06:04:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #Cjoin
06:04:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-Cjoin-irc
06:04:30 <xiaoqian> RRSAgent, make minutes
06:04:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-Cjoin-minutes.html xiaoqian
06:05:47 <xiaoqian> Scriptnick Ruinan
06:06:05 <xiaoqian> Script + Ruinan
06:07:57 <angel> angel has joined #cjoin
06:08:08 <angel> scribe: Ruinan
06:08:15 <angel> chair: Qiuling
06:08:22 <Ruinan> Qiuling: Under the help of Angle, we get some servy about Chinese participation
06:09:09 <Ruinan> ...This survey based on the feedback from 10 companies
06:09:58 <Rayberg> Rayberg has joined #cjoin
06:10:15 <Ruinan> ...Q1: most interested work group of chinese companies: HTML/CSS and WEBRTC
06:10:26 <xiaoqian> s/servy/survey/
06:10:31 <GangLiang> very thankful to two non-chinese friends join the disscussion
06:11:03 <Chunming> Chunming has joined #cjoin
06:11:05 <Ruinan> ... some discussion is difficult for Chinese to catch
06:11:27 <Ruinan> ... Q2: is this the first time you join W3C meeting
06:11:57 <Ruinan> ... Q4: what do you think about the cureent status of Chinese companies attending the W3C?
06:12:14 <Ruinan> ... most of the compnies think that we just follow
06:13:10 <Ruinan> ... Q5: deficiency when chinese companies attend W3C activities? some of them only follow , do not have clear target
06:13:59 <Ruinan> ... telecom thinks we need to transfer, but haven't have clear direction.
06:14:29 <kennyluck> kennyluck has joined #cjoin
06:14:58 <kennyluck> … we must include ourselves
06:15:00 <Ruinan> ... language is a big problem for Chinese. People speek very quickly in W3C. Before i'm in OMA, it's easier to catch what they said.
06:16:21 <Ruinan> @@ in AB, suggest peoples to speak slowly. the only thing i disagree with you, simple English is easy, but jok or others difficult for Asian
06:16:50 <xiaoqian> kenny, would you be so kind to do script for us?
06:17:10 <Ruinan> Qiuling: Q6's answer is all: yes
06:18:05 <GangLiang> I can send the documents to all the participant by email
06:18:14 <Ruinan> ... Q7: How to encourage more Chinese to attend W3C activity?
06:19:11 <Ruinan> @@: in the group, you would volunteer to host a meeting in China
06:19:24 <hbwhzk> hbwhzk has joined #Cjoin
06:19:56 <kennyluck> … we encourage people to speak in F2F meetings.
06:21:04 <Ruinan> @@: can i ask a question? will you always stay at IRC or jump to the micphone?
06:21:06 <kennyluck> Qiuling: The culture in Chinese is different from Western
06:21:17 <kennyluck> q+
06:21:24 <Ruinan> Qiuling: the different culture and depend on different person
06:21:34 <angel> zakim, who is on the queue?
06:21:43 <angel> zakim,q?
06:21:43 <Ruinan> ... for now, more and more person want to invoke
06:22:13 <xiaoqian> q?
06:22:30 <yisi> yisi has joined #cjoin
06:22:38 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #cjoin
06:22:44 <kennyluck> @@: I made XML 1.0 to 1.1. One everybody becomes a team, people start talking freely.
06:22:47 <angel> zakim, who is on the queue?
06:22:47 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
06:22:57 <kennyluck> Zakim, q+
06:22:57 <Zakim> I see kennyluck on the speaker queue
06:23:18 <angel> q+
06:23:43 <Ruinan> Ann has suggest it in AB meeting. Is it easy to follow in IRC?
06:24:07 <Ruinan> Qiuling: if you want to listen, listen and look at the IRC is difficult.
06:24:18 <Chu> Chu has joined #cjoin
06:24:45 <Ruinan> @@: for me, jumping to the microphone is a good method
06:25:02 <angel> s/@@/Michael C
06:25:19 <xiaoqian> ack angel
06:25:23 <Ruinan> Ann: somtimes i also can't understand what he want?
06:25:54 <Kepeng_Li> q
06:26:10 <Ruinan> Angle: W3C cool technologies, it will good for us to prepare before the meeting.
06:26:19 <Chunming> q+
06:26:20 <xiaoqian> q+ Kepeng_Li
06:26:29 <Ruinan> Ann: I will also ask some simple question.
