16:50:04 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:50:04 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-irc 16:50:06 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:50:06 Zakim has joined #ua 16:50:08 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:50:08 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 16:50:09 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:50:09 Date: 03 October 2013 16:50:52 allanj_ has joined #ua 16:53:42 rrsagent, set logs public 16:54:09 jeanne has joined #ua 16:58:14 agenda+ survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results 16:58:44 agenda+ Mobile Accessibility Task Force 17:01:10 Greg has joined #ua 17:01:34 Jan has joined #ua 17:02:38 zakim, code? 17:02:38 sorry, Jan, I don't know what conference this is 17:04:04 trackbot, start meeting 17:04:06 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:04:08 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 17:04:08 ok, trackbot, I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM already started 17:04:09 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 17:04:09 Date: 03 October 2013 17:04:14 zakim, code? 17:04:14 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), jeanne 17:04:36 + +1.609.734.aaaa 17:05:38 Eric has joined #ua 17:05:46 zakim, aaaa is really Eric 17:05:46 +Eric; got it 17:05:47 zakim, aaaa is eric 17:05:47 sorry, jeanne, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa' 17:06:52 zakim, who's here? 17:06:52 On the phone I see Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, [IPcaller], Jim_Allan, Eric 17:06:53 On IRC I see Eric, Jan, Greg, jeanne, allanj, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot 17:06:55 zakim, agenda? 17:06:55 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda: 17:06:56 1. survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results [from allanj] 17:06:56 2. Mobile Accessibility Task Force [from jeanne] 17:07:09 scribe: allanj 17:07:27 +[Microsoft] 17:07:28 open item 2 17:07:41 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/ 17:08:18 anyone in UAWG or WCAG can join the TF 17:09:56 looking for facilitators, hopefully 2 of them 17:10:28 +Kim_Patch 17:16:07 zakim, close item 2 17:16:07 agendum 2, Mobile Accessibility Task Force, closed 17:16:08 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 17:16:08 1. survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results [from allanj] 17:16:14 open item 1 17:17:19 topic: question 1 3.3.2 17:17:23 KimPatch has joined #ua 17:17:49 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results 17:18:17 definition of documentation 17:20:06 gl: a little uncomfortable of not even addressing the question of whether or not the term covers materials not included with the product 17:20:40 jr: what are you guarding against. 3rd party stuff. 17:21:16 gl: materials doesn't ship with product, so its not part, and doesn't have to be accessible 17:21:36 jr: are you concerned about a11y of material on the web. 17:21:54 gl: 'on the web' was dropped, that is a concern 17:22:57 ja: 'electronically' covers on the web 17:23:11 gl: didn't interpret that way 17:24:00 Documentation: Any information that supports the use of a user agent. This information may be provided electronically or otherwise and includes help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials, etc. Documentation may be distributed (e.g. as files included in the installation, available on the web). Note: The level of technical detail in documentation for users should match the technical... 17:24:02 ...level of the feature. For example, user documentation for a browser's zoom function should not refer users to the source code repository for that browser. 17:24:16 I thought "electronically" meant as opposed to in print, and "distributed" was a verb instead of an adjective. 17:24:26 Documentation: Any information that supports the use of a user agent. This information may be provided electronically or otherwise and includes help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials, etc. Documentation may accessed in various ways (e.g. as files included in the installation, available on the web). Note: The level of technical detail in documentation for users should match the... 17:24:28 ...technical level of the feature. For example, user documentation for a browser's zoom function should not refer users to the source code repository for that browser. 17:25:02 Documentation: Any information that supports the use of a user agent. This information may be provided electronically or otherwise and includes help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials, etc. Documentation may be accessed in various ways (e.g. as files included in the installation, available on the web). Note: The level of technical detail in documentation for users should match... 17:25:04 ...the technical level of the feature. For example, user documentation for a browser's zoom function should not refer users to the source code repository for that browser. 17:25:40 gl: should make sense without parenthetical. 17:25:52 Documentation can be distributed with the product or separately (e.g. on the web). 17:27:43 action: jeanne to update and smith (remove parentheticals, yet retain meaning) definition of Documentation: Any information that supports the use of a user agent. This information may be provided electronically or otherwise and includes help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials, etc. Documentation may be accessed in various ways (e.g. as files included in the installation,... 17:27:44 Created ACTION-893 - Update and smith (remove parentheticals, yet retain meaning) definition of documentation: any information that supports the use of a user agent. this information may be provided electronically or otherwise and includes help, manuals, installation instructions, tutorials, etc. documentation may be accessed in various ways (e.g. as files included in the installation,... [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 17:27:44 ... 