15:58:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:58:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/26-wai-wcag-irc
15:58:39 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
15:58:47 <Joshue> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:58:51 <Zakim> sorry, Joshue, I don't know what conference this is
15:58:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Joshue, AWK, jamesn, MichaelC, Peter_Thiessen, trackbot
15:58:53 <AWK> rrsagent, set logs world-visible (for groups with open proceedings)
15:58:53 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'set logs world-visible (for groups with open proceedings)', AWK.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:59:05 <AWK> meeting: WCAG Working Group Teleconference
15:59:14 <AWK> chair: AWK
16:00:32 <kathleen> kathleen has joined #wai-wcag
16:00:40 <AWK> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:00:40 <Zakim> sorry, AWK, I don't know what conference this is
16:00:41 <Zakim> On IRC I see kathleen, Zakim, RRSAgent, Joshue, AWK, jamesn, MichaelC, Peter_Thiessen, trackbot
16:00:53 <Joshue> zakim, this is WCAG
16:00:53 <Zakim> ok, Joshue; that matches WAI_WCAG()11:00AM
16:01:15 <MarcoZ> MarcoZ has joined #wai-wcag
16:01:21 <MichaelC> trackbot, start meeting
16:01:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:01:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
16:01:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM already started
16:01:26 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:01:26 <trackbot> Date: 26 November 2013
16:01:34 <Joshue> agenda + Update on techniques and understanding release schedule
16:01:39 <AWK> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:01:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, +1.617.766.aaaa, [IPcaller], +1.703.825.aabb, David_MacDonald, +1.910.278.aacc
16:01:44 <Joshue> agenda + Feedback on updated Techniques 5th November 2013 (#3 only) <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Nov5_2013/>
16:01:51 <Joshue> agenda + Feedback on public comments 26 November 2013 <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131126MiscItems/>
16:01:55 <MarcoZ> Hi all! Sorry can only join via IRC today.
16:01:55 <AWK> Zakim, aaaa is AWK
16:01:55 <Zakim> +AWK; got it
16:01:58 <Joshue> agenda + Kick-off review of Evaluation Methodology Note <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131126EM_Review/>
16:01:59 <AWK> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, AWK, [IPcaller], +1.703.825.aabb, David_MacDonald, +1.910.278.aacc
16:02:06 <Joshue> agenda +  ARIA Techniques review <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131126ARIA_Techniques/>
16:02:09 <Zakim> +??P10
16:02:15 <Joshue> agenda + Any volunteer to craft a proposed response for: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20130905/2866
16:02:22 <MichaelC> zakim, Ipcaller is Joshue_O_Connor
16:02:22 <Zakim> +Joshue_O_Connor; got it
16:02:22 <AWK> Zakim, IPCaller is Joshue
16:02:23 <Zakim> sorry, AWK, I do not recognize a party named 'IPCaller'
16:02:31 <MichaelC> zakim, aabb is Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:02:31 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea; got it
16:02:39 <MichaelC> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, AWK, Joshue_O_Connor, Katie_Haritos-Shea.a, David_MacDonald, +1.910.278.aacc, Michael_Cooper
16:02:46 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:02:46 <Zakim> Joshue_O_Connor should now be muted
16:02:57 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
16:03:02 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:03:03 <AWK> Zakim, aabb is Sailesh
16:03:03 <Zakim> sorry, AWK, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
16:03:07 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
16:03:11 <AWK> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, AWK, Joshue_O_Connor (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea.a, David_MacDonald, +1.910.278.aacc, Michael_Cooper
16:03:13 <MichaelC> zakim, aacc is Kathleen_Anderson
16:03:13 <Zakim> +Kathleen_Anderson; got it
16:03:19 <AWK> Zakim, aacc is Sailesh
16:03:19 <Zakim> sorry, AWK, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
16:03:24 <MichaelC> zakim, Katie_Haritos-Shea.a is Sailesh_Panchang
16:03:24 <Zakim> +Sailesh_Panchang; got it
16:03:25 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
16:03:45 <Zakim> +Kathy_Wahlbin
16:03:47 <AWK> Zakim, choose a victim
16:03:47 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Marc_Johlic
16:04:32 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
16:04:32 <Zakim> Joshue_O_Connor should no longer be muted
16:05:52 <AWK> ZAkim, take up Agenda
16:05:52 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up Agenda', AWK
16:06:02 <marcjohlic> scribe:  marcjohlic
16:06:03 <Joshue> zakim, take up item one
16:06:03 <Zakim> 'one' does not match any agenda item, Joshue
16:06:06 <AWK> take up next item
16:06:28 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:06:28 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, MichaelC
16:06:31 <MichaelC> zakim, take up item 1
16:06:31 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Update on techniques and understanding release schedule" taken up [from Joshue]
16:06:48 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:06:57 <marcjohlic> AWK:  About 4 months ago we discussed increasing the regularity of updating our documents.
