00:31:45 RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui 00:31:45 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/15-indie-ui-irc 00:31:47 RRSAgent, make logs public 00:31:49 Zakim, this will be INDIE 00:31:49 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()7:00PM scheduled to start 31 minutes ago 00:31:50 Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference 00:31:50 Date: 15 November 2013 00:31:54 meeting: IndieUI FtF Day 2 00:32:01 rrsagent, do not start a new log 00:32:05 chair: Janina_Sajka 00:32:17 agenda: http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013 00:33:18 kurosawa_ has joined #indie-ui 00:34:34 Judy has joined #indie-ui 00:53:42 zakim, call yellow_river_2 00:53:42 ok, MichaelC; the call is being made 00:53:43 WAI_Indie()7:00PM has now started 00:53:44 +Yellow_river_2 00:57:50 zakim, yellow has Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Jason_White, Markus_Gylling, Jeanne_Spellman, Takeshi_Kurosawa, Mary_Jo_Mueller 00:57:51 +Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Jason_White, Markus_Gylling, Jeanne_Spellman, Takeshi_Kurosawa, Mary_Jo_Mueller; got it 01:00:51 jasonjgw has joined #indie-ui 01:01:44 mgylling has joined #indie-ui 01:02:02 zakim, mary has left yellow 01:02:02 MichaelC, I was not aware that mary was in yellow 01:02:15 zakim, mary_jo_mueller has left yellow 01:02:16 -Mary_Jo_Mueller; got it 01:02:27 zakim, Jeanne_Spellman has left yellow 01:02:27 -Jeanne_Spellman; got it 01:08:05 jcraig has joined #indie-ui 01:08:27 Zakim, who is on the phone? 01:08:27 On the phone I see Yellow_river_2 01:08:28 Yellow_river_2 has Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Jason_White, Markus_Gylling, Takeshi_Kurosawa 01:09:53 +James_Craig 01:10:23 mz-modeltaxi has joined #indie-ui 01:11:55 scribe: jasonjgw 01:12:03 zakim, Katie_Haritos-Shea has entered yellow 01:12:03 +Katie_Haritos-Shea; got it 01:13:49 Is the first note under 3.3.3 clear? 01:14:19 Michael queries whether the target of the zoom or pan request events can be the screen (as well as objects). 01:15:02 James clarifies: pan moves the canvas; move moves the object on the canvas. 01:15:34 Michael suggests adding an introductory paragraph to the spec for each of these eventsw. 01:15:58 Michael moved to 3.4; he quotes his proposed requirement. 01:16:29 James suggests that the requirement specifically refer to custom scroll views. 01:17:27 3.5 UIValueChange request. 01:17:58 James clarifies that this is for custom fields that need to be set to specific values by the user. 01:18:34 Michael: provide a mechanism to adjust numeric values of custom range controls by small and large increments. 01:18:41 Ryladog has joined #indie-ui 01:19:01 Michael (following clarification): minimum or maximum values. 01:19:31 Michael: section 4 - feature detection. 01:20:02 ACTION: jcraig to clarify in events spec that ValueChangeRequest is specific to custom numeric range widgets 01:20:02 Created ACTION-73 - Clarify in events spec that valuechangerequest is specific to custom numeric range widgets [on James Craig - due 2013-11-22]. 01:20:44 James: provide a mechanism so that authors can determine whether any given UI event is implemented by the ua. 01:21:41 dsinger has joined #indie-ui 01:21:45 Michael: we have identified all of the requirements inherent in the spec; next we need to look at the requirements proposed in the wiki. 01:22:06 James suggests the action list as a source of requirements. 01:22:13 Janina recommends starting there. 01:22:21 https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2 01:23:47 Michael clarifies (responding to a question from James) that post-1.0 requirements should be documented somewhere. The details of how to publish will be worked out later, but it's helpful to identify all of them. 01:25:12 James: the concept of a secondary action (triggered, e.g., by right-click events, with/without modifier keys etc.), have been proposed. 01:25:52 James: context menu is the most common secondary action. 01:26:17 Michael formulates the requirement. 01:27:19 James: issue to coordinate with Web Apps working group. 01:27:45 Janina: we're doing that already. 01:28:01 Michael: proposes closing issue 5. 01:28:05 close issue-5 01:28:05 Closed issue-5. 01:28:33 James and Michael defer issue 7 for now. 01:29:06 James: media controls (actions 16, 17, 19, 20). 01:29:26 Michael: provide a way to access standard media controls - he formulates the proposal to capture this idea. 01:30:37 James and Michael clarify the list of media controls proposed. 