14:57:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
14:57:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/21-dpub-irc
14:57:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:50 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
14:57:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
14:57:52 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:57:53 <trackbot> Date: 21 October 2013
14:58:13 <Zakim> SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM has now started
14:58:14 <brady_duga> brady_duga has joined #dpub
14:58:20 <Zakim> +dauwhe
14:58:32 <brady_duga> Is the status message still valid?
14:58:39 <Zakim> +Ruben
14:58:40 <mgylling> brady, no
14:58:44 <brady_duga> ok
14:58:52 <Zakim> +??P13
14:58:52 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #dpub
14:59:01 <mgylling> Zakim, P13 is me
14:59:01 <Zakim> sorry, mgylling, I do not recognize a party named 'P13'
14:59:11 <mgylling> Zakim, ??P13 is me
14:59:14 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it
14:59:28 <Zakim> +Tzviya
14:59:40 <Zakim> +duga
14:59:54 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:00:20 <mgylling> regrets: Robert Sanderson, Frederick Hirsch
15:00:36 <Vlad> zakim, IPcaller is me
15:00:36 <Zakim> +Vlad; got it
15:00:38 <karen> zakim, code?
15:00:38 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), karen
15:00:41 <mgylling> zakim, who is noisy?
15:00:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
15:00:52 <Zakim> mgylling, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 6 (62%), mgylling (34%)
15:01:06 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers
15:01:17 <brady_duga> Is this a prisoner reference?
15:01:36 <Zakim> +JeanKaplansky
15:01:56 <karen> +1 muted person
15:01:58 <Zakim> +BillKasdorf
15:02:13 <JeanKaplansky> JeanKaplansky has joined #dpub
15:02:20 <Zakim> -Vlad
15:02:29 <Zakim> +Bert
15:02:37 <Bert> Bert has joined #dpub
15:02:44 <mgylling> zakim, who is here?
15:02:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see dauwhe, Ruben, mgylling, Tzviya, duga, Karen_Myers, JeanKaplansky, BillKasdorf, Bert
15:02:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bert, JeanKaplansky, Bill_Kasdorf, tzviya, brady_duga, Zakim, RRSAgent, Vlad, Hajar, mgylling, karen, dauwhe, trackbot, plinss, sandro
15:02:51 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:03:02 <Vlad> zakim, IPcaller is me
15:03:02 <Zakim> +Vlad; got it
15:03:13 <st> st has joined #dpub
15:04:00 <karen> Markus: any scribe volunteers today?
15:04:03 <Zakim> +plinss
15:04:21 <karen> Chair: Markus
15:04:23 <karen> Scribe: Karen
15:04:27 <Zakim> +Suzanne_Taylor
15:04:32 <karen> Markus: We did not meet last week but back in business now
15:04:39 <mgylling> last week's minutes: http://www.w3.org/dpub/DPUB-07-Oct-2013.htm
15:04:41 <karen> ...Minutes from previous week
15:04:49 <karen> ...Do we have any objections to approve them?
15:04:53 <karen> ...If so, speak up now
15:05:03 <karen> ...Good, as you may recall
15:05:08 <karen> ...there was not a track bot
15:05:14 <karen> ...because we changed channels
15:05:21 <karen> ...so last week's minutes are raw irc minutes
15:05:24 <karen> ...We are back to normal today
15:05:29 <karen> ...We have a mixed bag agenda today
15:05:33 <Suzanne_Taylor> Suzanne_Taylor has changed the topic to: Code this week is back to 3782
15:05:36 <karen> ...Some planning for TPAC Agenda
15:05:42 <karen> ...Some Administrative issues
15:05:52 <karen> ...before we get to the Task Force [work]
15:05:58 <Zakim> +Sharad_Garg
15:06:01 <karen> ...Do we have anyone who has not been with us before today?