16:07:14 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #WAI-WCAG
16:07:16 <marcjohlic> AWK:  Proposed every 6 months - so we are down to the wire in the next month
16:07:32 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:07:32 <Zakim> Joshue_O_Connor should now be muted
16:07:34 <marcjohlic> AWK:  We are up to date on comments - we have new techniques and modifications to techniques and failures.
16:08:18 <marcjohlic> AWK:  Our last update took a year and a half.  Would rather see us update more frequently and with less content (if that's what it takes)
16:08:18 <MarcoZ> Zakim: MarcoZ is Marco_Zehe
16:08:40 <marcjohlic> AWK:  We need to have everything agreed upon as a group (that will make it into the document) by the first week of January
16:09:06 <marcjohlic> AWK:  Some hot button topics that we have to come to agreement on w/i the next month (i.e. F65)
16:09:48 <marcjohlic> AWK:  If there are things that need to be discussed - things to be deleted - now is the the time to speak up.  Contribute your thoughts and text on the subject
16:10:32 <AWK> take up next item
16:10:46 <marcjohlic> zakim, take up item 2
16:10:46 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Feedback on updated Techniques 5th November 2013 (#3 only) <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Nov5_2013/>" taken up [from Joshue]
16:10:54 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
16:10:54 <Zakim> Joshue_O_Connor should no longer be muted
16:10:59 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Nov5_2013/
16:11:27 <marcjohlic> TOPIC:  3. Updated technique Using the group role to identify related form controls
16:11:43 <marcjohlic> AWK:  No record of this one being resolved - but recall discussing this one.
16:12:24 <marcjohlic> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Sing_grouping_roles_to_identify_related_form_controls_when_using_fieldset-legend_is_not_practical
16:13:07 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_grouping_roles_to_identify_related_form_controls_when_using_fieldset-legend_is_not_practical
16:13:59 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013OctDec/0123.html
16:14:03 <MichaelC> regrets: Alan_Smith
16:14:36 <Loretta> What about Sailesh's comments at the end?
16:14:42 <marcjohlic> DM:  Have a third example that will be added
16:15:16 <marcjohlic> DM:  Added comments at end to remind us what needs to be changed.
16:15:26 <marcjohlic> JOC:  Leave this open
16:15:48 <marcjohlic> RESOLUTION:  Leave open
16:16:08 <AWK> take up next item
16:16:57 <marcjohlic> TOPIC:  2. LC-2865: Bad link in H42
16:17:06 <marcjohlic> RESOLUTION:  Accepted as proposed
16:17:17 <marcjohlic> TOPIC:  3. LC-2863: Edits to G73
16:17:31 <marcjohlic> RESOLUTION:  Accepted as proposed
16:17:43 <marcjohlic> TOPIC:  4. LC-2860: Techniques should be scoped by Success criteria
16:17:54 <marcjohlic> RESOLUTION:  Accepted as proposed
16:17:58 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:17:58 <Zakim> Joshue_O_Connor should now be muted
16:18:06 <marcjohlic> TOPIC:  1. LC-2864: Bad link in understanding 1.3.1
16:18:18 <marcjohlic> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131126MiscItems/results#x2673
16:19:07 <marcjohlic> RESOLUTION:  Accepted as amended
16:19:21 <marcjohlic> TOPIC:  5. LC-2868: links with different text and 2.4.4
16:19:35 <marcjohlic> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131126MiscItems/results#x2868
16:22:58 <Joshue> zakim, queue?
