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07:15:26 <dom> Meeting: How to involve Telcos in W3C (TPAC breaktout)
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07:16:32 <dom> Chair: Qinling Pan, Ruinan SUn, Gang Liang
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07:17:08 <dom> GangLiang: Huawei, focused on standards work
07:17:27 <dom> @@@: Huawei
07:17:29 <dom> Dom: W3C
07:17:40 <dom> @@@: Sony
07:17:43 <dom> Sam: W3C BizDev
07:17:59 <dom> @@@Cheng: Microsoft China Team
07:18:15 <dom> QinlingPan: Huawei; W3C AB
07:18:28 <dom> ... before W3C, I've been involved in 3GPP, IETF, OMA
07:18:42 <dom> ... want to share today our thoughts how telecos can work with Web technologies
07:18:43 <Ruinan> s/ @@@: Huawei/Kepeng Li: Huawei
07:18:59 <dom> ... We still have some unclear areas how vendors and telcos can work in W3C
07:19:19 <dom> @@@: KDDI, visiting researcher in Keio University
07:19:34 <dom> ___: SK telecom (in Korea)
07:19:46 <dom> RuinanSun: Huawei AC Rep
07:19:59 <dom> GangLiang: [present slides]
07:20:26 <dom> ... both operators and network equipment providers have gotten involved in W3C
07:20:40 <dom> ... that's a clear sign they see the importance of the Web to their business
07:20:52 <dom> ... internet economy extends to the real economy
07:21:00 <dom> ... everything is moving to digital
07:21:22 <dom> ... Web technology have been and will be widely used everywhere, every time
07:21:32 <dom> ... more and more people use their mobile to access the network
07:21:44 <dom> ... I think this will be the main trend in the future
07:22:00 <dom> ... Web technologies have affected telecoms
07:22:21 <dom> ... social networks provide services similar to telecoms, e.g. audio/video call, file transfer, messaging
07:22:34 <dom> ... telcos revenues have been falling year over year
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07:23:09 <dom> ... (diagrams illustrating how OTT are increasing while revenues of telecos are decreasing)
07:23:15 <dom> ... the global mobile 3G subscribers is growing very quickly
07:23:33 <dom> ... up from 1.1B to 1.59B last year (globally)
07:24:28 <dom> ... another trend is the increasing share of smartphone usage, with their underlying platforms (e.g. android, tizen)
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07:25:14 <dom> s/___/InGeeKim/
07:25:34 <dom> ... increasingly mobile phones are used to access internet
07:25:57 <dom> ... mobile traffic represents 10% of total internet traffic
07:26:11 <dom> s/@@@Cheng/LingCheng/
07:26:40 <dom> ... openness is very important to telecom — a lot of operators open their ecosystem to 3rd parties, users
07:27:10 <dom> ... OMA has developed RESTful APIs to provide standards interfaces for that
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07:27:32 <dom> ... including an open connection manager API, and a Web Runtime API
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07:28:07 <dom> ... these make it easier for Web developers to get access to these services
07:28:23 <dom> ... European operators and some from China have opened up their platforms using these APIs
07:28:37 <dom> ... Operators have also telecom quality of service imperatives
07:29:16 <dom> ... they have to manage how bandwidth is spread across users depending on theirs needs
07:29:27 <dom> ... via load balancing, congestion control
07:29:47 <dom> ... What are the advantages of telecom they can use?
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07:29:52 <dom> ... a large base of subscribers
07:30:01 <dom> ... mobility is extremely popular
07:30:23 <dom> ... we have already an open platform that can be reused and offered via APIs
07:30:32 <dom> ... QoS is another asset
07:31:08 <dom> ... The topic we wanted to raise today are:
07:31:20 <dom> ... * how telecom should get involved in W3C?