15:06:04 <karen> ...No
15:06:10 <karen> ...Other small thing to relay for TPAC
15:06:15 <Sharad> Sharad has joined #dpub
15:06:22 <karen> ...Ivan told me there will be dial-in abilities
15:06:30 <karen> ...a conference line and irc channel
15:06:37 <karen> ...So you can partake in all or part
15:06:44 <karen> ...Details will be provided closer to TPAC
15:06:49 <karen> ...On to today's first discussion
15:07:06 <karen> ...As you know we have defined a set of task forces or sub-groups holding on a particular topic
15:07:13 <karen> ...What we want to start thinking about acting on
15:07:20 <karen> ...is to identify additional task forces
15:07:29 <karen> ...to speed up the process of use case and requirements production
15:07:38 <karen> ...Let's remind ourselves what we have currently for task forces
15:07:45 <karen> ...We have Pagination group with Dave Cramer
15:07:55 <karen> ...Social MEdia and Annotations with Robert Sanderson as lead
15:08:03 <karen> ...Accessibility with Suzanne Taylor from Pearson
15:08:09 <karen> ...And Jean Kaplansky for
15:08:11 <karen> ...MathML
15:08:18 <karen> ...is that correct, or is there a broader scope?
15:08:35 <karen> Jean: I was doing MathML but we also have broader scope which is @
15:08:41 <karen> Markus: Those are the four we have started
15:09:01 <karen> Markus: Question becomes how do we want to proceed
15:09:07 <tzviya> there is a broader-scoped group of STM
15:09:14 <karen> ...to start new ones and continue with existing ones
15:09:20 <karen> ...Let's do a quick evaluation of existing ones
15:09:25 <karen> ...Rob cannot be here today
15:09:38 <karen> ...What we know is that his group has been one of the most active getting stuff onto the wiki
15:09:49 <karen> ...which is the first stepping stone towards our final deliverables
15:09:57 <karen> ...Rob is in the Annotation CG
15:10:04 <karen> ...don't worry a lot about getting what we need in that area
15:10:10 <karen> ...If you go to the directory page on the wiki
15:10:22 <karen> ...we have gotten two thirds of the way on the use cases he has set out to enter
15:10:33 <karen> ...They have yet to be reviewed; but at a good early stage in the process
15:10:42 <karen> ...Do we have any more on Social and Media Annotations?
15:10:47 <karen> ...Shall we consider it running well?
15:10:54 <karen> ...Take that as a yes
15:10:58 <karen> ...In terms of other work groups
15:11:02 <karen> ...Dave, on Pagination
15:11:07 <karen> ...you are still in very early stages here
15:11:16 <karen> ...We have good news with an IE coming with expertise
15:11:18 <karen> Dave: yes
15:11:24 <karen> ...I will get in touch with his this week
15:11:27 <karen> ...he was approved
15:11:37 <karen> ...I have gotten a fair amount of work done on a pagination document
15:11:52 <karen> ...We need to work out how we get this into a publicly available location so people can comment
15:11:59 <karen> ...That is an official agenda item for today
15:12:01 <karen> Markus: yes
15:12:05 <karen> ...May be a bit early
15:12:16 <karen> ...If task forces have lack of resources, we should identify that
15:12:27 <karen> ...It's a tad too early in your case since you started so recently
15:12:31 <karen> Dave: yes, things are not at risk
15:12:34 <tzviya> q+
15:12:39 <karen> ...but I want to get it set up and on a server
15:12:48 <karen> ...and start getting feedback and contributions
15:12:52 <karen> ...Doing this in isolation now
15:12:59 <karen> ...would be a good next step to get this going
15:13:15 <mgylling> ack tzviya
15:13:16 <karen> Markus: let's talk about this
15:13:20 <Hajar_> Hajar_ has joined #dpub
15:13:27 <karen> ack Tzviya
15:13:38 <karen> Tzviya: a lot has to do with trade books
15:13:50 <karen> ...outside of this world, we may want to get input from the rest of publishing
15:13:55 <karen> Dave: that would be great
15:14:02 <karen> ...I have added some stuff that is not trade centric
15:14:07 <karen> ...writing in HTML not in Google doc
15:14:14 <karen> ...seems the discussion with Ivan
15:14:18 <karen> ...would be good
15:14:32 <karen> Markus: Point taken, Tzviya, we need to look at other domains
15:14:41 <karen> ...not just describing for the West
15:14:56 <karen> ...Ok, Suzanne, how do you describe your current state?
