19:40:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #crypto
19:40:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/28-crypto-irc
19:40:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:40:22 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #crypto
19:40:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be CRYPT
19:40:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SEC_WebCryp()4:00PM scheduled to start in 20 minutes
19:40:25 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Cryptography Working Group Teleconference
19:40:25 <trackbot> Date: 28 October 2013
19:46:37 <MichaelH> MichaelH has joined #crypto
19:48:45 <Zakim> SEC_WebCryp()4:00PM has now started
19:48:46 <Zakim> +Michael_Hutchinson
19:51:36 <sangrae> sangrae has joined #crypto
19:55:16 <jimsch> jimsch has joined #crypto
19:55:54 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
19:55:55 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
19:55:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
19:56:18 <jimsch> zakrim, [ipcaller] is jimsch
19:56:52 <danny_> danny_ has joined #crypto
19:57:03 <Zakim> + +1.617.253.aaaa
19:58:11 <jyates> 617.253.aaaa is jyates
19:58:17 <Zakim> +Virginie_Galindo
19:59:03 <Zakim> +Wendy
19:59:37 <israelh> israelh has joined #Crypto
20:00:11 <markw> markw has joined #crypto
20:00:29 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
20:00:32 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
20:00:34 <wseltzer> zakim, who is here?
20:00:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Hutchinson, [IPcaller], +1.617.253.aaaa, Virginie_Galindo, Wendy, [IPcaller.a], [Microsoft]
20:00:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see markw, israelh, danny_, jimsch, sangrae, Zakim, RRSAgent, arunranga, jyates, malaclyps, trackbot, rsleevi, timeless, slightlyoff, wseltzer
20:00:45 <wseltzer> zakim, Microsoft has israelh
20:00:45 <Zakim> +israelh; got it
20:00:52 <Zakim> +[Netflix]
20:00:57 <wseltzer> zakim [IPcaller.a is Sangrae
20:01:05 <wseltzer> zakim, [IPcaller.a is Sangrae
20:01:05 <Zakim> +Sangrae; got it
20:01:14 <markw> Zakim, [Netflix] is me
20:01:14 <Zakim> +markw; got it
20:01:14 <jimsch> zakim, [ipcaller] is jimsch
20:01:15 <Zakim> +jimsch; got it
20:01:22 <wseltzer> zakim, who is on the phone?
20:01:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Hutchinson, jimsch, +1.617.253.aaaa, Virginie_Galindo, Wendy, Sangrae, [Microsoft], markw
20:01:24 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has israelh
20:01:45 <wseltzer> zakim, aaaa is jyates
20:01:45 <Zakim> +jyates; got it
20:01:51 <Zakim> +arunranga
20:02:20 <MichaelH> MichaelH has joined #crypto
20:02:24 <wseltzer> wseltzer has changed the topic to: Agenda 28 Oct: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2013Oct/0035.html
20:02:27 <arunranga> zakim, mute me
20:02:27 <Zakim> arunranga should now be muted
20:03:01 <wseltzer> agenda+ welcome
20:03:08 <wseltzer> agenda+ Web Crypto API
20:03:14 <wseltzer> agenda+ Web Crypto API
20:03:16 <Zakim> + +1.650.275.aabb
20:03:24 <wseltzer> zakim, aabb is rsleevi
20:03:24 <Zakim> +rsleevi; got it
20:03:32 <arunranga> Zakim, who is on the call?
20:03:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Hutchinson, jimsch, jyates, Virginie_Galindo, Wendy, Sangrae, [Microsoft], markw, arunranga (muted), rsleevi
20:03:35 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has israelh
20:03:38 <wseltzer> agenda+ key discovery
20:03:42 <wseltzer> agenda+ group life
20:03:55 <Zakim> + +1.703.284.aacc
20:04:06 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
20:04:10 <wseltzer> zakim, aacc is rbarnes
20:04:10 <Zakim> +rbarnes; got it
20:04:25 <wseltzer> zakim, Microsoft.a has vgb
20:04:25 <Zakim> +vgb; got it
20:04:37 <rbarnes> rbarnes has joined #crypto
20:04:48 <rbarnes> zakim, who is on the phone?