16:22:58 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:23:04 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
16:23:04 <Zakim> Joshue_O_Connor should no longer be muted
16:23:42 <AWK> "It is a best practice for links with the same destination to have the same descriptions (and this is a requirement per Success Criterion 3.2.4 for pages in a set). It is also a best practice for links with different purposes and destinations to have different descriptions."
16:23:48 <marcjohlic> AWK:  Based on Michael's comment and my comment on Michael's comment I have updated the record
16:24:11 <marcjohlic> RESOLUTION:  Accepted as amended
16:24:47 <AWK> take up next item
16:24:53 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:24:53 <Zakim> Joshue_O_Connor should now be muted
16:25:10 <AWK> Zakim, Agenda?
16:25:10 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
16:25:11 <Zakim> 4. Kick-off review of Evaluation Methodology Note <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131126EM_Review/> [from Joshue]
16:25:11 <Zakim> 5. ARIA Techniques review <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131126ARIA_Techniques/> [from Joshue]
16:25:11 <Zakim> 6. Any volunteer to craft a proposed response for: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20130905/2866 [from Joshue]
16:26:21 <marcjohlic> AWK:  Awaiting EM TF sending the updated Note
16:26:41 <Joshue> zakim, queue?
16:26:41 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:27:34 <marcjohlic> AWK:  Initial response date was set for Dec 10.  The ask that we review this within two weeks.  Depending one when we get the updated Note that date could shift
16:27:34 <AWK> take up next item
16:27:45 <marcjohlic> AWK:  Keep an eye out for survey on the note
16:28:20 <marcjohlic> TOPIC:  7. ARIA Technique: ARIA3: Identifying valid range information with the aria-valuemin and aria-valuemax properties
16:29:09 <marcjohlic> RESOLUTION:  Accepted as proposed
16:29:13 <marcjohlic> TOPIC:  3. ARIA Technique: Using aria-label to provide an invisible label where a visible label cannot be used
16:29:24 <marcjohlic> RESOLUTION:  Accepted as proposed
16:29:36 <marcjohlic> TOPIC:  1. ARIA Technique: Failure of Success Criterion 1.3.1 due to the use of role=presentation on content which conveys semantic information
16:30:46 <marcjohlic> AWK:  Mostly editorial comment - to Test procedure to break it into 2 steps
16:31:13 <Joshue> zakim, queue?
16:31:13 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:31:31 <marcjohlic> AWK:  Making the quick change to the procedure in the wiki
16:31:33 <marcjohlic> RESOLUTION:  Accepted as amended
16:31:44 <marcjohlic> TOPIC:  2. ARIA Technique: Using aria-describedby to provide descriptions of objects
16:33:07 <David> +1
16:34:26 <Joshue> +q
16:34:32 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
16:34:32 <Zakim> Joshue_O_Connor should no longer be muted
16:34:33 <marcjohlic> KW:  As written it appears that the Test procedure suggests that the aria-describedby attribute on it's own describes the object - but you could have the case of an alt attribute in addition (on an image)
16:34:41 <Joshue> -q
16:34:47 <Joshue> +q to agree with Kathy
16:35:38 <marcjohlic> KW:  In example 1 we would need "Lady McBeth" in the <p> element to pass the test procedure
16:37:25 <David> Ensure that the describedby along with with other attributes adequately provide an alternative to the omafe
16:37:46 <David> s/omafe/image
16:37:53 <Joshue> _q
16:37:57 <Joshue> -q
16:38:35 <AWK> ack sa
16:38:43 <MarcoZ> aria-describedby should not be valid if no alt attribute on the image is present first. It needs to have an accessible name more than it needs an accessible description.
16:39:12 <Joshue> +q
16:40:17 <MarcoZ> Correct.
