13:33:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:33:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-dap-irc
13:33:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:33:07 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
13:33:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:33:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 27 minutes
13:33:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference
13:33:10 <trackbot> Date: 19 September 2013
13:47:59 <fjh> fjh has joined #dap
13:48:28 <fjh> trackbot, start telecon
13:48:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:48:32 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:48:32 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
13:48:33 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference
13:48:33 <trackbot> Date: 19 September 2013
13:51:46 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Sep/0027.html
13:52:04 <fjh> Chair: Frederick_Hirsch
13:52:08 <fjh> Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
13:54:44 <fjh> Regrets+ Josh_Soref, Jean-Claude_Dufourd, Rich_Tibbett
13:55:00 <fjh> ScribeNick: fjh
13:55:57 <fjh> fjh has changed the topic to: dap 3279 ; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Sep/0027.html
13:58:22 <igarashi> igarashi has joined #dap
14:00:06 <ldeluca> ldeluca has joined #dap
14:01:13 <igarashi> ok
14:02:29 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
14:02:37 <Zakim> +??P12
14:02:38 <dom> Zakim, ??P12 is me
14:02:40 <Zakim> +dom; got it
14:02:42 <Zakim> +??P13
14:02:49 <anssik> zakim, ??P13 is me
14:02:49 <Zakim> +anssik; got it
14:03:03 <Zakim> + +1.858.750.aaaa
14:03:04 <gmandyam> gmandyam has joined #dap
14:03:13 <anssik> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:03:15 <Zakim> + +1.415.828.aabb
14:03:30 <Claes> Claes has joined #dap
14:03:41 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:03:44 <Zakim> + +46.1.08.01.aacc
14:03:46 <fjh> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:03:46 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
14:03:54 <dom> Zakim, aabb is probably gmandyam
14:03:54 <Zakim> +gmandyam?; got it
14:04:06 <gmandyam> aabb is not gmandyam
14:04:18 <Claes> zakim, aacc is me
14:04:18 <Zakim> +Claes; got it
14:04:20 <ldeluca> Present+ Lisa_DeLuca
14:04:32 <dom> Zakim, aabb is really ldeluca
14:04:32 <Zakim> sorry, dom, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
14:04:44 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:04:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see dom, anssik, +1.858.750.aaaa, gmandyam?, fjh, Claes
14:04:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see Claes, gmandyam, ldeluca, igarashi, fjh, Zakim, RRSAgent, tobie, dom, mounir, Josh_Soref, anssik, slightlyoff, trackbot
14:04:45 <dom> Zakim, gmandyam is really ldeluca
14:04:45 <Zakim> +ldeluca; got it
14:04:56 <fjh> zakim, where is 858?
14:04:56 <Zakim> North American dialing code 1.858 is California
14:04:58 <gmandyam> Zakim, aaaa is gmandyam
14:04:58 <Zakim> +gmandyam; got it
14:04:58 <ldeluca> ldeluca, 415 area code (first time here) 5001 is last 4 of my dialin number
14:05:09 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:05:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see dom, anssik, gmandyam, ldeluca, fjh, Claes
14:05:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see Claes, gmandyam, ldeluca, igarashi, fjh, Zakim, RRSAgent, tobie, dom, mounir, Josh_Soref, anssik, slightlyoff, trackbot
14:05:37 <Zakim> +??P21
14:05:48 <dom> Zakim, ??P21 is igarashi
14:05:48 <Zakim> +igarashi; got it
14:06:11 <Claes> Present+ Claes_Nilsson
14:06:21 <dom> Present+ Tatsuya_Igarashi
14:06:26 <dom> Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:06:27 <fjh> Topic: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements
14:06:39 <fjh> IBM joined group, Lisa Seacat DeLuca, welcome.
14:07:24 <fjh> ldeluca: interested as there is interest in Device APIs and possible relationship to Cordova
14:07:41 <dom> q+
14:07:42 <fjh> fjh: possibility of participating in testing, interop
14:08:11 <fjh> ldeluca: maybe later, especially interested in vibration
14:08:24 <fjh> dom: I've been looking into possible convergence with Cordova, so it is great to have you in the group
14:08:34 <fjh> … have been talking with people at adobe on this topic
14:08:54 <fjh> q?
