IRC log of webmob on 2013-09-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:16:51 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #webmob
13:16:51 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:16:53 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs 306
13:16:53 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #webmob
13:16:55 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
13:16:55 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:16:56 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web and Mobile Interest Group Teleconference
13:16:56 [trackbot]
Date: 25 September 2013
13:17:01 [dom]
RRSAgent, make log public
13:17:05 [dom]
Zakim, this will be webmob
13:17:05 [Zakim]
ok, dom; I see UW_()10:00AM scheduled to start in 43 minutes
13:50:21 [dom]
Chair: Jo
13:51:03 [dom]
13:55:11 [ldeluca]
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13:57:03 [jsmanrique]
jsmanrique has joined #webmob
13:57:10 [jsmanrique]
hi everybody
13:57:29 [jsmanrique]
I am trying to configure my sip software
13:58:05 [Zakim]
UW_()10:00AM has now started
13:58:12 [Zakim]
13:58:26 [schuki]
hi jsmanrique!
13:58:54 [schuki]
good good, so far I am the only one on the bridge, but we are a little early
13:59:53 [dom]
Zakim, code?
13:59:53 [Zakim]
the conference code is 932662 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, dom
13:59:56 [Zakim]
14:00:15 [Zakim]
14:00:16 [dom]
Zakim, ??P6 is me
14:00:16 [Zakim]
+dom; got it
14:00:19 [LisaDeLuca_IBM]
LisaDeLuca_IBM has joined #webmob
14:00:24 [dom]
Zakim, ??P3 is jorabin
14:00:24 [Zakim]
+jorabin; got it
14:00:27 [schuki]
14:01:04 [jsmanrique]
oh, I think I've forgotten most of zakim commands :)
14:01:11 [dom]
ScribeNick: schuki
14:01:19 [dom]
Scribe: Natasha
14:01:20 [Zakim]
14:01:28 [marcosc]
marcosc has joined #webmob
14:01:39 [dom]
Zakim, IPcaller is marcosc
14:01:39 [Zakim]
+marcosc; got it
14:01:44 [LisaDeLuca_IBM]
i'm getting a message that hte passcode is not valid
14:02:05 [marcosc]
LisaDeLuca_IBM: are you using skype?
14:02:11 [LisaDeLuca_IBM]
14:02:14 [dom]
Zakim, code?
14:02:14 [Zakim]
the conference code is 932662 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, dom
14:02:48 [jorabin]
zakim, who is here?
14:02:48 [Zakim]
On the phone I see schuki, jorabin, dom, marcosc
14:02:49 [Zakim]
On IRC I see marcosc, LisaDeLuca_IBM, jsmanrique, Zakim, RRSAgent, tobie, Ig_Ibert_Bittencourt, ArtB, jorabin, dom, schuki, trackbot
14:02:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.787.aaaa
14:03:04 [Zakim]
+ +1.908.559.aabb
14:03:07 [dom]
Zakim, aaaa is LisaDeLuca_IBM
14:03:07 [Zakim]
+LisaDeLuca_IBM; got it
14:03:35 [dom]
Zakim, aabb is DanSun
14:03:35 [Zakim]
+DanSun; got it
14:04:14 [Zakim]
14:04:27 [dan]
dan has joined #webmob
14:04:35 [marcosc]
zakim, mute ??P21
14:04:36 [Zakim]
??P21 should now be muted
14:04:50 [dom]
Zakim, ??P21 is jsmanrique
14:04:50 [Zakim]
+jsmanrique; got it
14:05:21 [schuki]
jorabin: welcome everyone!
14:05:30 [Rumoroso]
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14:05:55 [dom]
14:06:23 [dom]
Topic: Welcome
14:06:32 [Ig_Ibert_Bittencourt]
Hi everyone
14:06:44 [Jose_Crespo]
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14:06:52 [schuki]
schuki: hi! I am Natasha from GSMA
14:07:01 [schuki]
marcosc: hi! I am another co-chair, welcome everyone
14:07:08 [Rumoroso]
hi, I am connecting to voip... I am Rumoroso, from CTIC...