01:31:25 They opt to mention minimum/maximum volume volume specifically as these are distinct from mute/unmute. 01:32:26 James (responding to Michael): suspend/resume needs clarification - may not be media-related. 01:32:52 Michael: provide a mechanism to suspend/resume an activity might be the requirement. 01:33:57 James notes that mute/unmute/volume can be accomplished by system-level controls and don't need cooperation from the application. 01:34:02 Would like to push 17, 19, and 20 to "future release" 01:34:09 action-25? 01:34:09 action-25 -- James Craig to Add markRequest with variant properties indicating "fromLast" (like Shift+click or select range from last mark) and "retainMarks" (like Mac Cmd+click or Win Ctrl+click meaning select in addition to) -- due 2012-11-09 -- OPEN 01:34:10 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/25 01:35:39 James: queries whether suspend/resume and volume should be deferred to post-1.0. 01:35:49 Janina suggests deferring them beyond 1.0. 01:36:11 It is proposed to re-categorize the issues in the issue tracker accordingly. 01:37:14 Michael clarifies that the Indie-UI events apply to technologies other than HTML 5 media elements. 01:37:58 James notes that if you're using HTML 5 audio/video, these events aren't needed, but if you're doing custom rendering of the video controls etc., then the new events would be required. 01:38:24 James: next/previous track are not proposed for inclusion. 01:38:47 s/inclusion/exclusion from 1.0/ 01:38:56 Michael: action 25 - mark request. 01:41:09 James: this is for marking/selecting an object, then performing an action on it, e.g., deletion. Drag and drop is one presentation of a variety of underlying operations. It can be analysed in terms of the concept of selecting something, then performing an action on whatever has been selected. Selection of multiple objects is the general case of this operation. 01:41:25 James would like to see this in 1.0. 01:42:18 He notes that there is inconsistency among operating systems as to the keyboard bindings of these operations. 01:43:08 Michael: action 53 - an activate request event to augment default action trigger. 01:44:02 James: example use case: slider on lock screen of a mobile device - the gesture to unlock the screen shouldn't be treated as an activation/click event. 01:44:24 Michael: queries what the requirement is. 01:44:51 James clarifies that it's the equivalent of a DOM activate event - also equivalent to click, which serves as the de facto activate event. 01:45:30 In some cases, it has been suggested, a click event isn't appropriate - using it would result in behaviour which is undesirable. 01:46:34 James: example - a slide to unlock gesture in a Web application. 01:47:26 Michael notes that the DOM activate event has been deprecated; this proposal would resurrect it and would require coordination. 01:48:19 James notes that there is a clear use case and that the click event should normally be used - this proposal applies where click is manifestly inappropriate. 01:48:36 James and Janina concur: this one is a candidate for 1.0. 01:48:51 action 57: help and main focus requests. 01:48:51 Error finding '57'. You can review and register nicknames at . 01:49:33 James: this is the issue discussed yesterday, including the question then considered of landmark navigation. 01:50:30 Michael adds this issue to his note from the discussion yesterday. 01:51:37 James: the "main" item is subsumed by the larger proposal for events that can move to landmark regions (as defined by ARIA landmark roles). 01:52:53 Jason suggests documenting "main" as a proposal under discussion, in the context of the alternative proposal to the generalized navigation to landmark regions proposal. 01:54:37 James and Katie clarify that the "invoke help" event can be invoked by a gesture in user interfaces that support 3d gestural input. 01:55:11 Action 58 - point-of-regard focus and blur. 01:55:11 Error finding '58'. You can review and register nicknames at . 01:55:38 James clarifies that this is separate from the "return to previous point of regard" proposal discussed yesterday. 01:56:18 James clarifies that this is a UI event, not a request event. 01:56:30 Michael: the event reacts to gain or loss of point of regard. 01:57:05 James notes his search for a better term than "point of regard". 