12:26:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #gld
12:26:09 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-gld-irc
12:26:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
12:26:11 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #gld
12:26:13 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GLD
12:26:13 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
12:26:14 <trackbot> Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference
12:26:14 <trackbot> Date: 17 October 2013
13:19:27 <TallTed> TallTed has joined #gld
13:49:29 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #gld
13:57:39 <atemezin> atemezin has joined #gld
13:59:10 <olyerickson> olyerickson has joined #gld
13:59:46 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> JoaoPauloAlmeida has joined #gld
14:00:38 <bhyland> bhyland has joined #gld
14:00:58 <PhilA> PhilA has joined #gld
14:00:59 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman has joined #gld
14:01:03 <olyerickson> zakim, [ipcaller] is me.
14:01:04 <Zakim> sorry, olyerickson, I do not recognize a party named '[ipcaller]'
14:01:13 <PhilA> zakim, code?
14:01:13 <Zakim> sorry, PhilA, I don't know what conference this is
14:01:16 <olyerickson> zakim: harumph...
14:01:21 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, this is gld
14:01:21 <Zakim> ok, HadleyBeeman; that matches T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM
14:01:22 <PhilA> zakim, this is GLD
14:01:22 <Zakim> PhilA, this was already T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM
14:01:23 <Zakim> ok, PhilA; that matches T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM
14:01:27 <PhilA> zakim, code?
14:01:27 <Zakim> the conference code is 45394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA
14:01:36 <atemezin> zakim,who is here?
14:01:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, [IPcaller], +1.617.646.aaaa
14:01:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see HadleyBeeman, PhilA, bhyland, JoaoPauloAlmeida, olyerickson, atemezin, DaveReynolds, TallTed, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot, sandro
14:01:53 <Zakim> +??P27
14:02:07 <Zakim> +??P24
14:02:15 <PhilA> zakim, ipcaller is olyerickson
14:02:19 <Zakim> +olyerickson; got it
14:02:20 <Zakim> +HadleyBeeman
14:02:29 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
14:02:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, olyerickson, +1.617.646.aaaa, ??P27, ??P24, HadleyBeeman
14:02:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see HadleyBeeman, PhilA, bhyland, JoaoPauloAlmeida, olyerickson, atemezin, DaveReynolds, TallTed, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot, sandro
14:02:37 <PhilA> zakim, P24 is me
14:02:38 <Zakim> sorry, PhilA, I do not recognize a party named 'P24'
14:02:42 <Zakim> +bhyland
14:02:43 <PhilA> zakim, ??P24 is me
14:02:44 <Zakim> +PhilA; got it
14:03:00 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:03:25 <HadleyBeeman> Agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20131017
14:03:27 <PhilA> meeting: GLD 17 October 2013
14:03:32 <DaveReynolds> ack ??P27
14:03:33 <olyerickson> +1 to fadi-by-proxy
14:03:47 <atemezin> me Hi Dave...Can report this application http://semantics.eurecom.fr/datalift/PerfectSchool/ consuming cube vocab for the implementation report?
14:03:49 <PhilA> PhilA has changed the topic to: GLD 17 October 2013
14:03:56 <PhilA> chair: HadleyBeeman
14:03:57 <bhyland> chair: HadleyBeeman
14:04:02 <bhyland> scribe: bhyland
14:04:03 <Deirdrelee> Deirdrelee has joined #gld
14:04:20 <DaveReynolds> Hi, sure send a report to the list and I'll a link to the page
14:04:23 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
14:04:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, olyerickson, +1.617.646.aaaa, DaveReynolds, PhilA, HadleyBeeman, bhyland, [IPcaller]
14:04:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see Deirdrelee, HadleyBeeman, PhilA, bhyland, JoaoPauloAlmeida, olyerickson, atemezin, DaveReynolds, TallTed, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot, sandro
14:04:40 <atemezin> Ok. Thanks Dave!
