20:28:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:28:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-svg-irc
20:28:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:28:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:28:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)4:30PM already started
20:28:26 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:28:26 <trackbot> Date: 26 September 2013
20:28:37 <ed> chair: ed
20:29:18 <ed> regrets: heycam, brian, luc, chris
20:29:33 <ed> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2013Sep/0040.html
20:30:01 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:30:10 <ed> Zakim, [IP is me
20:30:10 <Zakim> +ed; got it
20:30:11 <thorton_> thorton_ has joined #svg
20:30:31 <Zakim> +??P8
20:30:57 <Zakim> + +33.9.53.77.aaaa
20:30:59 <stakagi> Zakim, +??P8 is me
20:30:59 <Zakim> sorry, stakagi, I do not recognize a party named '+??P8'
20:31:04 <Zakim> + +33.9.80.39.aabb
20:31:21 <ed> Zakim, ??P8 is stakagi
20:31:21 <Zakim> +stakagi; got it
20:31:22 <cyril> zakim, aabb is me
20:31:23 <Zakim> +cyril; got it
20:31:25 <Tav> zakim, aaaa is me
20:31:25 <Zakim> +Tav; got it
20:31:29 <cyril> zakim, mute me
20:31:29 <Zakim> cyril should now be muted
20:32:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #svg
20:32:20 <ed> Zakim, pick a scribe
20:32:20 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Tav
20:32:34 <ed> Zakim, pick a scribe
20:32:34 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose krit1
20:32:50 <ed> Zakim, pick a scribe
20:32:50 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ed
20:32:56 <cyril> scribeNick: cyril
20:33:02 <cyril> scribe: Cyril
20:33:17 <cyril> krit1: are we enough people to make decisions
20:33:20 <cyril> ed: I think so
20:33:47 <Zakim> +nikos
20:33:48 <cyril> topic: modes of SVG in SVG Integration
20:33:59 <krit1> https://svgwg.org/specs/integration/
20:34:06 <cyril> krit1: the spec has different modes
20:34:15 <cyril> ... referencing modes for SVG
20:34:21 <cyril> ... do we need all of them ?
20:34:28 <cyril> ... only 2 seem relevant
20:34:47 <cyril> ... referencing for gradients, patterns
20:34:49 <Zakim> +Rich
20:35:00 <cyril> ... for me the integration is more for security model and for how to use svg
20:35:07 <cyril> ... but doug would disagree with me
20:35:39 <cyril> ... we could have 2 modes: document mode and resource mode
20:35:45 <cyril> ... and have use cases
20:36:06 <cyril> ... we don't want to retrict browsers to activate/deactive scripts
20:36:20 <cyril> ... I have nothing against describing modes that can be used
20:36:28 <cyril> .... but not specifiying them
20:37:01 <cyril> ed: we should describe how browsers behave wrt loading of resources
20:37:16 <cyril> ... are you suggesting to add that to SVG integration spec or SVG 2
20:37:22 <cyril> krit1: integration
20:38:16 <cyril> ... we should have Doug to get an agreement
20:38:26 <cyril> ed: have you discussed it?