14:07:15 [schuki]
dom: i am also excited about being here, looking forward to the work we will be doing
14:07:22 [schuki]
jorabin: thanks everyone
14:07:26 [dom]
Topic: IG Goals
14:07:51 [jorabin]
-> IG Charter
14:07:53 [schuki]
jorabin: let's go through the goals
14:07:59 [Jose_Crespo]
Hi there
14:08:29 [schuki]
jorabin: mission: The mission of the Web and Mobile Interest Group, part of the Mobile Web Initiative Activity, is to accelerate the development of Web technology so that it becomes a compelling platform for mobile applications and the obvious choice for cross platform development.
14:08:56 [schuki]
jorabin: this is our top level statement
14:09:54 [schuki]
jorabin: we have been talking about the meaning of mobile / apps
14:10:04 [schuki]
... it could be a waste of time to discuss this
14:10:22 [schuki]
jorabin: but this is important as it helps us to scope the group
14:10:41 [schuki]
... so it would be wise for us to define to help us work towards this scope
14:11:58 [schuki]
schuki: i am good with discussing this but would be good to have a cut off point
14:12:00 [dom]
Zakim, list attendees
14:12:00 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been schuki, dom, jorabin, marcosc, +1.415.787.aaaa, +1.908.559.aabb, LisaDeLuca_IBM, DanSun, jsmanrique
14:12:19 [schuki]
... so we don't get into a long and arduous discussion and don't get any work done!
14:12:22 [jorabin]
to be clear, I think we should spend time discussing meaning of "mobile" and "apps" as much as it is useful to clarify our mission, namely "is to accelerate the development of Web technology so that it becomes a compelling platform for mobile applications and the obvious choice for cross platform development."
14:13:01 [schuki]
marcosc: we should spend time on this if there is controversy, but not spend too much time on this
14:13:16 [dom]
Topic: Modus Operandi
14:13:36 [schuki]
jorabin: we will be using the mailing list
14:13:46 [schuki]
14:13:56 [schuki]
... we have also decided to use the W3C Tracke
14:13:58 [dom]
-> Tracker for WebMob
14:14:07 [schuki]
14:14:44 [dom]
14:14:44 [trackbot]
ACTION-30 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to Add a note about (or remove) 20% participation requirement from charter. -- due 2013-09-25 -- OPEN
14:14:44 [trackbot]
14:14:47 [stakagi]
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14:14:52 [schuki]
dom: we can use this with IRC
14:14:54 [Zakim]
14:15:02 [schuki]
... we can create action items with IRC
14:15:10 [dom]
-> Tracker documentation
14:15:23 [Zakim]
14:15:33 [jorabin]
zakim, ??P3 is me
14:15:33 [Zakim]
+jorabin; got it
14:15:38 [schuki]
ACTION: Natasha, include tracker link onto New Participants wiki page
14:15:38 [trackbot]
Error finding 'Natasha,'. You can review and register nicknames at <>.
14:16:35 [schuki]
dom: you can now subscribe to action items
14:16:36 [Zakim]
14:16:51 [stakagi]
zakim, ??P24 is me
14:16:51 [Zakim]
+stakagi; got it
14:17:32 [schuki]
jorabin: how long do we think we should be holding teleconfs?
14:17:39 [schuki]
...might be hard to say right now
14:17:49 [schuki]
...not sure on how much work we have
14:18:12 [schuki]
...any views from the participants?
14:18:29 [jorabin]
i/how long/Topic: Teleconferences
14:20:09 [schuki]
jorabin: who can organise a poll to do teleconfs?
14:20:12 [schuki]
dom: me!
14:20:13 [jorabin]
ACTION: Dom to organise a Doodle poll re teleconference times
14:20:14 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-39 - Organise a doodle poll re teleconference times [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2013-10-02].
