14:52:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #gld
14:52:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/21-gld-irc
14:52:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:52:29 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GLD
14:52:29 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
14:52:30 <trackbot> Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference
14:52:30 <trackbot> Date: 21 November 2013
14:58:20 <Makx> Makx has joined #GLD
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15:00:38 <james> james has joined #gld
15:00:47 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #gld
15:01:04 <Zakim> T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has now started
15:01:09 <Zakim> +bhyland
15:01:11 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:01:29 <olyerickson> olyerickson has joined #gld
15:02:32 <Zakim> + +3539149aaaa
15:02:42 <Zakim> +HadleyBeeman
15:02:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:46 <fadmaa> Zakim, aaa is me
15:02:46 <Zakim> sorry, fadmaa, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
15:02:47 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
15:02:50 <PhilA> zakim, ipcaller is me
15:02:50 <Zakim> +PhilA; got it
15:02:55 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> JoaoPauloAlmeida has joined #gld
15:02:57 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:59 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
15:03:03 <fadmaa> Zakim, 3539149 is me
15:03:03 <Zakim> sorry, fadmaa, I do not recognize a party named '3539149'
15:03:07 <olyerickson> zakim, [ipcaller] is me.
15:03:07 <Zakim> +olyerickson; got it
15:03:09 <fadmaa> Zakim, +3539149 is me
15:03:09 <Zakim> +fadmaa; got it
15:03:18 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:03:22 <Biplav> Biplav has joined #gld
15:03:43 <Makx> Makx has joined #gld
15:03:54 <Zakim> + +33.4.93.00.aabb
15:04:05 <gatemezi> gatemezi has joined #gld
15:04:26 <Makx> no voice for me today
15:04:36 <NotVeryWellPhilA> zakim, aabb is gatemezi
15:04:36 <Zakim> +gatemezi; got it
15:04:37 <Zakim> +??P26
15:04:42 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> ??P26 is me
15:04:48 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, ??P26 is me
15:04:48 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it
15:04:51 <fadmaa> Zakim, mute me
15:04:51 <Zakim> fadmaa should now be muted
15:05:00 <gatemezi> scribe:gatemezi
15:05:06 <HadleyBeeman> http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/gld/2013-11-14
15:05:13 <gatemezi> chair:HadleyBeeman
15:05:17 <HadleyBeeman> proposed:  accept minutes of last weeks meeting?
15:05:24 <HadleyBeeman> s/weeks/week's
15:05:26 <DaveReynolds> +1
15:05:31 <olyerickson> +1
15:05:38 <cygri> cygri has joined #gld
15:05:42 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> wasn't there either
15:06:10 <HadleyBeeman> +1
15:06:15 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:06:30 <fadmaa> +1
15:06:41 <HadleyBeeman> resolved: accept minutes of last weeks meeting
15:06:51 <gatemezi> Resolved: meeting accepted of last week
15:06:55 <Biplav> Biplav - I am on IRC and having trouble connecting over phone. Trying.
15:06:58 <DaveReynolds> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Data_Cube_Implementations
15:06:59 <gatemezi> Topic: Data Cube
15:07:22 <tinagheen> tinagheen has joined #gld
15:07:34 <gatemezi> DaveReynolds: Haave received new implementations ...
15:07:36 <cygri> zakim, code?
15:07:37 <Zakim> the conference code is 45394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri
15:07:54 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:07:59 <Zakim> +[LC]
15:08:02 <gatemezi> ...and provided link on that, some to be published by December
15:08:02 <Zakim> +??P32
15:08:07 <tinagheen> Zakim, [LC] is me
15:08:07 <Zakim> +tinagheen; got it
15:08:08 <DeirdreLee> DeirdreLee has joined #gld
15:08:09 <gatemezi> s/haave/have
15:08:10 <Zakim> + +91.80.67.84.aacc
15:08:28 <Biplav> +91.80.67.84.aacc is me (Biplav)
15:08:31 <PhilA> That's fabulous news - all terms used!