14:05:06 <Deirdrelee> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:05:06 <Zakim> +Deirdrelee; got it
14:05:33 <PhilA> zakim, aaaa is Sumit
14:05:33 <Zakim> +Sumit; got it
14:05:36 <Zakim> +??P40
14:05:46 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> ??P40 is me
14:05:52 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, ??P40 is me
14:05:52 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it
14:06:02 <PhilA> PhilA: Apologises in advance for almost certainly misspelling the Pacific NW
14:06:05 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?
14:06:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, olyerickson, Sumit, DaveReynolds, PhilA, HadleyBeeman, bhyland, Deirdrelee, JoaoPauloAlmeida
14:06:22 <Zakim> + +33.4.93.00.aabb
14:07:23 <HadleyBeeman> http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/gld/2013-08-01
14:08:08 <bhyland> There appear to be a missing set of meetings for http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/gld/2013-08-15
14:08:18 <atemezin> http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/gld/
14:08:49 <bhyland> OK, the minutes are there but not linked to in the main wiki
14:08:54 <DaveReynolds> +1 to accept minutes
14:08:59 <bhyland> (I'll fix later)
14:09:02 <atemezin> +1
14:09:04 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> +1
14:09:04 <olyerickson> +1 to minuts
14:09:29 <bhyland> Accepted minutes from 20130815
14:10:24 <bhyland> q+
14:10:29 <olyerickson> Q+
14:11:25 <bhyland> Topic: DCAT status
14:11:29 <bhyland> Fadi Maali <fadi.maali@deri.org>
14:11:29 <bhyland> Resent-From: W3C public GLD WG WG <public-gld-wg@w3.org>
14:11:29 <bhyland> To: Public GLD WG <public-gld-wg@w3.org>
14:11:29 <bhyland> Cc: Deirdre Lee <deirdre.lee@deri.org>, Makx Dekkers <makx@makxdekkers.com>, Phil Archer <phila@w3.org>, Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org>and cc
14:11:30 <bhyland> status of DCAT
14:11:44 <PhilA> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-wg/2013Oct/0004.html Fadi's mail
14:11:45 <sumit> sumit has joined #gld
14:12:12 <olyerickson> q+
14:12:20 <olyerickson> q+++
14:13:21 <PhilA> See for example http://schema.org/DataCatalog
14:13:55 <bhyland> bhyland: Given the importance & visibility of DCAT in the overall open data community, I personally would like to see it ushered through and have some ideas for how to give some support to Fadi IF he is still willing to be the main facilitator.
14:14:08 <DaveReynolds> q+
14:14:27 <DaveReynolds> q-
14:14:27 <PhilA> q- olyerickson
14:14:37 <olyerickson> q- ++
14:14:45 <bhyland> olyerickson: What type of documentation do we require from users of DCAT (Woods Hole, EU organizations, etc) to demonstrate implementation of the proposed document.
14:14:48 <bhyland> ack bhyland
14:15:31 <bhyland> Sandro: The W3C requirements are pretty flexible. We can take an email from the organization that confirms they've read the spec, they are using the following terms, they conform to the spec.
14:15:50 <bhyland> … If there are terms that no one is using, it is questionable as to whether they should remain in the spec.
14:16:34 <bhyland> olyerickson: Yes, that process/approach makes sense. Remaining issue is complete coverage because DCAT anticipates a broader set of terms than a given LD publisher is likely to use.
14:17:02 <bhyland> Sandro: any given publisher doesn't need to use all terms, just coverage overall between the implementors.
14:17:06 <HadleyBeeman> q+ to talk about what "official" means
14:17:10 <PhilA> q?
14:17:49 <bhyland> Sandro: I think we can ignore test harness for a vocabulary publisher … it is not clear how to do that.  In general, we haven't done this for vocabs & I don't think we need to.
14:18:24 <DaveReynolds> Well that's not entirely the case c.f. ORG and Data Cube :)
14:18:37 <bhyland> olyerickson: We're showing data set implementers using a by-way-of-example approach but it is difficult to do this for a vocabulary ...
14:19:18 <bhyland> … International Open Government Data Catalog is meant to be a 90% overlap of DCAT but the vocab terms are not pure DCAT ...