14:08:58 <fjh> q-
14:09:10 <dom> -> http://cordova.apache.org/ Apache Cordova (Phonegap opensource face)
14:09:28 <fjh> Topic: Minutes approval
14:09:30 <ldeluca> thanks @dom
14:09:36 <fjh> Approve minutes from 4 September 2013
14:09:37 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Sep/att-0013/minutes-2013-09-04.html
14:09:44 <fjh> RESOLUTION: Minutes from 4 September 2013 are approved
14:09:53 <fjh> Topic: Proximity and Light
14:10:02 <fjh> CfC concluded, next step is to publish
14:10:06 <ldeluca> http://cordova.apache.org/docs/en/3.0.0/ that's the url to the cordova APIs
14:10:36 <fjh> fjh: I will send transition requests for CR today
14:14:25 <fjh> anssi: am preparing drafts ready  for CR publication, have updated with implementation links, running link checker and pub rules, should have later today
14:14:33 <fjh> … what should crEnd be
14:14:51 <fjh> fjh: doesn't really matter since we know it will take longer to exit CR but 9 weeks is fine
14:15:11 <fjh> dom: used to be needed to set implementer deadline expectations but not really a concern here, 9 weeks should be fine
14:15:23 <fjh> fjh: can we plan to have transition call next week
14:15:39 <fjh> dom: need transition request first, if we wait it will be longer
14:15:43 <fjh> fjh: will send after meeting
14:16:03 <fjh> anssik: will set date for 1 Oct for now
14:16:13 <fjh> dom: exact date not essential for approval
14:16:30 <fjh> Topic: Vibration API
14:16:36 <fjh> already in CR but getting comments
14:17:07 <fjh> fjh: I believe AnssiK you are still reviewing these items
14:17:28 <fjh> ISSUE-146?
14:17:28 <trackbot> ISSUE-146 -- Add vibration strength control -- open
14:17:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/146
14:17:36 <fjh> ISSUE-149?
14:17:36 <trackbot> ISSUE-149 -- handling of long vibration list - truncate or no vibration at all -- open
14:17:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/149
14:17:41 <fjh> ISSUE-150?
14:17:41 <trackbot> ISSUE-150 -- Should vibration be additive when multiple instances, e.g. iframes -- open
14:17:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/150
14:18:11 <fjh> fjh: I believe we've agreed to defer ISSUE-146 to v.next
14:18:22 <fjh> … but need to formalize that and be clear that is correct
14:19:18 <fjh> anssik: looking at spec to see if ISSUE-149 already allowed
14:19:29 <fjh> fjh: text may need explicit clarification
14:21:12 <fjh> anssi: not sure whether it is better to fail or succeed with clarity
14:21:20 <fjh> fjh: alternative is graceful degradation
14:22:38 <fjh> … I think Daniel has a good point
14:22:50 <fjh> anssi: getting something rather than silence might be better, agreed
14:22:56 <fjh> fjh: think it might be simpler for applications
14:23:33 <lgombos_> lgombos_ has joined #dap
14:23:49 <fjh> anssik: fairly simple to modify text to say this
14:24:26 <fjh> anssik: only return false if page hidden , daniel suggests we prune pattern length and entry length
14:25:31 <fjh> fjh: seems partial failure better than absolute failure
14:26:29 <fjh> action: dom to review ISSUE-149 get input on tradeoff of either failing or offering partial result (not all of request)
14:26:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-658 - Review issue-149 get input on tradeoff of either failing or offering partial result (not all of request) [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2013-09-26].
14:27:02 <fjh> ISSUE-150?
14:27:02 <trackbot> ISSUE-150 -- Should vibration be additive when multiple instances, e.g. iframes -- open
14:27:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/150
14:27:27 <fjh> fjh: I think this was resolved on list to be a union
14:27:52 <fjh> fjh: I believe next step is to update spec
14:28:11 <fjh> … and share a diff
14:28:57 <fjh> fjh: I don't think we need to go back to LC, only if substantive change that impacts implementions
14:29:28 <fjh> fjh: we should revisit once changes are in spec, but suspect we don't need another LC
14:29:59 <fjh> anssik: dealing with under specified edge cases are clarifications, no need for LC
14:30:03 <fjh> dom: agree
14:30:35 <fjh> Topic: Network Service Discovery
14:31:18 <fjh> fjh: we've been working on WD publication, have been doing various publication corrections, expect to publish soon
14:31:37 <fjh> Web & TV IG review, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Aug/0063.html
14:31:45 <fjh> fjh: will share once we publish
14:32:35 <fjh> fjh: expect that we might not meet every of their requirements, would like to see them review and indicate if any significant concerns
14:32:43 <fjh> ISSUE-130?
