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08:34:35 <adrianba> Adrian Bateman, Microsoft
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08:35:06 <Rayberg> Lei Zhixing, From Baidu.
08:36:06 <Qiuling> Qiuling Pan, from Huawei
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08:36:29 <Yuer> Min Yue, from Baidu
08:36:40 <kennyluck> Kang-Hao (Kenny) Lu, from Opera/Oupeng.
08:36:50 <AnnBassetti> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Main_Page
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08:37:35 <yosuke> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Encouraging-Participation
08:37:47 <yosuke> Yosuke Funahashi, Tomo-Digi
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08:37:56 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
08:37:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-participate-minutes.html koalie
08:38:18 <koalie> RRSAgent, make logs public
08:38:44 <koalie> meeting: Breakout: Better Participation in W3C
08:38:51 <koalie> chair: AnnBassetti
08:39:19 <koalie> -> http://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC a beginner's introduction to IRC for W3C Meetings
08:39:22 <hiroto> hiroto has joined #participate
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08:40:28 <AnnBassetti> project suggested by Dom: http://www.w3.org/wiki/Headlights2014/OnBoarding
08:40:41 <koalie> -> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Headlights2014/OnBoarding Headlights2014/OnBoarding
08:41:07 <BaopingCheng> Baoping Cheng, from China Mobile.
08:41:25 <koalie> scribenick: koalie
08:41:36 <AnnBassetti> Ann:  now what?
08:41:40 <koalie> AnnB: What topics do you want to cover?
08:41:54 <koalie> KennyLu: I have several ones in the category of languages
08:42:09 <koalie> ... including people speak too fast, use jargon, etc.
08:42:16 <adrianba> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Languages
08:42:35 <koalie> KennyLu: We realized chinese people don't have much experience with mailing list
08:42:49 <koalie> ... this might apply as well with Japaense people
08:43:01 <koalie> s/ense/nese/
08:43:38 <koalie> AnnB: May I ask why? isn't mail used?
08:44:05 <koalie> KennyLu: my experience is that people don't use them
08:44:26 <koalie> ... but they do use chat rooms
08:44:26 <Qiuling> maillist is used a lot in my company
08:44:40 <koalie> QiulingPan: We have MLs in my company
08:45:18 <koalie> KennyLu: cultural differences may be a key point here.
08:45:53 <koalie> Qiuling: We use MLs a lot inside the company
08:46:50 <koalie> @@: In Huawei we use instant chat. And we hardly ever use English.
08:47:19 <koalie> s/@@/LeiZhixing/
08:47:37 <Rayberg> s/Huawei/Baidu/
08:47:38 <koalie> BernardGidon: Introduce the purpose of a mailing list
08:47:45 <hiroto> hiroto has joined #participate
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08:48:16 <koalie> ... Sometimes American people introduce information in a very short way, and we need to explain afterwards
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08:48:35 <hiroto_> Hiroto Yahagi, from W3C
08:49:30 <koalie> Bernard: I am here to understand in which way you manage communications with people using different languages
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08:50:17 <koalie> KennyLu: We can have CGs for each language
08:50:51 <koalie> ... The japanese Interest Group has the most chance of success because it have participants from Google and @@@, but it needs more discussion on it.
08:51:05 <koalie> ... Google has a chrome team in Japan
08:51:57 <koalie> AnnB: If I understand, in the case of a large group of people who use a language, why not have a chat room or CG that would be in that language
08:53:49 <koalie> YosukeFunahashi: [speaking for the IG he's in] In japanese culture people hesitate to state their opinion
08:53:58 <koalie> ... W3C Can encourage that it's OK to say an opinion
08:55:17 <kennyluck> Japanese Interest Group mailing list archive -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-ig-jp/
08:56:21 <koalie> Yosuke: At the time of the automotive F2F meeting, here's what I did
08:57:12 <koalie> ... I told them japanese people tend to represent their company
08:57:23 <koalie> s/I told them j/J/
08:57:32 <sam_sugimoto_w3c> They are usually scared of speaking in English. They have their opinion. We can ask each person to get his/her opinion.
08:57:42 <koalie> ... so I told them that for their personal opinion they don't need to state this is their personal opinion, but,
08:58:03 <koalie> ... when they represent their company's opinion, then, they should state so.
08:58:14 <sam_sugimoto_w3c> They don't want to stop speakers and ask him/her to speak more slowly.
08:59:22 <koalie> @@@: I've been in my company a couple month and I'm not an engineer
08:59:34 <kennyluck> s/Google and @@@/Google and Apple already/
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08:59:45 <koalie> AnnB: I'm not an engineer either; happy to talk offline.
09:00:03 <koalie> ... Connecting and liaisons between W3C and our company is a good topic
09:00:32 <koalie> @@@: in my company, engineers are very busy. They have interest but not time to devote in the org.
09:00:39 <koalie> Qiuling: Yes, indeed.
09:00:56 <koalie> ... W3C activities sometimes isn't close to them
09:01:14 <koalie> ... to join the w3c work actively for the company, some need to have clear benefits
09:01:54 <koalie> ... find main points for them to join is a requirement in this cas
09:01:56 <koalie> s/cas/case/
09:02:37 <koalie> AnnB: How do we encourage people whose work isn't directly web-based?
09:02:55 <koalie> Qiuling: you can organize discussions between these people
09:03:11 <koalie> Sam: are mailing lists OK for that?
09:03:27 <koalie> Qiuling: Maybe. But not if there's too much e-mail.
09:03:42 <koalie> AnnB: it's a skill to know which ones you can ignore, and which you have to pay attention to.
