38 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/WCAG-EM-20131129/
15:05:59 <Zakim> +MoeKraft
15:06:57 <Sarah_Swierenga> shadi: full editor draft - survey for public comments
15:08:02 <Sarah_Swierenga> shadi: thanks to Vivian, Moe, and Kathy for their valuable copy edit comments.
15:08:42 <Sarah_Swierenga> shadi: most new work in the editor draft is in the steps themselves, mostly Step 4 audit the selected sample
15:08:45 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20131129#step4
15:09:45 <Sarah_Swierenga> shadi: Step 3 - factors that influence sample size has been cleaned up and reorganized; content pretty much unchanged
15:10:43 <Sarah_Swierenga> shadi: WCAG working group comments - We need the approvals from the WCAG WG and ERT WG
15:11:40 <Sarah_Swierenga> shadi: needs comments from our group for fixes before publication - suggestions to reduce confusion, misrepresentation
15:12:36 <shadi> [[
15:12:37 <shadi>     priority: [mild/medium/strong suggestion]
15:12:37 <shadi>     location: (such as: "under Introduction heading, third paragraph")
15:12:37 <shadi>     current wording:
15:12:37 <shadi>     suggested revision:
15:12:39 <shadi>     rationale:
15:12:41 <shadi> ]]
15:12:48 <Sarah_Swierenga> shadi: also add comments for fixing after publication, but make sure to clearly indicate those comments; use the 'priority' format
15:13:01 <ericvelleman> survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/WCAG-EM-20131129/
15:14:31 <Sarah_Swierenga> shadi: timeline - desire to publish before end of year - reading by the fireplace, lol
15:15:46 <Sarah_Swierenga> shadi: timeline - feedback by Dec 13th; resolve issues by Dec 17 for WCAG, and Dec 18 for ERT, and then publish Dec 20 hopefully
15:17:12 <Sarah_Swierenga> eric: agenda items addressed in Shadi's comments
15:17:28 <Sarah_Swierenga> shadi and eric: initial reactions?
15:17:47 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/WCAG-EM-20131129/results
15:18:20 <Detlev> I would still like to have a little discussion of Step 5.d: Provide a Performance Score (Optional)...
15:18:32 <Sarah_Swierenga> mike: mainly editorial comments, not substantial issues
15:18:47 <Kathy> q+
15:18:54 <Detlev> q+
15:19:07 <Kathy> ack me
15:19:45 <Sarah_Swierenga> kathy: wondering where the info is on incorporating assistive technology into the testing
15:20:20 <Sarah_Swierenga> kathy: using AT and the approach for organizations
15:20:20 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20131129#step1c
15:20:39 <shadi> Step 1.c: Define an Accessibility Support Baseline
15:21:47 <Sarah_Swierenga> kathy: lots of discussion within Federal, state, and businesses about integrating AT into the testing protocol
15:22:20 <Sarah_Swierenga> shadi: is this topic appropriate for this document? include your thoughts in the survey
15:22:24 <agarrison> q+
15:22:31 <Detlev> q-
15:22:36 <Detlev> q+
15:23:56 <Sarah_Swierenga> Allistar: We need to indicate how to create a baseline, e.g., accessibility support
15:25:15 <Sarah_Swierenga> Alistair: maybe this needs to be discussed with the WCAG 2 team
15:26:12 <Sarah_Swierenga> Alistair: there will be a lot of questions about this, but can hold until after the public comments
15:26:36 <shadi> +1 to Eric's suggestion
15:26:39 <Sarah_Swierenga> Shadi: could add a comment in the public editor draft
15:27:01 <shadi> s/Shadi:/Eric
15:28:36 <ericvelleman> q?
15:29:07 <Sarah_Swierenga> shadi: if someone declares that JavaScript is needed on the site, is that an accessibility issue? How much do these issues relate to our mission?
15:30:08 <shadi> q- ag
15:30:52 <Sarah_Swierenga> kathy: offers to send her webinar link to the list
15:30:58 <Kathy> http://www.howto.gov/training/classes/use-assistive-technology-to-comply-with-section-508
15:31:20 <Detlev> ack me
15:31:38 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20131129#step5d
15:32:27 <shadi> q+
15:32:50 <Sarah_Swierenga> detlev: Section 5d - performance score - wants to discuss this section - per instance score  may be difficult to implement, and may not reflect the priority of that failure
15:33:07 <Detlev> http://www.dingoaccess.com/accessibility/accessibility-barrier-scores-2/
15:33:25 <Detlev> http://www.bitvtest.eu/bitv_test/intro/overview.html
15:34:00 <Sarah_Swierenga> detlev: different ways of creating scores, but as currently written it appears to be the only recommended approach
15:35:38 <Mike_Elledge> q+
15:36:36 <shadi> q-
15:36:38 <Detlev> Per site and per page (pass/fail) seem fine to me!
