14:54:29 RRSAgent has joined #dpub 14:54:29 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/30-dpub-irc 14:54:31 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:54:31 Zakim has joined #dpub 14:54:33 Zakim, this will be dpub 14:54:34 Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference 14:54:34 Date: 30 September 2013 14:54:35 ok, trackbot; I see SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes 14:54:42 zakim, code? 14:54:42 the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), fjh 14:55:17 SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM has now started 14:55:24 +??P6 14:57:11 tzviya has joined #dpub 14:57:41 madi has joined #dpub 14:58:07 + +1.505.603.aaaa 14:58:15 dauwhe has joined #dpub 14:58:23 Zakim, aaaa is azaroth 14:58:23 +azaroth; got it 14:58:33 brady_duga has joined #dpub 14:59:09 +Ivan 14:59:29 + +1.661.748.aabb 14:59:30 + +1.201.748.aacc 14:59:35 + +44.797.077.aadd 14:59:47 + +1.413.325.aaee 14:59:49 - +1.661.748.aabb 14:59:59 Zakim, who is here? 14:59:59 On the phone I see ??P6, azaroth, Ivan, +1.201.748.aacc, +44.797.077.aadd, +1.413.325.aaee 15:00:02 On IRC I see brady_duga, dauwhe, madi, tzviya, Zakim, RRSAgent, walkley, azaroth, mgylling, fjh, karenm, ivan, liam, plinss, trackbot, sandro 15:00:07 +[IPcaller] 15:00:07 zakim, ??P6 is walkley 15:00:08 +walkley; got it 15:00:14 zakim, [IPcaller] is me 15:00:15 +fjh; got it 15:00:17 zakim, aaee is dauwhe 15:00:17 +dauwhe; got it 15:00:23 Present+ Frederick_Hirsch 15:00:26 + +1.518.581.aaff 15:00:46 + +1.650.404.aagg 15:01:04 madi: /me is Rob Sanderson :) 15:01:04 JeanKaplanksky has joined #dpub 15:01:37 zakim, aagg is duga 15:01:37 +duga; got it 15:01:44 zakim, where is 650? 15:01:44 North American dialing code 1.650 is California 15:01:55 +??P7 15:02:13 zakim, aaff is JeanKaplanksky 15:02:14 +JeanKaplanksky; got it 15:02:34 zakim, aacc is tzviya 15:02:34 +tzviya; got it 15:02:35 Zakim, aacc is tzviya 15:02:36 sorry, azaroth, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc' 15:02:50 Regrets: Peter Linss, Bert Bos, Vladimir Levantovsky, Tom DeNies 15:02:53 Guest: Jean (JeanKaplanksky) Kaplansky, Aptara 15:02:55 + +1.201.390.aahh 15:03:11 + +1.503.456.aaii 15:03:36 + +33.1.43.92.aajj 15:03:41 Sharad has joined #dpub 15:03:46 zakim, aaii is Sharad 15:03:46 +Sharad; got it 15:03:55 zakim, who is here? 15:03:55 On the phone I see walkley, azaroth, Ivan, tzviya, +44.797.077.aadd, dauwhe, fjh, JeanKaplanksky, duga, ??P7, +1.201.390.aahh, Sharad, +33.1.43.92.aajj 15:03:57 On IRC I see Sharad, JeanKaplanksky, brady_duga, dauwhe, madi, tzviya, Zakim, RRSAgent, walkley, azaroth, mgylling, fjh, karenm, ivan, liam, plinss, trackbot, sandro 15:04:09 SuzanneT has joined #dpub 15:04:30 zakim, aahh is SuzanneT 15:04:30 +SuzanneT; got it 15:04:45 zakim, ??P7 is mgylling 15:04:46 +mgylling; got it 15:05:57 zakim, who is here? 15:05:57 On the phone I see walkley, azaroth, Ivan, tzviya, +44.797.077.aadd, dauwhe, fjh, JeanKaplanksky, duga, mgylling, SuzanneT, Sharad, +33.1.43.92.aajj 15:05:59 On IRC I see SuzanneT, Sharad, JeanKaplanksky, brady_duga, dauwhe, madi, tzviya, Zakim, RRSAgent, walkley, azaroth, mgylling, fjh, karenm, ivan, liam, plinss, trackbot, sandro 15:06:29 zakim, who is here? 15:06:29 On the phone I see walkley, azaroth, Ivan, tzviya, +44.797.077.aadd, dauwhe, fjh, JeanKaplanksky, duga, mgylling, SuzanneT, Sharad, +33.1.43.92.aajj 15:06:32 On IRC I see SuzanneT, Sharad, JeanKaplanksky, brady_duga, dauwhe, madi, tzviya, Zakim, RRSAgent, walkley, azaroth, mgylling, fjh, karenm, ivan, liam, plinss, trackbot, sandro 15:06:37 +Liam 15:06:42 zakim, aadd is madi 15:06:42 +madi; got it 15:07:25 +??P36 15:08:06 zakim, scribe is azaroth 15:08:07 sorry, azaroth, I do not recognize a party named 'scribe' 15:08:07 tmichel has joined #dpub 15:08:44 Pdanet has joined #dpub 15:08:49 zakim, aajj is Pdanet 15:08:49 +Pdanet; got it 15:08:55 scribe is azaroth 15:09:20 ScribeNick: azaroth 15:09:23 Madi: Minutes of last week. Any questions from last week? 15:09:40 ... Please register for TPAC meeting. 15:10:04 Ivan: Even sooner than as possible. Hotels are filling up and getting to China takes a long time to organize. 