06:26:33 <xiaoqian> q?
06:26:37 <GangLiang> I will send the slide to all of you by email
06:26:44 <Ruinan> ... started from stupid question
06:27:00 <GangLiang> please check the your email address if i miss something
06:27:02 <GangLiang> lingchen@microsoft.com; wu.yan2@zte.com.cn; likepeng@huawei.com; dburnett@voxeo.com; leizhixing@baidu.com; zgzhang.cas@gmail.com; minyue@baidu.com; xiaoqian@w3.org; chengbaoping@chinamobile.com
06:27:17 <kennyluck> kanghaol@oupeng.com
06:28:00 <Ruinan> Ann: years ago i speek in the microphone, the people sit beside me don't dare to do that.
06:28:42 <Ruinan> ... many people are shine to express, such as Japaness, it's calture problem
06:29:09 <angel> ack Kenny
06:29:37 <Qiuling> q?
06:30:08 <kenny> s/calture/culture
06:30:12 <burn> burn has joined #cjoin
06:30:16 <ling_chen> ling_chen has joined #cjoin
06:30:21 <burn> q?
06:30:28 <angel> ack Chunming
06:30:30 <burn> q+
06:30:34 <kennyluck> Chunming: I am, Hu Chunming from Beihang
06:30:34 <xiaoqian> script: kennyluck
06:30:42 <kennyluck> … I'd like to share something.
06:30:53 <rayberg_> rayberg_ has joined #cjoin
06:31:02 <kennyluck> … from my experience with the Beihang host, IRC is very useful for me
06:31:05 <Ruinan> Thank you Kenny for your script
06:31:15 <xiaoqian>  scribe: kennyluck
06:31:17 <kennyluck> … Raising hands is difficult.
06:31:20 <yuer> yuer has joined #cjoin
06:31:27 <xiaoqian> scribe: kennyluck
06:31:40 <kennyluck> … developers are not good at expressing thoughts in English .
06:31:57 <xiaoqian> q?
06:31:58 <kennyluck> … we do have some kind of authorized translation, but it's not enough.
06:32:08 <angel> scribe: kenny
06:32:12 <GangLiang> I have sent the slide to lingchen@microsoft.com; wu.yan2@zte.com.cn; Likepeng; dburnett@voxeo.com; leizhixing@baidu.com; zgzhang.cas@gmail.com; minyue@baidu.com; xiaoqian@w3.org; chengbaoping@chinamobile.com; kanghaol@oupeng.com
06:32:19 <rayberg_> rayberg_ has joined #cjoin
06:32:20 <GangLiang> please check your email
06:32:29 <angel> s/scribe:kenny/scribe: kennyluck
06:32:32 <GangLiang> if i miss someone, please let me know
06:32:35 <kennyluck> … question: can we make more tools? to encourage more people to @@
06:32:55 <kennyluck> … crowdsourcing is also useful.
06:33:11 <kennyluck> … The key issue is to inspire Chinese companies.
06:33:13 <angel> s/@@/translate W3C documents
06:33:24 <mchampion> mchampion has joined #cjoin
06:33:46 <kennyluck> … we have a Chinese version of w3.org, not in the w3.org domain, but other.
06:33:52 <AnnBassetti> AnnBassetti has joined #cjoin
06:33:57 <kennyluck> … we should support information delivery in Chinese.
06:33:58 <xiaoqian> http://www.chinaw3c.org/
06:34:18 <kennyluck> … we make Weibo mircroblogging (Weibo is Chiense twitter)
06:34:41 <kennyluck> … Also, someone suggested that we should have more events in China to catch people's eye.
06:34:42 <ling_chen> q?
06:34:55 <kennyluck> … TPAC is important to link people together.
06:34:57 <kun> s/Chiense/Chinese
06:35:13 <kennyluck> … We do try to do member meeting once every three months.
06:35:14 <ling_chen> q+
06:35:27 <kennyluck> … it might be a problem that only Beijing folks come
06:35:41 <xiaoqian> ack Kepeng_Li
06:35:44 <kennyluck> Kepeng_Li: I'd like to share some experience too
06:35:57 <kennyluck> … offline discussion with chairs is useful.
06:36:08 <angel> ack Kepeng_Li
06:36:21 <kennyluck> … For example, on Monday, in TTWG, I didn't understand anything
06:36:32 <xiaoqian> q+
06:36:33 <Ruinan> q+
06:36:42 <chu> chu has joined #cjoin
06:36:46 <kennyluck> … but an offline dissuasion during break was good
06:37:04 <kennyluck> Qiuling: Yes, you need to understand the group's work.