14:19:24 <PhilA> q+ to talk about mappings
14:20:02 <bhyland> … We could claim we have a catalog with terms that are mostly DCAT, but we don't have the staffing resources currently (not before end of November 2013), to complete that effort.
14:20:51 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida
14:21:00 <HadleyBeeman> ack phil
14:21:00 <Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to talk about mappings
14:21:03 <olyerickson> Zakim, mute me.
14:21:03 <Zakim> olyerickson should now be muted
14:21:07 <Zakim> +??P40
14:21:12 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, ??P40 is me
14:21:12 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it
14:21:14 <PhilA> mappings http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/Datasets
14:21:16 <bhyland> … Our implementation of DCAT isn't complete.  By way of complete implementation, see the Woods Hole implementation.  For those not familiar with who Woods Hole is, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woods_Hole_Oceanographic_Institution
14:23:04 <bhyland> PhilA: Raised concerned that terms DCAT, ADMS changes happened after the terms had been incorporated in to Schema.org.
14:23:46 <bhyland> PhilA: Agreed to take an Action to communicate with Schema.org facilitators to ask them to update....
14:24:24 <bhyland> Action: PhilA will communicate with Schema.org facilitators & ask them to update terms from DCAT & ADMS.
14:24:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-149 - Will communicate with schema.org facilitators & ask them to update terms from dcat & adms. [on Phil Archer - due 2013-10-24].
14:24:53 <olyerickson> im muted
14:25:03 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> We are in a huge mess with respect to vocabulary adoption/reuse
14:25:05 <bhyland> … Discussion ensued about Schema.org's willingness to update Schema.org based on changes made by W3 working group(s).
14:25:09 <olyerickson> zakim, unmute me.
14:25:09 <Zakim> olyerickson should no longer be muted
14:25:20 <olyerickson> q+
14:25:29 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> This schema.org usage is only one small example...
14:25:44 <olyerickson> Q+
14:25:48 <olyerickson> Q+
14:25:54 <olyerickson> Q+
14:25:57 <bhyland> PhilA: Hasn't personally come across people who said they are implemented one vocab over another, specifically Schema.org vs. DCAT
14:26:08 <bhyland> ack olyerickson
14:26:20 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> This is not the first time we had discussed this. We ourselves (in ORG) depend on FOAF (which has a broken versioning scheme).
14:27:05 <bhyland> olyerickson: People are asking about DCAT & how to surface their metadata on the Web.  RPI teaches people about both Schema.org which has "good brand" coverage, as well as RDFa ...
14:27:10 <PhilA> q+ to raise a completely different issue about schema.org cf. DCAT
14:28:32 <bhyland> q+
14:31:02 <HadleyBeeman> ack phil
14:31:02 <Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to raise a completely different issue about schema.org cf. DCAT
14:31:23 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> good comment by bhyland
14:32:01 <bhyland> PhilA: Per discussion with EC, questions were raised by someone why the W3C is working with Schema.org because it is a proprietary vocab not developed in an open, peer reviewed process.
14:32:22 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> we have used FOAF, which is not open
14:32:53 <bhyland> … Because Schema.org hasn't been done in open peer reviewed forum, it is tough to make recommendation to government authorities to use it.
14:33:11 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> best practices should clarify issues of vocab reuse, versioning (evolution) and openness
14:33:16 <HadleyBeeman> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_Timetable
14:33:30 <PhilA> JoaoPauloAlmeida -  I think FOAF is more open than schema.org. All decisions are taken in public by its community cf. behind closed doors for schema.org
14:33:56 <bhyland> Hadley: We still have quite a bit of (W3) process to get DCAT across the finish line in the remaining 2 months.
14:35:20 <bhyland> Hadley: Asked whether we have the resources within the GLD WG to engage in CR effort … Alternatively, we publish a WG Note.
14:35:27 <bhyland> zakim, who is talking?
14:35:37 <Zakim> bhyland, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +33.4.93.00.aabb (14%)
14:35:41 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> This group needs to write about these fundamental issues. Vocabularies are only useful if they are reused, and if they can evolve (even when they are already being used), … is this something that can be raised in the follow up efforts of the Data Activity
14:35:48 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> ?
14:35:49 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, mute aabb
14:35:49 <Zakim> +33.4.93.00.aabb should now be muted
14:36:04 <bhyland> Sandro: We need to consider whether there is a benefit to DCAT being a Recommendation or a WG Note.
14:36:30 <bhyland> … Boils down to level of effort required + time available + value derived from the effort.
14:36:31 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida
14:36:38 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?
14:36:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, olyerickson, Sumit, DaveReynolds, PhilA, HadleyBeeman, bhyland, Deirdrelee, +33.4.93.00.aabb (muted)
14:36:42 <Zakim> +??P10
14:36:48 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, ??P10 is me
14:36:48 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it
14:37:12 <HadleyBeeman> q?
14:37:14 <HadleyBeeman> ack me
14:37:14 <Zakim> HadleyBeeman, you wanted to talk about what "official" means
14:37:21 <HadleyBeeman> ack bhy
14:38:11 <DaveReynolds> q+
14:38:18 <bhyland> bhyland: Asked whether European LD publishers (with whom PhilA works fairly closely), whether they distinguish between a WG Note vs a Recommendation.
14:38:44 <bhyland> … They simply want to know it is stable & not being mucked around with … terms aren't being changed out from beneath them.
14:39:11 <bhyland> … If the Data on the Web WG wants to add terms, then they have freedom to do so.
14:39:27 <olyerickson> +1 to some W3C status that signifies stability. "Note" apparently achieves that, "Recommendation" prolly stronger than "Note"
14:39:28 <HadleyBeeman> …. by adding a separate note
14:39:37 <HadleyBeeman> q?
14:39:43 <bhyland> … Stability is the most important issue.  They want the technology to remain stable.
14:39:56 <bhyland> … the existing terms remain in effect.
14:40:32 <DaveReynolds> ack em
14:40:36 <bhyland> Sandro:  There *may* be editorial changes in subsequent documents that add clarity (reduce ambiguity).
14:40:39 <HadleyBeeman> ack dave
14:41:11 <bhyland> DaveReynolds: I'm not working with people trying to use DCAT at the moment. But in the UK, there is commitment to working with open Web standards.
14:41:25 <bhyland> … There is a cost to doing a WG Note vs. a Recommendation
14:42:37 <olyerickson> I will ask whether "recommendation" status makes a difference to e.g. WHOI
14:42:40 <HadleyBeeman> q+
14:42:54 <bhyland> q+
14:42:58 <olyerickson> I'll also ask my friends in Data.gov
14:42:58 <bhyland> ack Had
14:43:21 <bhyland> HadleyBeeman: Working on UK Government Open Standards
14:43:45 <bhyland> … It includes language around "due process" for open web standards that are adopted.
14:44:17 <bhyland> … Practically on the ground, I doubt that there would be a lot of push back if there were a stable Working Group Note vs. Recommendation.
14:44:37 <Deirdrelee> q+
14:45:03 <HadleyBeeman> ack bhyland
14:46:25 <HadleyBeeman> UK gov definition of open standard is in here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/78892/Open-Standards-Principles-FINAL.pdf
14:47:00 <bhyland> … Back to Sandro's point … do we have the resources within 2 mos & is success is possible & do we get sufficient value from that hard work?
14:48:18 <bhyland> Deirdre: If DERI & RPI could each supply an implementation that conforms, independentally developed, would that be sufficient?
14:48:22 <bhyland> Sandro: Yes.
14:49:06 <bhyland> HadleyBeeman: Provided a summary:we need a final resourcing discussion with Fadi.
14:49:50 <olyerickson> RPI will solicit a statement of implementation (or intent to implement) DCAT from e.g. WHOI. Hopefully they will agree...
14:50:48 <bhyland> Sandro: We need the following by Thur Oct 24-Oct: 1) Documented WG Resolution to proceed; 2) Documentation ready for publication as CR (from LC); 3) Transition request emailed to W3C mgmt & chairs.
