16:00:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
16:00:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/20-rdf-wg-irc
16:00:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:00:36 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
16:00:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
16:00:38 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
16:00:39 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
16:00:39 <trackbot> Date: 20 November 2013
16:01:26 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
16:02:04 <AndyS> zakim, this is 73394
16:02:04 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
16:02:08 <Zakim> +Guus
16:02:08 <markus> markus has joined #rdf-wg
16:02:15 <Guus> Guus has joined #rdf-wg
16:02:22 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see ericP, David_Wood, [IPcaller], Guus
16:02:29 <AndyS> zakim,ipCaller is me
16:02:29 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
16:02:38 <Guus> chair: Guus
16:02:41 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
16:02:41 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
16:02:43 <Zakim> +Ivan
16:02:47 <Zakim> +??P6
16:02:51 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P6
16:02:51 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
16:02:56 <ivan> zakim, mute me
16:02:59 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
16:03:32 <Zakim> +??P12
16:03:34 <markus> zakim, ??P12 is me
16:03:34 <Zakim> +markus; got it
16:03:35 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:04:28 <Zakim> +PatH
16:05:18 <Zakim> +FabGandon
16:05:29 <PatH> PatH has joined #rdf-wg
16:05:33 <Zakim> +??P14
16:05:46 <AZ> Zakim, ??P14 is me
16:05:47 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
16:06:04 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
16:06:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see ericP, David_Wood, AndyS, Guus, Ivan (muted), gkellogg, markus, Sandro, PatH, FabGandon, AZ
16:06:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see PatH, Guus, markus, AZ, Zakim, RRSAgent, gkellogg, AndyS, FabGandon, ivan, TallTed, manu, Arnaud, yvesr, davidwood, trackbot, sandro, ericP
16:07:30 <markus> scribe: markus
16:07:43 <ericP> +1
16:07:54 <PatH> +1
16:07:58 <markus> guus: propose to accept the minutes of last week's telecon
16:08:09 <markus> RESOLVED: accept minutes of last week's telecon
16:08:27 <Zakim> +Souri
16:08:41 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-wg
16:08:42 <markus> guus: there are 3 actions...
16:08:55 <Zakim> +Arnaud
16:09:26 <markus> ... all three actions are now done
16:09:33 <markus> ... objections?
16:10:12 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
16:10:14 <markus> ... we'll put ACTION-98 on the agenda next week
16:10:21 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:10:21 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
16:10:23 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
16:10:23 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
16:10:49 <markus> davidwood: I hope to have something for the next telecon regarding ACTION-193
16:11:31 <markus> guus: closing ACTION-268 (actions are for concrete actions)
16:12:03 <zwu2> zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
16:13:17 <Zakim> +zwu2
16:14:45 <PatH> I should be able to attend (from the USA)
16:15:07 <markus> guus: antoine, I suggest you include Sandro's boxed datasets to section 4 to your note
16:15:09 <AZ> yes, please send the link
16:15:25 <markus> ... section 3 looks very complete but section 4 needs more work
16:15:48 <markus> TOPIC: CR implementations
16:16:24 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #rdf-wg
16:16:53 <Zakim> +??P25
16:16:54 <markus> gkellogg: nothing new but the traffic on the mailing list suggests that people are working on implementations
16:17:02 <pchampin> zakim, ??P25 is me
16:17:02 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
16:17:41 <markus> ... we are also waiting for a couple of tests from, e.g., Peter Ansell
16:18:16 <markus> ... the reports haven't been updated yet
16:18:38 <markus> ... they don't contain the new tests
16:19:00 <markus> ... we have no implementations which pass the new tests yet
16:19:23 <markus> ... will re-generate the reports as soon as andy and I updated our implementations
16:19:44 <markus> guus: ok.. the only problem I see is the semantics test suite
16:19:55 <markus> ... peter approached a number of people
16:20:09 <markus> ... we could have a timing problem here.. we need to get this done till middle of december
16:20:52 <markus> ... someone willing or planning to do an implementation for the semantics tests?
16:22:54 <markus> ... if we make no progress till next week we may need to do some emergency actions, i.e., work ourselves on implementations
16:23:27 <markus> TOPIC: CR comments
16:23:40 <AndyS> q+
16:24:06 <markus> ericP: it's difficult to get reponses from commenters
16:25:09 <AndyS> Also reply re ISSUE-172
16:25:52 <PatH> +1 to not changing anything now.
16:29:04 <markus> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#dfn-rdf-term
16:30:49 <AZ> Henry Story has just sent RESOLVED
16:32:51 <AndyS> TriG / Bare collections http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0080.html
16:33:20 <markus> ACTION for davidwood to describe how SPARQL datasets relate to RDF datasets in RDF Concepts
16:33:20 <trackbot> Error finding 'for'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.
16:33:25 <markus> ACTION on davidwood to describe how SPARQL datasets relate to RDF datasets in RDF Concepts
16:33:25 <trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.
16:33:32 <markus> ACTION davidwood to describe how SPARQL datasets relate to RDF datasets in RDF Concepts
16:33:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-326 - Describe how sparql datasets relate to rdf datasets in rdf concepts [on David Wood - due 2013-11-27].
16:34:25 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Candidate_Recommendation_Comments#c3 marked resolved. now to pester David Robillard...
16:37:59 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-wg
16:39:04 <markus> gregg: I think TriG compatiblity with N3 is more on the syntactic level not semantic
16:39:17 <markus> andys: not sure.. it talks about provenance etc.
16:39:19 <PatH> Peter, do you have any news of progress on semantics text suite implementations?? We were discussing this earlier.