15:15:12 <karen> Suzanne: I am unsure about how to collect names who want to participate and how to set up the calls
15:15:21 <karen> ...first time running a W3C task force
15:15:32 <karen> Markus: it's up to us to define best way to do things
15:15:38 <karen> ...I would start by the mailing list
15:15:45 <karen> ...It has been a bit silent so far
15:15:55 <karen> ...Important to have requirements and use cases going there
15:15:57 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:16:01 <karen> ...it is automatically archived
15:16:10 <karen> ...so good to get discourse going on the mailing list
15:16:16 <karen> ...In terms of getting people to help you out
15:16:22 <karen> ...I have been reaching out to Benetech
15:16:28 <karen> ...they recently became a W3C member
15:16:35 <karen> ...and they are all about Accessibility
15:16:44 <karen> ...also will get a Daisy Consortium member to participate
15:16:55 <karen> ...And I think we have a w3C member from Protocols and Formats WG
15:17:02 <karen> ...to contribute in Accessibility area
15:17:06 <karen> Suzanne: great
15:17:14 <karen> Markus: Do you have others in mind?
15:17:24 <karen> Suzanne: Would be great to find someone from school systems and universities
15:17:32 <karen> ...a lot of what we want to look at has to do with education
15:17:34 <karen> ack Bill
15:17:38 <karen> Bill: I have two names
15:17:43 <mgylling> ack Bill_Kasdorf
15:17:44 <karen> ...one is Bob Mingo at Georgia State
15:17:48 <karen> ...another is @
15:17:57 <mgylling> s/Mingo/Martinengo/
15:18:00 <karen> ...Markus is AAP a member or considering?
15:18:13 <Hajar__> Hajar__ has joined #dpub
15:18:18 <karen> Karen: I'll follow up with you offline
15:18:26 <karen> Bill: university contacts may be good
15:18:29 <karen> Suzanne: thank you
15:18:33 <karen> Bill: I am on queue
15:18:42 <karen> ...mailing list is that it goes to IG members or more broadly?
15:18:49 <karen> Markus: We use the public-dpub-ig list
15:19:24 <karen> Karen: subscribers to public lists can post
15:19:55 <karen> Markus: Bill, we'll need to first look at W3C membership
15:20:04 <karen> ...since it takes time to become an IE or Member
15:20:08 <karen> ...So Daisy would be good
15:20:17 <karen> ...In terms of schools and unversities
15:21:15 <karen> Karen: I'm happy to work with offline Suzanne about current members and identification of other universities doing work in this area
15:21:19 <Hajar> Hajar has joined #dpub
15:21:37 <karen> Bill: Courfe and Vital Source
15:21:47 <karen> ...biggest distributors of higher ed books
15:21:56 <mgylling> s/Courfe/CourseSmart/
15:22:00 <karen> ...and they have significant Accessibility requirements in their platforms
15:22:08 <tzviya> CourseSmart and VitalSource (an Ingram company)
15:22:30 <karen> Markus: Continue to expand outreach
15:22:36 <karen> Suzanne: thank you
15:22:39 <karen> Markus: Jean and STM
15:22:47 <karen> Jean: Right now we have a few actual use cases out there
15:22:58 <karen> ...and area we need to pick up again
15:23:04 <karen> ...I have been doing testing across devices
15:23:11 <karen> ...we're doing a webinar Nov 5th
15:23:14 <karen> ...it will start up again
15:23:19 <karen> ...after I finish a bit of consulting
15:23:26 <karen> ...and put together more information based on testing
15:23:28 <karen> Markus: great
15:23:37 <karen> ...Do you have any thoughts about other stakeholders we should try to engage?
15:23:42 <karen> Jean: In terms of W3C members
15:24:03 <karen> ...we might want to reach out to someone at Cengage Learning
15:24:07 <karen> +1 Karen in touch
15:24:11 <karen> ...and they do a lot of..
15:24:32 <tzviya> Wiley will contribute to STM use cases
15:24:35 <karen> Jean: have not thought of anybody else
15:24:43 <karen> Bill: Springer, Elsevier?