20:04:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Hutchinson, jimsch, jyates, Virginie_Galindo, Wendy, Sangrae, [Microsoft], markw, arunranga (muted), rsleevi, rbarnes, [Microsoft.a]
20:04:51 <Zakim> [Microsoft.a] has vgb
20:04:51 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has israelh
20:04:56 <vgb> vgb has joined #crypto
20:05:10 <MichaelH_> MichaelH_ has joined #crypto
20:05:15 <vgb> zakim, who is on the call?
20:05:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Hutchinson, jimsch, jyates, Virginie_Galindo, Wendy, Sangrae, [Microsoft], markw, arunranga (muted), rsleevi, rbarnes, [Microsoft.a]
20:05:18 <Zakim> [Microsoft.a] has vgb
20:05:18 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has israelh
20:06:03 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek has joined #crypto
20:06:17 <nvdbleek> zakim, code?
20:06:17 <Zakim> the conference code is 27978 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek
20:06:18 <wseltzer> scribenick: jimsch
20:06:23 <wseltzer> q?
20:06:30 <rsleevi> Scribe: Jim Schaad
20:07:17 <jimsch> Will skip the topic on Dan comments since Dan is not present.
20:07:45 <jimsch> Isreal: Questions on text for promises model
20:07:53 <Zakim> +nvdbleek
20:07:58 <nvdbleek> zakim, mute me
20:07:58 <Zakim> nvdbleek should now be muted
20:08:22 <wseltzer> i/Scribe:/Topic: WebCrypto API
20:08:23 <jimsch> ... Questions on stylistic for patterns to follow
20:09:16 <jimsch> ... Q1 - Using a mixture of exception throughing and promise failures.  Seems better to always call reject resolver
20:09:36 <hhalpin> hhalpin has joined #crypto
20:09:50 <jimsch> ... Easier programing since not try catching.  Now have unified handling through promises
20:09:50 <rsleevi> q+ to respond to Q1 - exceptions versus failure
20:10:09 <wseltzer> ack next
20:10:10 <Zakim> rsleevi, you wanted to respond to Q1 - exceptions versus failure
20:10:27 <jimsch> rsleevi: Can carry on more discussion on the maiing list.
20:10:38 <MichaelH> MichaelH has joined #crypto
20:11:01 <jimsch> ... One issue with web IDO invlaalid objects are defined as exceptions, so some external things can though exceptions
20:11:15 <arunranga> s/IDO/IDL
20:11:23 <jimsch> ... Exceptions during the parameter validation, failures on the resolver for the implemention related failures
20:11:23 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:11:30 <hhalpin> Zakim, [IPcaller] is hhalpin
20:11:30 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
20:11:50 <wseltzer> q?
20:12:27 <jimsch> Isrealh:  Q2 - Reconciing the promises model and a stream based model.  These are currently orthognal at this time.
20:12:55 <jimsch> ... Verify that things may need to change to deal with streams in the future
20:13:28 <jimsch> rsleevi: Streams are still messy and not finalized.  Depends on where the stream spec goes
20:14:39 <jimsch> Isreal:  Verify that we may need to modify the API when streams become supported.   Should potentially note this in the current spec if not already done
20:15:12 <jimsch> rsleevi: Next thing to be worked on.  But yes there will be some API changes to make streams first class objects
20:15:31 <hhalpin> q+
20:15:35 <rsleevi> ACTION: rsleevi to add note re: streams
20:15:35 <jimsch> virginia When will the stream sepc be stable?
20:15:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-120 - Add note re: streams [on Ryan Sleevi - due 2013-11-04].
20:15:37 <arunranga> q+ to talk about Streams.
20:15:44 <arunranga> zakim, unmute me
20:15:44 <Zakim> arunranga should no longer be muted
20:16:32 <jimsch> Isreal: Mid next year maybe
20:16:46 <arunranga> q-
20:17:20 <jimsch> ... Q3: In the event model, did we have ability to reuse crypto opertions?  Was this true?
20:17:42 <arunranga> zakim, mute me
20:17:42 <Zakim> arunranga should now be muted
20:17:45 <jimsch> rsleevi: No state transition to allow to go from filnish to re-init.
