IRC log of indie-ui on 2013-11-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:38:41 [RRSAgent]
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00:38:41 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-indie-ui-irc
00:38:43 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
00:38:43 [Zakim]
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00:38:45 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be INDIE
00:38:45 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()7:00PM scheduled to start 38 minutes ago
00:38:46 [trackbot]
Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
00:38:46 [trackbot]
Date: 14 November 2013
00:38:49 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, do not start a new log
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00:59:07 [MichaelC]
meeting: IndieUI FtF Day 1
00:59:10 [MichaelC]
agenda: http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013
00:59:13 [MichaelC]
chair: Janina_Sajka
00:59:43 [jeanne]
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01:00:24 [richardschwerdtfeger]
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01:01:19 [Zakim]
WAI_Indie()7:00PM has now started
01:01:26 [Zakim]
+Rich_Schwerdtfeger
01:01:57 [richardschwerdtfeger]
anyone going to open a phone line?
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01:04:08 [MichaelC]
zakim, call yellow_river_2
01:04:08 [Zakim]
ok, MichaelC; the call is being made
01:04:09 [Zakim]
+Yellow_river_2
01:04:33 [Zakim]
+James_Craig
01:05:47 [MichaelC]
zakim, yellow has Janina_Sajka, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, Jason_White, Wu_Yinghua, Kenny_Zhung, Jeanne_Spellman
01:05:47 [Zakim]
+Janina_Sajka, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, Jason_White, Wu_Yinghua, Kenny_Zhung, Jeanne_Spellman; got it
01:06:19 [richardschwerdtfeger]
can any of you hear us?
01:06:33 [richardschwerdtfeger]
we are called in. James and I are both on
01:06:49 [richardschwerdtfeger]
not a word
01:07:11 [Zakim]
-Yellow_river_2
01:07:19 [Zakim]
+Yellow_river_2
01:07:33 [richardschwerdtfeger]
what is the call in passcode?
01:07:37 [jcraig]
Zakim, passcode?
01:07:37 [Zakim]
the conference code is 46343 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), jcraig
01:07:39 [richardschwerdtfeger]
is it different?
01:07:46 [richardschwerdtfeger]
that is what we are dialed in on
01:08:00 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, off
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04:46:23 [Zakim]
-James_Craig
04:47:23 [Zakim]
-Yellow_river_2
05:29:37 [andy]
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05:31:57 [andy]
Hi
05:32:53 [andy]
Enjoying the dim sums eh
05:40:47 [andy]
Hmmmm - must be really good dim sums :-)
05:41:02 [andy]
Saki ?
05:41:13 [andy]
Rice wine ?
05:41:55 [Zakim]
+??P5
05:42:23 [andy]
zakim, ??PS=Andy
05:42:23 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??PS=Andy', andy
05:42:46 [andy]
zakim, ??P1=Andy
05:42:46 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??P1=Andy', andy
05:43:05 [andy]
zakim, ??P1=me
05:43:05 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??P1=me', andy
05:43:19 [Zakim]
-??P5
05:52:19 [kenny]
kenny has joined #indie-ui
05:53:26 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
05:53:28 [Zakim]
WAI_Indie()7:00PM has ended
05:53:28 [Zakim]
Attendees were Rich_Schwerdtfeger, James_Craig, Janina_Sajka, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, Jason_White, Wu_Yinghua, Kenny_Zhung, Jeanne_Spellman, Yellow_river_2,
05:53:28 [Zakim]
... Takashi_Kurosawa, Kenny_Zhang, Mary_Jo_Mueller, WuWei, Wu_Wei, Judy_Brewer, Boryung_Kim
05:54:56 [andy]
Hi
05:56:34 [andy]
anyone there ?
05:57:04 [andy]
me too Katie
05:58:17 [andy]
:-)
06:00:29 [kurosawa]
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06:01:37 [MichaelC]
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06:02:09 [MichaelC]
zakim, room for 5 for 240 minutes?
