16:43:45 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:43:45 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-irc 16:43:47 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:43:47 Zakim has joined #ua 16:43:49 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:43:49 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 17 minutes 16:43:50 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:43:50 Date: 17 October 2013 16:43:52 rrsagent, set logs public 16:44:06 rrsagent, make minutes 16:44:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-minutes.html allanj 16:50:17 agenda+ finish survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results 16:50:50 agenda+ finish survey #2 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131016/results 16:52:04 kford has joined #ua 16:58:07 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 16:58:09 +Kelly_Ford 16:58:40 +Jim_Allan 16:58:41 -Jim_Allan 16:58:43 +Jim_Allan 17:01:21 Greg has joined #ua 17:02:03 +Greg_Lowney 17:03:03 regrets: Eric, Kim 17:03:52 Jan has joined #ua 17:04:18 zakim, code? 17:04:18 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan 17:04:30 +??P3 17:04:45 zakim, ??P3 is really Jan 17:04:45 +Jan; got it 17:05:46 zakim, who's here? 17:05:46 On the phone I see Kelly_Ford, Jim_Allan, Greg_Lowney, Jan 17:05:47 On IRC I see Jan, Greg, kford, Zakim, RRSAgent, allanj, trackbot 17:06:51 allanj_ has joined #ua 17:07:03 +Jeanne 17:07:51 zakim, agenda? 17:07:51 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda: 17:07:52 1. finish survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results [from allanj] 17:07:52 2. finish survey #2 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131016/results [from allanj] 17:08:04 scribe: allanj 17:08:30 chair: KellyFord and JimAllan 17:09:05 zakim, open item 1 17:09:05 agendum 1. "finish survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results" taken up [from allanj] 17:10:41 jeanne has joined #ua 17:10:52 topic: q11 1.8.7 17:10:56 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq13 17:13:10 topic: Q10 1.4.6 17:13:14 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq12 17:14:38 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20131017/#sc_146 17:15:08 Capitalization (apply all uppercase or all lowercase styles, and override upper case or small caps styles) ? 17:15:30 Text in the document now: 17:15:31 1.4.6 Line Text Spacing, Capitalization and Hyphenation (Globally): The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AAA) 17:15:33 Line spacing between 0.7 and 3.0 times the font height, at increments of 0.10 17:15:34 Capitalization (overriding upper case and small caps style) 17:15:36 Hyphenation 17:15:37 Margins 17:15:39 Borders 17:16:26 Note: This success criteria does not apply to text entered as ALL CAPS. Content authors are encouraged to use styles instead of typing text as ALL CAPS. 17:18:50 allanj_ has joined #ua 17:19:11 gl: not sure about Hypenation... 17:19:26 js: should be turning off automated hypenation 17:19:53 ... not turning off author supplied hyphenation 17:20:10 gl: PDF may be an issue. 17:20:55 js: auto-hypenation for reflow vs author hypyhens in hyphenation 17:21:30 http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-css-text-3-20131010/#word-break-property 17:21:42 js: auto-hyphenation in text reflow 17:21:53 It wasn't clear to me whether it meant a mode where the user agent didn't break even at soft hyphen characters (­). 17:23:02 change to 'word-breaking' (auto-hyphenation) 17:23:09 Word-breaking properties (auto-hyphenation) 17:24:17 Resolution: accept 1.4.6 as 17:24:31 1.4.6 Line Text Spacing, Capitalization and Hyphenation (Globally): 17:24:33 The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AAA) 17:24:34 Line spacing between 0.7 and 3.0 times the font height, at increments of 0.10 17:24:36 Capitalization (overriding upper case and small caps style) 17:24:37 Word-breaking properties (auto-hyphenation) 17:24:39 Margins 17:24:40 Borders 17:24:42 Note: This success criteria does not apply to text entered as ALL CAPS. Content authors are encouraged to use styles instead of typing text as ALL CAPS. 17:25:19 The title lists 3 of the 5 bullet items. 17:26:04 js: change stem to 'Spacing, Capitalization, and Hyphenation; 17:26:30 topic: q11 1.8.7 17:26:43 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq13 17:29:03 We're already change the document to newer text than was in the survey, so some responses are obsolete. 17:30:00 s/We're/We have/ 17:30:06 s/change/changed/ 17:31:41 Discussion of whether this should apply to all viewports, or just top-level viewports. 17:32:59 Agreed to change to "top-level viewports". 17:35:07 gl: need to change IER 17:35:45 js: leave unstated as to a global setting or specific viewports...leave it to the developer 17:35:52 Greg: We can leave it unstated, thus by default user agent can implement as per-viewport or global option. We can clarify that in IER e.g. by having examples of both implementations. 17:36:13 s/js: leave/jr: leave 17:37:15 proposed: 17:37:19 1.8.7 Reflow Text : The user can specify that text content in a graphical top-level viewport reflows so the text forms a single column that fits within the width of the viewport. (Level A) 17:37:21 Note 1: Reflow applies to rescaled or zoomed text. 17:37:22 Note 2: For vertical layout languages, text should fit within the height of the viewport to reduce vertical scrolling. 