01:57:53 Janina notes that there currently aren't any good alternative terms currently proposed. 01:58:58 James: for post-1.0 - text editing events - issue 9. 02:01:03 James: search for the next heading/occurrence of a search string, etc., in applications where te entire document is not loaded into the DOM tree of the ua. For performance reasons, often only part of a document is loaded (e.g., by editors). 02:01:46 James: manipulation of size - resize the requests in graphics applications. 02:02:59 Michael captures the requirement. 02:04:00 James: changing the centre point of a rotation event should also be included here. 02:04:28 Action 31 - column sorting events. 02:04:28 Error finding '31'. You can review and register nicknames at . 02:07:06 In grids (i.e., interactive grids rather than static tables) there are sometimes commands to sort a column in the current sort order - this is typically implemented in the visual interface by clicking on the column header. 02:08:39 James and Katie clarify that this could (but probably doesn't) have applications in mobile devices, since presumably the headers should still be presented after scrolling and hence should be available for clicking in the visual interface. 02:09:08 Michael turns to the wiki and the requirements proposed there. 02:09:38 -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements#Requirements Events Requirements wiki 02:10:00 kenny has joined #indie-ui 02:11:56 Notification event requirements - it is agreed that this is not clear as expressed in the wiki. It's very confusing, as James suggests. 02:12:27 Michael suggests this isn't a requirement on Indie-UI events, but may be a requirement on implementations. 02:13:45 Multi-input requirement: Michael and Jason concur that this is evident from the broad goals of the specification. 02:14:45 Michael suggests treating these as broad objectives rather than requirements and that they could usefully be added to the introduction. 02:15:24 zakim, Kenny_Zhang has entered yellow 02:15:24 +Kenny_Zhang; got it 02:15:39 Jason concurs. 02:15:49 Michael summarizes the remaining items. 02:18:20 There is discussion of implicit and explicit point of regard in the case of manipulating images on screen. 02:19:18 Point of Regard will always be an explicit Element. 02:19:42 But if there is a mouse event, there will be coordinates on the Event object. 02:19:46 Michael notes that some of this material could be valuable in an authoring guide in addition to the introduction. 02:20:14 Michael proposes to move this text to another wiki page. 02:20:53 Keyboard triggered events will not have the optional x/y so the web application would need to determine appropriate x/y coords, e.g. the centerpoint of a zoomable view. 02:20:58 The last item also fits into the category of being destined for the (as yet hypothetical) authoring guide. 02:21:51 q+ for MouseEvent, KeyEvent inheritance 02:22:12 -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Events/Authoring_Guide Wiki page for Events Authoring Guide 02:22:28 ack j 02:22:28 jcraig, you wanted to discuss MouseEvent, KeyEvent inheritance 02:23:57 UIRequestEvent should contain a superset of MouseEvent and KeyEvent 02:24:16 s/KeyEvent/KeyEvent properties/ 02:24:28 Michael (clarifying a point developed by James): UIRequestEvent must support both keyboard and mouse properties. 02:25:03 James clarifies that other events may need to be included in this. 02:25:10 Michael reformulates the requirement accordingly. 02:25:44 test 02:27:11 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/d4e/raw-file/tip/source_respec.htm#constructor-mouseevent 02:27:25 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/d4e/raw-file/tip/source_respec.htm#constructor-keyboardevent 02:27:45 s/KeyEvent/KeyboardEvent/g 02:28:33 Michael proposes to work through the scenarios to determine whether and to what extent these are the scenarios that we want to inform our requirements for version 1.0. 02:29:16 -James_Craig 02:29:29 It is proposed to discuss the Indie-UI/Epub relationship after the break, then return to scenarios. 02:29:42 Michael´s notes on Events requirements walk-through 02:29:44 Events Requirements 02:29:44 1.2 Goals 02:29:44 Provide an API layer to define user intended events that is agnostic of the specific input methodology and independent of a user's particular platform, hardware, locale, and preferences. 02:29:44 Allow the API to support user commands without requiring specific physical events. 