15:59:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
15:59:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-rdf-wg-irc
15:59:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:59:55 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
15:59:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
15:59:57 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:58 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:59:58 <trackbot> Date: 13 November 2013
16:00:08 <AndyS> zakim, this is 73394
16:00:08 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
16:00:25 <Zakim> +??P1
16:00:26 <Zakim> -??P1
16:00:26 <Zakim> +??P1
16:00:31 <Zakim> +Arnaud
16:00:31 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P1
16:00:32 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
16:00:56 <Zakim> +pfps
16:00:58 <yvesr> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:00:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, gkellogg, Arnaud, pfps
16:01:03 <Zakim> +GavinC
16:01:06 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P0 is yvesr
16:01:06 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
16:01:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:01:29 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me
16:01:29 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
16:01:42 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-wg
16:02:07 <PatH> PatH has joined #rdf-wg
16:02:23 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
16:03:23 <Zakim> + +1.781.642.aaaa
16:03:42 <Zakim> +AZ
16:04:54 <Zakim> +David_Wood
16:05:08 <davidwood> Zakim, who is here?
16:05:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, gkellogg, Arnaud, pfps, GavinC, AndyS, +1.781.642.aaaa, AZ, David_Wood
16:05:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see AZ, PatH, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, TallTed, AndyS, trackbot, davidwood, gkellogg, Arnaud, yvesr, manu, sandro, ericP
16:05:28 <AZ> scribe: AZ
16:06:02 <PatH> ill be on the phone in minute
16:06:02 <AZ> topic: Admin
16:06:09 <davidwood> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 6 Nov telecon:
16:06:09 <davidwood> 
16:06:09 <davidwood>    https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-11-06
16:06:24 <AndyS> +1
16:06:26 <Zakim> +stevebattle7
16:06:36 <davidwood> RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 6 Nov telecon: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-11-06
16:06:50 <ericP> Zakim, stevebattle7 is temporarily me
16:06:50 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
16:07:30 <davidwood> Review of action items
16:07:30 <davidwood> Proposed to spend 10 minutes clean action-item list:
16:07:30 <davidwood> 
16:07:30 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview
16:07:30 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open
16:07:40 <AZ> davidwood: we have a lot of action items, some have to be cleaned
16:07:57 <sandro> https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/users/my
16:09:01 <Zakim> +PatH
16:09:04 <AZ> davidwood: I'd like to have a draft about new features of RDF 1.1
16:09:06 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
16:09:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, gkellogg, Arnaud, pfps, GavinC, AndyS, +1.781.642.aaaa, AZ, David_Wood, ericP (muted), PatH
16:09:23 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/CR-trig-20131105/#sec-differences
16:09:42 <Zakim> +Souri
16:09:58 <AZ> gavinc: there is a section on differences between RDF 1.1 TriG and old TriG
16:10:40 <AZ> davidwood: I need point to sandro's slides
16:10:42 <markus> markus has joined #rdf-wg
16:11:20 <sandro> -> http://www.w3.org/2013/Talks/0603-rdf11/ What's New in RDF 1.1
16:11:21 <gkellogg> http://www.w3.org/News/Public/
16:11:34 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #rdf-wg
16:11:48 <AZ> gkellogg: there is not a previous version of JSON-LD to show differences
16:12:08 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-wg
16:12:32 <gkellogg> Call for review by JSON-LD has great summaries, thinks to Sandro
16:12:34 <pchampin> zakim, what is the code
16:12:34 <Zakim> I don't understand 'what is the code', pchampin
16:12:37 <sandro> -> http://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/3389 W3C Invites Implementations of five Candidate Recommendations for version 1.1 of the Resource Description Framework (RDF)
16:12:55 <sandro> Zakim, what is the code?