06:37:27 <xiaoqian> ack burn
06:37:28 <kennyluck> @@: The XML work had a good co-chair, who was a Chinese.
06:37:28 <Chunming> Q?
06:37:40 <xiaoqian> s/@@/burn/
06:37:50 <kennyluck> … we translate whenever it is necessary
06:37:54 <kennyluck> s/we/he/
06:38:24 <kennyluck> … Another. Back in 2007, we had to convince companies in China that W3C is the place to make standards
06:38:48 <kennyluck> … they had government-supported organization.
06:38:51 <AnnBassetti> It sounds to me as if there are 2 questions: 1) How to attract more Chinese companies to be members; and 2) How to make it easier for Chinese participants (and everyone else!) to participate in W3C work
06:39:15 <kennyluck> … those organizations made work done by W3C into Chinese standards
06:39:24 <angel> +1 to Ann
06:39:30 <kennyluck> … that make companies think "W3C is the place".
06:39:40 <Ruinan> this break will major focus on 2) How to make it easier for Chinese participants (and everyone else!) to participate in W3C work
06:39:51 <kennyluck> (miss a lot :( )
06:39:52 <AnnBassetti> q?
06:40:37 <kennyluck> (burn talks about the history of the XML, the competing standard by the Chinese government and such)
06:40:48 <angel> q+ Chunming
06:41:06 <angel> ack Chunming
06:41:23 <kennyluck> Chunming: Standards outside ISO isn't familiar to Chinese companies
06:42:04 <kennyluck> … My suggestion: If companies say "your standards don't suit me", we invite them here.
06:42:11 <AnnBassetti> q+
06:42:32 <kennyluck> … Another, there are government agencies who are watching W3C. We should enroll them.
06:42:51 <xiaoqian> ack ling_chen
06:43:32 <Qiuling> i see rtc queue helps people to join the discussion
06:43:45 <kennyluck> ling_chen: That's say Huawei, it's active in ITU and such.
06:43:50 <kennyluck> … why is China so active there?
06:44:13 <kennyluck> … That's because there's business… 3GPP and such
06:44:37 <kennyluck> … for the Web, Chinese folks are catching. Not so much business interest.
06:45:16 <kennyluck> … One more suggestion? Let's ask Baidu and other big tech companies.
06:45:28 <angel> ack xiaoqian
06:45:39 <Baoping_Cheng> Baoping_Cheng has joined #cjoin
06:46:01 <kennyluck> xiaoqian: In TTWF, I've been translating.
06:46:13 <kennyluck> … We don't know IRC! We need to send notice mails.
06:46:24 <angel> +1 to intro info for new attendees
06:46:35 <kennyluck> … We need to write down things in wiki. We need to know the q .
06:46:48 <AnnBassetti> instructions for how to get started with IRC: http://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC
06:47:01 <kennyluck> … For TTWF, some folks don't even know they should bring laptop.
06:47:01 <AnnBassetti> I am eager for feedback on those instructions
06:47:04 <kennyluck> q+
06:47:36 <kennyluck> … I asked why. They said they didn't get a noice.
06:47:58 <kennyluck> … I said it's there on the page. They said they didn't read into that because it's in Englih.
06:48:02 <angel> ack ruinan
06:48:28 <kennyluck> Ruinan: I propose we send a checklist to Chinese participants.
06:48:49 <kennyluck> angel: Agreed. Good idea.
06:49:03 <xiaoqian> q?
06:49:13 <Chunming> +1 to checklist, and toolbox at starting point.
06:49:27 <GangLiang> we do have 10 mins left
06:49:33 <kennyluck> Ruinan: Even if I am in W3C meetings for many times. I am still not famiar with IRC.
06:49:48 <kennyluck> … and again, Chinese companies don't clear goal.
06:50:05 <Qiuling> i think people who join w3c meeting can read english well. but maybe listen/speak is not so easy
06:50:09 <xiaoqian> ack AnnBassetti
06:50:23 <wwu> wwu has joined #cjoin
06:50:49 <kennyluck> (AnnBassetti explains the IRC document)
06:51:55 <kennyluck> (Angel explains that we are no longer office…)
06:52:37 <kun> s/Englih/English
06:53:05 <xiaoqian> ack kennyluck
06:53:11 <kennyluck> AnnBassetti: ISO standards… Very few of W3C standards are elevated to ISO standards.
