IRC log of headlights on 2013-11-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

06:08:32 [RRSAgent]
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06:08:32 [RRSAgent]
logging to
06:08:39 [jeff]
present+ Jeff Jaffe
06:08:43 [dopi]
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06:09:00 [jeff]
present+ Brett Smith, W3C Systems Team
06:09:13 [brett]
scribe: Brett
06:09:16 [brett]
scribenick: brett
06:09:31 [brett]
present+ Michael, LG
06:09:55 [brett]
present+ @@Daoping, Huawei
06:10:54 [brett]
Jeff: Possible meeting objectives: explain Headlights and changes for 2014. Hearing your ideas for Headlights. Presenting a couple of my ideas.
06:11:34 [brett]
... Presented this at AC meeting, but can provide more detail here.
06:11:41 [HJLEE]
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06:12:00 [brett]
present+ Jason, @@B
06:12:13 [brett]
06:12:21 [Michael_Kang]
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06:12:55 [brett]
... Always incremental changes in W3C projects, but big changes are more interesting, especially when we don't see them coming.
06:13:09 [brett]
... It's important to try to foresee those issues as much as possible.
06:13:35 [brett]
present+ @@C, Huawei
06:13:48 [brett]
... First headlights was two years ago. Last year's was more intensive.
06:14:30 [brett]
... Some focused on the Web. We've worked on Web Payments before, but never looked at from a standards framework perspective.
06:14:48 [brett]
... Result is a workshop for spring 2014.
06:15:31 [brett]
... HTML5 performance. This has been a source of criticism in the past. Looking at end-to-end issues. Some stem from JavaScript, or best practices.
06:15:51 [brett]
... Closing the Gap, you heard about from Dom.
06:16:44 [Boyang]
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06:16:52 [brett]
present+ Boyang
06:17:13 [brett]
... Some headlights look at W3C as an organization. Look at how groups upgrade from CGs to WGs.
06:17:30 [brett]
... Talked about anniversaries: 25th of Web, 20th of W3C. Probably a big event around TPAC next year.
06:17:56 [Yudong]
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06:17:57 [brett]
... Talked about W3C brand: Web site, a dashboard for AC representatives.
06:18:32 [brett]
... I wrote a blog post with a summary of each project.
06:18:39 [brett]
... Running Headlights again in 2014.
06:18:51 [brett]
... We need ideas about what's going to cause change in the future.
06:19:09 [brett]
... We're looking to reallocate our resources.
06:19:27 [brett]
... In 2013, Headlights were an internal process. Ideas were nominated by staff, then some Members participated afterward.
06:19:40 [brett]
... Now we're opening it up to the community earlier. We're starting the search for topics now.
06:20:29 [brett]
... First we'll gather proposals, then whittle down the list, then decide on action. At June AC meeting, we'll discuss the results, then W3M will assign resources.
06:21:33 [brett]
... Mailed the AC two weeks ago outlining all this and asking for their ideas.
06:22:14 [brett]
... We're inviting suggestions on a wiki.
06:22:25 [brett]
... We can add to the wiki during this breakout.
06:22:41 [brett]
... Would like to hear your ideas. Otherwise, I'll share a few of mine.
06:22:52 [brett]
... Eager to jumpstart the process.
06:23:46 [brett]
Michael: Wondering about relationship between Headlights and HTML5 stabilization.
06:24:11 [brett]
... Sounds like ideas may lead to new features in hypothetical HTML6 or 7.
06:24:20 [Michael_Kang_]
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06:24:30 [brett]
... Wondering what kind of cadence we should expect for stabilization of features.
06:24:51 [brett]
Jeff: HTML5 is on schedule to reach Recommendation in about a year. Features are already frozen.
06:25:10 [brett]
... Probably no new ideas going into HTML5. Maybe something sufficiently small and important.
06:25:38 [brett]
... HTML WG is working on a number of extension specifications. Many of them are on track to be part of HTML5.1.
06:25:48 [brett]
... Anything coming from Headlights would also likely go there.
06:26:03 [brett]
Michael: When is HTML5.1 expected to be finalized?
06:26:11 [brett]
Jeff: Goal is 2016. That is much faster than previous releases.
06:26:38 [brett]
... We'd like to be that fast. HTML4 was 1999. We'll do better, but I'm not sure how much better.
06:27:00 [Yudong]
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06:27:06 [brett]
Michael: Headlights topics should be followed up with implementation from browser vendors.