06:02:11 [Zakim]
ok, MichaelC; conference Team_(indie-ui)06:02Z scheduled with code 46343 (INDIE) for 240 minutes until 1002Z
06:02:20 [Zakim]
Team_(indie-ui)06:02Z has now started
06:02:22 [Zakim]
+Yellow_river_2
06:02:26 [Zakim]
+??P8
06:02:43 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P8 is Andy_Heath
06:02:43 [Zakim]
+Andy_Heath; got it
06:03:53 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
06:04:34 [janina_]
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06:06:50 [MichaelC]
zakim, ipcaller is Katie_Haritos-Shea
06:06:50 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea; got it
06:06:52 [MichaelC]
zakim, mute katie
06:06:52 [Zakim]
Katie_Haritos-Shea should now be muted
06:07:27 [Zakim]
+James_Craig
06:07:45 [jcraig]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
06:07:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Yellow_river_2, Andy_Heath, Katie_Haritos-Shea (muted), James_Craig
06:09:11 [Ryladog]
yes
06:09:28 [Ryladog]
scribe: Katie
06:09:52 [Ryladog]
rrsagent, make minutes
06:09:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
06:10:18 [Ryladog]
TOPIC: User Context
06:10:35 [Ryladog]
JS: Are you going to do a talk?
06:10:50 [Ryladog]
AH: Yes on the 20th if folks need me to do that
06:10:59 [Ryladog]
JS: Good, please.
06:11:17 [Ryladog]
AH: It is 4 hours from my house
06:11:44 [Ryladog]
JS: We met with Web Apps and CSS WG earlier this week. Good outcomes
06:12:35 [Ryladog]
JS: Web Apps additional attention from them and an guy from Google is interested in keyboard preferences. And do not oversell privacy
06:12:53 [MaryJo]
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06:13:30 [Ryladog]
JS: CSS also went well they will look at our spec feature by feature. Overall they think our approach is good. Tad Adkins has provided some feedback. James ?
06:13:41 [jeanne]
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06:14:23 [Ryladog]
JC: Mostly postive and open to the general idea. They thought maybe mediaqueries is not the best approach - his idea is to use a JS query for pairs
06:14:33 [Judy]
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06:15:08 [Ryladog]
JC: I think we could use a hybrid approach. MQ appraoc has been approved as well as the ket value pairs as well
06:15:13 [danielkim]
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06:15:20 [andy]
q+
06:16:28 [Ryladog]
AH: One big use case is around developing stuff on ePub 3 and eBooks and using metadata.
06:16:52 [andy]
http://www.a11ymetadata.org/the-specification/
06:16:53 [Ryladog]
AH: One spec I have mentioned, schema.org accessibility metadata
06:17:46 [Ryladog]
AH: We thought it was final but more new changes have come along. It is close to final. The Access Feature is final.
06:17:57 [Ryladog]
AH: Still worjing on AccessMode
06:18:43 [Ryladog]
AH: This is the metadata that will be used and we should map to these elements
06:19:11 [Ryladog]
JS: It would be a win if we could be the mechanism fot ePub 3
06:20:09 [Ryladog]
AH: Yes. It just happened this week. Preferences that we have got partially map to this. Are we missing some of these. I need to map them.
06:20:25 [Ryladog]
JS: How much work is this? We want to remail mean and lean
06:20:54 [Ryladog]
AH: There are political reasons for doing this. What do others think?
06:21:29 [Ryladog]
MC: Do you mean just documented in our requirements?
06:22:21 [jcraig]
q+
06:22:39 [MichaelC]
q+ to say requirements and implementations are a two way street
06:22:41 [MichaelC]
ack a
06:22:49 [Ryladog]
AH: They are not all different, in the ePub world that needs preferences for devices. It is not all authored, much is automatic. It is important for us to utilize
06:23:04 [Ryladog]
AH: Selection of media, etc, in my view
06:23:42 [MichaelC]
ack
06:23:44 [MichaelC]
ack j
06:23:55 [Ryladog]
JC: The Specification section, there is no explanation on how it is intended to be used. Who writes this spec? Can they join our call to explain the use
06:24:35 [Ryladog]
AH: I should be able to do that. We change categorizations for Media....
