20:02:20 RRSAgent has joined #webfonts 20:02:20 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/23-webfonts-irc 20:02:22 RRSAgent, make logs world 20:02:22 Zakim has joined #webfonts 20:02:24 Zakim, this will be 3668 20:02:24 ok, trackbot; I see IA_Fonts()4:00PM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago 20:02:25 Meeting: WebFonts Working Group Teleconference 20:02:25 Date: 23 October 2013 20:02:30 zakim, who is here? 20:02:31 IA_Fonts()4:00PM has not yet started, Vlad 20:02:31 On IRC I see RRSAgent, raph, cslye, Vlad, behdad, jdaggett, trackbot 20:02:43 zakim, this is 3668 20:02:43 ok, Vlad; that matches IA_Fonts()4:00PM 20:02:48 zakim, who is here? 20:02:48 On the phone I see [Adobe], [Google], Vlad 20:02:50 On IRC I see RRSAgent, raph, cslye, Vlad, behdad, jdaggett, trackbot 20:03:44 sergeym has joined #webfonts 20:03:56 kuettel has joined #webfonts 20:04:22 +[Google.a] 20:08:05 scribenick: raph 20:09:02 recap of agenda 20:09:08 one extra item: discussion of TTC 20:09:23 we have relatively complete minutes of F2F meeting, most discussion captured 20:10:13 AI followup for raph: contact IETF reps at Google 20:10:29 raph has contacted Google reps with dual IETF/W3C affiliation, no response yet 20:10:43 Brotli encoder reference implementation has been published as open source 20:10:54 announcement email was sent to list, probably held for moderation 20:11:23 doesn't make sense to review evaluation report for now, as chris lilley is not here 20:11:43 waiting on chris lilley to finalize draft 20:13:08 TTC issue has been discussed in detail in 2010 on wg reflector 20:13:20 TTC can be used as webfonts, maybe some quirks need to be worked out 20:13:42 at the moment, can only reference font #1 in the resource. Nothing in CSS that lets us reference other fonts 20:13:58 This is the biggest issue that holds back usage of TTC 20:16:58 container format would need to support multiple font headers 20:18:31 vlad: WOFF 1 attempts to replicate TTF header, this wouldn't be a problem with whole-stream compression 20:19:34 raph: would affect TTC because of preprocessing step 20:20:15 regrets: John Hudson, Jonathan Kew 20:20:52 vlad: could Raph investigate how the preprocessing step would affect ttc files 20:20:55 raph: yes 20:21:26 adam twardoch suggested that ttc fonts may be useful to represent multiple color schemes for a color font 20:21:57 fonts in the collection would share outlines but have different color palette tables 20:22:15 ttc is currently niche in usage 20:22:26 vlad: it is something we should support 20:23:01 kuettel: are we talking about just making the font format support ttc, or also pushing out changes all the way to the browser? 20:23:12 vlad: we should make the wire format support it first, then consider other changes 20:23:41 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012May/0217.html 20:24:27 css is currently biggest obstacle 20:26:42 raph: concern about backwards compatibility: css has no way to conditionally use TTC if supported, fall back to separate TTF fonts if not 20:26:53 action: raph to investigate the TTC support as part of the WOFF 2.0 pre-processing mechanism 20:26:53 Created ACTION-122 - Investigate the ttc support as part of the woff 2.0 pre-processing mechanism [on Raph Levien - due 2013-10-30]. 20:27:12 so backwards compatibility story is not as good as for woff2, where fallback to woff1 is transparent 20:29:50 -[Google.a] 20:29:55 raph: now is a good time to consider wire format changes, because we're going to be making changes to the wire format to simplify per-table vs whole-font and flate vs brotli switches 20:30:43 cslye: decision to do whole font only (not provide a per table option) seemed pretty definitive in f2f 20:30:46 +[Google.a] 20:32:11 vlad: recap of report on media types 20:32:28 vlad has a sense that people are much more open to new media type registrations than before 20:32:55 previously, whenever any proposal for a top-level type came to iana, there would be immediate argument against 20:33:08 this is what sunk the proposal in 2004, but doesn't seem to be the case any more 20:34:27 vlad: it's likely to be approved only if we have convincing evidence that it will make things significantly than the status quo 20:35:07 main criticism is: what difference does it make what the actual string identifier is? is existing identifier good enough? 20:35:16 we would need to provide an answer to this as part of the proposal 20:35:54 vlad: coming up with "bulletproof" justification of why font/foo is better than application/font-foo is difficult 20:36:03 cslye agrees 20:37:01 vlad: larry masinter might be a useful resource for this discussion within adobe; he's been actively involved in ietf and standards work 20:38:14 vlad: plea to group: can we find a person to help us make the case that font/ is superior? 20:39:15 vlad: once we have that, actually drafting the proposal will probably be the easiest task 20:39:45 much existing prior work, including application/font-sfnt (was accepted with minimal controversy) 20:40:33 vlad will be at iso meeting next week 20:40:39 let's try to do as much as possible on email list 20:42:13 easier to refer to, and easier for people not able to join the phone call 20:43:01 won't have call next week 20:43:42 -[Adobe] 20:43:50 rrsagent, generate minutes 20:43:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/23-webfonts-minutes.html Vlad 20:43:58 cslye has left #webfonts 20:45:40 -[Google] 20:45:43 -[Google.a] 20:52:14 behdad has joined #webfonts 21:05:00 disconnecting the lone participant, Vlad, in IA_Fonts()4:00PM 21:05:01 IA_Fonts()4:00PM has ended 21:05:01 Attendees were [Adobe], [Google], Vlad 22:15:01 Zakim has left #webfonts