15:08:39 <gatemezi> ...Plan to go ahead for Transition
15:08:44 <PhilA> Serious kudos to Dave on that
15:09:22 <cygri> zakim, ??P32 is me
15:09:22 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
15:09:41 <gatemezi> ..Still have to track the optional terms, without any criteria there.. So fine for that.
15:10:09 <cygri> q+
15:10:39 <PhilA> zakim, aacc is Biplav
15:10:39 <Zakim> sorry, PhilA, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
15:10:57 <PhilA> zakim, ipcaller is DeirdreLee
15:10:57 <Zakim> +DeirdreLee; got it
15:10:57 <HadleyBeeman> ack cygri
15:11:41 <gatemezi> cygri asks what is the timeline for documentation report? Have to check all the integrity constraints?
15:12:20 <gatemezi> Dave: a promise to have implementations by the end of November
15:12:38 <gatemezi> Topic: Org
15:12:48 <DaveReynolds> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/ORG_Implementations
15:13:10 <gatemezi> DaveReynolds: Just one more implementation added since last week
15:14:07 <DaveReynolds> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/ORG_PR_transition
15:14:33 <gatemezi> ..current state is that 5 terms are not really used , and updated with some evidence of usage terms
15:15:07 <PhilA> +1 to Sandro
15:16:08 <gatemezi> Sandro: What could be done for the terms not used ?
15:16:44 <gatemezi> DaveReynolds: We can still go ahead at the current state.. approved by Sandro
15:18:10 <gatemezi> Phil: Do we have assurance that those terms would be implemented ?
15:19:42 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman: So we've agreed to take this to transition as-is and try to get it through.
15:19:58 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida
15:20:10 <Zakim> +??P26
15:20:15 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, ??P26 is me
15:20:15 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it
15:20:15 <gatemezi> DaveReynolds : use Turtle for the example, so change the section to be non normative, for dependence with the other group
15:21:47 <PhilA> Note on Normative Refs might be relevant http://www.w3.org/2013/09/normative-references
15:22:09 <HadleyBeeman> from TPAC
15:22:34 <gatemezi> PhilA gives a reference on normative from TPAC, see http://www.w3.org/2013/09/normative-references
15:23:01 <Zakim> -cygri
15:23:16 <gatemezi> Topic: Best Practices
15:23:44 <PhilA> Boris sent his regrets earlier
15:24:23 <gatemezi> Bhyland: work ongoing on the doc
15:24:32 <Zakim> +??P3
15:24:37 <cygri> zakim, ??P3 is me
15:24:37 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
15:24:47 <PhilA> procurement section removed!
15:24:53 <bhyland> Topic: Procurement in BP
15:24:55 <gatemezi> current status of the doc here https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/bp/index.html
15:24:56 <bhyland> See charter http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/charter
15:25:04 <PhilA> This is consistent with our resolution at the f2f http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2013-04-11#resolution_2
15:27:21 <bhyland> Procurement section has been entirely removed per past GLD WG discussion circa April 2013.  Editors have reflected the WG's decision to remove it. 
15:29:40 <gatemezi> bhyland : the work here could be used as input for any other WG to make a more stable document
15:30:03 <makx> makx has joined #gld
15:30:06 <PhilA> zakim, mute cygri
15:30:06 <Zakim> cygri should now be muted
15:30:12 <gatemezi> zakim, who is speaking?
15:30:22 <Zakim> gatemezi, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: bhyland (35%)
15:31:01 <gatemezi> HadleyBeeman : a new timeline for the document?
15:31:20 <gatemezi> ...or deadline?
15:31:21 <HadleyBeeman> 1.  Editors revise and draft until 28 November.2.  One week for working group comments and discussion (until 5 December)**
15:31:21 <HadleyBeeman> 3.  One week for the editors to revise the document, respond to feedback, and return new draft to the working group for final review (5-12 December)
15:31:21 <HadleyBeeman> 4.  The working group resolves to publish: 12 December
15:31:33 <HadleyBeeman> Does that look right, bhyland?