06:25:20 [Ryladog]
JC:Can you explain AccessMode? If we accessed this like a key value pair - give it that info....
06:25:36 [Ryladog]
AH: This is content metadata
06:26:03 [Ryladog]
AH: Preference might be captions, or text to visual
06:26:56 [Ryladog]
AH: In general they are pais but they do not all exist. Color dependence - the content depends on info that is coded in color
06:28:27 [MichaelC]
scribe: MichaelC
06:28:39 [MichaelC]
ah: I might be able to do this, but others could also
06:28:51 [MichaelC]
jc: what actions for this group?
06:28:56 [MichaelC]
spec doesn't seem ready for group
06:29:02 [MichaelC]
ah: not quite but not far off
06:29:07 [MichaelC]
started for AccessForAll3
06:29:33 [jasonjgw]
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06:29:36 [MichaelC]
some of our use cases and requirements map to this, though there has been divergence
06:29:46 [janina_]
q?
06:30:46 [MichaelC]
scribe: Ryladog
06:31:12 [Ryladog]
JC: This is metadata that describes a content resources?
06:31:18 [Ryladog]
AH: Yes
06:31:31 [Ryladog]
JC: Would this be embedded in the webpage?
06:31:41 [jasonjgw]
q+
06:31:47 [Ryladog]
AH: yes there is a bindimg mecchanism but not CSS
06:32:00 [MichaelC]
q- later
06:32:03 [jcraig]
http://www.a11ymetadata.org/the-specification/examples/
06:32:03 [Ryladog]
CG: I am unsure how
06:32:31 [Ryladog]
AH: That WAS the suggested binding - I think that has changed
06:33:32 [jcraig]
Reminds me of Dublin Core
06:33:47 [jcraig]
http://dublincore.org/documents/dc-rdf/
06:34:03 [Ryladog]
AH: The metadata world, including the IDPF uses HTML5 - the binding mechanism is separtae from the from the idea
06:34:52 [andy]
q+
06:35:04 [Ryladog]
JW: I was talking with Gerardo yesterday, we discussed the potetnail relevance of the schema work to IndieUI
06:36:05 [Ryladog]
JW: IndieUI could work as a search tool to find schema,org using a query syntx. To automated the restriction ofn the search -wich would
06:36:18 [MichaelC]
ack kj
06:36:21 [MichaelC]
ack j
06:36:24 [MichaelC]
q- later
06:36:52 [Ryladog]
JS: Maybe we should talk with them, but I stray
06:37:35 [jcraig]
For example, video search engine could detect via IndieUI preference for captions, and return more relevant results by increasing the relevance of videos that included captions/subtitles.
06:37:38 [Ryladog]
AH: I think that is right Jason - Geraerdo has been working on this for some time, and I am new to it
06:38:19 [Ryladog]
MC: Gerardo (from Benetec) and Markus
06:38:21 [jcraig]
s/Geraerdo/Gerardo/
06:38:49 [jcraig]
s/Benetec/Benetech/
06:39:01 [Ryladog]
JS: A programmer that works out of San Fran who we added to PF, his name?
06:39:19 [Ryladog]
JS: Looking for his name...
06:39:41 [janina_]
Bryan Garaventa
06:40:07 [Ryladog]
AH: Practice Guide for version 6 of this - but the spec is version 7
06:40:13 [MichaelC]
ack a
06:40:37 [jcraig]
Oh, yeah, I've met Bryan at some point in the past.
