01:24:40 RRSAgent has joined #webscreens 01:24:40 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-webscreens-irc 01:47:42 trackbot has joined #webscreens 01:49:06 rrsagent, generate minutes 01:49:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-webscreens-minutes.html anssik 01:49:51 rrsagent, set logs world-visible 01:51:14 meeting: Second Screen Presentation TPAC Breakout Session 01:54:02 agenda: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2013/session-second-screen-web 01:54:40 rrsagent, generate minutes 01:54:40 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-webscreens-minutes.html anssik 01:57:45 scribe: anssik 01:57:50 scribeNick: anssik 01:58:20 chair: drott 01:58:29 rrsagent, generate minutes 01:58:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-webscreens-minutes.html anssik 03:33:08 Zakim has left #webscreens 03:34:05 anssik has joined #webscreens 03:36:41 Zakim has joined #webscreens 05:21:47 drott has joined #webscreens 06:39:18 Zakim has left #webscreens 06:44:02 drott has joined #webscreens 07:09:21 Zakim has joined #webscreens 07:10:48 jcverdie has joined #webscreens 07:11:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-webscreens-minutes.html anssik 07:12:42 Kiyoshi has joined #webscreens 07:14:13 jcverdie has joined #webscreens 07:15:08 wonsuk has joined #webscreens 07:15:46 Yudong has joined #webscreens 07:15:53 Takahiro has joined #webscreens 07:15:56 Kiyoshi has joined #webscreens 07:16:02 youenn_ has joined #webscreens 07:16:05 hisa has joined #webscreens 07:16:41 israelh has joined #webscreens 07:16:50 shan has joined #webscreens 07:16:59 olivier has joined #webscreens 07:17:41 aizu has joined #webscreens 07:18:03 stakagi has joined #webscreens 07:18:18 TOPIC: Intro 07:18:40 [Dominik shows some slides on the screen, material to be shared after the meeting.] 07:18:59 are the slides available on the CG page or somewhere? 07:19:29 ooops thx anssik:) 07:19:29 ChristianFuhrhop has joined #webscreens 07:20:32 razybon_ has joined #webscreens 07:21:44 Q: what is the difference in the definition of the "second screen" in this context re Web & TV? 07:22:12 gwm has joined #webscreens 07:22:22 A: in the TV context, TV is the primary, whereas in this proposal the UA is the primary driver 07:22:57 Is chromecast contained in the use case of second screen? 07:23:24 (rumors in the room from web&tv fellows who tend to disagree with the previous statement) 07:23:49 gmandyam has joined #webscreens 07:24:12 Tomoyuki has joined #webscreens 07:24:26 mounir_ has joined #webscreens 07:25:53 confirmation that a UA could connect to many screens. whether the application would be able to discover/select many targets is uncertain 07:26:42 scribe: jcverdie 07:27:00 demo of a firefoxOS game projected on a laptop 07:27:19 the mobile phone turns into a cntrol center while the game is displayed on the big screen 07:27:44 (public can see the demonstrator is not a very good driver :p) 07:27:50 nigel has joined #webscreens 07:28:32 @@@: how many lines of codes changed to enable remote display 07:28:48 @@@: not that many, circa 200 lines 07:29:36 s/@@@/anssik/ 07:30:01 someone in the back of the room: what is displayed on the second screen? 07:30:12 anssik: it's a navigator window. it's an URL 07:30:27 ... the second demo is a picture gallery 07:30:48 s/someone in the back of the room/Marcus Altman 07:31:47 (image with small description on mobile, fullscreen image on secondscreen) 07:32:52 anssik: demo of a hacked youtube page. opens a window on second screen and launches youtube player there 07:33:21 ... the demo needs a network connection faster than 33.6 Kbps. Not working here 07:33:54 s/annsik/dominik/g 07:34:24 is the only visible browser window shared, or is the whole OS screen to be shared? 07:34:34 ddavis has joined #webscreens 07:34:56 dominik: we're using the OS facilities @@@ 07:35:31 hongbo: for instance we're using Android SDK to control second display 07:35:39 anssik if you want to take over feel free ;) 07:35:51 richt has joined #webscreens 07:36:45 dominik: we are trying to use a common ground and rely on OS facilities 07:37:08 ... for instance most desktop OS show something as soon as you connect, it's fine 07:37:40 doug: if I want to share a part of my screen e.g. a keynote and a comment window 07:38:11 ... I'd do this using CSS w/ different styles 07:38:15 DougS: I want to share only a part of the screen, not the whole screen, I'd like to use CSS for that 07:38:37 Dominik: we've considered that option 07:38:52 dominik: our initial solution uses API so you can author your content 07:39:55 giuseppe: it's two windows, not 2 divs 07:40:03 ddavis: url for the demo ? 07:40:23 dominik: these demo depend on specific versions of chromium and we haven't released the code 07:40:36 TOPIC: Presentation API 07:40:52 visible online webscreens.github.io/presentation-api 07:41:06 http://webscreens.github.io/presentation-api 07:41:21 dominik: abstracts physical display techs 07:41:41 ... a little bit like fullscreen API for nearby tv 07:41:50 ... here's the IDL of the API preview 07:42:02 q+ giuseppe 07:42:34 (dominik describes the IDL) 07:43:03 dominik: there's a boolean displayAvailable to tell you have something available 07:43:30 Yudong has joined #webscreens 07:43:35 q+ 07:43:36 ... and an event to be notified when there are some changes 07:44:01 (now a sample code of the two pages code, one for 1st screen, one for second screen) 07:44:21 q+ to ask about capability check of second screen in the IDL 07:45:39 dominik: you can use post messages to communicate between screens 07:45:46 ack gi 