14:57:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
14:57:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/18-rdf-wg-irc
14:57:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:57:45 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
14:57:47 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
14:57:47 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:48 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:57:48 <trackbot> Date: 18 September 2013
14:58:29 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
14:58:29 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, Guus
14:58:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Guus, pchampin, AndyS, gavinc, TallTed, yvesr, manu, trackbot, sandro, ericP
15:00:26 <Guus> no participants :(
15:01:11 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
15:01:11 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'IPCaller'
15:01:14 <TallTed> Zakim, this is rdf
15:01:14 <Zakim> ok, TallTed; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
15:01:18 <TallTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:01:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, +1.661.748.aaaa, OpenLink_Software
15:01:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Guus, pchampin, AndyS, gavinc, TallTed, yvesr, manu, trackbot, sandro, ericP
15:01:27 <TallTed> zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:01:27 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
15:01:28 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
15:01:29 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
15:01:33 <Zakim> +GavinC
15:01:35 <Zakim> - +1.661.748.aaaa
15:02:08 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:09 <Zakim> -Guest P5 73394
15:02:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:47 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me
15:02:47 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:02:48 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/mid/8fff5ca3-3728-4276-8d7d-2c7fb98443b2@default
15:03:28 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
15:03:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, TallTed (muted), GavinC, AndyS
15:03:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Guus, pchampin, AndyS, gavinc, TallTed, yvesr, manu, trackbot, sandro, ericP
15:03:41 <zwu2> zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
15:04:03 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:05:37 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
15:06:17 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-wg
15:06:20 <Zakim> +Souri
15:06:25 <pfps> zakim, gvoice is me
15:06:25 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
15:06:45 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-wg
15:07:17 <Zakim> +EricP
15:08:31 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:08:35 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:08:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, TallTed (muted), GavinC, AndyS, Sandro, pfps, Souri, EricP
15:09:06 <ericP> Zakim, who's making noise?
15:09:17 <Zakim> ericP, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: GavinC (12%), Guus_Schreiber (13%)
15:09:32 <Zakim> + +1.619.663.aabb
15:09:48 <zwu2> zakim, +1.619.663.aabb is me
15:09:48 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it
15:10:00 <pfps> minutes were fine
15:10:15 <Zakim> + +081165aacc
15:10:23 <AZ> Zakim, aacc is me
15:10:23 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
15:10:26 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: RDF WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.09.18
15:10:30 <pfps> zakim, who is talking
15:10:30 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is talking', pfps
15:10:39 <pfps> zakim, who is making noise?
15:10:43 <TallTed> past minutes -- https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-09-11
15:10:50 <Zakim> pfps, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus_Schreiber (14%), EricP (24%)
15:11:50 <AZ> I completed ACTION-209: Write a WG Note on RDF dataset semantics
15:12:15 <ericP> RESOLVED: accept https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-09-11 as a record of the meeting of the 11 September meeting
15:13:04 <gavinc> CLOSE ACTION-284
15:13:04 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-284.
15:13:11 <ericP> topic: TriG
15:13:57 <ericP> sandro: i'm satisfied with the doc going to LC and skipping CR
15:14:43 <ericP> Souri: at one point we said a GRAPH statement associates a pair of (IRI, RDF Graph)
15:15:22 <ericP> ... if we say a GRAPH statement has two parts (label, graph), we can say the label can be a bnode or an IRI
15:16:09 <ericP> gavinc: re: GRAPH statement, I've written it a couple times but never managed to avoid making it controversial
15:16:27 <AndyS> section 2.2 ... and it needs a tweak about {} - I'll fix.
15:16:49 <ericP> ... RDF Semantics goes out of its way to not say what are the things on the left and right
15:17:22 <ericP> ... there's really no pairing 'cause you can see the same GRAPH X later which will add to the associated graph
15:17:54 <ericP> ... comments from Souri and sandro are in there. passes pubrules, ready to go
15:17:55 <Zakim> +??P5
15:18:02 <pchampin> zakim, ??P5 is me
15:18:02 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
15:18:25 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
15:18:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, TallTed (muted), GavinC, AndyS, Sandro, pfps, Souri, EricP, zwu2, AZ, pchampin
15:18:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see AZ, Souri, pfps, zwu2, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, pchampin, AndyS, gavinc, TallTed, yvesr, manu, trackbot, sandro, ericP
15:18:31 <ericP> AndyS: yeah, we have to say that the right is *part of* a graph
15:19:12 <ericP> Souri: i think that calling the left side a "label" will help
15:19:25 <ericP> AndyS: is this a comment about TriG or Comments?