14:21:02 [jorabin]
RESOLUTION: chairs to determine exact timing of upcoming teleconfs in lead up to TPAC
14:21:15 [jorabin]
Topic: Face to Face
14:21:47 [schuki]
jorabin: natasha?
14:22:20 [jorabin]
first Face to Face at TPAC, Thursday 14th Friday 15th Nov
14:22:25 [schuki]
14:23:37 [Zakim]
14:23:56 [tobie]
Zakim, [ is me
14:23:56 [Zakim]
+tobie; got it
14:24:30 [jorabin]
(Natasha notes the topics that she will be documenting in the wiki)
14:25:08 [jorabin]
Topic: Github
14:25:18 [schuki]
marcosc: we have mentioned this on the mailing list
14:25:26 [schuki]
... we will do work on github with the documents
14:25:37 [schuki]
... some people may not be familar with github
14:25:44 [schuki]
... tobie has some great documentation for this
14:26:03 [schuki]
... we will put the documents and related topic online and manage this via repositories
14:26:09 [tobie]
14:26:24 [schuki]
... at this point we are not in a position to know what the actions are
14:26:33 [schuki]
... but we will get there in the next few weeks
14:26:56 [jorabin]
-> Webmob Github
14:27:26 [schuki]
tobie: i have another doc but it is targetted to testing
14:27:38 [schuki]
... W3C has some good ones, but i don't have more info
14:27:46 [schuki]
dom: I'm not sure of anything
14:28:03 [schuki]
jorabin: if people have a proble please let the chairs know
14:28:06 [tobie]
14:28:38 [jorabin]
(Natasha will be writing about Github on our wiki)
14:29:26 [schuki]
schuki: i will make a wiki page, including both of tobie's links
14:30:05 [jorabin]
Topic: Closing The Gap Report
14:30:19 [schuki]
dom: i sent some emails about this to the lis
14:30:22 [schuki]
14:31:06 [schuki]
dom: I managed a group looking into why the web isn't right for developing apps
14:31:19 [schuki]
... one of my high level expectations for this group is to drive the agenda in this space
14:31:47 [schuki]
... this includes best practices, specs etc.
14:32:26 [schuki]
dom: I have also been adding all the interesting discussions into the gap analysis
14:32:53 [schuki]
... the Taxonomy of Mobile Apps is the document I am working on
14:33:02 [schuki]
... I welcome feedback on this
14:33:28 [schuki]
... I have 3 documents I have to submit to group
14:33:47 [schuki]
... these are frameworks for what makes mobile platform good and bad from user and provider perspective
14:34:08 [schuki]
... the next is applying this to the web as a platform and see where our weaknesses/strengths are and how to get better
14:34:45 [schuki]
... the final one is an analysis of applications, news consumption, media consumption, games etc (all categories) and where the web is strong and where it is weak and how we can improve this
14:35:14 [schuki]
dom: i will be submitting large documents covering these
14:35:36 [schuki]
... I hope these generate discussions so we can move forward on this
14:36:15 [schuki]
jorabin: the final one of those follows on from Matt Kelly's (Facebook) analysis right?
14:36:41 [schuki]
dom: yes, although we will want to start working from app categories rather than specific categories
14:36:59 [schuki]
s/specific categories/specific apps
14:37:58 [jorabin]
schuki notes that the work that Dom is doing is really important for pushing back through W3C ...
14:38:56 [dom]
-> App Type research
14:39:08 [jorabin]
Topic: Standards for Webon Mobile Roadmap
14:39:23 [jorabin]
s/Webin/Web on/
14:39:28 [schuki]
dom: i have been writing this document and releasing every quarter
14:39:29 [dom]
-> Standards for Web on Mobile Roadmap
14:39:44 [jorabin]
14:40:18 [schuki]
dom: it goes through many specs, what implementations exist, what is the status
14:40:59 [schuki]
... the next iteration is scheduled for the end of the month
14:41:08 [schuki]
... which is 5 days away!
