IRC log of webmob on 2013-10-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:17:24 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-webmob-irc
12:17:26 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs 306
12:17:26 [Zakim]
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12:17:28 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
12:17:28 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:17:29 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web and Mobile Interest Group Teleconference
12:17:29 [trackbot]
Date: 10 October 2013
12:17:32 [dom]
RRSAgent, make log public
12:17:36 [dom]
Zakim, this will be webmob
12:17:37 [Zakim]
ok, dom; I see UW_(WEBM)9:00AM scheduled to start in 43 minutes
12:44:24 [schuki]
:D
12:45:57 [jsmanrique]
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12:46:17 [jsmanrique]
hi, just configuring the ip phone.. once again :)
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12:55:35 [Zakim]
UW_(WEBM)9:00AM has now started
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+ +44.207.356.aaaa
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- +44.207.356.aaaa
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UW_(WEBM)9:00AM has ended
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Attendees were +44.207.356.aaaa
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UW_(WEBM)9:00AM has now started
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+ +44.773.021.aaaa
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+ +49.211.533.aabb
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13:00:39 [jo]
zakim, code?
13:00:39 [Zakim]
the conference code is 932662 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), jo
13:00:57 [Zakim]
+ +44.771.520.aacc
13:00:57 [Zakim]
+??P16
13:01:01 [Zakim]
+??P25
13:01:01 [dom]
Zakim, ??P16 is me
13:01:03 [Zakim]
+dom; got it
13:01:04 [dka]
zakim, aacc is me
13:01:04 [Zakim]
+dka; got it
13:01:18 [KayFritz]
hi
13:01:29 [dom]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2013Sep/0133.html
13:01:36 [jo]
zakim, ??p25 is me
13:01:36 [Zakim]
+jo; got it
13:01:40 [dom]
Zakim, who's on the call?
13:01:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +44.773.021.aaaa, +49.211.533.aabb, dka, dom, jo
13:01:45 [dom]
ScribeNick: jo
13:01:55 [dom]
Zakim, aabb is KayFritz
13:01:55 [Zakim]
+KayFritz; got it
13:01:57 [dom]
Zakim, aaaa is schuki
13:01:57 [Zakim]
+schuki; got it
13:02:11 [schuki]
jo: nope
13:02:14 [Zakim]
+??P26
13:02:25 [KayFritz]
oh sorry, 49 211 533... tha´s me
13:02:34 [stakagi]
zakim, ??P26 is me
13:02:34 [Zakim]
+stakagi; got it
13:02:47 [Zakim]
-dom
13:03:15 [Zakim]
+??P2
13:03:17 [dom]
Zakim, ??P2 is me
13:03:17 [Zakim]
+dom; got it
13:03:20 [jo]
chair: natasha
13:03:26 [jo]
scribe: jo
13:04:11 [dom]
Regrets: Rob
13:04:14 [Zakim]
+??P1
13:04:29 [Zakim]
+ +1.908.559.aadd
13:04:32 [dom]
Zakim, ??P1 is jsmanrique
13:04:32 [Zakim]
+jsmanrique; got it
13:05:30 [Zakim]
+??P4
13:05:32 [jo]
Topic: welcome
13:05:57 [jo]
natasha: welcomes all to call and introduces herself
13:06:29 [dom]
dom has changed the topic to: WebMob call Oct 10 Agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2013Sep/0133.html
13:06:33 [jo]
… agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2013Sep/0133.html
13:06:38 [josecrespo]
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13:06:46 [jo]
… all newcomers please look at group home page
13:06:58 [dom]
-> http://www.w3.org/Mobile/IG/ WebMob home page
13:07:10 [jo]
… also please look at wiki, which is linked from home page
13:07:52 [jo]
… lot's of good stuff, which we have been working on
13:08:00 [jo]
s/lot's/lots/
13:08:00 [schuki]
http://www.w3.org/wiki/Mobile/Methods_of_Work#IRC
13:08:07 [jo]
topic: Modus Operandi
13:08:39 [jo]
natasha: stole some of the content from WebApps and Gov Linked Data
13:08:50 [jo]
… al the details we were talking about last call
13:08:55 [jo]
s/al/all/
13:09:04 [jo]
… gitHub, Tracker and more
13:09:43 [jo]
.. e.g. irc and so on
13:10:40 [jo]
… and finally, chairs have been scribing so far, please make sure you volunteer!
13:11:06 [jo]
topic: Closing the Gap
13:11:39 [dom]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2013Oct/0003.html Closing the gap report
13:11:50 [jo]
dom: sent a mail to list with pointers to my work so far
13:12:07 [jo]
… wanted to talk about tit and get feedback or commitment to feedback
13:12:37 [jo]
… last spring there was the headlight task force. Intended to analyse the situation wrt WebApps vs Native Apps
13:12:59 [jo]
… have tried to formalise some of the discussion into a framework so we can further the discussion
13:13:12 [jo]
… I'd like the IG to be the host for this IG
13:13:20 [jo]
… and that the analysis feeds our agenda ongoing
13:13:37 [jo]
s/thi IG/this discussion
13:14:13 [jo]
… as an end user how do you perceive a Web app as opposed to a native app, what are the SWOT, 3 docs discuss
13:14:25 [dom]
-> http://w3c-webmob.github.io/gap-analysis/ux-comparison-framework.html UX comparison framework
13:15:04 [jo]
… first doc looks at just the user experience of mobile apps
13:15:23 [dom]
-> http://w3c-webmob.github.io/gap-analysis/ux-webapps.html WebApps UX
13:15:27 [jo]
… second doc carries out an analysis of WebApps against this framework
13:15:56 [jo]
… analysis is less consensual / more subjective at the moment
13:16:05 [jo]
]… think it needs attention
13:16:11 [jo]
s/]//
13:16:33 [Rumoroso]
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13:16:43 [jo]
… third doc is a sketch of a set of actions to either reduce weaknesses or reinfoce the strengths
13:16:45 [dom]
-> http://w3c-webmob.github.io/gap-analysis/ux-actions.html UX Action plans
13:17:20 [jo]
… this set of three docs takes end-user perspective and helps to set the scene for evolution in a positive direction
13:17:31 [dom]
-> http://w3c-webmob.github.io/gap-analysis/provider-comparison-framework.html Comparison framework for providers
13:17:46 [jo]
… the second set of three docs does the same thing, but from a service provider perspective
13:18:33 [jo]
… a) comparison framework, b) strengths and weaknesses against this frameowork
13:18:33 [dom]
-> http://w3c-webmob.github.io/gap-analysis/provider-webapps.html Gap analysis from provider perspective
13:18:46 [jo]
s/meo/me/
13:19:13 [jo]
… people who are service or content providers can particularly look at this
13:19:23 [dom]
-> http://w3c-webmob.github.io/gap-analysis/provider-actions.html Action plan for improving provider perspective
13:19:43 [jo]
… c) the third doc is similarly to the first set some suggested actions in respect of service providers
13:19:54 [jo]
… quite length, hope it is usefl
13:20:13 [jo]
… in a new repo on our Github account:
13:20:16 [dom]
-> https://github.com/w3c-webmob/gap-analysis Github repo
13:20:40 [jo]
s/quite length, hope it is usefl/quite lengthy hope it is useful/
13:21:01 [jo]
… would be good to publicise to get further input e.g. from the browser community
13:21:24 [jo]
… next steps, would like to hear feedback from people who have read it, or just a commitment to read it
13:21:46 [jo]
… thanks Jo for reading and feeding back, (I haven't read what you wrote)
13:21:51 [jo]
jo: :-)
13:22:05 [jo]
dom: feedback from the group would be useful
13:22:09 [tobie]
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13:22:13 [jo]
natasha: any questions, or feedback
13:22:21 [jo]
q+
13:22:34 [KayFritz]
At least I can commit to reading it in the next weeks and give feedback
13:23:18 [jo]
jo: thinks it is really useful, and think it would be a good idea to set some deadlines on getting feedback
13:23:29 [jo]
natasha: agree, volunteers please?
13:23:53 [jo]
… everyone should read and feedback through mailing list and volunteer
13:24:25 [jo]
dom: volunteers … most welcome, and with a well-defined deadline
13:24:30 [KayFritz]
I commit to feedback until 24.October
13:24:42 [jo]
… getting input would be a good way to get more input so ...
13:24:49 [jo]
… let's dish out some action items
13:24:58 [dom]
ACTION: Kay to review closing the gap report - due October 24
13:24:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-53 - Review closing the gap report [on Kay Fritz - due 2013-10-24].
13:25:13 [schuki]
dom: sign me up for 24th oct too!
13:25:40 [dka]
I will get some feedback to you - please assign me an action.
13:25:43 [dom]
ACTION: Natasha to review closing the gap report - due October 24
13:25:43 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-54 - Review closing the gap report [on Natasha Rooney - due 2013-10-24].
13:25:43 [jo]
jo: noting that manrique volunteers also
13:25:54 [jo]
natasha: how do you want feedback?