06:40:37 [jasonjgw]
q+
06:40:51 [MichaelC]
ack me
06:40:51 [Zakim]
MichaelC, you wanted to say requirements and implementations are a two way street
06:41:33 [Ryladog]
MC: What requirements might make 2.0 or 3.0 - that might help us to add this in sooner
06:41:44 [MichaelC]
ack j
06:41:49 [Ryladog]
JS: We could create customers for our spec that way
06:42:34 [Ryladog]
JW: The questions we have raised is are we going to harmonize our UNandP with the corresponding metadata - that goes to UC Reqs
06:42:56 [Ryladog]
JW: That goes with what feature to include in the spec now
06:44:09 [Ryladog]
JW: Whether the UC Props should be kept to UA or OS controls in implementation - but James argued that the Props are able in fact to be used by the UA or OS\
06:44:58 [jcraig]
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06:45:02 [Ryladog]
JW: It is now clear that isnt enought to implement the API there must be some mechnaism (outside of IndieUI) with real data from somewhere which might be UAs
06:45:24 [Ryladog]
MC: Gererdo can come to our call in about 45 minutes
06:45:45 [Ryladog]
MC: for about 45 minutes now
06:47:10 [Ryladog]
snoring stories
06:47:35 [Ryladog]
JW: what needs to be supported?
06:48:06 [Ryladog]
AH: It depends on what we take on...supporting...importing somehow
06:48:19 [Ryladog]
AH: This is a preference in the data model
06:48:47 [jasonjgw]
q+
06:48:50 [Ryladog]
AH: I do not have any good idea of how to get preferences in.
06:48:57 [jcraig]
q+ to mention some of the prefs that fit in media queries can be stored in a user style sheet, and system prefs don't need storage
06:49:47 [andy]
q+
06:49:49 [Ryladog]
JW: I think we have broad agreement that we didnt want to constrain how the pref were to be used on the UA - the discussion outcome - is using US conformance requirements
06:50:33 [Ryladog]
JW: If thatis the case that that help define the scope if all UA provide a mechanism to use the API that we are using
06:51:12 [Ryladog]
JW: That seems to fit well. And does help to define the scope of our work if we go with that model
06:51:15 [jcraig]
q?
06:51:19 [jcraig]
ack jas
06:51:30 [jcraig]
ack me
06:51:30 [Zakim]
jcraig, you wanted to mention some of the prefs that fit in media queries can be stored in a user style sheet, and system prefs don't need storage
06:51:47 [janina_]
q?
06:52:40 [Ryladog]
JC: One way is to store the prefiin CSS for a user sytle sheet that fits within MQ. Foe example - Not an override - but a particular font size
06:52:55 [MichaelC]
zakim, Gerardo_Capiel has entered Yellow_River_2
06:52:55 [Zakim]
+Gerardo_Capiel; got it
06:53:23 [Ryladog]
JC: Subtitle etc would fit well in CSS - but others are not they are more OS type controls
06:53:38 [gcapiel]
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06:54:05 [Ryladog]
JC: Abstact stuff like auditory over visual - there does not seem to be a way with CSS to define this - that is an implemenetation detail
06:54:30 [Ryladog]
MC: Gerardo has joined us
06:54:45 [Ryladog]
JS: Brings Gererdo up to speed
06:55:09 [jcraig]
s/that is an implemenetation detail/a storage format for that would be an implementation detail, and
06:55:09 [jcraig]
outside the scope of the W3C/
06:55:19 [Ryladog]
JS: A spec with a customer (schema.org) is better than a spec that is just a good idea
06:55:21 [jcraig]
s/that is an implemenetation detail/a storage format for that would be an implementation detail, and outside the scope of the W3C/
06:55:29 [jcraig]
rrsagent, make minutes
06:55:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-indie-ui-minutes.html jcraig
06:55:46 [jcraig]
s/Gererdo/Gerardo/
06:56:32 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: ePub 3 is HTML5 and this - video etc. The challenge is implementers might not implement A11Y features of ePub 3
06:56:32 [jcraig]
s/a storage format for that would be an implementation detail, and/a storage format for that would be an implementation detail, and outside the scope of the W3C/
06:57:10 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: Will be approved AccessFeature schema
06:57:32 [Ryladog]
A11Y.org?