20:18:18 <hhalpin> Quick point re streams - 7.4.3
20:18:28 <hhalpin> "Feature at Risk": http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr
20:18:37 <jimsch> ... Need clarifition regarding parameters for nested streaming.
20:18:39 <hhalpin> We are supposed to exit CR June next year
20:18:47 <hhalpin> so that's cutting it a bit close
20:19:02 <hhalpin> but adding a note re streams as a feature at risk should be fine, otherwise next version.
20:19:14 <wseltzer> q?
20:19:23 <jimsch> Isreal:  Need to clarify when things go in on promisses and when things need to be broken appart re parameters
20:20:14 <hhalpin> q-
20:20:25 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
20:20:56 <jimsch> agenda, next
20:21:18 <wseltzer> Topic: PING review
20:21:21 <wseltzer> -> http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/track/actions/119
20:22:04 <jimsch> wseltzer:  PING group has prepared comments on the API.  With suggestion that we review their comments - may lead to new privacy considertions
20:23:04 <jimsch> ..... Most of the issues are in key discovery and pre-previsioned keys
20:23:21 <jimsch> ... Need someone to take an action to review and respond to PING
20:23:41 <jimsch> Virginia:  Mark should look at the key discrovery items
20:23:52 <wseltzer> ACTION markw to review PING privacy review
20:23:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-121 - Review ping privacy review [on Mark Watson - due 2013-11-04].
20:23:58 <jimsch> ... Should be the document editors looking at these items
20:24:04 <hhalpin> q+
20:24:18 <hhalpin> Its fine to go to Last Call as long as Working Group has closed open issues
20:24:20 <jimsch> ... Target to answer before end of Nov, after F2F meeting
20:24:46 <wseltzer> q+
20:24:49 <wseltzer> ack hhalpin
20:25:01 <hhalpin> ack hhalpin
20:25:54 <jimsch> ... Should have agenda item at F2F to review privacy aspects
20:26:06 <wseltzer> action virginie to add horizontal reviews, including privacy, to TPAC f2f agenda
20:26:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-122 - Add horizontal reviews, including privacy, to tpac f2f agenda [on Virginie GALINDO - due 2013-11-04].
20:26:11 <wseltzer> q-
20:26:18 <hhalpin> I think to satisfy PING is pretty simple - its mostly moving text from WebCrypto API to Key Discovery
20:26:26 <hhalpin> with whatever otpions are necessary
20:26:57 <wseltzer> Topic: Technical proposals on Key Discovery API
20:27:34 <jimsch> markw: Current status is ryan and I have been having discussions on techincal merits
20:27:44 <jimsch> ... Certificate references is one issue.
20:28:03 <jimsch> .. Possible create new interface for certifictes, did not intend to go that far initially
20:28:45 <jimsch> ... Looking for stratigies to identify ceritifctes associated with keys held behind the U
20:28:51 <wseltzer> q?
20:29:20 <rsleevi> q+
20:29:27 <wseltzer> s/markw/MichaelH/
20:29:39 <wseltzer> ack rsleevi
20:30:04 <jimsch> rsleevi: Working group not ready to take on the item based on lack of comments coming from the list
20:30:25 <arunranga> +1 rsleevi.
20:30:34 <jimsch> ... Understand where the use case is coming from, but need to understand more than the one case
20:31:13 <jimsch> MichealH:  Some lack of interest on the list for all things
20:31:28 <hhalpin> Should we just keep certificates for WebCrypto v.Next?
20:31:48 <jimsch> virginie: Need to test the interest of the group more formally?
20:31:56 <markw> q+
20:32:09 <jimsch> ... Look at this at the F2F for assement of interest
20:32:12 <hhalpin> I also might add having less discussion on the list and stopping new features from being added is generally means the spec is mature enough for Last Call.
20:32:51 <jimsch> mark: Looking for concusus on the use cse before including in the document
20:33:15 <arunranga> zakim, unmute me
20:33:15 <Zakim> arunranga should no longer be muted
20:33:16 <markw> s/including in the document/studying the proposal in detail/
20:33:45 <jimsch> ???:  Will ther ebe a dial in number?
