15:59:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:59:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/05-wai-wcag-irc
15:59:41 <Joshue> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:59:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller]
16:00:01 <Joshue108> Joshue108 has joined #wai-wcag
16:00:14 <Joshue108> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
16:00:15 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
16:00:21 <Zakim> +Kathleen_Anderson
16:00:26 <AWK> AWK has joined #wai-wcag
16:01:05 <Zakim> + +1.617.766.aaaa
16:01:39 <AWK> Zakim, Adobe is AWK
16:01:39 <Zakim> sorry, AWK, I do not recognize a party named 'Adobe'
16:01:49 <AWK> Zakim, aaaa is AWK
16:01:49 <Zakim> +AWK; got it
16:02:00 <kathleen> kathleen has joined #wai-wcag
16:02:04 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
16:02:19 <Zakim> +??P12
16:02:28 <bbailey> zakim, this is Bruce_Bailey
16:02:28 <Zakim> sorry, bbailey, I do not see a conference named 'Bruce_Bailey' in progress or scheduled at this time
16:02:45 <bbailey> zakim, i am Bruce_Bailey
16:02:46 <Zakim> ok, bbailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey
16:03:08 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:03:14 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:03:41 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
16:04:51 <marcjohlic> scribe:  marcjohlic
16:05:20 <Joshue108> agenda + Continue https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Techsreview15thOct2013/results
16:05:25 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
16:05:25 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
16:05:26 <Zakim> 2. Continue techniques review https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Techsreview15thOct2013/ [from AWK]
16:05:26 <Zakim> 3. Update on Mobile TF [from AWK]
16:05:26 <Zakim> 4. Continue https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Techsreview15thOct2013/results [from Joshue108]
16:05:36 <marcjohlic> BB:  Bruce will scribe the next meeting
16:05:39 <Peter_Thiessen> In another conference call at the moment but will be lurking in the background
16:05:43 <Joshue108> zakim, drop item 4
16:05:43 <Zakim> agendum 4, Continue https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Techsreview15thOct2013/results, dropped
16:06:56 <bbailey> New DOT Rules Make Flying Easier for Passengers with Disabilities (airline websites, airport kiosks, and seat strapping)
16:06:58 <bbailey> http://www.dot.gov/briefing-room/new-dot-rules-make-flying-easier-passengers-disabilities
16:07:41 <bbailey> Link in right-hand menu is to official docket
16:07:50 <Peter_Thiessen> right, thanks Joshue
16:08:22 <bbailey> Regulations.gov off-line at moment :-)
16:08:29 <marcjohlic> BB:  FAA is adopting WCAG 2.0 A and AA for airline websites and kiosks.
16:09:06 <Joshue108> s/FAA/DOT
16:09:32 <marcjohlic> Clarification - DOT is the agency
16:09:45 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 2
16:09:45 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Continue techniques review https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Techsreview15thOct2013/" taken up [from AWK]
16:09:48 <Joshue108> Using the aria-describedby property to provide a descriptive label for user interface controls
16:10:02 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/ARIA1:_Using_the_aria-describedby_property_to_provide_a_descriptive_label_for_user_interface_controls
16:10:25 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:10:35 <marcjohlic> TOPIC:  2. [Start here 5th Nov] Using the aria-describedby property to provide a descriptive label for user interface controls
16:11:07 <bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Techsreview15thOct2013/results#x2652
16:11:28 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
16:11:43 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:11:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/05-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:12:30 <Joshue108> +q
16:12:44 <Joshue108> ack -q
16:13:27 <Joshue108> ack me
16:13:49 <Joshue108> +q
16:13:55 <Joshue108> -q
16:14:07 <Joshue108> +q to say that there shouldn't be two IDs in the example
16:14:19 <Joshue108> -q
16:18:54 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
16:19:34 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
16:21:33 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/states_and_properties#aria-describedby
16:24:30 <marcjohlic> JoC:  James tested "Example 2: Using aria-describedby to associate instructions with form fields and it was announced twice
16:25:29 <marcjohlic> JN:  When control was focused it read "a bit of instructions" twice
16:25:43 <marcjohlic> AWK:  Vote to leave example as it is
16:26:22 <marcjohlic> RESOLUTION:  Accepted as amended.