15:32:09 <bhyland> yes, thanks/
15:32:22 <HadleyBeeman> issue-6?
15:32:22 <trackbot> issue-6 -- How should publishers figure out good URIs for properties with non-literal ranges? -- raised
15:32:22 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/6
15:33:04 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> it looks like it's a very specific issue to be in the same level as the other sections in BP... (1.8 How should publishers figure out good URIs for properties with non-literal ranges?)
15:34:43 <fadmaa> Zakim, unmute me
15:34:43 <Zakim> fadmaa should no longer be muted
15:34:51 <gatemezi> Topic: DCAT
15:34:57 <fadmaa> https://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/70
15:35:02 <gatemezi> fadmaa: 2 updates here
15:35:08 <fadmaa> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-comments/2013Nov/0026.html
15:35:26 <fadmaa> """That's right, a downloadURL is a legal accessURL, but we don't want to enforce that as an entailment. Profiles of dcat may, for example, wish to impose a stronger separation where they only use accessURL for non-download locations, and we don't want to preclude such usage. We'll clarify the editorial text.""
15:35:30 <gatemezi> ...discussion around issue-70, and see Dave email
15:35:37 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida
15:35:39 <gatemezi> s/Dave/DaveReynolds
15:35:50 <Zakim> +??P26
15:35:57 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, ??P26 is me
15:35:57 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it
15:36:45 <olyerickson> Dave's second suggestion had the correct balance (we feel)
15:36:46 <DaveReynolds> Fine by me :), feel free to rephase as appropriate, was just informal expression.
15:36:49 <gatemezi> proposal: use option 2 of DaveReynolds email as official answer on DCAT
15:37:50 <makx> option 2 +1
15:37:51 <Biplav> Biplav has joined #gld
15:39:44 <Zakim> -cygri
15:40:11 <gatemezi> fadmaa still have to discuss on versioning
15:40:26 <Zakim> -bhyland
15:40:51 <HadleyBeeman> phila: didn't Antoine Issac reply?  I thought he was happy
15:41:02 <makx> makx has joined #gld
15:41:13 <Zakim> +bhyland
15:41:16 <PhilA> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-wg/2013Nov/0002.html Antoine's mail
15:41:46 <olyerickson> He's happy (at least according to that email)
15:41:51 <PhilA> q+
15:42:01 <gatemezi> fadmaa will update the page accordingly
15:42:22 <gatemezi> s/page/page in wiki for comments
15:42:29 <Zakim> +??P36
15:42:36 <cygri> zakim, ??P36 is me
15:42:36 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
15:42:37 <PhilA> ack me
15:43:13 <gatemezi> PhilA raises the worry of someone asking for putting more domain, range on properties
15:43:37 <fadmaa> q+
15:43:45 <olyerickson> +1 in support of PhilA's reluctance to specify domains and ranges
15:43:51 <fadmaa> ack me
15:43:58 <gatemezi> PhilA asks if we should have more specific domain, range
15:44:07 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> although restricting the usage, it facilitates interoperability
15:44:30 <gatemezi> +1 to add more domain, range
15:44:32 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> but also being too liberal is a problem
15:44:36 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> you say nothing
15:44:48 <cygri> q+
15:45:22 <gatemezi> Zakim, who is speaking?
15:45:23 <PhilA> ack cygri
15:45:23 <HadleyBeeman> ack cygri
15:45:29 <olyerickson> Hard to hear cygri
15:45:33 <Zakim> gatemezi, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: olyerickson (38%), cygri (37%)
15:45:44 <olyerickson> mute me.
15:45:50 <olyerickson> zakim, mute me.
