IRC log of participate on 2013-11-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to
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Adrian Bateman, Microsoft
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08:35:06 [Rayberg]
Lei Zhixing, From Baidu.
08:36:06 [Qiuling]
Qiuling Pan, from Huawei
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08:36:29 [Yuer]
Min Yue, from Baidu
08:36:40 [kennyluck]
Kang-Hao (Kenny) Lu, from Opera/Oupeng.
08:36:50 [AnnBassetti]
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08:37:35 [yosuke]
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Yosuke Funahashi, Tomo-Digi
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RRSagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate koalie
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RRSAgent, make logs public
08:38:44 [koalie]
meeting: Breakout: Better Participation in W3C
08:38:51 [koalie]
chair: AnnBassetti
08:39:19 [koalie]
-> a beginner's introduction to IRC for W3C Meetings
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08:40:27 [BaopingCheng]
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08:40:28 [AnnBassetti]
project suggested by Dom:
08:40:41 [koalie]
-> Headlights2014/OnBoarding
08:41:07 [BaopingCheng]
Baoping Cheng, from China Mobile.
08:41:25 [koalie]
scribenick: koalie
08:41:36 [AnnBassetti]
Ann: now what?
08:41:40 [koalie]
AnnB: What topics do you want to cover?
08:41:54 [koalie]
KennyLu: I have several ones in the category of languages
08:42:09 [koalie]
... including people speak too fast, use jargon, etc.
08:42:16 [adrianba]
08:42:35 [koalie]
KennyLu: We realized chinese people don't have much experience with mailing list
08:42:49 [koalie]
... this might apply as well with Japaense people
08:43:01 [koalie]
08:43:38 [koalie]
AnnB: May I ask why? isn't mail used?
08:44:05 [koalie]
KennyLu: my experience is that people don't use them
08:44:26 [koalie]
... but they do use chat rooms
08:44:26 [Qiuling]
maillist is used a lot in my company
08:44:40 [koalie]
QiulingPan: We have MLs in my company
08:45:18 [koalie]
KennyLu: cultural differences may be a key point here.
08:45:53 [koalie]
Qiuling: We use MLs a lot inside the company
08:46:50 [koalie]
@@: In Huawei we use instant chat. And we hardly ever use English.
08:47:19 [koalie]
08:47:37 [Rayberg]
08:47:38 [koalie]
BernardGidon: Introduce the purpose of a mailing list
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08:48:03 [shoko_]
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08:48:16 [koalie]
... Sometimes American people introduce information in a very short way, and we need to explain afterwards
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08:48:35 [hiroto_]
Hiroto Yahagi, from W3C
08:49:30 [koalie]
Bernard: I am here to understand in which way you manage communications with people using different languages
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08:50:17 [koalie]
KennyLu: We can have CGs for each language
08:50:51 [koalie]
... The japanese Interest Group has the most chance of success because it have participants from Google and @@@, but it needs more discussion on it.
08:51:05 [koalie]
... Google has a chrome team in Japan
08:51:57 [koalie]
AnnB: If I understand, in the case of a large group of people who use a language, why not have a chat room or CG that would be in that language
08:53:49 [koalie]
YosukeFunahashi: [speaking for the IG he's in] In japanese culture people hesitate to state their opinion
08:53:58 [koalie]
... W3C Can encourage that it's OK to say an opinion
08:55:17 [kennyluck]
Japanese Interest Group mailing list archive ->
08:56:21 [koalie]
Yosuke: At the time of the automotive F2F meeting, here's what I did
08:57:12 [koalie]
... I told them japanese people tend to represent their company
08:57:23 [koalie]
s/I told them j/J/
08:57:32 [sam_sugimoto_w3c]
They are usually scared of speaking in English. They have their opinion. We can ask each person to get his/her opinion.
08:57:42 [koalie]
... so I told them that for their personal opinion they don't need to state this is their personal opinion, but,
08:58:03 [koalie]
... when they represent their company's opinion, then, they should state so.
08:58:14 [sam_sugimoto_w3c]
They don't want to stop speakers and ask him/her to speak more slowly.
08:59:22 [koalie]
@@@: I've been in my company a couple month and I'm not an engineer
08:59:34 [kennyluck]
s/Google and @@@/Google and Apple already/
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08:59:45 [koalie]
AnnB: I'm not an engineer either; happy to talk offline.
09:00:03 [koalie]
... Connecting and liaisons between W3C and our company is a good topic
09:00:32 [koalie]
@@@: in my company, engineers are very busy. They have interest but not time to devote in the org.
09:00:39 [koalie]
Qiuling: Yes, indeed.
09:00:56 [koalie]
... W3C activities sometimes isn't close to them
09:01:14 [koalie]
... to join the w3c work actively for the company, some need to have clear benefits
09:01:54 [koalie]
... find main points for them to join is a requirement in this cas
09:01:56 [koalie]
09:02:37 [koalie]
AnnB: How do we encourage people whose work isn't directly web-based?
09:02:55 [koalie]
Qiuling: you can organize discussions between these people
09:03:11 [koalie]
Sam: are mailing lists OK for that?
09:03:27 [koalie]
Qiuling: Maybe. But not if there's too much e-mail.
09:03:42 [koalie]
AnnB: it's a skill to know which ones you can ignore, and which you have to pay attention to.