15:24:50 <karen> Jean: Those are good choices as well
15:24:54 <karen> Bill: they are big enough
15:25:02 <karen> ...would be good candidates for W3C membership
15:25:08 <karen> Jean: Springer and Elsevier are good choices
15:25:14 <karen> ...I will have to get back to you on that
15:25:21 <karen> ...also thinking about at least one university person
15:25:35 <karen> Karen: I am happy to follow up with Jean offline as well
15:25:37 <karen> Markus: Good
15:25:46 <karen> ...Jean, it sounds like you have a plan to get going
15:25:48 <karen> Jean: yes
15:25:54 <karen> ...heads down on testing and development period
15:26:03 <karen> ...then go back to what I'm doing for W3C
15:26:09 <karen> Markus: The next major question is new task forces
15:26:18 <karen> ...What do we try to start beyond what we already have
15:26:22 <karen> ...Do we have any @
15:26:34 <karen> Tzviya: One of areas
15:26:41 <karen> ...listed is InfoGraphics
15:26:50 <karen> ...I think large images become tricky
15:26:55 <karen> ...dealing with multiple screen sizes
15:27:01 <karen> ...may be an area we want to explore
15:27:06 <Zakim> -duga
15:27:06 <karen> ...Not something I am equipped to head up
15:27:12 <karen> ...but maybe somebody else is
15:27:22 <karen> Markus: What is the abstract description of the problem?
15:27:28 <karen> ...tables are same problem
15:27:37 <karen> Tzviya: may be in area of adaptive layout
15:27:42 <karen> ...especially when they include fine detail
15:27:45 <karen> Markus: yes
15:27:45 <Zakim> +duga
15:27:47 <karen> ...that is one area
15:28:03 <karen> ...We have short exchange about fonts
15:28:08 <karen> ...and maybe starting something about that
15:28:12 <karen> ...Is Vlad on the call?
15:28:19 <karen> Vlad: yes, on call, but bad connection
15:28:36 <karen> Markus: Do you think it's a good idea to start a task force around fonts in dpublishing
15:28:41 <karen> Vlad: I would like to give it more thought
15:28:56 <karen> ...not about fonts but more about typography as a resource; how people use fonts
15:29:04 <karen> ...see if it's worthwhile to create a sub-group
15:29:16 <karen> ...or if it's done another way; good to discuss at TPAC
15:29:19 <karen> ...I will be there
15:29:28 <karen> Markus: yes, we need to understand better what you have in mind
15:29:35 <karen> ...We have a placeholder slot for this
15:29:41 <karen> ...Good to devote some time to this at TPAC
15:29:45 <karen> Vlad: good, thank you
15:29:48 <karen> Markus: What else?
15:29:57 <karen> Tzviya: We have not approached the topic of metadata at all
15:30:01 <karen> ...there is a lot of it out there
15:30:04 <karen> ...and it's all messed up
15:30:06 <karen> Markus: yes
15:30:12 <karen> ...I have talked with Ivan as well
15:30:16 <karen> ...In terms of addressing
15:30:23 <karen> ...it's an enormously complicated field
15:30:26 <Sharad> q+
15:30:45 <karen> ...It's...challenging to have just IDPF and W3C address when there are many solutions out there
15:31:00 <karen> ...Tzviya, maybe you have ideas about what to contribute
15:31:04 <karen> ack Sharad
15:31:14 <karen> Sharad: I would suggest looking at largest architecture issues
15:31:20 <karen> ...rather than what does metadata say
15:31:20 <tzviya> q+
15:31:26 <karen> ...either other aspects of HTML5 spec
15:31:35 <karen> ...that could be approved and help increase the utility of metadata
15:31:45 <karen> ...it intersects with RDF and microdata
15:31:49 <mgylling> q?
15:31:50 <karen> ...that approach I would suggest
15:32:01 <karen> ...We don't want to get into discussions with ONYX and PRISM
15:32:02 <mgylling> ack Tzviya
15:32:07 <karen> ...should be a higher level than that
15:32:13 <karen> ack Tzviya
15:32:22 <karen> Tzviya: yes, Bill said what I was going to say
15:32:35 <karen> ...more like schema project to figure out how to incorporate with RDF
15:32:43 <karen> ...I know a lot of people who would have fun with this
15:33:00 <karen> Markus: our mandate so to speak is to identify problems in the Open Web Platform
15:33:09 <karen> ...and say what it does not yet address for publishing
15:33:15 <karen> ...is it really a problem here for the OWP
15:33:31 <karen> ...is it providing all the building blocks we need to make rich vocabularies
15:33:40 <karen> Bill: not prepared to answer; but that may be the anser
15:33:46 <karen> s/anser/answer
15:33:55 <karen> Markus: that is a good approach
15:34:00 <karen> ...to find out what the answer is
15:34:08 <karen> ...Bill, would you be willing to look at it
15:34:15 <karen> ...not nec commit to lead it right away?