15:45:50 <Zakim> olyerickson should now be muted
15:45:53 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> This needs to be decided for each property, not in generael
15:46:27 <sandro> +1    that's what I meant
15:46:35 <gatemezi> cygri: there is a couple of properties saying in the text the range, but without explicitly adding in the vocabulary
15:46:35 <PhilA> I have an example - 'keyword' which is defined as 'A keyword or tag describing the dataset.'
15:46:57 <DaveReynolds> +1 to cygri, the formal declaration should match the textual definition,
15:47:03 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1 to cygri
15:47:35 <makx> +1
15:47:38 <olyerickson> zakim, unmute me.
15:47:38 <Zakim> olyerickson should no longer be muted
15:48:22 <gatemezi> What about the diagram showing the relationships?
15:48:27 <olyerickson> q+
15:48:32 <fadmaa> q+
15:48:35 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1 to sandro on the comment that quality in ontology is improved by considering the domain and ranges
15:48:36 <HadleyBeeman> ack oly
15:50:10 <gatemezi> olyerickson: we have to help users adopting the vocab
15:50:14 <fadmaa> ack me
15:50:14 <olyerickson> q-
15:50:41 <gatemezi> s/generael/general
15:51:16 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida
15:51:24 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> the call drop
15:51:30 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> sorry about that
15:51:35 <gatemezi> fadmaa: I prefer not to restrict things, but can add more specifications
15:51:56 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> I was saying that the question is whether the property is meaningful without a restriction of domain and range
15:52:21 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> say, e.g., dateOfBirth is clearly something that you should restrict to make it meaningul
15:52:31 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> for some reason I can't get back on the call
15:52:32 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> ...
15:52:56 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA:  I'll taken an action to read through the turtle schema and the original comment, and see if there is a domain or range not specifed — that it may be useful to do so.  If so, I'll tell the mailing list.
15:53:07 <gatemezi> Zakim, who's present?
15:53:07 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, gatemezi.
15:53:15 <HadleyBeeman> … Adding a domain or range is editorial; removing them may be substantive changes.
15:53:34 <PhilA> Thanks JoaoPauloAlmeida - helpful comment
15:53:35 <gatemezi> Zakim, who is present?
15:53:35 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, gatemezi.
15:53:42 <PhilA> zakm, who is here?
15:53:48 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
15:53:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see james, fadmaa, HadleyBeeman, PhilA, olyerickson, DaveReynolds, gatemezi (muted), Sandro, DeirdreLee, tinagheen, biplav, bhyland, cygri
15:53:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see makx, Biplav, DeirdreLee, tinagheen, cygri, gatemezi, JoaoPauloAlmeida, olyerickson, DaveReynolds, james, fadmaa, PhilA, RRSAgent, Zakim, HadleyBeeman, bhyland,
15:53:51 <Zakim> ... TallTed, trackbot, sandro
15:54:10 <gatemezi> zakim, who has sent regrets?
15:54:10 <Zakim> sorry, gatemezi, I do not recognize a party named 'who'
15:55:05 <HadleyBeeman> Cygri:  Adding a domain type, by definition, is a change.  Stating a domain just tags the use of the domain of being of a particular class.
15:55:20 <HadleyBeeman> PhilA:  Does it help to declare a domain?  What do you gain by doing that?
15:55:21 <gatemezi> s/Cygri/cygri
15:55:43 <HadleyBeeman> Cygri:  Then an inference engine can work with it.
15:56:12 <HadleyBeeman> … We may have to look on a case-by-case basis
15:56:27 <fadmaa> +1 to looking into them case by case
15:56:38 <gatemezi> PhilA: need to go through the schema to see if there is ambiguity to specify domain and range
15:57:21 <Biplav> +1 for looking on case by case. domain-range helps but we should not insist at the cost of being overly restrictive.
15:57:51 <gatemezi> PhilA takes an action for that
15:57:54 <Zakim> -cygri
15:58:03 <olyerickson> Also implementation report from WHOI
15:58:04 <PhilA> action: PhilA to review domains and ranges as implied/stated by the spec and encoded in the schema
15:58:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-155 - Review domains and ranges as implied/stated by the spec and encoded in the schema [on Phil Archer - due 2013-11-28].
