19:00:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
19:00:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/24-aapi-irc
19:00:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
19:00:41 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
19:00:43 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
19:00:43 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start now
19:00:44 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
19:00:44 <trackbot> Date: 24 September 2013
19:01:23 <clown> RRSAgent:  make log public
19:01:37 <clown> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:01:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/24-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:02:04 <clown> chair:  Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:02:10 <clown> scribenick: clown
19:02:33 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has now started
19:02:40 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
19:02:49 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:02:49 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
19:02:56 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:02:56 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:05:26 <clown> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:05:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/24-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:07:03 <Zakim> +??P6
19:21:26 <clown> rrsagent, off
19:37:00 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:37:39 <clown> agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Sep/0008.html
19:37:52 <clown> topic ACTION-1256
19:37:55 <clown> ACTION-1256?
19:37:55 <trackbot> ACTION-1256 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify msaa+uia express entry for aria-checked on menuitemradio button to use msaa selectable state and selected proerty instead of uia togglepattern. -- due 2013-09-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:37:55 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1256
19:38:10 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_role_table
19:38:26 <clown> JS:  we discussed this last week.
19:38:36 <clown> JS: Cynthia requested changes.
19:38:47 <clown> JS:  I made the changes.  Can you approve of them>
19:39:48 <clown> JS:  <desribes the changes>
19:40:15 <clown> CS:  That looks good, we should probably copy it to the UIA column.
19:40:28 <clown> JS: Can we make that an ARIA 1.1 issue?
19:40:33 <clown> CS:  Yes, let's do that.
19:40:57 <clown> resolved:  close ACTION-1256
19:41:28 <clown> Topic:  ISSUE-612
19:41:33 <clown> ISSUE-612?
19:41:33 <trackbot> ISSUE-612 -- Review ia2/atk rule in group position. should this really determine level based on aria-owns chain. see uaig: http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria-implementation/#mapping_additional_position and test case 69: https://www.w3.org/wai/pf/testharness/testresults?tes -- open
19:41:34 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/612
19:41:44 <clown> JS:  I think this is a david issue, and he's not here.
19:41:51 <clown> JS:  Suggest we postpone this.
19:42:03 <clown> Topic:  ACTION-1255
19:42:07 <clown> ACTION-1255?
19:42:07 <trackbot> ACTION-1255 -- Cynthia Shelly to Look into toggle patterns and how that needs to be modified in the uaig. -- due 2013-09-24 -- OPEN
19:42:07 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1255
19:42:35 <clown> CS:  I was working on it, but I haven't finished it.
19:42:50 <clown> CS:  give me until friday.
19:43:15 <clown> Topic:  ACTION-1257
19:43:15 <clown> 
19:43:19 <clown> ACTION-1257?
19:43:19 <trackbot> ACTION-1257 -- Cynthia Shelly to Check the ie10 and ie11 to see how they map the treegrid role. -- due 2013-09-24 -- OPEN
19:43:19 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1257
19:43:44 <clown> CS:  Not done yet.
19:43:59 <clown> CS:  move to Friday also.
19:44:26 <clown> Topci:  ACTION-1219
19:44:28 <clown> ACTION-1219?
19:44:28 <trackbot> ACTION-1219 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to UAIG: passive RFC requirement: two instances of "The state change events MAY be trimmed out for performance" Who is this requirement for? Authors? UA? AT? Be specific. What does "trimmed out" mean? Be specific. -- due 2013-05-14 -- OPEN
19:44:29 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1219
19:44:50 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_events_selection
19:45:17 <clown> JS:  It's the second table dealing with multiselectable containers.
19:45:33 <clown> JS: Suggesting for the third cell in the MSAA column
19:45:43 <clown> "User agent MAY fire a EVENT_OBJECT_SELECTIONWITHIN. If this event is fired the other events noted above MAY be trimmed out for performance."
19:46:39 <clown> CS:  I think I'm okay with that, but just check with David.
