14:51:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
14:51:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/23-rdf-wg-irc
14:51:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:51:12 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
14:51:14 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
14:51:14 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
14:51:15 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:51:15 <trackbot> Date: 23 October 2013
14:51:30 <Guus> Guus has joined #rdf-wg
14:51:57 <Guus> trackbot, start meeting
14:51:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:52:01 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
14:52:01 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
14:52:02 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:52:02 <trackbot> Date: 23 October 2013
14:52:32 <Guus> chair: Guus
14:55:39 <gkellogg> gkellogg has joined #rdf-wg
14:56:18 <ScottB> ScottB has joined #rdf-wg
14:58:33 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
14:58:41 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber
14:59:29 <Zakim> +??P8
14:59:30 <Zakim> +GavinC
14:59:37 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P8
14:59:37 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
15:00:33 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
15:00:47 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:00:47 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
15:00:49 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
15:00:49 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
15:00:58 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: RDF WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.10.23
15:01:26 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:02:11 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:02:24 <ivan> zakim, mute me
15:02:24 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
15:03:14 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-mobile
15:03:14 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
15:03:15 <Zakim> +EricP
15:03:54 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-wg
15:03:55 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:04:28 <Zakim> +??P1
15:04:47 <Souri> zakim, ??P1 is me
15:04:47 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
15:04:51 <PatH> PatH has joined #rdf-wg
15:05:11 <Zakim> +AZ
15:05:31 <Zakim> +PatH
15:05:32 <markus> markus has joined #rdf-wg
15:05:55 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-wg
15:06:20 <Zakim> +??P15
15:06:23 <markus> zakim, ??P15 is me
15:06:23 <Zakim> +markus; got it
15:06:40 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
15:06:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, GavinC, gkellogg, TallTed (muted), Sandro, Ivan (muted), EricP, Souri, AZ, PatH, markus
15:06:43 <Guus> scribe: EricP
15:07:07 <zwu2> zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
15:07:32 <ericP> PROPOSED: to accept http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-10-09 as a record of 9 Oct
15:07:34 <Zakim> +Tony
15:07:37 <Zakim> +zwu2
15:07:42 <ericP> RESOLVED: to accept http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-10-09 as a record of 9 Oct
15:07:45 <gavinc> +1 (now that the turtle is clear)
15:07:50 <ScottB> Zakim, Tony is temporarily me
15:07:50 <Zakim> +ScottB; got it
15:07:52 <ivan> +1
15:07:56 <ericP> PROPOSED: to accept http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-10-16 as a record of 16 Oct
15:08:05 <ericP> RESOLVED: to accept http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-10-16 as a record of 16 Oct
15:09:15 <PatH> +1
15:10:44 <ericP> next telecon: 30 Oct
15:10:59 <ericP> Topic: LC Comments on Concepts, Semantics, TriG, N-Triples, N-Quads
15:11:22 <ericP> jjc wrote an objection to ISSUE-142
15:11:32 <ericP> Guus: jjc wrote an objection to ISSUE-142
15:11:42 <ericP> ... propose we open a new issue
15:12:05 <ericP> sandro: title "stronger semantics for datasets?"
15:12:27 <ericP> Guus: we can archive where we are and leave it, potentially, for a future WG
15:12:39 <PatH> +1 to Guus' plan
15:12:47 <ivan> +1
15:12:48 <AZ> re. next telecon: next week, Northern American will leave daylight saving time, while Europe is still in Summer Time
15:12:52 <sandro> +1
15:12:57 <ericP> s/open a new issue/open and postpone a new issue/
15:13:52 <PatH> I am already enjoying my pension and I'm still here :-(
15:14:14 <ericP> PROPOSED: open an "stronger semantics for datasets?" issue and postpone
15:14:19 <ericP> RESOLVED: open an "stronger semantics for datasets?" issue and postpone
15:14:21 <TallTed> +1
15:14:29 <AZ> +1
15:14:42 <ericP> action: Guus to draft and postpone "stronger semantics for datasets?" issue
15:14:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-311 - Draft and postpone "stronger semantics for datasets?" issue [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-10-30].
15:15:46 <sandro> issue-148?