14:41:44 [schuki]
... I am using the Highlights to help flesh out the document
14:42:04 [schuki]
... I want to know from this group how you can help me add to this or change this
14:42:21 [schuki]
... please let me know if you think something is missing or you want to add to this
14:43:37 [schuki]
dom: I can keep working on this, but if someone wants to take my place I do not mind!
14:43:51 [schuki]
... but I am fine with continuing it, I am happy to accept help
14:44:03 [schuki]
... I want to know how to make it more useful
14:44:32 [schuki]
jorabin: what are the advantages of this group taking over the document?
14:45:15 [schuki]
dom: if work comes from a W3C group rather than W3C staff the work has a little more credibility
14:45:32 [schuki]
... also if more people are involved then we can move faster as there are more people to help
14:45:42 [Zakim]
14:46:13 [Zakim]
14:46:30 [schuki]
... if the IG adopts the document it could get a balanced view
14:46:40 [jorabin]
zakim, ??P3 is me
14:46:40 [Zakim]
+jorabin; got it
14:47:05 [jorabin]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Webmob agrees to adopt "Standards for Web on Mobile"
14:47:21 [LisaDeLuca_IBM]
+1 support
14:47:35 [dom]
Zakim, who's making noise?
14:47:41 [schuki]
+1 support also
14:47:45 [stakagi]
14:47:47 [Zakim]
dom, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: schuki (51%), jorabin (35%), marcosc (8%)
14:47:49 [Ig_Ibert_Bittencourt]
14:47:53 [dom]
Zakim, mute marcosc
14:47:53 [Zakim]
marcosc should now be muted
14:47:57 [dom]
Zakim, un,mute marcosc
14:47:57 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'un,mute marcosc', dom
14:47:59 [jsmanrique]
14:47:59 [dom]
Zakim, unmute marcosc
14:47:59 [Zakim]
marcosc should no longer be muted
14:48:06 [dom]
Zakim, mute schuki
14:48:06 [Zakim]
schuki should now be muted
14:48:21 [Zakim]
14:48:34 [jorabin]
RESOLUTION: Webmob agrees to adopt "Standards for Web on Mobile"
14:48:45 [Zakim]
14:48:53 [jsmanrique]
Zakim, mute me
14:48:53 [Zakim]
sorry, jsmanrique, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:48:58 [dom]
Zakim, ??P5 is jsmanrique
14:48:58 [Zakim]
+jsmanrique; got it
14:49:00 [dom]
Zakim, mute jsmanrique
14:49:00 [Zakim]
jsmanrique should now be muted
14:49:36 [schuki]
dom: i will let the group know when the next iteration is published
14:49:40 [jorabin]
noting that the next edition is under Dom's supervision as it is next week
14:50:35 [jorabin]
Topic: AOB
14:50:47 [schuki]
dom: I would like to talk about the Taxonomy document
14:50:55 [schuki]
... there has been little feedback on the list
14:51:09 [schuki]
... please let me know if people want to continue working on it
14:51:25 [jorabin]
-> Apps Taxononly
14:51:42 [Ali]
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14:51:42 [dom]
-> Taxonomy of Mobile Application Platforms
14:52:05 [jorabin]
14:52:18 [LisaDeLuca_IBM]
Suggestion: whoever is maintaining the twitter account @w3c_webmob should add links from our calls to twitter. ex. github, tpac meeting, documents for review, etc.
14:52:23 [schuki]
marcosc: I haven't had time to review yet, let's give people some more time to review
14:52:48 [dom]
LisaDeLuca_IBM, that makes plenty of sense indeed
14:53:23 [schuki]
marcosc: the doc is short, so we should be able to read it quickly
14:54:09 [schuki]
dom: the value of this document is when we discuss items such as 'packaged apps', 'native apps', 'webapps' etc we know what we are talking about
14:54:19 [schuki]
... we understand what each other are referring and talking about
14:54:58 [Ig_Ibert_Bittencourt]
I this document is very useful. I will send feedback as soon as possible.