06:57:39 [andy]
http://www.a11ymetadata.org/the-specification/
06:59:16 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: That will be accepted, Access Hazard, Access API (terms for ARIA, most A11Y APIs - maybe Indie UI), Access Controls
07:00:05 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: Terms and propertires come from Access for All 24751. AccessMode will not make it in as there is an overlap with some Schema props
07:00:16 [janina_]
q?
07:01:03 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: The encoding format properies could be used
07:01:21 [jcraig]
q+ to ask about how this metadate is intended to be bound to data, such as a video.
07:01:50 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: We have started some implementations...use Google Custom search engine
07:02:10 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: there is a sample search
07:02:12 [jcraig]
q+ to mention "media feature" is a CSS term, so probably should not use it here to mean something else
07:02:33 [janina_]
ack a
07:02:35 [jcraig]
ack me
07:02:35 [Zakim]
jcraig, you wanted to ask about how this metadate is intended to be bound to data, such as a video. and to mention "media feature" is a CSS term, so probably should not use it here
07:02:38 [Zakim]
... to mean something else
07:03:08 [Ryladog]
JC: One note, MediaFeature means something in the W3C in CSS - we should not change or reuse it.
07:03:33 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: We have changed it now to Access?
07:04:28 [Ryladog]
JC: How is the metadata intended to be bound to real data? How would this be associated to not flash in a video? Embedded?
07:04:48 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: Micro data is the HTM that wraos around the element
07:04:55 [kurosawa]
kurosawa has left #indie-ui
07:04:55 [gcapiel]
http://www.a11ymetadata.org/the-specification/examples/#mlk
07:05:05 [kurosawa]
kurosawa has joined #indie-ui
07:05:14 [Ryladog]
JC: Embedded with the metadata as well
07:05:58 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: hasAdaptation will not make it in the spec
07:06:32 [Ryladog]
JC: Seems to be metadata about the page? but you could confine it to a specific element
07:06:36 [andy]
yes - in fact its necessarry
07:07:03 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: Yes, it should be in a span and not a body element
07:07:14 [Ryladog]
JC: Inside the video tag?
07:07:16 [andy]
q+
07:07:19 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: Correct
07:07:33 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: This is not a great example
07:07:58 [Ryladog]
JC: Consumers would be search engines but maybe UAs as well?
07:08:08 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: yes, I think so
07:08:36 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: example: this page has 3 video but none of them are captioned
07:08:44 [MichaelC]
ack a
07:08:50 [Ryladog]
AH: There are practices to work out around searches
07:09:20 [Ryladog]
AH: when you have multiple features that need metadata
07:09:37 [Ryladog]
AH: this is hard but can be done I think
07:09:58 [andy]
q+
07:10:38 [MichaelC]
ack a
07:10:44 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: there are problems in some cases with search engines
07:11:13 [Ryladog]
AH:The UA will addapt the indivuidual objects bo matter the doc type and device
07:11:51 [jcraig]
q+ to mention Alex Russell's article, than most of you are going to hate, but deserves a read in the context of this metadata initiative http://infrequently.org/2013/11/long-term-web-semantics/
07:11:57 [jcraig]
ack me
07:11:57 [Zakim]
jcraig, you wanted to mention Alex Russell's article, than most of you are going to hate, but deserves a read in the context of this metadata initiative
07:11:59 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: is gcapiel
07:12:01 [Zakim]
... http://infrequently.org/2013/11/long-term-web-semantics/
07:12:08 [jcraig]
http://infrequently.org/2013/11/long-term-web-semantics/
07:12:24 [Ryladog]
JC: This is Alex Russel who is the author of DoJo
07:12:29 [jasonjgw]
q+
07:12:35 [janina_]
q?
07:13:04 [Ryladog]
JC: One conclusion he makes the role of SEs is not to parse metadata
07:13:15 [andy]
q+
07:13:33 [Ryladog]
JC: He takes a hard stance against linked data
07:14:33 [Ryladog]
JC: He asserts it is too complicated for web authors - he may have some valid points here
07:15:04 [MichaelC]
ack
07:15:08 [MichaelC]
ack j
07:15:29 [Ryladog]
JW: That arguement that Alex makes is problematic - one could say that about markup in generral
07:16:38 [Ryladog]
JW: We need to solve the underlying recognition problems - for now that appears to be authors.