13:26:07 [jo]
dom: a) do a pull request for edits that you think would be useful]
13:26:14 [jo]
s/l]/
13:26:29 [jo]
.. especially for editorial changes
13:26:38 [jo]
… b) feedback by email also work
13:26:48 [jo]
q+ to suggest that email in the first instance
13:27:08 [jo]
q-
13:28:09 [jo]
dom: limited feedback from Natasha and Jo that this makes sense, no sense that anyone else either supports the approach or doesn't
13:28:29 [jo]
topic: Taxonomy Document
13:28:52 [jo]
dom: have not got much feedback on this
13:29:17 [jo]
… this one is quite short, maybe too short to be useful, but need feedback that it is not useful if people think that
13:29:53 [jo]
… try to make sure we're talking about the same thing when we do talk in detail. Any comments? Anyone read it?
13:29:56 [jo]
q+
13:30:07 [jo]
ack me
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13:32:50 [jo]
jo: (speaks at length) but says that the discussion could be usefully deferred till we have discussed the documents above, since it needs to be framed in the light of what comes out of that discussion
13:33:57 [jo]
Topic: What is Mobile?
13:34:40 [dom]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2013Oct/0005.html Paper on Charter Scope Clarification and Context Relevant/Multi Device
13:34:57 [dom]
-> http://w3c-webmob.github.io/w3c-webmob-what-is-mobile/note.html
13:34:57 [dom]
A note on the meaning of "mobile" and relationship to the Webmob Charter
13:35:08 [dom]
-> http://w3c-webmob.github.io/w3c-webmob-what-is-mobile/note.html A note on the meaning of "mobile" and relationship to the Webmob Charter
13:35:09 [dka]
q+
13:35:37 [jo]
jo: discussion is mainly about the contextual factors that vary between any delivery context
13:35:57 [jo]
… provides a framework for looking at the differences between delivery contexts
13:36:18 [jo]
natasha: please provide any comments
13:36:20 [dom]
ack dka
13:36:51 [jo]
dka: to reiterate … we should be getting on in attacking the iussue
13:37:08 [jo]
… how to make the Web the platform of choice
13:37:18 [jo]
…understanding that when we talk mobile
13:37:43 [jo]
… expectation that people have that using internet services on the phone is about using apps
13:37:45 [jo]
q+
13:37:54 [jo]
dom: I could use clarification
13:38:14 [jo]
… do you see the earlier documents under discussion as meaning addressing head on
13:38:43 [jo]
dka: how we are talking about mobile is divorced from the reality
13:38:56 [jo]
… would like to see us more forthright
13:39:17 [jo]
… want to see us being more forthright in making the Web the platform of choice
13:39:27 [dom]
ack jo
13:40:03 [schuki]
q+
13:41:21 [dom]
ack schuki
13:41:42 [jo]
jo: agree with the dis of "platform of choice" but for what? in what circumstances?
13:41:49 [jo]
s/dis/idea/
13:41:59 [stakagi]
I also think that it is also mobile web to enable it to apply common contents and application, Regardless of a context[.
13:42:13 [jo]
… think would be a good idea for people to read the doc and then disagree with it rather than the other way round
13:42:14 [schuki]
http://www.w3.org/Mobile/mobile-web-app-state/
13:42:43 [jo]
topic: Standards for Web in Mobile
13:43:09 [jo]
natasha: my favourite page on the Internet, don't like anything more than this
13:43:21 [dan]
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13:44:02 [jo]
… very useful and allows us to monitor many things … and I am volunteering to help Dom keep document updated
13:44:18 [jo]
… if you'd like to volunteer ...
13:44:27 [jo]
… for many of the various topic ...
13:44:49 [jo]
… (Natasha lists the kitchen sink) …
13:44:58 [dom]
q+
13:45:01 [jo]
… recent one has been released recently
13:45:05 [jo]
ack d
13:45:20 [schuki]
schuki: lol jo
13:45:23 [jo]
dom: latest is Oct 1 - has a couple new features
13:45:46 [schuki]
schuki: i really do love this doc
13:45:49 [jo]
… some indication of the level of editorial activity, lets readers get some kind of idea if anything is happen
13:45:58 [dom]
ACTION: Dom to document how to contribute to Mobile Web App State doc
13:45:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-55 - Document how to contribute to mobile web app state doc [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2013-10-17].
13:46:03 [jo]
… thanks Natasha for offering to help
13:46:28 [jo]
… I'll provide more details as to how to do help
13:46:46 [jo]
… help could be to point out out missing/wrong etc.