19:46:47 <clown> JS:  I  will check with david and alex.
19:47:05 <clown> The user agent MAY fire a single object::selection_changed on the container vs. multiple for performance reasons
19:47:27 <clown> CS:  Sounds fine to me.
19:47:37 <clown> CS:  I remember it was david who cared a lot about these.
19:47:46 <davidb> davidb has joined #aapi
19:49:52 <clown> Topic:  ACTION-1262
19:49:57 <clown> ACTION-1262?
19:49:57 <trackbot> ACTION-1262 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Update 4.1. focus states and events table to clarify differences between platforms and dom/desktop/at focus. http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria-implementation/#focus_state_event_table -- due 2013-09-23 -- OPEN
19:49:58 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1262
19:50:15 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#focus_state_event_table
19:50:37 <clown> JS:  James Craig was intially against these events because he thought there were dom focus events.
19:50:58 <clown> JS:  I explained that for MSAA, UIA, and ATK/AT-SPI, that these are aapi focus events.
19:51:13 <clown> JS: he wants that made perferectly clear.
19:51:37 <clown> JS:  He also says that there is no distinction on the Mac under OS X a11y API.
19:52:20 <clown> CS:  I think that we actually should throw DOM events.
19:52:33 <clown> CS:  But it doesn't work this way.
19:52:49 <cyns> CS: I know that's not what's in ARIA 1.0, however
19:52:56 <clown> JS:  I think this is for the active descendant...
19:53:19 <cyns> CS: So, if James wants a modification to the mac column, I'm ok with that
19:53:52 <clown> JS:  Actually, I think this is ambiguous:  if it is an actve descendant scenario, these are aapi events.  If a tabindex scenario, then DOM focus and these AAPI focus events are in sync.
19:55:47 <clown> CS:  Doesn't the table already say, in the opening sentence, that these are a11y api events?
19:55:50 <clown> JS:  Good point.
19:56:53 <clown> CS:  Ask James to propose text.  It seems really clear to me already.
19:58:50 <cyns> CS:  if the problem is that AAPI and DOM events are the same thing on Mac, maybe the right answer is for the Mac column to say "no mapping" or "no event"
19:59:12 <cyns> CS: these events are separate on teh other platforms, and devs on those platforms won't be confused.
19:59:34 <cyns> CS: we could add a redundant sentence before the table, though I do think it's quite clear already
20:00:05 <clown> JS:  Okay.  I will bring it up at next Monday's call (if time).
20:02:25 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
20:02:30 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
20:02:51 <clown> zakim Microsoft is Cynthia_Shelly
20:02:59 <clown> zakim, Microsoft is Cynthia_Shelly
20:02:59 <Zakim> sorry, clown, I do not recognize a party named 'Microsoft'
20:03:26 <clown> RRSAgent:  logging off
20:03:26 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'logging off', clown.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
20:03:44 <clown> RRSAgent:  off
20:04:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/24-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:04:36 <clown> regrests:  David_Bolter
20:04:45 <clown> regrets:  David_Bolter
20:05:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/24-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:05:45 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:05:45 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has ended
20:05:45 <Zakim> Attendees were Joseph_Scheuhammer, Michael_Cooper, [Microsoft]
20:06:22 <clown> zakim, please part
20:06:22 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:06:50 <clown> present+ Cynthia_Shelly
20:06:59 <clown> present- Microsoft
20:07:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/24-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:07:23 <clown> present- [Microsoft]
20:07:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/24-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:08:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/24-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:08:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/24-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:09:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/24-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:10:24 <clown> s/Can you approve of them>/Can you approve of them?/
20:10:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/24-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:12:43 <clown> s/desribes the/describes the/
20:12:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/24-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:13:12 <clown> s/regrests: David_Bolter//
20:13:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/24-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:18:39 <clown> clown has joined #aapi
20:18:43 <clown> rrsagent, please part
20:18:43 <RRSAgent> I see no action items