07:17:18 [jcraig]
s/He asserts it is too complicated for web authors/He asserts most web authors won't add linked metadata, so it is more useful for search engines to resolving their bugs in "decoding the soup" than to expect authors to include immaculate metadata in web pages./
07:17:56 [Ryladog]
JW: My undertsnaing related to UC spe c could supply a NandP profile that would supplement hat the user provides a search query
07:18:39 [Ryladog]
JW: Needs and Prefs on one side Content on the other
07:18:42 [MichaelC]
ack a
07:19:29 [Ryladog]
AH: Good Jason. I have been around metadata about 12 years now. That is a common question. The future is not to use metadata.
07:20:09 [Ryladog]
AH: We are still in the old world. This is scaffolding, a way to go until we get to better automated processes
07:20:35 [janina_]
q?
07:20:54 [Ryladog]
AH: I work on preference - b/c the metadata scaffold for now - but in the future we will continue to define the prefrences
07:21:29 [andy]
q+
07:21:58 [Ryladog]
JC: The use case searching for video that Jason brought up - that idea is grand. If YouTube knows aboit there captions
07:22:38 [jcraig]
s/the author of DoJo/the author of Dojo, and now works on Chrome/
07:22:40 [Ryladog]
JC: There is a lot of talk
07:23:19 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: the eaasier we make it for authors the better. Plugin for Wordpress - let have the plugin insert the metadata
07:23:37 [andy]
q-
07:23:49 [jcraig]
s/If YouTube knows aboit there captions/If a video site knows about its captions and can sprinkle in that microdata, great. It may make for better search results./
07:24:04 [Ryladog]
JS: Thank you to Gerardo, for coming. And your ideas
07:24:49 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: Brian G is a wizkid with A11Y for dynamic apps such as jQuery - as a developer he would be a good person to get info from
07:25:07 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: I will read up on IndeUI only a little bit
07:25:18 [Ryladog]
JC: Please reads the User Context spec
07:25:52 [Ryladog]
JC: example, Check to see if an author wants captions
07:26:17 [jcraig]
s/There is a lot of talk/I just wanted to point out the article, b/c I see a lot of the same ideas get recycled in the groups working on large-scale metadata initiatives./
07:26:21 [andy]
q+
07:26:28 [Ryladog]
JS: We are trying for a first draft soonish and finding implementors
07:26:51 [Ryladog]
JS: If you have something we can start talking ti UAs about that would be great
07:27:09 [Ryladog]
rrsagent, make minutes
07:27:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
07:27:29 [Ryladog]
Gerardo:We will add this to our agenda
07:27:41 [janina_]
q?
07:27:46 [janina_]
ack a
07:28:21 [Ryladog]
AH: We need to bring it up to 7 and a Best Practice Guide based on version 7
07:29:28 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: We need to update our guide, they should map to the IndieUI and A11Y metadata
07:29:49 [andy]
q-
07:31:22 [Ryladog]
JC: we are considering some of the UC fit into CSS, but other do not fit well. How were you thinking that a search engine would get information out for limited seach results
07:31:33 [andy]
q+
07:31:58 [Ryladog]
JC: How do we let the US know about it, for Search engines to find it
07:32:41 [Ryladog]
JC: exampke, Simplified Interface - how would that best be specified?
07:33:01 [Ryladog]
JC: Now or 2.0
07:33:12 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: that may be a privacy issue
07:33:18 [jasonjgw]
q+
07:33:29 [Ryladog]
JC: we have a good story for provacy I think
07:34:19 [Ryladog]
Gerardo: query string will expose your preferences
07:34:33 [janina_]
q?