15:34:17 <karen> Bill: sure
15:34:25 <karen> Markus: My first suggestion is for you to talk to Ivan
15:34:31 <karen> ...who also is SemWeb lead at W3C
15:34:38 <karen> ...contact him and we can set up an offline discussion
15:34:40 <karen> Bill: ok
15:34:43 <karen> Markus: Good
15:34:50 <karen> ...Another one I was thinking about
15:35:01 <karen> ...and looking at you, Tzviya, about structural semantics
15:35:03 <karen> ...Thinking that
15:35:10 <karen> ...at the moment ePub is extending HTML in various ways
15:35:20 <karen> ..structural semantics; also name spaces being used
15:35:28 <karen> ...you will know what I'm thinking about
15:35:35 <karen> ...and that is one of the areas in this activity as a whole
15:35:42 <karen> ...is to understand what these extensions do and why
15:35:55 <karen> ...and whether OWP should provide better solutions to enable these extensions
15:36:12 <karen> ...I am looking for a task force to look at the various extensions being used out there and documenting them
15:36:14 <Bill_Kasdorf> Correction: "Sharad" above should be "Bill"
15:36:22 <karen> ...So we have documented extension use cases
15:36:26 <karen> q?
15:36:34 <karen> Markus: Structural semantics is just one
15:36:46 <karen> Tzviya: Examples like data type
15:36:52 <karen> Markus; yes and custom name spaces
15:37:09 <karen> ...all the kinds of things that various vendors do in slightly different ways
15:37:20 <karen> ...I am wondering if there is anybody who would be willing to focus on HTML content
15:37:26 <karen> ...extensions or adaption
15:37:38 <karen> ...and basically map out use cases for extentions that we have today?
15:37:48 <karen> Tzviya: I could take a stab at it
15:37:58 <karen> Markus: Thank you
15:38:03 <karen> ...Looking at the wiki page
15:38:08 <karen> ...you started structural semantics
15:38:13 <karen> ...could you genericize it
15:38:20 <karen> ...to include that and also include dictionaries
15:38:28 <karen> ...along with this
15:38:36 <karen> ...don't just limit to structural but also behavioral
15:38:37 <Hajar> I would like to contribute on  HTML content
15:38:51 <karen> ...Suggestion for now that we have a new task force with Tzviya's lead
15:38:54 <karen> ...what should we call it?
15:39:10 <JeanKaplansky> q+
15:39:30 <karen> Markus: use mailing list to comment, ask questions, make announcements so we get more traffic on the list
15:39:38 <karen> ...Any questions, Tzviya
15:39:49 <karen> Tzviya: I know there are people who interpret algorithms
15:39:54 <karen> ...does this fall into this category
15:40:09 <karen> Markus: Interpret as in what?
15:40:24 <karen> Tzviya: A new reference; rendering of book behaves in a certain way
15:40:29 <karen> Markus: Heuristics?
15:40:39 <mgylling> q?
15:40:42 <karen> ...no, I don't we think should describe these
15:40:47 <karen> ...great to see you take this on
15:40:57 <mgylling> ack JeanKaplansky
15:40:57 <karen> ack Jean
15:41:13 <karen> Jean: I was going to say...we should think of something to call it rather than Extensibility group
15:41:16 <karen> ...we have been there with XML
15:41:21 <karen> ...and we don't want any confusion
15:41:24 <karen> Markus: right
15:41:28 <karen> ...All of these things are done
15:41:34 <karen> ...because they are wanting in a declarative way
15:41:38 <karen> ...to indicate behaviors
15:41:49 <karen> ...the read about attribute to an audio element has a specific behavior
15:41:58 <karen> ...maybe call it something with behavioral adaption
15:42:02 <karen> ...is that what this is about?