2013-10-10]. 17:27:45 ...available on the web). Note: The level of technical detail in documentation for users should match the technical level of the feature. For example, user documentation for a browser's zoom function should not refer users to the source code repository for that browser. 17:28:01 kford has joined #ua 17:28:53 js: "documentation for users should match the technical level of the feature." -- suggest that it be 17:28:55 "documentation for users should match the technical level of what the user wants to accomplish". 17:29:48 jr: hard to know what the user wants to do. more testable to base on feature (address bar, dialog box, etc) 17:29:58 kp: +1 to jr 17:30:50 topic: question 2 intent of 3.3.2 17:33:19 gl: SC - described in interface, intent - self explanatory, comments most editorial except the self-documenting 17:33:49 gl: why are dev. docs not required...only recommended 17:34:06 jr: agree about self explanatory 17:34:56 ... dev docs are a second order documentation. this is for the user and testable 17:35:30 ... if it is a deep communication feature that the user doesnt see, how do we test it 17:37:33 action: jeanne to update the Intent of 3.3.2 with the comments from GL in the survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq2 17:37:33 Created ACTION-894 - Update the intent of 3.3.2 with the comments from gl in the survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq2 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10]. 17:38:29 topic: question 3 3.3.2 proposal 17:38:34 +[Microsoft.a] 17:38:41 -[Microsoft] 17:39:03 resolution: proposal accepted 17:39:24 action: Jeanne to update 3.3.2 SC from survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq3 17:39:24 Created ACTION-895 - Update 3.3.2 sc from survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20131001/results#xq3 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10]. 17:39:49 topic: quetion 4 1.4 intent and examples 17:40:06 s/quetion/question 17:40:28 resolution: proposal for 1.4 accepted 17:41:00 action: jeanne to move the intent and examples of 4.1 to the appropriate SCs 17:41:00 Created ACTION-896 - Move the intent and examples of 4.1 to the appropriate scs [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10]. 17:41:03 topic: question 5 1.4.1 changes 17:41:53 there are suggested stem handles 17:42:09 -Eric 17:42:55 discussion of construction of stem handles. 17:43:13 Global Text Scale, Color, Font 17:43:14 Text Scale, Color and Font 17:43:16 Global Text Spacing and Style 17:43:17 Configured and Reflowed Text Printing 17:43:19 Text Style, Margins, Borders 17:43:20 Global Fine Text Spacing, Capitalization and Hyphenation 17:44:29 js: global text is different than by element 17:44:50 Text, Scale, Color, Font Globally 17:45:09 Text, Scale, Color, Font, Globally 17:45:14 Text, Scale, Color, Font, by Element 17:45:39 gl: by element is by element type 17:45:46 from UA point of view 17:45:46 Allow Text Scale, Color and Font to be Configured Globally 17:45:48 Allow Text Scale, Color and Font to be Configured 17:45:49 Allow Preserved Size Distinctions 17:45:51 Allow Text Spacing and Style to be Configured Globally 17:45:52 Allow Printing of Configured Text 17:45:54 Allow Text Style and Margins to be Configured 17:45:55 Allow Text Fine Spacing, Capitalization and Hyphenation to be Configured Globally 17:47:07 gl: stem should be short and simple 17:48:26 Text Scale, Color, Font (Globally) 17:48:39 Text Scale, Color, Font (by Element) 17:51:38 Text Scale, Color, Font (Globally) 17:51:39 Text Scale, Color and Font (by Element) 17:51:41 Text Spacing and Style (Globally) 17:51:42 Configured and Reflowed Text Printing 17:51:44 Text Style, Margins, Borders (by Element) 17:51:45 Fine Text Spacing, Capitalization and Hyphenation (Globally) 17:52:18 action: jeanne to update the 4.1 stems from the minutes of meeting of 3 October. 17:52:18 Created ACTION-897 - Update the 4.1 stems from the minutes of meeting of 3 october. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10]. 17:53:07 topic: q6 1.4.2 new 17:54:34 gl: use 'element type' 17:55:34 (I don't really like making the stems even longer by adding Type, but it would be more accurate; if we can get away without that's good, for conciseness.) 17:57:03 jr: 'other elements' is untestable 17:57:27 kp: proposal- The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for text elements including main text and headings 17:57:48 gl: ONLY for a limited set of types 17:58:14 jr: what might need its own text style. 17:59:23 js: this could be user style sheets for html, but needs to cover non-html documents (pdf) 18:00:41 js: need a list -- form labels, table headers, headings, normal text 18:00:57 jr: form elements covered in highlighting 18:01:22 js: input elements - make the actual controls bigger 18:01:48 action: jeanne to write an example of making input elements larger to increase the click area for users with fine motor issues. 18:01:48 Created ACTION-898 - Write an example of making input elements larger to increase the click area for users with fine motor issues. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10]. 18:05:44 action: jeanne to add to 1.4.2 IER Resources to cross reference to the 1.3 highlighting of element types 18:05:45 Created ACTION-899 - Add to 1.4.2 ier resources to cross reference to the 1.3 highlighting of element types [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10]. 18:06:27 PDF will be a huge problem 18:07:47 The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for at least headings, main text, table headings, and input fields. 