02:29:45 1.3 Scope 02:29:46 Do not require specific physical user interactions (keyboard combinations, gestures, speech, etc.) to trigger particular IndieUI events. 02:29:49 1.5 Backwards Compatibility 02:29:51 Structure the events such that they are only triggered if the application registers an interest in them, to optimize performance and allow backwards compatibility. 02:29:54 Provide a way for applications to communicate that a given event request was or was not handled so the host OS or UA can attempt fallback behaviour. 02:29:57 Do not block standard events when listening for IndieUI events. ISSUE-15 may impact this. 02:29:59 Provide a way to "reset" ui-actions on descendant node. ISSUE-15 may impact this. 02:30:01 2. UI Actions 02:30:03 Allow event delegation without affecting performance and scoping of events. ISSUE-16 impacts this. 02:30:05 02:30:07 3. UI Request Events 02:30:11 There will be a requirement for how IndieUI events fit in with the order of other events ISSUE-15 02:30:13 Might need a requirement to be able to associate an IndieUI event with other related physical events ISSUE-15 02:30:16 3.1 UIRequestEvent 02:30:18 IndieUI Events must extend UIEvents unless the IndieUI requirements are met directly in UI Events. 02:30:20 IndieUI must support the following functions unless supported by other technologies: undo, redo, expand, collapse, dismiss, delete, move, pan, rotation, scroll, valuechange, zoom 02:30:23 The properties of IndieUI request events must be a superset of the events from at least both keyboard and mouse events in the UI Events specification. 02:30:26 3.2 UIFocusRequestEvent 02:30:28 Support linear navigation for first, previous, next, and last. 02:30:30 Support directional navigation for (8 cardinal direction). 02:30:33 Provide a mechanism for users to move focus non-linearly to other sections of the document such as toolbar, palette, and windows. Action-57: also help (main covered by landmark) 02:30:36 Provide a way to navigate amongst landmark regions. This may be at risk in 1.0 and could be pushed to future version. Might be a11y specific. 02:30:41 Provide a way for users to return to their previous point of regard, like emacs and vid and IDEs support. This does not have consensus yet. Need to determine if it is just keyboard or others as well. Could be pushed to future version. Seems to have general use cases. 02:30:45 =============== 02:30:47 3.3 UIManipulationRequestEvent 02:30:49 Provide a mechanism to move, pan, rotate, and zoom objects or the screen. 02:30:51 3.4 UIScrollRequestRequestEvent 02:30:53 Provide a mechanism for custom scroll views to scroll the view by increments, entire screens, and to the limit in four cardinal directions. 02:30:56 3.5 UIValueChangeRequestEvent 02:30:58 Provide a mechanism to adjust numeric values of custom range controls by small and large increments, or to minimum and maximum values. 02:31:01 4 Feature Detection 02:31:03 Provide a mechanism for content authors to determine if the user agent has support for specific events. 02:31:05 Requirements from tracker http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2 02:31:07 Provide a mechanism to access context menus and perhaps other secondary actions (might be future requirement). (issue-3) 02:31:12 Provide a mechanism for standard media controls including play, pause, stop, fast forward, rewind, move to start or end, increase or decrease volume, set volume to minimum or maximum, mute and unmute, move to next and previous track (action-16, action-19, action-20) (some of these might be future) 02:31:15 Provide a mechanism to suspend or resume an activity (action-17) (might be future) 02:31:17 Provide a mechanism to select one or more objects (contiguously or discontiguously) for the purpose of performing an action (action-25). 