15:42:05 <karen> Jean: That makes sense
15:42:09 <karen> ...we threw out heuristic
15:42:14 <karen> ...maybe call it behavioral
15:42:21 <karen> Markus: Behavioral Adaptional Content
15:42:24 <karen> ...maybe start there
15:42:27 <mgylling> ack Ruben
15:42:32 <karen> ack Ruben
15:42:35 <mgylling> q+
15:42:38 <mgylling> q-
15:42:39 <mgylling> q?
15:42:47 <Sharad> q+
15:42:59 <karen> Markus: of the task forces to kick off today
15:43:06 <karen> ...two new threads have started today
15:43:18 <karen> ...Bill is talking to Ivan about metadata and find an approach to find something there
15:43:26 <karen> ...And Tzviya is doing behavioral adpation of content
15:43:45 <karen> Markus: we have started agenda page for TPAC
15:43:48 <karen> ...Item 10
15:43:54 <karen> ...agenda email
15:44:03 <karen> ...we are talking and meeting with CSS group and parts of HTML Wg
15:44:08 <karen> ...If you go onto the agenda page
15:44:14 <karen> ...you will see preliminary meetings
15:44:25 <karen> ...Also hope to have sessions to work on use case and requirements production
15:44:29 <karen> ...We have currently listed five
15:44:34 <karen> ...Not go into deep discussion now
15:44:41 <karen> ...But request to all of you who are participating
15:44:52 <karen> ...and let us know if there is a particular topic you would like to see listed
15:44:58 <karen> ...We decided today we will talk about fonts
15:45:02 <karen> ...Vlad will be tehre
15:45:05 <karen> s/there
15:45:13 <karen> ...We are talking about Pagination with CSS WG
15:45:19 <karen> ...and work on producing requirements
15:45:28 <karen> ...your review of agenda topics and requirements is welcome
15:45:31 <karen> ...Any questions
15:45:42 <karen> ack Ruben
15:45:50 <mgylling> ack Sharad
15:46:01 <karen> Sharad: Should this group worry about anything to do with security or not?
15:46:06 <karen> Markus: yeah
15:46:10 <karen> ...it is not out of scope
15:46:17 <karen> Sharad: Should we create a group with that?
15:46:21 <karen> Markus: sure
15:46:24 <karen> ...that is certainly doable
15:46:27 <dauwhe> q+
15:46:33 <karen> ...would you be willing to lead that sub-group?
15:46:37 <karen> Sharad: yes
15:46:45 <karen> Markus: So we are listing a third new effort today
15:46:46 <mgylling> ack dauwhe
15:46:52 <karen> ...on security with lead from Sharad
15:47:00 <karen> Dave: is it content protection type ideas
15:47:06 <karen> ...be in contact with Ivan
15:47:13 <karen> ...about what @ is doing and W3C doing with EME
15:47:17 <karen> ...some talk of it that this group
15:47:25 <karen> ...might be a place to work out relationship between these things
15:47:30 <karen> ...what are needs of publishing industry
15:47:38 <karen> ...with tech that w3C is already or potentially working on
15:47:40 <karen> Markus: exactly
15:47:44 <karen> ...A good outcome
15:47:52 <karen> ...is to describe what DRM means in the case of digital publishing
15:47:59 <karen> Dave: yes, there is some confusion about
15:48:12 <karen> ...technologies that exist around books and as it relates to web platform
15:48:18 <karen> Markus: exactly
15:48:20 <karen> ...that is right
15:48:26 <karen> ...Ruben, are you here?
15:48:31 <brady_duga> q+
15:48:45 <karen> ack Brady
15:48:49 <mgylling> ack brady_duga
15:48:56 <karen> Brady: I have a question about security for users or for IPR?
15:49:03 <karen> Markus: for users or publishers?
15:49:12 <karen> Sharad: If we are to comprehend, we have to look at both
15:49:15 <karen> ...users and publishers
15:49:20 <karen> ...and sometimes devices as well
15:49:29 <karen> ...Maybe goal of sub-group is to see what has been done
15:49:35 <karen> ...and if there are limitations for publishers
15:49:42 <karen> ...or issues for users as well
15:49:44 <karen> ...Makes sense?