15:15:46 <trackbot> issue-148 -- LC comment: IRIs do *not* always denote the same resource -- open
15:15:46 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/148
15:16:12 <PatH> 148 is an action on Concpets, right?
15:16:23 <sandro> +1 postpone 148 until after CR is published (it's editorial) and close the others
15:16:37 <markus> yes, path
15:19:30 <ericP> PROPOSED: close ISSUE 145, ISSUE 147, ISSUE 159 without changes from the CR publication as agreed in email.
15:20:17 <ericP> PROPOSED: close ISSUE-145, ISSUE-147, ISSUE-159 with changes from the CR publication as agreed in email.
15:20:21 <sandro> +1
15:20:24 <ericP> +1
15:20:25 <PatH> +1
15:20:26 <gkellogg> +1
15:20:28 <Guus> +1
15:20:29 <gavinc> +1
15:20:29 <zwu2> +1
15:20:30 <ivan> +1
15:20:30 <markus> +1
15:20:34 <TallTed> +1
15:20:37 <ericP> RESOLVED: close ISSUE-145, ISSUE-147, ISSUE-159 with changes from the CR publication as agreed in email.
15:21:11 <AZ> +1
15:21:31 <sandro> PROPOSED: Consider ISSUE-148 non-blocking -- we can publish while leaving it open to handle later, as it is editorial and the commenter agrees with this plan
15:21:43 <sandro> +1
15:21:45 <gkellogg> +1
15:21:47 <ericP> +1
15:21:47 <AZ> +1
15:21:48 <markus> +1
15:21:48 <PatH> +1
15:21:49 <ivan> +1
15:21:49 <Guus> +1
15:21:51 <zwu2> +1
15:21:53 <TallTed> +1
15:22:00 <sandro> RESOLVED: Consider ISSUE-148 non-blocking -- we can publish while leaving it open to handle later, as it is editorial and the commenter agrees with this plan
15:22:23 <sandro> issue-127?
15:22:23 <trackbot> issue-127 -- Comment: multiple ways to encode string codepoints -- open
15:22:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/127
15:23:11 <sandro> PROPOSED: close issue-127 -- we believe we've addressed it, and are timing out on response from commenter
15:23:24 <sandro> s/response/confirmation/
15:23:26 <sandro> +1
15:23:35 <PatH> +1
15:23:37 <TallTed> +1
15:23:38 <ericP> +1
15:23:40 <AZ> +1
15:23:40 <Guus> +1
15:23:40 <gkellogg> +1
15:23:41 <ivan> +1
15:23:45 <zwu2> +1
15:23:46 <sandro> PROPOSED: close issue-127 -- we believe we've addressed it, and are timing out on confirmation from commenter
15:23:56 <markus> +1
15:23:59 <sandro> RESOLVED: close issue-127 -- we believe we've addressed it, and are timing out on confirmation from commenter
15:24:02 <gavinc> +1
15:24:44 <sandro> guus: Close issue-143, based on verbal confirmation from commenter that he's satisfied
15:24:53 <ericP> Guus, ISSUE-143 closed after discussion with Paul who is happy with gavin's response
15:25:32 <ericP> Guus: PatH there are two folks who have proposed changes to your edits
15:25:55 <ericP> PatH: []s change is a stylistic issue and i want to minimize ambiguity
15:26:32 <ericP> [closing ISSUE-165 expecting PatH to respond after this call]
15:27:21 <sandro> guus: Commenter (MS) agreed ISSUE-165 and ISSUE-166 do not affect any tests.
15:27:26 <ericP> s/closing ISSUE-165/closing ISSUE-166/
15:28:21 <sandro> PROPOSED: Pat sends response to ISSUE-165 as in draft email.   We don't really expect this to satisfy commenter, but we can handle this during CR, given it's not a substantive change.
15:28:46 <sandro> +1
15:29:06 <ericP> Guus: note that the commenter agrees that this doesn't change any tests
15:29:14 <sandro> PROPOSED: Pat sends response to ISSUE-165 as in draft email.   We don't really expect this to satisfy commenter, but we can handle this during CR, given it's not a substantive change.    Commenter agrees we can handle this during CR.