16:26:49 <marcjohlic> TOPIC:  3. Update to Identifying required fields with the aria-required property
16:27:22 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/ARIA2:_Identifying_required_fields_with_the_aria-required_property
16:28:45 <bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Techsreview15thOct2013/results#x2663
16:30:02 <AWK> Scribe: AWK
16:30:35 <AWK> JO: Kerstin's comment is trying to avoid redundancies
16:30:37 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
16:30:50 <AWK> JN: The example itself is designed to avoid that problem
16:32:10 <AWK> AWK: need to fix for/id association
16:33:27 <AWK> AWK: Should we add the reference to the hierarchy of labeling items?
16:34:34 <AWK> "Per the WAI-ARIA specification, the aria-label text will override the text supplied within the link. As such the text supplied will be used instead of the link text by AT. Due to this it is recommended to start the text used in aria-label with the text used within the link. This will allow consistent communication between users."
16:34:47 <AWK> (stolen from: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-label_for_link_purpose)
16:38:31 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
16:39:05 <AWK> JO: looking at sailesh's survey comments.
16:39:30 <jamesn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-TECHS/H90.html
16:41:32 <AWK> AWK: Looks like ARIA2 is for SC 3.3.2 and 1.3.1 and H90 is just 3.3.2
16:42:59 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
16:43:21 <AWK> ISSUE: Should H90 reference 1.3.1 like ARIA2 does?
16:43:21 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-15 - Should h90 reference 1.3.1 like aria2 does?.  Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/15/edit>.
16:43:37 <David> rrsagent, make minutes
16:43:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/05-wai-wcag-minutes.html David
16:44:26 <MichaelC> issue-15?
16:44:26 <trackbot> issue-15 -- Should h90 reference 1.3.1 like aria2 does? -- open
16:44:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/15
16:44:38 <AWK> ISSUE-?
16:46:05 <AWK> RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended
16:46:20 <AWK> TOPIC: 5. Using the group role to identify related form controls
16:46:21 <Joshue108>  Using the group role to identify related form controls
16:47:25 <bbailey> q+
16:47:56 <AWK> ack b
16:48:13 <AWK> Kathy raises issue about role=group on td element
16:48:25 <AWK> BB; also a little concerned about this
16:48:29 <AWK> JO:
16:48:44 <AWK> JO: What's the problem?  The table has role=presentation
16:49:02 <AWK> JN: This would be a bad idea without the role=presentation
16:50:26 <AWK> JN: Suggests making example 2 a handful of divs instead of a layout table.
16:50:42 <AWK> JO: good idea, no good reason to have the table.
16:52:05 <AWK> JO: We would need to ask Sailesh to change the example for the live example to match
16:52:19 <bbailey> Question #5 from earlier survey and #3 from this weeks survey reference same technique.
16:52:22 <bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Techsreview15thOct2013/results#x2659
16:52:30 <bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Nov5_2013/results#x2663
16:52:45 <bbailey> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_the_group_role_to_identify_related_form_controls
16:54:23 <AWK> We'll edit the example to remove the table and use divs, and ask Sailesh to modify live example.
16:57:45 <bbailey> Okay, I fixed the issue I flagged with typographical quotation marks
16:58:05 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
16:58:05 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:58:08 <Ryladog> +1 to what Michael is saying about AT
16:58:41 <Joshue108> +1 to Michaels suggestion
17:01:30 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
17:01:38 <AWK> AWK: only outstanding issue is example two - we looked at all comments on current survey item.
17:03:22 <AWK> ACTION Sailesh to modify example 2 and corresponding live example and text above it for http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_grouping_roles_to_identify_related_form_controls.
17:03:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-229 - Modify example 2 and corresponding live example and text above it for http://www.w3.org/wai/gl/wiki/using_grouping_roles_to_identify_related_form_controls. [on Sailesh Panchang - due 2013-11-12].