14:32:43 <trackbot> ISSUE-130 -- Enable variety of protocols (e.g. UPnP, Bonour) with protocol independent developer code -- open
14:32:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/130
14:33:35 <fjh> discussed earlier need to continue on list
14:33:40 <fjh> ISSUE-131?
14:33:40 <trackbot> ISSUE-131 -- Support UPnP device discovery by Device Type? -- open
14:33:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/131
14:33:52 <Zakim> +Cathy
14:34:09 <fjh> we have proposal on the list, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Sep/0025.html
14:35:38 <fjh> cathy: agree with proposal, still have some additional details
14:36:01 <fjh> fjh: need to check with Rich to see if any other concern
14:36:32 <fjh> cathy: if Igarashi is good with it I think we are ok
14:36:48 <fjh> … we also need jean-claude to look at it
14:37:01 <fjh> fjh: I'll ping them on the list
14:37:28 <Cathy> Cathy has joined #dap
14:38:11 <fjh> fjh: is there anything else cathy that we should discuss today
14:38:18 <fjh> cathy: no we are waiting on actions, jean-claude has one, we also need spec update
14:38:26 <fjh> fjh: which spec updates needed
14:38:41 <fjh> cathy: service name with friendly nick needs to be done
14:39:16 <fjh> fjh: if you can share a list of outstanding spec updates on the list that would help
14:39:57 <fjh> issues list http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/open
14:40:17 <fjh> Topic: Web Notifications Last Call
14:40:25 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Sep/0024.html
14:40:34 <fjh> fjh: would anyone like to volunteer to review this?
14:41:08 <fjh> action: fjh to review Web Notifications Last Call specification
14:41:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-659 - Review web notifications last call specification [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-09-26].
14:41:24 <fjh> fjh: will see if others not on the call are interested as well
14:41:37 <fjh> Topic: Action Review
14:42:02 <fjh> ACTION-523?
14:42:02 <trackbot> ACTION-523 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Work on test cases for battery, vibration, and HTML Media Capture -- due 2012-08-31 -- OPEN
14:42:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523
14:42:37 <fjh> anssik: progress is happening, our developers are submitting patches against specification
14:43:35 <fjh> s/specification/submitted test cases/
14:43:51 <fjh> dom: has marcos responded to suggestions from your team?
14:44:01 <fjh> anssik: have not seen anything
14:44:10 <fjh> dom: using marcos fork
14:44:19 <fjh> … could make pull request against marcos fork
14:44:35 <fjh> … also could merge marcos submission as is and work on top of it
14:44:50 <fjh> … process is not quite entirely clear so we can do what we need to
14:45:05 <fjh> … maybe you should see what your team suggests
14:45:18 <fjh> anssik: started with submitting pull request
14:45:24 <fjh> … need to get marcos involved
14:45:44 <Cathy> Present+ Cathy_Chan
14:45:45 <fjh> fjh: i suggest you start by getting marcos involved
14:46:00 <fjh> dom: pull request against my fork...
14:46:17 <fjh> anssik: i instructed qa person to go against dom fork
14:46:33 <fjh> dom: ok but if that doesn't  work then I'll help
14:48:23 <fjh> anssik: once we've done this we need to update instructions
14:48:54 <fjh> ACTION-642?
14:48:54 <trackbot> ACTION-642 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to Review proximity and ambient light test cases -- due 2013-09-18 -- OPEN
14:48:54 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/642
14:49:06 <fjh> dom: still open
14:49:17 <fjh> anssik: our team is also doing this
14:49:28 <fjh> ACTION-645?
14:49:28 <trackbot> ACTION-645 -- Frederick Hirsch to Share Network Service Discovery editors draft with PING -- due 2013-07-31 -- OPEN
14:49:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/645
14:49:44 <fjh> fjh: deferring involving PING until I feel the draft is sufficiently stalbe
14:49:53 <fjh> s/stalbe/stable/
14:51:02 <fjh> fjh: we probably should first clarify the model and boundaries of reveiw
14:51:18 <fjh> ACTION-652?
14:51:18 <trackbot> ACTION-652 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Make proposal on list regarding multiple vibration api invocations in frames for vibration -- due 2013-09-11 -- OPEN
14:51:18 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/652
14:52:20 <fjh> ISSUE-150?