07:46:58 giuseppe: when the CG was create it seemed that you were not considering the case where there are two user agents running, just one. Now you're saying this case is considered 07:47:06 dominik: i think it's in scope 07:47:43 ... we have tried a variation of this API in such a case, new questions come up 07:47:55 giuseppe: there is already this discussion in other groups 07:48:04 https://github.com/webscreens/presentation-api/wiki/Second-Screen-Community-Group-Charter 07:48:22 q? 07:48:38 ack mo 07:48:58 sangwhan has joined #webscreens 07:49:07 q+ mounir_ 07:49:12 ddavis: the device discovery is done separately 07:49:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 07:49:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-webscreens-minutes.html sangwhan 07:49:33 dominik: it uses the OS to do this, it's not part of the spec 07:50:03 ddavis: what about availability? 07:50:25 dominik: in a simple way. it basically replaces windows.open on another screen 07:50:59 anssik: it's automatically the "open new window move it to second screen" 07:51:15 q? 07:51:21 q+ 07:51:29 ack me 07:51:32 q+ 07:51:42 ack jcverdie 07:51:42 jcverdie, you wanted to ask about capability check of second screen in the IDL 07:51:51 ack me 07:52:01 jcverdie: what about capabilities of the second screen? 07:52:02 ywu has joined #webscreens 07:52:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-webscreens-minutes.html anssik 07:52:15 dominik: we struggle about the requirements (nearby, ...) 07:52:29 ... but that could be added 07:52:32 ack mo 07:52:37 Yudong has joined #webscreens 07:53:31 mounir_: you can't really now where is the second screen. @@@ (missed the end of the question) 07:53:39 dominik: our goal is a simple API 07:54:19 anssik: we should discuss this in the context of SysApps WG 07:55:07 mounir_: what about permission? 07:55:19 anssik: our priority is to make it available 07:55:43 +1 nigel 07:55:45 s/what about permission?/this is not something very sensitive except fingerprinting [...]/ 07:55:57 giuseppep has joined #webscreens 07:56:52 richt: are you planning to specify how it works (discovery, connectivity), sounds like black magic so far 07:57:28 dominik: in our idea, that would be an extension to the OS and from the browser it would just be a secondary display 07:57:49 q? 07:57:55 ack richt 07:57:55 ack ric 07:57:57 ack richt 07:58:33 dominik: community group 07:58:40 ... mozilla expressed interest and joined 07:58:44 richt: UPnP is encumbered - there could be patent issues if you're thinking of the user agent incorporating this. 07:59:12 .. we're done part of implementation but we're eager to get more information and use cases 07:59:23 ... slides will be made available from the session wiki page 07:59:50 session wiki page -> http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2013/session-second-screen-web 07:59:55 ... thanks attendance 08:00:37 philipp h: have you got a timeframe to move to a WG? 08:00:42 rrsagent, draft minutes 08:00:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-webscreens-minutes.html olivier 08:01:16 anssik: when there's enough momentum. when we have a better idea of what work we have to do, and we get enough support 08:01:23 richt: which WG? 08:01:40 anssik: any group with good participation 08:02:00 dino: what is a "good level of support"? 08:02:26 anssik: we need interoperable implementations for instance 08:02:51 @@@: are you assuming a single second screen? 08:03:23 anssik: right now it's a simplified API 08:03:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-webscreens-minutes.html anssik 08:03:41 ... but it's possible to perform the same API twice and eventually get a second second screen (pun intended) 08:03:59 s/anssik/dominik 08:06:22 jcverdie: i am concerned by the fact you say now you are considering the case of two UA, while you said in the mailing list initially you didn't 08:06:45 ... you need to clarify which goal you are pursuing, I am afraid of potential overlap 08:06:55 dominik: i agree we need to clarify 08:07:26 giuseppe: may be it is worth exploring, but you need to clarify 08:07:51 jcverdie: to be clear, i'm just asking for clarification, i'm not saying i'm against it 08:08:31 dino: sometimes your second screen has more power and it makes sense it opens a UA 08:09:53 .. also you need to poll for new displays, detect if some new display goes online or offline, if there's delay in the display on 2nd screen, ... 08:10:05 dominik: we'll need additional events yes 08:10:43 dino: likely a big use case will be to display a video 08:10:54 israelh has joined #webscreens 08:10:58 q 08:11:06 ... may be just ask for a specific object to go to the second screen 08:11:22 q+ israelh 08:11:23 giuseppe: it would be like a "requestSecondScreen" similar to request Fullscreen 08:11:47 ack isr 08:12:32 israelh: what about the UI of the user agent (such as geolocation popup, ...) 08:13:02 .. where would the question go? 08:13:27 dominik: at this point we don't expect any interaction on the second screen, everything would need to be covered on 1st screen but no use case so far 08:13:29 q? 08:13:43 rrsagent, generate minutes 08:13:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-webscreens-minutes.html jcverdie 08:14:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-webscreens-minutes.html anssik 08:16:45 giuseppep has joined #webscreens 08:34:02 olivier has left #webscreens 08:35:42 Takahiro has joined #webscreens 09:40:08 Takahiro has joined #webscreens 09:56:30 Takahiro_ has joined #webscreens 10:02:50 ddavis has joined #webscreens 10:14:32 Zakim has left #webscreens