17:03:52 <AWK> Sailesh will need to change role="group" to role="radiogroup" also.
17:04:12 <marcjohlic> scribe:  marcjohlic
17:04:15 <AWK> RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended pending ACTION-229 by Sailesh
17:04:40 <marcjohlic> TOPIC:  7. ARIA-edit: F68: Failure of Success Criterion 1.3.1 and 4.1.2
17:04:42 <Joshue108> ARIA-edit: F68: Failure of Success Criterion 1.3.1 and 4.1.2
17:04:48 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/ARIA-edit:_F68:_Failure_of_Success_Criterion_1.3.1_and_4.1.2_due_to_the_association_of_label_and_user_interface_controls_not_being_programmatically_determinable
17:07:28 <bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Techsreview15thOct2013/results#x2659
17:08:06 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
17:08:06 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
17:12:43 <jamesn> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/G167.html
17:13:01 <marcjohlic>   AWK:  Leave Example 3 as is - but should we add info on how to fix it?
17:13:37 <marcjohlic> DM:  May get too confusing if we add the fix info - better to leave it as is.
17:14:05 <marcjohlic> JO:  Suggest removing the last sentences on how to fix it - as the correct way is detailed elswhere
17:16:01 <jamesn> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#programmaticallydetermineddef
17:16:05 <jamesn> does it matter?
17:16:36 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
17:16:36 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
17:18:12 <marcjohlic> JO:  No objection to changing title to "determined"
17:22:07 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
17:22:07 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
17:23:17 <bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Techsreview15thOct2013/results#x2661
17:26:27 <marcjohlic> JO:  Discussed Sailesh's comment and removed "The name can be supplied with the title attribute, with a label element hidden with CSS, with aria-label, or with aria-labelledby." from Example 3.
17:27:46 <marcjohlic> DM:  We're using lowercase and uppercase 't' in "the" in procedures - change all to lowercase.
17:28:10 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
17:28:10 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
17:28:53 <marcjohlic> AWK;  Does "submit" button count as a label?
17:29:04 <marcjohlic> JO:  I'd say no it does not count
17:29:31 <marcjohlic> JN:  I believe it does count - depends on your term "label" - html vs generic
17:35:07 <marcjohlic> AWK:  In Example 3, do we want to get rid of "Type your search here"
17:35:12 <marcjohlic> JO:  In favor of keeping it
17:35:37 <marcjohlic> RESOLUTION:  Failure accepted as amended
17:35:56 <AWK> Note: October 15 survey is finished.
17:36:59 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda
17:36:59 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda', Joshue108
17:37:10 <MichaelC> topic: Cognitive A11Y TF
17:37:11 <MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/work-statement
17:42:28 <AWK> RESOLUTION: WCAG approved modified Cognitive a11y work statement
17:43:10 <Zakim> -Joshue
17:43:12 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
17:43:13 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
17:43:13 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
17:43:14 <Zakim> -Kathleen_Anderson
17:43:16 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
17:43:18 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
17:43:20 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
17:43:37 <AWK> NOTE: Next week November 5 survey to start, #1,2,4 need to be done
17:43:45 <AWK> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:43:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/05-wai-wcag-minutes.html AWK
17:44:01 <AWK> RRSAgent, make minutes world-visible
17:44:01 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-visible', AWK.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:44:16 <MichaelC> zakim, drop awk
17:44:16 <Zakim> AWK is being disconnected
17:44:17 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended
17:44:17 <Zakim> Attendees were Joshue, Kathleen_Anderson, +1.617.766.aaaa, AWK, Bruce_Bailey, Michael_Cooper, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Marc_Johlic, James_Nurthen, David_MacDonald
17:44:26 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
17:44:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/05-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
17:44:26 <AWK> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
17:45:32 <MichaelC> meeting: WCAG
17:45:37 <MichaelC> chair: Joshue_O_Connor
17:45:48 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
17:45:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/11/05-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC