's. 19:12:27 s/the expert/the one that implemented this 19:12:33 JS: They are all siblings. 19:13:06 JS: But, the first aria-owns the 2nd, the 2nd the 3rd, and so on 19:13:18 JS: Making an aria-tree. 19:13:31 s/aria-tree/ARIA tree widget/ 19:13:47 JS: James wondered if this was legal. 19:14:06 JS: In reality, you would nest these. 19:14:53 MichaelC_ has joined #aapi 19:15:44 DB: For aria 1.0 we expose relationships. 19:15:54 JS: you do not change the tree. 19:16:06 DB: right. Expose parent-of relationship. 19:16:34 DB: things like level or structural changes — we leave that up to the AT> 19:16:42 s/AT>/AT/ 19:16:58 JS: But the question is about IA2's group position. 19:20:14 JS: Checking FF24 on the test file … it fails. 19:20:40 DB: The statement in the UAIG — is it specifically for treeitem? 19:20:43 JS: Yes. 19:23:17 JS: It seems to me that if aria-owns is used to make the tree, and not the DOM, then the aria-level should be "correct" for the virtual parent/child relationship. 19:23:49 DB: I will follow up with Alex. 19:24:18 Topic: Action 1219 19:24:21 action-1219? 19:24:22 action-1219 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to UAIG: passive RFC requirement: two instances of "The state change events MAY be trimmed out for performance" Who is this requirement for? Authors? UA? AT? Be specific. What does "trimmed out" mean? Be specific. -- due 2013-05-14 -- OPEN 19:24:22 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1219 19:24:47 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_events_selection 19:26:14 JS: see suggested text in the note dated Sep 23. 19:26:17 we call it coalescing 19:26:26 DB: I approve of the text. 19:26:50 JS: I believe Cynthia approved at a previous meeting (I'll check the minutes). 19:27:04 JS: and we were waiting fo your approval. 19:34:24 Topic: action 1219 19:34:28 action-1219? 19:34:28 action-1219 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to UAIG: passive RFC requirement: two instances of "The state change events MAY be trimmed out for performance" Who is this requirement for? Authors? UA? AT? Be specific. What does "trimmed out" mean? Be specific. -- due 2013-05-14 -- OPEN 19:34:29 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1219 19:34:45 topic: issue 616 19:34:54 issue-616? 19:34:54 issue-616 -- ISSUE: Review potentially at-risk statement "When the user triggers an element with a defined activation behavior in a manner other than clicking it, such as by pressing Enter, simulate a click on the element." -- open 19:34:54 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/616 19:36:04 JS: Cynthia agreed with the text in the UAIG as is, and even if IE failed the test, IE should be fixed. 19:37:26 JS: I think this is what it the UAIG is talking about: 19:37:26 cyns has joined #aapi 19:37:34

19:37:45 my last meeting ran really long. did I miss hte whole thing? 19:37:57 cyns, no, we are in the middle of the meeting. 19:38:05 come join us! 19:38:41 +[Microsoft] 19:38:59 zakim, Microsoft in Cynthia 19:38:59 I don't understand 'Microsoft in Cynthia', clown 19:39:04 Zakim, Microsoft has me 19:39:04 +cyns; got it 19:39:22 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#keyboard-focus_tabindex 19:39:27 DB: what document? 19:39:34 DB: Section 4.2? 19:39:37 JS: yes. 19:39:50 JS: Step 10. 19:40:26 JS: I guess step 11 is somewhat involved. 19:41:28 JS: in the DOM wolrd, there was discussion of a "oncommand" or "onactivate" event. 19:41:37 JS: but, that was rejected in favour of "onclick" 19:41:41 s/wolrd/world 19:41:54 JS: note that onclick is different from onmousedown and onmouseup. 19:42:00 JS: It does mean "onactivate". 19:42:34 JS: I believe "onclick" is activated by a space bar or enter. 19:42:46 JS: but I might be wrong. 19:43:41 JS: James sees the utility of the approach, but feels it is the province of the DOM group, not the UAIG. 19:44:52 CS: this is something that is absolutely essential. 