17:05:09 RRSAgent has joined #ua 17:05:09 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-irc 17:05:18 Zakim, this will be UAWG 17:05:18 ok, Jan, I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM already started 17:05:25 Meeting: WAI UA 17:05:36 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0114.html 17:05:42 Chair: Kelly Ford 17:07:09 +[IPcaller] 17:07:45 zakim, agenda? 17:07:45 I see nothing on the agenda 17:07:58 trackbot start meeting 17:08:00 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:08:02 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 17:08:02 ok, trackbot, I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM already started 17:08:03 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 17:08:03 Date: 26 September 2013 17:10:11 Regrets: Jim A., Kim P. 17:10:18 Scribe: Jan 17:10:52 Topic: Update on publishing Last Call 17:11:46 JS: A complaint was filed to Judy that we were violating Process by going to last call without addressing text customization 17:12:07 JS: Met with Judy about this 17:13:05 JS: I proposed we go to last call then work on the text customization piece 17:13:41 JS: But might cause a third last call 17:14:13 JS: Discussed with chairs 17:14:49 JS: I couldn't guarantee how long it would take 17:16:13 JS: If it will take longer than a month to add these pieces, we should be ok to go to last call regardless. 17:16:37 JS: So now, I'd like to look at what would be straightforward to do and what might take longer. 17:17:08 Attachment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/att-0116/implementing-uaag-text.html 17:24:58 Action: Jeanne to mark changes up into a new draft using 'new' and 'remove' styles (including the Intent of 1.4 even though that section doesn't match our current style). 17:24:59 Created ACTION-888 - Mark changes up into a new draft using 'new' and 'remove' styles (including the intent of 1.4 even though that section doesn't match our current style). [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-03]. 17:25:23 zakim, who's here? 17:25:23 On the phone I see Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, +1.425.883.aaaa, [IPcaller] 17:25:24 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, kford, Jan, Greg, trackbot 17:25:45 GL: I'm about 2 thirds of the way through this stuff and will send comments soon. 17:25:59 zakim, aaaa is really Kelly 17:25:59 +Kelly; got it 17:26:13 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan 17:26:13 +Jan; got it 17:27:56 Topic: proposals for 3.3.2 17:28:13 JS: Was working on it, but not sure what the final decision was 17:29:50 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0113.html 17:29:59 jeanne has joined #ua 17:31:25 Action: Jeanne remove or renumber "See guideline 5.3 for information about documentation." 17:31:25 Created ACTION-889 - Remove or renumber "see guideline 5.3 for information about documentation." [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-03]. 17:31:53 GL: Also table of contents needs fixing 17:32:15 action: jeanne to review table of contents and links 17:32:15 Created ACTION-890 - Review table of contents and links [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-03]. 17:34:57 Technically, if the conformance claim is on the web, couldn't someone claim that it counted as documentation, just as much as Knowledge Base entries on their web site? 17:37:53 Action: Jan to refine the definition of Documentation to rule out the conformance claim, user forum questions, etc. 17:37:53 Created ACTION-891 - Refine the definition of documentation to rule out the conformance claim, user forum questions, etc. [on Jan Richards - due 2013-10-03]. 17:38:16 Just to be clear, I would not veto the previously proposed wording, even though I feel it has potential loopholes. 17:39:35 It should be fine to put a note in the Implementing document that provides general guidance on what is and isn't within the spirit of the requirement. 17:40:25 Or maybe put the Note under the definition of Documentation. 17:40:39 My original comments are at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0111.html. 17:41:12 They're also beneath your reply. 