19:01:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
19:01:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/17-aapi-irc
19:01:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
19:01:07 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
19:01:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
19:01:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start now
19:01:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
19:01:11 <trackbot> Date: 17 September 2013
19:02:41 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has now started
19:02:43 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
19:02:54 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:02:54 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
19:03:08 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:03:08 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:03:20 <clown> scribenick:  clown
19:03:38 <clown> chair:  Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:03:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/17-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:10:56 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:10:58 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
19:10:58 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:11:52 <cyns_> cyns_ has joined #aapi
19:11:58 <clown> agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Sep/0006.html
19:12:11 <clown> topic:  issue-612
19:12:17 <clown> issue-612?
19:12:18 <trackbot> issue-612 -- Review ia2/atk rule in group position. should this really determine level based on aria-owns chain. see uaig: http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria-implementation/#mapping_additional_position and test case 69: https://www.w3.org/wai/pf/testharness/testresults?tes -- open
19:12:18 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/612
19:12:41 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_additional_position
19:12:53 <clown> JS:  clause about treeitems and aria-level.
19:13:29 <clown> If aria-level is not provided or inherited for an element of role treeitem, user agents implementing IAccessible2 or ATK/AT-SPI MUST compute it by following the explicit or computed RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF relations.
19:14:36 <clown> test case the above:  https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/test?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=69&platform_id=5
19:14:46 <Zakim> +??P3
19:15:08 <clown> JS:  test case is just a flat list of divs.
19:15:34 <clown> JS:  but the tree and treeitems are built out of aria-owns.
19:15:46 <clown> CS:  I think we need to wait for David.
19:16:03 <clown> topic:  ACTION-1262
19:16:09 <clown> ACTION-1262?
19:16:09 <trackbot> ACTION-1262 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Update 4.1. focus states and events table to clarify differences between platforms and dom/desktop/at focus. http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria-implementation/#focus_state_event_table -- due 2013-09-23 -- OPEN
19:16:10 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1262
19:18:20 <clown> JS:  there is a confusion as to which focus event this table is speaking about.
19:19:13 <clown> JS:  can we clarify that sometimes its an a11y focus, sometimes DOM focus event, and sometimes a Windows focus event.
19:19:47 <clown> CS:  reluctant to re-open this, would need to discuss with someone on the IE team.
19:21:00 <clown> CS: this is the language that everyone can live with.
19:23:05 <clown> CS:  I don't think that FF does the events here differently from IE>
19:23:12 <clown> s/IE\>/IE.
19:23:41 <clown> topic:  ISSUE-616
19:23:47 <clown> ISSUE-616?
19:23:48 <trackbot> ISSUE-616 -- ISSUE: Review potentially at-risk statement "When the user triggers an element with a defined activation behavior in a manner other than clicking it, such as by pressing Enter, simulate a click on the element." -- open
19:23:48 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/616
19:24:22 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#keyboard-focus_tabindex
19:24:27 <clown> JS:  it is step 10.
19:24:51 <clown> JS:  one question, what is an activation behavior?
19:25:10 <clown> CS:  it's doDefaultAction in MSAA, or invoke in UIA
19:27:03 <clown> CS:  this is basically saying, if there is no default action on the just activated item, then simulate a click.
19:27:44 <clown> CS:  and "simulate a click" is not specifially a dom click or system click.  It's up to the browser to implement the click as they see fit.
19:28:12 <clown> CS:  IE is part of the OS, but for FF, it's an application on an OS.
19:28:41 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=2&testcase_id=31
19:28:55 <clown> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pfwg/raw-file/default/ARIA-UAIG/1.0/tests/test-files/test31.html
19:34:32 <clown> JS:  I think that I have enough to discsuss with the PF group on Mon's call.
19:34:49 <clown> JS:  If there is a doDefaultAction, do it, otherwise simulate a click.
19:35:34 <clown> CS:  and, we don't specifically say "doDefaultAction" in the UAIG because it's called something different in different browsers.
19:35:42 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/616
19:36:46 <clown> JS:  he wants to mark it at-risk.
19:36:49 <clown> CS:  I can live with that.
19:37:06 <clown> CS:  but I think that it probably works in IE.