15:10:34 mgylling: My invitation was rejected by the embassy. Missing a physical street address and they haven't gotten back to me yet. 15:11:10 ... last week we asked plinss to confirm if we can have a slot with CSS, but he isn't here this week. Need to confirm or not still. 15:11:21 [ CSS meets on Wednesdays ] 15:11:32 Madi: Shall we move on to new members. 15:11:34 +??P37 15:11:48 ... ??? is a new member. 15:12:10 SuzanneT: Primarily involved in accessibility. 15:12:46 Jan McSorely 15:13:07 Jan McSorely: Also from Pearson, asked to join 15:13:14 Guest: Jan McSorely, Pearson 15:13:41 madi: Three new use cases on accessibility and personalization 15:13:52 http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/ReadingDisorder_UC#Accessibility 15:14:11 ... would like to walk through them. Pretty simple ones so far, just the tip of the iceberg 15:14:33 Jan: Suzanne has other use cases too. Would love guidance on how to make these ones better 15:14:58 ... My role in pearson - just hired in june as accessibility specialist. More of assistive tech specialist. 15:15:20 ... Use cases are about students with disabilities. written for computer based assessment. 15:15:38 madi : Accessibility in education is critical 15:15:45 ... Need to make it a priority 15:16:25 +[IPcaller] 15:16:46 Jan: Student with learning disability for reading. Does better with graphic support. Text highlighting etc improve comprehension 15:17:25 q+ 15:17:25 ... Also likely to have difficulty with memory and learning new material. School would like text that student can hear and see at the same time 15:17:34 q+ 15:17:49 ... Specific use cases to distinguish different features 15:18:10 Sharad has joined #dpub 15:18:49 ... Hard to get access for free for kids to electronic texts. Bookshare and learning ally two services that are federally funded. Provide access to digitized text. 15:19:02 ... One records audio and working on sync with highlight in text. 15:19:26 ... Can read in logical order, rather than top/bottom left/right 15:19:44 ... In schools, educator needs to know copyright restrictions 15:19:57 ... accessible everything is the ideal solution 15:20:26 ... Have to jump through hoops at the moment. 15:20:45 madi : Would student end up getting access? 15:21:05 aagt is a bug in zakim - I queued up as aagg to figure out if was me, then queued down once I was duga, but duga wasn't on the queue 15:21:14 Jan: Majority of the time they don't. Good IT team can help. Library of Congress has strict interpretation of who can get access. 15:21:33 ... Medical doctor has to say physical issue causing a learning disability 15:21:52 s/madi/SuzanneT/ 15:22:47 q- 15:22:52 madi : Do we want to capture these use cases, or too complex? 15:23:09 mgylling: Very big field, with lots of new things coming up. eg APIP 15:23:10 +Karen_Myers 15:23:18 alex has joined #dpub 15:23:21 ... What we're doing in this group is to focus on w3c technologies 15:23:33 Guest: Karen (karenm) Myers, W3C 15:23:39 ... metadata important, accessibility as well. Need coordination moving forwards. 15:23:43 I am new to the group. Alexander Garcia, from the American Psychological Association 15:23:55 ... APIP and PNP are good, attempting to address parts of the problem. 15:24:25 madi: Relations and dependencies 15:24:28 ... ? 15:24:38 mgylling: We want another field to point outside the w3c 15:25:17 mgylling: External relevant groups/specifications. Template for use case in the side bar, where the fields are defined. Should clarify 15:25:23 q? 15:25:40 which is the url for the template? 15:25:57 ack tzviya 15:25:58 ???: This brings to mind other orgs, such as Benentech 15:26:14 s/???/tzviya/ 15:26:28 ... seems like there's more than one use case here. read aloud is one issue, direction is another, time is maybe not addressed in a spec 15:27:26 ???: Third party to adjust the time on testing for education 15:27:29 -duga 15:27:46 tzviya: Like the category education professional. 15:27:50 mgylling: Categories still open 15:28:04 s/???/SuzanneT 15:28:16 It's Benetech : http://benetech.org/ 15:28:24 +duga 15:28:29 ivan: We have to work on these use cases to separate issues on w3c and not. 15:28:49 -[IPcaller] 15:29:03 ... Have a guest from benetech in the group, so may participate. More general question, already began to set up task forces into areas. 