16:40:19 <Joshue> An img URL is tab navigable
16:41:30 <Joshue> sry, I thought it was an image link - that there was a href.
16:41:48 <Joshue> -q
16:42:44 <Joshue> +q
16:42:53 <AWK> ack jo
16:42:53 <Joshue> -q
16:44:08 <marcjohlic> JOC:  Could add a note regarding quirks in AT - but should keep example as clean and simple as possible
16:44:23 <Joshue> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-describedby_to_provide_descriptions_of_objects
16:45:58 <marcjohlic> DM:  Copying the example code and putting into webpage to test it
16:46:04 <Joshue> zakim, queue?
16:46:04 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:47:22 <Kathy> q+
16:47:53 <Joshue> I think we should say something about the combined @alt and aria-describedby
16:47:54 <marcjohlic> KW:  More than just images though
16:48:29 <Kathy> Examine whether the object name or text equivalent and text description accurately describes or serves the equivalent purpose to the object.
16:48:54 <Kathy> q-
16:48:54 <Joshue> +1 to that adding combined
16:48:56 <marcjohlic> DM:  "Ensure that the describedby along with with other attributes adequately provide an alternative to the image"
16:49:13 <Joshue> Examine whether the combined object name or text equivalent and text description accurately describes or serves the equivalent purpose to the object.
16:49:14 <MarcoZ> What I said about images generally is valid for all elements. aria-describedby, or other methods of providing an AccDescription, are always an addendum to the primary information. AccName is always first.
16:51:20 <marcjohlic> DM:  Tested fine in Firefox
16:52:08 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
16:52:31 <marcjohlic> DM:  IE does not announce the aria-describedby
16:52:33 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:52:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/26-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:52:52 <SPanchang> SPanchang has joined #wai-wcag
16:54:34 <MarcoZ> dm, you may need to test with different screen readers. In IE, they all have to do their own evaluation due to very limited exposure to MSAA, and no IAccessible2 support. So, NVDA may announce something JAWS doesn't, or vice versa.
16:55:08 <Joshue> AWK: Ok, thats all set.
16:55:13 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:55:13 <Zakim> Joshue_O_Connor should now be muted
16:55:15 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:55:15 <Zakim> Joshue_O_Connor was already muted, Joshue
16:55:38 <Joshue> AWK: We know that UA support is changing but this is set as a way to provide a long description?
16:55:51 <Joshue> AWK: Anyone have any thoughts on this as UA support needs to improve?
16:56:29 <Joshue> DMacD: IEs not doing it, in aViewer its not showing.
16:56:40 <Joshue> JN: I don't use that, I look at FF and dig under the hood.
16:57:03 <MarcoZ> +1
16:57:04 <Joshue> DMacD: Can you have a look James?
16:57:16 <Joshue> <discussion on the tools of the trade>
16:58:44 <David> http://davidmacd.com/test/discribedby.html
16:58:48 <Joshue> AWK: Reads UA notes..
16:58:56 <Joshue> KW: They are consistent
16:59:07 <Joshue> AWK: But is our text correct?
16:59:31 <Joshue> KW: aria-describedby is flakey - its not consistent
16:59:53 <Joshue> AWK: That comes accross in UA notes - thoughts?
17:00:18 <Joshue> Kathleen: Maybe we shouldn't have combination in there.
17:00:19 <Joshue> +q
17:00:25 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
17:00:25 <Zakim> Joshue_O_Connor should no longer be muted
17:00:50 <Joshue> AWK: If that was the case should we change the example - so it provides a redundant version of the @alt.
17:01:02 <Joshue> Kathleen: Thats what I was going to suggest
17:01:21 <Joshue> AWK: Kathy?
17:02:39 <Joshue> KW: I don't advocate to my clients that they do this, but as an alternative to longdesc this is the way to go.
17:03:30 <Joshue> s/as an alternative to longdesc this is the way to go./as an alternative to a longdesc mechanism this is the way to go.
17:04:16 <Joshue> KW: Is this going to be sufficient or advisory?
17:04:22 <Joshue> AWK: Loretta?
17:04:33 <Joshue> LGR: Its a fuzzy area.