07:34:47 [Ryladog]
JC: That is a second step removed that Seach engines could abstract it
07:35:12 [janina_]
ack a
07:35:27 [jeanne3]
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07:35:39 [Ryladog]
AH: It is not just the search case, it is the adaptaion on the delivery device and we need to think about how that get s in there. It is not just the browser. And goes back to conformance for UAs
07:36:57 [Ryladog]
JW: I agree with Andy. how does the AU populate the prefs? There should be requirement on the UA - we have not tarted the details of that discussion
07:37:18 [andy]
s/tarted/started/
07:37:37 [Ryladog]
JW: How will UAa populate the profiles?
07:38:22 [Ryladog]
JS: Break until 4pm, I am going o HTML for 10 or 15 minutes
07:38:31 [andy]
:-)@Katie
07:39:19 [Ryladog]
JC: What is the HTML topic?
07:39:23 [Ryladog]
JS: Bugs
07:40:07 [Ryladog]
rrsagent, make minutes
07:40:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
07:40:22 [Ryladog]
BREAK
07:40:56 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
07:41:14 [Zakim]
-James_Craig
07:41:21 [Zakim]
-Yellow_river_2
08:02:06 [jcraig]
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08:10:48 [jcraig]
Found it. #html-wg
08:11:00 [jcraig]
s/Found it. #html-wg//
08:18:37 [MichaelC]
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08:20:15 [andy]
ok thanks Michael - let me know here please when I need to start again
08:26:09 [kurosawa_]
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MichaelC has joined #indie-ui
08:51:49 [andy]
brb 5 mins, making tea
08:57:31 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has joined #indie-ui
08:58:14 [Zakim]
+Yellow_river_2
09:00:18 [andy]
i didn't hear that at all its so bad
09:00:27 [andy]
I'll ring off and try again
09:00:41 [Zakim]
-Andy_Heath
09:00:54 [Zakim]
+??P6
09:02:46 [Zakim]
-Yellow_river_2
09:02:57 [Zakim]
+Yellow_river_2
09:03:40 [MichaelC]
zakim, who is on the phone?
09:03:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Yellow_river_2, ??P6
09:03:41 [Zakim]
Yellow_river_2 has Gerardo_Capiel
09:03:41 [Zakim]
-Yellow_river_2
09:04:10 [andy]
no sound - should I disconnect and call in again ?
09:05:29 [andy]
still there ?
09:06:25 [Zakim]
+Yellow_river_2
09:06:45 [MichaelC]
zakim, who is on the phone?
09:06:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Yellow_river_2, ??P6
09:06:46 [Zakim]
Yellow_river_2 has Gerardo_Capiel
09:06:54 [andy]
no sound here
09:07:07 [Zakim]
-Yellow_river_2
09:07:14 [andy]
do you guys have normal sound on the phone?
09:07:27 [janina_]
ack a
09:07:33 [andy]
ok looks like you are having problems getting on
09:07:42 [janina_]
Working on it ...
09:07:48 [Zakim]
+Yellow_river_2
09:08:05 [Ryladog]
Ryladog has joined #Indie-UI
09:08:28 [andy]
is anyone else called in having problems or is it just me?
09:08:55 [andy]
(now I know what I put you all through in the past ;-) )
09:09:23 [andy]
can't hear
09:09:30 [andy]
is anyone else called in or just me?
09:10:01 [andy]
ok I'll restart a few things - the problem may be at my end
09:10:10 [andy]
working on it
09:10:17 [Zakim]
-??P6
09:10:49 [Zakim]
-Yellow_river_2
09:10:50 [Zakim]
Team_(indie-ui)06:02Z has ended
09:10:50 [Zakim]
Attendees were Yellow_river_2, Andy_Heath, Katie_Haritos-Shea, James_Craig, Gerardo_Capiel
09:11:27 [Zakim]
Team_(indie-ui)06:02Z has now started
09:11:35 [Zakim]
+??P3
09:11:49 [andy]
It says I'm the first participant
09:11:56 [andy]
in the conference
09:11:58 [Zakim]
-??P3
09:12:00 [Zakim]
Team_(indie-ui)06:02Z has ended
09:12:00 [Zakim]
Attendees were
09:12:12 [Zakim]
Team_(indie-ui)06:02Z has now started
09:12:18 [Zakim]
+??P3
09:12:29 [andy]
Katie I don't think I have your Skype handle
09:12:39 [Ryladog]
ryladog
09:12:40 [andy]
andy_heath_
09:13:28 [andy]
can you ok the contact request please Katie
09:13:38 [MichaelC]
s/ryladog//
09:13:43 [MichaelC]
s/andy_heath_//
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09:20:44 [MichaelC]
Copying my notes from Events discussion this morning
09:20:49 [MichaelC]
Events Requirements
09:20:49 [MichaelC]
1.2 Goals
09:20:49 [MichaelC]
Provide an API layer to define user intended events that is agnostic of the specific input methodology and independent of a user's particular platform, hardware, locale, and preferences.