17:39:01 From my mail last night: 8. Similarly, 1.8.7 (Reflow Text) Note 2 also could be taken as adding a requirement rather than replacing one. It might be less ambiguous if changed to something like "For vertical layout languages, text should fit within the height of the viewport, rather than its width, to reduce vertical scrolling." 17:39:58 jr: most vertical language texts have switched to horizontal layout for technology. vertical layout on screen is more of an edge case 17:40:08 "Vertical layout text should fit within the height of the viewport, rather than its width, to reduce vertical scrolling." 17:40:52 jr: css flow direction 17:41:46 ... css uses vertical text 17:42:08 js: vertical text means something else in common usage 17:42:32 ... talked to i18n group about vertical text. 17:42:54 ... should keep it in but put in note 17:43:24 jr: leave it in. 17:45:06 http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-writing-modes/#intro-text-layout 17:45:20 Or maybe "Vertical layout text (e.g. Mongolian, traditional Chinese) should fit within the height of the viewport, rather than its width, to reduce vertical scrolling." 17:45:56 For vertical layout languages (e.g. Mongolian, Han) text should fit within the height of the viewport, rather than its width, to reduce vertical scrolling. 17:50:01 1.8.7 Reflow Text : The user can specify that text content in a graphical top-level viewport reflows so the text forms a single column that fits within the width of the viewport. (Level A) 17:50:02 Note 1: Reflow applies to rescaled or zoomed text. 17:50:04 Note 2: For vertical layout languages (e.g. Mongolian, Han) text should fit within the height of the viewport, rather than its width, to reduce vertical scrolling. 17:50:52 I am a bit worried about cases where the author specifies vertical layout for a horizontal-layout language (e.g. theatre marquis); in that case ideally the user agent option to reduce scrolling should reflow as if it were a vertical language. However, this is a minor edge case. 17:52:22 Perm my email of last night, the Note could be misinterpreted as saying it applies only to rescaled or zoomed text, so it might be clearer as "Reflow applies even to rescaled or zoomed text", or "Reflow applies even when text is rescaled or zoomed." 17:52:30 s/Perm/Per/ 17:53:23 Agreement to adopt "Reflow applies even when text is rescaled or zoomed." 17:53:38 action: jeanne to add 1.8.7 Reflow Text : The user can specify that text content in a graphical top-level viewport reflows so the text forms a single column that fits within the width of the viewport. (Level A) 17:53:38 Created ACTION-908 - Add 1.8.7 reflow text : the user can specify that text content in a graphical top-level viewport reflows so the text forms a single column that fits within the width of the viewport. (level a) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-24]. 17:53:39 Note 1: Reflow applies even when text is rescaled or zoomed. 17:53:41 Note 2: For vertical layout languages (e.g. Mongolian, Han) text should fit within the height of the viewport, rather than its width, to reduce vertical scrolling. 17:53:42 **check to ensure we met all of SH changes 17:54:13 topic: Q12 1.8.7.and 1.8.9 IER changes 17:54:22 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq14 17:55:57 action: Jeanne to review comments on https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq14 to rewrite IERs 17:55:57 Created ACTION-909 - Review comments on https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq14 to rewrite iers [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-24]. 17:56:30 topic: New 2.10 Annimation 17:56:37 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq15 17:57:00 s/Annimation/Animation 17:59:34 I prefer A but could live with demoting it to AA if that's the group decision. 17:59:41 jr: animation is a matter of scale. does one small animation fail ... 18:00:15 jr, ja, kf, js +1 18:00:52 recognized? 18:03:05 action: jeanne to add https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq14 as AA to the document 18:03:05 Created ACTION-910 - Add https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq14 as aa to the document [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-24]. 18:05:55 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#time-limits 18:06:36 jr: reviews WCAG 18:07:04 ... platform vs web-based browsers 18:09:39 allanj has left #ua 18:09:44 2.2.2 Pause, Stop, Hide: For moving, blinking, scrolling, or auto-updating information, all of the following are true: (Level A)... 18:10:00 allanj has joined #ua 18:10:22 jr: Should be "A" if wording parallel to WCAG 2.2.2 18:10:33 -Kelly_Ford 18:10:46 Greg will look at rewording. 18:10:52 rrsagent, make minutes 18:10:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:11:45 close action-910 18:11:45 Closed action-910. 18:11:57 zakim, agenda? 