02:31:20 Provide a mechanism to activate an object without implying a click event; scenario is slide to unlock screen on FirefoxOS (action-53) need to coordinate with Webapps 02:31:23 Provide an event that reacts to gain or loss of point of regard (action-58) @@still need a better name for POR 02:31:26 Future requirements http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/4 02:31:28 Provide a mechanism to support text editing (need to spell out specific events required): (issue 9) 02:31:30 Provide a mechanism to support quick search functionality directly within the web application (issue-12) 02:31:32 Provide a mechanism to resize objects in graphical editing applications with ability to constrain proportions (action-26) 02:31:35 Provide a mechanism to set the centerpoint of a rotation request (action-26) 02:31:37 Provide a mechanism to request grid sort by columns (action-31) 02:33:49 -Yellow_river_2 02:33:50 WAI_Indie()7:00PM has ended 02:33:50 Attendees were Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Jason_White, Markus_Gylling, Jeanne_Spellman, Takeshi_Kurosawa, Mary_Jo_Mueller, James_Craig, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kenny_Zhang 02:37:22 q+ to mention I'm not sure UIRequestEvent will be a direct superset of MouseEvent and KeyboardEvent. Instead it may be implemented more like inherited from UIEvent, but with a few mix-in properties culled from MouseEvent and KeyboardEvent, like relatedTarget, x, y, and others. 02:41:02 mgylling has joined #indie-ui 02:55:00 dsinger has joined #indie-ui 02:58:43 mgylling has joined #indie-ui 03:00:21 zakim, call yellow_river_2 03:00:21 ok, MichaelC; the call is being made 03:00:22 WAI_Indie()7:00PM has now started 03:00:23 +Yellow_river_2 03:03:20 kenny has joined #indie-ui 03:03:25 kurosawa has joined #indie-ui 03:03:38 +James_Craig 03:03:54 jasonjgw has joined #indie-ui 03:04:29 scribe: Ryladog 03:04:54 * scribe: Rladog 03:05:01 * scribe: Ryladog 03:05:12 topic: IndieUI and EPub 03:05:55 zakim, whos here 03:05:55 I don't understand 'whos here', Ryladog 03:06:09 zakim, who's here? 03:06:09 On the phone I see Yellow_river_2, James_Craig 03:06:11 On IRC I see jasonjgw, kurosawa, kenny, mgylling, Ryladog, jcraig, RRSAgent, Zakim, MichaelC, janina, trackbot, hober, eeejay 03:06:25 janina_ has joined #indie-ui 03:06:50 zakim, yellow has Janina_Sajka, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Markus_Gylling, Michael_Cooper, Jason_White, Kenny_Zhang, @@ 03:06:50 +Janina_Sajka, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Markus_Gylling, Michael_Cooper, Jason_White, Kenny_Zhang, @@; got it 03:06:51 MG: DPIG for ePub 03:07:16 MG: This functionality is more than A11Y and user preferences 03:07:42 MG: Let us have a formal meeting for Indie-UI and DPIG 03:08:35 MG: We will be happy work with you. Use cases that I will describe to be sure Epub and IndieUi intersections is 03:08:49 MG: We want to sure we understand each others scope 03:08:57 zakim, Cynthia_Shelly has joined yellow 03:08:57 sorry, MichaelC, I do not recognize a party named 'Cynthia_Shelly' 03:09:06 zakim, Cynthia_Shelly has entered yellow 03:09:06 +Cynthia_Shelly; got it 03:09:14 zakim, Renoir_Boulanger has entered yellow 03:09:15 +Renoir_Boulanger; got it 03:09:37 MG: I have read Latest Working Draft of IndieUI. There i a higher level preference model that I do NOT see in IndieUI 03:10:30 MG: 1. eBooks come in multiple renditions (dual rendership, highly graphical - fix layout - just an image - image centric HTML - lots of layout and design) 03:10:51 MG: 2. Mainly a textual rendition 03:11:14 MG: the selection of hese two come from what devoce is recieving, not the user 03:11:31 MG: The user can state a reference on a much more abstract level 03:11:38 http://www.a11ymetadata.org/the-specification/ 03:12:08 MG: AccessMode property is not stable yet, but what they have is so high level, this mode is auditory, etc 03:12:45 q+ 03:12:54 MG: the equiv in Schema.org is contnet properties - so shoul InideuI have a similar preference model 03:13:26 MG:Another point is Image description stuff (info graphics in image repositirties) 03:13:48 MG: My preference would be that I would prefer a imagal respresentation 03:13:49 renoirb has joined #indie-ui 03:13:59 q- later 03:14:02 ack jason 03:15:03 JW: What is in scope for User Context module is still open to discussion - if think people working on ePub might like to utilize IndieUI your group could influence our direction related to n& P oresented to the user 03:15:21 JW: We welcome that participation 03:16:11 MG: This higher level is NOT out of scope for Indie-UI. This seems to be very different in what I currenty see in you rspec 03:16:27 MC: It is in scope maybe for version 2 but possibly sooner 03:16:30 zakim, Lisa_Seeman has entered yellow 03:16:31 +Lisa_Seeman; got it 03:16:53 MC: so ePub will neeed to provide you with clear use cases 03:17:12 q+ 03:17:22 MG: I see that you are looking at MediaQueires - which I think is right. But I have a question...?? 