15:29:20 +[IPcaller] 15:29:21 ... wonder if accessibility in general should be a task force? 15:29:41 ... Lots of things that are inter-related in use cases. 15:30:00 mgylling: Agree. What we've been missing so far is enough people to start thinking about it. 15:30:30 ... know that Rich Sw??? with IBM, prominent figure in WAI, is hopefully going to join soon. 15:30:52 ... To accelerate the creation of group we can announce and start marketing it to people interested 15:31:11 q+ 15:31:21 Ivan: If Benetech joins IG, they will be interested in area as well. So will have enough muscle 15:31:24 s/Rich Sw???/Rich Schwerdtfeger 15:31:44 ack aagg 15:31:53 q+ 15:32:01 ack tzviya 15:32:25 tzviya: Worked with accessbility orgs over the summer, will be follow up. happy to reach out to groups, several would be interested in joining 15:32:30 +1 15:32:45 ack mgylling 15:33:14 mgylling: First use case, how does it relate to PnP? 15:33:51 jan: Specific information about the user needs. Lots of theoretical stuff in the IMS standard 1.0, so accommodations to say that students can have access according to their needs 15:34:16 ... so some students allowed to have passages read aloud in a test, for example. Which can be controversial. 15:34:55 ... Other issues about braille that don't have a good handle on. Would be beneficial for w3c folk to be involved so can bring issues to the table 15:35:13 ... eg difference between right by law and technically possible 15:35:31 q+ 15:35:33 mgylling: Want listing of relevant specs. Turn acronyms into links to specs. 15:35:57 Jan: Put schema into a word doc to work through. Can post that. 15:36:08 ... Maybe better understanding of where they're going 15:36:14 q+ 15:36:55 Ivan: Education group in W3C is clear. Accessbility metadata - what are you refering to there? 15:37:08 ... Know there's one for schema.org. This one? 15:37:18 "Relevant W3C groups" should include IndieUI: http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/ 15:37:24 ???: Only reference that I had. so I added it. 15:37:30 … which has some overlap with PNP, possibly 15:37:42 Ivan: Work with the accessbility people to get the right specs, etc. 15:37:46 s/???/Madi/ 15:37:53 ... Fear is that there isn't such a group 15:38:08 ... No dedicated group for accessbility metadata directly 15:38:10 +??P10 15:38:13 what about http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/? 15:38:19 tmichel has joined #dpub 15:38:20 mgylling: Just posted one (IndieUI) 15:38:35 thierry rejoining ... 15:38:37 mgylling: Preferences if you will 15:38:40 zakim, ??P10 is tmichel 15:38:40 +tmichel; got it 15:38:49 q? 15:38:53 ack ivan 15:39:03 ack azaroth 15:40:26 q? 15:40:31 azaroth: Could put EPUB back into this new field. So should go back to the previous "fixed" use cases 15:40:39 madi: Moving on... 15:40:42 http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Dyslexia_UC#Accessibility 15:40:56 madi: Accessibility has lots of unique use cases 15:41:12 SuzanneT: Dyslexia have different types of needs, several related to visual perception 15:41:34 s/SuzanneT/Jan/ 15:41:34 ... Student uses assistive technology, can annotate, bookmark and navigate due to DAISY formatting 15:42:15 ... Some need fonts, some not. Some fonts are weighted, eg Open Dyslexia font with differences in ascenders/descenders 15:42:26 ... Need control over this. Adjusting whitespace necessary too. 15:43:06 ... Colored overlay capabilities to change fore/background. 15:43:13 ... Ability to bookmark, annotate. 15:43:17 q+ 15:43:44 ... Text highlighting. Research shows that its beneficial for students to do this. 15:43:45 ack ivan 15:43:45 q+ 15:44:03 Ivan: Typical case where we combine use cases. Lots of use cases already on annotation. 15:44:17 Ivan: This is what we want. 15:44:33 sorry 15:44:35 mgylling: Agree, relations and dependences field. See the web of things being linked together 15:44:38 but which is the url for the use cases? 