15:49:53 <karen> Brady: that is a good answer, thank you
15:49:59 <karen> Sharad: I am happy to talk to you
15:50:08 <karen> Markus: We need to move on
15:50:13 <mgylling> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2013Oct/0014.html
15:50:16 <karen> ...Next agenda item is a request for review of CSS Text
15:50:19 <karen> ...Posted by Bert Bos
15:50:34 <karen> ...we are hopefully going to be able to produce some comments on this from a publishing perspective
15:50:42 <karen> ...we have until Nov 7th to produce commentary
15:50:53 <karen> ...Do we have anyone here today who would like to take on review of this specification?
15:51:01 <karen> ...Somebody reviews and brings up on one of these calls
15:51:08 <karen> ...So this group can respond as a whole
15:51:13 <karen> Dave: I can probably do that
15:51:19 <karen> Jean: I can contribute to it
15:51:22 <karen> Markus: anybody else
15:51:27 <karen> @: I will take a look
15:51:33 <karen> s/@/Brady
15:51:41 <karen> Markus: Dave, Jean and Brady
15:51:45 <karen> ...Not too much time left
15:51:50 <karen> ...So ask that you complete your review
15:51:54 <karen> ...by Monday, 4 November
15:52:00 <karen> ...and we'll bring this up the agenda then
15:52:14 <karen> ...for review and we will send to Bert and CSS WG on 5th or 6th
15:52:20 <karen> ...Any more questions about Bert and CSS WG?
15:52:22 <karen> ...Great
15:52:33 <karen> ...Dave Cramer and Pagination
15:52:36 <karen> ...You told us before
15:52:49 <karen> ...You continued work in a separate HTML doc not yet publicly available
15:53:03 <karen> Dave: right, based on conversations with you and Ivan about what authoring process to use
15:53:10 <karen> Markus: using GitHub is doable
15:53:18 <karen> ...one of reasons we are doing wiki is to keep content there
15:53:24 <karen> ...we will do a report format later on
15:53:33 <karen> ...and not have a struggle for contributors
15:53:49 <karen> ...If we believe use of @ will not be a hindrance, certainly fine
15:53:59 <karen> Dave: this is a fairly complex document structurally
15:54:08 <karen> ...has numerous code examples, illustrations
15:54:11 <karen> ...things like that
15:54:13 <mgylling> s/@/Git and ReSpec/
15:54:21 <karen> ...does not seem a natural fit for a wiki environment
15:54:22 <karen> Markus: sure
15:54:37 <karen> Dave: I have never been ivolved with this kind of work at W3C so far
15:54:42 <karen> ...Ivan suggesting this
15:54:57 <karen> ...also not clear how much people are interested to author sections within this document on their own
15:55:05 <karen> ...or if I do the work to integrate contributions
15:55:07 <karen> ...things like that
15:55:18 <karen> Markus: Would this live on w3C Github account?
15:55:21 <karen> Dave: yes, I think so
15:55:26 <karen> Markus: sure
15:55:39 <karen> Dave: would need some help from Ivan getting this up and running
15:55:47 <karen> ...and set up an appropriate location
15:55:51 <karen> ...for repositories
15:56:01 <karen> Markus: do we have any objections to moving this document to GitHub?
15:56:12 <karen> ...I suggest you contact Ivan and you get going
15:56:20 <karen> ...This is same approach we will take for the wiki eventually
15:56:28 <karen> ...do that switch at the right point in time
15:56:30 <karen> ...which is not now
15:56:39 <karen> Dave: I'll be the guinea pig for this now
15:56:48 <karen> Markus: Anything else you want to discuss today?
15:56:54 <karen> Dave: not at the moment
15:57:06 <karen> Markus: Suzanne, on Accessibility, anything to bring up today?
15:57:10 <karen> Suzanne: not today
15:57:15 <karen> ...I am putting some categories up
15:57:18 <karen> ...and fill in use cases
15:57:30 <karen> ...and hoping it will recruit more people and spart interest
15:57:35 <karen> Markus: sounds like a great plan
15:57:40 <karen> ...we have a couple minutes left
15:57:46 <karen> ...Has there been any activity on the wiki
15:57:59 <karen> Tzviya: I added a use case
15:58:06 <karen> Markus: what does it say?