15:36:44 <Sarah_Swierenga> shadi: didn't we try to put in a combined score, rather than multiple ones?
15:37:18 <Richard> Per site is the only one that works for me
15:37:47 <Sarah_Swierenga> Mike: remembers discussing this, but the group wasn't sure which one to use; no closure from the group
15:38:15 <Sarah_Swierenga> Mike: could we post the options in the resources section?
15:38:52 <Sarah_Swierenga> Eric: remembers wanting to keep this section more general, but group didn't come to a conclusion
15:39:21 <Detlev> q+
15:39:33 <shadi> q- mike
15:39:58 <Sarah_Swierenga> eric: could do performance scores for complete website, web page, web page state, or per instance - depends on the goal of the evaluation
15:40:10 <Detlev> ack me
15:40:29 <Sarah_Swierenga> detlev: criticality of the failure is very important
15:41:18 <Sarah_Swierenga> detlev: wants a score that goes beyond pass/fail, but speaks to criticality
15:41:50 <shadi> q+
15:43:17 <Richard> q+
15:43:20 <Mike_Elledge> q+
15:43:30 <shadi> q- later
15:43:34 <Sarah_Swierenga> detlev: wants to identify other approaches - later would be ok (maybe a note in the public editor draft)
15:44:10 <Sarah_Swierenga> detlev: we don't want to 'outlaw' other approaches
15:44:23 <shadi> q- rich
15:45:56 <Sarah_Swierenga> richard: Priority A, AA, AAA are already a rough priority standard, but trying to specify critical issues until you get into the testing process
15:46:38 <Sarah_Swierenga> detlev: methodology shouldn't define criticality, but the test score should reflect a way of giving a priority
15:47:10 <Detlev> +1 to Richard
15:47:14 <Sarah_Swierenga> richard: recommends not going into too much detail into this section
15:47:28 <shadi> ack mike
15:48:15 <Sarah_Swierenga> Mike: suggests putting a placeholder indicating that we want comments on
15:48:34 <Sarah_Swierenga> eric: everything is a draft, but we can add an editor note
15:49:59 <Sarah_Swierenga> eric: likes the idea of keeping this section more flexible as suggested today.
15:50:10 <Detlev> fine
15:50:58 <Detlev> Zakim, mute me
15:50:58 <Zakim> Detlev should now be muted
15:52:25 <Sarah_Swierenga> shadi: per instance scores become more subjective and involve weighting and other considerations; recommends dropping the per instance score and keeping the per website and per page pass/fail
15:52:31 <Detlev> lets have a quick survey in this telco of  this suggestion, Shadi!
15:53:21 <Detlev> +1
15:53:32 <Mike_Elledge> +1
15:53:32 <Liz> 0
15:53:33 <Kathy> +1
15:53:34 <agarrison> +1
15:53:35 <MartijnHoutepen> +1
15:53:36 <ericvelleman> +1
15:53:38 <MoeKraft> +1
15:53:38 <Sarah_Swierenga> +1
15:53:46 <MaryJo> +1
15:54:15 <Sarah_Swierenga> eric: we
15:54:36 <Sarah_Swierenga> eric: we'll make this change in the doc before publishing the public editor draft
15:57:22 <shadi> q+
15:57:26 <shadi> ack me
15:57:42 <shadi> http://www.csun.edu/cod/conference/2014/sessions/
15:58:29 <Sarah_Swierenga> shadi: meeting at the csun conference? this might coincide with the next public draft (the final public draft)
16:00:36 <Detlev> bye!
16:00:38 <Richard> bye
16:00:40 <Mike_Elledge> bye!
16:00:41 <MartijnHoutepen> bye
16:00:41 <Zakim> -Sarah_Swierenga
16:00:42 <Zakim> -alistair
16:00:42 <Zakim> -MoeKraft
16:00:43 <Zakim> -Kathy_Wahlbin
16:00:44 <Liz> bye
16:00:44 <Zakim> -EricVelleman
16:00:45 <ericvelleman> ericvelleman has left #eval
16:00:45 <Zakim> -Detlev
16:00:45 <Zakim> -richard
16:00:46 <Zakim> -Mike_Elledge
16:00:46 <Zakim> -Mary_Jo_Mueller
16:00:48 <Zakim> -Shadi
16:00:50 <Zakim> -MartijnHoutepen
16:01:47 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has ended
16:01:48 <Zakim> Attendees were Kathy_Wahlbin, Shadi, Liz, Sarah_Swierenga, Mike_Elledge, richard, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Detlev, EricVelleman, alistair, MartijnHoutepen, MoeKraft
16:09:20 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
16:09:20 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:09:20 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:09:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:09:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/05-eval-minutes.html trackbot
16:09:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:09:29 <RRSAgent> I see no action items