15:29:17 <ericP> ... a la PatH's response to 148
15:29:53 <ericP> ... perhaps we invite Michael Schneider to a telecon
15:30:02 <sandro> +1
15:30:03 <AZ> What draft email are you referring to?
15:30:03 <ericP> PatH: i think it might be quicker in email
15:31:14 <AZ> I can't find it in my mails
15:31:16 <ericP> ACTION: PatH to respond to Michael Schneider and invite him to a telecon if the email doesn't resole the issue easily
15:31:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-312 - Respond to michael schneider and invite him to a telecon if the email doesn't resole the issue easily [on Patrick Hayes - due 2013-10-30].
15:31:50 <PatH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Oct/0231.html
15:31:54 <AZ> Ok I see it
15:32:08 <AZ> q+
15:32:48 <ericP> AZ: why not just send refs to email that we exchanged when we were debating this issue?
15:32:53 <ericP> Guus: i already did
15:33:13 <sandro> PROPOSED: Pat sends response to ISSUE-165 as in draft email.   We don't really expect this to satisfy commenter, but we can handle this during CR, given it's not a substantive change.    Commenter agrees we can handle this during CR.
15:33:14 <ericP> PatH: i can make a direct point which helps alleviate the tension
15:33:25 <sandro> +1
15:33:28 <AZ> +1
15:33:28 <ericP> +1
15:33:30 <PatH> +1
15:33:30 <Guus> +1
15:33:30 <gkellogg> +1
15:33:31 <ivan> +1
15:33:35 <zwu2> +1
15:33:36 <TallTed> +1
15:33:37 <markus> +1
15:33:50 <sandro> RESOLVED: Pat sends response to ISSUE-165 as in draft email.   We don't really expect this to satisfy commenter, but we can handle this during CR, given it's not a substantive change.    Commenter agrees we can handle this during CR.
15:34:27 <Souri> +1
15:34:27 <Zakim> -ScottB
15:34:33 <ScottB> ScottB has left #rdf-wg
15:34:35 <ericP> Guus: of 20 issue, 18 closed, 2 deferred to after CR, 1 closed over objection
15:34:59 <sandro>  PROPOSED: to request the Director to advance five RDF 1.1 documents to CR   (rdf11-concepts, rdf11-mt, n-quads, n-triples, triq)
15:35:00 <ericP> PROPOSED: to request the Director to advance five RDF 1.1 documents to CR
15:35:14 <sandro> +1
15:35:17 <markus> +1
15:35:26 <gkellogg> +1
15:35:27 <TallTed> +1
15:35:35 <ivan> +1
15:35:40 <gavinc> +1
15:35:41 <ericP> +1
15:35:41 <Guus> +1
15:35:42 <zwu2> +1
15:35:49 <sandro> RESOLVED: to request the Director to advance five RDF 1.1 documents to CR   (rdf11-concepts, rdf11-mt, n-quads, n-triples, trig)
15:36:00 <AZ> +1
15:36:15 <ericP> Guus: we already have a scheduled transition call
15:36:23 <ericP> sandro: in 1 week and 30 mins
15:36:56 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/RDF11-CR-Request
15:36:59 <ericP> ... need a week lead before call so need transtion req finalized some time today
15:37:13 <ericP> Guus: Semantics and Trig are not in CR format yet
15:37:42 <gkellogg_> gkellogg_ has joined #rdf-wg
15:38:06 <ericP> sandro: do we have a local bibliography that has nov 5 t for all these docs?
15:38:19 <ericP> markus: every doc has its own
15:38:41 <markus> the localBiblio part in the ReSpec config
15:39:34 <sandro> +1000 markus
15:40:18 <ericP> ACTION: markus to combine the local bibliographies of the docs to be pub'd (rdf11-concepts, rdf11-mt, n-quads, n-triples, trig) and put result at top level
15:40:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-313 - Combine the local bibliographies of the docs to be pub'd (rdf11-concepts, rdf11-mt, n-quads, n-triples, trig) and put result at top level [on Markus Lanthaler - due 2013-10-30].