20:33:54 <jimsch> virginie: No response to inital requerst on this
20:33:57 <arunranga> s/???/arunranga:
20:34:02 <jimsch> s/requerst/request/
20:34:25 <jimsch> wseltzer: Have requested and are expecting to have availble
20:34:28 <arunranga> zakim, mute me
20:34:28 <Zakim> arunranga should now be muted
20:34:37 <jimsch> q?
20:34:37 <hhalpin> So, a dial-in is likely and will be emailed to the mailing list once available.
20:34:37 <wseltzer> q?
20:34:47 <wseltzer> ack markw
20:34:51 <markw> q-
20:35:23 <jimsch> Topic: Group Life
20:35:37 <jimsch> virginie:  Listed topics for the F2F agenda
20:36:16 <jimsch> ... Currently have two days laid out, but need to reclarify what was expected to have happen
20:36:41 <jimsch> hhalpin: Close all major issues on the first day
20:36:52 <jimsch> .... Look at use cses on the second day
20:37:11 <jimsch> ... If open issues bled intot he second day, that is more important
20:37:45 <jimsch> virginie: Need to look at test as well.
20:38:32 <jimsch> ... Edit the Wiki to add things related to the current specifications if they are missing
20:38:48 <jimsch> ... Agree main objective is to close open issues
20:39:21 <jimsch> ... New issues will only be discussed if they are really new
20:39:53 <jimsch> ... Want to freeze time for remote attendees to be able to get in
20:40:02 <nvdbleek> zakim, unmute me
20:40:02 <Zakim> nvdbleek should no longer be muted
20:40:17 <jimsch> ... Any europe based remote attendees?
20:40:27 <jimsch> nvdbleek:  I think i might
20:40:40 <nvdbleek> zakim, mute me
20:40:40 <Zakim> nvdbleek should now be muted
20:40:46 <jimsch> virginie:  Will make proposal on timings, let me know if that does not work well.
20:40:54 <jimsch> ... Should come out next week
20:41:03 <MichaelH> q+
20:41:05 <jimsch> ... Any other issues?
20:41:17 <wseltzer> ack next
20:41:20 <hhalpin> If we have some time, we can kill issues :)
20:41:29 <hhalpin> Which group MichaelH?
20:41:56 <hhalpin> Chair likely forgot
20:42:37 <MichaelH> SysApps
20:42:47 <jimsch> ... Web security interset group had charter renewed.  I am co-chairing and the gorup is now alive
20:43:10 <jimsch> ... Looking at mobile web app securtiy model
20:43:46 <jimsch> ... People in this group might be interesed in joining and looking at the mailing list
20:44:07 <jimsch> ... Contact me or wendy to get more info
20:44:10 <wseltzer> q?
20:44:12 <hhalpin> q+
20:45:11 <MichaelH> @hhalpin so do I need to ask again somewhere?
20:45:24 <rsleevi> @MichaelH: email the chair of that group
20:45:44 <MichaelH> SysApps
20:45:59 <wseltzer> wseltzer has changed the topic to: See you at TPAC
20:46:07 <Zakim> -rbarnes
20:46:09 <Zakim> -nvdbleek
20:46:10 <Zakim> -jyates
20:46:10 <Zakim> -markw
20:46:11 <wseltzer> [adjourned]
20:46:11 <Zakim> -rsleevi
20:46:13 <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
20:46:15 <Zakim> -Sangrae
20:46:15 <Zakim> -Virginie_Galindo
20:46:17 <Zakim> -Wendy
20:46:19 <Zakim> -jimsch
20:46:25 <wseltzer> trackbot, end teleconf
20:46:25 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
20:46:25 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Michael_Hutchinson, +1.617.253.aaaa, Virginie_Galindo, Wendy, israelh, Sangrae, markw, jimsch, jyates, arunranga, +1.650.275.aabb, rsleevi,
20:46:28 <Zakim> ... +1.703.284.aacc, [Microsoft], rbarnes, vgb, nvdbleek, hhalpin
20:46:28 <Zakim> -hhalpin
20:46:29 <Zakim> -arunranga
20:46:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:46:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/28-crypto-minutes.html trackbot
20:46:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
20:46:34 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/28-crypto-actions.rdf :
20:46:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: rsleevi to add note re: streams [1]
20:46:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/28-crypto-irc#T20-15-35