18:11:57 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda: 18:11:58 1. finish survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results [from allanj] 18:11:58 2. finish survey #2 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131016/results [from allanj] 18:12:08 zakim, close item 1 18:12:08 agendum 1, finish survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results, closed 18:12:10 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 18:12:10 2. finish survey #2 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131016/results [from allanj] 18:12:18 zakim, open item 2 18:12:18 agendum 2. "finish survey #2 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131016/results" taken up [from allanj] 18:12:59 topic: Q1 1.4 notes 18:13:08 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131016/results#xq2 18:18:21 discussion of notes 18:18:56 note 1 could be in the summary. 18:19:16 gl: could add to each SC as necessary 18:19:46 js: likes suggestion to make a definition 18:20:38 gl: definition of 'set' 18:21:08 jr: definition of 'set text characteristics' 18:22:25 ja: any change the user make should overide author/browser setting 18:24:11 Action : JR to propose a definition of "Text Customization, Set Text Characteristics" that might be able to bundle the proposed Guideline 1.4 notes 18:24:11 Created ACTION-911 - Propose a definition of "text customization, set text characteristics" that might be able to bundle the proposed guideline 1.4 notes [on Jan Richards - due 2013-10-24]. 18:24:40 topic: Q2 1.4.1, 1.4.2 Text Scale 18:25:03 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131016/results#xq3 18:28:38 gl: I find the concept of "font size" to be confusing in this guideline, as to when it means a specific size (e.g. 16 pt), when it means a factor applied to some base size (e.g. "large" and "larger" in CSS), and how these relate to a zoom or scaling factor applied to a viewport (e.g. a command to double the size of all on-screen rendering without affecting the size properties of the... 18:28:39 ...elements). For example, do we feel a global zoom feature should satisfy the first bullet of 1.4.1? If not, can that interpretation be justified by the current wording? 18:29:38 ... current UA can't set zoom for all pages. so that's not global 18:30:05 js: ok with scale instead of size 18:32:46 gl: 1.4.2 take precedence over 1.4.1 18:33:23 add "Note: characteristics set for individual text elements types (1.4.2) should override settings affecting all text content (1.4.1)." 18:35:19 "installed fonts" 18:37:53 -Jan 18:38:50 1.4.1 Text Scale, Color, Font (Globally): The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content: (Level A) 18:38:52 * Text scale with preserved size distinctions (e.g. keeping headings proportional to main font) 18:38:53 * Text color and background color, choosing from all platform color options 18:38:55 * Font family, choosing from all installed fonts 18:38:56 1.4.2 Text Scale, Color and Font (by Element): The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for text element types including at least headings and input fields:(Level AA) 18:38:58 * Text Scale 18:38:59 * Text color and background color, choosing from all platform color options 18:39:01 * Font family, choosing from all installed fonts 18:40:25 Note: characteristics set for individual text elements types (1.4.2) should override settings affecting all text content (1.4.1). 18:42:25 1.4.2 Text Size, Color and Font (by Element): The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for text element types including at least headings and input fields:(Level AA) 18:42:43 * Text Size or Scale 18:43:56 action: jeanne to add the text above for 1.4.1 and last iteration of 1.4.2 in the document 18:43:57 Created ACTION-912 - Add the text above for 1.4.1 and last iteration of 1.4.2 in the document [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-24]. 18:44:27 rrsagent, make minutes 18:44:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:44:35 -Jim_Allan 18:45:06 zakim, who is here? 18:45:06 On the phone I see Greg_Lowney, Jeanne 18:45:08 On IRC I see allanj, jeanne, Jan, Greg, kford, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot 18:46:56 zakim, please part 18:46:56 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Kelly_Ford, Jim_Allan, Greg_Lowney, Jan, Jeanne 18:46:56 Zakim has left #ua 19:21:25 rrsagent, please part 19:21:25 I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-actions.rdf : 19:21:25 ACTION: jeanne to add 1.8.7 Reflow Text : The user can specify that text content in a graphical top-level viewport reflows so the text forms a single column that fits within the width of the viewport. (Level A) [1] 19:21:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-irc#T17-53-38 19:21:25 ACTION: Jeanne to review comments on https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq14 to rewrite IERs [2] 19:21:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-irc#T17-55-57 19:21:25 ACTION: jeanne to add https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq14 as AA to the document [3] 19:21:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-irc#T18-03-05 19:21:25 ACTION: JR to propose a definition of "Text Customization, Set Text Characteristics" that might be able to bundle the proposed Guideline 1.4 notes [4] 19:21:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-irc#T18-24-11 19:21:25 ACTION: jeanne to add the text above for 1.4.1 and last iteration of 1.4.2 in the document [5] 19:21:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-ua-irc#T18-43-56