09:06:27 [koalie]
Kenny: re: clear benefits, in some cases you don't need them. e.g. just naming an API name is enough for encouraging joining
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09:07:35 [koalie]
... one goal is to have silent people speak more, but another is to get more people to participate in some WGs (unlike CSS which is a well-represented WG)
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09:07:48 [koalie]
s/WGs/Mailing Lists/
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09:08:13 [koalie]
s/represented WG/subscribed list/
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RRSagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate koalie
09:09:00 [koalie]
@@@@-ChinaUnicom: I agree with several of Kenny's points on languages
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... We can try to set approach of W3C
09:09:50 [Qiuling]
09:10:02 [masahiro]
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09:10:31 [koalie]
... There is now a Host in Beijing; this group can give directions concerning W3C
09:10:52 [kennyluck]
s/one goal is to have silent people speak more/one goal is to have more people (although not many) who can speak up for a local area (like Funahashi-san for the Japanese)/
09:11:22 [koalie]
09:12:00 [koalie]
AnnB: so setting up language-based lists would help?
09:12:08 [koalie]
BaopingCheng: Yes.
09:13:13 [koalie]
Yosuke: Engineers are always busy. W3C maybe need to help, based on the Buddy system (such like the one there is for new Members at AC Meetings)
09:13:18 [koalie]
AnnB: A mentor.
09:13:58 [koalie]
Yosuke: W3C Team provides info to AC rep who relays inside their company
09:14:16 [koalie]
AnnB: In Boeing we do have a mentor system, but also a reverse-mentor system,
09:15:10 [koalie]
... a younger person (who has been at Boeing at least 5 yrs) mentors an older person e.g. on new technologies
09:16:15 [koalie]
[scribe challenged by extra slow and laggy network]
09:16:47 [koalie]
Bernard: I sometimes wonder how much "busy" is an excuse to participate.
09:17:55 [koalie]
masahiro: I concur engirneersare busy, some tealented engineers are in companies who are not W3C Members.
09:18:05 [koalie]
s/neersare/neers are/
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09:18:46 [koalie]
Shoko: Catching the Process is difficult. I participate in WebRTC.
09:18:58 [koalie]
... Who to ask?
09:19:45 [koalie]
AnnB: Most people feel embarrassed to ask questions. If you had a buddy that you could specifically ask question to, would that help?
09:19:53 [koalie]
Shoko: Yes!
09:22:33 [koalie]
Qiuling: You have to solve a number of questions and problems before ycan participate in a WG
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09:22:40 [koalie]
s/ycan/you can/
09:23:32 [koalie]
Yosuke: concierge in a WG that you would receive participants questions?
09:23:51 [koalie]
Coralie: How does the concierge differ from the WG staff contact?
09:24:11 [AnnB]
Quiling: a 'buddy' helps with process questions .. but not with technical understanding
09:24:45 [koalie]
Bernard: How I understand it is that this person h
09:27:14 [koalie]
s/h/ is using the same language as the person they're mentoring/
09:27:55 [koalie]
Lei: One suggestion is a channel for "freshmen"
09:28:17 [koalie]
[several in the room like the suggestion]
09:29:34 [koalie]
Hiroto: some words have several meaning; it takes time to use translation systems. So someone to help with language.
09:30:31 [koalie]
Sam: When someone speaks fast, we want to remind them to slow down before they start their presentation.
09:31:05 [koalie]
Qiuling: We can have a link to identify who can help; e-mail address, phone number, what topic they specialize in and would answer questions.
09:31:14 [koalie]
AnnB: A directory.
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... not necessarily the staff
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... but anybody willing to answer questions on a particular topic
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09:32:12 [koalie]
AdrianBateman: It's been hard to sit here for an hour, as an english-speaker, and remain quiet
09:32:32 [koalie]
... Interesting to hear contrasts and similarities
09:33:15 [koalie]
... Interesting point on people representing their employer's position as default; I'm used more to the opposite
09:33:36 [koalie]
... It would be interesting to find buddies withing the companies
09:33:45 [koalie]
... especially across different cultures
09:34:10 [koalie]
... it's my first time in China, great experience, I'd welcome the opportunityt o have a buddy in a Chinese copany
09:34:22 [koalie]
s/tyt o/ty to/
09:34:23 [yosuke]
09:34:27 [koalie]
09:34:35 [koalie]
... match-make is my suggestion.
09:35:50 [koalie]
Adrian: Also, jargon used in some groups makes it difficult for me to contribute
09:36:05 [koalie]
... that's different from a language problem
09:36:34 [koalie]
EliotGraff: Ditto what Adrien said
09:37:09 [koalie]
... themes I heard: reaching out, showing reasons and opportunities for people to join
09:37:19 [koalie]
... Some don't feel they don't have the time in their work day
09:37:43 [koalie]
... also, inabiity for people to get in an established group
09:37:53 [koalie]
... and negotiate the process, systems and technology as well.
09:38:06 [koalie]
... so a freshmen service, mentoring, are great ideas.
09:39:10 [koalie]
... lowering those barriers, including the one of thinking this group's participants are geniuses, help.
09:39:19 [koalie]
09:39:49 [koalie]
Bernard: Everyone here around the table has spoken. It shows it can be done.
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RRSagent, make minutes
09:40:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate koalie
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s/<koalie> ->/<koaliie> ->/G
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RRSagent, make minutes
09:42:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate koalie
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