14:56:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
14:56:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/25-rdf-wg-irc
14:56:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:56:09 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
14:56:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
14:56:11 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:56:12 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:56:12 <trackbot> Date: 25 September 2013
14:56:23 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: RDF WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.09.25
14:56:39 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
14:56:40 <Zakim> + +1.408.992.aaaa
14:56:47 <pfps> zakim, aaaa is me
14:56:47 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
14:57:14 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber
14:57:14 <Zakim> -Guus_Schreiber
14:57:14 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber
14:57:21 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
14:58:04 <Zakim> +Tobie
14:58:21 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:58:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Guus_Schreiber, Tobie
14:58:29 <Zakim> +GavinC
14:58:33 <AndyS> zakim, I am not tobie
14:58:33 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I am not tobie', AndyS
14:58:41 <AndyS> zakim, tobie is me
14:58:41 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:59:53 <Zakim> + +1.415.686.aabb
14:59:55 <Zakim> +EricP
15:00:03 <gkellogg> zakim, aabb is me
15:00:03 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
15:00:15 <Zakim> -EricP
15:00:19 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
15:00:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Guus_Schreiber, AndyS, GavinC, gkellogg
15:00:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, gavinc, pfps, gkellogg, TallTed, ivan, manu, yvesr, trackbot, sandro, ericP
15:00:24 <Zakim> +EricP
15:01:40 <Zakim> +??P9
15:01:49 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:01:49 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:01:50 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:01:56 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P9 is me
15:01:56 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
15:01:57 <pfps> scribenick pfps
15:02:33 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:03:19 <Guus> chair: Guus
15:03:33 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
15:03:46 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:03:46 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
15:03:47 <pfps> Administration
15:03:47 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
15:03:47 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
15:03:52 <pfps> Minutes of last meeting
15:04:10 <pfps> RESOLVED: accept minutes of last meeting
15:04:24 <pfps> Action Item Review
15:04:24 <trackbot> Error finding 'Item'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.
15:04:46 <gavinc> CLOSE ACTION-294
15:04:46 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-294.
15:05:13 <AndyS> can close action 263
15:05:17 <pfps> Guus:  next meeting is next week
15:05:49 <gavinc>  ends at 2:00 AM on
15:05:51 <gavinc> Sunday, November 3
15:06:00 <gavinc> https://www.google.com/search?q=DST
15:06:03 <gavinc> Yay semantic search ;)
15:06:22 <AndyS> Close ACTION-263
15:06:22 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-263.
15:06:29 <gavinc> Yes, a range of time zone files are wrong :P
15:06:47 <pfps> TRIG
15:06:59 <pfps> Guus:  LCWD of Trig is published
15:07:16 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/TR/trig/
15:07:23 <pfps> Guus:  end of comments 11 October
15:07:24 <AndyS>                      The Last Call period ends 11 October 2013.                                   All comments are welcome.
15:07:59 <pfps> Guus:  all rec-track documents are at least in last call
15:08:04 <pfps> Test suite for Semantics
15:08:16 <pfps> Guus:  no action on writing the test suite
15:08:42 <pfps> pfps:  what is required to make to the changes to bring the test suite up to date
15:08:42 <Zakim> -EricP
15:08:46 <pfps> sandro: I don't know
15:08:57 <Zakim> +EricP
15:09:01 <ivan> For DST: I am sorry, it was the other way round: Europe changes on the 27th of October, and the US changes on the 3rd of November, see http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/2013.html
15:09:10 <gavinc> gkellogg has done all the Syntax ones ;)
15:09:32 <pfps> guus:  andy and gavin have done test suites so they know the new format
15:10:05 <pfps> gavin: there are input and output documents of arbitrary format, described in a description document
15:10:16 <gavinc> s/gavin/gkellogg
15:10:49 <pfps> greg: changing the documents from RDF/XML to turtle or trig might be a good idea
15:11:05 <gavinc> given that there are no semantics for datasets, testing them using data sets sounds... odd
15:11:11 <pfps> sandro: turtle might be better, as that doesn't require doing anything with datasets
15:11:45 <pfps> gregg: entering the old test suite into Mercurial might be a good first step
15:11:48 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:12:19 <pfps> sandro:  I could do a copy into Mercurial from the current CVS situation
15:12:28 <AndyS> Current test suites (lang, RDF 2004) name input and output so TriG not needed.
15:13:12 <ericP> what do we test in semantics that we don't test in turtle?
15:13:13 <Zakim> + +081165aacc
15:13:22 <AZ> Zakim, aacc is me
15:13:22 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
15:13:23 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:13:36 <pfps> sandro:  there was a thread on what changes need to be made to semantics tests
15:13:41 <Zakim> -AZ
15:13:57 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:14:04 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is  me
15:14:04 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:14:50 <pfps> action sandro: put semantics tests into mercurial
15:14:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-298 - Put semantics tests into mercurial [on Sandro Hawke - due 2013-10-02].
15:14:57 <Zakim> +AZ
15:15:03 <Zakim> -EricP
15:15:21 <Zakim> +EricP
15:15:34 <pfps>  guus: tests should be put into good shape soon
15:15:39 <pfps> LC Comments on Concepts, Semantics
15:15:51 <pfps> guus:  issue 142 - sandro you have an action
15:16:16 <pfps> sandro:  the conversation on 142 is ongoing on www-archive
15:16:32 <gkellogg> issue-142?