09:06:27 <koalie> Kenny: re: clear benefits, in some cases you don't need them. e.g. just naming an API name is enough for encouraging joining
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09:07:35 <koalie> ... one goal is to have silent people speak more, but another is to get more people to participate in some WGs (unlike CSS which is a well-represented WG)
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09:07:48 <koalie> s/WGs/Mailing Lists/
09:07:56 <koalie> s/CSS/www-style/
09:08:13 <koalie> s/represented WG/subscribed list/
09:08:15 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
09:08:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-participate-minutes.html koalie
09:09:00 <koalie> @@@@-ChinaUnicom: I agree with several of Kenny's points on languages
09:09:40 <koalie> ... We can try to set approach of W3C
09:09:50 <Qiuling> s/ChinaUnicom/ChinaMobile
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09:10:31 <koalie> ... There is now a Host in Beijing; this group can give directions concerning W3C
09:10:52 <kennyluck> s/one goal is to have silent people speak more/one goal is to have more people (although not many) who can speak up for a local area (like Funahashi-san for the Japanese)/
09:11:22 <koalie> s/@@@@/Baoping-Cheng/
09:12:00 <koalie> AnnB: so setting up language-based lists would help?
09:12:08 <koalie> BaopingCheng: Yes.
09:13:13 <koalie> Yosuke: Engineers are always busy. W3C maybe need to help, based on the Buddy system (such like the one there is for new Members at AC Meetings)
09:13:18 <koalie> AnnB: A mentor.
09:13:58 <koalie> Yosuke:  W3C Team provides info to AC rep who relays inside their company
09:14:16 <koalie> AnnB: In Boeing we do have a mentor system, but also a reverse-mentor system,
09:15:10 <koalie> ... a younger person (who has been at Boeing at least 5 yrs) mentors an older person e.g. on new technologies
09:16:15 <koalie> [scribe challenged by extra slow and laggy network]
09:16:47 <koalie> Bernard: I sometimes wonder how much "busy" is an excuse to participate.
09:17:55 <koalie> masahiro: I concur engirneersare busy, some tealented engineers are in companies who are not W3C Members.
09:18:05 <koalie> s/neersare/neers are/
09:18:15 <koalie> s/tealen/talen/
09:18:46 <koalie> Shoko: Catching the Process is difficult. I participate in WebRTC.
09:18:58 <koalie> ... Who to ask?
09:19:45 <koalie> AnnB: Most people feel embarrassed to ask questions. If you had a buddy that you could specifically ask question to, would that help?
09:19:53 <koalie> Shoko: Yes!
09:22:33 <koalie> Qiuling: You have to solve a number of questions and problems before ycan participate in a WG
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09:22:40 <koalie> s/ycan/you can/
09:23:32 <koalie> Yosuke: concierge in a WG that you would receive participants questions?
09:23:51 <koalie> Coralie: How does the concierge differ from the WG staff contact?
09:24:11 <AnnB> Quiling:  a 'buddy' helps with process questions .. but not with technical understanding
09:24:45 <koalie> Bernard: How I understand it is that this person h
09:27:14 <koalie> s/h/ is using the same language as the person they're mentoring/
09:27:55 <koalie> Lei: One suggestion is a channel for "freshmen"
09:28:17 <koalie> [several in the room like the suggestion]
09:29:34 <koalie> Hiroto: some words have several meaning; it takes time to use translation systems. So someone to help with language.
09:30:31 <koalie> Sam: When someone speaks fast, we want to remind them to slow down before they start their presentation.
09:31:05 <koalie> Qiuling: We can have a link to identify who can help; e-mail address, phone number, what topic they specialize in and would answer questions.
09:31:14 <koalie> AnnB: A directory.
09:31:24 <koalie> ... not necessarily the staff
09:31:34 <koalie> ... but anybody willing to answer questions on a particular topic
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09:32:12 <koalie> AdrianBateman: It's been hard to sit here for an hour, as an english-speaker, and remain quiet
09:32:32 <koalie> ... Interesting to hear contrasts and similarities
09:33:15 <koalie> ... Interesting point on people representing their employer's position as default; I'm used more to the opposite
09:33:36 <koalie> ... It would be interesting to find buddies withing the companies
09:33:45 <koalie> ... especially across different cultures
09:34:10 <koalie> ... it's my first time in China, great experience, I'd welcome the opportunityt o have a buddy in a Chinese copany
09:34:22 <koalie> s/tyt o/ty to/
09:34:23 <yosuke> s/withing/within
09:34:27 <koalie> s/cop/comp/
09:34:35 <koalie> ... match-make is my suggestion.
09:35:50 <koalie> Adrian: Also, jargon used in some groups makes it difficult for me to contribute
09:36:05 <koalie> ... that's different from a language problem
09:36:34 <koalie> EliotGraff: Ditto what Adrien said
09:37:09 <koalie> ... themes I heard: reaching out, showing reasons and opportunities for people to join
09:37:19 <koalie> ... Some don't feel they don't have the time in their work day
09:37:43 <koalie> ... also, inabiity for people to get in an established group
09:37:53 <koalie> ... and negotiate the process, systems and technology as well.
09:38:06 <koalie> ... so a freshmen service, mentoring, are great ideas.
09:39:10 <koalie> ... lowering those barriers, including the one of thinking this group's participants are geniuses, help.
09:39:19 <koalie> s/help/helps/
09:39:49 <koalie> Bernard: Everyone here around the table has spoken. It shows it can be done.
09:40:03 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
09:40:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-participate-minutes.html koalie
09:41:54 <koalie> s/<koalie> ->/<koaliie> ->/G
09:42:28 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
09:42:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-participate-minutes.html koalie
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