14:52:09 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida
14:52:23 <Zakim> +??P10
14:52:30 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> Zakim, ??P10 is me
14:52:30 <Zakim> +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it
14:52:44 <Deirdrelee> q+
14:53:58 <DaveReynolds> Presumably also a question of availability - if Fadi is off to ISWC then prepare docs by next Thursday may be hard
14:54:01 <PhilA> ack Deirdrelee
14:54:17 <atemezin> atemezin has joined #gld
14:54:17 <bhyland> Action: HadleyBeeman, bhyland - Solicit commitment from WG participants & reach out beyond, to determine that there is support for Fadi who does want to see DCAT move through the Rec Track process.
14:54:17 <trackbot> Error finding 'HadleyBeeman,'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/users>.
14:55:08 <bhyland> Deirdre: Appreciate that Fadi wants to see this move forward, and from DERI's side, we'd like to see it move forward to Rec track.  She couldn't commit on behalf of DERI but expressed that it is very important to DERI.
14:55:35 <bhyland> Action: Deirdre to raise with DERI management to lend support & needed resources to move DCAT through Rec Track process.
14:55:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-150 - Raise with deri management to lend support & needed resources to move dcat through rec track process. [on Deirdre Lee - due 2013-10-24].
14:56:05 <atemezin> +1 to see DCAT going to Rec
14:56:30 <Deirdrelee> I have to go....I'll follow up on mailing list
14:56:32 <bhyland> Topic: ORG update
14:56:40 <Zakim> -Deirdrelee
14:56:58 <bhyland> DaveReynolds: Cannot have sufficient status discussion in 2 minutes remaining.
14:57:28 <PhilA> q+ to give a little bit of good news
14:57:49 <bhyland> DaveReynolds: It has been tough to get implementation reports. We have one formal report Cube.
14:58:42 <bhyland> We have one report for ORG that was somewhat loose.  We need to encourage implementation reports, conformance checks & rigor.
14:58:51 <bhyland> Hadley: Is it doable in the time remaining?
14:59:55 <bhyland> DaveReynolds: For Cube, I think it is doable. We can get evidence of conformance.  For ORG, I'm more worried. We might need to consider taking ORG to WG Note....
15:00:40 <PhilA> scribe: PhilA
15:00:43 <bhyland> ta!
15:00:48 <Zakim> -bhyland
15:00:55 <PhilA> sandro: Asks about Soton's use of QB
15:01:04 <Zakim> -olyerickson
15:01:05 <olyerickson> olyerickson has left #gld
15:01:15 <PhilA> DaveReynolds: No
15:01:25 <PhilA> sandro: OK, they've used it. Need to chase it
15:03:22 <PhilA> PhilA: I have some info from Italy. No usage of more terms I'm afraid. But I have Italian translations of the labels and comments
15:03:37 <atemezin> Thanks all!
15:03:45 <JoaoPauloAlmeida> bye
15:03:45 <Zakim> - +33.4.93.00.aabb
15:03:47 <Zakim> -PhilA
15:03:49 <sumit> Thanks All
15:03:51 <Zakim> -HadleyBeeman
15:03:53 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds
15:03:54 <Zakim> -JoaoPauloAlmeida
15:03:58 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:04:02 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has left #gld
15:04:07 <PhilA> HadleyBeeman: Asks about Best prac doc. Bernadette has had to leave already. No one else on the call to talk about it
15:04:19 <PhilA> meeting adjourned
15:04:27 <PhilA> rrsagent, make logs public
15:04:41 <sumit> sumit has left #gld
15:09:40 <PhilA> PhilA has left #gld
15:10:29 <Zakim> -Sumit
15:10:31 <Zakim> T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has ended
15:10:31 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.617.646.aaaa, Sandro, olyerickson, HadleyBeeman, bhyland, PhilA, DaveReynolds, Deirdrelee, Sumit, JoaoPauloAlmeida, +33.4.93.00.aabb
15:47:47 <bhyland> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
15:47:54 <bhyland> RRSAgent, generate minutes
15:47:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/17-gld-minutes.html bhyland
15:55:31 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman has joined #gld
17:03:59 <Zakim> Zakim has left #gld