09:20:49 [MichaelC]
Allow the API to support user commands without requiring specific physical events.
09:20:50 [MichaelC]
1.3 Scope
09:20:51 [MichaelC]
Do not require specific physical user interactions (keyboard combinations, gestures, speech, etc.) to trigger particular IndieUI events.
09:20:54 [MichaelC]
1.5 Backwards Compatibility
09:20:56 [MichaelC]
Structure the events such that they are only triggered if the application registers an interest in them, to optimize performance and allow backwards compatibility.
09:20:59 [MichaelC]
Provide a way for applications to communicate that a given event request was or was not handled so the host OS or UA can attempt fallback behaviour.
09:21:02 [MichaelC]
Do not block standard events when listening for IndieUI events. ISSUE-15 may impact this.
09:21:04 [MichaelC]
Provide a way to "reset" ui-actions on descendant node. ISSUE-15 may impact this.
09:21:08 [MichaelC]
2. UI Actions
09:21:09 [jasonjgw]
q+
09:21:10 [MichaelC]
Allow event delegation without affecting performance and scoping of events. ISSUE-16 impacts this.
09:21:12 [MichaelC]
<possibly other requirements after we clarify implications of this structure>
09:21:14 [MichaelC]
3. UI Request Events
09:21:16 [MichaelC]
There will be a requirement for how IndieUI events fit in with the order of other events ISSUE-15
09:21:18 [MichaelC]
Might need a requirement to be able to associate an IndieUI event with other related physical events ISSUE-15
09:21:21 [MichaelC]
3.1 UIRequestEvent
09:21:23 [MichaelC]
IndieUI Events must extend UIEvents unless the IndieUI requirements are met directly in UI Events.
09:21:25 [MichaelC]
IndieUI must support the following functions unless supported by other technologies: undo, redo, expand, collapse, dismiss, delete, move, pan, rotation, scroll, valuechange, zoom
09:21:28 [MichaelC]
Support linear navigation for first, previous, next, and last.
09:21:30 [MichaelC]
Support directional navigation for (8 cardinal direction).
09:21:32 [MichaelC]
Provide a mechanism for users to move focus non-linearly to other sections of the document such as toolbar, palette, and windows.
09:21:37 [MichaelC]
Provide a way to navigate amongst landmark regions. This may be at risk in 1.0 and could be pushed to future version. Might be a11y specific.
09:21:40 [MichaelC]
Provide a way for users to return to their previous point of regard, like emacs and vid and IDEs support. This does not have consensus yet. Need to determine if it is just keyboard or others as well. Could be pushed to future version. Seems to have general use cases.
09:24:46 [janina_]
q?
09:24:52 [janina_]
ack j
09:25:32 [andy]
q+
09:27:11 [janina_]
ack a
09:31:40 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
09:31:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/14-indie-ui-minutes.html MichaelC
09:32:47 [jasonjgw]
q+
09:38:08 [MichaelC]
q-
09:38:16 [MichaelC]
ack j
09:40:01 [janina]
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09:48:43 [Zakim]
-??P3
09:48:44 [Zakim]
Team_(indie-ui)06:02Z has ended
09:48:44 [Zakim]
Attendees were
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