16:39:26 <Guus> this is not a WG requirement, so let's not spend too much time on it
16:39:42 <PatH> text/test
16:39:47 <markus> gregg: a solution would be to disallow bare graphs
16:40:16 <PatH> graph modesty should be accepted by all civilized people.
16:40:20 <markus> guus: how much time do we wanna spend on this? it's not a WG requirement
16:40:37 <markus> andys: I propose we do no nothing.. it's too late
16:41:01 <markus> sandro: we are not doing N3 so compatibility to Turtle is most important
16:41:14 <markus> ... we are moving towards SPARQL-style
16:41:32 <markus> ... at some point we should deprecate the other forms
16:41:36 <PatH> bare graphs and now content sniffing? This is getting out of hand.
16:42:02 <pfps> I haven't heard back from anyone on entailment implementations, except for initial ACKs.
16:42:09 <markus> gregg: a problem in practice is that sometimes it becomes very difficult to tell what format a file is in by just looking at its content
16:42:10 <PatH> OK tnx.
16:44:30 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0090.html
16:44:31 <markus> guus: TriG compatibility with N-Quads
16:44:55 <markus> andys: there's a proposed reply here http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0090.html
16:45:18 <markus> ... not really what the commenter asked for but should resolve the issue
16:45:37 <PatH> Is there a less squirrely change to the grammar that would get the quads he wants?
16:46:03 <markus> ... TriG and Turtle are "human-readable" formats.. N-Quads/N-Triples are intended for data dumps
16:46:11 <markus> guus: I can live with this proposed response
16:46:51 <markus> gkellogg: I agree with andy
16:47:25 <markus> path: I agree to but think we talk about "human readable" etc. in the response
16:47:39 <markus> s/agree to but/agree but/
16:48:02 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0094.html
16:48:49 <markus> andys: "Escaped characters in N-Triples" indirectly affects all syntaxes
16:49:08 <markus> ... I'm wondering if the change was intentional or if it was an editorial mistake
16:49:17 <markus> ... if we don't know.. we have to make a decision
16:50:18 <markus> ... we can be liberal.. counterargument: it introduces more ways to write the same thing
16:53:39 <markus> guus: we should be consistent across our syntaxes and we shouldn't introduce major design changes
16:53:47 <markus> ... I'll go with the majority
16:53:59 <markus> andys: I don't care.. I don't believe in canonical N-Triples
16:54:38 <markus> ... if we remove it it's a change to the CR docs so it's probably better to leave it as-is
16:55:23 <markus> gregg: should we add a syntax test or be completely silent on it?
16:55:34 <FabGandon> ok
16:55:52 <markus> andys: we should do nothing (it should have been a negative syntax test)
16:56:06 <markus> TOPIC: RDF Schema
16:56:13 <markus> TOPIC: RDF/XML
16:56:50 <FabGandon> Status
16:56:51 <FabGandon> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-RDF-XML
16:57:27 <AndyS> AndyS: do not want to add a negative syntax test for \' if we decide to not have \' formally in NT and Nq
16:57:43 <markus> FabGandon: 1-4 are done
16:57:56 <markus> ... 5-6 are open errata
16:58:10 <markus> ... I need someone else to take a look to make sure I don't make a mistake
16:58:52 <markus> ... 7 should probably not be done
16:58:54 <markus> ... 8 is done
17:00:54 <markus> ACTION guus to review proposed changes in http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-RDF-XML
17:00:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-327 - Review proposed changes in http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/tf-rdf-xml [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-11-27].
17:01:29 <markus> guus: we can only do this if we publish this as revised proposed recommendation in december
17:01:31 <Arnaud> sorry, got to go
17:01:35 <Zakim> -Arnaud
17:02:16 <markus> TOPIC: Primer
17:02:29 <markus> guus: any reviewers for primer?
17:02:47 <pchampin> I volunteer to review it
17:02:50 <PatH> I volunteer. Can I make some suggested edits to it?
17:03:49 <PatH> Thats where I will bite first :-)
17:04:15 <Zakim> -gkellogg
17:04:34 <Zakim> -FabGandon
17:04:59 <Zakim> -AndyS
17:05:11 <markus> TOPIC: RDF Schema
17:05:13 <markus> guus: RDF schema document is in good shape
17:05:25 <markus> ... there's a link with a diff to the previous version
17:05:35 <markus> zakim, who is making noise?
17:05:47 <Zakim> markus, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: markus (19%), PatH (82%)
17:05:52 <markus> zakim, mute PatH
17:05:52 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted
17:06:16 <markus> guus: I did a number of edits... could someone review them?
17:06:45 <markus> davidwood: I'll do as soon as I'm done with my other actions
17:07:17 <markus> guus: adjourned
17:07:20 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:07:22 <pfps> I looked over the initial set of edits to RDF Schema, and they all looked OK, I think.
17:07:23 <Zakim> -Souri
17:07:24 <Zakim> -Ivan
17:07:24 <Zakim> -David_Wood
17:07:25 <Zakim> -markus
17:07:26 <Zakim> -pchampin
17:07:28 <Zakim> -TallTed
17:07:29 <Zakim> -AZ
17:07:32 <Zakim> -PatH
17:07:34 <Zakim> -zwu2
17:07:36 <Zakim> -ericP
17:07:45 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting
17:07:45 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:07:45 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ericP, David_Wood, Guus, AndyS, Ivan, gkellogg, markus, Sandro, PatH, FabGandon, AZ, Souri, Arnaud, TallTed, zwu2, pchampin
17:07:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:07:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/20-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot
17:07:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:07:54 <RRSAgent> I see no action items