03:17:50 MG: I am curious about document object and CSS indepeendent 03:18:15 MG: theere is this undrlying idea that ypu should be able to send these stand alone datasets 03:18:15 s/indepeendent/independent/ 03:19:35 zakim, Jeanne_Spellman_with_shopping has entered yellow 03:19:35 +Jeanne_Spellman_with_shopping; got it 03:19:36 JC: The MQ are up for debate - some in CSS spec - several preps related to a11y metadata project (key value pair UI). 03:19:46 zakim, Mary_Jo_Mueller_with_shopping has entered yellow 03:19:46 +Mary_Jo_Mueller_with_shopping; got it 03:20:14 JC: The IndieUI and A11Y metadata specs are sort of getting to the same point 03:20:42 JS: I think Markus is giving us a wider view than just accessibility for Indeie-Ui and ePub 03:21:36 JC: Search via IndieUI context I will increase the search result with captions the AT, web page to determine th project - but use meatadat project to determine WHAY resources is more relevant for that search 03:21:45 q+ 03:21:59 ack jc 03:21:59 jcraig, you wanted to mention I'm not sure UIRequestEvent will be a direct superset of MouseEvent and KeyboardEvent. Instead it may be implemented more like inherited from UIEvent, 03:22:03 ... but with a few mix-in properties culled from MouseEvent and KeyboardEvent, like relatedTarget, x, y, and others. and to 03:22:16 MJ: Yes - not overlap for IndieUI and A11Y metadata - there is a functionality match. 03:22:40 q+ to mention I'm not sure UIRequestEvent will be a direct superset of MouseEvent and KeyboardEvent. Instead it may be implemented more like inherited from UIEvent, but with a few mix-in properties culled from MouseEvent and KeyboardEvent, like relatedTarget, x, y, and others. 03:22:43 MJ: Currently in IndieUI we hae a list of atomic properties - very low level building blocks 03:23:05 MJ: But we also need a higher level abstract peference 03:23:14 ack j 03:23:14 jcraig, you wanted to mention I'm not sure UIRequestEvent will be a direct superset of MouseEvent and KeyboardEvent. Instead it may be implemented more like inherited from UIEvent, 03:23:16 q- 03:23:17 ... but with a few mix-in properties culled from MouseEvent and KeyboardEvent, like relatedTarget, x, y, and others. 03:23:22 ack j 03:23:41 JW: Pleasse dont assume the current working draft is anything finalized at all 03:24:39 JW: In response to James the UC to supply the infor thwn used by search tools to use matching MD that corresponds to the users preferences - that is the righr way to think about this relationship 03:25:15 JW: MQ there is the question whos spec should it belong in CSS, or Indie UI? Also a question odf syntax and API 03:25:59 JW: Use extend MQ syntax UI to adopt and extend it for purposes of specificying the Inie UI UC props for the CSS WG 03:26:20 q+ 03:26:20 JW: These are the two questions 03:27:03 JC: I was misunderstanding your questions. Now I understand, relative to the user context 03:27:23 JC: for 1.0 for scope are things that can be expreseede through brwosers currently 03:28:00 JC: or a higher level I prefer tacile we are need to hold on until UA catch up - but that is hwere we will be going 03:28:16 JC: This is important for adoption 03:28:38 I´ve got ¨The properties of IndieUI request events must support certain properties of keyboard and mouse events and including relatedTarget, x, y, and others 03:28:38 ¨ 03:28:53 s/I´ve got ¨The properties of IndieUI request events must support certain properties of keyboard and mouse events and including relatedTarget, x, y, and others // 03:28:55 MG: Line height - but not line length? why? 03:29:17 q+ 03:29:25 MG: This is important for dislexia - but I am sure that you have thought abourt this 03:29:43 JC:Yes we did. Users can do that with user stylesheets 03:30:05 JC: We can expose the defaults today - 03:30:25 JC: then if you get systems that allow you to set CSS vehicles then that would be good 03:30:58 MG: Another UP prop is queries for out of line accessible deacriptions is maybe the same answer James? 