14:52:20 <trackbot> ISSUE-150 -- Should vibration be additive when multiple instances, e.g. iframes -- open
14:52:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/150
14:52:21 <Zakim> -Claes
14:52:42 <lgombos_> lgombos_ has joined #dap
14:53:06 <fjh> ACTION-654?
14:53:06 <trackbot> ACTION-654 -- Jean-Claude Dufourd to Propose text for network service discovery to define wildcard api and feature detection -- due 2013-09-11 -- OPEN
14:53:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/654
14:53:15 <fjh> ACTION-655?
14:53:15 <trackbot> ACTION-655 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Update test for light :https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/rev/916dbd5920d8 -- due 2013-09-11 -- OPEN
14:53:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/655
14:53:28 <fjh> ACTION-656?
14:53:28 <trackbot> ACTION-656 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Update proximity test for https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/rev/a6ad49819c41 -- due 2013-09-11 -- OPEN
14:53:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/656
14:53:44 <fjh> anssik: our qa is looking at these both and will have to do pull requests, still open
14:55:41 <anssik> https://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/submissions/126/ambient-light/
14:55:47 <fjh> anssik: do we need to link to submissions in CR draft
14:56:00 <fjh> fjh: we need link to test case and interop document/wiki, can expect changes
14:57:09 <fjh> … does not need to be in CR draft itself but linked document
14:57:27 <fjh> dom: needs to be in interop document, can be mostly empty at this time
14:58:53 <fjh> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/Main_Page
15:01:03 <fjh> ACTION-657?
15:01:03 <trackbot> ACTION-657 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Revise battery tests for idlharness, find qa person to help -- due 2013-09-11 -- OPEN
15:01:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/657
15:01:22 <fjh> anssik: have qa person working on this
15:01:36 <fjh> ACTION-646 closed
15:01:36 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-646.
15:01:41 <fjh> ACTION-653 closed
15:01:42 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-653.
15:01:53 <fjh> ACTION-646?
15:01:53 <trackbot> ACTION-646 -- Frederick Hirsch to Organize joint call with web and tv group re network service discovery -- due 2013-08-21 -- CLOSED
15:01:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/646
15:01:57 <fjh> ACTION-653?
15:01:57 <trackbot> ACTION-653 -- Frederick Hirsch to Create issues for vibration questions -- due 2013-09-11 -- CLOSED
15:01:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/653
15:02:20 <fjh> Topic: Issue Review
15:02:37 <fjh> I believe all issues are recorded, if not please add issue or indicate on list
15:03:01 <Zakim> -gmandyam
15:03:14 <fjh> Topic: Network Information API
15:03:26 <fjh> reviewing whether or not to shelve, please indicate if any input
15:04:34 <fjh> anssik: we would like to look at it
15:05:23 <fjh> action: anssik to determine interest in progressing Network Information API or not
15:05:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-660 - Determine interest in progressing network information api or not [on Anssi Kostiainen - due 2013-09-26].
15:06:05 <fjh> anssik: will get some feedback within a couple of weeks
15:06:38 <dom> Zakim, who's noisy?
15:06:49 <Zakim> dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: anssik (51%), fjh (50%)
15:07:10 <Zakim> -Cathy
15:08:18 <fjh> Topic: Any Other Business
15:09:20 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:09:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see dom, anssik, ldeluca, fjh, igarashi
15:09:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see lgombos_, ldeluca, igarashi, fjh, Zakim, RRSAgent, tobie, dom, mounir, Josh_Soref, anssik, slightlyoff, trackbot
15:09:40 <Zakim> -dom
15:09:41 <Zakim> -ldeluca
15:09:42 <fjh> None
15:09:43 <Zakim> -anssik
15:09:45 <fjh> Topic: Adjoirn
15:09:54 <fjh> s/Adjoirn/Adjourn/
15:09:54 <Zakim> -igarashi
15:10:00 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:10:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:10:39 <fjh> s/aabb is not gmandyam//
15:10:46 <fjh> s/ok//
15:10:54 <fjh> s/ldeluca, 415 area code (first time here) 5001 is last 4 of my dialin number//
15:12:34 <fjh> s/Any Other Business/Other Business/
15:12:39 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:12:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/19-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:12:55 <Zakim> -fjh
15:12:57 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
15:12:57 <Zakim> Attendees were dom, anssik, +1.858.750.aaaa, +1.415.828.aabb, +46.1.08.01.aacc, fjh, gmandyam?, Claes, ldeluca, gmandyam, igarashi, Cathy
17:26:34 <fjh> fjh has joined #dap