18:09:09 gl: what happens for documents with no styles (per se) 18:09:21 jr: how is main text different from globally 18:09:33 js: agree 18:09:54 jr: is table heading to html centric 18:10:03 The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for at least headings, table headings, and input fields. 18:10:35 it is also a problem for mobile browsers 18:11:21 js: issue for mobile browsers, no user style sheets 18:11:28 Gere we say labels and headers and table headers are an example of headers...http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/UAAG20/#sc_122 18:12:35 action: jeanne to add example to IER of 1.4.2 to include table headers as a type of heading 18:12:35 Created ACTION-900 - Add example to ier of 1.4.2 to include table headers as a type of heading [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10]. 18:12:56 The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for at least headings and input fields. 18:13:07 The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for at least headers and input fields. 18:14:06 resolution: 1.4.2 The user can set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content for at least headings, table headings, and input fields. 18:14:10 action: jeanne to add revised 1.4.2 from minutes of 3 October 18:14:10 Created ACTION-901 - Add revised 1.4.2 from minutes of 3 october [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10]. 18:14:30 topic: q7 1.4.3 new 18:16:32 need to be able to turn stuff off (text style and justification) 18:17:05 I would require the ability to turn bold on and off, but only need to turn off italics and underline. 18:18:14 1.4.3 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text: (Level AA) 18:18:16 Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0 18:18:17 Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09 18:18:19 Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09 18:18:20 Text style (underline, italic, bold) 18:18:22 Justification - (left, right, full) 18:18:53 discussion of how hard to do these things...for developer and user 18:21:11 gl: would not fail a UA for not setting all text underlined 18:21:44 brb 18:21:46 gl: getting rid of all formatting, would turn everything off. but some users may have a need to make everything bols 18:21:53 s/bols/bols 18:22:31 ja; would be useful to turn italic into bold 18:23:10 gl: this is global not just for italic items. 18:24:12 Text style (underline off, italic off; bold on/off) 18:27:27 agree we need units 18:28:39 -[IPcaller] 18:29:03 action: jeanne to follow up with proposal on text customization to clarify the units of measure called for in 1.4.3 proposal. 18:29:03 Created ACTION-902 - Follow up with proposal on text customization to clarify the units of measure called for in 1.4.3 proposal. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10]. 18:30:29 Justification - undo full justification 18:31:55 I don't want to add a requirement to support justification options if the original request was just to allow avoiding them. 18:34:07 I think the minimum is turning off full justification, and turning on the default justification for the language direction (left justification for left-to-right languages, etc.). 18:34:11 1.4.3 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AA) 18:34:13 Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0 18:34:14 Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09 18:34:16 Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09 18:34:17 Text style (underline, italic, bold) 18:34:19 Justification (undo full justification) 18:35:41 1.4.3 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AA) 18:35:42 Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0 18:35:44 Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09 18:35:45 Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09 18:35:47 Text style (underline, italic, bold) 18:35:48 Justification (turn off full justification) 18:36:32 js: remove left, right, full from AAA (1.4.6) and add it here 18:36:51 kp: +1 18:36:58 ja: +1 18:37:03 That will be simpler and easier than requiring requiring the default justification for the language 18:38:38 js: there is no not-full justification. 18:39:12 js: left or right justification removes centering 18:40:37 I can live with the proposal to require left/right/full justification, although it's not my preference because I don't know of any accessibility benefit of requiring turning ON full justification or right justification in left-to-right languages. 18:40:47 Resolution: 1.4.3 Configure text globally: The user can globally set all of the following characteristics of visually rendered blocks of text:(Level AA) 18:40:48 Line spacing of at least 1.0, 1.3, 1.5, and 2.0 18:40:50 Character spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09 18:40:51 Word spacing of at least 0.01, 0.03, 0.06, and 0.09 18:40:52 action: jeanne to accept the proposal, adding the unit of measure and changing Justification to justification (left, right, full) 18:40:52 Created ACTION-903 - Accept the proposal, adding the unit of measure and changing justification to justification (left, right, full) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-10]. 18:40:53 Text style (underline, italic, bold) 18:40:54 Justification (left, right, full) 18:41:24 -Kim_Patch 18:41:30 -Greg_Lowney 18:41:45 rrsagent: make minutes 18:41:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:42:01 zakim, please part 18:42:01 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, [IPcaller], Jim_Allan, +1.609.734.aaaa, Eric, [Microsoft], Kim_Patch 18:42:01 Zakim has left #ua 18:42:16 rrsagent, make minutes 18:42:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:43:14 zakim, who is here 18:44:04 chair: jimallan, kellyford 18:44:24 rrsagent, make minutes 18:44:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/10/03-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:54:12 allanj_ has joined #ua