06:53:21 <Qiuling> q?
06:53:27 <Kepeng_Li> what is the difference between office and host? Angel?
06:53:44 <xiaoqian> kennyluck: Regarding IRC, for Chinese IG, we use mixed tools, f.ex. QQ to scribe
06:53:45 <AnnBassetti>  KennyLuck:  for Chinese IG, we use a variety of tools
06:53:54 <Qiuling> let's come to some conclusion?
06:54:15 <xiaoqian> ... I think we should find a suitable to scribing
06:54:29 <xiaoqian> ... People in Chinese Companies don't get used to scribing
06:54:32 <AnnBassetti> What is QQ?
06:54:44 <Qiuling> QQ is tencent's MSN
06:54:44 <angel> to Ann, an instant messager
06:54:55 <xiaoqian> ...IRC isn't widely used by Devs
06:55:04 <Kepeng_Li> instant messaging develped by tencent
06:55:25 <xiaoqian> ... I don't think forcing people to use IRC is a good idea
06:55:40 <yisi> QQ  group is  every good.
06:55:49 <xiaoqian> Baidu: My first time to attend w3c meeting
06:56:05 <angel> s/Baidu/China Mobile
06:56:22 <kennyluck> … I agree that Chinese companies don't have clear goals.
06:56:49 <kennyluck> … They join very recently, and China Mobile is even not a member...
06:56:53 <xiaoqian> s/.../AC from Baidu/
06:57:07 <AnnBassetti> but, we encourage China Mobile to join!
06:57:08 <kennyluck> … HTML5 is important
06:57:27 <xiaoqian> s/...I agree/AC from Baidu: I agree/
06:57:49 <xiaoqian> s/AC from Baidu/.../
06:57:59 <Chunming> IRC is smoothly integrated to w3c teleconf system, the Zakim, the queue control, and the reagent. So, if possible, we would like to encourage IGs, CGs, and Chinese members to learn and use it
06:58:04 <kennyluck> … because Web technologies is important… I believe Chinese companies will make greater contributions.
06:58:22 <kennyluck> Lexing: In Baidu, we never use English!
06:58:33 <kennyluck> … I am a frontend engineer.
06:58:38 <kennyluck> q+
06:59:07 <xiaoqian> RRSAgent make minutes
06:59:10 <xiaoqian> RRSAgent, make minutes
06:59:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-Cjoin-minutes.html xiaoqian
06:59:13 <kennyluck> … We don't know what our company can do.
06:59:34 <kennyluck> … I didn't know IRC. I didn't know all the work.
06:59:45 <kennyluck> … they can email everyday.
07:00:07 <kennyluck> … 他們不知道收到這些郵件可以幹什麼
07:00:22 <kennyluck> … no KPI for us!
07:00:25 <AnnBassetti> it is SO important to have your companies in the W3C
07:00:40 <AnnBassetti> (I have the same problems with email!0
07:00:49 <angel> rrsagent, draft minutes
07:00:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/13-Cjoin-minutes.html angel
07:01:25 <xiaoqian> Chinese IG: public-html-ig-zh@w3.org
07:02:25 <angel> rrsagent, make the log public available
07:02:25 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make the log public available', angel.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
07:02:44 <burn> rrsagent, make log public
07:03:41 <angel> rrsagent, please make record pulic-visible
07:03:41 <burn> angel, I still can't access it either for some reason, but the "make log public" command is the correct one
07:03:52 <angel> to Burn, yes
07:04:11 <angel> Hi Burn, it's done
07:04:25 <burn> maybe it just took a while.  sometimes it is slo
07:04:27 <burn> slow
07:04:45 <angel> need to get the minutes cleaned
07:06:54 <angel> zakim, who is here?
07:06:54 <Zakim> sorry, angel, I don't know what conference this is
07:06:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see wwu, Baoping_Cheng, Chunming, AnnBassetti, yuer, ling_chen, Zakim, yisi, kun, kennyluck, angel, RRSAgent, xiaoqian, GangLiang, zqzhang_, Qiuling, Ruinan
07:07:19 <angel> zakim, mute me
07:07:19 <Zakim> sorry, angel, I don't know what conference this is
07:14:59 <Qiuling> quit
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07:26:21 <kennyluck> s/they can email everyday./they get email everyday./
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