16:12:55 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sandro
16:13:03 <AZ> pfps: for Semantics, it's enough to show the differences in entailments, not all the technical differences
16:14:17 <Zakim> +??P15
16:14:39 <AZ> sandro: I'll probably have something ready re. ACTION 73 for next
16:14:45 <AZ> ...: week
16:14:53 <Zakim> +??P16
16:15:00 <markus> zakim, ??P16 is me
16:15:00 <Zakim> +markus; got it
16:15:21 <AZ> s/ACTION 73/ACTION 98/
16:15:26 <yvesr> yep
16:15:54 <yvesr> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-primer/index.html
16:16:05 <AZ> yvesr: Guus and I are working on the primer (ACTION-159)
16:16:22 <AZ> yvesr: it's been updated a lot
16:16:56 <AZ> davidwood: you should list previous editors
16:17:02 <ericP> ack me
16:18:16 <AZ> ericP: we will make some more days and will consider it closed if no response comes up
16:18:36 <AZ> davidwood: we should wait about a month before closing
16:19:11 <AZ> PatH: I've not yet reviewed AZ's draft, will do soon
16:19:32 <AZ> PatH: Guus sent an email saying he could not review AZ's draft
16:19:50 <AZ> davidwood: in this case, let us push the deadline to next week
16:20:30 <sandro> action-33?
16:20:30 <trackbot> action-33 -- Dan Brickley to Danbri, you wanted to note a bug in RDFS spec; it references Primer example 16 -- an example that doesn't even use rdf:value. -- due 2012-12-01 -- OPEN
16:20:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/33
16:20:37 <sandro> action-73?
16:20:37 <trackbot> action-73 -- Fabien Gandon to Implement http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-03#resolution_2 (editorial changes to RDF/XML -- due 2012-03-31 -- OPEN
16:20:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/73
16:20:40 <AZ> pfps: the easiest is to repurpose ACTION 33 onto Guus
16:21:56 <AZ> Arnaud: I proposed to work on the RDFS document, but it seemed there was not much to do, but I can help now
16:22:35 <sandro> actiion-194?
16:22:38 <sandro> action-194?
16:22:38 <trackbot> action-194 -- Guus Schreiber to Add to RDF Primary and ISSUE about multi-language representation -- due 2012-11-05 -- OPEN
16:22:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/194
16:23:12 <AZ> sandro: will check for ISSUE 73
16:24:01 <AZ> davidwood: ACTION 194 should read "Add to RDF Primer an ISSUE about multi-language representation"
16:24:13 <AZ> davidwood: but only Guus can say it is
16:25:15 <AndyS> Note licensing issues re BNF and WebIDL (for JSON-LD) - can W3C confirm?
16:25:25 <AZ> davidwood: documents published in CR, yoohoo
16:25:52 <davidwood> davidwood has changed the topic to: CR Implementations
16:25:54 <AZ> davidwood: let us postpone discussions  on Dataset semantics to next week
16:26:00 <AZ> topic: CR implementation
16:26:09 <davidwood> Implementation reports:
16:26:09 <davidwood> 
16:26:09 <davidwood>  http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/#Implementation_reports
16:26:19 <AZ> s/implementation/implementations/
16:26:25 <PatH> reading this log in isolation might be puzzling to future historians.
16:26:39 <AndyS> AndyS has changed the topic to: RDF WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.11.13
16:27:30 <gavinc> poke implementors?
16:28:07 <AZ> sandro: CR documents have links to implementation reports
16:28:41 <pfps> I just sent out direct email to a list of implementers of systems that can perform RDF entailment asking them to run the tests
16:28:46 <AZ> gavinc: we did not ask implementers to produce proper implementation reports
16:29:41 <AZ> sandro: we know most of the people who implement this spec, we can email them
16:30:03 <AZ> gavinc: implementations of Turtle probably implement other syntaxes
16:31:19 <AZ> gavinc: I'll contact people by email for this
16:31:39 <AZ> gavinc: are Andy and Gregg happy with the test suite
16:31:40 <PatH> Should we send comments on the primer to the editors at this stage or wait until later?