19:37:28 <clown> JS: and, it might work in FF.
19:37:36 <clown> CS:  and even if it doesn't, this is how it should work.
19:38:04 <clown> CS:  and, we are trying to see if it's possible to implement this.
19:38:19 <clown> CS: sometimes you write the spec before the implementation.
19:39:57 <clown> topic:  ACTION-1255
19:40:02 <clown> action-1255?
19:40:02 <trackbot> action-1255 -- Cynthia Shelly to Look into toggle patterns and how that needs to be modified in the uaig. -- due 2013-09-17 -- OPEN
19:40:02 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1255
19:40:40 <clown> CS:  I still haven't done that.  I'll try to get to it this week.
19:41:00 <clown> CS:  push the due date ahead a week.
19:41:38 <clown> topic:  ACTION-1257
19:41:43 <clown> action-1257?
19:41:43 <trackbot> action-1257 -- Cynthia Shelly to Check the ie10 and ie11 to see how they map the treegrid role. -- due 2013-09-17 -- OPEN
19:41:43 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1257
19:41:59 <clown> CS:  not done yet either.
19:42:03 <clown> JS:  move it ahead a week?
19:42:19 <clown> CS:  yes.
19:43:07 <clown> topic:  ACTION-1198
19:43:12 <clown> action-1198?
19:43:12 <trackbot> action-1198 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Update non-default values for required attrs per role. e.g. checkbox and other checkable role default to aria-checked="false" rather than the attr default: undefined. -- due 2013-05-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:43:12 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1198
19:43:29 <clown> JS:  that's the wrong one.
19:43:46 <clown> topic:  ACTION-1256
19:43:49 <clown> action-1256?
19:43:49 <trackbot> action-1256 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify msaa+uia express entry for aria-checked on menuitemradio button to use msaa selectable state and selected proerty instead of uia togglepattern. -- due 2013-09-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:43:49 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1256
19:44:09 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_role_table
19:44:39 <clown> JS:  look at the entry for menuitemradio in role mapping table.
19:48:29 <clown> CS:  I think you should put the info about the selected states right in the aria-checked row for the UIA express column
19:48:37 <clown> JS:  can you type example text here?
19:49:17 <cyns_> under aria-checked and MSAA+UIA Express say: expose as system_state_checked.  For radiobutton and menuitemradiobutton, expose as system_state_selected
19:50:49 <clown> JS:  what about the Toggle Control Pattern?  That's what is there now.
19:51:16 <clown> CS: Keep that there, and replace special case sentence with ...
19:52:09 <clown> CS: There might be a Selection Control Pattern, and we may want to use that instead.
19:53:04 <clown> CS:  Let me look...
19:56:09 <cyns_> keep toggle pattern stuff.  replace second sentence with "for radio and menuitemradio expose as IsSelection property in SelectionItem Control Pattern."
19:56:22 <cyns_> true and false will be the same as for toggle
19:57:41 <clown> JS:  Okay.
19:59:05 <clown> JS:  toggle pattern has value 1, 0, and so on.
19:59:11 <clown> CS:  Just 1 and 0 here.
19:59:54 <clown> JS:  then remove the stuff on aria-selected?
20:00:08 <clown> CS:  yes.
20:00:24 <clown> JS:  and remove the special case text under the radio roles?
20:00:31 <clown> CS:  no, that's a good idea there.
20:00:54 <clown> CS:  just point them now to the aria-checked special cases.
20:01:53 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
20:01:56 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
20:02:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/17-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:03:23 <clown> zakim, please part
20:03:23 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Joseph_Scheuhammer, [Microsoft], Michael_Cooper
20:03:23 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:04:16 <clown> present+ Cynthia_Shelly
20:04:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/17-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:04:46 <clown> present- Microsoft
20:04:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/17-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:05:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/17-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:05:39 <clown> s/IE>/IE/
20:05:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/17-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:06:09 <clown> present- [Microsoft]
20:06:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/17-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:06:44 <clown> regrets+ David_Bolter
20:06:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/17-aapi-minutes.html clown
20:36:33 <clown> clown has joined #aapi
21:55:46 <MichaelC_> MichaelC_ has joined #aapi