15:58:04 <gatemezi> fadmaa is working on 2 implementations of DCAT
15:58:37 <Zakim> -DeirdreLee
15:58:53 <gatemezi> olyerickson looking for another example
15:59:14 <Zakim> -biplav
15:59:29 <gatemezi> ...and have to state the specific properties used by that given implementation
15:59:51 <gatemezi> zakim, who is here?
15:59:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see james, fadmaa, HadleyBeeman, PhilA, olyerickson, DaveReynolds, gatemezi (muted), Sandro, tinagheen, bhyland
15:59:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see makx, DeirdreLee, tinagheen, cygri, gatemezi, JoaoPauloAlmeida, olyerickson, DaveReynolds, james, fadmaa, PhilA, RRSAgent, Zakim, HadleyBeeman, bhyland, TallTed,
15:59:53 <Zakim> ... trackbot, sandro
16:00:39 <Zakim> +??P36
16:00:47 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, ??P36 is me
16:00:48 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it
16:02:12 <gatemezi> HadleyBeeman, do we have enough information for exit criteria for WHOI implementation?
16:02:22 <HadleyBeeman> Our CR exit criteria for DCAT: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_CR_transition#Implementations
16:02:54 <Zakim> -bhyland
16:03:23 <Zakim> -tinagheen
16:03:50 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> JoaoPauloAlmeida has left #gld
16:04:18 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> JoaoPauloAlmeida has joined #gld
16:04:27 <Zakim> -olyerickson
16:04:53 <HadleyBeeman> action: john erickson put a paragraph into the mailing list to explain how the WHOI report helps us meet the CR criteria
16:04:53 <trackbot> 'john' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., olyerickson, jgoodwin, jsherida).
16:04:59 <gatemezi> fadmaa feeling good enough to go through DCAT procedure
16:05:06 <gatemezi> ..on exit criteria
16:05:16 <gatemezi> thanks all!
16:05:18 <Zakim> -james
16:05:19 <james> james has left #gld
16:05:20 <Zakim> -HadleyBeeman
16:05:21 <Zakim> -PhilA
16:05:21 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:05:23 <Zakim> -fadmaa
16:05:23 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds
16:05:23 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> bye
16:05:25 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida
16:05:39 <PhilA> trackbot end meeeting
16:05:39 <trackbot> Sorry, PhilA, I don't understand 'trackbot end meeeting'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
16:05:40 <gatemezi> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
16:05:52 <PhilA> trackbot, end meeeting
16:05:52 <trackbot> Sorry, PhilA, I don't understand 'trackbot, end meeeting'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
16:06:08 <gatemezi> RSSAgent, generate minutes
16:06:26 <PhilA> zakim, bye
16:06:26 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were bhyland, james, +3539149aaaa, HadleyBeeman, PhilA, olyerickson, fadmaa, DaveReynolds, +33.4.93.00.aabb, gatemezi, JoaoPauloAlmeida,
16:06:26 <Zakim> Zakim has left #gld
16:06:29 <Zakim> ... Sandro, tinagheen, +91.80.67.84.aacc, cygri, biplav, DeirdreLee
16:06:39 <PhilA> PhilA has left #gld
16:09:17 <gatemezi> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
16:09:27 <gatemezi> RRSAgent, generate minutes
16:09:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/21-gld-minutes.html gatemezi
16:09:37 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman has left #gld
16:12:34 <gatemezi> @Sandro, how to I get the final version of the minutes http://www.w3.org/2013/11/21-gld-minutes.html ?
16:13:01 <gatemezi> ..when looking at http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/gld/2013-11-21, it seems empty.. any help?
16:42:33 <olyerickson> olyerickson has left #gld
16:52:43 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has left #gld
17:16:11 <bhyland> bhyland has joined #gld