15:58:19 <karen> Tzviya: table data needs to be legible at different screen sizes
15:58:26 <karen> Markus: right, under pagination and styling
15:58:35 <karen> ...this is the spirit of the image problem you mentioned earlier
15:58:40 <karen> Tzviya: exactly
15:58:47 <karen> Markus: great
15:58:54 <karen> Bill: if nothing more...a question
15:59:05 <karen> ...Am I right that the use cases will not be used for proposed solutions
15:59:11 <karen> ...describes a problem, right?
15:59:20 <karen> Markus: correct; we are just describing problems
15:59:25 <karen> ...not finding solutions
15:59:38 <karen> Bill: collapsing rows and columns is in category of a proposed solution?
15:59:48 <karen> Markus: also case we are only putting time into describing things that are problems
15:59:57 <karen> ...If we have use cases already covered by OWP
15:59:59 <karen> ...they are out
16:00:07 <karen> ...We are not spending time to describe things that are solved
16:00:14 <karen> ...problem is in the ereader landscape
16:00:25 <karen> ...whether OWP needs to accommodate tables better
16:00:36 <karen> Tzviya: As screens get smaller, I think it's a problem on all platforms
16:00:43 <karen> ...seeing it more in books than on web pages
16:00:59 <karen> Markus: perhaps you can elaborate more on the specifics of the problem
16:01:09 <karen> ...so people will understand better than this is seriously annoying
16:01:16 <karen> Bill: and broadening the IG
16:01:22 <karen> ...beyond book publishing
16:01:30 <karen> ...journals are commonly online and it's a huge problem
16:01:32 <karen> ...for journals
16:01:47 <karen> ...people want to look at HTML journal content on various screen sizes so it's not just a book issue
16:01:50 <karen> Markus: we are over time
16:01:54 <karen> ...thank you for today
16:01:57 <karen> ...Any further comments?
16:02:10 <karen> @: I have a question
16:02:18 <karen> ...related to HTML5 and JS in epub
16:02:24 <karen> ...have we mentioned this kind of problem
16:02:29 <karen> ...or refer to this problem in the IG
16:02:37 <karen> Markus: if it's an epub problem, it's not for this IG
16:02:42 <karen> ...if it's HTML5..
16:02:48 <karen> @: a widget in an ebook?
16:03:06 <dauwhe> s/@/Hajar/
16:03:06 <karen> Markus: if it's a problem with W3C technologies or a problem with ePub, not to be discussed here but at IDPF
16:03:22 <karen> Harjar: ebooks readers?
16:03:29 <karen> ...sometimes...visiblity
16:03:33 <Zakim> -Sharad_Garg
16:03:36 <karen> ...which can be related to W3C?
16:03:42 <karen> Markus: then yes, if related to W3C
16:03:49 <karen> Hajar: I contributed HTML content
16:03:51 <karen> Markus: great
16:04:05 <karen> ...Hajar will contribute to Tzviya's effort
16:04:08 <karen> ...any other questions
16:04:25 <karen> Suzanne: Is the MathML task force going to have a Pearson representative?
16:04:32 <karen> Jean: happy to have all contributors, that would be great
16:04:36 <karen> Markus: Any more questions
16:04:40 <karen> ...talk to you again next week
16:04:47 <karen> ...and increasingly on the list as well
16:04:50 <karen> ...thank you everyone
16:04:50 <Zakim> -duga
16:04:52 <Zakim> -mgylling
16:04:54 <Zakim> -BillKasdorf
16:04:54 <Zakim> -dauwhe
16:04:55 <Zakim> -Ruben
16:04:55 <Zakim> -Tzviya
16:04:56 <karen> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:04:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/21-dpub-minutes.html karen
16:04:56 <Zakim> -Vlad
16:04:56 <Zakim> -Suzanne_Taylor
16:04:57 <Zakim> -JeanKaplansky
16:04:58 <Zakim> -Bert
16:05:00 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers
16:05:02 <Zakim> -plinss
16:05:03 <Zakim> SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM has ended
16:05:03 <Zakim> Attendees were dauwhe, Ruben, mgylling, Tzviya, duga, Vlad, Karen_Myers, JeanKaplansky, BillKasdorf, Bert, plinss, Suzanne_Taylor, Sharad_Garg
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