16:32:01 <AZ> gkellogg: happy with the test suite
16:32:28 <PatH> will do
16:32:32 <AZ> yvesr: we welcome comments to primer
16:32:42 <davidwood> 	▪	Turtle: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Candidate_Recommendation_Comments
16:32:42 <davidwood> 	▪	Other documents: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/CR_comments_Concepts_Semantics_TriG_N-Triples_N-Quads
16:32:44 <AZ> topic: CR comments
16:33:26 <AZ> davidwood: everything's been address for Turtle
16:34:06 <AZ> ericP: 13 is a nack, otherwise is fine
16:35:03 <AZ> ericP: I have to contact David Robillard to know if he wants to formally object
16:35:44 <ericP> ... over a test suite
16:35:59 <AndyS> I don't see a reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-comments/2013Feb/0031.html (want to ref it for TriG comment)
16:36:20 <davidwood> ISSUE-170
16:36:20 <trackbot> ISSUE-170 -- CR comment: Normative links to RDF-1.1 Concepts -- open
16:36:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/170
16:36:58 <Zakim> -yvesr
16:37:06 <AZ> ISSUE 170 is about ntriples and nquads that have no reference to RDF 1.1 Concepts
16:37:18 <davidwood> ISSUE-171
16:37:18 <trackbot> ISSUE-171 -- CR comment: backwards compatibility with respect to UTF-8/US-ASCII -- open
16:37:18 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/171
16:37:32 <Zakim> +??P0
16:37:36 <AZ> gavinc: ISSUE 171 is also in relation to nquads
16:37:42 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P0 is me
16:37:42 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
16:38:24 <AZ> gavinc: implementations of the previous nquads are never strictly following the old nquads specification
16:38:51 <AZ> gavinc: so I would just say "no" to handling ISSUE 171
16:39:53 <davidwood> ISSUE-172
16:39:53 <trackbot> ISSUE-172 -- CR comment: Case-sensitivity of base and prefix directives -- open
16:39:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/172
16:40:36 <AZ> gavinc: we haven't written a response to ISSUE 172
16:41:33 <AZ> gavinc: "Ack" in the page on other comments means we acknowledge (as opposed to the page for Turtle comments)
16:43:16 <AZ> gavinc: I cannot point to anything because the decision hasn't been made public
16:43:37 <AZ> AndyS: we can point to the resolution to publish as a CR
16:43:54 <AZ> topic: RDF Schema
16:44:29 <AZ> sandro: Guus did the edits
16:44:40 <AZ> davidwood: but Guus is not listed as an editor
16:44:43 <davidwood> Changes: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-schema/index.html#PER-changes
16:45:49 <AZ> davidwood: all the minor changes have been agreed upon
16:46:00 <AZ> ...: we need reviewers
16:46:05 <PatH> Is the editor list still correct?
16:46:15 <PatH> Dan B & Guha?
16:46:24 <PatH> OK
16:46:28 <sandro> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Nov/0043.html
16:46:48 <AZ> davidwood: Guus considered he should not be listed because the changes are so minor
16:46:54 <PatH> Might want to just let Guha know.
16:47:06 <AZ> davidwood: should we contact Guha and danbri to republish under his name
16:47:56 <AZ> sandro: we need to be sure Dan will not work on it anymore
16:48:38 <PatH> is giving a hard deadline related to giving a hard time?
16:49:16 <sandro> it's more like doing hard time, PatH
16:50:02 <PatH> :-)
16:50:37 <AZ> PatH: we must add  the new datatypes
16:50:38 <FabGandon> FabGandon has joined #rdf-wg
16:50:50 <pfps> +1.1
16:50:59 <PatH> +1.1 Schema
16:51:11 <sandro> +0.7 RDF 1.1: Schema
16:52:11 <AZ> ericP: the word "schema" is confusing
16:52:23 <AZ> ericP: schema usually refers to constraints
16:52:28 <gavinc> SOL... ;)
16:52:30 <AndyS> PREFIX rdfs:    <http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#>
16:52:53 <sandro> RDF 1.1 Vocabulary
16:53:16 <markus> what about just "RDFS 1.1"
16:54:12 <sandro> "The rdf: and rdfs: Namespace Document"
16:54:13 <Zakim> +karima
16:54:14 <AZ> PatH: there is not only one vocabulary
16:55:07 <FabGandon> Zakim, karima is me
16:55:08 <Zakim> +FabGandon; got it
16:55:30 <gavinc> RDF Vocabulary Description Language 1.1: RDF Schema
16:55:36 <gavinc> ... is that BETTER?!