17:41:24 Action: Jan to update the Intent of the IER of 3.3.2 to try to addess greg's concerns in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0111.html. 17:41:24 Created ACTION-892 - Update the intent of the ier of 3.3.2 to try to addess greg's concerns in http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/w3c-wai-ua/2013julsep/0111.html. [on Jan Richards - due 2013-10-03]. 17:41:49 Topic: proposals for 1.4 17:41:56 JS: That's my stuff from above 17:42:23 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0110.html 17:42:28 Topic: From timely final tweaks before Last Call 17:43:41 JS: I was doing Greg's tweaks 17:43:51 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/UAAG20/#sc_188 17:43:56 JS: And I got down to 4. Re Split of 1.8.1 and 1.8.x Customize Highlighting 17:45:09 If we decide to keep 1.8.x, it should be reworded because the agreed-upon wording does not work when taken out of context (i.e. it talks about highlighting, not about highlighting viewports). It should be changed to something like "When highlighting viewports as specified by 1.8.1 Highlight Viewport, highlighting options include at least" (which parallels the wording of 1.3.2, Highlighting... 17:45:10 ...Options). 17:45:12 4. In the chat of 2013-07-18 I'd suggested that we add to 1.3.2 "(d) shape and size when the indicator is an image", but it was at the very end and we didn't end up discussing it. 17:45:13 5. If we don't merge 1.8.x into 1.3, I suggest adding to 1.3.2 an additional list item, "blink rate, where blinking is implemented", thus paralleling the fact that blinking is referenced in 1.8.x. 17:47:22 JR: Not sure about "shape" 17:47:31 Yes, Jan, I can see that "shape" could be confusing. I was thinking of the different images (e.g. replacing Google's bunch of balloons with another image), but that's not clear. 17:47:40 We could say "image"? 17:48:31 Or drop that and just use size? But would color perhaps be a a problem, e.g. dark image when the user changes to dark background? 17:48:40 JR: Could we just keep at size? 17:49:14 Dropping to size would be okay. 17:49:38 (Changing images--sprites--is no more difficult than changing your user's profile image, etc.) 17:50:27 Dropping to size would be okay. 17:50:34 (d) size, when the indicator is an image 17:54:30 JR: GL's proposal was 1.8.8 When highlighting viewports as specified by 1.8.1 Highlight Viewport, highlighting options include at least 17:57:36 The proposed change to that is based on the wording of "1.3.2 Highlighting Options: When highlighting classes specified by 1.3.1 Highlighted Items, the user can..." 17:57:54 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130925/MasterUAAG20130925.html 17:58:21 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130925/MasterUAAG20130925.html#sc_188 18:00:09 Re 1.8.8, we want to say something like "where applicable", as we don't want to imply they have to add blinking, only make it adjustable where it's implemented, right? 18:01:50 Even things like stroke width don't always apply--it can be highlighted just by inverting the colors, for instance. 18:02:17 JR: And remove "shape" 18:03:20 Does this apply only to graphical viewports? 18:03:22 1.8.8 Customize Viewport Highlighting: 18:03:24 When highlighting viewports as specified by 1.8.1 Highlight Viewport, highlighting options include at least: (Level AA) 18:03:25 size 18:03:27 color 18:03:28 stroke width (where implemented) 18:03:30 blink rate (where implemented) 18:04:08 Does the proposed wording require they allow increasing the size of the highlighted title bar of the active window? 18:07:03 JR: Should "stroke width" be "borders (color, style, thickness)" from 1.3.2? 18:07:58 JR: OK to remove "size" 18:09:01 I'm a little confused over what is and isn't required/allowed/expected by 1.8.8, and what's used today. 18:09:26 Often the active viewport is today highlighted only with a keyboard focus indicator--is that enough, or not? 18:09:39 Presumably it's not as much as we'd like. 18:10:36 So having the viewport contain a text cursor that is customizable, good enough or not? I think it does not meet the intent. 18:10:48 Color is *always* foreground and background. 18:11:06 Changing one or the other leads to invisible text. 18:11:23 Not necessarily of the entire contents, but of the border, title bar, etc. 18:11:31 In this case. 18:12:51 The UA should not have to allow choosing between many different highlighting mechanisms, but we may want to define a minimum, and say that any attributes it uses should be customizable. 