15:44:58 Jan: http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Social_Reading_and_Annotations 15:45:33 azaroth: Will link to accessbilities cases 15:45:49 mgylling: We're collecting requirements on the open web platform for things it can't do for us yet 15:45:50 -> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory directory of use cases 15:46:18 ... most of them are things that can't be done in OWP. Eg customizing fonts and colors hard to get to work satisfactorily 15:46:23 -[IPcaller] 15:46:31 ... so all these bullets are great input for things we need to work on 15:46:35 ... don't understand the first one 15:47:03 Jan: In terms of what they're using, have DAISY formatted books. Not familiar with EPUB3 capabilities. 15:47:21 ... Not may be the right place for that bullet 15:47:30 -duga 15:47:34 mgylling: Requirements should be like the rest. Imperative functionality. Features. 15:47:50 Jan: Will take that out and talk about features. Navigation capabilities by chapter, page etc. 15:48:17 Madi: Go further down, revise EPUB/DAISY from relevant groups 15:48:34 +duga 15:48:36 -duga 15:48:50 madi: Third accessbility case 15:49:05 http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/CerebralPalsy_UC#Accessibility 15:49:41 Jan: One thing important is that the students have access to different types of assistive technology. Would be good for the content to be compatible with the technology, tech compatible with guidelines 15:50:02 ... Student has poor fine motor skills and speech. Switch interface for wheel chair and computer. Word prediction software. 15:50:19 ... Can't use voice recognition software. Need to navigate easily. 15:50:29 ... Full keyboard navigation, nothing mouse dependent 15:51:04 ... Word prediction software needs contextual algorithm. very different from phone. 15:51:17 ... based on word we're trying to type on the phone, not the sentence. 15:51:46 ... Customized to student's vocab and context. In testing situation has to be turned off 15:52:08 ... Not sure that it has relevance in DPUB? 15:52:31 Ivan: Not something I can attach to anything in W3C. 15:52:50 Jan: How would you document it? Important to know what assistive technology they might use? 15:53:21 Ivan: Important because outsiders need to know requirements. Whether realization hits some big problem when relying on W3C technology? 15:53:44 ... Some sort of thought experiment about how they should be implemented, building blocks that must be around, in order to do that 15:53:50 ... Should be able to answer eventually 15:54:02 ... Features that we have to take care of. 15:54:13 Jan: How to document them in the use case? Part of Narrative? 15:54:38 Ivan: Narrative is fine with me. Kind of work task force will have to do is the thought experiment. What does implementation require 15:55:14 ???: These use cases help us think of the problems, can be parents of more specific ones 15:55:29 s/???/SuzanneT 15:56:08 madi: Anyone want to add to this? (...) Okay. Thanks to new people. 15:56:38 -madi 15:56:42 ... Eager to work on this sort of thing, so thanks for your work Jan. Thanks to Rob for scribing. 15:56:53 oops, I just left. Thanks everyone! 15:57:05 mgylling: Started pagination task force last week. Want to make sure there's a time line. Dave anything to say? 15:57:21 Dave Cramer: Started early work to describe pagination. Something concrete to respond to. 15:57:29 ... Plan is to share before next week's call. 15:57:57 mgylling: Will reserve time next week for pagination. Many people travelling next week to Frankfurt 15:58:04 Absolutely ! on the way to FRKFRT 15:58:31 ... accessibility task force - do we have a volunteer lead from Pearson? 15:58:40 SuzanneT: Happy to lead that task force 15:58:49 Thank you Suzanne! 15:58:57 mgylling: Suggest devote time next week to how to build the group and structure the work 15:59:21 -Sharad 15:59:33 -tzviya 15:59:35 -Pdanet 15:59:36 -walkley 15:59:37 -JeanKaplanksky 15:59:39 -Liam 15:59:41 -??P37 15:59:49 -fjh 15:59:53 -azaroth 15:59:55 -Ivan 15:59:59 zakim, who is here? 15:59:59 On the phone I see dauwhe, mgylling, SuzanneT, ??P36, Karen_Myers, tmichel 16:00:00 Markus: call me at (44) 2-7 010 2335? 16:00:01 On IRC I see tmichel, Sharad, SuzanneT, JeanKaplanksky, dauwhe, madi, tzviya, Zakim, RRSAgent, walkley, azaroth, mgylling, fjh, karenm, ivan, liam, plinss, trackbot, sandro 16:00:01 -dauwhe 16:00:05 -Karen_Myers 16:00:09 -SuzanneT 16:00:29 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:00:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/30-dpub-minutes.html tmichel 16:41:14 liam has joined #dpub 16:41:49 dauwhe has left #dpub