15:19:41 <ericP> Souri: just trying to make it easier to be objective
15:19:48 <gavinc> s/Comments/Concepts
15:19:51 <Guus> scribe: @ericP
15:20:55 <AndyS> I'm looking at https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-concepts/index.html#
15:21:31 <ericP> [AndyS finds "label" in RDF Concepts for generalized RDF Dataset]
15:21:38 <AndyS> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/trig/index.html
15:21:39 <gavinc> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/drafts/trig/Overview.html
15:22:32 <gavinc> Publication ready documents go in drafts, that's generated by phantomjs respec2html.js http://localhost/~gavin/rdf-wg/trig/index.html drafts/trig/Overview.html
15:22:46 <AZ> Zakim, who is noisy?
15:22:52 <ericP> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/drafts/trig/Overview.html#grammar-production-PN_LOCAL is missing a set of ()s
15:23:01 <Zakim> AZ, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus_Schreiber (53%), Souri (49%), EricP (59%)
15:23:50 <gavinc> (PN_CHARS_U | ':' | [0-9] | PLX) ((PN_CHARS | '.' | ':' | PLX)* PN_CHARS | ':' | PLX)?
15:24:16 <ericP> (PN_CHARS_U | ':' | [0-9] | PLX) ((PN_CHARS | '.' | ':' | PLX)* PN_CHARS | ':' | PLX)?
15:24:22 <ericP> (PN_CHARS_U | ':' | [0-9] | PLX) ((PN_CHARS | '.' | ':' | PLX)* (PN_CHARS | ':' | PLX))?
15:25:23 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/#grammar-production-PN_LOCAL
15:27:06 <gavinc> ACTION Gavin to change  (PN_CHARS_U | ':' | [0-9] | PLX) ((PN_CHARS | '.' | ':' | PLX)* PN_CHARS | ':' | PLX)? to (PN_CHARS_U | ':' | [0-9] | PLX) ((PN_CHARS | '.' | ':' | PLX)* (PN_CHARS | ':' | PLX))?
15:27:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-294 - Change  (pn_chars_u | ':' | [0-9] | plx) ((pn_chars | '.' | ':' | plx)* pn_chars | ':' | plx)? to (pn_chars_u | ':' | [0-9] | plx) ((pn_chars | '.' | ':' | plx)* (pn_chars | ':' | plx))? [on Gavin Carothers - due 2013-09-25].
15:29:13 <ericP> U+xx
15:29:17 <ericP> U+00xx
15:30:41 <ericP> noting that https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/d4c9c7296f9d/trig/trig.bnf already as the parens in "[168s] PN_LOCAL ::= ( PN_CHARS_U | ':' | [0-9] | PLX ) ( ( PN_CHARS | '.' | ':' | PLX )*  ( PN_CHARS | ':' | PLX ) ) ?"
15:31:24 <ericP> PROPOSED: moving https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/drafts/trig/Overview.html to LC with the intention of skipping CR
15:31:28 <gavinc> " The Last Call period ends 11 October 2013"
15:31:36 <ericP> +1
15:31:37 <pfps> +1
15:31:37 <pchampin> +1
15:31:39 <AndyS> subject to ACTION-294
15:31:53 <AndyS> +1
15:31:56 <gavinc> +1
15:31:57 <TallTed> +1
15:31:58 <zwu2> +1
15:31:59 <Guus> +1
15:32:01 <Souri> +1
15:32:04 <AZ> +1
15:32:21 <ericP> RESOLVED: moving https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/drafts/trig/Overview.html to LC with the intention of skipping CR
15:32:29 <Arnaud> Arnaud has joined #rdf-wg
15:32:41 <Zakim> +Arnaud
15:33:05 <ericP> Guus: calculating expected pub date, we have a 3 week LC period
15:33:19 <ericP> ... any comments on that?
15:33:22 <ericP> [none]
15:37:11 <ericP> ACTION: gavinc to set the LC period to end on 11 October 2013 , presuming no delays in publication after 20 Sept (two days hence)
15:37:11 <trackbot> Error finding 'gavinc'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.
15:37:20 <ericP> ACTION: gavin to set the LC period to end on 11 October 2013 , presuming no delays in publication after 20 Sept (two days hence)
15:37:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-295 - Set the lc period to end on 11 october 2013 , presuming no delays in publication after 20 sept (two days hence) [on Gavin Carothers - due 2013-09-25].
15:38:40 <ericP> topic: LC Comments on Concepts, Semantics
15:39:26 <ericP> Guus, jjc has proposed http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-comments/2013Sep/0017.html
15:39:48 <ericP> sandro: i believe discussion has moved on since those proposals
15:40:53 <ericP> ... i raised some issues. he responded positively, but not in archived mail
15:40:59 <pfps> is there a pointer to the -archives messages?