18:13:37 JR: Not sure example in 1.8.1 is of a viewport...its highlighting controls 18:13:43 That is, we don't want to require changing color of the content of the active viewport, but if the UA provides that option it must allow changing both foreground and backgroun. 18:14:49 Similarly we don't require highlighting with a border, but if it provides that, it must allow changing color and thickness of that border. 18:16:17 When highlighting viewports as specified in 1.8.1, the highlighting mechanisms must be customizable 18:16:45 When highlighting viewports as specified by 1.8.1 Highlight Viewport, the highlighting mechanism must be customizable (e.g., blink rate, border style). 18:17:02 "the user can customize attributes of the highlighting mechanism"? To try to avoid implying that we require choosing additional mechanisms. 18:17:43 "(e.g. blink rate for blinking, color and width of borders)" 18:17:46 1.8.8 Customize Viewport Highlighting: The user can customize attributes of the viewport highlighting mechanism (e.g., blink rate, border style). 18:18:03 1.8.8 Customize Viewport Highlighting: The user can customize attributes of the viewport highlighting mechanism (e.g. blink rate for blinking, color and width of borders). 18:18:30 Oops, you lost the reference to 1.8.1". 18:18:47 s/"// 18:19:06 1.8.8 Provide Viewport Highlighting Options: The user can customize attributes of the viewport highlighting mechanism (e.g. blink rate for blinking, color and width of borders). 18:19:28 kford has joined #ua 18:20:10 Looks good! (Once the list is removed0. 18:20:16 s/0/)/ 18:20:22 JS: 1.8.8 Customize Viewport Highlighting: When highlighting viewports as specified by 1.8.1 Highlight Viewport, the user can customize attributes of the viewport highlighting mechanism (e.g. blink rate for blinking, color and width of borders). (Level AA) 18:20:54 Did you want to keep thickness as a border attribute? 18:21:00 I left that out. 18:21:13 Sorry, "style". 18:21:26 Okay to leave out of the SC itself, can be in examples. 18:21:54 Jan, did you agree with my proposals? 18:22:01 JR: We are finished Greg's comments re: 1.8.8 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0110.html 18:23:05 I think the whole "style" thing was about choosing solid over dotted, etc., but probably fine. 18:23:26 Jan, did you review and agree with my other proposals in the email, the ones Jeanne had no questions about? 18:24:36 JS: Looking at some others... 18:25:28 JS: 1.6.5 def can add those phrases to the intent 18:28:11 Topic: EO comment 2010? 18:28:34 JS: Jim and I need to look back into 2010 to see what the reolutions were. 18:30:06 -Kelly 18:30:08 -Jan 18:30:11 -Jeanne 18:30:15 -Greg_Lowney 18:30:16 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 18:30:16 Attendees were Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, +1.425.883.aaaa, Kelly, Jan 18:30:22 RRSAgent, make minutes 18:30:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-minutes.html Jan 18:30:28 RRSAgent, set logs public 18:30:32 Zakim, bye 18:30:32 Zakim has left #ua 18:30:37 RRSAgent, bye 18:30:37 I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-actions.rdf : 18:30:37 ACTION: Jeanne to mark changes up into a new draft using 'new' and 'remove' styles (including the Intent of 1.4 even though that section doesn't match our current style). [1] 18:30:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-irc#T17-24-58 18:30:37 ACTION: Jeanne remove or renumber "See guideline 5.3 for information about documentation." [2] 18:30:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-irc#T17-31-25 18:30:37 ACTION: jeanne to review table of contents and links [3] 18:30:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-irc#T17-32-15 18:30:37 ACTION: Jan to refine the definition of Documentation to rule out the conformance claim, user forum questions, etc. [4] 18:30:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-irc#T17-37-53 18:30:37 ACTION: Jan to update the Intent of the IER of 3.3.2 to try to addess greg's concerns in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0111.html. [5] 18:30:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-irc#T17-41-24