06:27:21 [brett]
... Can there be such a commitment?
06:27:38 [brett]
Jeff: Proposal can start anywhere. You ultimately need browser implementation to succeed.
06:28:21 [brett]
... When we started Web & TV IG, browsers were not very interested. We got them involved by building this traction, with connections within and without W3C. All that was necessary for success.
06:28:42 [brett]
... We may start work on an idea without browser vendor buy-in at first if we think it's sufficiently important.
06:28:53 [brett]
Michael: Would Headlights lead to new BGs or IGs?
06:28:59 [brett]
s/IGs/IGs in general/
06:29:09 [brett]
Jeff: Usually yes, but sometimes it takes a while.
06:29:20 [brett]
... First Headlights started too late, so many projects weren't completed.
06:29:42 [brett]
... We've only had one successful year. Goal is to generally lead to that formation.
06:29:50 [brett]
... e.g., Social last year. We're just now starting a Social WG.
06:30:41 [brett]
Michael: Many SDOs deal with HTML5 to accommodate needs for their business. e.g., HDTV in Europe building their own extensions.
06:30:55 [brett]
... From their point of view, it's their standard. From W3C's, it's a bit of fragmentation.
06:31:20 [brett]
... Is it possible to merge this work into core spec in the end? Or is divergence natural?
06:31:29 [brett]
Jeff: What did Web & TV IG say?
06:31:47 [brett]
... I think that's the right place to ask.
06:31:58 [brett]
... Guiseppe would know better than me.
06:32:19 [brett]
... We have a liaison. On a couple of items, when they've told us their intentions, we've told them our preference that they bring that work to W3C.
06:32:33 [brett]
... It's an issue, but we are trying to move spec work into W3C.
06:33:13 [Yudong]
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06:33:22 [brett]
Daoping: Developers use JavaScript to develop 3D graphics on the Web, but it's not very efficient.
06:33:55 [brett]
... Wondering about status of Declarative 3D Group.
06:34:51 [brett]
06:35:02 [brett]
Jeff: CGs are generally not Recommendation track yet, just a group studying the topic.
06:35:40 [brett]
... We could create a proposal here.
06:37:45 [brett]
Daoping: Would like to see W3C put features in HTML spec to make it easier to create 3D content, akin to CSS animation.
06:38:03 [brett]
s/Daoping/Dong Ping/g
06:38:29 [brett]
[Jeff walks through the process of adding this idea to the Headlights wiki.]
06:43:09 [brett]
scribenick: jeff
06:43:37 [Michael_Kang]
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06:43:59 [jeff]
Dong Ping: Bodywear device; wearable device
06:44:08 [dom]
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06:44:09 [jeff]
... Can the web do somthing - small screen device
06:44:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate dom
06:44:28 [jeff]
Jeff: Could be part of Web of things
06:45:28 [brett]
-> 3D support in HTML Headlights proposal
06:45:42 [brett]
scribenick: brett
06:45:53 [brett]
Jeff: I generally prefer to get input from the community, but sometimes I have my own ideas.
06:46:07 [brett]
... When I do, I write it down, and wait to see if someone else adds it.
06:46:23 [brett]
... Later on in the process, I'll add any that haven't been covered already.
06:46:28 [jeff]
>>> Digital marketing
06:46:29 [jeff]
>>> Web of Things
06:46:29 [jeff]
>> Next steps on DNT
06:46:29 [jeff]
> Securing the Web
06:46:29 [jeff]
Impact of HTTP2 on the Web architecture
06:46:30 [brett]
s/any/any of my own/
06:46:38 [brett]
... Here's what I'm sitting on right now.
06:47:23 [brett]
... DNT is just scratching the surface of that issue - what's next in the larger issue?
06:47:57 [brett]
... I'd prefer to hear from subject matter experts on these issues.
06:49:23 [brett]
[We revisit the HTML 3D proposal.]
06:49:33 [brett]
... Feel free to extend, modify, or even delete this proposal.
06:49:59 [brett]
... It's now linked from the main Headlights wiki.
06:50:04 [brett]
... Any other proposals?
06:50:32 [brett]
... Thank you all.
06:50:38 [jeff]
rrsagent, make minutes
06:50:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate jeff
06:50:39 [brett]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
06:50:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate brett
06:51:10 [brett]
RRSAgent, bye
06:51:15 [brett]
RRSAgent, make logs public
06:51:20 [brett]
RRSAgent, bye
06:51:20 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items