15:42:58 <pfps> q+
15:43:13 <ericP> sandro: these proposals are not my favorite (my fave being the one Greg disliked two days ago)
15:43:35 <ericP> Guus: what don't you like about jjc's?
15:43:56 <ericP> sandro: i don't see them as harmful but i don't see them improving things
15:44:45 <ericP> pfps: i don't think that sentence sais anything (and jjc does 'cause he says it's normative), then it's normative
15:45:07 <ericP> ... if it *does* say something, it's saying that *the* IRI of the graph is where it is
15:45:48 <ericP> ... this implies that if you publish a graph at an IRI, that's the name of the graph
15:46:15 <ericP> q+ to provide a screw case
15:46:30 <pchampin> q+ to propose a counter argument
15:46:32 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:46:32 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
15:47:22 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
15:47:22 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
15:47:27 <ericP> sandro: agree with pfps and think that it either muddies the waters or says something we don't expect
15:48:24 <AZ> Zakim, who is noisy?
15:48:35 <Zakim> AZ, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus_Schreiber (37%), AndyS (24%), EricP (81%)
15:48:36 <pchampin> q-
15:48:38 <ericP> ... patH, jjc and I appear to have arrived at the concensus that we need to add metadata to a graph at one location without applying the same metadata about all identical graphs
15:49:04 <pfps> q-
15:49:22 <Guus> ack ericP
15:49:22 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to provide a screw case
15:51:58 <ericP> sandro: maybe by next week, we'll have reached consensus with jjc or agreed to disagree
15:52:38 <ericP> AndyS: will someone bring the resolution back to the WG?
15:53:16 <pfps> q+
15:53:59 <ericP> ACTION: sandro to let the WG know where this conversation stands on Tuesday morning
15:53:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-296 - Let the wg know where this conversation stands on tuesday morning [on Sandro Hawke - due 2013-09-25].
15:54:01 <pfps> q-
15:54:16 <ericP> topic: Test suite for Semantics
15:54:26 <ericP> Guus: everyone did their actions
15:54:41 <ericP> ... there's a long thread that needs to be turned into actual test code
15:54:51 <ericP> pfps: who knows how to put this in the right places?
15:55:18 <ericP> sandro: i think we want to copy the old CVS/webspace test suite into mercurial
15:55:42 <ericP> ... i haven't compared that [the old] manifest to our current tests
15:56:33 <AZ> I can try doing this
15:58:12 <Guus> ACTION: Antoine to write Semantics tests with help of Sandro
15:58:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-297 - Write semantics tests with help of sandro [on Antoine Zimmermann - due 2013-09-25].
15:58:36 <ericP> topic: Dataset Semantics
15:58:49 <ericP> sandro: i think this is the same discussion as with jjc
15:59:22 <ericP> ... i believe greg would -1 the note i have in mind
16:00:00 <ericP> pfps: note that PatH's message in the agenda is about data *type* semantics
16:00:10 <ericP> Guus: my error
16:00:29 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:00:36 <Zakim> -Souri
16:00:37 <Zakim> -GavinC
16:00:38 <Zakim> -Arnaud
16:00:40 <ericP> ADJOURNED
16:00:41 <Zakim> -AZ
16:00:43 <Zakim> -TallTed
16:00:45 <gavinc> Publication request away!
16:00:47 <Zakim> -zwu2
16:00:48 <Zakim> -EricP
16:00:48 <Zakim> -pfps
16:00:51 <Zakim> -pchampin
16:00:57 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:00:57 <Zakim> -Guus_Schreiber
16:00:57 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
16:00:57 <Zakim> Attendees were Guus_Schreiber, +1.661.748.aaaa, TallTed, GavinC, AndyS, Sandro, Souri, pfps, EricP, zwu2, +081165aacc, AZ, pchampin, Arnaud
16:01:00 <gavinc> CLOSE ACTION-295
16:01:01 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-295.
16:01:10 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting
16:01:10 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:01:11 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:01:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:01:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/18-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot
16:01:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:01:19 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/18-rdf-wg-actions.rdf :
16:01:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: gavinc to set the LC period to end on 11 October 2013 , presuming no delays in publication after 20 Sept (two days hence) [1]
16:01:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/18-rdf-wg-irc#T15-37-11
16:01:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: gavin to set the LC period to end on 11 October 2013 , presuming no delays in publication after 20 Sept (two days hence) [2]
16:01:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/18-rdf-wg-irc#T15-37-20
16:01:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: sandro to let the WG know where this conversation stands on Tuesday morning [3]
16:01:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/18-rdf-wg-irc#T15-53-59
16:01:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Antoine to write Semantics tests with help of Sandro [4]
16:01:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/18-rdf-wg-irc#T15-58-12