15:16:32 <trackbot> issue-142 -- rdfs:Graph ? comment -- open
15:16:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/142
15:16:51 <ivan> q+
15:16:56 <pfps> guus:  what happens if there is no agreement - there might be a formal objection
15:17:02 <pfps> sandro: yes
15:17:13 <pfps> guus: we can go forward to CR with an objection
15:17:35 <pfps> sandro: but in the past there has been agreement on the situation, just disagreement on direction
15:17:52 <pfps> sandro:  right now there might not be agreement on situation
15:18:03 <gavinc> +q
15:18:14 <ericP> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Sep/thread#msg55 issue-142 discussion on www-archive
15:18:26 <pfps> sandro: may need to just say that there is no possibility for short-term progress
15:18:38 <ivan> ack ivan
15:19:10 <pfps> ivan:  this situation may become problematic
15:19:34 <pfps> sandro: but the worst outcome would be to require more discussion
15:20:11 <pfps> sandro: comment from paul gross may be related
15:20:26 <AZ> s/gross/groth/
15:21:33 <Guus> ack gavinc
15:21:50 <pfps> eric: jeremy wants a change, paul may just need clarification
15:22:44 <pfps> gavin: i have a response in hand saying that paul's example is acceptable but just needs application-specific processing
15:22:49 <pfps> guus: that's the situation
15:23:26 <pfps> sandro: it might be useful to tell paul more about the situation
15:23:56 <Zakim> +Souri
15:24:12 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-wg
15:24:17 <pfps> action gavin: draft response to paul groth
15:24:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-299 - Draft response to paul groth [on Gavin Carothers - due 2013-10-02].
15:24:28 <gavinc> Zakim, who is talking?
15:24:42 <Zakim> gavinc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus_Schreiber (44%)
15:25:12 <pfps> guus:  by mid-October all LC issues on Concepts and Semantics need to be resolved
15:25:44 <pfps> pfps: a WG response by 2 October would be better
15:26:11 <Zakim> -GavinC
15:26:37 <Zakim> + +1.707.861.aadd
15:26:43 <gavinc> Zakim, aadd is me
15:26:43 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it
15:27:09 <pfps> sandro: guus - can you send a message about the timing issues
15:27:37 <Zakim> -gavinc
15:27:41 <pfps> pfps: what about jeremy's other comment
15:27:57 <pfps> sandro: I think that that is part of the same issue
15:28:01 <Zakim> +gavinc
15:28:15 <pfps> guus:  I'll try to express urgency for everything
15:28:37 <pfps> Dataset Semantics
15:29:00 <pfps> guus: two messages - one from antoine, one from sandro
15:30:19 <pfps> az: the dataset semantics document has a lot of options
15:31:04 <pfps> az: peter commented that there are many other options, this has the options that have been discussed
15:31:24 <pfps> az: i have to respond to peter's comments - no comments from pat yet
15:31:45 <pfps> guus: there is more time to work on notes than rec-track documents, so this is not so time critical
15:32:26 <pfps> guus: sandro - what should be done with your message on dataset semantics?
15:33:10 <pfps> sandro: when I wrote it I thought that it might be part of a note
15:33:18 <pfps> guus: part of antoine's note?
15:33:22 <pfps> sandro: not really
15:33:44 <pfps> az: I haven't completely read sandro's proposal
15:34:15 <pfps> az: I think that it is more about handling datasets that appear on the web, my note is not concerned about this, but could be expanded to there
15:34:57 <pfps> sandro: my note is more about containers, and less about web access
15:35:27 <pfps> guus:  the message is about how to view datasets
15:35:42 <pfps> guus:  if this is to be (part of) a note then the wg has to make a decision
15:36:09 <pfps> guus: antoine, what should next be done for your note - incorporate comments?
15:36:12 <pfps> az: yes
15:36:21 <Arnaud> Arnaud has joined #rdf-wg
15:36:22 <pfps> guus: then there needs to be a formal review
15:36:32 <pfps> guus:  the test suite has more importance
15:36:34 <Zakim> +Arnaud
15:36:36 <pfps> az: agreed
15:36:51 <pfps> Turtle
15:36:58 <pfps> guus: any process on comments
15:37:14 <pfps> gregg: no progress, should be done this week
15:37:23 <pfps> Datatype Semantics
15:37:30 <gkellogg> s/gregg/gavinc/
15:37:32 <gavinc> s/gregg/gavinc
15:37:45 <pfps> guus: message from pat on change to datatype semantics
15:37:45 <gavinc> I guess us north bay folks sound alike?
15:38:04 <pfps> guus: pushback from peter
15:38:52 <pfps> guus:  priority is test suite and getting comments sorted out
15:39:05 <pfps> AOB
15:39:53 <pfps> guus: adjourned
15:39:53 <Zakim> -Arnaud
15:39:58 <Zakim> -Souri
15:39:59 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:40:01 <Zakim> -gavinc
15:40:02 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:40:02 <Zakim> -gkellogg
15:40:03 <Zakim> -AZ
15:40:04 <Zakim> -TallTed
15:40:05 <Arnaud> well, belated regrets
15:40:06 <Zakim> -EricP
15:40:20 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting
15:40:20 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:40:20 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.408.992.aaaa, pfps, Guus_Schreiber, GavinC, AndyS, +1.415.686.aabb, EricP, gkellogg, Ivan, yvesr, Sandro, TallTed, +081165aacc, AZ,
15:40:23 <Zakim> ... Souri, +1.707.861.aadd, Arnaud
15:40:23 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:40:23 <Zakim> -yvesr
15:40:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:40:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/25-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot
15:40:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:40:29 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/25-rdf-wg-actions.rdf :
15:40:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: sandro to put semantics tests into mercurial [1]
15:40:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/25-rdf-wg-irc#T15-14-50
15:40:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: gavin to draft response to paul groth [2]
15:40:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/25-rdf-wg-irc#T15-24-17
15:40:36 <Arnaud> I have a conflict until next week (included) for the first half hour of the call