19:45:03 CS: We spent six months putting this in. I don't want it out. 19:45:16 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#def_activation_behavior 19:45:27 DB: what is a default activation behaviour. 19:45:47 s/default activation behaviour/defined activation behavior 19:45:54 CS: I think it's fne to have this at risk. 19:46:06 CS: But if we don't put something in the spec, it will never be implemented. 19:47:00 JS: the comeback would be: then take it to the DOM event group, and have them do it. 19:47:19 JS: But I have looked at the DOM level 3, and there is nothing like this in there. 19:47:34 DB: This whole area is to make the keyboard work. 19:47:56 DB: It may be that James thinks all of this belongs in the DOM spec. 19:48:17 DB: I don't really care where it goes, and I think everyone should implement it. 19:48:33 DB: I don't itchy when it's documented in the spec. 19:49:31 JS: 19:49:50 CS: That's why it's here — I don't trust authors to do it right. 19:50:01 I wish this was all cleaner 19:50:05 JS: BTW, there is no DOM-2 keyboard event standard. 19:50:32 JS: There is a DOM-1 keyboard event model, where keyevents are only on form elements and the element. 19:51:17 JS: note that in DOM-1 there is no bubbling. 19:52:29 JS: Now all browsers do bubbling of keyevents, even though this is underspecified by DOM events. 19:53:27 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=31 19:53:40 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testresults?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=32 19:54:16 JS: These are the wrong test cases. 19:56:28 DB: I understand all the text, but I want to read it again. The text is kind of ambiguous. 19:57:22 s/all the text/the event systems 19:58:02 http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wai-aria-implementation-20091215/#keyboard-focus_tabindex 19:58:53 "When the user triggers an element that is only focusable because of its tabindex attribute in a manner other than clicking it, such as by pressing Enter, and the element has no defined activation behavior, the user agent MUST fire a click event." 19:59:05 JS: the wording in the 2009 version of the document. 19:59:13 that makes more sense to me 19:59:32 MichaelC has joined #aapi 20:00:13 i wish i could disambiguate "When the user triggers an element" - triggers how? 20:00:27 ok enter… but what about API 20:01:02 CS: the gist of it is that it is always going to fire a click event. 20:02:21 JS: The overall impression I'm getting is that it should be kept even though it's at risk. 20:02:44 CS: It's important. I'm willing to make it a 1.1 issue. 20:03:18 CS: I don't think we need to make it a 1.1 issue: The resolution is to mark it at risk. 20:03:42 DB: I think we could word this better in places. 20:03:56 JS: Do you think that would satisfy James' problem? 20:04:02 DB: No. 20:04:11 CS: I think it's worth taking it to him. 20:04:40 JS: I think we need a joint PF UAIG meeting about this. 20:04:48 DB: Or do it over email. 20:05:53 topic: action-1255 20:05:57 action-1255? 20:05:57 action-1255 -- Cynthia Shelly to Look into toggle patterns and how that needs to be modified in the uaig. -- due 2013-09-28 -- OPEN 20:05:57 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1255 20:07:00 -David_Bolter 20:07:24 CS: I will get to it. Move the due date to next week. 20:07:46 -[Microsoft] 20:08:58 MichaelC_ has joined #aapi 20:09:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/08-aapi-minutes.html clown 20:10:02 zakim, please part 20:10:02 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Joseph_Scheuhammer, Michael_Cooper, David_Bolter, Cooper, cyns 20:10:02 Zakim has left #aapi 20:10:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/08-aapi-minutes.html clown 20:10:51 present- cyns 20:11:14 present+ Cynthia_Shelly 20:11:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/08-aapi-minutes.html clown 20:11:41 present- Cooper 20:11:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/08-aapi-minutes.html clown 20:16:21 rrsagent, please part 20:16:21 I see no action items