20:38:31 <cabanier> cabanier has joined #svg
20:38:39 <cyril> krit1: we have an agreement that heycam and me would be editors
20:38:52 <cyril> ... but I'd like to have an agreement on the direction
20:39:19 <cyril> ed: discussion postponed
20:39:36 <cyril> Topic: scaling dash patterns and strokes
20:39:44 <cyril> zakim , unmute me
20:39:56 <cyril> zakim, unmute me
20:39:56 <Zakim> cyril should no longer be muted
20:40:33 <cyril> ThomasSmailus: I think there is a need for having stroke patterns that don't change when the scale factor applies
20:40:39 <cyril> ... the pattern should stay the same
20:41:06 <cyril> ... currently if yo uzoom in or out the pattern changes
20:41:10 <cyril> Tav: I could see several behaviors
20:41:14 <ed> s/discussion postponed/discussion postponed until doug is present/
20:41:19 <cyril> ... the stroke stays the same
20:41:26 <cyril> ... the pattern stays the same
20:41:40 <cyril> nikos: do you want the whole pattern to be rendered in screen space
20:41:44 <cyril> ThomasSmailus: yes
20:42:05 <cyril> ... eg on a rail road map, if you zoom on it, the pattern should stay the same
20:42:22 <cyril> Tav: I would think that vector effect with non scaling stroke should do that
20:42:31 <cyril> ThomasSmailus: that does no't seem to be the case in the example
20:42:32 <ed> http://jsfiddle.net/akvzh/4/
20:43:10 <cyril> Tav: it's weird when you scale up the pattenr gets smaller
20:43:50 <cyril> Tav: is there a case where the stroke would change width but the dash pattern stays fixed
20:44:07 <cyril> .. if not we specify that if the width is not changing then the dash pattern should not change
20:44:16 <cyril> ... we should make it clearer in the spec
20:44:29 <cyril> krit1: that's not what browsers or Adobe Illustrator does
20:44:46 <cyril> Tav: that does not make sense to me how it behaves now
20:45:22 <cyril> krit1: if you zoom the width may not change but the length and the dash array changes
20:45:59 <cyril> ThomasSmailus: I guess I would want a non scaling dash pattern
20:46:11 <cyril> nikos: that would apply to hatches I think too
20:46:30 <cyril> ThomasSmailus: yes you can see hatches as a 2D dash array
20:46:47 <cyril> nikos: from what I've been told, PDF is also trying to fix that but it's not easy
20:47:15 <nikos> WebCGM and CGM supports this
20:47:28 <cyril> krit1: some computations are not easy, Illustrator is doing the same thing as browsers by accident because the current libraries don't offer the right tools for that
20:48:16 <cyril> ed: how do we proceed, add a new property ?
20:48:26 <cyril> krit1: I think it's an implementation issue
20:48:35 <cyril> nikos: I would need to see how it behaves
20:48:42 <cyril> Tav: it's a very important property
20:48:46 <cyril> nikos: agreed
20:48:58 <cyril> ed: does someone wants to investigate more
20:49:24 <cyril> krit1: it's enough to implement with Canvas, browsers don't add more magic
20:50:14 <cyril> krit1: thomas do you have resources for that
20:50:16 <cyril> ThomasSmailus: not at the moment
20:50:29 <cyril> Tav: I could try and implement it in Inkscape but not the in a month
20:51:10 <cyril> Issue: investigate possible implementation issues around dash array patterns
20:51:10 <trackbot> Error creating an ISSUE: an internal error occurred.  Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
20:51:50 <cyril> ThomasSmailus: CGM has support for that
20:51:56 <cyril> nikos: and WebCGM too
20:51:57 <nikos> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/WebCGM/
20:52:04 <cyril> ThomasSmailus: if we figure out how they do it
20:52:12 <cyril> ... that would give us an implementation
20:52:32 <cyril> ... but is it just an implementation aspect or does it need to be specified differentyl
20:52:58 <cyril> nikos: can you specify a different coordinate space when you specify a hatch or pattern
20:53:08 <cyril> ... would using 'screen' be enough ?
20:53:42 <cyril> cyril: looks like constrained transform
20:53:58 <cyril> krit1: that's a different topic
20:54:12 <cyril> ... it would be possible for patterns but for lines it's different
20:54:21 <cyril> nikos: I think patterns are the important case
20:54:33 <cyril> ThomasSmailus: for me the more important case is dashed lines
20:54:44 <cyril> krit1: parsers don't have control over the dash array
20:55:08 <cyril> ... you could solve it by transforming the path into the right coordinate space
20:55:12 <cyril> .. need to think about it
20:55:20 <ed> ISSUE-2451?
20:55:20 <trackbot> ISSUE-2451 -- Investigate implementability of non-scaling dash array patterns -- raised
20:55:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2451
20:56:07 <cyril> ed: postponed until someone has the time investigate further
20:56:14 <cyril> Topic: hit testing svg root
20:56:18 <cyril> ed: doug is not here
20:56:31 <cyril> Topic: location and dates for 2014 Q1 F2F
20:56:43 <cyril> cyril: Sydney !
20:57:33 <cyril> krit1: CSS is meeting January 27-29 in Seattle
20:57:36 <ed> http://doodle.com/kzd7fuw48t6ds4fn
20:57:40 <cyril> nikos: fine with me
20:57:52 <cyril> ... or we can hot if you want to come to Syndey
20:58:17 <cyril> krit1: do we have a schedule for the whole year ?