15:41:48 <ericP> Guus, webmaster wants to see docs on 1 nov at the latest
15:41:53 <ericP> Guus: webmaster wants to see docs on 1 nov at the latest
15:42:20 <ericP> ... so all editors have to pubrules-ify their docs before then
15:43:51 <ericP> sandro: the i18n group confirmed that they recieved our response to Turtle i18n comments and those comments apply to Trig, et al
15:44:51 <ericP> Guus: comments on ntriples and nquads are catalogued on the comments page for concepts and semantics
15:45:07 <ericP> ... sandro, are you content with the evidence of public review?
15:45:31 <ericP> sandro: considered breaking it out per doc but not worth it
15:45:56 <ericP> Guus: who will attend the transition call?
15:46:34 <Zakim> -PatH
15:46:36 <ericP> [ gavinc, PatH, davidwood, markus ]
15:47:18 <Zakim> +PatH
15:47:22 <ericP> topic: JSON-LD
15:47:48 <markus> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON-LD-PR-Request
15:48:14 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON-LD-PR-Request JSON-LD-PR-Request
15:48:39 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON-LD-PR-Request#Formal_Responses_to_All_Issues_Raised issues
15:48:47 <ericP> markus: we got four issues:
15:50:14 <ericP> ... .. on ISSUE-164, no response yet from Pierre-Antoine. expect one by transition
15:50:16 <sandro> sandro: let's say "no response yet" instead of "unresponsive", if we haven't given them much time.
15:50:57 <ericP> ... .. ISSUE-153: Ryan Laboucane wasn't happy with bnodes as properties. he's content with the resolution
15:52:00 <ericP> ... .. ISSUE-163: not sure that Simon Grant will be content with the resolution
15:52:52 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
15:52:52 <ericP> gkellogg_: expect he will not be content
15:53:02 <ericP> ... we've made the changes that we expect to make
15:54:34 <ericP> Guus: reading the response to issue-163, he has some suggestions but appears content.
15:54:41 <ericP> ... closing issue-163
15:54:56 <gkellogg> s/gkellogg_/gkellogg/
15:55:53 <ericP> markus: ISSUE-162: Michael Pizzo is content that JSON-LD is already more or less aligned with OData and it uses a different OData which just uses app/json
15:56:38 <ericP> Guus: i propose closing these 4 and change 163's resolution to be a yes [in http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON-LD-PR-Request#Formal_Responses_to_All_Issues_Raised ]
15:56:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:56:59 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me
15:56:59 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:57:29 <Guus> q?
15:57:37 <Guus> ack AZ
15:57:43 <ericP> markus, if we get an email, i'll update the issue-162 Commenter Accepted Changes column
15:57:49 <ericP> markus: if we get an email, i'll update the issue-162 Commenter Accepted Changes column
15:58:42 <markus> http://json-ld.org/test-suite/reports/
15:59:09 <ericP> markus: re: passing CR exit criteria, just link to the http://json-ld.org/test-suite/reports/ and point to the 6 impls at 100%
15:59:35 <ericP> ... exit criteria were that we needed 2 impls for any given test but no impl needed to pass all the tests
16:00:04 <sandro> PROPOSED: We believe the json-ld and json-ld-api CR Exit Criteria have been met.   We have more than two implements passing each test.
16:00:23 <markus> +1
16:00:24 <gkellogg> +1
16:00:25 <Guus> +1
16:00:27 <ericP> +1 look at all that green
16:00:29 <sandro> +1
16:00:33 <ivan> +1
16:00:33 <Souri> +1
16:00:38 <TallTed> +1
16:00:42 <gavinc> -0 tests of toRDF are not all valid RDF
16:00:43 <AZ> +1
16:01:14 <sandro> RESOLVED: We believe the json-ld and json-ld-api CR Exit Criteria have been met.   We have more than two implements passing each test.
16:01:51 <ericP> gkellogg: note that one of our tests produces nquads with a bnode in the subject position
16:01:55 <sandro> gkellogg: Gavin point is that one of the test uses invalid n-quads .... but it's not test n-quads, so it's not a huge problem.