13:47:00 [jo]
… but I'll set up a process for contributing
13:47:15 [jo]
… meanwhile, just contribute awar
13:47:22 [jo]
s/awar/away/
13:48:03 [jo]
nastasha: if you work in a specific area then that's where you can offer most help
13:48:13 [jo]
… very useful document
13:48:18 [jo]
topic: TPAC Update
13:48:29 [schuki]
http://www.w3.org/wiki/Mobile/TPAC_Face-to-Face#Agenda
13:48:37 [jo]
natasha: updates to the agenda at wiki
13:48:55 [jo]
… need to make some changes in response to feedback from chairs
13:49:06 [jo]
… hoping that people are able to attend
13:49:28 [jo]
… pls let me know if you plan to be there but not on a day that a topic of particular relevance to you will be discussed
13:49:52 [dom]
q+ to ask for input/feedback on draft agenda
13:50:05 [jo]
… Context Relevant Use Cases, needs some words, and on Testing Tobie has detailed what he'll be talking about
13:50:08 [jo]
ack d
13:50:09 [Zakim]
dom, you wanted to ask for input/feedback on draft agenda
13:50:24 [jo]
dom: just want to be clear that this is a proposed agenda that we are looking for feedback
13:50:28 [dka]
I will join the f2f.
13:51:09 [jo]
]… need clear documentation as to desired outcome of the session, need people to be prepared and to have read relevant docs
13:51:16 [jo]
s/]//
13:51:50 [jo]
natasha: want comments - offering Cadbury's Dairy Milk etc for first up with comments
13:52:06 [jo]
topic: CoreMob Report 2012
13:52:19 [jo]
jo: one web.
13:52:22 [jo]
oops
13:52:35 [jo]
s/oops//
13:53:43 [dom]
jo: this document represents our analysis of use cases that have been hard to put in place at a point in time
13:54:02 [dom]
... the difficulty might be linked to standardization status, or implementation status, or testing
13:54:22 [dom]
... I'm not sure how to best proceed with this document, esp. in light of dom's standards state document
13:54:35 [dom]
... It would probably be worthwhile to document evolution since the past 8 months
13:54:46 [dom]
s/the past 8 months/8 months ago/
13:55:15 [jo]
dom: I think it would be useful to look back and identify what has changed
13:55:48 [jo]
… some of the requirements that were not addressed though specification availability has moved on
13:56:19 [jo]
… think it would be useful to look at features, why they are not getting traction, why they don't meet the needs etc.
13:56:45 [jo]
… might be idealistic, but would be good to look at whether / why the technology meets the needs
13:57:01 [jo]
… work won't get done if none does it, so who feels motivated to work on it?
13:57:22 [jo]
… propose a more detailed plan to take the agenda forwards
13:57:32 [jo]
Natasha: last time I looked at the document
13:57:42 [jo]
… cross over with docs we are working on
13:58:02 [jo]
… is there a one line distinction as to why we should be doing this alongside other things
13:58:46 [jo]
… what is the aim of the document?
13:59:20 [jo]
dom: it's a look at a set of use cases are important to mobile use cases and what specifications provide features to address the use cases
13:59:30 [jo]
… looks at only a subset of possible sue cases
13:59:34 [jo]
s/sue/use/
13:59:50 [jo]
… doc provides prioritisation, over and above what the other doc does
13:59:58 [jo]
…. hence a useful driver
14:00:05 [Zakim]
-KayFritz
14:00:25 [jo]
… for features critical we need a more detailed analysis
14:00:38 [jo]
natasha: need focus on this and need use case first
14:00:40 [KayFritz]
sorry
14:00:59 [schuki]
KayFritz: np!
14:01:01 [jo]
… have dedicated a large chunk of time to this report at TPAC
14:01:12 [jo]
… hoping we can attach actions to that
14:01:38 [jo]
q?
14:01:44 [jo]
Topic: AOB
14:01:47 [Zakim]
-dka
14:02:01 [jo]
natasha: hearing none, time to close, thanks to all
14:02:17 [jo]
… also to Dom for talking so much
14:02:33 [jo]
meeting closed
14:02:33 [Zakim]
-??P4
14:02:35 [Zakim]
-dom
14:02:37 [Zakim]
-schuki
14:02:38 [Zakim]
-stakagi
14:02:39 [jo]
zakim, drop me
14:02:39 [Zakim]
jo is being disconnected
14:02:39 [Zakim]
- +1.908.559.aadd
14:02:41 [Zakim]
-jo
14:02:48 [schuki]
thank-you everyone!
14:02:51 [stakagi]
bye
14:02:58 [Zakim]
-jsmanrique
14:02:58 [Zakim]
UW_(WEBM)9:00AM has ended
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Attendees were +44.773.021.aaaa, +49.211.533.aabb, +44.771.520.aacc, dom, dka, jo, KayFritz, schuki, stakagi, +1.908.559.aadd, jsmanrique
14:04:20 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:04:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/10-webmob-minutes.html dom
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