17:05:15 <jamesn> david, the accessible relation is exposed in FF
17:05:30 <Joshue> LGR: With what the threshold should be, we published the longdesc one as a sufficient technique even though there was little support so we moved it to advisory. So there isn't a policy about how much support there needs to be.
17:06:07 <Joshue> AWK: So it comes down to how much difficulty there would be if someone relied on a sufficient technique for end users.
17:06:09 <Joshue> ack me
17:06:17 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
17:07:14 <Kathy> q+
17:07:15 <Joshue> zakim, queue?
17:07:16 <Zakim> I see Kathy on the speaker queue
17:07:22 <David> q+
17:07:31 <Joshue> ack Kathy
17:07:54 <jamesn> q?
17:07:55 <Joshue> KW: What would make this stronger is an example of a button or something else.
17:07:57 <jamesn> q+
17:08:14 <Joshue> KW: So it provides an object other than an image - we are getting stuck on support for images.
17:08:31 <Joshue> JN: I'll respond to that - we originally had that.
17:08:47 <Joshue> KW: Can we change the title?
17:08:55 <jamesn> ack me
17:09:01 <Joshue> AWK: Lets change it to images?
17:09:15 <Joshue> KW: Yes, then you can change number 3 in test procedure.
17:09:19 <Joshue> zakim, queue?
17:09:19 <Zakim> I see David, Sailesh_Panchang on the speaker queue
17:09:31 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
17:09:31 <Zakim> Joshue_O_Connor should now be muted
17:09:34 <Joshue> ack David
17:10:19 <Joshue> DMacD: Do we want to go where the puck should be or where it is, in terms of a11y support?
17:10:39 <Joshue> KW: Thats very interesting, my clients are not looking just at WCAG but the UA.
17:10:53 <Joshue> KW: So if we have sufficient techniques we should have good support.
17:11:11 <AWK> ack sail
17:11:11 <Joshue> KW: People rely on the sufficient techniques.
17:11:48 <Joshue> SP: There was a comment on flakey aria-desc support- I don't believe that. If used for things that are not UI controls then there is a problem.
17:12:09 <Joshue> SP: So when using ARIA for rich UI stuff, it will work not ordinary HTML elements.
17:12:19 <Joshue> zakim, queue?
17:12:20 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
17:12:41 <Joshue> AWK: Now the procedure etc is current with what we have been discussing.
17:13:16 <Joshue> AWK: There is still some debate around what Sailesh is saying. My understanding is that aria-desc is to be used with images.
17:13:20 <Joshue> AWK: Thoughts?
17:14:57 <marcjohlic> DM:  Good debate, but I don't know that the ARIA spec is explicit on that it's just for interactive elements
17:15:40 <marcjohlic> JN:  Spec editors would say that it is not the intent that this would be for interactive elements.  If that's unclear we should point out where in the spec and get it corrected as that's not its intention
17:16:05 <marcjohlic> AWK:  Doesn't appear that ARIA Best Practices document has any issue with using it on images
17:16:29 <Joshue> +1 to accept
17:17:00 <marcjohlic> DM:  Are User Agent Notes up to date?
17:17:18 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-describedby_to_provide_descriptions_of_images#Using_ARIA_Describedby_to_provide_descriptions_of_images
17:17:18 <marcjohlic> AWK:  Looks like last update was from David - can you check them for updates
17:17:36 <marcjohlic> JN:  Be sure to check latest version of NVDA is included
17:18:18 <marcjohlic> DM:  Looks like User Agent Notes need to be updated as it shows IE works
17:18:33 <marcjohlic> KW:  Found that IE is flakey on this - works at times and not others
17:19:43 <marcjohlic> AWK:  David will update UA Notes
17:19:51 <marcjohlic> RESOLUTION:  Accepted as amended pending David's updates
17:20:17 <AWK> ACTION: David to update user agent notes for http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-describedby_to_provide_descriptions_of_images#Using_ARIA_Describedby_to_provide_descriptions_of_images
17:20:17 <trackbot> 'David' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., dmacdona, dtodd2).