03:31:25 JC: Like i prefer spanish over english? Browser can do that already 03:31:35 q+ 03:31:57 JC: there is a lang in CSS 03:32:10 JC: via cpntent negotaipn 03:32:25 q? 03:32:55 ack jc 03:32:57 JC: Langiage overarching prefs not common that you would serve all content to all users to a device 03:33:54 MG: No we would not want to but renditions being embedded in the same package - peoepl may want to in the future for the language but another example is to target different agegroups 03:34:15 MG: Allow runtime negotiaition for simple language renditions 03:35:05 for 1.0 03:35:22 JW: Intent by IndieUI to confine UC props ti current UA - we may not all agree n that yet 03:35:50 My statement was about the 1.0 release… 03:36:11 richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui 03:36:28 JW: We want to push the UAs with our properties if we can, in my opinion 03:36:52 JW: We have discussed how specific these props should be 03:37:40 +Rich_Schwerdtfeger 03:37:44 q- 03:38:44 q? 03:38:53 ack j 03:39:53 LS: For langauage - As skills change you would want the content to change - that should ship in the same eBook 03:40:26 LS: We have book that is in enlish as your skills in a new language improve to be able to graduate 03:40:29 cyns has joined #indie-ui 03:42:12 KHS: I think all languages referenced in an eBook SHOULD be loaded with that book 03:42:52 MG: Teachers are looking to adapt contect to individual students cleverly to your knowledge level and prefence 03:42:59 q+ 03:43:25 MG: we want o allow for these things, age range, skill range, grade in mathematcis 03:43:42 MG: Do i need to take a simpleversion of this exersize 03:44:00 MG: I know that we need to get to 1.0 03:44:03 ack r 03:45:51 KHS: We should reference LMS, A11Y metadata, Schema.org, spec that have worked for years 03:46:23 q+ 03:46:40 MG: loet talk low haning fruits. Will you address high contrast prefence - maybe we should not do that in MediaQuesries after all 03:47:44 Renior: Some MediaQueries have a limitation it is bianary - the device supports it or not 03:48:06 gcapiel has joined #indie-ui 03:48:45 JC: I would object that it is on or off or binary setting. MD has options not on or off 03:48:57 MC: MediaQuesries is Bianary 03:49:17 CS: MS has 3 options 03:49:18 s/Bianary/Binary/ 03:49:23 q? 03:49:32 ack jc 03:49:43 JC: There are 3 props in our spec, usercolor, seerbackground color, and?? 03:50:07 JC: With all of those three MS can get all they need to implement and others as well 03:50:23 JS \: I agree but lets not get stuck in the weeds 03:50:32 Microsoft's proposal for -ms-high-contrast is very specific to Microsoft's implementation. 03:50:40 lisa has joined #indie-ui 03:51:05 Low hanging fruit is definitely the way to go :) 03:51:25 MG: James high contrast will be using Media Queries? 03:51:34 I think it can be solved in a cross-platform means with three queries for display-contrast-increased: %, user-color, and user-background-color 03:51:39 JC: All three are used in Indie UI props 03:52:11 q? 03:52:30 JC: Black on white you would get different color values there - with MS it would be a 100% but other platforms would be a percentage value 03:52:50 MG: I did not see the contrast increase - but now I see it 03:53:24 q+ 03:53:26 MG: The other issue is ambient audio. The ability to HOH to surpress background audio 03:53:49 q+ to mention http://dev.w3.org/csswg/mediaqueries4/#mf-environment 03:53:56 JS: That is a good one, in HTML5 A!!Y TF we have the clean Audio requirements 03:54:17 s/A!!Y/A11Y/ 03:54:31 zakim, rich unmute 03:54:31 I don't understand 'rich unmute', richardschwerdtfeger 03:54:32 q? 03:54:37 ack ja 03:54:43 MG: Yes, but there is a mainsteam use case for people to add a background sound to run while reading a book 03:54:52 JW: Audio Contrast 03:54:53 q+ 03:55:30 ack jcr 03:55:30 jcraig, you wanted to mention http://dev.w3.org/csswg/mediaqueries4/#mf-environment 03:55:33 MG: Contrast between control of both or having it turned off or on 03:55:40 ack jc 03:56:11 JC: I just posted this in CSS which currently only has one property about ambient light - so maye we need the same for audio 03:56:29 Zakim, what is the room number? 03:56:29 I don't understand your question, renoirb. 03:57:03 voip room number 03:57:22 zakim, code? 03:57:23 the conference code is 46343 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), MichaelC 03:57:27 sure 03:57:46 q+ 03:57:55 +??P8 03:57:57 JC: There is a note using this working with MS - you can tell that the CSS WG is thinking about some of this. Ambient audio as well - up until now CSS WG has seemed to object to ambient audio - but may be open if we are not exposing privacy issses and is implementable as well 03:58:04 q- 03:58:48 zakim, ??P8 is Renoir_Boulanger 03:58:48 +Renoir_Boulanger; got it 03:58:48 q+ 03:59:01 Rich: I do not understand why CSS would not want to have the ability to turn off BG audio 03:59:15 JC: Because it is not something that can be adjusted with out JS 03:59:32 JC: I am not soeaking for them 04:00:02