16:02:18 <ericP> ... we do textual checking of results, but it's not really nquads
16:02:42 <Guus> PROPOSED: to request the Director to advance JSON-LD to PR
16:02:51 <gkellogg> +1
16:02:54 <ericP> +1
16:03:04 <AZ> +1
16:03:06 <markus> +1
16:03:09 <sandro> +1
16:03:12 <TallTed> +1
16:03:19 <Guus> +1
16:03:21 <ivan> +1
16:03:21 <ericP> gkellogg: by "JSON-LD", we mean both docs
16:03:41 <Guus> PR request: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON-LD-PR-Request
16:03:50 <zwu2> +1
16:03:56 <Souri> +1
16:04:37 <ericP> RESOLVED: to request the Director to advance JSON-LD ( http://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/ http://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld-api/ ) to PR
16:06:02 <ericP> ACTION: markus to finish the transition request and close the issues, adapt issue text
16:06:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-314 - Finish the transition request and close the issues, adapt issue text [on Markus Lanthaler - due 2013-10-30].
16:06:32 <zwu2> have to leave for another meeting. bye guys
16:06:40 <ericP> markus: docs are pubrules-ready
16:06:44 <Zakim> -zwu2
16:06:49 <sandro> q+
16:07:21 <Guus> ack sandro
16:08:02 <ericP> sandro: reading over the CR req, i simplified the exit criteria wording a bit ("each approved test is passed by two or more impls")
16:08:04 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/RDF11-CR-Request#Implementation_Information
16:08:40 <ericP> ... i also added a paragraph about why we have no exit criteria for Concepts
16:09:24 <ericP> ... the other four docs had exit criteria so the hole for Concepts was conspicuous
16:09:27 <sandro> PROPOSED:  For Trig, N-Triples and N-Quads: each approved test (in the respective test suite) passed by two or more implementations.     AND RDF 1.1 Concepts (like 2004 RDF Concepts) does not have a test suite and is not directly implemented in software.
16:09:46 <ericP> +1
16:09:47 <Guus> +1
16:09:48 <TallTed> +1
16:09:50 <sandro> +1
16:09:50 <gkellogg> +1
16:09:58 <gavinc> +1
16:10:03 <AZ> +1
16:10:04 <markus> +1
16:10:19 <sandro> RESOLVED:  For Trig, N-Triples and N-Quads: each approved test (in the respective test suite) passed by two or more implementations.     AND RDF 1.1 Concepts (like 2004 RDF Concepts) does not have a test suite and is not directly implemented in software.
16:10:46 <ivan> NEXT WEEK IS TIMEZONE MESS FOR EUROPEANS!!!
16:10:53 <ericP> WHEE!
16:10:56 <AndyS> YES
16:11:20 <ericP> PatH: just sent mail to Michael Schneider
16:11:45 <ericP> Guus: next week the meetings will be one hour ealier for europeans
16:11:55 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:11:56 <Zakim> -Souri
16:11:58 <Zakim> -gkellogg
16:11:59 <Zakim> -PatH
16:12:01 <Zakim> -GavinC
16:12:03 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:12:12 <Zakim> -markus
16:12:13 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:12:14 <Zakim> -AZ
16:12:16 <Zakim> -TallTed
16:12:22 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting
16:12:22 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:12:23 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Guus_Schreiber, GavinC, gkellogg, TallTed, Sandro, Ivan, EricP, Souri, AZ, PatH, markus, zwu2, ScottB, AndyS
16:12:28 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:12:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:12:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/23-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot
16:12:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:12:31 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/23-rdf-wg-actions.rdf :
16:12:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus to draft and postpone "stronger semantics for datasets?" issue [1]
16:12:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/23-rdf-wg-irc#T15-14-42
16:12:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: PatH to respond to Michael Schneider and invite him to a telecon if the email doesn't resole the issue easily [2]
16:12:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/23-rdf-wg-irc#T15-31-16
16:12:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: markus to combine the local bibliographies of the docs to be pub'd (rdf11-concepts, rdf11-mt, n-quads, n-triples, trig) and put result at top level [3]
16:12:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/23-rdf-wg-irc#T15-40-18
16:12:31 <RRSAgent> ACTION: markus to finish the transition request and close the issues, adapt issue text [4]
16:12:31 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/23-rdf-wg-irc#T16-06-02
16:12:43 <PatH> Sandro, you there?
16:12:49 <sandro> yes.