07:31:54 <dom> ... almost all mobile companies, incl network vendors and operators, have to bring influence in requirements
07:32:19 <dom> ... we need browsers to support considerations around service priority, congestion control, etc
07:32:54 <dom> ... W3C has ongoing important work relevant to us, WebRTC, WebTV; it's important that operators look at what kind of APIs they can bring to the table
07:34:26 <dom> Dom: Payments sounds like a pretty good match for operators
07:34:52 <dom> Qinling: not only operators can provide service here; internet companies have a strong role
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07:36:19 <dom> Dom: clearly operators will be in a competition with other systems
07:36:41 <dom> ... they have to rely on their assets (strong billing system, large subscriber base)
07:37:02 <Ruinan> taobao pay
07:37:09 <BoYang> www.taobao.com
07:37:13 <dom> Qingling: taobaoo is a very popular internet based solution in China
07:37:29 <dom> ... will be difficult for operators to compete with it
07:38:24 <dom> LingCheng: operators have a strong system to charge on mobile
07:38:48 <dom> ... Another advantage in China, China operators have a strong advantage in their connection with banks
07:39:14 <dom> ... Either China Mobile or China Unicom have an agreement with a bank to enable NFC-based payment
07:39:50 <dom> ChinaMobilePerson: we can enable payments via cell phone without a credit card
07:40:10 <Ruinan> s/ChinaMobilePerson/BoYang
07:40:31 <dom> ... we require developers to be certified before they can access this payment system
07:41:10 <dom> ... Part of our difficulties is actually to get agreements with each or every bank
07:41:22 <dom> ... we don't have an advantage in this
07:42:00 <dom> Ruinan: it's hard for operators to support many business model
07:42:16 <dom> ... they would need to use very different billing systems
07:42:39 <dom> DKA: in Europe, operators are regulated into what they can use their billing system to pay for
07:43:01 <dom> ... forbidden to e.g. pay a cup of coffee
07:43:14 <Kepeng> q?
07:43:16 <dom> ... there were even worries about extending it to e.g. mobile apps
07:43:26 <dom> ... Paypal can do what ever they want
07:43:57 <dom> ... We have a program deployed in Spain on Google Market and Microsoft app store, and in UK on Microsoft app store
07:44:12 <dom> ... you can pay with your mobile phone number in a very seamless manner
07:44:27 <dom> ... (they don't have to enter their PIN codes)
07:44:40 <dom> ... available for low cost operations
07:45:14 <dom> ... program also available in Mexico
07:45:44 <dom> ... Google e.g. was very eager to get access to the operator system payment, as this removes a barrier to people buying apps
07:45:58 <dom> Qinling: how much changes were needed in your billing system to enable this?
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07:46:13 <dom> DKA: some, but mostly small, and mostly in the middleware system
07:46:31 <dom> SonyPerson: did that need to ship with special software?
07:46:44 <dom> DKA: the client is shipped by Google / Microsoft
07:46:52 <dom> ... and then there is server integration
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07:47:21 <dom> ... currently not standardized; this is close to what GSMA had suggested in OneAPI, but we haven't seen much commercial adoption of that API
07:47:28 <Ruinan> s/SonyPerson/Tatsuy_Sony
07:47:46 <dom> ... Standardization would be useful, but most of the time, the API being used is imposed by the partner (e.g. Google)
07:49:33 <dom> RyochiKawada: can you clarify the goals of listing operator advantages here? is it for people to join W3C?
07:50:14 <dom> GangLiang: goals is to understand what we come in the market with and how W3C can help us use these advantages
07:50:26 <dom> DKA: I think the perspective you've presented is closer to the "traditional" view of operators business
07:50:45 <dom> ... One thing that Telefonica Digital is trying to push another approach to this
07:50:54 <dom> ... e.g. our collaboration with Firefox on FirefoxOS
07:51:08 <dom> ... or TokBox that uses WebRTC
07:51:20 <dom> ... Telecom companies are shifting their model to incorporate more internet services
07:51:27 <dom> ... and/or combine them with telco services
07:51:50 <dom> ... For these, WebRTC, SysApps, WebApps, Web Payments, Data on the Web are very importnat
07:51:57 <dom> s/nat/ant/
07:52:16 <dom> Ruinan: so the idea is to reuse internet technologies to provide them the end user
07:52:37 <dom> ... what is the benefit to integrate them with existing systems?
07:52:53 <dom> DKA: we have an app available in the UK, soon in Argentina, called Tugo
07:52:55 <BoYang> Tugo?
07:53:14 <dom> ... it's a voip application that incorporates messaging and voice
07:53:22 <dom> ... it uses WebRTC
07:53:39 <dom> ... but it's not a pure voip solution : it integrates in our corenetwork
07:54:41 <dom> ... it uses the internet to integrate to my operator network even when I'm not connected to my operator network
07:55:14 <dom> ... applicable to roaming situations, underground disconnectivity, multi-devices usage
07:55:47 <dom> ... an additional advantage is that it even reduces our bandwidth usage
07:56:03 <dom> ... it's an example of hybrid application of teleco/internet services
07:56:18 <BoYang> same fee for voip and cs call?