17:20:22 <AWK> dmacdona
17:20:25 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
17:20:25 <Zakim> Joshue_O_Connor should no longer be muted
17:21:07 <marcjohlic> JN:  All techniques sent to WG the TF believes are Sufficient
17:21:08 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
17:21:08 <Zakim> Joshue_O_Connor should now be muted
17:21:17 <AWK> Zakim, Agenda?
17:21:17 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
17:21:18 <Zakim> 5. ARIA Techniques review <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131126ARIA_Techniques/> [from Joshue]
17:21:18 <Zakim> 6. Any volunteer to craft a proposed response for: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20130905/2866 [from Joshue]
17:21:31 <David> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_grouping_roles_to_identify_related_form_controls_when_using_fieldset-legend_is_not_practical
17:21:55 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Nov5_2013
17:22:09 <marcjohlic> TOPIC:  3. [Still open, discussed on 26th Nov] Updated technique Using the group role to identify related form controls
17:22:16 <marcjohlic> Returning to this earlier topic
17:23:03 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
17:23:03 <Zakim> Joshue_O_Connor should no longer be muted
17:23:03 <marcjohlic> DM:  Added an Example 3 to http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Sing_grouping_roles_to_identify_related_form_controls_when_using_fieldset-legend_is_not_practical
17:23:04 <Joshue> +q
17:23:20 <Joshue> ack me
17:24:20 <marcjohlic> JOC:  Does Example 3 need the onkeydown (js) pieces - is it necessary?
17:25:46 <marcjohlic> SP:  Included to keep it as a complete example
17:26:29 <marcjohlic> JOC:  Maybe a note added that listeners / js may be needed to make it a complete example, but just keeping parts it may not be as clear
17:27:04 <marcjohlic> AWK:  My inclination is to keep example shown very simple, and then include a working example that can be referred to
17:27:34 <jamesn> q+
17:28:37 <Joshue> zakim, jame
17:28:37 <Zakim> I don't understand 'jame', Joshue
17:28:44 <Loretta> I will go clean up the code formatting.
17:28:45 <Joshue> ack james
17:29:53 <Zakim> -Joshue_O_Connor
17:31:04 <marcjohlic> SP:  Intent of fieldset in html is that it brings in the styling that demonstrates the objects are a group of fields
17:32:47 <marcjohlic> AWK:  Looks like we need to clean up a couple of the examples on this one
17:33:21 <marcjohlic> AWK:  Need to clear up the "when fieldset - legend is not practical" in title - if that is really needed.
17:35:50 <marcjohlic> JN:  Let's schedule to do this one late in the meeting - can't attend earlier.
17:35:51 <Zakim> -Kathy_Wahlbin
17:36:09 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
17:38:49 <AWK> Regrets: Alan, Kerstin, Bruce
17:39:08 <AWK> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:39:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/26-wai-wcag-minutes.html AWK
17:42:49 <Peter_Thiessen> Peter_Thiessen has joined #wai-wcag
17:44:15 <AWK> zakim, who is on the call
17:44:15 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the call', AWK
17:44:19 <AWK> zakim, who is on the call?
17:44:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see Katie_Haritos-Shea, AWK, Sailesh_Panchang, David_MacDonald, Kathleen_Anderson, Marc_Johlic, [IPcaller], James_Nurthen
17:47:22 <AWK> zakim, bye
17:47:22 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Katie_Haritos-Shea, +1.617.766.aaaa, +1.703.825.aabb, David_MacDonald, +1.910.278.aacc, AWK, Michael_Cooper, Joshue_O_Connor,
17:47:22 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-wcag
17:47:25 <Zakim> ... Kathleen_Anderson, Sailesh_Panchang, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, [IPcaller], James_Nurthen
17:47:41 <AWK> rrsagent, please part
17:47:41 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/26-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
17:47:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: David to update user agent notes for http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-describedby_to_provide_descriptions_of_images#Using_ARIA_Describedby_to_provide_descriptions_of_images [1]
17:47:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/26-wai-wcag-irc#T17-20-17