14:54:59 [schuki]
marcosc: I am struggling with the same thing with Sys Apps
14:55:14 [Ig_Ibert_Bittencourt]
14:55:14 [schuki]
... we have been trying to do away with these definitions
14:55:59 [schuki]
dom: we may just need to clarify why we *don't* want to make a distinction in some cases
14:56:13 [schuki]
marcosc: if we can stick to the 'one web' mantra that would be good
14:56:29 [schuki]
marcosc: I can add some things to this too over the next few weeks
14:57:09 [schuki]
jorabin: !
14:57:33 [schuki]
jorabin: thanks all!
14:57:33 [Zakim]
14:57:35 [Zakim]
14:57:36 [Zakim]
14:57:40 [Zakim]
14:57:42 [Zakim]
14:57:44 [Zakim]
14:57:45 [Zakim]
14:57:45 [Zakim]
14:57:46 [Ig_Ibert_Bittencourt]
14:57:46 [Zakim]
UW_()10:00AM has ended
14:57:46 [Zakim]
Attendees were schuki, dom, jorabin, marcosc, +1.415.787.aaaa, +1.908.559.aabb, LisaDeLuca_IBM, DanSun, jsmanrique, stakagi, [IPcaller], tobie
14:57:59 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:57:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate dom
15:01:23 [schuki]
tobie: you care which day I add you to the agenda at TPAC?
15:01:41 [tobie]
I don't yet
15:01:48 [marcosc]
tobie: about native feel of the appstore, is there a standardized equiv to "-webkit-overflow-scrolling: touch;"?
15:02:17 [schuki]
tobie: ok i will just add and then we can always move!
15:02:24 [tobie]
schuki: cool
15:02:46 [tobie]
marcosc: soon hopefully
15:02:48 [marcosc]
tobie: I have my suspicion that the appstore is using things like that to achieve smooth scrolling.
15:03:13 [marcosc]
15:03:36 [marcosc]
tobie... if only there was a group that could help push for those kinds of things...
15:03:37 [tobie]
marcosc: possibly, though the smoothness is essentially a QoI issue
15:05:34 [marcosc]
tobie: sure, this came up during the Edgeconf's performance panel. Developers having to hack around such things (e.g., detecting scroll events) is what causes the issues mostly.
15:06:39 [marcosc]
the issues === not getting a "native" feel.
15:07:13 [tobie]
not getting good enough perf is the real problem
15:08:10 [tobie]
but to your point, the scroll perf issue is both critical and very hard to solve
15:08:23 [tobie]
For the record, it's also difficult to solve on native
15:09:44 [tobie]
15:10:22 [tobie]
"To give another example, we use Core Text to lay out many of our strings, but layout calculations can quickly become a bottleneck. With our new iOS app, when we download new content, we asynchronously calculate the sizes for all these strings, cache our CTFramesetters (which can be expensive to create), and then use all these calculations later when we present the story into our UITableView."
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17:15:28 [schuki]
17:15:38 [schuki]
your thoughts are appreciated!
17:15:44 [schuki]
or just go edit if you wish
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17:39:58 [schuki]
how do i make the pretty blue boxes?!
17:40:01 [schuki]
17:40:13 [schuki]
urgh, no dom
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18:15:28 [marcosc]
schuki: sorry, back... passed out from jet lag
18:16:59 [schuki]
marcosc: yeah i was a new level of exhausted this morning
18:18:24 [marcosc]
schuki: I'm still impressed by your ability to function.
18:18:41 [marcosc]
schuki: what's your secret? Did you sleep on the plane or something?
18:23:26 [schuki]
marcosc: lol no I did a god awful powerpoint on the plane! Slept for about 2 hours
18:23:41 [schuki]
at the moment I'm riding on a ridiculous amoount of coffee
18:23:47 [schuki]
and just ordered pizza
18:23:49 [schuki]
18:24:00 [marcosc]
nice :D
18:24:21 [marcosc]
checking the links above
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18:30:54 [schuki]
marcosc: yeah just go and edit the wiki however you want
18:30:58 [schuki]
no need to check with me
18:31:03 [marcosc]
np, will do
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