20:58:19 <cyril> ... it's better for the budget
20:58:26 <cyril> ed: next one is TPAC
20:58:30 <cyril> .... then february
20:58:49 <cyril> ... most people suggest 3 or 4 meeting per year
20:58:57 <cyril> 3 or 4 days each
20:59:08 <cyril> cyril: I can host in Paris if you want
20:59:33 <cyril> Tav: nice to be in a reasonable time zone
21:00:00 <cyril> ed: would be fine in Seattle if it is next to the CSS meeting
21:00:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> +1
21:01:06 <cyril> ed: 3 days of meeting between 29 and 31st
21:01:59 <cyril> krit1: I will discuss it in the CSS WG
21:02:01 <cyril> RESOLUTION: SVG WG will meet in Seattle between the 29 and the 31st of January 2014
21:02:20 <cyril> suggestions for other meetings ?
21:02:25 <cyril> ed: suggestions for other meetings ?
21:02:43 <cyril> ed: we have several companies willing to host
21:03:02 <cyril> ... Hachette offered to host too
21:03:12 <cyril> nikos: Canon can host in Tokyo if we want to go there again
21:03:54 <cyril> cyril: we need to look at the dates of the Libre Graphics and/or The Graphical Web
21:04:15 <cyril> ACTION: ed to discuss with heycam and send suggestion dates or questionnaire for the next few meetings in 2014
21:04:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3531 - Discuss with heycam and send suggestion dates or questionnaire for the next few meetings in 2014 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2013-10-03].
21:04:52 <cyril> ed: reminder the daylight saving time shift will happen soon
21:04:59 <ed> http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/2013b.html
21:05:56 <cyril> ... please check your emails and use the link
21:06:06 <cyril> ... we will change after TPAC
21:06:23 <cyril> krit1: Chris says he is fine with meetings in the evening but before 10pm
21:07:54 <cyril> cyril: we could look at scheduling the meetings in the evening in West coast, afternoon in Australia, and morning in Europe
21:08:05 <cyril> ... the only problem is East Coast
21:08:18 <cyril> ... don't know if for who it would be a problem
21:09:25 <cyril> Tav: we have to pick a time for Japan
21:10:05 <cyril> ACTION: ed to create a questionnaire to setup the new telcon time
21:10:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3532 - Create a questionnaire to setup the new telcon time [on Erik Dahlström - due 2013-10-03].
21:10:33 <cyril> nikos: weighted questionnaire to favor people who suffered in the past
21:10:45 <cyril> krit1: will have agenda items on filters next week
21:10:57 <cyril> Topic: CSS new API for shapes
21:11:11 <cyril> krit1: it might be of interest to the group
21:11:27 <cyril> cyril: do you have a link to a WD
21:11:44 <cyril> krit1: no, soon DOM Matrix and CSS OM view will be merged
21:12:04 <cyril> ... the geometry APIs of them
21:12:35 <cyril> krit1: I would like the members to look at them and comment if possible on www-style
21:13:24 <krit1> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/cssom-view/#the-domrect-and-domrectimmutable-interfaces
21:13:45 <cyril> krit1: the only problem I see so far is that CSS uses top/left ... and we would need x and y
21:14:05 <cyril> ... I'm not sure what is the best solution
21:14:40 <cyril> ... we might discuss that at TPAC
21:15:16 <cyril> ed: all browsers have to deal with x,y anyway and not onyl topleft
21:15:28 <cyril> ... I don't think that's such a big problem
21:15:34 <cyril> ... but we should raise the issue
21:15:53 <cyril> RRSagent, make minutes
21:15:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-svg-minutes.html cyril
21:15:56 <Zakim> -thomas
21:16:00 <Zakim> -nikos
21:16:01 <Zakim> -ed
21:16:03 <Zakim> -cyril
21:16:04 <Zakim> -stakagi
21:16:04 <Zakim> -krit1
21:16:05 <Zakim> -Rich
21:16:06 <Zakim> -Tav
21:16:08 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG(SVG1)4:30PM has ended
21:16:08 <Zakim> Attendees were thomas, krit1, [IPcaller], ed, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, +33.9.80.39.aabb, stakagi, cyril, Tav, nikos, Rich
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