16:56:23 <PatH> RDF 1.1 My Very FIrst RDF Vocabulary
16:56:35 <PatH> +1
16:56:37 <AZ> sandro: for many people "vocabulary" and "ontology" are synonyms
16:56:41 <Arnaud> RDF 1.1 Vocabulary Description Language: RDFS
16:56:41 <pchampin> what about "core vocabulary"?
16:57:08 <PatH> +1 to "RDFS" and not spelling it out.
16:57:11 <sandro> q?
16:57:29 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_first
16:57:44 <AZ> Arnaud: why not just rename it RDFS and not spell out
16:57:58 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#first
16:59:17 <gavinc> ... 5 weeks ...
16:59:43 <PatH> A lot of section 5 is already in an appendix in Semantics.
16:59:45 <AZ> sandro: it could go to the name space document
17:00:06 <pfps> if RDFS goes, then RDF Primer becomes more important
17:01:00 <gavinc> If < x,y > is in IEXT(I(rdfs:range)) and < u,v > is in IEXT(x) then v is in ICEXT(y)
17:01:10 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-mt/#rdfs-interpretations
17:01:12 <Zakim> -AndyS
17:01:58 <AZ> pfps: primer should have something on schema
17:02:09 <yvesr> there is something about RDFS in the primer
17:02:14 <AZ> ...: and we have to be sure that all the things in schema that matters are in primer
17:02:29 <Guus> Guus has joined #rdf-wg
17:02:38 <yvesr> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-primer/index.html#section-vocabulary
17:02:54 <yvesr> (in a section called 'RDF Vocabularies', interestingly)
17:03:13 <Zakim> -Arnaud
17:03:29 <Arnaud> pulling the document altogether seems a bit too drastic to me
17:03:58 <sandro> A triple of the form:
17:03:58 <sandro>     R rdfs:comment L
17:03:58 <sandro> states that L is a human readable description of R.
17:04:11 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_comment
17:04:35 <AZ> sandro: RDFS says what the terms informally means
17:05:01 <gavinc> rdfs:comment rdfs:range rdfs:Literal .
17:05:21 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber
17:05:38 <Zakim> -yvesr
17:05:50 <markus> +1 to create namespace documents
17:05:50 <AZ> sandro: I'd like to turn this document into 2 namespace documents
17:06:39 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_container
17:07:00 <AZ> gavinc: the two vocbaularies are completely intertwined so you would need it to be one document
17:07:09 <pfps> the discussion is about getting rid of RDF Schema document in favour of namespace documents and extra stuff in Primer
17:07:51 <davidwood> Thanks to pfps for taking over ACTION-33
17:08:55 <pfps> the actual work on RDF Schema might be worthwhile, as that stuff may end up elsewhere
17:09:08 <PatH> It contains this masterpiece which should be preserved:"Just as a hen house may have the property that it is made of wood, that does not mean that all the hens it contains are made of wood, a property of a container is not necessarily a property of all of its members."
17:09:09 <AZ> topic: AOB
17:10:13 <Zakim> -pfps
17:11:02 <AZ> gavinc: I don't think we will have XMLLiteral and rdf:HTML as normative because we won't have anything to reference
17:11:20 <PatH> They are referred to normatively in Semantics
17:11:54 <PatH> I thinkso
17:12:32 <ericP> Zakim, who is muted?
17:12:32 <Zakim> I see no one muted
17:13:48 <PatH> Seems like a very noisy post-adjournment session.
17:14:40 <davidwood> Adjourned
17:15:19 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting
17:15:19 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:15:19 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Arnaud, gkellogg, pfps, GavinC, yvesr, AndyS, +1.781.642.aaaa, AZ, David_Wood, ericP, PatH, Souri, pchampin, markus, FabGandon,
17:15:22 <Zakim> ... Guus_Schreiber
17:15:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:15:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot
17:15:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:15:28 <RRSAgent> I see no action items