07:57:08 <dom> ... we want to extend that to other examples (e.g. video)
07:57:18 <dom> Dom: this shows that phone number is also a big assets operaetors have
07:57:38 <dom> LingChen: huge opportunity here for operators
07:57:58 <dom> ... IMS gateway to WebRTC
07:58:40 <dom> Ruinan: W3C has many internet players, but harder to find momentum behind operators proposals
07:59:51 <dom> ... Push API has been proposed by operators but have lacked adoption
07:59:57 <dom> DKA: Firefox will implement it
08:00:14 <dom> ... hopefully with the PAG now being resolved, others will follow suite
08:00:32 <dom> Dom: Push API is a pretty advantage for operators if they manage to bring other players in this space
08:00:53 <dom> ... Safari has been shipping a similar API for their desktop which shows the need is broader than just telecos
08:01:33 <dom> GangLiang: how would you deploy Push on your network? (@@@ not sure)
08:01:47 <dom> DKA: big debate on the future of RCS; lots of disagreement in this space
08:01:55 <dom> ... Telefonica is to have a foot in both camps
08:02:04 <dom> s/ca/ca's approach/
08:02:16 <dom> ... We have tugo for WebRTC, and Joyn for RCS
08:02:24 <dom> ... we're seeing more commercial success with TuGo
08:02:35 <dom> ... from a revenue perspective
08:03:20 <dom> Ruinan: W3C focus has been on the client side
08:03:31 <dom> ... Operators have traditionally focused on the network side of standardization
08:03:57 <dom> ... For instance, Push API is only defining the API used by the browser, not what's the underlying system used to Push
08:04:32 <dom> DKA: by design; it's something configurable and get configured when the device gets shipped
08:04:37 <dom> ... it's a user configurable
08:04:44 <dom> LingChen: W3C works on the API
08:04:50 <dom> ... IETF looks at the protocol layer
08:05:18 <dom> ... Assuming W3C stays focused on APIs, what is the opportunity for operators to look at that layer?
08:05:37 <dom> BoYang: we need a unified API across vendors
08:05:56 <dom> ... it's important for us to have compatibility across browsers
08:06:11 <dom> ... we don't care about the details of the API, as long as it matches our requirements
08:06:19 <dom> ... (for WebRTC)
08:07:19 <dom> LingChen: Imagine Baidu develops an OTT application on top of Firefox
08:07:40 <dom> ... how would you compete with them with a Firefox app?
08:07:52 <dom> BoYang: we would let the market choose what work best for users
08:08:13 <dom> ... Even if Baidu does it, that doesn't mean we should not provide a solution
08:08:41 <dom> LingChen: I guess the key is for operators is to find what unique advantages operators have that they can push into W3C work
08:08:49 <dom> BoYang: we do want to make the best app out there
08:09:06 <dom> ... but it's clear we can't assume we will win by being the only providers
08:09:22 <dom> ... it used to be geolocation was something only operators could provide via cell towers
08:09:36 <dom> ... now there are many other ways to get the same
08:10:01 <dom> Qinling: operators are no longer the only one in position to provide a service
08:10:14 <dom> ... they have to compete on the market
08:10:18 <dom> BoYang: for instance, we can provide a much better customer service
08:11:04 <dom> Qinling: but this becomes harder are things are moving to the service layer
08:11:19 <dom> Ruinan: internet companies have shown their abilities to deploy new services much more quickly
08:11:38 <dom> DKA: that's why operators have moving to similar approaches as OTT companies
08:11:42 <dom> ... e.g. Telefonica digital
08:12:03 <dom> ... although plugging into legacy systems remain always long and difficult$
08:12:18 <dom> ... but once you've plugged it, it opens a lot of new possibilities in terms of services and applications
08:12:49 <dom> Ryoichi: I think operators are more focused on the network side
08:13:42 <dom> @@@: operators can also integrate with existing OTT services to create new business opps
08:13:49 <dom> s/@@@/KepengLi/
08:14:04 <dom> ... we discussed advantages in payments
08:14:15 <dom> ... others include possibly geolocation; Web identity
08:14:32 <dom> ... part of the discussions is what advantages we can exploit more quickly
08:14:40 <dom> Tatsuya: I think we need to look at this at a higher level
08:14:53 <dom> ... there are two layers we can look at
08:14:57 <dom> ... @@@
08:15:14 <dom> ... and APIs to access hardware feature
08:15:54 <dom> ... Should W3C also focus on APIs that build on operators advantage?
08:16:21 <dom> KepengLi: the TTML Working Group is looking at a simplified profile for mobile
08:18:45 <dom> Dom: My goal with the Web and Mobile IG was to enable that kind of discussion
08:19:04 <dom> s/Qiling/Qiuling/g
08:19:18 <dom> RRSAgent, make log public
08:19:20 <dom> RRSAgent, draft minutes
08:19:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-teleweb-minutes.html dom
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